WEBVTT - ‘Democracy under assault’: How Trump’s ICE crackdown is sparking nationwide unrest 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:05.480 Kyota. 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.440 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.760 daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:17.400 If you've turned on any. 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.479 American news channel in the last week, you would have 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:24.720 seen water wall coverage of protests spreading across the country. 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.040 It all started in Los Angeles, where clashes between police 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:32.519 and protesters were exacerbated by Donald Trump bypassing Governor Gavin 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.680 Newsom and sending National Guard and Marine troops to the city. 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:38.800 La Mayor Karen Bass has. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.880 Blamed the protests on Trump's immigration raids, which she said 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.640 provoked residents by causing fear and panic. Meanwhile, Trump has 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:51.440 compared protesters to a foreign invasion and said troops will 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.520 liberate Los Angeles. With the protests now being picked up 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.840 in other major cities, how wide spread could this get 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.200 and how much of this is a test case for 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.800 what will happen in the rest of Trump's term. Today 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.759 on the Front Page, nine News, US correspondent Jonathan Kurzley 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.800 is with us from Los Angeles to explain what's happening 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:19.000 on the ground. First off, can you tell me how 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.080 these protests started. 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.800 Yeah, these protests started almost a week ago. It was 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.480 essentially following raids that had been carried out by Immigrations 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.040 and Customs Enforcement officials in Los Angeles. Similar raids had 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:36.640 been done in Chicago, previously wooded by the Trump administration. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.399 They say to targets illegal immigrants who have committed violent 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.880 crimes and to deport them. Los Angeles has a huge 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:48.680 migrant community and a very large Hispanic and Mexican population. 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.640 There have been concerns amongst some people, even though they 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.560 say they are legitimate citizens, that they fear they could 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.080 be deported, or that they're family members who may be 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:03.200 undocumented may be deported by the Trump administration. There was 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.720 anger on the streets on Friday, and in the days 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.959 that followed that anger erupted and it's spread like wildfire 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:12.400 across the country. 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.760 Yes, so tell me about this ICE situation, perhaps for 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:17.920 some Kiwis who don't know what that is. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:22.320 ICE is essentially the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency. It is, 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:27.240 if you like, the agency that goes and looks after 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.880 trying to find illegal immigrants or trying to find issues 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.200 with customs breaches, and then enforcing those measures. 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.040 Now they've been enforced much more. 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:40.480 Forcefully under the administration of President Trump than perhaps many 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.400 experts say previous administration. Donald Trump has made no bones 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.119 about what it is he wants to do with migration. 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.959 He's claimed America has had an open border, it's had 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.280 migration problems. He's pointed to cases where illegal immigrants have 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:59.080 killed people, have harmed people, have maimed people, and spoken 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.400 with family members who say that their loved ones would 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:04.440 not have been in such a position had it not 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:09.080 been for an attack by an illegal immigrant. Many of 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.919 the migrant community, particularly here in Los Angeles, though, feel 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.840 that that is a slur against them. And I'm talking 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.680 about proper migrants here, documented migrants who are here in 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.880 this country properly, but just so happened to be of 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.040 a Mexican background, or a Colombian background, or any particular 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.120 foreign background that is not American. They feel that this 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.400 is an attack on them and their community and their 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.440 family members. And it's been well known for a long 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.240 period of time that there are large numbers of undocumented 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.040 migrants in the Los Angeles and California area. 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.600 The economy for years has relied on. 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.360 These workers to be part of this industry and to 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.520 be part of the employment sector. And right now that 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.400 they all feel as though they are under attack. So 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.000 the ICE Agency is the one in charge of carrying 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.520 out the wishes of the administration when it comes to 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.120 border measures and immigration issues. 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:02.080 Essentially, they are. 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.840 In country to carry out roads on people who they 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:06.560 want to get out of the country. 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.880 Well, the chaos here in downtown Los Angeles continues tonight. 