1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: Kyoder Kirsten here one of the producers of the show 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: A Quick Content Morning. The series deals with abuse, including 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: child sexual abuse and domestic violence, so listen with care 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: and see our show notes for details of support services 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: if you need them. This podcast is funded by New 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: Zealand on Air. 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: In the church that Gayleen grew up in, they'd sometimes 8 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 2: do these things called firesides, no actual fires involved. Rather 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: it would be an evening meeting where a church leader 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: would speak on some topic or other and members, perhaps 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 2: a youth group, perhaps adults, would be encouraged to discuss 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: it and ask questions. Once, when Gayleen was in her early. 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 3: Teens, somewhere between twelve and fourteen, she. 14 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: Went to one of these firesides. This time there was 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: more than one speaker. 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 3: We went from room to room getting different lessons. 17 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: And in one room there was a lesson that is 18 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: really stuck in Gallen's memory. The bishop's who was leading 19 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: the discussion, had put a cake on a table at 20 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 2: the front of the room. It was quite the cake. 21 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 3: This really really beautiful looking, very white cake, and it 22 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 3: was almost sparkling with sugar crystals. 23 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,279 Speaker 2: The youth group knew that the theme of the lesson 24 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 2: was chastity, but the cake, They weren't sure what that 25 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: was about. 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 3: But then she said, who would like a piece? 27 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 2: Well, of course everyone wanted a piece. 28 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 3: But then she got this handful of dirt like dirt 29 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 3: from the ground and threw it all over the cake, 30 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: and she said, hoo, wants a piece of cake? And 31 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 3: no one then wanted a piece of cake. 32 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 2: So the cake you got this already is a metaphor. 33 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 3: She likened that to being pure and chaste and keeping 34 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 3: ourselves clean versus as somebody touched us inappropriately or kissed 35 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: us or anything. How then we wentn't clean and nobody 36 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 3: would ever want us. 37 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: That was forty years ago, but the memory has always 38 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: stayed with Gayleen. I mean, seeing an adult throw a 39 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: dirt over a cake is pretty memorable under any circumstances. 40 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: But the bigger point the bishop's wife was making was 41 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 2: that if you were impure, if you were unchased, if 42 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: you with a dirt spattered cake, you would be imperiling 43 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 2: your chances of getting into heaven. But missing out on heaven. 44 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: That was taking the long view. The more immediate incentive 45 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 2: to keep in line was that. 46 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 3: If you did make a mistake, you would end up 47 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 3: in the bishop's office. 48 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: And there were so many mistakes you could make in 49 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: this church, so many rules that could be broken. 50 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 4: Not to your coffee. 51 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 5: You don't if a swear you can't be involved in 52 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 5: six year relations before marriage. 53 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: Don't watch TV on Sunday. 54 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 2: This podcast is all about the Church of Jesus Christ 55 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: of Latter day Saints, the Mormons. You'll hear about the 56 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 2: things they leave. 57 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 3: The living can also be united with the deed. 58 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: You'll learn about the importance of service and obedience. 59 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 4: I was just a full on soldier for the church. 60 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: And the unbreakable commitments that people in the church make. 61 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 6: There is nothing that warrant breaking up our. 62 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: Family commitments that lead members to put the church first. 63 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: If the church gets embarrassed, I get embarrassed, no matter 64 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: the cost. 65 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 4: They did what I was supposed to do. 66 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 7: I told my bishop a church wouldn't deliberately put a 67 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 7: child in harm's way. 68 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 3: They kept insisting that I needed to forgive him. Not 69 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: just tell the helpline and they can make it all 70 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 3: go away. 71 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: Is this the LDS church abuse helpline speaking to this 72 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: is Heaven's Helpline. A six part New Zealand Herald investigation 73 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: into the Mormon Church in New Zealand, Episode one, The 74 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: Business of Saving Souls. Where are we We're heading on 75 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: to State Highway one, so we're in South Auckland or 76 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: heading into it, I should say. 77 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 1: And why are we here? 78 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 2: Because I'm going to show you the Mormon Temple, Adams 79 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: the Auckland Mormon Temple. This recordings from a couple of 80 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: months ago. I was with Adam Dudding, one of the 81 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: producers for this podcast. I wanted him to see what 82 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: I had been seeing every time I drove south of Auckland, 83 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: and every time I drove back and boom, there it is. 84 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 4: Okay, that is really absolutely stonkingly huge. 85 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been. It's been going up for a couple 86 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 2: of years now. Every time I drive to Hamilton and 87 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 2: come back to Auckland, I see it getting bigger and 88 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 2: bigger and bigger, and it's nearly done. I'm Murray Jones, 89 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 2: I'm an investigative journalist, and yeah, it's fair to say. 90 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 2: Over the past couple of years, the Church of Jesus 91 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: Christ of Latter day Saints, better known as the Mormons 92 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: or the LDS Church, has become a bit of an 93 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: obsession for me. The church its money, its vast new 94 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: Auckland Temple. But I think it's so noticeable right it's 95 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: put right up on the hill, It's looking over the 96 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: whole of Manico. It's really quite a big statement from 97 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 2: the church. You know, when I first started writing two 98 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: years ago, I didn't even know the Auckland Temple was 99 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: coming up. And then to the fact that this huge 100 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: temple is being built in the city I've been living in, 101 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 2: just as I've been introduced to the Mormons. This obsession 102 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: began not long after I arrived in New Zealand from 103 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: the UK. You might have spotted from my accent that 104 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: I'm not from around these parts. Originally I got a 105 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: contract to help Enzeme's business desk with a project looking 106 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: into charities and their money. Which ones are rich, where 107 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: does the money come from, how do they spend it? 108 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 2: That kind of thing, And really quickly it became obvious 109 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 2: that the LDS Church was worth a close look, because 110 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: it turns out they are mind bogglingly rich, and there 111 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: are all kinds of fascinating side issues around their wealth, 112 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: like the way they tithe ten percent of all their 113 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: members incomes, many of whom aren't all that rich. To 114 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: begin with, or the fact that they spend just a 115 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: tiny fraction of that tithe money on the kind of 116 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: things you might expect from a charity, you know, soup 117 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: kitchens or helping the homeless or running hospitals, or the 118 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 2: way that the Mormons have this huge focus on constructing 119 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 2: these extravagant and expensive temples all over the world, just 120 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: like the one in the south of Tarmaki, Mikodo. Anyone 121 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: who's driven or flown into Auckland in the past couple 122 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 2: of years will have noticed it. 123 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 8: Yeah. 124 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 4: I mean it's quite beautiful though, isn't it. 125 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just looking back at it now, you know, 126 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: the spy sort of goes up like a tin layer 127 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: wedding cake. Yeah, sixty meters. Although I was focused on 128 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 2: the New Zealand LDS Church, I couldn't ignore the global 129 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: wealth of the Mormons. They've got investments worth two hundred 130 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: and sixty billion dollars US. That's more than the annual 131 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 2: GDP of New Zealand. Anyway, when my articles came out, 132 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: well they've got a pretty big reaction. Online journalists like 133 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: to pretend that we don't read the comments on our stories, 134 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 2: but of course we do, and these ones were fascinating. 135 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: There were non religious readers outraged that churches have tax 136 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: free status at all. There were current members of the 137 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: church coming to its defense, saying that my articles were 138 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: a hit job by a so called journalist. But there 139 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: were also conversations kicking off in the comments that made 140 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: me realize there was more to say about Mormon money. 141 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: There were some heartbreaking accounts of the way tithing had 142 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: been really punishing for members. One woman talked about how 143 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: she still felt emotionally scarred by. 144 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 4: The realization that I could have provided my suicidal team 145 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 4: the specialist therapy the bishop refused to help pay for 146 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 4: if I hadn't been paying tithes for decades. 147 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 2: One woman talked about how she was asked by a 148 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: senior church leader. 149 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 5: To pay tithing on my student line because I was 150 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 5: receiving money. 151 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: Another woman, commenting from Salt Lake City, US, Utah, the 152 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: home of the Mormon faith, said she'd been led to 153 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 2: believe that if you pay tithing, the Lord will provide. 154 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: But funny, once we start paying tithing, we had enough 155 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 3: on our own. 156 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 2: What a scam. Reading all these I wanted to do 157 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: some follow up stories on the human cost of tithing 158 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: and also hear from more women, since most of the 159 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: people in my original Mormon Money articles were men. So 160 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 2: I sent messages to a dozen or serve of the 161 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: people who'd made comments. Would they be interested in telling 162 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 2: their stories in a bit more detail for a follow 163 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: up article. Half of those people got back to me. 164 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: Half of that half agreed to a phone call, and 165 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 2: one of those three people, well, she didn't want to 166 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: talk to me about tithing. She wanted to talk about 167 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: something much much darker. That first call lasted for a 168 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: couple of hours, and. 169 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 8: So you think you're the only one such disparate circus, 170 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 8: But that's the mentality are edit. 171 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 2: At time, And to be honest, it shook me. So 172 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: I have a bit a bit lostful words. 173 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 8: Yeah, it's not as it is hard to understand. 174 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: This woman who I'll be calling Caroline. So she had 175 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: been in the church for more than forty years before 176 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: finally leaving. Her story was one of betrayal. 177 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 8: You just trust that the leaders are going to take care. 178 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 2: Of them, trauma and denial. 179 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 8: I tap myself off from everything. I cut myself off 180 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 8: from the news, try to predict myself. 181 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 2: Of missed opportunities and cover ups. You said that people 182 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: knew he was predatory. Who knew and what did they know? 183 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: But talking to her also made me realize I needed 184 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: to be asking some very different questions about the church. Yes, 185 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: the church is rich, and sure it's important to look 186 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: closely at the bird and tithing places on some members. 187 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: But after talking to Caroline, it got me wondering about 188 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: things like who does the church value and who do 189 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: they see as expendable. 190 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 8: If you feel superior to somebody, it becomes real easy 191 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 8: to just say, oh, well, wouldn't have happened to my kid? 192 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: Who holds power in the church and how do they 193 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: use that power? 194 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 9: You ever think good that your family wants of you, 195 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 9: you have to get this person's approval. 196 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 6: The opportunity for abuse as a means. 197 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: And when things go wrong, when lives are ruined, when 198 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 2: families are torn apart, when crimes are committed, what will 199 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 2: the church do to keep things quiet? 200 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 6: Handle problem? 201 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: She'll it off, get the victim into figures. It would 202 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 2: be almost two years before some of those questions were answered. 203 00:10:58,280 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: And we are going to get to all of that. 204 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 2: And yes, we are going to come back to Caroline 205 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: and hear her whole story. But first we need just 206 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 2: a bit of context about this church. Where did it 207 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: come from and how did it make it over to 208 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 2: altai ROA. Mormon history is really fascinating. We're going to 209 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 2: give you the potted version here, but if you're keen 210 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: to understand more, then listen to our explainer episode in 211 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: the podcast feed. So in eighteen twenties New York State, 212 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: a young man called Joseph Smith had some religious visions 213 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: which told him not to follow any of the current 214 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: churches out there, but to set up his own instead. 