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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Straight down the Middle of tru.

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Speaker 1: Try get inside the game from every end goal. It's

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Speaker 1: Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier powered by

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Speaker 1: News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by z in Safety, Black

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Speaker 3: Woods Shop, King g and you can score five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: Elliott Smith with me Liam Napier, Rugby Direct. Back for

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Speaker 3: our midweek check in nape sits the countdown to the

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Speaker 3: Super Rugby semi Finals.

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Speaker 2: Dare I say it?

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Speaker 3: Even though these are two New Zealand Derbies, it feels

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Speaker 3: like it's been a sort of low energy build up,

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Speaker 3: you know, you know, kick the Australians out, we're done

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Speaker 3: with them for a stuff for another season. But even

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Speaker 3: with the Derbies on the line. Maybe it's the Blue

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Speaker 3: from what I know, but it feels like it just

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Speaker 3: has not got the spice heading into Tomorrow night, Friday Night.

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Speaker 4: I think that's fair that one of these games will

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Speaker 4: be as highly unpredictable. It's got history, it's got heat,

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Speaker 4: it's got rivalry, it's got tension, and then the other

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Speaker 4: because of the Blues and the fact that I've lost

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Speaker 4: four on the trot and offered little resistance, it's impossible

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Speaker 4: to predict them going to Wellington and pulling off an upset.

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Speaker 4: So I think that's probably what you're referring to. Will

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Speaker 4: have one cracking game and everyone expects the other to

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Speaker 4: be a largely foregone conclusion. Maybe the Blues can conjure something,

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Speaker 4: but it's really difficult to envision that.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it.

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Speaker 3: It's really hard to see anything but the Hurricanes hosting

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Speaker 3: the final next week. Who joins them I think is

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Speaker 3: definitely up for debate. But look, doesn't seem like as

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Speaker 3: many ways for the Blues to make it into the playoffs.

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Speaker 3: That have to pull something out of the hat that

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Speaker 3: they have not shown for really the entire season. They

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Speaker 3: haven't reached great heights, but they've backpedaled a big time

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Speaker 3: in the last few weeks and been turning in some

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Speaker 3: really turgid stuff.

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Speaker 4: They have and look, they have some changes this week

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Speaker 4: with Zaran Sullivan outs Boden Barrack coming into fullback. They've

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Speaker 4: had to make a change with Malokai Rampling suspendeds Hoskins,

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Speaker 4: Stitutu comes in, but still no Dalton Papolli. They largely

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Speaker 4: feel like cosmetic changes. Maybe Barrett's, you know, there's a

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Speaker 4: bit of a fairy tale story for him going to

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Speaker 4: Wellington turning up the Hurricanes, but and look, his combination

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Speaker 4: with Stephen Peterefetter could add another attacking dimension to the Blues.

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Speaker 4: They haven't had Barrett for a couple of weeks and

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Speaker 4: when he has played it hasn't been a great season

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Speaker 4: for him. He had that one good performance against the Crusaders.

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Speaker 4: I think it was earlier in the year, but there

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Speaker 4: are big question marks about his form as well. So's

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Speaker 4: also lost Sam Knock at half back, with Finley Christie

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Speaker 4: coming in there. But they've just looked stale in recent weeks,

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Speaker 4: haven't they. They have ten to fifteen minutes of good

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Speaker 4: rugby and then they'll collapse. Their set piece, which was

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Speaker 4: a hallmark of Vern Cootter's coaching, has gone backwards in

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Speaker 4: a big way. The execution has been absent even when

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Speaker 4: they do get it right, and against the Hurricanes team

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Speaker 4: that scored the most tries in history in a single season,

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Speaker 4: they get Fenn and aw fall back, Like who's going

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Speaker 4: to predict the Blues Gan of Wellington.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's very very hard to predict that happening.

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Speaker 3: I think with verne ball as well, it hasn't really

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Speaker 3: evolved over the last couple of seasons. It did a

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Speaker 3: great job for them in twenty twenty four twenty five,

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Speaker 3: it sort of faded a little bit, then came back

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Speaker 3: strongly in the closing stages of the season and we're

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Speaker 3: maybe unlucky not to make a Super Rugby Final again.

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Speaker 3: But this season it feels like everyone's worked them out,

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Speaker 3: and also the fact that they've had a few injuries,

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Speaker 3: of courses every team does, but they haven't evolved their

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Speaker 3: game plan and what they were doing well. They're also

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Speaker 3: not doing very well anymore, so it hasn't it led

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Speaker 3: up to know what the Blues would have wanted, and

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Speaker 3: they're crying out I think for a bit of innovation,

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Speaker 3: and if we look at Jason Holland, who's on the

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Speaker 3: opposing side this weekend in the Hurricanes coaching box, that

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Speaker 3: could be well what he brings to the mix next year,

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Speaker 3: that innovation, that style of game plan that maybe the

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Speaker 3: Blues want to play with but have been sort of

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Speaker 3: restricted to playing veromball for the last couple of seasons.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, there's massive changes coming to the Blues and

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Speaker 4: you're right. I think Jason Hollands because he was largely

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Speaker 4: sidelined and the All Blacks is hugely underrated as an

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Speaker 4: attacking minds and you look what he's brought to the

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Speaker 4: Hurricanes this year alongside Clark Laidlaw. But that there are

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Speaker 4: massive changes coming to the Blues and the coaching department,

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Speaker 4: with Vern leaving taking Greig McGrath with him to the Reds,

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Speaker 4: I understand Greg Fieck is also on the way out.

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Speaker 4: And then from a playing perspective, Dalton popol Le hoskinstitute

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Speaker 4: to a j Lamb who's been a shining light I

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Speaker 4: think for the Blues this year on the wing and

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Speaker 4: in the midfield Stephen Peter Fetter. There could be others

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Speaker 4: like Xavier Taigli. There's suggestions that he might potentially leave

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Speaker 4: the club, but really yeah, which would be.

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Speaker 5: A big loss.

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Speaker 4: Overseas, whispers about maybe the Highlanders sniffing around him, but

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Speaker 4: he would be a big loss and they desperately need

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Speaker 4: some front rollers to come back as well. And there

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Speaker 4: was also suggestions about one of the Australian wingers.

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Speaker 3: Derbie Lancaster have been mooted potentially. I mean, we shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be really bringing in Australian wingers with all your respect.

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Speaker 4: No, definitely not No, you should be promoting from within

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Speaker 4: and developing talents.

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Speaker 3: I think if you can't find a winger from the

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Speaker 3: one A competition, then you're doing something wrong with the Blues.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look, there's a shortage, not a shortage, but you

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Speaker 4: look at what Warner Durn's brought from a locking perspective,

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Speaker 4: great signing, but wingers tend to grow on trees in

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Speaker 4: New Zealand. They emerge all the time and hit form.

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Speaker 4: It might only be for a short space of time,

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Speaker 4: but New Zealand's never really had an issue producing wingers.

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Speaker 4: I think in recent times we've seen their skill sets

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Speaker 4: probably be found out a little bit under the high ball,

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Speaker 4: but from a finishing, tri scoring involvement perspective, there's never

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Speaker 4: been an issue there. So look, maybe we're being too harsh,

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Speaker 4: jumping too soon to write off the Blues and you

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Speaker 4: know we're already casting a head to next year. They've

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Speaker 4: got this game, they will believe they can do it,

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Speaker 4: but just on the evidence of what obviously in the

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Speaker 4: past four weeks and also the fact that all those

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Speaker 4: losses have come and Kiwi Dourbi's.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well we're in evidence spaced podcast lem and

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Speaker 3: the evidence just isn't there to suggest that the Blues

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Speaker 3: are capable of winning. The evidence is there for the Hurricanes.

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Speaker 3: They're doing the tip five stuff really really well, which

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Speaker 3: they haven't always been able to do. Durns has been

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Speaker 3: a big part of that. But you'll also look at,

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Speaker 3: excuse me, the props that they've got at the moments,

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Speaker 3: you know, doing some really great carrying. They're good scrummages.

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Speaker 3: That hasn't always been the case for the Hurricanes, and

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Speaker 3: that's been their platform this year to get the outside

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Speaker 3: backs working and getting fine enough for Molby Harken the

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Speaker 3: kind of ball that they want. It hasn't always been

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Speaker 3: the case. They've always had the entertainers, but maybe not

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Speaker 3: the platform.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think depth is.

