1 00:00:06,707 --> 00:00:10,467 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,747 --> 00:00:12,067 Speaker 1: from Newstalk zedb. 3 00:00:12,867 --> 00:00:17,387 Speaker 2: England men's football manager Gareth Southgate stepped down from the 4 00:00:17,507 --> 00:00:20,387 Speaker 2: role after eight years in charge following his side's loss 5 00:00:20,507 --> 00:00:23,947 Speaker 2: in the European Championship final. During his eight years, he 6 00:00:23,987 --> 00:00:27,187 Speaker 2: took the side to consecutive euro finals, as well as 7 00:00:27,227 --> 00:00:29,787 Speaker 2: the semi finals of the twenty eighteen Football World Cup 8 00:00:29,787 --> 00:00:34,307 Speaker 2: and the quarterfinals in twenty twenty two. Owen Eastwood as 9 00:00:34,347 --> 00:00:37,747 Speaker 2: a Kiwi born, UK based performance coach who's worked with 10 00:00:37,787 --> 00:00:41,387 Speaker 2: some elite sporting teams all around the world, including England 11 00:00:41,747 --> 00:00:45,387 Speaker 2: during Gareth Southgate's time in charge. Owen Eastwood is also 12 00:00:45,427 --> 00:00:49,947 Speaker 2: the author of Belonging, the Ancient Code of Togetherness. He 13 00:00:50,027 --> 00:00:52,667 Speaker 2: joins us now, Owen, thanks for taking the time to 14 00:00:53,147 --> 00:00:54,987 Speaker 2: have a chat to us, tell us about your time 15 00:00:55,267 --> 00:00:58,187 Speaker 2: working alongside Gareth Southgate with the England team. 16 00:00:59,347 --> 00:01:01,587 Speaker 3: Kyorder a great honor for me. 17 00:01:02,547 --> 00:01:06,307 Speaker 4: I was retained by the Football Association the year before 18 00:01:06,347 --> 00:01:08,867 Speaker 4: well he became the manager of the team. They were 19 00:01:08,907 --> 00:01:11,467 Speaker 4: doing a big DNA project and they were looking at 20 00:01:11,507 --> 00:01:14,427 Speaker 4: all the aspects of English football and what they found 21 00:01:14,547 --> 00:01:16,227 Speaker 4: is that they were pretty clear on what they wanted 22 00:01:16,267 --> 00:01:18,467 Speaker 4: to do from a technical point of view, but they 23 00:01:19,147 --> 00:01:23,987 Speaker 4: really weren't confident how to create ten culture. So anyway, 24 00:01:24,027 --> 00:01:26,627 Speaker 4: I was invited to participate in that, and at the 25 00:01:26,667 --> 00:01:30,507 Speaker 4: time Gareth was an under twenty one manager and I 26 00:01:30,547 --> 00:01:33,627 Speaker 4: came back with probably quite a radical report. In many ways, 27 00:01:33,667 --> 00:01:37,787 Speaker 4: I felt like they needed a complete transformation, and I 28 00:01:37,787 --> 00:01:40,707 Speaker 4: think with a lot of other managers would have been 29 00:01:40,747 --> 00:01:42,467 Speaker 4: too much for them and too different for them. But 30 00:01:42,507 --> 00:01:46,387 Speaker 4: when he was promoted to be the England men's manager, 31 00:01:46,907 --> 00:01:47,467 Speaker 4: he knew me. 32 00:01:48,187 --> 00:01:51,387 Speaker 3: He agreed with the ideas and we got to work together. 33 00:01:51,907 --> 00:01:54,427 Speaker 2: What sort of things were you suggesting to him and 34 00:01:54,467 --> 00:01:55,027 Speaker 2: to England? 35 00:01:57,187 --> 00:02:00,587 Speaker 4: When I first got appointed, I did a three month 36 00:02:00,667 --> 00:02:04,387 Speaker 4: project trying to understand the culture of English football team. 37 00:02:04,387 --> 00:02:05,347 Speaker 3: Obviously is a kiwi. 38 00:02:06,667 --> 00:02:08,547 Speaker 4: I wasn't familiar with that, and I went back and 39 00:02:08,587 --> 00:02:10,907 Speaker 4: I actually met players going back to the nineteen fifties 40 00:02:11,747 --> 00:02:13,387 Speaker 4: and I asked them what the ten culture was like 41 00:02:13,387 --> 00:02:16,387 Speaker 4: in the nineteen fifties and all the way through and 42 00:02:16,627 --> 00:02:19,307 Speaker 4: started to get a good sense of it. And the 43 00:02:19,387 --> 00:02:22,027 Speaker 4: thing that probably stood out the most was that the 44 00:02:22,027 --> 00:02:25,227 Speaker 4: Golden Generation, which was about twenty years ago of David 45 00:02:25,267 --> 00:02:29,787 Speaker 4: Beckham and Michael Owen and Frank Lampard and Stephen Gerard. 46 00:02:29,827 --> 00:02:30,907 Speaker 3: They were regarded as. 47 00:02:30,827 --> 00:02:35,507 Speaker 4: Probably the best English generation since nineteen sixty six when 48 00:02:35,507 --> 00:02:38,947 Speaker 4: they won the World Cup, and they underperformed pretty miserably 49 00:02:39,107 --> 00:02:42,307 Speaker 4: really over a decade. And I spoke to some of 50 00:02:42,347 --> 00:02:44,627 Speaker 4: those players in the team, and the things that really 51 00:02:44,627 --> 00:02:46,867 Speaker 4: stood out to me was that a lot of the 52 00:02:46,867 --> 00:02:49,947 Speaker 4: players were very candid with me and said that they 53 00:02:49,987 --> 00:02:52,067 Speaker 4: did not enjoy going to a Euro's. 54 00:02:51,787 --> 00:02:52,547 Speaker 3: Or a World Cup. 55 00:02:53,187 --> 00:02:57,467 Speaker 4: The amount of pressure on them was just extreme and 56 00:02:57,547 --> 00:03:00,067 Speaker 4: if you missed the penody you got sent off. Literally 57 00:03:00,147 --> 00:03:04,147 Speaker 4: your life could be detrimentally affected forever. And that had 58 00:03:04,187 --> 00:03:07,787 Speaker 4: happened with some people. You know, it's very actually similar 59 00:03:07,787 --> 00:03:11,347 Speaker 4: to being an all Black. This is incredible intense pressure. 60 00:03:11,427 --> 00:03:14,747 Speaker 4: People get very very emotional things don't go well. They 61 00:03:14,907 --> 00:03:17,267 Speaker 4: expected not only to win, but to win with style, 62 00:03:18,067 --> 00:03:20,387 Speaker 4: and some of the players told me that actually, you know, 63 00:03:20,387 --> 00:03:22,907 Speaker 4: when they'd been defeated in the quarter final of a 64 00:03:22,947 --> 00:03:25,067 Speaker 4: World Cup, the player said to me, if you had 65 00:03:25,187 --> 00:03:27,507 Speaker 4: been on our bus, you would have been sure we'd 66 00:03:27,507 --> 00:03:31,267 Speaker 4: won it. Because the players were actually so relieved to 67 00:03:31,307 --> 00:03:35,027 Speaker 4: go home and for this ordeal to have finished, it 68 00:03:35,067 --> 00:03:38,987 Speaker 4: looked like they were elated and celebrating. That's how bad 69 00:03:39,027 --> 00:03:41,467 Speaker 4: it was. So that was the obvious thing for me, 70 00:03:41,587 --> 00:03:46,307 Speaker 4: is that the culture was one full of fear, full 71 00:03:46,347 --> 00:03:50,227 Speaker 4: of negativity and pessimism really and that was the thing 72 00:03:50,227 --> 00:03:52,347 Speaker 4: they needed to be addressed. And you know, Gareth had 73 00:03:52,347 --> 00:03:54,987 Speaker 4: been in that situation himself, having been a player for England. 74 00:03:55,267 --> 00:03:58,147 Speaker 4: He completely agreed. So that's what we were able to 75 00:03:58,147 --> 00:04:02,347 Speaker 4: collaborate around. What would a more optimistic, positive, energetic culture 76 00:04:02,387 --> 00:04:02,747 Speaker 4: looked like. 77 00:04:03,507 --> 00:04:04,267 Speaker 2: Did it become that? 78 00:04:06,787 --> 00:04:08,387 Speaker 4: You know that I'm very proud of the fact that 79 00:04:08,427 --> 00:04:11,747 Speaker 4: it definitely did. You know, the energy of the team 80 00:04:11,787 --> 00:04:16,547 Speaker 4: fundamentally shifted. As you pointed out after they won the 81 00:04:16,547 --> 00:04:20,587 Speaker 4: World Cup in nineteen sixty six. The only one made 82 00:04:20,587 --> 00:04:23,507 Speaker 4: one semi final of a World Cup after that nineteen 83 00:04:23,587 --> 00:04:26,787 Speaker 4: ninety and they never made the finals of the Euros 84 00:04:27,507 --> 00:04:29,987 Speaker 4: and then the four tournaments that Gareth was a manager, 85 00:04:30,427 --> 00:04:32,587 Speaker 4: made two Euros finals, made a semi final of a 86 00:04:32,627 --> 00:04:36,467 Speaker 4: World Cup and lost a quarterfinal to the reigning champions 87 00:04:36,467 --> 00:04:39,227 Speaker 4: France and the other And what people would say is 88 00:04:39,227 --> 00:04:42,587 Speaker 4: the players enjoyed the experience and they were a lot 89 00:04:43,187 --> 00:04:46,707 Speaker 4: less stressed, So we connected them with the meaning of 90 00:04:46,827 --> 00:04:49,307 Speaker 4: the three Lions and playing for England, and they loved 91 00:04:49,347 --> 00:04:52,187 Speaker 4: all that. We spent time away from training to connect 92 00:04:52,187 --> 00:04:55,827 Speaker 4: them with each other, and that really was a powerful 93 00:04:55,827 --> 00:04:57,547 Speaker 4: thing to have done. And we wanted a fun and 94 00:04:57,547 --> 00:05:00,387 Speaker 4: relaxed We had basketball court set up in the hotels 95 00:05:00,427 --> 00:05:02,267 Speaker 4: and we just wanted them just to be young men 96 00:05:02,307 --> 00:05:03,227 Speaker 4: and enjoy themselves. 97 00:05:03,307 --> 00:05:05,267 Speaker 3: And Gareth was brilliant at that. 98 00:05:05,427 --> 00:05:09,867 Speaker 4: He's a really love gentle person and he wasn't threatening 99 00:05:09,867 --> 00:05:14,067 Speaker 4: to them, he wasn't scary. He was always consistent the 100 00:05:14,147 --> 00:05:16,867 Speaker 4: way he turned up and the players learned to trust 101 00:05:16,947 --> 00:05:20,067 Speaker 4: him and became a father figure into many of them. 102 00:05:20,147 --> 00:05:22,587 Speaker 3: So, yeah, the energy of the team changed and that. 103 00:05:22,587 --> 00:05:24,747 Speaker 4: Led to a direct improvement in their performance, and they 104 00:05:24,787 --> 00:05:25,347 Speaker 4: out about that. 105 00:05:25,787 --> 00:05:29,507 Speaker 2: Are you able to directly correlate those two things or 106 00:05:29,507 --> 00:05:30,787 Speaker 2: did they simply just play better? 107 00:05:32,387 --> 00:05:35,227 Speaker 4: You know, I've had this with other teams as well. 108 00:05:35,707 --> 00:05:38,187 Speaker 4: Sometimes people watch a team on TV and they go, 109 00:05:38,707 --> 00:05:41,227 Speaker 4: you know what, they're not fit. They don't look fit, 110 00:05:41,347 --> 00:05:45,427 Speaker 4: they don't look conditioned. They looked exhausted. And actually, what 111 00:05:45,467 --> 00:05:47,187 Speaker 4: I've learned is that often it has nothing to do 112 00:05:47,267 --> 00:05:49,787 Speaker 4: with physical conditioning. The reason is is that and I 113 00:05:49,827 --> 00:05:51,467 Speaker 4: think a lot of people who are listening to this 114 00:05:51,547 --> 00:05:55,027 Speaker 4: can relate to this in their workplace. Probably is that 115 00:05:55,067 --> 00:05:58,307 Speaker 4: when you're in a very stressful environment where you don't 116 00:05:58,387 --> 00:06:03,187 Speaker 4: really feel psychologically safe, there's a lot of tension around 117 00:06:03,227 --> 00:06:06,307 Speaker 4: you and you don't really trust the environment or your lead. 118 00:06:07,347 --> 00:06:12,267 Speaker 4: That is chronic stress and you are absolutely naked. And 119 00:06:12,307 --> 00:06:14,787 Speaker 4: it's no different for a sports theme as it is 120 00:06:14,787 --> 00:06:18,827 Speaker 4: for any one else. And so there's very simple principles 121 00:06:18,827 --> 00:06:21,787 Speaker 4: and it's actually hormonal. Is a good way to think 122 00:06:21,827 --> 00:06:24,387 Speaker 4: about this is that we want people to be energized 123 00:06:24,387 --> 00:06:27,947 Speaker 4: by having less stress and more oxytocin, which is released 124 00:06:27,947 --> 00:06:30,947 Speaker 4: when you feel connected to people around you, and more dopamina, 125 00:06:30,987 --> 00:06:33,907 Speaker 4: which is released when you are striving towards a goal 126 00:06:33,947 --> 00:06:36,907 Speaker 4: with other people which has some meaning to you. So 127 00:06:37,507 --> 00:06:40,827 Speaker 4: these are quite simple ideas and that definitely transform the 128 00:06:40,907 --> 00:06:43,947 Speaker 4: energy of the team. The fact that Gareth is always 129 00:06:43,947 --> 00:06:46,547 Speaker 4: an optimist, he's focusing on what could go well well 130 00:06:46,627 --> 00:06:48,867 Speaker 4: than what could go wrong. That actually also changes the 131 00:06:48,907 --> 00:06:51,787 Speaker 4: hormonal state of people. When you are surrounded by optimistic people, 132 00:06:52,427 --> 00:06:53,507 Speaker 4: you are less stressed. 133 00:06:54,947 --> 00:06:58,827 Speaker 2: We think the All Blacks coaches under pressure. How much 134 00:06:58,907 --> 00:07:03,467 Speaker 2: is that pressure multiplied as England means football boss. 135 00:07:04,827 --> 00:07:06,827 Speaker 4: I don't think it's multiplied, but I think it's very, 136 00:07:06,947 --> 00:07:13,627 Speaker 4: very similar. And you know, I mean, Gareth has been 137 00:07:13,667 --> 00:07:16,547 Speaker 4: under incredible pressure in this last tournament to win it, 138 00:07:17,227 --> 00:07:20,467 Speaker 4: you know, which if you think about, is quite mad 139 00:07:20,627 --> 00:07:23,747 Speaker 4: because before his time the team which is completely uncompetitive 140 00:07:23,907 --> 00:07:29,707 Speaker 4: for fifty years. So but people like the Zelln public, 141 00:07:29,707 --> 00:07:31,867 Speaker 4: they want to win and they want to win in style. 142 00:07:32,147 --> 00:07:34,747 Speaker 4: And Gareth was criticized for his tactics being a bit 143 00:07:34,787 --> 00:07:37,707 Speaker 4: too cautious. I'm not a football expert, so I wouldn't 144 00:07:37,707 --> 00:07:38,507 Speaker 4: comment on that. 145 00:07:38,987 --> 00:07:39,147 Speaker 1: But. 146 00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:43,747 Speaker 4: There was a desire to move on from him, notwithstanding 147 00:07:43,907 --> 00:07:46,147 Speaker 4: the relative success that he yet, so you know that's 148 00:07:46,227 --> 00:07:48,787 Speaker 4: the reality and we know about that is key reason. 149 00:07:50,387 --> 00:07:52,827 Speaker 4: But you know, having said that, I encourage everybody to 150 00:07:52,827 --> 00:07:55,667 Speaker 4: get right in behind raise it because it's not easy 151 00:07:55,667 --> 00:07:58,187 Speaker 4: what he's doing, and you know, we need to have 152 00:07:58,227 --> 00:08:01,467 Speaker 4: some patients with him and allow all of this to 153 00:08:01,507 --> 00:08:03,827 Speaker 4: play out in the way that he's envisioned. 154 00:08:04,347 --> 00:08:07,627 Speaker 2: As you've outlined O and GaAs Shout came under immense 155 00:08:08,027 --> 00:08:11,987 Speaker 2: heat during the Euros, despite the fact that he guided 156 00:08:12,027 --> 00:08:14,827 Speaker 2: the team all the way to the final. What I mean, 157 00:08:15,067 --> 00:08:18,107 Speaker 2: how did you feel watching him cop it? Not just 158 00:08:18,387 --> 00:08:21,587 Speaker 2: from the media, fans on social media, but also having 159 00:08:21,947 --> 00:08:24,267 Speaker 2: placed a cups thrown at him at one point. 