1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Kyota. 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: If you've turned on any. 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 2: American news channel in the last week, you would have 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: seen water wall coverage of protests spreading across the country. 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: It all started in Los Angeles, where clashes between police 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 2: and protesters were exacerbated by Donald Trump bypassing Governor Gavin 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: Newsom and sending National Guard and Marine troops to the city. 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: La Mayor Karen Bass has. 11 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 2: Blamed the protests on Trump's immigration raids, which she said 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: provoked residents by causing fear and panic. Meanwhile, Trump has 13 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: compared protesters to a foreign invasion and said troops will 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: liberate Los Angeles. With the protests now being picked up 15 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: in other major cities, how wide spread could this get 16 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: and how much of this is a test case for 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: what will happen in the rest of Trump's term. Today 18 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 2: on the Front Page, nine News, US correspondent Jonathan Kurzley 19 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: is with us from Los Angeles to explain what's happening 20 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: on the ground. First off, can you tell me how 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: these protests started. 22 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, these protests started almost a week ago. It was 23 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 3: essentially following raids that had been carried out by Immigrations 24 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 3: and Customs Enforcement officials in Los Angeles. Similar raids had 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 3: been done in Chicago, previously wooded by the Trump administration. 26 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 3: They say to targets illegal immigrants who have committed violent 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: crimes and to deport them. Los Angeles has a huge 28 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 3: migrant community and a very large Hispanic and Mexican population. 29 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: There have been concerns amongst some people, even though they 30 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 3: say they are legitimate citizens, that they fear they could 31 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 3: be deported, or that they're family members who may be 32 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: undocumented may be deported by the Trump administration. There was 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 3: anger on the streets on Friday, and in the days 34 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 3: that followed that anger erupted and it's spread like wildfire 35 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 3: across the country. 36 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: Yes, so tell me about this ICE situation, perhaps for 37 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: some Kiwis who don't know what that is. 38 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 3: ICE is essentially the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency. It is, 39 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 3: if you like, the agency that goes and looks after 40 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 3: trying to find illegal immigrants or trying to find issues 41 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 3: with customs breaches, and then enforcing those measures. 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 4: Now they've been enforced much more. 43 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 3: Forcefully under the administration of President Trump than perhaps many 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 3: experts say previous administration. Donald Trump has made no bones 45 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 3: about what it is he wants to do with migration. 46 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 3: He's claimed America has had an open border, it's had 47 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: migration problems. He's pointed to cases where illegal immigrants have 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 3: killed people, have harmed people, have maimed people, and spoken 49 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 3: with family members who say that their loved ones would 50 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 3: not have been in such a position had it not 51 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 3: been for an attack by an illegal immigrant. Many of 52 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 3: the migrant community, particularly here in Los Angeles, though, feel 53 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: that that is a slur against them. And I'm talking 54 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: about proper migrants here, documented migrants who are here in 55 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 3: this country properly, but just so happened to be of 56 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 3: a Mexican background, or a Colombian background, or any particular 57 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 3: foreign background that is not American. They feel that this 58 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 3: is an attack on them and their community and their 59 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: family members. And it's been well known for a long 60 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 3: period of time that there are large numbers of undocumented 61 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 3: migrants in the Los Angeles and California area. 62 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 4: The economy for years has relied on. 63 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 3: These workers to be part of this industry and to 64 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 3: be part of the employment sector. And right now that 65 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 3: they all feel as though they are under attack. So 66 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: the ICE Agency is the one in charge of carrying 67 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 3: out the wishes of the administration when it comes to 68 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 3: border measures and immigration issues. 69 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 4: Essentially, they are. 70 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 3: In country to carry out roads on people who they 71 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 3: want to get out of the country. 72 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 5: Well, the chaos here in downtown Los Angeles continues tonight. 73 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 5: I got to say, doesn't feel like the ala we 74 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 5: all know and are familiar with. This feels like some 75 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 5: sort of Third world conflicts. I mean, we have fires 76 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 5: burning in the middle of intersections. We have police and 77 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 5: law enforcement agencies under constant attack by these protest as 78 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 5: they have had. 79 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 4: Rocks hurled through the winter. 80 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 5: They are firing fireworks directly at offices who are backed off. 81 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 4: Of it, I've got to say. 82 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 5: And as the knight has worn on, the number of 83 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 5: protesters certainly has dwindled, But they are the ones left 84 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 5: are the real anarchists, the ones who are intent on 85 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,239 Speaker 5: causing the most damaged. 86 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: What's it like there on the ground in Los Angeles. 87 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: We're recording this on Thursday afternoon, New Zealand time. 88 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: What have you sai as I talk to you, this 89 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 3: is now Wednesday evening, Los Angeles time. 90 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 4: It is day six of these protests. 91 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 3: Today, we've seen the protests dwindle in size. We are 92 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 3: approaching the time of the curfew that has been set 93 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 3: for eight pm local time. 94 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 4: That is a curfew. 95 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: Have read about a couple of square kilometers of downtown 96 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 3: Los Angeles, in the area that is normally thriving with people. 97 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 3: It is largely a business district, and most of the 98 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 3: protesters have been targeting federal buildings or court buildings or 99 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 3: the headquarters of the Los Angeles Police Department that are 100 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 3: also down there as well. But it has been much 101 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 3: quieter today than we've seen in previous days. We as 102 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 3: I mentioned it started Friday, things picked up over Saturday, 103 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 3: particularly into Sunday and Monday, and. 104 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 4: Then Tuesday and Wednesday. 105 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 3: Here things have really started to die down a little bit. 106 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 3: Maybe there is a sense that we are getting to 107 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 3: the end of this cycle of protests. 108 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 4: But you look at New York, you look at Dallas. 109 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 3: You look at Atlanta, in Georgia, Boston, Chicago, there have 110 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: been spotfires, protests. 111 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 4: Flare up right across this country. 112 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: So even though Los Angeles may be calming, it may 113 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 3: start to get a little bit noisier in other cities. 114 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 3: So you have to remember here too, Donald Trump has 115 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 3: effectively mobilized seven hundred Marines. The idea that you would 116 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 3: use the US Marines an arm of the US military, 117 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 3: against his own citizens is an extraordinary move. He's also 118 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 3: moved to mobilize thousands of National Guard to do a 119 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 3: move where he's effectively overruling and overriding a state governor 120 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 3: here in the United States, which has been done since 121 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty five. There is an extraordinary amount of power 122 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 3: being thrown at this to try and quell what today 123 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 3: looks like to be just maybe a couple of hundred 124 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 3: protesters on the streets. You do hope, though, that the 125 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 3: violence calms down, that people who want to discuss these 126 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 3: issues can get around a table and discuss them, because 127 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 3: it's been pretty frightening scenes on the streets of Los 128 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 3: Angeles over the course of the last week or so. 129 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've spoken to people on the ground. I mean, 130 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: what's a story from someone that you've spoken to that 131 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: sticks out to you. 132 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 3: We've spoken to people who have had their father deported 133 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 3: that they are protesting for their own father's sake. We've 134 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 3: spoken to people who are concerned about their neighbors being deported. 135 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 3: It is a real sense of community spirit among those 136 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 3: who are down there legitimately trying to plead their case. 137 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: There is certainly a sign that there are trouble makers 138 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: in amongst the mix. And you did when I've been 139 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 3: out there, you tend to see the same groups of 140 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: people moving around bit by bit. 141 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 4: But those who are passionate about. 142 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 3: This issue on a personal level and who it impacts 143 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 3: really are just trying to drive the point home that 144 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 3: these fathers, they are sons, they are people who are 145 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 3: not criminals being targeted, they say, and they are trying 146 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 3: to get a message across the Amrea people that what 147 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 3: is taking place is not right, is not fair, and 148 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 3: is not just. So it is certainly for these people 149 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 3: it is emotional, it is deeply heartbreaking. But then you 150 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 3: combine that with those who are seeking to carry out 151 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: these protests because they want to clash with police, it 152 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 3: damages the movement of the protesters as a whole. Those 153 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 3: who are merely demonstrating about their own families, plant their 154 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 3: own communities light and trying to get the message across 155 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 3: to the Trump administration that things need to calm down. 156 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 6: You take a look at what happened in San Diego. 157 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 6: There's so many different places where we let it burn. 158 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 6: We want to be politically correct, We wanted to be nice. 159 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 6: We want to be nice to the criminal, and what 160 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 6: you're doing is destroying the fabric of our life in 161 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 6: this country. Now, we did the right thing. 162 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 4: We've been given credit for by. 163 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 6: People that I would least suspect. I would say that 164 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 6: some of the people that came in and said thank goodness, 165 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 6: they said some of them thank god that Trump got involved. 166 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 6: And I'm very happy I got involved. And I think Gavin, 167 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 6: in his own way, is probably happy I got involved. 168 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: So Trump's defended his decision to send in the troops, 169 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: saying it was to prevent the city being conquered by 170 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: a foreign enemy. What are people saying about the use 171 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: of the military there. 172 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 4: Here in Los Angeles across California. It's fury. 173 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: It's a fear that their streets are being militarized, that 174 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 3: they are having their own army used against them, that 175 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 3: the National Guard is being brought in when it's not needed. 176 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 4: The LAPD, the police department in. 177 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 3: Los Angeles, had said for the first couple of days 178 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: they believed that they could control the situation. 179 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 4: By about night. 180 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 3: Three, they started to move their positions, say hey, look, 181 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 3: maybe the National Guard could be brought in. We've seen 182 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 3: Republican governors, that is, governors of Donald Trump's party and 183 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 3: others dates bring in the National Guard. Normally it is 184 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 3: the responsibility of a state governor to say, okay, now 185 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 3: it is time for the National Guard. And they are 186 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 3: essentially troops who come in in the event of emergencies 187 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 3: or natural disasters and help either clean up, restore peace, 188 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: and make areas a little bit safer. 189 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 4: So they can be everything from road closures to. 190 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 3: As I've seen, standing outside federal immigration facilities with armed weapons. 191 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 3: So look, there is a real sense of anger about 192 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: the action that President Trump has taken. And I think 193 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 3: the US Marines we've seen mobilized into Los Angeles over 194 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 3: the course of the last forty eight hours, if they 195 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 3: were ever to be in a position where you had 196 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 3: Marines standing shoulder to shoulder jostling with protesters, that would 197 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 3: be a very difficult image for Americans to comprehend. The 198 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 3: idea of their own army. That idea is to serve 199 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 3: and to protect all of a sudden is being used 200 00:10:55,200 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 3: on their own citizens. Rather than fighting foreign wars or 201 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 3: fighting wars to protect American lives. It's an extraordinary position 202 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 3: that America finds itself in, and many people that you 203 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: speak to, whether they are political analysts or whether they 204 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 3: are people on the street, to tell you that this 205 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 3: is all about Donald Trump trying to wield power and 206 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 3: exert influence and to say to the rest of America 207 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 3: that if you do not agree with you, do not 208 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 3: follow my policies in the way I want you to, 209 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 3: then I have the force and I can use it. 210 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 3: That's the message he wants to send across America with this. 211 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: At the moment, though, you've got protesters in multiple cities 212 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 3: who are starting to speak up and speak out. 213 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: A lot of this feels like it's turning into a 214 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 2: Trump versus Democrats, issue, doesn't it. California is obviously the 215 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: most populous US state, pretty dominated by Democrat governors, mayor's, senators, 216 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: Congress people. Does it feel like he's sending a message 217 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: to the Democrats maybe about how far he is actually 218 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 2: willing to go. 219 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: It's a message to Democrats, it's a message to Republicans, 220 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 3: it's a message to Americans, it's a message to the 221 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 3: world It is about power in so many aspects. Donald 222 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 3: Trump has long wanted a fight with California. He has 223 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 3: long wanted to try and turn this state Democrat blue 224 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 3: into Republican red. Part of this for him is a 225 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 3: political power play. He is taking up a political fight 226 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 3: at the upper level with the Californian Democrats, Governor Gavin Newsom. 227 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 4: He is feuding with Elais Mayor Karen Bass, and. 228 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 3: He feuded with both during the fires in January of 229 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 3: this year as well. So this is not new ground 230 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 3: for him. He has done this before and he will 231 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 3: continue to do it. He is trying to show that 232 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 3: he wields the power, that he is America's commander in chief, 233 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 3: and he's also a. 234 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 4: Fan of potential. So he's getting it. 235 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 3: The question is, though, is whether that attention is going 236 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 3: to be positive for him or negative for him. Right now, 237 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 3: he will see that he is winning, think that he 238 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: is winning a public fight with Gavin Newsom, with Karen Bass. 239 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 3: But this is also a fight that is obviously right 240 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 3: the way down at the street level. Two, this is 241 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 3: not just about Donald Trump and governors. This is about ideologies, 242 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 3: This is about policy, This is about people's lives. But 243 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 3: the American president is known so much for thinking only 244 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 3: about the American president and how he's perceived. 245 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand. 246 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 2: California Governor Gavin Newsom is seen as a potential presidential 247 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: contend of the Democratic Party. 248 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 1: How has he fared through all of this? Do people 249 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: like him? 250 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 4: There? 251 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: Govern Newsom is very well liked in California. He is 252 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 3: very popular among the Democratic base. He is well liked 253 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: for standing up to Donald Trump. Whether that message is 254 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 3: going to be received by people who might want to 255 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 3: vote for him in a primary in twenty twenty eight 256 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 3: on the other side of the country, I don't yet know. 257 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 3: And you have to factor into this too. Yes, Governor 258 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 3: Newsom may well be making a power play for the 259 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight nomination. So part of this fight for 260 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 3: him is certainly on that to a level, there is 261 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 3: politics playing out within what is a pretty nasty situation 262 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 3: on the ground, and nobody ever wants to see politics 263 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 3: involved in these things. But it is politics that led 264 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 3: to it. It is politics that is filtering all the 265 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 3: way through it, and it is ambition and desire for 266 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 3: power that is also driving it, and that is driving 267 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 3: the argument on both sides. Be it Donald Trump's argument 268 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 3: bit Gavin Newsom's argument his message yesterday that he put 269 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 3: out as I talked to you on Wednesday, Los Angeles Time. 270 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 3: His message he put out Tuesday, Los Angeles Time was 271 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 3: quite simply extraordinary. It was essentially accusing the president of 272 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 3: the United States of America of being somebody who was 273 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 3: essentially trying to be an authoritarian figure, trying to be 274 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 3: a dictator, trying to militarize the streets of America's second 275 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 3: largest city. 276 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 7: Trump is pulling a military dragnet all across Los Angeles. 277 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 7: Well beyond his stated intent to just go after violent 278 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 7: and serious criminals. His agents are arresting dishwashers, gardeners, day laborers, 279 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 7: and seamstresses. That's just weakness, weakness masquerading as strength. Donald 280 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 7: Trump's government isn't protecting our communities. They're traumatizing our communities, 281 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 7: and that seems to be the entire point. California will 282 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 7: keep fighting. We'll keep fighting on behalf of our people, 283 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 7: all of our people, including in the courts. 284 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 3: It's an extraordinary level of commentary from a man who 285 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 3: is also at the same time trying to weigh up 286 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: his own police future. What happens for him when he 287 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 3: is no longer governor, does he try and be the 288 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 3: next person in the White House. 289 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: As an Australian in the US, does this all feel 290 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 2: a little bit abnormal? Just watching the scenes on TV, 291 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: it feels strange to see all of this happening, these 292 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: kind of demonstrations, the troops coming in. It just seems 293 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 2: so extreme. I mean, your colleague Lauren to MARSI got 294 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 2: shot by a rubber bullet while reporting. So does this 295 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 2: feel extraordinary to you? 296 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 3: Well, first things first, we're all just glad that Lauren 297 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 3: is okay. She has spoken out about what she went through, 298 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 3: and she was doing her job. She does an extraordinary 299 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: job at everything she does. She's an extraordinary colleague and 300 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 3: a good friend. And she went through what she has 301 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 3: described as an unfortunate experience and I think. 302 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 4: That's putting it mildly. She was shot reporting at a protest. 303 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 3: Actions that Australia's own Prime Minister have described as horrific 304 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 3: to have to happen to someone, and he has seen 305 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 3: the footage himself. 306 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 8: Hours of standing off this situation has now rapidly deteriorated. 307 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 8: The LAPD moving it on horseback, firing rubber bullets and 308 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 8: protesters moving them on through the heart of LA. Look, 309 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 8: I feel embarrassed, quite frankly, I really don't want to 310 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 8: be the story as part of this. We were just 311 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 8: on the ground trying to do our job. I was there, 312 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 8: you know, Jimmy and I were doing our best to 313 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 8: bring to Australia what is unfolding on the streets of 314 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 8: LA And I think, you know, as a journalist, we 315 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 8: want to be there telling the story. I think, you know, 316 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 8: it's it's a really crappy thing that's happened. But I really, 317 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 8: I really don't want to be the story here. It is, 318 00:17:52,520 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 8: you know, a really chaotic situation that's unfolding in Los Angeles. 319 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 4: We see on the streets here in America, well, American. 320 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 3: Protests you see more broadly moving around the country are 321 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 3: more different than we might be used to in Australia 322 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 3: or even New Zealand. Here you're dealing with an entirely 323 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 3: different situation, and it also depends on which. 324 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 4: State you're in. 325 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 3: Now, why are police so heavily armed, Why are they 326 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 3: using so much force? Why they designed to use non 327 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 3: lethal force? Well, there's a range of reasons for that 328 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 3: across different cities. But you've also got to remember too, 329 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 3: I think there's an added aspect to this that in 330 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 3: some states in America there is open carry a lot 331 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 3: of firearms. In other states there's concealed carrier a lot 332 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 3: of firearms. So ultimately it's a difficult job too for 333 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 3: police in some senses, because they might be able to 334 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 3: protest not knowing what people are carrying. Somebody could have 335 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,239 Speaker 3: a gun on them and they just don't know. So 336 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 3: LA has seen huge numbers of big protests over many, 337 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 3: many years. It has become not a protest hub. But 338 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 3: you go back to the Black Lives Matter protests of 339 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 3: twenty twenty in the in the wake of the murder 340 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 3: of George Floyd, or go to the Rodney King protests 341 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 3: of the nineteen nineties. I mean, it has a history 342 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 3: of protest activity and police overreach in some certain aspects too. 343 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 4: So when you are at these things, you have to 344 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 4: be on edge. 345 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 3: We take security with us everywhere we go in these 346 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 3: things in case when we need to get dragged out 347 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 3: of the situation. But ordinary protesters don't have security with them. 348 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 3: They don't have somebody standing at their shoulder watching ready 349 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 3: to pull them out if something gets a little bit hairy. 350 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 3: So look, yes, American protest situations, they're far more different 351 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 3: than we might be used to. But also you have 352 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 3: to say, more broadly, America as a country as a 353 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,719 Speaker 3: whole can be a fantastic place to live in. There 354 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 3: are beautiful parts of this country right across it. But 355 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 3: you know, you can turn up to a protest like 356 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 3: the ones we've seen in Los Angeles and things can 357 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 3: go wrong. Things can go wrong anywhere, but right now 358 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 3: Los Angeles, we hope the situation is starting to. 359 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 4: Calm down a little bit. 360 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 3: But these are going to be discussions that continue for 361 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 3: years long beyond these protests about immigration, around protest conditions, 362 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 3: around should the military even be allowed to be called 363 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 3: on and turned on it against American citizens. Those conversations 364 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 3: will happen, But right now you've just got to try 365 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 3: and find some way to get peace on the streets. 366 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Jonathan, no worries. 367 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 368 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 369 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 2: at enzherld dot co dot enz. The Front Page is 370 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 371 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 2: our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front 372 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 2: page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 373 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 2: tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.