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Speaker 4: One factor that really sets you apart at this time

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Speaker 4: of year, and the Hurricanes are bringing one of the

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Speaker 4: world's best tight haird props off the bench, Entyroll Lomax,

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Speaker 4: and that's predominantly because he hasn't had the game time,

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Speaker 4: but passively o Tossi starts and then you can bring

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Speaker 4: Lomax off the bench. That's an absolute luxury and that

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Speaker 4: is largely true throughout their squad.

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Speaker 5: You're kinning the whole ol. Guy that's returned late in

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Speaker 5: the season.

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Speaker 4: Look like he hasn't missed the beat, scored some great

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Speaker 4: tries while he's relegated to the bench with on an

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Speaker 4: awful coming back. Cam Royguard and Reuben Love in phenomenal

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Speaker 4: touch both as a combination and individually, and yeah, the

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Speaker 4: Type five has been the massive difference. Also defensively, I

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Speaker 4: would like to think that the Blues will be a

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Speaker 4: much during a Test in the Brumbies.

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Speaker 1: That was.

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Speaker 4: A really poor endorsement for a finals match last week,

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Speaker 4: but the skill, the execution that the Hurricanes put out

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Speaker 4: in those conditions really did set the bar. And there

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Speaker 4: are familiar arities in terms of when you cast back

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Speaker 4: to twenty sixteen and the way the Hurricanes built a

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Speaker 4: squad that they did lose some players, but well I.

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Speaker 3: Did it without non Owen Smith that year, a year

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Speaker 3: after the World Cup, obviously getting very close against the

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Speaker 3: Highlanders the year before.

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Speaker 4: That's right, it was meant to be the year in

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Speaker 4: twenty fifteen, but there was the nucleus of that team

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Speaker 4: they did have. They finished top and they had that

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Speaker 4: run of matches at home. Interesting to see what sort

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Speaker 4: of turnout they get this week. It was die weather

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Speaker 4: in Wellington, wasn't it last week? And you can completely

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Speaker 4: understand people wanting to stay away. Maybe punters are saving

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Speaker 4: their money for a final. We've seen that in christ

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Speaker 4: Church in previous years as well.

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Speaker 2: As a risk though, isn't it.

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Speaker 5: But you don't want to get complacent.

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Speaker 3: No, you don't. We've talked a lot about this game.

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Speaker 3: We'll get onto the Chiefs Crusaders in the moment. But

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Speaker 3: what would I think area is the weaknesses and the

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Speaker 3: Hurricanes this year that the Blues could potentially exploit comes

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Speaker 3: Saturday night.

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Speaker 5: Not many.

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Speaker 4: I think the Hurricanes have been vulnerable at times when

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Speaker 4: you've kicked and kicked well to them, when you contest

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Speaker 4: in the air, and when you've got a guy like

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Speaker 4: Caleb Clark and Stephen Peterfetter and Bowden Bart, I think

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Speaker 4: can utilize the aerial game, the kicking game that has

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Speaker 4: been a little weakness and if you can frustrate the Hurricanes,

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Speaker 4: if you cannot give it to them all their own way,

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Speaker 4: make them, attack from deep, try and force some errors,

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Speaker 4: scoreboard pressure and a knockout match, maybe a few nerves creeping.

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Speaker 4: That's one avenue. But you look at in previous years,

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Speaker 4: it would be the set piece. You target their scrum,

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Speaker 4: their line out, maybe the breakdown, try and attack them

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Speaker 4: and what's been a traditional historical soft underbelly.

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Speaker 5: But that's not there. So do you see any other

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Speaker 5: vulnerable No.

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Speaker 3: But I think this is a big test for Ruben

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Speaker 3: Love and his hopes of wearing the All Blacks Tingdersey

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Speaker 3: and I firmly believe he's right in the mix of

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Speaker 3: being the food choice All Blacks ten this year. But

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Speaker 3: you have to keep winning these games, you have to

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Speaker 3: keep controlling these games, and if the Blues are able

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Speaker 3: to put him under a little bit of pressure, because

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Speaker 3: really the Hurricanes haven't felt that pressure too much with

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Speaker 3: him at ten this year. You think so that the

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Speaker 3: Derby games they obviously lost to the Chiefs and Hamilton

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Speaker 3: Crusader's got within seven, but they were always sort of

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Speaker 3: ahead of them in the second spell. Then he didn't

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Speaker 3: play the return game against the Crusaders, so he hasn't

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Speaker 3: been put under pressure. If the Blues can target him

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Speaker 3: put him under a bit of pressure, you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: delay the service that Broygard is getting too love. Then

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Speaker 3: potentially he can put him under a bit of heat.

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Speaker 3: But it's hard to see, you know, breakdown. Potentially in

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Speaker 3: previous years might have been an area where they could

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Speaker 3: win some penalties, get some turnovers and you know, just

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Speaker 3: get that scoreb pressure going Segna is a very good

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Speaker 3: exponent of that, but Dalton and Papaliti not being there

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Speaker 3: really hurts them. And a player like Duplesifi gave Way

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Speaker 3: a lot more penalties two three years ago than he

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Speaker 3: does these days as well, So it's hard to mountain

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Speaker 3: the argument I think for the Blues to go down

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Speaker 3: there and win.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and another factor is defensively. You think about where

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Speaker 4: the Hurricanes have been from an attacking perspective, Well, the

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Speaker 4: Blues have conceded I think over forty seven points on

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Speaker 4: average in those past four losses. That's a shitload of

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Speaker 4: points for a professional rugby team. So that paint's a

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Speaker 4: really stark picture of weather being Defensively, both just individual tackles, attitudes.

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Speaker 4: So on that basis alone, the Hurricanes have beaten them

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Speaker 4: twice this year. They put up forty seven points at

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Speaker 4: in Part forty two and Wellington.

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Speaker 5: So I have.

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Speaker 4: Fares for the Blues about if it doesn't go right,

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Speaker 4: it could go really wrong.

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Speaker 3: We'll get into tipping shortly, so just hold fire on

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Speaker 3: that one if you possibly could. The first game, of

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Speaker 3: course of the weekend Chiefs Crusaders in Hamilton seven five

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Speaker 3: on Friday night. To me, this is a coin flip game.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the Chiefs narrowly head because of home advantage, but

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Speaker 3: the Chiefs have lost twice to the Crusaders this year,

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Speaker 3: once in Hamilton when the Crusaders mounted that big comeback,

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Speaker 3: once in christ Church.

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Speaker 2: Last year.

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Speaker 3: The Chiefs beat the Crusaders twice in the regular season,

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Speaker 3: lost to them in the final. Maybe there's a mirror

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Speaker 3: sort of image coming this year with the Chiefs maybe

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Speaker 3: doing it in the semi final. But to me, there

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Speaker 3: is not much in this game at all. I think

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Speaker 3: it's really really close. Where do you think it will

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Speaker 3: be won and lost?

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Speaker 5: It's fascinating, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: I think this is the greatest rivalry in super rugby

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Speaker 4: currently and that goes as far back as the Dave

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Speaker 4: Renny era I think, and then it's been enhanced significantly

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Speaker 4: in recent times. I think they've contested four of the

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Speaker 4: past final five finals, the Crusaders winning all of those

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Speaker 4: unfortunately great and they have had the wood on them.

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Speaker 4: As you say, I think they've won the last three

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Speaker 4: straight against the Chiefs as well. Telling lye for me,

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Speaker 4: Damian McKenzie didn't play either of the games against the

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Speaker 4: Crusaders this year, so I think he could be the

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Speaker 4: most influential player on the park. I think he really

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Speaker 4: stepped up last week against the Reds. He's starting to

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Speaker 4: find form at the right time. There's just big matchups

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Speaker 4: all over the park, isn't there. Christian Leo Ware is

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Speaker 4: in career best form and there's no Wallace to Tsi

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Speaker 4: for the Chiefs, but they've still got an all Blacks

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Speaker 4: loose Ford trio David Hevili against Quinta Pyra in the midfield.

