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Speaker 1: Heather Do for Ce Allen. The government's introduced the law

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Speaker 1: to Parliament today which will make it harder for some

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Speaker 1: asylum seekers to get refugee status. It's a bill, not

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Speaker 1: a law actually the crimes committed. What it means is

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Speaker 1: that crimes committed in this country will be taken into

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Speaker 1: account before decisions are made refugee decisions, which is not

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Speaker 1: the case at the moment. Immigration lawyer Pouja Sunda was

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Speaker 1: at the minister's announcement about this today and is with

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Speaker 1: us Hipooja, Hello, Heather, thanks for the time. Yeah, thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining us. I mean this is fair enough, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: If you commit a crime in New Zealand before we

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Speaker 1: give you asylum, we should be able to take that

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Speaker 1: into account.

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Speaker 2: I think it's absolutely fair to take that into account.

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Speaker 2: I think the issue really is is about what we're

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Speaker 2: going to do with it. Are we going to put

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Speaker 2: them on a variety of work visas which destabilitizes them

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Speaker 2: not being able to access for rehabilitation, not being able to

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Speaker 2: access the support they need to ensure they don't offend again,

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Speaker 2: or whether we give them residents and those supports that

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Speaker 2: they really need to ensure that while they remain in

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Speaker 2: this country, they're able to hopefully focus on being law

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Speaker 2: by then citizens.

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Speaker 1: Do we have the option of sending them somewhere else.

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Speaker 2: No, not if we're going to abide by our international conventions,

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Speaker 2: and that is how it should be.

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Speaker 1: So we should keep a murderer in the country, which

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Speaker 1: is one of the ones that is currently asking for asylum.

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Speaker 2: I think the difference is that we need to abide

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Speaker 2: by the international conventions that New Zealand was signed up to.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't mean that they're not going to be.

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Speaker 1: Subject to the criminal justice system.

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Speaker 2: They're absolutely going to face punishment for what they've done,

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Speaker 2: and the criminal justice system we have in New Zealand

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Speaker 2: will take care of that. But doesn't mean that we

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Speaker 2: have to send them home to potentially be facing death

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Speaker 2: or arbitrary detention or torture themselves. That's just not how

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Speaker 2: New Zealand operates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is that under the bill that has just been introduced?

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Speaker 1: Is that a possibility or are we stuck with them

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Speaker 1: in this country.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's about them being stuck in this country.

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Speaker 1: I think it's about it we don't want to hung

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Speaker 1: upon my language I'm trying to get to I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to understand something here. Does the bill allow us to

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Speaker 1: deport them if they are murderers seeking asylum or are

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Speaker 1: we required to even if we don't give them asylum,

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Speaker 1: keep them here.

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Speaker 2: It's actually a really complicated question, and it's not just

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Speaker 2: about this bill. It's about the Immigration Act as it stands.

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Speaker 2: There are ways that refugees can be deported, recognized refugees,

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Speaker 2: recognize potential protective persons, but.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a much larger conversation. I think I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you, well, I'll go to the minister that she'll

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Speaker 1: be able to answer that question. How do you feel

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Speaker 1: about the fact that they will get two days notice

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Speaker 1: of the biometrics appointments where the fingerprints will be taken?

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Speaker 2: Really not good. I think that this was not something

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Speaker 2: that was ever happening. In fact, the rule actually just

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Speaker 2: started on the first of March, and so this hasn't

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Speaker 2: been something that people have been failing to attend. This

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Speaker 2: is something that has been created to actually trip people

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Speaker 2: up and potentially have an avenue to decline refugee claims,

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Speaker 2: especially when they don't speak sorry, go ahead, no.

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Speaker 1: No, no care, especially when they don't speak.

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Speaker 2: When they don't speak English, they have faced trauma and

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Speaker 2: what their experiences that aren't having interpret and they're not

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Speaker 2: sure what's happening. Been Having to go in for two

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Speaker 2: days to a position of authority to give your fender

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Speaker 2: prints and your passport can be very difficult to handle.

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Speaker 1: Can it all right? Pooja? Thank you very much? Appreciate it,

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Speaker 1: Pooja Sunder immigration lawyer. I tell you what we will.

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Speaker 1: We'll get in contact with us because I think this

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Speaker 1: is important. Right. I don't know if you're aware of this,

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Speaker 1: but there are fourteen people in this country right now

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Speaker 1: who've committed various crimes including murder, sexual serious sexual crimes,

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Speaker 1: serious drug crimes, arson who are looking for asylum that

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Speaker 1: will now be taken into account when it wasn't previously before.

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Speaker 1: Refugee status is granted. But that's fine. But the question

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Speaker 1: now is what do you do if you don't give

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Speaker 1: them the refugee status? Do you get rid of them?

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Speaker 1: So we'll go to the Minister's office and we'll ask

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Speaker 1: the minister's office and I'll get you that answer as

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Speaker 1: soon as possible. For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,

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