160 00:08:26,267 --> 00:08:28,387 Speaker 4: It was very tough because you know, he's my friend 161 00:08:28,427 --> 00:08:31,787 Speaker 4: as well as my colleague, and I didn't like to 162 00:08:31,787 --> 00:08:33,947 Speaker 4: see him suffer. And he's got a beautiful family and 163 00:08:33,987 --> 00:08:35,187 Speaker 4: they suffer as well. 164 00:08:35,067 --> 00:08:35,987 Speaker 3: So I didn't like that. 165 00:08:36,067 --> 00:08:38,787 Speaker 4: And to be perfectly honest, I'm sort of relieved in 166 00:08:38,827 --> 00:08:41,667 Speaker 4: many ways that he's resigned and we'll move into club 167 00:08:41,787 --> 00:08:44,347 Speaker 4: football management now. One of the things we did with 168 00:08:44,387 --> 00:08:46,827 Speaker 4: the team, and I learned this when I did my 169 00:08:47,467 --> 00:08:52,427 Speaker 4: research before I started with helping them, was that they 170 00:08:52,467 --> 00:08:55,027 Speaker 4: didn't really talk about what they were trying to eve. 171 00:08:55,107 --> 00:08:58,547 Speaker 4: They didn't really talk too much about the purpose of 172 00:08:58,587 --> 00:09:00,427 Speaker 4: playing for England and what it was to be English. 173 00:09:00,427 --> 00:09:01,827 Speaker 4: I didn't talk about those things. I think the All 174 00:09:01,867 --> 00:09:04,667 Speaker 4: Blacks are much more sophisticated in how they think about 175 00:09:04,707 --> 00:09:07,747 Speaker 4: what the shirt represents. With England, you were expected to 176 00:09:07,787 --> 00:09:10,347 Speaker 4: get it and put it on and play well. And 177 00:09:10,347 --> 00:09:13,667 Speaker 4: one of the things that we learned was that some 178 00:09:13,707 --> 00:09:16,027 Speaker 4: of the players, and I remember Michael Wowen told me this, 179 00:09:16,147 --> 00:09:17,827 Speaker 4: is that some of the players really believe what the 180 00:09:17,827 --> 00:09:20,867 Speaker 4: media were saying, and the media was saying in the 181 00:09:20,907 --> 00:09:25,147 Speaker 4: Golden Generation years that you guys don't really care that 182 00:09:25,227 --> 00:09:30,347 Speaker 4: you're selfish, that you're technically not that great, that you're 183 00:09:30,387 --> 00:09:35,147 Speaker 4: mentally weak, you can't take penalties. And one of the 184 00:09:35,187 --> 00:09:38,547 Speaker 4: things Gareth did successfully is create a complete bubble around 185 00:09:38,587 --> 00:09:43,067 Speaker 4: that external noise and just change the narrative to an internal, 186 00:09:43,107 --> 00:09:46,427 Speaker 4: optimistic view of who we were and what we could become. 187 00:09:46,787 --> 00:09:47,467 Speaker 3: And he did an. 188 00:09:47,387 --> 00:09:49,787 Speaker 4: Amazing job of that, and the players really did churn 189 00:09:49,867 --> 00:09:53,987 Speaker 4: out from the external voices and focused on this much 190 00:09:54,027 --> 00:09:56,627 Speaker 4: more positive story about who they could become. But to 191 00:09:56,667 --> 00:09:59,427 Speaker 4: be honest, I could see over the last few weeks 192 00:09:59,467 --> 00:10:03,187 Speaker 4: it was still even getting through to him the criticism 193 00:10:03,227 --> 00:10:04,067 Speaker 4: and the negativity. 194 00:10:04,107 --> 00:10:06,667 Speaker 3: And he's an honorable man and. 195 00:10:06,907 --> 00:10:11,067 Speaker 4: You know, if the fans wanted to change, then he 196 00:10:11,107 --> 00:10:13,387 Speaker 4: would accept that, and that was part of his reasoning. 197 00:10:14,267 --> 00:10:17,747 Speaker 2: When it comes to England overcoming that final obstacle and 198 00:10:17,827 --> 00:10:20,507 Speaker 2: winning major trophies. I mean, as we've outlined under Gareth, 199 00:10:20,547 --> 00:10:22,707 Speaker 2: you know they've reached a couple of Euro finals, a 200 00:10:22,787 --> 00:10:25,667 Speaker 2: semi final and a quarter final of a FIFA World Cup. 201 00:10:25,667 --> 00:10:29,347 Speaker 2: When it comes to winning one of these, is it 202 00:10:29,387 --> 00:10:32,467 Speaker 2: a mindset thing or is it? As I said before, 203 00:10:32,507 --> 00:10:37,667 Speaker 2: playing better football that's more important, or other two inextricably linked. 204 00:10:39,667 --> 00:10:43,107 Speaker 4: You know, it's football in particular is such small margins, 205 00:10:43,227 --> 00:10:47,547 Speaker 4: really really is talking about inches decide massive games. The 206 00:10:47,587 --> 00:10:49,427 Speaker 4: team is not far off, that's pretty obvious. 207 00:10:49,467 --> 00:10:50,307 Speaker 3: If you make two. 208 00:10:50,107 --> 00:10:52,147 Speaker 4: Finals of the euro is the first one they made 209 00:10:52,227 --> 00:10:56,187 Speaker 4: went all the way through extra time and then to 210 00:10:56,227 --> 00:10:59,547 Speaker 4: a penalty shootout, and then the second one was one 211 00:10:59,587 --> 00:11:00,547 Speaker 4: all up to the eighty. 212 00:11:00,307 --> 00:11:02,427 Speaker 3: Fifth minute, So they're not far away. You know. 213 00:11:02,587 --> 00:11:05,587 Speaker 4: Again, there'll be football experts out there who will be 214 00:11:05,627 --> 00:11:08,307 Speaker 4: able to I went to some areas of detail that 215 00:11:08,387 --> 00:11:11,667 Speaker 4: could be improved upon, no doubt, and some tactical ideas 216 00:11:11,707 --> 00:11:14,347 Speaker 4: that we probably will take the team to another level. 217 00:11:15,987 --> 00:11:19,947 Speaker 4: I'm comfortable in saying that. But one thing that I 218 00:11:20,027 --> 00:11:24,107 Speaker 4: have a slight fear of is that football in particular, 219 00:11:24,627 --> 00:11:28,307 Speaker 4: there's this cult of personality around the coach. And well, 220 00:11:28,307 --> 00:11:30,467 Speaker 4: what that sort of means is you put a coach 221 00:11:30,547 --> 00:11:34,227 Speaker 4: in you don't necessarily really understand all their principles of 222 00:11:34,347 --> 00:11:38,987 Speaker 4: play and how they approach things, their cultural blueprint, so 223 00:11:39,067 --> 00:11:42,187 Speaker 4: when they leave, you ask someone else to take the job. 224 00:11:42,747 --> 00:11:45,747 Speaker 4: And all those incredible learnings and the things that work 225 00:11:45,867 --> 00:11:48,827 Speaker 4: really well under the previous manager are sort of all 226 00:11:48,987 --> 00:11:50,907 Speaker 4: thrown up in the air and the new manager has 227 00:11:50,987 --> 00:11:53,107 Speaker 4: given complete discretion as to how they want to do 228 00:11:53,187 --> 00:11:53,667 Speaker 4: these things. 229 00:11:54,507 --> 00:11:58,987 Speaker 3: And you know, I don't that worries me because it's 230 00:11:59,027 --> 00:11:59,747 Speaker 3: not just about. 231 00:11:59,467 --> 00:12:02,987 Speaker 4: Garasouthgate and his personality and his coaching style. There were 232 00:12:03,027 --> 00:12:06,587 Speaker 4: certain things that he discovered as manager, in particular what 233 00:12:06,667 --> 00:12:10,947 Speaker 4: was the optimal environment for English players, what they really enjoyed. 234 00:12:10,587 --> 00:12:11,307 Speaker 3: And thrived in. 235 00:12:11,747 --> 00:12:14,267 Speaker 4: And I do fear that a new coach will come 236 00:12:14,307 --> 00:12:16,787 Speaker 4: in not part of any of that experience and we'll 237 00:12:16,787 --> 00:12:19,587 Speaker 4: just bring in their own ideas from a completely different context. 238 00:12:20,107 --> 00:12:21,907 Speaker 4: I think the All Blacks are pretty good at protecting 239 00:12:21,947 --> 00:12:24,187 Speaker 4: themselves about that. I think they know some of those 240 00:12:24,227 --> 00:12:27,747 Speaker 4: things that work really well and they want continuity. I 241 00:12:27,747 --> 00:12:29,467 Speaker 4: think if a new coach wanted to be the All 242 00:12:29,467 --> 00:12:31,987 Speaker 4: Blacks coach and said I don't really believe in play 243 00:12:32,027 --> 00:12:35,067 Speaker 4: a leadership group something, I'm going to blow that up. 244 00:12:35,427 --> 00:12:37,787 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure they wouldn't get through the interview process. 245 00:12:37,867 --> 00:12:42,467 Speaker 4: But in the Football Association England, you know, although they've 246 00:12:42,707 --> 00:12:45,307 Speaker 4: engaged me for quite a long time, I'm slightly nervous 247 00:12:45,307 --> 00:12:49,467 Speaker 4: they ain't quite understand the reality of how he did 248 00:12:49,507 --> 00:12:52,307 Speaker 4: get such consistently good performances out of that. 249 00:12:53,227 --> 00:12:55,867 Speaker 2: Wait, yeah, we'll wait and see, just to finish in 250 00:12:55,907 --> 00:12:59,467 Speaker 2: the fullness of time. And you know, with I guess 251 00:12:59,667 --> 00:13:03,427 Speaker 2: a few years reflection back on what Gareth Southgate achieved 252 00:13:03,427 --> 00:13:06,787 Speaker 2: as England manager, what do you think is overriding legacy 253 00:13:06,827 --> 00:13:07,187 Speaker 2: will be. 254 00:13:09,187 --> 00:13:11,827 Speaker 4: Well, I think his overriding legacy and is one that 255 00:13:11,907 --> 00:13:18,467 Speaker 4: I will always have a lot of, you know, pride 256 00:13:18,547 --> 00:13:22,267 Speaker 4: in is that he took a team which were very uncompetitive. 257 00:13:23,227 --> 00:13:25,387 Speaker 4: The last competition they played before he was a manager, 258 00:13:25,427 --> 00:13:29,267 Speaker 4: they lost to Iceland in the round of sixteen, okay, 259 00:13:29,547 --> 00:13:32,827 Speaker 4: and he took that team and made them extremely competitive 260 00:13:33,147 --> 00:13:36,867 Speaker 4: and what walking you want from a coach And yes, 261 00:13:37,427 --> 00:13:40,027 Speaker 4: they still to win a trophy, so hopefully the next 262 00:13:40,067 --> 00:13:42,267 Speaker 4: person can do that. But you know, I talk about 263 00:13:42,307 --> 00:13:44,227 Speaker 4: the idea of Fucker Barber and the idea of the 264 00:13:44,267 --> 00:13:47,147 Speaker 4: sun moving down a line of people, and while the 265 00:13:47,147 --> 00:13:50,027 Speaker 4: sun shine on him, he took a very uncompetitive team 266 00:13:50,067 --> 00:13:53,187 Speaker 4: with I would say quite a dysfunctional culture and made 267 00:13:53,187 --> 00:13:54,907 Speaker 4: them one of the best teams in the world. And 268 00:13:54,907 --> 00:13:57,067 Speaker 4: now he's passed that on to someone who will come 269 00:13:57,147 --> 00:14:00,907 Speaker 4: in next and that's a huge thing for him to 270 00:14:00,947 --> 00:14:01,587 Speaker 4: you're proud. 271 00:14:01,387 --> 00:14:04,787 Speaker 2: Of fascinating inside. Owen, thanks so much for joining us 272 00:14:04,787 --> 00:14:08,507 Speaker 2: across New Zealand. It's been been terrifically interesting listening to 273 00:14:08,547 --> 00:14:08,907 Speaker 2: your chat. 274 00:14:10,507 --> 00:14:12,507 Speaker 3: Thank you. Great to chat, Jason, Thanks Owen. 275 00:14:12,547 --> 00:14:16,587 Speaker 2: Owen Eastward there performance coach based in the UK. Some 276 00:14:16,747 --> 00:14:19,947 Speaker 2: interesting insights there into working with the England football team 277 00:14:19,987 --> 00:14:22,187 Speaker 2: and in particular with Gareth Southgate. 278 00:14:22,867 --> 00:14:26,027 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 279 00:14:26,147 --> 00:14:29,427 Speaker 1: to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or follow 280 00:14:29,467 --> 00:14:31,027 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.