215 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 2: The way Smith tells it, he was first visited by 216 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: God and Jesus. Then one night in eighteen twenty three, 217 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: an angel called Morone I appeared in his bedroom. 218 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 7: Standing in the air, for his feet did not touch 219 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 7: the floor. 220 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 2: Moroni showed Joseph the location of some golden plates that 221 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 2: were hidden near his home. 222 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 7: There was a book deposited written upon gold plates. 223 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 2: Under divine guidance, Smith translated the pages, and those translations 224 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 2: became what's known as the Book of Mormon. It has 225 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 2: a huge narrative spanning centuries, climaxing with Jesus visiting the 226 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: Americas after his resurrection. Smith was into polygamy, the practice 227 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 2: of men taking multiple wives. This would get the church 228 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: in trouble with wider American society, so they fled Westwoods 229 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: and set up shop in Salt Lake Valley, Utah, which 230 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 2: has remained the beating heart of the church ever since. 231 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 2: Just a quarter century after the Book of Mormon was published, 232 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: in the eighteen fifties, the first LDS missionaries arrived in 233 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 2: New Zealand. They had minimal success converting European settlers, so 234 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 2: turned their focus to Marii and it went really well. 235 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: Large numbers of Tanga to Fenua joined the church. There's 236 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 2: a number of reasons that people point to for this. Language, ancestry, polygamy, 237 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 2: and prophecies all played a part. But crucially, unlike European missionaries, 238 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: American Mormons weren't involved in the British crowns Land grabs. 239 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 2: But again we dive into these factors in the Explainer episode. 240 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: Whatever the specific reasons, though, the fact is Mormonism became 241 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: really big in Marydom. By the nineteen sixties, over sixty 242 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: percent of the membership of the LDS Church was Mardi. 243 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 2: So couldn't we go and can we go thing? Nope, 244 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: So only the most worthy of church members are allowed 245 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: to go in. It's where special rituals and ordinances happen. 246 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 2: So you've got your ceilings, which is your weddings, You've 247 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 2: got your baptism and they are dead. You've got your endowments, 248 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: So not anyone can just go in at any time. 249 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: It's only for special situations, ceremonies. 250 00:13:59,440 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 6: Watch out for the. 251 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: Temples are one of the most important symbols of faith 252 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: for Latter day Saints. Sure they have churches all over, 253 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 2: but temples are much more rare and much more special. 254 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 2: As I mentioned there to Adam, only those who are 255 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: deemed to be behaving well enough according to church doctrine 256 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: are allowed inside the temple. This new temple in the 257 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: south of Auckland will no doubt be a huge deal 258 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 2: to the many members living nearby. But if you wind 259 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: the clock back to the construction of this country's first 260 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 2: Mormon temple in nineteen fifty eight, well, it literally shifted 261 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: the landscape. 262 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 9: An American style suburb spraying from the swamp and Tui 263 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 9: Karamea became Temple View, a beautifully landscaped village, snugly and 264 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 9: closed by one thousand acres of church owned farmland. 265 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: That was from a nineteen seventy three documentary marveling at 266 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: how the church had built a self contained community in 267 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: the Waikato, centered around a brand new temple, a vast 268 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 2: white building with a sharp spire reaching for the sky. 269 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: This was just the eleventh Mormon temple in the world, 270 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: so it was a matter of enormous prestige and pride 271 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 2: for New Zealand Mormons. The school next door, Church College, 272 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 2: was a co ed secondary school that took borders and 273 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: day students. The temple, the school and the houses of 274 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 2: Temple View were all built by volunteers called labor missionaries. 275 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 2: Their mantra was Kiirhanga mortunu ake, build for eternity. 276 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 5: The labor missionaries were just ordinary people who were mostly 277 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 5: Maori being missionaries. 278 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: That's doctor Gina Colvin her father have been Mormon for generations, 279 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 2: and although Gina has been a vocal critic of the 280 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 2: church over the years, she's only recently left. The idea 281 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: of Temple View was to build a community where Mormon 282 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: family could flourish and look after each other. But for 283 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: some of the Mari among them, it was something even more. 284 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 5: You know, after generations of having your land and your 285 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 5: livelihood taken away from you through the confiscations and the 286 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 5: land grabs, and all of the agony and the traumas 287 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 5: that were as result of that. It was phenomenal, I think, 288 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 5: to be part of something that built something for Marii 289 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 5: and for their spiritual flourishing and their spiritual welfare. 290 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: Mormons flocked to live near the temple. Some came from 291 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: Pacific nations or from Australia, places which at that time 292 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: didn't have temples of their own. Remember Gayleen, the woman 293 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: who watched someone throw dirt all over a white cake 294 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: when she was a kid. Her family moved from Dunedin 295 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 2: to live near the new suburb. 296 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 3: We moved up here and that was different because like 297 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: there were Mormons everywhere. Like you'd go to the super market, 298 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 3: you'd bump into them. You'd walk down the road, you 299 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 3: bump into them. You wanted to talk to someone, and 300 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: it's just over your fencer, over the down the road. 301 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 3: They were everywhere. 302 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: Temple View is still a really distinctive place, although it's 303 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 2: much quieter since the school shut down in two thousand 304 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 2: and nine. The whole suburb, which is southwest of Hamilton City, 305 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 2: is a little bit eerie if you drive into it 306 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 2: without realizing what it is. A tiny land island of 307 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 2: suburbia centered around spotless white buildings in the middle of farmland. 308 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 2: There's around twelve hundred residents, and just about everyone that 309 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: lives there is a Mormon. For a very long time, 310 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: this really was the epicenter of Mormonism for the whole 311 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: of the Pacific region. Many of the people you'll meet 312 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 2: in this podcast lived in or near that suburb, or 313 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 2: studied at church college, or married their spouse at that temple. 314 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 2: But even though it's kind of a religious enclave, and 315 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 2: even though this is a really tight knit community, Mormons 316 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 2: haven't completely separate themselves from mainstream New Zealand. We've had 317 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 2: Mormon all Blacks, including Joonolomu Mahanonu and in the sixties 318 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 2: and seventies the Going Brothers Sid, Brian and Ken. We've 319 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 2: had Mormon Olympians including Valerie Adams and Joseph Parker. There 320 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 2: have been Mormon Miss New Zealand's. One of them made 321 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 2: it to the top seven in Miss World Miss New Zealand. 322 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 8: My name is Vicky Lee Humi. 323 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 9: I'm a student teacher and I'm studying English and education. 324 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 2: There are New Zealand judges who are Mormon. Mormon politicians. 325 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 2: I mean, our third most recent prime minister was a Mormon. 326 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 4: I was Mormon. 327 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 10: I lived in Mornsville, and while I loved politics, I 328 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 10: never ever dreamed I would work in it. 329 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 2: Ja cinder Ardern quit the church in her early twenties 330 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 2: for reasons we'll get to, but her family is still 331 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: very involved. Her uncle Ian is a senior leader and 332 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 2: was principal of Church College in the nineteen eighties. The 333 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 2: church has made a real effort to help the country 334 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: understand that they're pretty decent folk. Since the mid nineteen eighties, 335 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: the people of Temple View have put on their epic 336 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 2: Christmas Lights extravaganza, and around the same time in nineteen 337 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: eighty one, the church commissioned a documentary for the New 338 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 2: Zealand audience. 339 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 7: I've asked me to tell you a little bit about. 340 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: Themselves, narrated by five star gold plated New Zealand hero 341 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: Edmund Hillary, who, as you know, climbed Mount Everest before 342 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 2: anyone else. 343 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 7: Four the Mormons, the most important single unit in the 344 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 7: church is the family. 345 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 2: To be clear, Hillary was not a Mormon himself, but 346 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 2: as he put. 347 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 7: It, maybe they didn't convert me to anything, but I 348 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 7: couldn't help admiring their politeness and their sincerity. 