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.320 I got to say, doesn't feel like the ala we 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.960 all know and are familiar with. This feels like some 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.200 sort of Third world conflicts. I mean, we have fires 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:25.800 burning in the middle of intersections. We have police and 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.480 law enforcement agencies under constant attack by these protest as 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:30.200 they have had. 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:31.279 Rocks hurled through the winter. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:38.240 They are firing fireworks directly at offices who are backed off. 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:39.000 Of it, I've got to say. 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.880 And as the knight has worn on, the number of 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:45.880 protesters certainly has dwindled, But they are the ones left 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.680 are the real anarchists, the ones who are intent on 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:50.239 causing the most damaged. 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.719 What's it like there on the ground in Los Angeles. 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.760 We're recording this on Thursday afternoon, New Zealand time. 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.000 What have you sai as I talk to you, this 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:02.719 is now Wednesday evening, Los Angeles time. 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.800 It is day six of these protests. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.320 Today, we've seen the protests dwindle in size. We are 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.839 approaching the time of the curfew that has been set 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:13.920 for eight pm local time. 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:15.000 That is a curfew. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.560 Have read about a couple of square kilometers of downtown 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.599 Los Angeles, in the area that is normally thriving with people. 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:23.560 It is largely a business district, and most of the 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.240 protesters have been targeting federal buildings or court buildings or 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.920 the headquarters of the Los Angeles Police Department that are 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.120 also down there as well. But it has been much 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.680 quieter today than we've seen in previous days. We as 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.560 I mentioned it started Friday, things picked up over Saturday, 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.600 particularly into Sunday and Monday, and. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:42.760 Then Tuesday and Wednesday. 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.680 Here things have really started to die down a little bit. 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.400 Maybe there is a sense that we are getting to 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.320 the end of this cycle of protests. 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:55.240 But you look at New York, you look at Dallas. 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:59.000 You look at Atlanta, in Georgia, Boston, Chicago, there have 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.400 been spotfires, protests. 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:02.599 Flare up right across this country. 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.560 So even though Los Angeles may be calming, it may 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.160 start to get a little bit noisier in other cities. 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.560 So you have to remember here too, Donald Trump has 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.719 effectively mobilized seven hundred Marines. The idea that you would 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.920 use the US Marines an arm of the US military, 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:24.200 against his own citizens is an extraordinary move. He's also 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.760 moved to mobilize thousands of National Guard to do a 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.520 move where he's effectively overruling and overriding a state governor 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:34.680 here in the United States, which has been done since 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.200 nineteen sixty five. There is an extraordinary amount of power 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.520 being thrown at this to try and quell what today 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.960 looks like to be just maybe a couple of hundred 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.039 protesters on the streets. You do hope, though, that the 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:52.120 violence calms down, that people who want to discuss these 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.159 issues can get around a table and discuss them, because 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.800 it's been pretty frightening scenes on the streets of Los 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.760 Angeles over the course of the last week or so. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.240 Yeah, and you've spoken to people on the ground. I mean, 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.760 what's a story from someone that you've spoken to that 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:05.680 sticks out to you. 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.920 We've spoken to people who have had their father deported 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.720 that they are protesting for their own father's sake. We've 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:18.600 spoken to people who are concerned about their neighbors being deported. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:22.000 It is a real sense of community spirit among those 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.840 who are down there legitimately trying to plead their case. 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.360 There is certainly a sign that there are trouble makers 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.480 in amongst the mix. And you did when I've been 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.440 out there, you tend to see the same groups of 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.080 people moving around bit by bit. 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.880 But those who are passionate about. 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.680 This issue on a personal level and who it impacts 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.240 really are just trying to drive the point home that 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:53.160 these fathers, they are sons, they are people who are 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:58.360 not criminals being targeted, they say, and they are trying 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.120 to get a message across the Amrea people that what 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.120 is taking place is not right, is not fair, and 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:09.000 is not just. So it is certainly for these people 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:13.440 it is emotional, it is deeply heartbreaking. But then you 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.560 combine that with those who are seeking to carry out 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:21.040 these protests because they want to clash with police, it 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:25.200 damages the movement of the protesters as a whole. Those 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:29.440 who are merely demonstrating about their own families, plant their 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.200 own communities light and trying to get the message across 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.280 to the Trump administration that things need to calm down. 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.120 You take a look at what happened in San Diego. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.400 There's so many different places where we let it burn. 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.160 We want to be politically correct, We wanted to be nice. 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.040 We want to be nice to the criminal, and what 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.320 you're doing is destroying the fabric of our life in 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.679 this country. Now, we did the right thing. 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:57.600 We've been given credit for by. 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.120 People that I would least suspect. I would say that 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.439 some of the people that came in and said thank goodness, 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:08.640 they said some of them thank god that Trump got involved. 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.320 And I'm very happy I got involved. And I think Gavin, 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:14.880 in his own way, is probably happy I got involved. 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:21.480 So Trump's defended his decision to send in the troops, 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.320 saying it was to prevent the city being conquered by 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.520 a foreign enemy. What are people saying about the use 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.280 of the military there. 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.320 Here in Los Angeles across California. It's fury. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.080 It's a fear that their streets are being militarized, that 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.320 they are having their own army used against them, that 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.640 the National Guard is being brought in when it's not needed. 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.079 The LAPD, the police department in. 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.920 Los Angeles, had said for the first couple of days 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.000 they believed that they could control the situation. 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:50.920 By about night. 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.320 Three, they started to move their positions, say hey, look, 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:56.160 maybe the National Guard could be brought in. We've seen 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.679 Republican governors, that is, governors of Donald Trump's party and 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:03.160 others dates bring in the National Guard. Normally it is 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.600 the responsibility of a state governor to say, okay, now 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.679 it is time for the National Guard. And they are 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.520 essentially troops who come in in the event of emergencies 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:16.040 or natural disasters and help either clean up, restore peace, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.400 and make areas a little bit safer. 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.199 So they can be everything from road closures to. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:26.520 As I've seen, standing outside federal immigration facilities with armed weapons. 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.079 So look, there is a real sense of anger about 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.000 the action that President Trump has taken. And I think 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.480 the US Marines we've seen mobilized into Los Angeles over 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:38.839 the course of the last forty eight hours, if they 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:40.600 were ever to be in a position where you had 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.840 Marines standing shoulder to shoulder jostling with protesters, that would 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.200 be a very difficult image for Americans to comprehend. The 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.360 idea of their own army. That idea is to serve 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.880 and to protect all of a sudden is being used 0:10:55.200 --> 0:11:00.200 on their own citizens. Rather than fighting foreign wars or 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.920 fighting wars to protect American lives. It's an extraordinary position 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.080 that America finds itself in, and many people that you 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.920 speak to, whether they are political analysts or whether they 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.040 are people on the street, to tell you that this 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:17.000 is all about Donald Trump trying to wield power and 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.559 exert influence and to say to the rest of America 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.880 that if you do not agree with you, do not 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.679 follow my policies in the way I want you to, 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.320 then I have the force and I can use it. 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:33.079 That's the message he wants to send across America with this. 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.120 At the moment, though, you've got protesters in multiple cities 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.560 who are starting to speak up and speak out. 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:49.920 A lot of this feels like it's turning into a 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.439 Trump versus Democrats, issue, doesn't it. California is obviously the 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:58.200 most populous US state, pretty dominated by Democrat governors, mayor's, senators, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.920 Congress people. Does it feel like he's sending a message 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.880 to the Democrats maybe about how far he is actually 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:04.520 willing to go. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.720 It's a message to Democrats, it's a message to Republicans, 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:09.840 it's a message to Americans, it's a message to the 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.280 world It is about power in so many aspects. Donald 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:17.320 Trump has long wanted a fight with California. He has 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.960 long wanted to try and turn this state Democrat blue 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.760 into Republican red. Part of this for him is a 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.280 political power play. He is taking up a political fight 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:32.040 at the upper level with the Californian Democrats, Governor Gavin Newsom. 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:36.280 He is feuding with Elais Mayor Karen Bass, and. 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:40.400 He feuded with both during the fires in January of 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.760 this year as well. So this is not new ground 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.040 for him. He has done this before and he will 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.640 continue to do it. He is trying to show that 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.680 he wields the power, that he is America's commander in chief, 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:54.840 and he's also a. 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.000 Fan of potential. So he's getting it. 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.720 The question is, though, is whether that attention is going 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.839 to be positive for him or negative for him. Right now, 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.160 he will see that he is winning, think that he 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.520 is winning a public fight with Gavin Newsom, with Karen Bass. 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.440 But this is also a fight that is obviously right 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.200 the way down at the street level. Two, this is 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.960 not just about Donald Trump and governors. This is about ideologies, 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.440 This is about policy, This is about people's lives. But 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.120 the American president is known so much for thinking only 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.199 about the American president and how he's perceived. 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:30.200 Yeah, I understand. 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.600 California Governor Gavin Newsom is seen as a potential presidential 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:36.240 contend of the Democratic Party. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.079 How has he fared through all of this? Do people 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:38.480 like him? 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:38.680 There? 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.240 Govern Newsom is very well liked in California. He is 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.880 very popular among the Democratic base. He is well liked 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:51.160 for standing up to Donald Trump. Whether that message is 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.520 going to be received by people who might want to 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.400 vote for him in a primary in twenty twenty eight 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.079 on the other side of the country, I don't yet know. 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.199 And you have to factor into this too. Yes, Governor 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.080 Newsom may well be making a power play for the 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.160 twenty twenty eight nomination. So part of this fight for 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.560 him is certainly on that to a level, there is 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.240 politics playing out within what is a pretty nasty situation 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.000 on the ground, and nobody ever wants to see politics 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.600 involved in these things. But it is politics that led 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.840 to it. It is politics that is filtering all the 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.480 way through it, and it is ambition and desire for 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.560 power that is also driving it, and that is driving 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.760 the argument on both sides. Be it Donald Trump's argument 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:42.760 bit Gavin Newsom's argument his message yesterday that he put 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.880 out as I talked to you on Wednesday, Los Angeles Time. 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.760 His message he put out Tuesday, Los Angeles Time was 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:54.560 quite simply extraordinary. It was essentially accusing the president of 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:59.040 the United States of America of being somebody who was 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.800 essentially trying to be an authoritarian figure, trying to be 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:09.000 a dictator, trying to militarize the streets of America's second 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:10.120 largest city. 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:17.000 Trump is pulling a military dragnet all across Los Angeles. 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.440 Well beyond his stated intent to just go after violent 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:26.920 and serious criminals. His agents are arresting dishwashers, gardeners, day laborers, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:33.280 and seamstresses. That's just weakness, weakness masquerading as strength. Donald 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.840 Trump's government isn't protecting our communities. They're traumatizing our communities, 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:42.200 and that seems to be the entire point. California will 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.080 keep fighting. We'll keep fighting on behalf of our people, 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.760 all of our people, including in the courts. 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:57.240 It's an extraordinary level of commentary from a man who 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.320 is also at the same time trying to weigh up 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.400 his own police future. What happens for him when he 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.440 is no longer governor, does he try and be the 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.200 next person in the White House. 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.280 As an Australian in the US, does this all feel 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.320 a little bit abnormal? Just watching the scenes on TV, 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.640 it feels strange to see all of this happening, these 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:20.080 kind of demonstrations, the troops coming in. It just seems 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.720 so extreme. I mean, your colleague Lauren to MARSI got 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.680 shot by a rubber bullet while reporting. So does this 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:27.040 feel extraordinary to you? 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.040 Well, first things first, we're all just glad that Lauren 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.920 is okay. She has spoken out about what she went through, 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.560 and she was doing her job. She does an extraordinary 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.400 job at everything she does. She's an extraordinary colleague and 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.920 a good friend. And she went through what she has 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.600 described as an unfortunate experience and I think. 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:55.000 That's putting it mildly. She was shot reporting at a protest. 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.560 Actions that Australia's own Prime Minister have described as horrific 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.280 to have to happen to someone, and he has seen 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:02.440 the footage himself. 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:09.240 Hours of standing off this situation has now rapidly deteriorated. 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:13.520 The LAPD moving it on horseback, firing rubber bullets and 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:25.880 protesters moving them on through the heart of LA. Look, 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.280 I feel embarrassed, quite frankly, I really don't want to 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.520 be the story as part of this. We were just 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.040 on the ground trying to do our job. I was there, 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.040 you know, Jimmy and I were doing our best to 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.679 bring to Australia what is unfolding on the streets of 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.320 LA And I think, you know, as a journalist, we 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.520 want to be there telling the story. I think, you know, 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.320 it's it's a really crappy thing that's happened. But I really, 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.359 I really don't want to be the story here. It is, 0:17:52.520 --> 0:18:00.199 you know, a really chaotic situation that's unfolding in Los Angeles. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.280 We see on the streets here in America, well, American. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:08.000 Protests you see more broadly moving around the country are 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.960 more different than we might be used to in Australia 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.919 or even New Zealand. Here you're dealing with an entirely 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.160 different situation, and it also depends on which. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:17.480 State you're in. 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.399 Now, why are police so heavily armed, Why are they 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.600 using so much force? Why they designed to use non 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.439 lethal force? Well, there's a range of reasons for that 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.760 across different cities. But you've also got to remember too, 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.000 I think there's an added aspect to this that in 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.600 some states in America there is open carry a lot 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.600 of firearms. In other states there's concealed carrier a lot 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.800 of firearms. So ultimately it's a difficult job too for 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:38.720 police in some senses, because they might be able to 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.080 protest not knowing what people are carrying. Somebody could have 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.239 a gun on them and they just don't know. So 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:50.920 LA has seen huge numbers of big protests over many, 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.480 many years. It has become not a protest hub. But 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:55.919 you go back to the Black Lives Matter protests of 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.679 twenty twenty in the in the wake of the murder 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.560 of George Floyd, or go to the Rodney King protests 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.040 of the nineteen nineties. I mean, it has a history 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:10.080 of protest activity and police overreach in some certain aspects too. 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.520 So when you are at these things, you have to 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:13.080 be on edge. 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.560 We take security with us everywhere we go in these 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.880 things in case when we need to get dragged out 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.760 of the situation. But ordinary protesters don't have security with them. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.320 They don't have somebody standing at their shoulder watching ready 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.439 to pull them out if something gets a little bit hairy. 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:31.639 So look, yes, American protest situations, they're far more different 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.280 than we might be used to. But also you have 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.800 to say, more broadly, America as a country as a 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:38.719 whole can be a fantastic place to live in. There 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.959 are beautiful parts of this country right across it. But 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.879 you know, you can turn up to a protest like 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:47.159 the ones we've seen in Los Angeles and things can 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.720 go wrong. Things can go wrong anywhere, but right now 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.440 Los Angeles, we hope the situation is starting to. 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:54.360 Calm down a little bit. 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.399 But these are going to be discussions that continue for 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:02.000 years long beyond these protests about immigration, around protest conditions, 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.280 around should the military even be allowed to be called 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.199 on and turned on it against American citizens. Those conversations 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:10.280 will happen, But right now you've just got to try 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.080 and find some way to get peace on the streets. 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.520 Thanks for joining us, Jonathan, no worries. 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.840 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.680 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.720 at enzherld dot co dot enz. The Front Page is 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.480 produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:36.320 our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.000 page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:45.680 tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.