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Speaker 4: Absolute mouthwatering match up there. I think the Chiefs when

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Speaker 4: I think back to that game in Christchurch and the

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Speaker 4: Crusaders come back in the game of the year for me,

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Speaker 4: the Chiefs largely won the battle upfront and I think

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Speaker 4: that's where they'll come for the Crusaders, who get Fletch

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Speaker 4: newelback big in there. But the chief strength this year,

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Speaker 4: particularly under John O. Gibbs, has been their pack, their

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Speaker 4: ball carrying, when they get on the front foots, when

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Speaker 4: they get their all going and provide the platform for

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Speaker 4: SUMMERSONI takeya who to score off the back of that.

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Speaker 4: They're incredibly difficult to stop. So I think they'll largely

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Speaker 4: go to that and then look to McKenzie to pull

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Speaker 4: the strings.

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Speaker 5: They've got.

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Speaker 4: Lee Roy Carter back on the bench for a false

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Speaker 4: start last week, so but I think the Chief's bench

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Speaker 4: is stronger. So I am leaning towards the Chiefs, but

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Speaker 4: the Crusaders have had their number in recent times. So

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Speaker 4: as you say, it is a real corn flip.

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Speaker 3: It is, and what the Crusaders have done well, I

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Speaker 3: think in previous finals. If I think back to last

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Speaker 3: year and a couple of other occasions that they've met

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Speaker 3: in the Big Dance, they've put Damien McKenzie under a

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Speaker 3: lot of pressure and you mentioned obviously didn't play either

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Speaker 3: of those games. But what they have been able to

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Speaker 3: do is find a way to shut them down in

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Speaker 3: those big occasions. I think back to Hamilton and twenty

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Speaker 3: three where they were able to just smother them every

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Speaker 3: time he got the ball. He had a couple of

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Speaker 3: big moments in that game, but because it is a

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Speaker 3: quality player, but they were able to show them down.

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Speaker 3: So if they can do that then they go a

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Speaker 3: long way to winning the line out. I would have

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Speaker 3: worries about the Crusaders even when they've been winning in

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Speaker 3: recent weeks. It's been wobbly.

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Speaker 4: Quite good on opposition ball. Jamie Hannah steals a lot

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Speaker 4: of pill but yeah, it has been.

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Speaker 3: On own ball it's been a little ropeie, a lot

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Speaker 3: of balls just going to the wrong place and various

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Speaker 3: other misfires. So they really do need to get that

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Speaker 3: sorted begin for them though, Fletcher Newle at tighthead for

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Speaker 3: them this week missed the game against the Blues MCL

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Speaker 3: Fortunately we know fearing the worst potentially for Fletcher New

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Speaker 3: when he came off against the Hurricanes. Was it in

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Speaker 3: the final round to have him back out there, you

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Speaker 3: know a week or so a couple of weeks later.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a big in for the Crusaders. And

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Speaker 3: he's mentioned this week that you know, obviously they've got

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Speaker 3: a dry track in christ Church now you can't quite

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Speaker 3: get the way on and the Ford momentum at scrum

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Speaker 3: times so he's relishing perhaps the prospective of playing in

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Speaker 3: a bit of dew under foot in Hamilton because it's

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Speaker 3: been what the Crusaders have done really well at Apollo

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Speaker 3: Project Stadium in the last few years.

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Speaker 4: Aside from there, I think the Crusades have shown a

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Speaker 4: lot of character in the back end of the season

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Speaker 4: to overcome injuries. You know, will Jordan Fletcher newle No

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Speaker 4: Scott Barrett, Well.

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Speaker 2: We were talking about did you draw a line through

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Speaker 2: them after the Australian.

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Speaker 4: Tour said they can't win the title. They probably should

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Speaker 4: make the playoffs, but they're not going to win the title.

