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Speaker 1: So three weeks suspension from parliament without pay for arbit again.

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Speaker 1: Debbie Hanna gets seven days. They'll miss the budget. And

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Speaker 1: last night the Marti Party posted on their social media

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Speaker 1: and this is part of the problem that for to

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Speaker 1: Party Marti, when you lose, you actually win. I mean

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Speaker 1: they're not ashamed by any of this. They have posted

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Speaker 1: on their social media. This is the worst punishment handed

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Speaker 1: down ever in our history. The worst on record was

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Speaker 1: three days when tangat Fenua resists colonial powers reached for

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Speaker 1: maximum penalty. This is a warning shot to all of

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Speaker 1: us to fall in line. Lockwoodsmith, Sir Lockwoodsmith, is the

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Speaker 1: former Speaker of the House with me this morning, Sir

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Speaker 1: Lockwood good morning, good morning. Right is this a fair

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Speaker 1: punishment you reckon?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know it's not up to me to comment

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Speaker 2: on whether it's fair or not. That Parliament has to

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Speaker 2: maintain its procedures because it is a control and control

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Speaker 2: of its own law, its own rules. If you like.

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Speaker 2: The privileges that Parliament has are really really important. They

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Speaker 2: make it possible for the lawmakers to do their work

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Speaker 2: and to intimidate another member of the House in the

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Speaker 2: process of carrying out their duties. In the House. There's

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Speaker 2: a serious issue and it can't just be taken lightly.

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Speaker 2: So you know, suspension from the service of the House

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Speaker 2: is one of the outcomes. The Privilegeous Committee has a

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Speaker 2: penalty it has to invoke. It can actually imprison people.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't think I don't think the Privileges

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Speaker 2: Committee or the Parliament New Zealand has ever imprisoned someone

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Speaker 2: for a contempt of the House. But it does have

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Speaker 2: that power. This is the power to find people and

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Speaker 2: the power to imprison people. But this suspension from the

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Speaker 2: service is a reasonably effective, hopefully reasonably effective effective deterrent.

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Speaker 1: Is this the worst punishment? I mean, are they right

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Speaker 1: when they say it's the worst punishment that's ever been

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Speaker 1: handed down? And what about missing the budget?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well I think you know, people members of the

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Speaker 2: House need to think a little bit for they ignore

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Speaker 2: the rules of the House I mean, and for members

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Speaker 2: of de party Maria, I see no reason why when

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Speaker 2: they're called on to speak, they have freedom of speech

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Speaker 2: and they can express their views in ways there that

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Speaker 2: they've considered culturally appropriate. But to interfere with the voting

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Speaker 2: procedure in the House and seek to intimidate the member

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Speaker 2: promoting a bill in the House is quite a serious

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Speaker 2: issue and as I say, I don't think the Privileges

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Speaker 2: Committee has ever imprisoned anyone and so this is a

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Speaker 2: pretty pretty severe penalty. Three weeks suspension and missing the

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Speaker 2: budget parts of the budget debate. I think hopefully we'll

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Speaker 2: make some people take notice.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because the stunt in parliament. You can do

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Speaker 1: stunts in Parliament and we've all seen them. And we

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Speaker 1: had the c word yesterday from Brook van Valden, which

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen, but that was that was a

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Speaker 1: stunt that was planned like to party, Maoris. But Brooke

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Speaker 1: went to the clerk's office and said, can I say,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically ask permission to do the stunt first

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Speaker 1: and therefore avoid censure.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a good point, Ryan, that you know,

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Speaker 2: a speaker wants the House fell to proceed in a

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Speaker 2: way that works for members and had to party. Malori

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Speaker 2: gone to the speaker and said, you know, it would

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Speaker 2: there be a time when we could express our view

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Speaker 2: in an appropriate way with a hakka. I can't believe

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Speaker 2: something couldn't have been worked out that would have been acceptable,

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Speaker 2: but just to interrupt, you know, the voting the voting

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Speaker 2: procedure on a bill, and it passed through my mind.

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Speaker 2: Had I been the Speaker, I probably would have, you know,

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Speaker 2: simply having called on them to express their their vote

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Speaker 2: recorded they hadn't voted, and that the party my I

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Speaker 2: already failed to vote against the Treaty Principal's bill and

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Speaker 2: cleared the galleries, and I wouldn't have suspended the House,

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Speaker 2: so I would have kept the House going. Keeping Parliament

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Speaker 2: going is terribly important. But that's just my personal view,

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Speaker 2: all right.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate your time this morning, Sir Locklin Smith, former

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Speaker 1: Speaker of the Houses. For more from Early Edition with

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Speaker 1: Ryan Bridge, Listen live to News Talks. It'd be from

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Speaker 1: five am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio