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Speaker 1: There's been a vicious backlash from the government's climate change

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Speaker 1: strategy release that was put out last night. Opposition MP's

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Speaker 1: have slammed it, arguing that Simon wants the minister has

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Speaker 1: essentially published a pamphlet to disguise the fact that government

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Speaker 1: has done little to reduce emissions. It sets out five

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Speaker 1: key priorities to focus on when it comes to climate

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Speaker 1: efforts on the government's behalf. Lisa McLaren is from the

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Speaker 1: Climate Activist Group three point fifty alt Heed Oranges with

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Speaker 1: me this morning. Lisa, good morning, Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with me. Can I start with good morning? Good morning?

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Speaker 1: Five quick fire questions for you this morning? Do you

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Speaker 1: generally agree with these sentiments of what the statements I'm

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Speaker 1: about to make. We should have infrastructure that's resilient and

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Speaker 1: communities well prepared for climate change. Do you think that's

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Speaker 1: a good objective?

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Speaker 2: Definitely, though you can do that many different ways.

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Speaker 1: All right, What about do you think we should have

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Speaker 1: pricing emissions and pricing them fairly and effectively to incentive

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Speaker 1: and missions reductions?

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Speaker 2: Again, there's like a wide range of different sortive carbon

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Speaker 2: markets and pricing mechanisms out there, so.

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Speaker 1: But generally generally you agree with that.

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Speaker 2: If it's done well, Okay, do.

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Speaker 1: We need abundant and affordable clean energy?

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Speaker 2: We do?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Do we need to be world leading climate innovators.

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Speaker 2: I think the ship might have sailed with that. We're

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Speaker 2: already quite behind the rest of the world and a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of stuff around climate innovation. So it's great

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Speaker 2: to pang.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So it's a good But in terms of high

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Speaker 1: level aims, you're on board with that and nature based

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Speaker 1: solutions to address climate change. I'm going to say yes

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Speaker 1: for you because I'm in and that's a given, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: So what what what? What this means is you've just

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Speaker 1: agreed with all five of the points the government's made.

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Speaker 1: So what exactly are you upset about?

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Speaker 2: So? I think you can put a nice little plan

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Speaker 2: down on a couple of pieces of paper and it

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Speaker 2: can look fine if it's high level. There's a few

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Speaker 2: nice sentences that actually, this plan, well if you can

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Speaker 2: call it a plan, is fundamentally inconsistent with the government's

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Speaker 2: other policies that have been releasing since they've got into

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Speaker 2: office that impact climate change. So expects tellers that to

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Speaker 2: meet our Paris Taggarts we need to keep sixty five

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Speaker 2: percent of oil and gas reserve and ninety percent of

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Speaker 2: all coal reserves there must be left in the ground.

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Speaker 2: It's just that simple. And this government wants to do

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Speaker 2: the opposite, or they've been talking about it seems in

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Speaker 2: the media since they got into powers oil and gas inspiration,

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Speaker 2: maybe reversing that van looking at mining on conservation land,

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Speaker 2: things that we thought were left in the past, that

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Speaker 2: they're not consistent with climate action, okay, and that makes

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Speaker 2: this new plan really meaningless.

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Speaker 1: All right, So it's the other things that they're doing.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that oil and gas ban. What do

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Speaker 1: you think is happening? Because the government is saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to go and get the oil and out,

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Speaker 1: but if we don't, then we're going to be importing

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Speaker 1: dirty Indonesian coal. So what do you think is better

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Speaker 1: New Zealand gas or dirty Indonesian coal?

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't think either. If we get a good

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Speaker 2: infrastructure plan happening now, we need that investment in our

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Speaker 2: renewable energy infrastructure now. And also the governments are sending

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Speaker 2: these signals out to overseas companies, so they are just

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Speaker 2: going to come and instruct it take the profits overseas,

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Speaker 2: whereas actually, if we look at things like proper energy

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Speaker 2: storage here, we can make the power cheap of the

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Speaker 2: households improve their energy security as a company.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to read things like I'm just sorry

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Speaker 1: to interrupt you, but I'm just going to quickly read

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Speaker 1: your Lisa. This is just a headline from Radio and

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Speaker 1: New Zealand from the eighth of May of this year,

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Speaker 1: Genesis Energy to fire up coal imports citing increased demand

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Speaker 1: and dwindling gas supply. So this is after the last

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Speaker 1: government band oil and gas. You've now got sitting at

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Speaker 1: Genesis Energy, sitting at the Huntley Power State half a

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Speaker 1: million tons of coal that they've imported, and they're about

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Speaker 1: to pull trigger on importing another three hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand tons. So you're saying that we've got enough to transition,

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Speaker 1: but clearly we don't. I mean, otherwise we wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: importing all this coal, right.

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Speaker 2: I think if you look overseas, there's some great examples

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Speaker 2: where some of this new renewable and clean energy infrastructure

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Speaker 2: is helping with some of those like peaks and troughs

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Speaker 2: of the energy market. So things like we saw recently

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Speaker 2: Australia electric vehicles. We're helping keep the power grids like rebalanced,

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Speaker 2: if that national grid losers supply really quickly, so they

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Speaker 2: can be used as a back up and emergencies. Other

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Speaker 2: technology out there. Why do we want to come back

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Speaker 2: to the stuff that actually is climate harming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but Lissa, do you see the problem that it's

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Speaker 1: the lesser of two evils. It's not like it's not

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Speaker 1: like the government is out there saying we want to

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Speaker 1: be getting all this out and doing all these nasty things.

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Speaker 2: I think they are so like if he's looking, you

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Speaker 2: see fresh reck and no, if you look at Shane Jones'

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Speaker 2: reshrick in the news, these talking about drill, baby, drill.

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Speaker 2: We're open for business. These climate hippies have got nothing

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Speaker 2: on us. We can just do this. This is the

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Speaker 2: right thing to do. They unicorns like, that's not a

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Speaker 2: government that's going out there and saying this is the

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Speaker 2: like last case like solution we need. This is something

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Speaker 2: they're actively promoting.

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Speaker 1: Lisa, thank you very much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: That's Lisa McLaren. She's the three point fifty ALTI Dour

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Speaker 1: spokesperson for more from News Talks there'd be listen live

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