1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,547 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,027 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZB. 3 00:00:12,667 --> 00:00:14,867 Speaker 2: One, Game sixty Test, former All Black and host on 4 00:00:14,867 --> 00:00:17,067 Speaker 2: The Breakdown on Sky Sport, Jeff Wilson. Jeff, thanks for 5 00:00:17,107 --> 00:00:19,627 Speaker 2: taking the time a bit of breathing room since this 6 00:00:19,747 --> 00:00:21,907 Speaker 2: news dropped. Were you surprised though when you heard the 7 00:00:21,907 --> 00:00:22,907 Speaker 2: news on Thursday? 8 00:00:23,307 --> 00:00:25,867 Speaker 3: Look, clearly a lot of work had been done behind 9 00:00:25,907 --> 00:00:27,387 Speaker 3: the scenes by New Zealand Rake me in terms of 10 00:00:27,467 --> 00:00:30,467 Speaker 3: gathering information, I was, well, I'm truly aware a thorough 11 00:00:30,587 --> 00:00:33,987 Speaker 3: review was going on, and with the rumblings that we'd 12 00:00:34,027 --> 00:00:37,147 Speaker 3: heard late last year, I think I actually wasn't that 13 00:00:37,307 --> 00:00:40,827 Speaker 3: surprised that David Kirk and the board ended up coming 14 00:00:40,827 --> 00:00:42,707 Speaker 3: to this decision. And that's not a base of the 15 00:00:42,707 --> 00:00:46,427 Speaker 3: information and what I had seen. It's just the fact 16 00:00:46,467 --> 00:00:50,307 Speaker 3: you just know sometimes when the smoke was fired, and 17 00:00:50,347 --> 00:00:52,227 Speaker 3: there was clearly that in this case, and it was 18 00:00:52,747 --> 00:00:55,067 Speaker 3: a simple situation and whether or not they felt they 19 00:00:55,107 --> 00:00:57,907 Speaker 3: could turn it around in a short period of time 20 00:00:58,067 --> 00:01:02,307 Speaker 3: before an important order South Africa in an upcoming ruggy 21 00:01:02,307 --> 00:01:04,907 Speaker 3: World Cup, and this is to me that they need 22 00:01:04,907 --> 00:01:06,387 Speaker 3: to change and they've got it. 23 00:01:06,787 --> 00:01:08,107 Speaker 2: So this is the right call. 24 00:01:08,267 --> 00:01:11,867 Speaker 3: In your view, I think absolutely. I think there's some 25 00:01:11,907 --> 00:01:14,827 Speaker 3: things that I know Scott Robinson, you know, he deserves 26 00:01:14,827 --> 00:01:16,987 Speaker 3: a lot of credit for in regards to the fact 27 00:01:16,987 --> 00:01:18,387 Speaker 3: there were a lot of challenges along the way. There 28 00:01:18,387 --> 00:01:21,827 Speaker 3: always are as all black coaches, but this last couple 29 00:01:21,827 --> 00:01:25,987 Speaker 3: of years, this team really never gained any momentum. There 30 00:01:26,027 --> 00:01:29,627 Speaker 3: was always performance which performances which gave you doubt about 31 00:01:29,627 --> 00:01:31,627 Speaker 3: the direction of the team we're heading. And you know, 32 00:01:31,987 --> 00:01:36,027 Speaker 3: there was certainly uncertainty in the group. They looked unsettled. 33 00:01:36,587 --> 00:01:38,547 Speaker 3: They didn't play with a great deal of confidence on 34 00:01:38,587 --> 00:01:43,067 Speaker 3: a consistent basis. So unfortunately a lot of that responsibility 35 00:01:43,147 --> 00:01:45,587 Speaker 3: falls on the head coach. And you know, he's not 36 00:01:45,627 --> 00:01:47,267 Speaker 3: a bad rugby coach. I've said that in the last 37 00:01:47,267 --> 00:01:49,747 Speaker 3: couple of days. It just hasn't worked out with this 38 00:01:49,787 --> 00:01:52,667 Speaker 3: group of people and this team of players, and it 39 00:01:52,707 --> 00:01:55,827 Speaker 3: was time to look forward and look forward with somebody else. 40 00:01:56,307 --> 00:01:59,947 Speaker 2: What effect, Jeff, will this coaching change when it does happen, 41 00:01:59,987 --> 00:02:02,107 Speaker 2: and we'll talk about who might take the job shortly, 42 00:02:02,147 --> 00:02:05,507 Speaker 2: What effect will a coaching change have on the playing group. 43 00:02:06,587 --> 00:02:09,027 Speaker 3: It's really interesting because clarity has been a word that's 44 00:02:09,027 --> 00:02:11,707 Speaker 3: been used a lot over the last couple of years 45 00:02:11,747 --> 00:02:14,347 Speaker 3: and since this decision has been made about the fact 46 00:02:14,347 --> 00:02:16,907 Speaker 3: that clearly this is an issue inside the group. They 47 00:02:16,907 --> 00:02:19,507 Speaker 3: weren't really clear on the direction that they were going 48 00:02:19,547 --> 00:02:22,547 Speaker 3: as a team on and off the field. And you know, 49 00:02:22,587 --> 00:02:25,627 Speaker 3: that probably comes down to you need really clear and 50 00:02:25,707 --> 00:02:28,427 Speaker 3: accurate communication, and it starts with your head coach, and 51 00:02:28,467 --> 00:02:30,987 Speaker 3: all the great head coaches have had that, that ability 52 00:02:31,187 --> 00:02:34,067 Speaker 3: to communicate and connect people. And there's no doubt he 53 00:02:34,107 --> 00:02:37,147 Speaker 3: had a deep care. He talked about care a lot 54 00:02:37,187 --> 00:02:39,547 Speaker 3: Scott Robinson for this team and the All Blacks, and 55 00:02:40,347 --> 00:02:43,147 Speaker 3: I think, respectfully, you know, it appears as that he 56 00:02:43,267 --> 00:02:46,427 Speaker 3: just never was able to connect this group, to get 57 00:02:46,467 --> 00:02:49,547 Speaker 3: them all heading into one direction. So for me, communication 58 00:02:49,747 --> 00:02:53,027 Speaker 3: is absolutely critical. The other part of that combinement is 59 00:02:53,067 --> 00:02:55,827 Speaker 3: clear leadership, and we've now got that, and someone would 60 00:02:55,907 --> 00:02:58,907 Speaker 3: like David Kirk who's taken over, I've been really impressed 61 00:02:59,867 --> 00:03:02,667 Speaker 3: about how they've made this decision, the steps they've taken 62 00:03:02,707 --> 00:03:06,187 Speaker 3: to get the information, and to have former All Blacks 63 00:03:06,187 --> 00:03:09,627 Speaker 3: with great experience doing and being part of a review 64 00:03:10,507 --> 00:03:13,467 Speaker 3: who have driven and understand what a winning culture should 65 00:03:13,507 --> 00:03:18,747 Speaker 3: and look should look like. I'm really satisfied that we'll 66 00:03:18,787 --> 00:03:21,267 Speaker 3: now get the right person who can take this team forward. 67 00:03:21,507 --> 00:03:25,747 Speaker 2: On your point about communication and players needing clarity, can 68 00:03:25,787 --> 00:03:28,907 Speaker 2: there sometimes be and I'm not suggesting that was necessarily 69 00:03:28,907 --> 00:03:31,027 Speaker 2: the case there, but can there sometimes be too many 70 00:03:31,547 --> 00:03:33,067 Speaker 2: voices and players. 71 00:03:32,867 --> 00:03:36,547 Speaker 3: Is Yeah, there's no doubt that can be a case. 72 00:03:37,347 --> 00:03:40,187 Speaker 3: But I think you know nowadays and I think this 73 00:03:40,227 --> 00:03:43,387 Speaker 3: is clearly how the support has changed. And players have 74 00:03:43,427 --> 00:03:46,467 Speaker 3: a lot of influence, and as they should because they're 75 00:03:46,507 --> 00:03:49,547 Speaker 3: actually the people out there having to deliver on the 76 00:03:49,547 --> 00:03:51,987 Speaker 3: stage and you have to take them a lot for 77 00:03:52,107 --> 00:03:54,467 Speaker 3: the right You have to have them see the vision 78 00:03:54,507 --> 00:03:56,747 Speaker 3: and believe in the vision, but also you have to 79 00:03:56,747 --> 00:03:59,027 Speaker 3: give them a voice, and it just feels as though 80 00:03:59,067 --> 00:04:02,107 Speaker 3: that was just a little bit fractured. But also you know, 81 00:04:02,267 --> 00:04:05,547 Speaker 3: as a collective, whether it be the management, a coaching staff, 82 00:04:05,707 --> 00:04:07,907 Speaker 3: all of the player as you know, I think New 83 00:04:07,987 --> 00:04:10,467 Speaker 3: Zealand Rapy went down a path for me that I 84 00:04:10,467 --> 00:04:13,507 Speaker 3: think lost a little bit of its balance as they 85 00:04:13,547 --> 00:04:16,347 Speaker 3: were trying to go into a new world rather than 86 00:04:16,867 --> 00:04:19,107 Speaker 3: leaning on some of the great successes in the past 87 00:04:19,107 --> 00:04:21,747 Speaker 3: that we've had in recent years and getting the balance right. 88 00:04:21,787 --> 00:04:24,747 Speaker 3: As that transition sort of happened through I think they 89 00:04:24,787 --> 00:04:27,227 Speaker 3: just went a little bit too far and they lost 90 00:04:27,227 --> 00:04:32,107 Speaker 3: that in regards to keeping that player coach management relationship strong. 91 00:04:32,987 --> 00:04:36,747 Speaker 2: Is Jamie Joseph the most obvious successor for Scott Robertson. 92 00:04:38,667 --> 00:04:40,707 Speaker 3: I think he is for a number of reasons, and 93 00:04:41,107 --> 00:04:45,067 Speaker 3: hopefully they can get to that conclusion quickly because there's 94 00:04:45,107 --> 00:04:46,667 Speaker 3: a lot of pressure that's going to be on this 95 00:04:46,747 --> 00:04:49,187 Speaker 3: season and there'll be a lot of organization that needs 96 00:04:49,227 --> 00:04:51,987 Speaker 3: to be done. But there are I think very few 97 00:04:52,067 --> 00:04:55,987 Speaker 3: candidates who are in a position immediately to take the job, 98 00:04:56,107 --> 00:04:58,787 Speaker 3: and also who are qualified to take the job. And 99 00:04:59,267 --> 00:05:02,267 Speaker 3: I think Jamie's record as an inter national coach and 100 00:05:02,387 --> 00:05:04,907 Speaker 3: experience as a coach and understanding New Zealand rugby and 101 00:05:04,947 --> 00:05:08,187 Speaker 3: the international game, if he's able to get the team 102 00:05:08,267 --> 00:05:11,147 Speaker 3: of people, and I emphasize this, the team that he wants, 103 00:05:11,187 --> 00:05:13,427 Speaker 3: the coaches that he wants, the coaches he believes in, 104 00:05:13,707 --> 00:05:16,067 Speaker 3: and that may include some of the current coaches. I 105 00:05:16,107 --> 00:05:18,587 Speaker 3: don't know that, but I think that's the important part 106 00:05:18,627 --> 00:05:21,627 Speaker 3: for me, is that if Jamie's able to put together 107 00:05:21,667 --> 00:05:23,907 Speaker 3: a team of people, and you know, there are maybe 108 00:05:23,947 --> 00:05:26,547 Speaker 3: other people who come into the conversation, but now I 109 00:05:26,587 --> 00:05:28,987 Speaker 3: know Joe Schmitt's committed to Australia until the middle of 110 00:05:29,027 --> 00:05:32,907 Speaker 3: the year. Other coaches around the world are committed contractually. 111 00:05:33,427 --> 00:05:35,747 Speaker 3: Where does Tony Brown set right now? But for me 112 00:05:35,827 --> 00:05:38,667 Speaker 3: the logical choice and I think a great choice. The 113 00:05:38,707 --> 00:05:41,147 Speaker 3: guy who went head to head with Scott Robinson and 114 00:05:41,187 --> 00:05:44,107 Speaker 3: my understanding got close last time. Jamie Joseph is the 115 00:05:44,107 --> 00:05:44,907 Speaker 3: obvious man. 116 00:05:44,787 --> 00:05:46,307 Speaker 2: All right. We'd wait to see what happens there. Just 117 00:05:46,347 --> 00:05:49,667 Speaker 2: to finish you, what do you predict for Scott Robertson now? 118 00:05:50,787 --> 00:05:54,107 Speaker 3: Oh, look, he's at Harry Cook rugby coach. There'll be 119 00:05:54,147 --> 00:05:57,667 Speaker 3: opportunities around the world for him, whether it's as a 120 00:05:57,707 --> 00:06:01,587 Speaker 3: head coach and at another club at an international level. 121 00:06:02,947 --> 00:06:06,147 Speaker 3: He'll find his place. I hope he does. I'm sure 122 00:06:06,187 --> 00:06:09,227 Speaker 3: he will, and you know he'll go on to have 123 00:06:09,667 --> 00:06:12,507 Speaker 3: a very successful one coaching rugby career, which is hit 124 00:06:12,587 --> 00:06:15,307 Speaker 3: to date already. Like you say, let's take this last 125 00:06:15,347 --> 00:06:17,547 Speaker 3: couple of years in isolation. In fact, it just hasn't 126 00:06:17,587 --> 00:06:19,987 Speaker 3: worked out for him and there'll be other opportunities. 127 00:06:20,227 --> 00:06:22,587 Speaker 2: Thanks for your insight as always, Jeff, always great catching up, 128 00:06:22,747 --> 00:06:25,107 Speaker 2: always a pleasure, thanks mate. That As Jeff Wilson, former 129 00:06:25,307 --> 00:06:26,987 Speaker 2: or Black of course and host on the Breakdown on 130 00:06:27,227 --> 00:06:28,227 Speaker 2: Sky Sports. 131 00:06:28,827 --> 00:06:32,027 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 132 00:06:32,107 --> 00:06:35,387 Speaker 1: to News Talk sed B weekends from midday, or follow 133 00:06:35,467 --> 00:06:37,067 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio