Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Louise Ari and I'm Francisca Rudkin, and welcome
Speaker 1: to season five of our New Zealand Here podcasts The
Speaker 1: Little Things. Thanks for being with us.
Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast and we're here to figure out
Speaker 2: life little things, the everyday stuff that can feel surprisingly
Speaker 2: big at times. We chat with experts who help us
Speaker 2: make sense of it all, and sare ideas that we
Speaker 2: think matter no matter what age or stage you're at.
Speaker 2: And I think of this as a shortcut through all
Speaker 2: the noise straight to the good stuff that makes a difference.
Speaker 1: Okay, we've got one of our favorite guests back today.
Speaker 1: I'm going to introducem Early dtor Justin Colson. He is
Speaker 1: back for another episode. Last time he joined us, he
Speaker 1: gave us some beautiful, simple and effective advice on raising
Speaker 1: our kids. Remember the whole love you no matter what?
Speaker 1: That was in early twenty twenty four. I could have
Speaker 1: sworn it was longer ago, but that's because so much
Speaker 1: has probably happened since we last spoke to him. Well,
Speaker 1: our kids have kind of flywn the coop, Well they have? Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: that's so true. One, you know, Mike, one of my
Speaker 1: kids is about to finish their first year at Union.
Speaker 1: One's about to finish school, and I'm excited about that.
Speaker 3: It's quite a wild staring. I'm excited.
Speaker 2: And conversations change between yes, having a school age child
Speaker 2: at home under your roof to having you know, the
Speaker 2: semi kind of young adults.
Speaker 1: But the worry never goes away for a parent or
Speaker 1: for our young people.
Speaker 2: Do they know My oldest has just finished his university
Speaker 2: degree and is starting work and I still, you know,
Speaker 2: keep a pretty not a super close eye on things,
Speaker 2: but I worry from time to time. And yeah, I
Speaker 2: just I guess I think how far our kids have
Speaker 2: come since we spoke to Justin, and also kind of
Speaker 2: how far we've come. You know, each child leaving is different.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I was weepy and said when the oldest left, and
Speaker 2: less weepy and said when in the middle one, which
Speaker 2: is not a reflection on her, that's that's me learning
Speaker 2: to live things. Then she threw us for a loop
Speaker 2: on a couple of things and worked through those, and
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, it's all just time and experience, isn't it.
Speaker 1: So we thought we'd get Justin back today to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about how we support our kids with
Speaker 1: their worries, with what their concerns are. Have you do
Speaker 1: in preparation for this podcast? Did you actually ask any
Speaker 1: of your kids what they worry about these days?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 4: Did?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you'll see as we as the conversation hopefully
Speaker 2: unfills with Justin. But the big ones for my kids
Speaker 2: are the pressure of social media, not so much worrying
Speaker 2: about getting scammed and that kind of stuff, just just
Speaker 2: more kind of almost like they want to say, leave
Speaker 2: me alone, just leave me alone. And I'm like, you can,
Speaker 2: you can get it to leave you alone. But they're
Speaker 2: not there yet, so I don't know how it all works.
Speaker 2: I don't know how they got sacked, and I don't
Speaker 2: know what the addiction of the DOPA meant any of that,
Speaker 2: But that is a worry for them. Other than that,
Speaker 2: you know, they worry about the normal things.
Speaker 3: Will I get a job? Will I have some money?
Speaker 3: Will I you know? Will somebody love me?
Speaker 1: I had two completely different reactions from my children. One
Speaker 1: struggle to find anything to worry about, which kind of
Speaker 1: which is great, sums that child up perfectly happy, go
Speaker 1: lucky and everything. But at she then said to me,
Speaker 1: I worry about the things that are directly in front
Speaker 1: of me. I worry about the what is directly in
Speaker 1: front of me now, like I just want to finish,
Speaker 1: finish university. I need to find somewhere to live next year.
Speaker 1: I'd like to have a job so I can pay.
Speaker 3: For all this.
Speaker 1: So, you know, my son is very much what's the
Speaker 1: problem in front of me? What do I need to get?
Speaker 1: Sort of wanted to do, that's what that's what I
Speaker 1: worry about. My other child was very much along the
Speaker 1: lines of I worry about everything, but that was potentially
Speaker 1: to be expected. It was a pretty stupid question for
Speaker 1: me to ask. But then she said something I thought
Speaker 1: was really interesting. She says, I don't worry about the
Speaker 1: things I can control, and I've worked out what I
Speaker 1: can control of my life, and that's mostly things to
Speaker 1: do with me. I can control my grades and how
Speaker 1: while I do at school, if I work hard. I
Speaker 1: can control my social media. I can just be off
Speaker 1: it and choose what I want to be on. I
Speaker 1: can control this. So has gone out of their way
Speaker 1: to take control over the things they worry about, and
Speaker 1: then the things they worry about other things they have
Speaker 1: no control over, and that the world is filled with idiots,
Speaker 1: and I've said, you're just going to have to be
Speaker 1: a little bit of radical acceptance is going to be
Speaker 1: required there. But yeah, but completely different, so not so
Speaker 1: worried about the things directly in front of her that
Speaker 1: are about her. She's like, no, I'll just take control
Speaker 1: of those. But it's all the other things. The two
Speaker 1: quite different.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I think I relate to both those things.
Speaker 2: You know, it probably is no point to worrying about
Speaker 2: things you can't control, but I think we all full
Speaker 2: victim to it.
Speaker 3: Occasionally.
Speaker 1: That's what she does. She worries about all the things
Speaker 1: she can't control.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, I have a family member like that,
Speaker 2: and I don't really worry about them.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, they'll work it out.
Speaker 2: But I guess what we're trying to establish is what
Speaker 2: is it that we have We laid those foundations for
Speaker 2: those for the kids to make good decisions like that
Speaker 2: about what they can and can't control. What other forces
Speaker 2: are are there out there that we may not be
Speaker 2: able to relate to because of our agent stage, And
Speaker 2: what advice would we have for people going forward?
Speaker 1: Absolutely so today we're going to dive into the challenges
Speaker 1: young people are faith in today's world, how best to
Speaker 1: support them, especially if they're no longer under our roof
Speaker 1: or on the cusp of independence. So from sort of
Speaker 1: mental health, social media to belonging in academic pressure.
Speaker 2: So, as we mentioned, we so enjoyed this guest of
Speaker 2: advice around offsprings at all ages, and we've asked doctor
Speaker 2: Justin Colson to talk to us again. Justin is the
Speaker 2: founder of Happy Families dot com dot au and a
Speaker 2: leading parenting expert, international speaker and author of nine best
Speaker 2: selling parenting books. He's a pH d in psychology and
Speaker 2: provides evidence based strategies which we love here on the
Speaker 2: little things and advice for parents. And he's a parent
Speaker 2: of sex, so he's put it all to the test.
Speaker 2: Welcome Justin.
Speaker 4: It's so nice to be with you, Louise Francesca. Thanks
Speaker 4: for having you back. I'm properly stoked to be here.
Speaker 1: We're very excited to have you. Are nine best selling books.
Speaker 1: You'd be busy, haven't you.
Speaker 4: I've got another one coming out next year. It's about
Speaker 4: raising teenage boys.
Speaker 3: Oh we love that.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm so excited. As we're having this conversation. It's with
Speaker 4: the publisher. They're going through the manuscript and it's coming
Speaker 4: out early to mid next year, sort of May June
Speaker 4: next year. It's going to be called Boys. It's going
Speaker 4: to have my name all over the front of it.
Speaker 4: And I think it's probably the most important book that
Speaker 4: I've ever written.
Speaker 1: I think it potentially could be too, although the others
Speaker 1: have been also very important. Justin today we don't want
Speaker 1: to be talking for young people, but you know, a
Speaker 1: little bit of research does show that there seems to
Speaker 1: be some things around what young people are worrying about
Speaker 1: these days. And you know, today we're just sort of
Speaker 1: looking to support the people supporting the young people, I
Speaker 1: suppose in a sense. So shall we start maybe with
Speaker 1: kind of mental health, because I think last time we
Speaker 1: spoke to you about forty five percent of kids we're
Speaker 1: receiving a diagnosis of anxiety. I don't imagine that that
Speaker 1: has improved, But do you think we're rising to the
Speaker 1: occasion and meeting the need at these children?
Speaker 4: So this is a really provocative topic, and my views
Speaker 4: on this are a little bit left of center, right,
Speaker 4: My views of this are not in the mainstream, and
Speaker 4: I really come at this quite differently to how most
Speaker 4: people are coming at it. What do I mean by that?
Speaker 4: If I ask you if you're doing okay? Let's say've
Speaker 4: said this to your Francisca.
Speaker 5: Are you okay? Like you are you doing all right?
Speaker 4: You pause and you look at me and go, yeah,
Speaker 4: I think so, I'm like, no, really, like, deep down
Speaker 4: I want to have a prop conversation with your Francesca,
Speaker 4: you are you really okay? And so you start to
Speaker 4: search your soul, you search your heart, and you go, well,
Speaker 4: there are a few things. I'm like, let's talk about
Speaker 4: those things. And so you tell me that you're struggling
Speaker 4: with one of the kids, or you're struggling with something
Speaker 4: that's going on at work, or Louise has just been
Speaker 4: ticking you off for the last few weeks and you've
Speaker 4: had enough, right, And so the longer we dwell on this,
Speaker 4: the more I poke and prod and pry into your
Speaker 4: anxieties and your challenges and your sadnesses and your strife
Speaker 4: and turmoil and your adversity and the randness and volatility
Speaker 4: that the world has thrown at you. By the time
Speaker 4: that conversation's finished, you look at me and going, oh,
Speaker 4: my goodness, I just feel so refreshed, right, you're going,
Speaker 4: I'm exhausted, and unfortunately research this is not a popular
Speaker 4: thing to say, but research shows that our talk therapies
Speaker 4: are generally ineffective. There are some people who are helped
Speaker 4: sometimes buy them. So I'm not throwing the baby out
Speaker 4: with the bath. What I'm not saying it's all a
Speaker 4: waste of time or money. But unfortunately, what's happened is
Speaker 4: the more we talk about mental health problems, the more
Speaker 4: people we seem to find with mental health problems, the
Speaker 4: more money we pour into awareness raising, the more people
Speaker 4: become aware. And this is not meant to sound glib,
Speaker 4: it's not meant to sound lighthearted, but we worry too
Speaker 4: much about our worries and the surefire way, the guaranteed
Speaker 4: way to make somebody miserable, or to make yourself miserable,
Speaker 4: is to ruminate. The more you ruminate, the more you
Speaker 4: chew over the injustices of the world, or the inflationary
Speaker 4: crisis or the housing crisis, or the fact that all
Speaker 4: of the New Zealand's movie to Australia and there's no
Speaker 4: jobs anywhere, or the more you worry about how many
Speaker 4: kids have got anxiety, the worse it gets Now Again,
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that anxiety isn't real or depression isn't real.
Speaker 4: That's certainly not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is
Speaker 4: the more you talk about it, the more you find it.
Speaker 4: And unfortunately, we now have what I would consider to
Speaker 4: be strong I don't know if conclusive is always hard
Speaker 4: to say when it comes to science, because science has
Speaker 4: never actually concluded. But we have strong evidence that mental
Speaker 4: health interventions in school at a global scale creates more
Speaker 4: problems than it solves. That is, the mental health training
Speaker 4: that kids are getting in school is not reducing anxiety.
Speaker 5: We're seeing more of it.
Speaker 4: We're finding that investing more money into talk therapies is
Speaker 4: not reducing or curing mental health challenges. We are finding
Speaker 4: that it continued. It's plateaued in the last year or two.
Speaker 4: I mean, we've seen it going up and up and
Speaker 4: up and up for the last ten or fifteen years.
Speaker 4: It seems to have plateaued in the last year or two,
Speaker 4: which is I guess good news. But basically my position
Speaker 4: on this is there is so much goodness in the world,
Speaker 4: and if you focus on that, then you're going to
Speaker 4: typically find that life feels pretty good.
Speaker 5: There is a lot of badness.
Speaker 4: In the world as well, and if you focus on that,
Speaker 4: you're generally going to find that life is pretty bad.
Speaker 4: I do this activity when I'm doing my presentations in person.
Speaker 4: I just did one last night, and I get a
Speaker 4: broom handle, take the broom off the handle, and I
Speaker 4: just got a broom handle, and I.
Speaker 5: Ask for a volunteer.
Speaker 4: They come up to the front of the room and
Speaker 4: I asked them to balance the broom handle on their fingertips.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's light, so you can hold it on
Speaker 4: your fingertips. But the rule is you have to look
Speaker 4: at your fingertips while you're doing it. Now, if you
Speaker 4: try this later today, I guarantee you don't find this
Speaker 4: nearly impossible. Right you're looking at it fingertips. The broom
Speaker 4: handle's up there somewhere, and you look at your fingertips
Speaker 4: and the broomhandle goes every Usually it falls and clocks
Speaker 4: them on the forehead or something like that. It's very funny.
Speaker 4: Everyone has a laugh and that's okay. Now do it again,
Speaker 4: but this time to look at the top of the
Speaker 4: broom handle, so they stretch their fingers right out. They
Speaker 4: stretch their arm out, they put the broom handle on
Speaker 4: their fingertips, they look at the top and all of
Speaker 4: a sudden they can balance the broom handle on their
Speaker 4: fingertips and it doesn't clock anyone in the forehead. You
Speaker 4: gravitate where you look madts in life, and from a
Speaker 4: psychological point of view, if you are looking at your
Speaker 4: fingertips all the time, then you're going to bang into walks,
Speaker 4: You're going to have things clock you on the head.
Speaker 5: It's going to hurt.
Speaker 1: There's got to be a fine line there too, though
Speaker 1: it doesn't there justin because it's really important. We're also
Speaker 1: listening to our teenagers and listening to our kids and
Speaker 1: not just brushing off concerns or worries. Because there are kids, obviously,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, who genuinely do have anxiety or concerning depression.
Speaker 5: Or they've got things that they're worried about. You need
Speaker 5: to be hurt the right way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm so glad that you raised that, because I
Speaker 4: don't want this to be a glib dismissal of children's concerns,
Speaker 4: fears and worries.
Speaker 5: That's not helpful either.
Speaker 4: This is not polly you know, Pollyanna, the children's storybook
Speaker 4: with skipping through fields full of flowers and the sun's
Speaker 4: always shining and everything's always perfect.
Speaker 5: That's not real either.
Speaker 4: There's a really simple balance, and that is that when
Speaker 4: our children are having a hard time, we look at
Speaker 4: them and we make sure number one, that we're regulated
Speaker 4: in a good space to talk to them, and then
Speaker 4: number two, we say something along these lines. It sounds
Speaker 4: like this is pretty tough for you, and simply by
Speaker 4: saying that, our children going to go yeah. And so
Speaker 4: we can give them a hut and say do you
Speaker 4: want me to be with you and chat about it
Speaker 4: or I just want some space. That's the third thing
Speaker 4: to say, do you want me to be with you
Speaker 4: or do you just want some space? And sometimes our
Speaker 4: kids will say no, I just need you to leave
Speaker 4: me alone.
Speaker 5: So let them alone. I would recommend that you don't
Speaker 5: leave them alone with a screen.
Speaker 4: That's not going to be beneficial to them, that won't
Speaker 4: usually help, But just leave them alone because they've said
Speaker 4: I want some space, and so that's fine to leave
Speaker 4: you alone, but I'm going to check in on you again, surely,
Speaker 4: just to make sure you're okay.
Speaker 5: This is always them. Nope, they can come back to you.
Speaker 1: That is so true, and that's how things kind of
Speaker 1: tend to roll earn our household as well. They don't
Speaker 1: want me to fix that. They don't want me to
Speaker 1: tell them a whole lot of things to do to
Speaker 1: make things better or why don't you do this? They
Speaker 1: don't want to be told what to do or anything.
Speaker 1: They just want to be heard. And I kind of
Speaker 1: want to be understood and validated a little bit and
Speaker 1: fear to just support and kind of, as you say,
Speaker 1: love them no matter what.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so let's talk about that for just a sec.
Speaker 4: It's really really important. I look at relationships with our kids,
Speaker 4: in fact, with anybody like a bucket. Okay, So if
Speaker 4: you've got a bucket, you've got one or two things
Speaker 4: in the bucket. You've either got water in the bucket
Speaker 4: or you've got air in the bucket. Buckets are for
Speaker 4: carrying water, not air. So let's imagine that the water
Speaker 4: that goes into the bucket is connection. Okay, the relationship
Speaker 4: bucket should be full of connection. Connection. Here's my definition.
Speaker 4: This is important feeling seen, hurd and valued. So when
Speaker 4: you think about your time with your kids, how much
Speaker 4: time do they feel seen hurt and valued? And how
Speaker 4: much time do they feel something else? The air in
Speaker 4: the bucket is correction and direction. So water is connection.
Speaker 4: Air is correction and direction. Correction and direction is I
Speaker 4: know you're feeling down, but if you just did this,
Speaker 4: if you hadn't listened to me yesterday, what about this
Speaker 4: for a night. It's where we start telling them how
Speaker 4: to live their lives. It's where we say, your shoes,
Speaker 4: your bedrooms are mess, clean it up. I've asked you
Speaker 4: to do it for the last five days and I'm
Speaker 4: ready to crack. That's correction and direction, right. Connection is
Speaker 4: you seem to be having a tough time, Let's have
Speaker 4: a chat about this. Connection is where we see here
Speaker 4: and value them. So just pause and consider your day
Speaker 4: so far. What's your interaction with your kids been? Has
Speaker 4: it been correction and direction or has it been connection?
Speaker 4: How much water has gone into the relationship bucket?
Speaker 3: Mine?
Speaker 2: Mine has just been nothing but flowers and petals. And
Speaker 2: but I already got one child home and now and
Speaker 2: two have lived, and I can the quality of parenting
Speaker 2: that one child is getting now fast and fast is
Speaker 2: what the other do? I hope they're not listening, got
Speaker 2: but I'm sitting here grinding my a little bit, because
Speaker 2: you know, my children do have what I would call tells,
Speaker 2: and I just know something's kind of up. One of
Speaker 2: them gets like beside himself chatty for a while, and
Speaker 2: you go, he's kind of spiring a little, you know,
Speaker 2: and you do watch and wait, and then you just
Speaker 2: a gentle chickens. But it is a little bit harder
Speaker 2: when they're not under your roof. But you know, you
Speaker 2: are still the abyst person.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean by that?
Speaker 4: I do. I've got three who are in their twenties,
Speaker 4: one who's married with a baby, and two who are
Speaker 4: very much living their best lives now, and well, I
Speaker 4: just love how the relationship changes. And it does like
Speaker 4: anyone who's listening to this pod and going, oh my goodness,
Speaker 4: my kid's dropping me crazy. I've got an eleven year
Speaker 4: old and a seven year old and a thirteen year old,
Speaker 4: and I'm Reade's throddled them. I promise you, if you can,
Speaker 4: if you can hang onto that connection, if you can
Speaker 4: remember to put water in that bucket every day, one day,
Speaker 4: they grow through this and they come back to you
Speaker 4: in ways that are just delight and Louise, I even
Speaker 4: love that you're saying that there's these tells like this
Speaker 4: child of yours starts to get chatty. So when that happens,
Speaker 4: it's really really tempting as a parent. And this is
Speaker 4: actually I've mentioned three steps already, right, and be regulated
Speaker 4: yourself checking and so you seem to be having a
Speaker 4: tough time, and then offer your space or the presence,
Speaker 4: depending on what they need. The fourth thing is to
Speaker 4: just give them the space to to process what's going
Speaker 4: on a little bit. Sometimes I'll do that by chatting
Speaker 4: to you. Sometimes they'll do that by going for a
Speaker 4: walk or just laying in their room with their eyes
Speaker 4: closed and covering in their head with a pillow and
Speaker 4: need some ice cream. And then the last thing that
Speaker 4: you do is your problem solve. See I don't let
Speaker 4: them stay in it. It might be a day, it
Speaker 4: might be a week, but at some point you say,
Speaker 4: all right, we've had a bit of time to processes,
Speaker 4: but we need to talk about action steps.
Speaker 5: I'm here to support you. What are you thinking?
Speaker 4: And it's critical that you don't step in and start
Speaker 4: telling them what to do. Regardless of their age, whether
Speaker 4: they're three or twenty three. Your job is not two
Speaker 4: and you use this word before fix them. No one
Speaker 4: likes to be fixed. Instead, your job is to say, well,
Speaker 4: let's see if we can come some ideas. What are
Speaker 4: you thinking? And you just let them If they're stuck,
Speaker 4: you give them some time. But eventually, as a parent,
Speaker 4: you're like, I've actually got some ideas and you just
Speaker 4: want to give them the ideas. Here's what you do,
Speaker 4: you save them. I've got an idea that might be useful.
Speaker 4: Are you open to hearing it? You get their consent?
Speaker 4: Now do you need their consent?
Speaker 5: Of course not. You're their parents. You can say what
Speaker 5: you want.
Speaker 4: But when you ask for permission, then they open up
Speaker 4: their hearts to what you've got to say. When they
Speaker 4: say yes, please tell me now, they're receptive. If you
Speaker 4: just start telling them without that permission, they close down.
Speaker 5: They're like, you're saying I'm a problem.
Speaker 4: You're saying I don't have the confidence to fix this.
Speaker 4: As soon as you've got there, not of approval yet,
Speaker 4: please tell me. All of a sudden, they're going, hm,
Speaker 4: my parents might know something, and I'm willing and ready
Speaker 4: to listen.
Speaker 1: It's so true. We just had a situation last night actually,
Speaker 1: and my kid was pretty upset about some things and
Speaker 1: concerned about some things, and we just sort of lay
Speaker 1: they're a made a joke about if you had a
Speaker 1: bit of a laugh and a cuddle, and didn't really
Speaker 1: talk about her anything. And then after a while I said, look,
Speaker 1: there are some options, you know, if you want, you
Speaker 1: could do this and this, but you've go and have
Speaker 1: a think about it and let me know. Came back
Speaker 1: a few hours later, it had I think pretty much
Speaker 1: done that, like on the bed with a bill, IM
Speaker 1: over her how to think about it when actually I
Speaker 1: think that would be a good idea. Let's do that.
Speaker 1: And then if I do that, and it just she
Speaker 1: felt like she was taking control. There were her decisions,
Speaker 1: she made the you know, and it all sort of
Speaker 1: unfolded exactly like I thought it would.
Speaker 2: I do think, I do think there are some quite
Speaker 2: unique revelations to that come out when your children do
Speaker 2: leave home, especially if they've gone they're quite young, they're
Speaker 2: sort of eighteen, they've gone to university, so they're still dependent, right,
Speaker 2: but they have left time. I learned, to my horror
Speaker 2: that my child took everything I said as if it
Speaker 2: was an absolute God given truth. And I don't know
Speaker 2: how I didn't know that, but I kind of thought
Speaker 2: i'd tell her something, she'll form her own opinion.
Speaker 1: She didn't.
Speaker 2: She's like, no, Mums said this was a mistake, and
Speaker 2: now I think it's a mistake. And it was all
Speaker 2: too late by then that the decision had been made,
Speaker 2: the move had been made. Mums always said this was
Speaker 2: going to be a mistake, and it was a mistake.
Speaker 2: Now I didn't use those words it's going to be
Speaker 2: a mistake. I said, you had better decide this for yourself,
Speaker 2: because it's your life and you're going to have to
Speaker 2: live with the consequencesy of your decisions. And yet my
Speaker 2: sister said to me, who lives down in the town
Speaker 2: that my daughter's living, And she said, Louie, you've got
Speaker 2: to understand everything you say. She thinks it's true. Oh shit,
Speaker 2: do you think we're all making that mistake or is
Speaker 2: it just me?
Speaker 4: I think it really comes down to the individuals. Like
Speaker 4: some kids, you can say stuff and they won't believe
Speaker 4: it at all. Right, they really do think that you,
Speaker 4: as a parent have no idea what's going on in
Speaker 4: the world.
Speaker 5: And there are other kids.
Speaker 4: I've got a couple myself who they take what I'm
Speaker 4: saying literally, and so.
Speaker 5: It really depends on the child.
Speaker 4: It depends on your credibility with the child, how much
Speaker 4: they trust you. My definition of trust this is an
Speaker 4: important one t us just believing that the other person
Speaker 4: is going to act in your best interests. So, Luise,
Speaker 4: what's really going on here for you is that you've
Speaker 4: got this child who's saying, I trust my mum implicitly.
Speaker 4: I know that everything that my mum says is focused
Speaker 4: on my best interest. So therefore I'm going to take
Speaker 4: that on board and go with it. I'm just going
Speaker 4: to internalize it. It's in the bag. It's done really
Speaker 4: important that we're mindful that if our children do trust
Speaker 4: us to that level that we are. The technical term
Speaker 4: for this process that we've been describing over the last
Speaker 4: ten minutes or so is autonomy support, and so it's
Speaker 4: critically important that we support our kids autonomy. The more
Speaker 4: we do that, the more they develop their own values,
Speaker 4: the more they develop their own way of viewing, seeing,
Speaker 4: considering the world, their own perspectives on that, and that
Speaker 4: makes all the difference.
Speaker 5: When they're in a situation where they can't rely on us,
Speaker 5: they start to figure it out for themselves and that's
Speaker 5: the goal.
Speaker 1: Of course, it's not just their parents they listen to teenagers,
Speaker 1: but also their peers. And there's a lot of social concern,
Speaker 1: isn't there That they have a lot of concerns about
Speaker 1: fitting and about wearing the right thing, about you know,
Speaker 1: looking the right way in things, and that comes from
Speaker 1: you know, and probably I would imagine a lack of
Speaker 1: trust actually in their friends and their peers and things.
Speaker 1: As a parent, how do you sort of support your
Speaker 1: kids when they can be so swayed by their peers
Speaker 1: and what's happening around them in those kind of social environments.
Speaker 5: So there are two things that I want to pick
Speaker 5: up on here.
Speaker 4: First of all, you use the phrase fitting in, and
Speaker 4: our kids really do want to fit in. You imagine
Speaker 4: that you walk up to a group of people, they're
Speaker 4: standing in a circle, and you want to fit in.
Speaker 4: To fit in, you usually have to contort yourself somehow.
Speaker 4: You've got to get your shoulder in there, get your
Speaker 4: arm in there, You've got to sort of shove your
Speaker 4: body through, and eventually you might be able to fit in.
Speaker 4: Compare that term belonging, When you walk up to that
Speaker 4: circle and you belong the circle just opens up wide
Speaker 4: and you step into it, and that's where you are.
Speaker 5: My wife and I when we move from New South
Speaker 5: Wales to Queensland.
Speaker 4: And years ago, Kylie was sitting in the front seat
Speaker 4: of our car talking to her sister who lived nearby,
Speaker 4: and our little girl, who was at the time of
Speaker 4: maybe three or four years of age, Emily. She was
Speaker 4: sitting in the backseat and Kylie was complaining a little
Speaker 4: bit to her sister. She was saying, we've been here
Speaker 4: in Queensland for this many months now and I don't
Speaker 4: really quite feel like I fit in anywhere. I don't
Speaker 4: really feel like I'm in anyone's circle. And then she
Speaker 4: started mentioning all the different circles that she is, a
Speaker 4: middle aged woman was trying to work her way into.
Speaker 4: There was the school mums, we have a church community
Speaker 4: that we're a part of, and there's the neighborhood, and
Speaker 4: there's this, and there are four or five different circles,
Speaker 4: and she said, I just don't quite feel like I
Speaker 4: fit into any of the I don't feel like I'm
Speaker 4: really in any of these circles. And from the backseat
Speaker 4: of the car, my little four year old Emily says, mommy, you're.
Speaker 5: In my circle.
Speaker 3: Oh too cute.
Speaker 4: I know, but that really emphasizes the difference between fitting
Speaker 4: in and belonging, Like, you don't have to worry when
Speaker 4: you belong. And so when we see our children contorting themselves,
Speaker 4: hating themselves inside out to fit in, a conversation around
Speaker 4: fitting in versus belonging is in order. When you belong
Speaker 4: you don't need to change who you are. You don't
Speaker 4: need to consider your values, you don't need to betray
Speaker 4: your identity so that you can be part of what
Speaker 4: everyone else is doing. And so I encourage my kids
Speaker 4: to think to themselves, when I'm with these people, do
Speaker 4: I get to be who I truly am? Am I accepted?
Speaker 4: And do I feel like I get to be the
Speaker 4: best version of me when I'm around these people? And
Speaker 4: if not, then perhaps I'm trying to fit in somewhere
Speaker 4: that I don't actually belong.
Speaker 1: Requires bravery to do that, doesn't it.
Speaker 5: Oh it's so hard for a child, honestly.
Speaker 4: I mean, we talk all the time about kids and
Speaker 4: their mental health challenges.
Speaker 5: If you talk to a school psychologist.
Speaker 4: You talk to anybody who's working with children and young people,
Speaker 4: the overwhelming number one thing.
Speaker 5: It's not climate change.
Speaker 4: Kids aren't showing up in psychology clinics and saying the
Speaker 4: world's going to end, the nations are going to flood.
Speaker 4: That's not what they're saying. They're saying, I'm really struggling
Speaker 4: with my friends. That's what they're worried about.
Speaker 2: And that's exactly why we want to speak to you today,
Speaker 2: because that we want to get to the heart of
Speaker 2: those of what's really in front of our kids at
Speaker 2: this age and stage. And I think that's what I wish,
Speaker 2: and I know this is Pollyanna thinking, is just because
Speaker 2: I just think, well, they are must half the time,
Speaker 2: particularly in that university environment that go into the halls
Speaker 2: of residents and stuff. They're all contorting themselves and it's
Speaker 2: just like, let it go, guys. But then I guess
Speaker 2: we've all done it at some point and then we
Speaker 2: do fall naturally into those places where we belong or
Speaker 2: we need to go seek them out.
Speaker 5: It's both highlighting on this luise.
Speaker 4: Identity is developed through hardship, It's developed through bashing up
Speaker 4: against difficulties and values clashes. That's when you like when
Speaker 4: we talk about identity development, the adolescent and early adult
Speaker 4: years at a time where we forge our identity, where
Speaker 4: we develop the characteristics that will very much carry us
Speaker 4: through the remainder of our lives.
Speaker 5: It's a really and for time for identity development.
Speaker 4: From let's say twelve or thirteen through the twenty two
Speaker 4: or twenty three. I mean, we're all still developing as
Speaker 4: we age. You and I are going through our own
Speaker 4: identity development processes even now. But we are pretty much
Speaker 4: who we are, and we're usually pretty satisfied with that,
Speaker 4: and most of it comes from what happened in our
Speaker 4: teenage years and our early adult years. The way that
Speaker 4: you develop your identity is by having your values questioned
Speaker 4: and working out where you stand, and so that contorting
Speaker 4: and that trying to fit in and that, but what
Speaker 4: about and those mistakes that they'll make. That's a necessary
Speaker 4: part of working out who you are. Sometimes you don't
Speaker 4: realize that, Let's pick a really simple one. You don't
Speaker 4: realize that you value health until you get absolutely blotto
Speaker 4: on the weekend. You wake up with a hangover, you
Speaker 4: can't remember what you did, and you just think, actually,
Speaker 4: that's not who I am. You don't necessarily recognize the
Speaker 4: values that you have around friendships until you spend some
Speaker 4: time with people who who are disrespectful or who are
Speaker 4: deviant and delinquent and break things, and you're like, actually,
Speaker 4: is it not my people?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: So going through those those hard times is actually necessary
Speaker 4: to forge identity.
Speaker 5: We shouldn't be pushing our children into them. They'll find
Speaker 5: them on their own.
Speaker 4: But what matters then is that they've got they've got
Speaker 4: good examples around them of how life can be. And
Speaker 4: that's just a that's a joy to watch. I'm thinking
Speaker 4: of my son in law. We were not very impressed
Speaker 4: with my son in law when we first met him.
Speaker 5: When, oh my goodness, and I tried to talk.
Speaker 4: To him about something and he was quite disrespectful and
Speaker 4: insulting to me. He told me that I was kind
Speaker 4: of actually clueless. I might have book smarts, but I
Speaker 4: didn't have street smarts. He was very patronizing and really
Speaker 4: gave me a heart time, and I really wanted to
Speaker 4: punch him in the jaw, honestly. I mean that's how
Speaker 4: I felt. I'm a parenting expert. I'm not supposed to
Speaker 4: do that. I've got a PhD. Psychology, I know better,
Speaker 4: but I wanted to do it anyway. But I value
Speaker 4: peace and harmony. And so what's beautiful, though, is that
Speaker 4: over the years, as he's gotten to know us, he
Speaker 4: feels like our family is his family more than his
Speaker 4: family of origin, because over time he's realized, oh, hang,
Speaker 4: I no, I value that more than I value what
Speaker 4: I came from.
Speaker 5: And we have the.
Speaker 4: Most beautiful, rich, delightful, joyful relationship with our son in
Speaker 4: law now.
Speaker 5: And we could not have predicted.
Speaker 4: That eight years ago when we first met this guy,
Speaker 4: and I wanted to tackle him and put my shoulder
Speaker 4: into his sternham and drive him backwards through the jip
Speaker 4: rock wall behind him. Go Den, And it's all changed.
Speaker 4: And it's because over time, if your children have that relationship,
Speaker 4: if you can develop the trust, if you can build
Speaker 4: the connection, they will find themselves in circumstances and they
Speaker 4: think this seemed enticing, but it doesn't compare to what
Speaker 4: I found elsewhere. I value what I found elsewhere more
Speaker 4: than I value what I've got here with the boys
Speaker 4: or with the girls. And I'm going to leave this
Speaker 4: and go where I belong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've got to, I guess, have that courage
Speaker 2: of our convictions that we've given them the examples and
Speaker 2: the trust models and things like that whilst they've been
Speaker 2: living under our roof and with us for that time,
Speaker 2: that they'll go out and sort of model that at
Speaker 2: some point down the line when they've tried everything else
Speaker 2: and their life outside of the home.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what's that proverb?
Speaker 4: Train up a child in the way he should go,
Speaker 4: and when years old, he will not depart from it.
Speaker 1: There would go just And I'm really keen to talk
Speaker 1: to you about expectations because I think a lot of
Speaker 1: young people worry about the expectations that their parents have
Speaker 1: of them, or their teachers might have of them, that
Speaker 1: their friends might have of them. I have a child
Speaker 1: that required quite a lot of die and I was
Speaker 1: interested in the various different people that we spoke to
Speaker 1: the first questions to both myself and my child were
Speaker 1: about parental expectations, because they were pretty much telling me that,
Speaker 1: you know, the majority of anxiety in children is due
Speaker 1: to a parents' expectation. I was hugely relieved to see
Speaker 1: my daughter to shut them down and me letly go
Speaker 1: wrong path, that's not it. She has no expectations of
Speaker 1: yourselfe I've got a few, But I was sill hugely
Speaker 1: relieved about that. But I think as parents we don't
Speaker 1: want to often we don't admit maybe how much expectation
Speaker 1: we put on kids or you know that obviously we
Speaker 1: want our kids do well and to be living their
Speaker 1: best lives. And you know, but it's there, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Yeah it is.
Speaker 4: There's three kinds of perfectionism, and what we're really getting
Speaker 4: at here is this perfectionism idea. So first of all,
Speaker 4: was define perfectionism. Perfectionism is a kind of anxiety. The
Speaker 4: way that I define it, There are technical, academic definitions,
Speaker 4: but the way that I define perfectionism is perfectionism is
Speaker 4: the terror that our humanity will expose us as unlovable. Right,
Speaker 4: So if I feel that my mistakes, my humanness, my fallibility,
Speaker 4: will make me unlovable, then I struggle with perfectionism. Now,
Speaker 4: there are three types of perfectionism. That's what's known as
Speaker 4: self oriented perfectionism. This is where you've got these unrealistic
Speaker 4: self evaluations and you're really punitive to yourself, like I
Speaker 4: have to be perfect, I have to get it right,
Speaker 4: and we're putting it on ourselves. Francesco, what you were
Speaker 4: describing is known as socially prescribed perfectionism. That is that
Speaker 4: the social context is excessively demanding and other people are
Speaker 4: going to judge me harshly. I've got to get their approval.
Speaker 4: I have to meet their expectations. So the clinician working
Speaker 4: with your daughter is basically saying you on the receiving
Speaker 4: end of socially prescribed perfectionism and the people around you
Speaker 4: hammering you. And then there's a third kind, which is
Speaker 4: other oriented perfectionism. And that's when we are not necessarily
Speaker 4: perfectionistic ourselves, but we expect everyone around us to be perfect.
Speaker 4: Most of us struggle with other oriented perfectionism on the roads.
Speaker 1: Yes, totally, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: Now here's what's really interesting.
Speaker 4: I do a lot of work in very high achieving,
Speaker 4: high expectation schools, especially girls schools, and a lot of
Speaker 4: those girls are struggling with all three forms of perfectionism.
Speaker 4: They're struggling with self oriented perfectionism because they just expect
Speaker 4: so much of themselves have been taught to but they're
Speaker 4: also on the receiving end of other oriented perfectionism, and
Speaker 4: the teachers and the parents living embodiment of socially prescribed perfectionism.
Speaker 4: So this is usually the environment where we do see
Speaker 4: the most anxiety and where we do see the most depression,
Speaker 4: and we do see the most kids saying I can't
Speaker 4: go to school today and do that example that are
Speaker 4: all presentation because I'm so anxious and all the medical
Speaker 4: certificates start coming out and that kind of thing. I
Speaker 4: guess this sort of goes back to something that we
Speaker 4: talked about in the last conversation you and I had,
Speaker 4: where our kids need to know that.
Speaker 5: We love them no matter what.
Speaker 4: Those the three most important words that our kids can
Speaker 4: hear are not I love you, it's the next three,
Speaker 4: no matter what. So, if we go back to Francesca's question,
Speaker 4: the number one thing that kids complain about to struggle
Speaker 4: with with psychologists is their friendships.
Speaker 5: But one of the next most common responses to.
Speaker 4: Question as and surveys about why kids are anxious is
Speaker 4: the pressure that they're feeling to be more, do more,
Speaker 4: have more, and they often get that from their parents.
Speaker 4: And so by letting our kids know that they are
Speaker 4: loved no matter what, that they're making a contribution that
Speaker 4: they matter much more than the things or the accouterments
Speaker 4: of life they accumulate.
Speaker 5: That's I think.
Speaker 4: That's the central thing, right, that their value is not
Speaker 4: predic hated on their year thirteen results the university course
Speaker 4: that they get into the fact that they choose not
Speaker 4: to go to university at all. Right, I mean, we
Speaker 4: just put so much unnecessary pressure on them. Can I
Speaker 4: go on a two minute tangent?
Speaker 3: Go on?
Speaker 5: Okay, gap years, gap years.
Speaker 4: We put so much pressure on our kids to do
Speaker 4: really well as they finish high school so they can
Speaker 4: get it to university. Now, if you have a look
Speaker 4: at the population of either New Zealand or Australia, what
Speaker 4: we find is that in terms of adults with university degrees,
Speaker 4: it's about a third about a third of adults. What
Speaker 4: that tells me is that there are a lot of
Speaker 4: adults who are making meaningful contributions, raising families and having
Speaker 4: an impact on community in society that don't have university degrees.
Speaker 4: So can we please just get it in our heads
Speaker 4: that university is not the be all and end all. Moreover, moreover,
Speaker 4: university is than what they're doing today compared to what
Speaker 4: they used to do. Kids are not getting great educations
Speaker 4: at universities anymore.
Speaker 5: Is complicating that even further.
Speaker 4: So, what I encourage my kids to do is take
Speaker 4: gap years, multiple gap years, and so long as they
Speaker 4: are doing something productive. They're not allowed to sit around
Speaker 4: on the living room floor and scroll TikTok or play Fortnite.
Speaker 4: They have to be doing something. But so long as
Speaker 4: they are busy and active and producing, I wanted to
Speaker 4: take two or three gap years.
Speaker 5: What I found when I was a university lecturer is that.
Speaker 4: When a school leaver put up their hand to ask
Speaker 4: a question in a lecture or tutorial a university, the
Speaker 4: school leaver's question was almost always is this going to
Speaker 4: be an exam? But when a mature age student put
Speaker 4: up their hand, it was almost always can we go
Speaker 4: deeper on this?
Speaker 5: I really want to understand this.
Speaker 4: So university, in my opinion, university is not for kids.
Speaker 4: University is for adults, right because if you go to
Speaker 4: university as a kid, you've already done the ten years
Speaker 4: of school, you're over it and you just want to
Speaker 4: get through with life. But a mature age student who's
Speaker 4: gone back wants to get Uni through them so they
Speaker 4: can give more and make.
Speaker 5: More of life. That's a completely different mindset.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I like that, Rand. I'm a big supporter
Speaker 1: of the gap year and not feeling the need that
Speaker 1: you have to be able to know exactly what you're
Speaker 1: going to do for the rest of your life and
Speaker 1: find everyone else and just have some life experiences and things.
Speaker 4: Range and breadth leads to better outcomes, and the data
Speaker 4: on gap years is actually really compelling.
Speaker 5: People do better when they have gap years.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the little things and our guest on
Speaker 1: the podcast today is parenting expert and founder of Happy
Speaker 1: Families dot com dot au, doctor Justin Colson, talking about
Speaker 1: what our teens worry about and how we can help
Speaker 1: them navigate the world with Actually.
Speaker 2: Before the break, you were talking about gap years and
Speaker 2: knowing what they want and that you mentioned not allowed
Speaker 2: to sit around on the floor with your TikTok. You know,
Speaker 2: social media is the one thing that we didn't have,
Speaker 2: right so when we often say compare things to for
Speaker 2: our children for something that's happened to us, that is
Speaker 2: one thing that we didn't have in our day. As
Speaker 2: we often find ourselves saying, I talk to my kids
Speaker 2: about what they worry about, and one of the things
Speaker 2: they said was that social media used to be fun.
Speaker 2: Instagram used to be fun. Now it feels instructional, almost bossy,
Speaker 2: and definitely judgmental. And it's I'm now clicking that it
Speaker 2: may also fit into this perfectionism model, as that socially
Speaker 2: prescribed perfectionism. One of the things that my son say was,
Speaker 2: you know, you get these the algorithm sends you these
Speaker 2: videos of you know, everyone gets the same twenty four
Speaker 2: our days.
Speaker 1: What are you doing with yours?
Speaker 2: You know? And instead of being like, wow, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: it's the more you get it, the more you feel
Speaker 2: like a a loser. So, given it as something we
Speaker 2: didn't have, and perhaps we had it in different ways,
Speaker 2: I don't think we did. I don't remember anybody making
Speaker 2: the most of every second of the every day. How
Speaker 2: do we help them with that one? Any ideas?
Speaker 5: So I'm increasingly convinced.
Speaker 4: I mean I've flip flopped on this a lot over
Speaker 4: the years, but in the last two to three years
Speaker 4: I've really really settled as the research evidence has become
Speaker 4: increasingly compelling. I think that many, if not most, of
Speaker 4: the challenges that our young people are experiencing. Certainly, the
Speaker 4: growth in challenges that we've seen in terms of the
Speaker 4: exponential rise in mental health challenges has to be at
Speaker 4: least attributed in some measure to what's happening online. I
Speaker 4: think the Internet brings with it a host of benefits,
Speaker 4: but for our children and young people it is breathtakingly destructive.
Speaker 4: So the Australian government's decision two from December tenth, twenty
Speaker 4: twenty five, disallow children under the age of sixteen to
Speaker 4: have a social media account, is a really important step
Speaker 4: to recognizing that we have got some problems and the
Speaker 4: social media is at the core of it. Louis, your
Speaker 4: observation is a right, and young people are increasingly saying
Speaker 4: this is not helping us. But they can't get away
Speaker 4: from it. They don't know how to get away from it.
Speaker 4: It's just it is absolutely compelling, as so destructive. My
Speaker 4: central advice to young people who want high levels of
Speaker 4: well being in their lives is to disable as much
Speaker 4: of the Internet from your telephone as you can. So
Speaker 4: get rid of your social media accounts from and apps
Speaker 4: from your telephone, get rid of news websites and chat
Speaker 4: sites from your telephone. Just don't have your phone letting
Speaker 4: you do anything other than navigate, maybe listen to some
Speaker 4: music and make phone calls and texts.
Speaker 5: That's it.
Speaker 4: If you still want to have those accounts, by all
Speaker 4: means have them on your laptop, because you don't use
Speaker 4: your laptop the same way as you do your phone.
Speaker 4: But by reducing your access to those platforms, you will
Speaker 4: find that your wellbeing will increase. You'll find that you're
Speaker 4: less anxious, you're less drawn in, you're less compelled and addicted.
Speaker 4: It's just going to be better. As a fifty year
Speaker 4: old adult. I've made those decisions, and I cannot tell
Speaker 4: you how peaceful my life is because I don't have
Speaker 4: those accounts.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting because when I ask my kids, you
Speaker 1: know what they worry about? They had they both came
Speaker 1: back with quite different answers. And my daughter just looked
Speaker 1: at me like I'd ask the stupidest question because she's
Speaker 1: neurodivergent with anxiety, and she just went, well, everything, mum, everything.
Speaker 1: But then she made a really interesting point. She says,
Speaker 1: I no longer worry about the things I can control,
Speaker 1: So she doesn't worry about social media because she has
Speaker 1: made the decuse put so many restrictions in place that
Speaker 1: she only accesses what she wants, or people can only
Speaker 1: access from her, you know what she wants them to
Speaker 1: see she's taken control of that. She doesn't worry about
Speaker 1: her studies because she's like, I just take control of
Speaker 1: my study, and I work and I get the grades.
Speaker 1: It's not a problem. I just thought that was a
Speaker 1: really interesting perspective from her. If I can control it,
Speaker 1: I don't worry about it, and then she just worries
Speaker 1: about everything else, which generally has nothing to do with her.
Speaker 4: Now, I'm going to say something that I know is
Speaker 4: going to upset some people, and that's fine. That's just
Speaker 4: that's how life is. We're allowed to have different opinions
Speaker 4: and views. I can't control what's happening in Israel and Palestine.
Speaker 4: I can't control what's happening in Ukraine and Russia. I
Speaker 4: can't control who the President of the United States is,
Speaker 4: or the Prime Minister of New Zealand or Australia. I
Speaker 4: can't control those things, and so therefore I choose not
Speaker 4: to trouble my mind with them. Now, are there things
Speaker 4: that we should be upset about and worried about it
Speaker 4: in the world? I guess there probably are. But since
Speaker 4: I can't control those things, and since I have limited
Speaker 4: to zero leverage on any of those things, what I
Speaker 4: choose to do instead is I control what I can control,
Speaker 4: and you know what I can control. I can control
Speaker 4: how effectively you work with your children to help them
Speaker 4: feel supported and loved and to be raised resilient. I
Speaker 4: can control that, And I can control how I engage
Speaker 4: with my family. I can control how many books I'm
Speaker 4: writing and what I'm writing about. I can control those things.
Speaker 4: So I maintain a very loose, top level idea of
Speaker 4: what's going on in the world, because I think it
Speaker 4: is good to be somewhat informed, but I don't get
Speaker 4: caught up in it. And that's how you reduce anxiety
Speaker 4: by not worrying about what you aren't going to benefit
Speaker 4: from worrying about.
Speaker 3: You know, that's great advice.
Speaker 5: I know that it's a hot button topic. I have
Speaker 5: it the whole world.
Speaker 1: No, No, it probably makes sense.
Speaker 2: It's kind of a vice I probably need to hear
Speaker 2: about now. Yeah, I listened to way too many podcasts
Speaker 2: before the American election, knowing that the outcome would be
Speaker 2: what it was anyway, So what was the point? That's right,
Speaker 2: There are a couple of other topics we just wanted
Speaker 2: to head on. I guess we're running out of time,
Speaker 2: but like drugs and alcohol risky behavior basically drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 2: Is it the same as everything else? If we've set
Speaker 2: them up in the home with values and expectation, can
Speaker 2: we hope should we just hope that they take that
Speaker 2: out there when they leave.
Speaker 4: There's some good news here, and that is that young
Speaker 4: people are drinking and taking drugs less than they ever have.
Speaker 4: I mean, there's a little bit of a bump here
Speaker 4: and there, depending on which substance you're talking about, but
Speaker 4: generally speaking, the trend is downward, and it has been
Speaker 4: for about thirty or forty years, like compared to when
Speaker 4: we were being raised, kids are doing all of that
Speaker 4: a whole lot less. There's also a negative to that.
Speaker 4: It's because they're lonelier than ever. They're sitting at home
Speaker 4: on their screens, staring at TikTok and so the good
Speaker 4: news is they're not making the dumb decisions. The bad
Speaker 4: news is they're not out there with friends making the
Speaker 4: dumb decisions. So it's kind of a double edged sword here.
Speaker 4: Here's what we know about sensation seeking and impulse control.
Speaker 4: First of all, sons are much more liking to do
Speaker 4: dumb things than daughters.
Speaker 5: And now now we're talking about averages here.
Speaker 4: There are some very very risk averse boys and there
Speaker 4: are some very very highly sensation seeking girls.
Speaker 5: But generally speaking, that's the pattern that you'll find.
Speaker 4: Number Two, you'll find that kids are with their friends,
Speaker 4: they are much more likely to do dumb things versus when.
Speaker 5: They're on their own.
Speaker 4: So your friends matter, who you choose to spend time
Speaker 4: with is vitally important in terms of your safety and
Speaker 4: health outcomes. And Third, the conversations that we have with
Speaker 4: our kids are vitally important. So here's something that we
Speaker 4: do in our family. By the way, I'm making myself
Speaker 4: sound really perfect, I promise I make a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 4: But something that we do really really well in our
Speaker 4: family is every Sunday we sit down with our kids
Speaker 4: for a fifteen minute tricky talk. We talk about tough topics.
Speaker 4: It's tricky talks. It's tough topics. Every Sunday, it's fifteen minutes.
Speaker 4: The kids began when we started doing this, they would complain,
Speaker 4: they would roll their eyes, they would winge and moan.
Speaker 5: They hated it, hated it.
Speaker 4: And we would say, that's all right, We've got some
Speaker 4: treats on the table and it's only going to be
Speaker 4: fifteen minutes. And today the topic is pornography, or today
Speaker 4: the topic is consent, or today the topic is drinking alcohol,
Speaker 4: or today the topic is one day. When of the
Speaker 4: kids asked about STIs, it was a Friday and she said, Dad,
Speaker 4: what's an STI?
Speaker 5: Can we talk about STIs Sunday? Yeah?
Speaker 4: I said, you know what, Sunday is two days away
Speaker 4: and we've only got two minutes in the car. Now,
Speaker 4: how do you feel about that? We'll talk about it
Speaker 4: as a family And she's like, yeah, that'd be great.
Speaker 4: And so the kids all showed up for ready to
Speaker 4: talk about Sti's. And what's fascinating is that once the
Speaker 4: kids know that they're going to get a treat and
Speaker 4: we're gonna have a bit of a chat, and the
Speaker 4: expectation is that they will communicate during this. Once they
Speaker 4: get their head around and you've done it a few
Speaker 4: times and they realize that it's not scary, they look
Speaker 4: forward to it.
Speaker 5: The STI conversation ended up going for about forty five minutes.
Speaker 5: They didn't want it to stop.
Speaker 2: It's a really good conversation before they leave home.
Speaker 3: I'm telling you it.
Speaker 4: Is so and you get to say, so, what are
Speaker 4: your friends talking about, what's happening at school?
Speaker 5: What are you seeing online?
Speaker 4: You tell us what you're curious about, and then we'll
Speaker 4: bounce some ideas around. And then when they say, well
Speaker 4: what about this, she said, well what do you think?
Speaker 4: So this is not a parent lecture, this is a
Speaker 4: what do you think? And what are the ramifications? What's
Speaker 4: the outcome? What's downstream of that? And how could you
Speaker 4: be safe if that was to happen to you?
Speaker 5: What decisions can you?
Speaker 4: And so these conversations are literally conversations. And if the
Speaker 4: kids sit there and don't say anything and shrug their shoulders,
Speaker 4: you're like, guys, let's just enjoy the milkshake then, and
Speaker 4: we'll try this conversation again next week, like you can't
Speaker 4: coorse it. But once they know that this is a conversation,
Speaker 4: not a lecture, the conversations never go fifteen minutes and
Speaker 4: the kids start to look forward to it.
Speaker 1: I'm always intrigued when my kids pick up on deciding
Speaker 1: it so you can't, let's talk about that, and off
Speaker 1: they go. And I'm often the one that gets the
Speaker 1: point where I go, yeah, enough, it's all good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've done.
Speaker 1: We've nailed this, guys. Can we just guys get back
Speaker 1: to my book?
Speaker 3: This is great.
Speaker 1: Hey, Justin, I can't thank you enough. Always really appreciate
Speaker 1: your time. I know you're incredibly busy. Cannot wait for
Speaker 1: the new book.
Speaker 3: Boys.
Speaker 1: Just simply boys, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5: I haven't worked up the subtitle yet. Find it's on
Speaker 5: the shelves. There'll be a subtitle, but just boys.
Speaker 1: I think that sums it up quite well. Very easy
Speaker 1: to remember. Always always wonderful to talk. Thank you so
Speaker 1: so much, Thank you, Justin.
Speaker 5: You guys have got a great pod and it really
Speaker 5: has pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Thanks so much, so lovely to have
Speaker 1: Justin back on the podcast, Louise.
Speaker 2: Definitely, and right from the outset he set the tone
Speaker 2: really didn't he that we weren't yeah, we weren't going
Speaker 2: to sort of downward spiral into the worries of the world.
Speaker 2: It was more of a looking at the top end
Speaker 2: of the broom conversation, which I really enjoyed.
Speaker 1: I never tired of him talking about how to address
Speaker 1: tricky moments with teenagers and things, you know, starting with
Speaker 1: your regulate yourself, you check in, you give them space
Speaker 1: or give them space to process and the problems of
Speaker 1: I never get tired of hearing him talk about that.
Speaker 2: He's got that sort of that reassuring a tone as well,
Speaker 2: that you sort of we don't have to be perfect
Speaker 2: with perfectionism. In fact, it seems like it might be
Speaker 2: a bit of a myth. Myth his wrap up of
Speaker 2: that perfectionism thing. I found that really really useful. That's
Speaker 2: definitely a takeaway for me to think about when I'm parenting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I also think we recognize it in so
Speaker 1: many kids, right. Oh, God, you know, you look around
Speaker 1: at your kids, and you look around at all their
Speaker 1: friends and their mates and stuff like that, and those
Speaker 1: three versions of perfectionism you sort of could there are
Speaker 1: very good examples right in front of you. I think
Speaker 1: we could all probably.
Speaker 2: Oh, they applied to so many aspects of life. That
Speaker 2: and the other one was fitting in versus belonging. That
Speaker 2: was I don't know why that came as such a
Speaker 2: revelation because it's totally logical. But I haven't really thought
Speaker 2: about it like that before.
Speaker 1: No, but I still think the belonging is really hard.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 1: I think you have to be really brave to find
Speaker 1: that place where you belong and I think it can
Speaker 1: take a long time, and I think it can be
Speaker 1: a hard road to get there, and I don't think
Speaker 1: we should ever forget that.
Speaker 2: No, And I think that's why we do end up
Speaker 2: making fast friends with people and then a couple of
Speaker 2: months later coming well, you know, I'm talking about myself.
Speaker 2: Here was I thank you? You thought they were a
Speaker 2: bit off at the start. Prinches never happens. Never happens.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to hear more from Justin Happy Families
Speaker 1: dot com dot au. He's got the nine Box as well,
Speaker 1: and of course he's got boys coming next year as well,
Speaker 1: which will be very popular. Has he week been any
Speaker 1: moments of joy, well, revelations or apropos to what we've
Speaker 1: been talking about today. My son had an opportunity to
Speaker 1: go on the Spirit of New Zealand and even though
Speaker 1: gastro ripped through the boat, which sounded like a nightmare,
Speaker 1: it was exactly as Justin was talking. I just kept
Speaker 1: thinking about all the points that thing had. It seems
Speaker 1: crazy to have to take forty children away and lock
Speaker 1: their phones up, take them on the high season for
Speaker 1: them to connect, But connect they did, and find belonging.
Speaker 1: They did and probably found people that they didn't get
Speaker 1: along with, but they had to for a few days,
Speaker 1: it's right, So it kind of hits all those marks.
Speaker 1: I really really admire that trust for their perseverance in
Speaker 1: keeping that those that ship going uh and if you
Speaker 1: do get an opportunity to go on it, they help.
Speaker 1: They can help with funding and all sorts of things.
Speaker 1: So I do highly recommend it, not as a punishment,
Speaker 1: by the way, but as a as a as an
Speaker 1: opportunity to put put phones down, connect and do something
Speaker 1: useful punishment. I'd like to reiterate something that Justin said
Speaker 1: actually about you know, there's a there's that period where
Speaker 1: you look at your kids as they're sort of turning
Speaker 1: into tweens and teenagers, and you think, oh my godness,
Speaker 1: we're not all going to make you know, we're not
Speaker 1: all going to get through this alive. This is this
Speaker 1: is going to be, this is tough, this is fall
Speaker 1: on and he said that, you know, but those gorgeous
Speaker 1: young kids, you know, come back to you. And this
Speaker 1: week I've just noticed that one of my kids who
Speaker 1: you know, you try and encourage them sort of, you know,
Speaker 1: get organized and get things done. And then I just
Speaker 1: I've come to the conclusion You've told me this a
Speaker 1: lot that you know, some young adults will just get
Speaker 1: around to doing things when they actually have to, And
Speaker 1: I've just I've sat back and I was saying to
Speaker 1: get little frustrated, but then this week act Action Action
Speaker 1: stations and there's productivity and things are getting sorted and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll there you go.
Speaker 3: It happens.
Speaker 1: It happens. You just sometimes got to leave them to
Speaker 1: it to sort out their own their own things, and
Speaker 1: it gets a point where they've got to get it
Speaker 1: done and things get done. Yeah, and give you some
Speaker 1: a little bit of credit for this. So I'm just
Speaker 1: not going to worry about something which is not worth
Speaker 1: me worrying about. I'm gonna try, no doubt two o'clock
Speaker 1: one morning, it'll still it'll on your mind there.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Hey, thank you for joining us on our New Zealand
Speaker 1: Herald podcast series, The Little Things. We hope you share
Speaker 1: this podcast with the parents in your life so we
Speaker 1: can all have the tools to keep the conversations rolling,
Speaker 1: those tricky talks as our young people face their own
Speaker 1: challenges in the world.
Speaker 2: You can follow this podcast on iHeartRadio or wherever you
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and for more episodes from us on
Speaker 2: other topics, heat to insid Herald, dot co, dot zed
Speaker 2: and we'll catch you next time on the Little Things