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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Continuing our Great New Zealanders of Christmas series. Everyone Knows

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Speaker 2: Jude Dobson. She became a familiar television presence in the

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Speaker 2: nineteen nineties after Quiz Show Sale of the Century. She

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Speaker 2: went on Too How almost one thousand episodes of five

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Speaker 2: point thirty with Jude Wow and its follow up. For

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Speaker 2: the past six years she's been researching, writing, producing and

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Speaker 2: directing World War One and World War II content, and

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Speaker 2: this year she released a book, The Last Secret Agent.

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Speaker 2: My life is a Spy behind Nazi lines with the

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Speaker 2: last surviving World War II British spy. It's the real,

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Speaker 2: untold story of Pipolatour's time as a secret agent in

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Speaker 2: the deadly world of Nazi France. The book has been

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Speaker 2: a smash hit here in New Zealand, been reprinted four

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Speaker 2: times and in Australia, and has been released in the

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Speaker 2: UK and is coming out in the US A in

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Speaker 2: May next year. I believe, Jude, congratulations on your huge

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Speaker 2: success this year. Are you surprised at how well the

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Speaker 2: book was wenton was received?

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Speaker 3: I hadn't actually thought about how well it would go.

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Speaker 3: It was just such a birth. The pregnancy and birth

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Speaker 3: was quite painful. But Pippa's story is amazing, and I'm

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Speaker 3: so pleased for her. She's no longer with us, of course,

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Speaker 3: but I'm really pleased for her that I could help

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Speaker 3: her bring that to life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I I secretly thought it might go okay because

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Speaker 3: when I started talking to her olwer, Yeah, this is

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Speaker 3: quite amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it was a story that you know, when

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Speaker 2: you came across her and first started talking to her,

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Speaker 2: It's quite amazing that the story exists and exists here

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand. So the fact that it actually exists

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Speaker 2: was amazing. And then the execution of her story about

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Speaker 2: you was fantastic, but fantastic that you found it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I was researching some World War II aviators in twenty

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Speaker 3: nineteen and she was introduced to me, and I said, oh,

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Speaker 3: gosh'd be great if you told your story one day,

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Speaker 3: and she sort of gave me that look like that's

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Speaker 3: never happening. But she did tell her story with not

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Speaker 3: a lot of runway left at one hundred and one. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I secured a publishing deal for her. So I

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Speaker 3: just want to make that clear. Roties, I go my way,

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Speaker 3: they all go to Hipper or her estate. So and

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Speaker 3: she didn't have a lot to her name.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and what was that first sit down with Piper?

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Speaker 3: Like, oh, well there before we got to that stage. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the first sit down you mean when we sat down

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Speaker 3: to chat, you're no really good?

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Speaker 1: She was up for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she had a task and she wanted to do it.

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Speaker 3: And it was a bit like once she'd decided, it

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Speaker 3: was all good.

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Speaker 1: I mean I had some rules.

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Speaker 3: Around rules of engagement, yes, you know, not more than

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Speaker 3: sort of nineteen minutes. She was one hundred and one

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Speaker 3: hundred and one then, and I had to go between

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Speaker 3: the dove feeding times and one day I was late,

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Speaker 3: and of course she doesn't have as No, there's no

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Speaker 3: data there. I mean your phone goes to SOS WiFi,

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Speaker 3: no data. So if I'm late, I couldn't run, couldn't text.

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Speaker 2: So for people that don't know the situation, she's she's

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Speaker 2: set up very remotely.

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Speaker 3: Yes, in Henderson Valley, Yeah, and very remote. Seventeen hectares no.

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Speaker 2: No no, no, no WiFi, no five.

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Speaker 3: No, none of that. Yeah, so it was quite it

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Speaker 3: was quite love and my phone would just sort of disappear.

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Speaker 3: And if I was if I got to travel a

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Speaker 3: couple of times last year with the World War One

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Speaker 3: museum I was working on in France, and so I

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Speaker 3: would the first time. Silly may I thought, oh, yes,

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Speaker 3: I'll show her all the videos and the photos. And

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Speaker 3: i'ment not It's all in the cloud. So before i'd visit,

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Speaker 3: I'd have to download everything to my laptop. And it

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Speaker 3: was so lovely to see her go, oh yep, no,

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Speaker 3: that's my village. Oh yeah, and I remember that it

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Speaker 3: was really visually it was beautiful for her, just to

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Speaker 3: watch her see it all and and remember and.

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Speaker 4: When did her family find out about her clandestine life? Early?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, about twenty years ago. Wow, and she was in

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Speaker 3: the acies then, so something, you know, people knew of her.

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Speaker 3: I mean, she's I found a wonderful researcher in the UK.

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Speaker 3: He knew all about her. They knew of her, but

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Speaker 3: she didn't tell her family. And there were certainly the

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Speaker 3: essays and defense knew here her here. The essays were marvelous.

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Speaker 3: They go out and clean up her house every couple

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Speaker 3: of twice a year. Yeah, but didn't know, she's pretty.

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Speaker 3: As she said, this is nobody's business but my own,

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Speaker 3: my war, my story. I don't need to tell it

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Speaker 3: until she did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because for us we find the whole thing interesting

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Speaker 2: and exciting. But for a long time, for her, you know,

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Speaker 2: that was something she did, and then she came back

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Speaker 2: and had other parts of her life and had children

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Speaker 2: and then sort of kind of I don't know. There's

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Speaker 2: some people that just will want to talk about it

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Speaker 2: the whole time over drinks, and there's some people that

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Speaker 2: just want to pine them for a while.

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Speaker 3: Correct, she was the latter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thank goodness that you that you got to

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Speaker 2: talk to her, and so close to the end, as

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Speaker 2: you say, because yeah, lucky me. It's fantastic that the

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Speaker 2: story got out there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I feel extremely privileged, Matt. They have talked

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Speaker 3: to her. Pretty fortunate.

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Speaker 4: Just a little bit about the intro of Pippa parachuting

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Speaker 4: into the danger zone and obviously she put herself in

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Speaker 4: this immense danger and she was selected because she was

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Speaker 4: fluent in French and she had those coding skills. But

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Speaker 4: she had to come up with some pretty ingenious ways

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Speaker 4: to get the messages back to the Allies.

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Speaker 3: Didn't she. Are you talking about her coding? Yes, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: well the way she her silk coat. She they're like

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Speaker 3: a size of a handkerchief really, and so she had

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Speaker 3: decided to put them into an old shoelace which was

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Speaker 3: flat in those days, and then stuffed them in with

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Speaker 3: a knitting needle and then use that as a hair

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Speaker 3: tie because of course, you know, you're not having pretty

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Speaker 3: ribbons back in the day, and she was her alias

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Speaker 3: was a schoolgirl, so it was quite normal to have

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Speaker 3: some knitting and you know that that is a hair tie. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so that's how she had them. Yeah, surely only once

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Speaker 3: almost got them discovered when she got strip search, but

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Speaker 3: they didn't think to look at that.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, incredible.

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Speaker 2: The bravery of it is what blows me away. And

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Speaker 2: you you know, you wonder who has that bravery in them.

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Speaker 2: I know I wouldn't have that bravery in me.

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Speaker 3: A different time though, you know, although a world might

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Speaker 3: be changing, jets of it. I think I think we've

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Speaker 3: had a whole couple of generations. I mean, I look

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Speaker 3: at our children. You know, peace had peace for decades.

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Speaker 3: They haven't known Europe at war, have they? None of them?

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Speaker 3: So and that generation is just dying off that remember

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Speaker 3: it and.

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Speaker 4: What was it like for you when you went over

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Speaker 4: there last year? I believe to go visit these locations

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Speaker 4: and find more information about Purple. What was that like

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Speaker 4: for you?

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Speaker 3: Extraordinary? Our schoolgirl French was utter rubbish, but I took

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Speaker 3: photos of her and managed her in this little village.

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Speaker 3: They remembered her. And the piece of gold for me

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Speaker 3: was going to the village they sent me. The chaps

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Speaker 3: on the batonk Court sent me five kilometers, So met

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Speaker 3: what if it was five kilometers a golf you know?

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Speaker 4: Left.

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Speaker 3: I got to this little library and there was a

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Speaker 3: book there that the man who has her touched on

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Speaker 3: the ground his her safe house. He had written a

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Speaker 3: memoir and written all the dates of exactly what happened,

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Speaker 3: and her name was in it. And so I went, hey, Peppa,

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Speaker 3: you know those stories you tell me and you don't

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Speaker 3: know what time they are bingo, I have it all.

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Speaker 3: So that was just I mean, I don't believe in

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Speaker 3: another force, but there was something there that went, yeah, hey,

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Speaker 3: I can help you out.

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Speaker 4: That's incredible.

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Speaker 2: We're talking to Jude Dobson, author of This Secret Agent.

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Speaker 2: My Life is a Spy behind Nazi Lines, the story

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Speaker 2: of Papola Tours. We're now for the book, so it's

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Speaker 2: coming out in the US and may we got further

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Speaker 2: plans for it.

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Speaker 3: Well, I have secured the option on film because I

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Speaker 3: would like to have a go at that. And I'm

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Speaker 3: learning how to do a screenplay, which is a different discipline.

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Speaker 3: And hey, look, we've all got to scare ourselves and

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Speaker 3: learn new things. But I've already visualized what I like

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Speaker 3: in this film. So I need to find a big

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Speaker 3: film fish. Yeah, yes, who wants to talk to me?

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Speaker 3: And yeah, get on with doing that. I'd love to

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Speaker 3: make that film with somebody that knows more than me

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Speaker 3: about film.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting that you should say visualize that because I

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Speaker 2: was just listening to this podcast with Quentin Tarantino and

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Speaker 2: he said the difference between film executives and filmmakers is

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Speaker 2: that the film maker has already visualized the film. I sure,

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Speaker 2: so they can answer the questions because they've kind of

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Speaker 2: already seen it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've already put a drone up, got the car

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Speaker 3: going through there, I've got the doves, I've got the

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Speaker 3: on the roof, I've got some things in my head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh, brilliant news talk z B.

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Speaker 4: We are talking to Juke Dobson is part of our

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Speaker 4: great New Zealanders of Christmas series. Jude, thanks again Fever

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Speaker 4: in a chat with us.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 4: So what does Christmas look like for you this year?

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Speaker 3: Well, our two big kids are flying back and from

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Speaker 3: the States, so that's my best present. I'm tracking them

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Speaker 3: on flat flight radar as we speak.

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Speaker 4: You are and what part of the will there? And

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Speaker 4: they're in the American in America? Yeah, yeah, fantastic. You're beautiful.

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Speaker 2: All right, this is a key question. Best Christmas song

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Speaker 2: and best Christmas movie?

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Speaker 3: Oh well, driving home for Christmas always makes me a

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Speaker 3: little bit teary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so beautiful.

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Speaker 3: I like songs that are beautiful to listen to lyrically

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Speaker 3: and also have some meaning. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was talking you about this yesterday. That piano

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Speaker 2: line than the chorus, so good.

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Speaker 3: To play it.

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Speaker 2: And that last line he looks over at the guy

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Speaker 2: he goes, He's just the same.

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Speaker 3: That's such a great life.

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Speaker 4: This might be a hard question, Jude, but the best

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Speaker 4: piece of advice you think you've had this year?

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Speaker 3: Oh, I keep it. I have my mother in my head. Actually,

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Speaker 3: because I've lost my mum and her advice always rings

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Speaker 3: true on anything. It's this, too shall pass, which can

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Speaker 3: be a little bit of a hackneyed expression, but you know,

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Speaker 3: people often think about that as oh, it's hard moments,

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Speaker 3: you know it's going to pass. And I remember when

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Speaker 3: our kids were little, she'd often say that to me.

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Speaker 3: But actually is the flip side of that, which is

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Speaker 3: when times are really good, they passed too. So just

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Speaker 3: trying to stay in the moment with what you're doing

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Speaker 3: and being in it because it doesn't last. Nothing lasts,

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Speaker 3: and the only constant and that's the only constant in

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Speaker 3: life has changed. And often say that to our young

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Speaker 3: adult children, you know, just at all of us. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I've got nothing like and up in the wave of

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Speaker 3: media next year, so I have to go, oh, that's right,

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Speaker 3: my own advice. Life constantly change.

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Speaker 4: It's really nice.

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Speaker 1: That's so true.

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Speaker 2: So true though. If you're going through a difficult time,

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Speaker 2: it will pass. But if you're going through a good time,

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Speaker 2: that'll pass, So enjoy that.

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Speaker 3: And I think our role as fellow human beings is

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Speaker 3: to be cognizant of that, and especially at this time

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Speaker 3: that you just reach out to people you know, it's

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Speaker 3: a bit but I get a bit over the think, oh, family,

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Speaker 3: friends have a lovely Christmas. A lot of people don't

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Speaker 3: have a lovely Christmas because they don't have family or friends.

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Speaker 3: So we often have We've often had waives and strays,

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Speaker 3: which are really fun Christmas. It's divorces whatever, you know,

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Speaker 3: people on their own.

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Speaker 4: It's lovely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a huge thing. I was just watching

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Speaker 2: the Christmas Carol, you know that, and yeah, great, and

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Speaker 2: you know, one of the best moments of that book.

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Speaker 2: I love the book, but as when you know, when

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Speaker 2: Scrooge goes around to his nephew's house and there's that

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Speaker 2: moment whether they're going to accept it, and then they

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Speaker 2: just go, yeah, bring in because even though he's been

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Speaker 2: a deck, he's on his own. And then so they

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Speaker 2: welcome them into that house. There's a great moment.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't say. My movie Polar Express and there's

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Speaker 3: little lots of little lovely moments in the you know,

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Speaker 3: like little Billy, the kid who's a bit shy, and

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Speaker 3: the other kids sort of bring them on board.

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Speaker 2: Also also a motion capture Christmas movie by the same

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Speaker 2: as the Christmas Carol movie. I was just talking about.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, there you go, Yeah, you're goe. And look,

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Speaker 2: here's a difficult, difficult question, isn't it. You've got a

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Speaker 2: message for New Zealand for twenty twenty five because everyone's

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Speaker 2: doing and survived to twenty twenty five. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of grimness going around, but you've got a message for

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Speaker 2: us in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it probably goes with the one I

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Speaker 3: was just saying about, you know, thinking about Christmas, because

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Speaker 3: Christmas is just one day. But I do think that

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Speaker 3: thing of well, actually, resilience is the thing. But in

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Speaker 3: looking out for your fellow man. I know it sounds

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Speaker 3: a bit ridiculous and a bit cheesy, you know, great

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Speaker 3: some cheese on top of that, But I learned this

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Speaker 3: from Pepper actually, and I've learnt it in some of

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Speaker 3: this child development stuff I've don Resilience is it also

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Speaker 3: a bit of a thing? People go, oh, that means

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Speaker 3: hard enough, get them out there, life's tough enough. Actually,

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Speaker 3: if you're resilient, that means you have people in your corner,

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Speaker 3: and actually that's what makes you resilient. You've got someone

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Speaker 3: that you can always talk to and say things are

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Speaker 3: a bit tough, and that actually gives you enough confidence

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Speaker 3: to give things a crack. So I'd say just think

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Speaker 3: about the people around you and what can you do?

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Speaker 3: Service is a funny, old fashioned expression, but what service

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Speaker 3: can you be to other people?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And when you think about your life and how hard

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Speaker 2: it may be, and for some people is very hard,

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Speaker 2: and others of us make it harder than it needs

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Speaker 2: to be. But you might want to think about Pippa

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Speaker 2: behind the behind enemy lines, are risking your life for

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Speaker 2: something that she believed in and needed to be done,

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Speaker 2: and not all of us have to do that. So

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Speaker 2: maybe we should do little bits of that if we can,

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Speaker 2: and whatever way it manifests in our lives, can I need.

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Speaker 4: A lot of that next year? Ye fantastic or Jude,

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Speaker 4: lovely chatting with you and thank you very much. Have

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Speaker 4: a great Christmas, you two, and we'll see again.

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Speaker 1: So for more from Newstalk st B, listen live on

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Speaker 1: air or online and keep our shows with you wherever

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