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Speaker 3: They needed you think, they said they need to win

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Speaker 3: two of the three against New Zealand teams in the World

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Speaker 3: three and they built some momentum. And it's a funny

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Speaker 3: thing at this point of the year that when Crusaders

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Speaker 3: teams get to this point of the season, they tend

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Speaker 3: to roll up the sleeves. They know their way to

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Speaker 3: the full time whist, they know the way to be

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Speaker 3: in front of the full time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're not going to have a lot of fair

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Speaker 4: going to Hamilton because they've been there. They've done that

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Speaker 4: a lot of those players and I think this year

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Speaker 4: that they have really adapted their game under the roof,

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Speaker 4: they played a lot more rugby, but going to Hamilton

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Speaker 4: on a cold, dewey Friday night, it will be reverting

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Speaker 4: to their traditional strengths. I think that the squeeze tactics

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Speaker 4: at the set piece, the kicking game is Kimura set

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Speaker 4: up to execute that as well as rivers Rahan who's

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Speaker 4: on the bench. Interesting dynamic there. So I think the

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Speaker 4: Crusaders there won't be a lot of secrets about how

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Speaker 4: they play. I just man for man on paper. I

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Speaker 4: think the Chiefs have the strongest squad, but this is

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Speaker 4: finals footy, isn't it, And the Crusaders have have had

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Speaker 4: the wood on the Chiefs. But I think this might

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Speaker 4: be where their revival and defense of the title ends.

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Speaker 3: Earlier Okay, okay, that's right. Johnny mcnicho has been very

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Speaker 3: good for the Crusaders at the back as well. Will

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Speaker 3: Jordan being out he stepped up in recent weeks, didn't

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Speaker 3: I mean, with this with the greatest respect, didn't think

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Speaker 3: he had it in them to be the kind of

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Speaker 3: player that they needed him to be, especially under the roof,

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Speaker 3: and play the kind of line running that he has

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Speaker 3: been doing. He's been very, very good, but another big

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Speaker 3: performance required this weekend, especially as you mentioned the kick returns,

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Speaker 3: everything like that, that he's going to be asked of.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's going to have some speed coming at him.

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Speaker 4: When you look at McKenzie. Isaac Hutchinson's been a real

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Speaker 4: revelation for the Chiefs. And then you bring on lee

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Speaker 4: Ry Carter off the bench, there's going to be some diminutive, speedy,

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Speaker 4: rapid men coming at him. So defensively it'll be tested.

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Speaker 4: But David Heavily is has been the Crusaders talesman in

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Speaker 4: the back end of this year, hasn't he really stepped

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Speaker 4: up with fifty twenty two's there was a dummy and

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Speaker 4: go against the Blues last week, really leading from the front.

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Speaker 4: So if the Crusaders are going to get it done,

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Speaker 4: they need him to step up in a big way.

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Speaker 4: And it was that moment of madness from Chiefs prop

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Speaker 4: Jared Prophet flipping David Heavily on his head in that

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Speaker 4: round two match that sparked the Crusaders come back.

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Speaker 5: I think were they score twenty eight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they were done twenty one or something with them.

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Speaker 4: Something like thirty unanswered points after that moment, So the

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Speaker 4: Crusaders one have forgotten about that either.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, right, lock it in for tipping. You lead

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Speaker 3: by six fifty six fifty, so congratulations, you've won the

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Speaker 3: comp We were doing triple points for the last couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, double or another.

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Speaker 2: Yeah sure, sure sure. What are you going to go?

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Speaker 5: Chiefs Crusaders, Chiefs Canes Final, Chiefs KS Final.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to Crusaders Knes Final. There we go, shock, shock, exactly,

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Speaker 3: but not with a lot of conviction. I do think

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Speaker 3: that is going to be a coin flip game, and

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Speaker 3: I hope it is a quarter game and maybe you know,

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Speaker 3: a moment of brilliance on either side decides it. I

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Speaker 3: think it will be close. I hope it's close, So

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Speaker 3: I hope it's a game befitting of you know, a

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Speaker 3: Super Rugby semifinal.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Angus Gardner's got the whistle for the other one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, which I think your two top officials handling

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Speaker 4: those encounters, which is good for the game as well.

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Speaker 4: You want the players to determine it you do.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, right there, it'll do us for Rugby Direct. We'll

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Speaker 3: catch you back on Monday. We'll have our Super Rugby

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Speaker 3: finalists can't Wait see an ex Time on Rugby director.

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Speaker 3: Thanks to Mark Kelly for producing and we are powered

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Speaker 3: score five thousand.

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