349 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 2: Clean cut, family focused, hard working, polite, harmless. And that's 350 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 2: the space, more or less where Mormons of sat in 351 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 2: the eyes of non Mormon New Zealand for a good 352 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 2: half century or so. A minority religion, fifty four thousand 353 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 2: members according to the twenty eighteen census, closer to one 354 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty thousand according to the church's own figures, 355 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 2: a church whose followers here are mostly Maudi in Pacifica, 356 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 2: but a sizable minority of Pakia, with some doctrinal quirks 357 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: that make it a bit different from a lot of 358 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: other Christian churches, a bit old fashioned, a bit straight, 359 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: and sure outsiders might find some of their rules and 360 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 2: rituals a bit unusual, worthy of a bit of teasing, 361 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: Like in the TV show South Park. 362 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: That's another thing, Why do you have to be so 363 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: freaking nice all the time? 364 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 4: It isn't normal? 365 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 2: Or in the hit Broadway musical The Book of Mormon, 366 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: which was written incidentally by the creators of South Park. 367 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 4: That's a partner, then't Jackson Challi theory. 368 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 2: For this sketch from the mid nineteen eighties New Zealand 369 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: comedy Funny Business. 370 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 9: I don't drink coffee, I don't drink tea, and I enjoy. 371 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 4: Celibacy. 372 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 2: And I don't know if there's any connection between that 373 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 2: kind of teasing and the fact that around two thousand 374 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 2: and nine, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day 375 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 2: Saints started distancing itself from the label Mormon and insisted 376 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 2: that people refer to the religion as LDS or by 377 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 2: its full wordy title. Most members I spoke to still 378 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 2: referred to themselves as Mormons, even though it's no longer 379 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 2: the official line. 380 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 9: Norman Mormon. 381 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 2: But if the worst thing you're known for is your 382 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 2: straight laced faithfulness and your Christmas lights, then reputationally speaking, 383 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 2: you're not doing too badly, my dames, Elder Norman, after 384 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: the break your front dormant, Oh, we meet the door knockers. 385 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 2: For us non Mormons, the most likely way we've interacted 386 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: with a Mormon is when a couple of clean cut 387 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 2: young men in black suits and shiny shoes with a 388 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: little black name tag saying Elder Smith or Elder Jones 389 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 2: have turned up at our door. Maybe you've politely shut 390 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 2: the door. Maybe you've chatted on the doorstep for a bit. 391 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 8: National program call a family whole evening program. 392 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 2: Maybe you've invited them in. 393 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 9: That it's a pleasure for us to be with you tonight. 394 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: And just maybe you liked what you heard and ended 395 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 2: up joining their church. 396 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 4: When I was about five years old, two Mormon missionaries 397 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 4: knocked on my mum's door. 398 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 2: This is Marlin Dean, and. 399 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 4: My mum became interested in the messages that they head 400 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 4: to share and felt that the values and the principles 401 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 4: that the church had really resonated with her and aligned 402 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 4: with how she wanted to live her life and bring 403 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 4: up her family. As a consequence, she was starting to 404 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 4: attend to church. 405 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 2: This was the mid nineteen seventies. Marlin's father came on 406 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 2: board a couple of years later, so now the Deans 407 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 2: were Mormons. They lived in Wairoa, just down the road 408 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 2: from Newhacker, home to one of the oldest Mormon meeting 409 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 2: houses in the country, a majority Maori area with strong 410 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: historical connections to the church. When he was thirteen, Marlon 411 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 2: was sent off as a border to Church College. Remember 412 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: that's the Mormon high school, right next to the temple 413 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 2: on the fringes of Hamilton. For Marlin, this was life changing. 414 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 4: It was a massively positive experience for me, the highlight 415 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 4: of my life. You know, you get to connect with 416 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 4: youth from all around New Zealand. I was in a 417 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 4: dormitory was sixty to seven the other boys in so 418 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 4: from my years of being thirteen right eighteen, that was 419 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 4: my life. 420 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: Everything at Church College was geared towards the teachings of 421 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 2: the church, or the teachers were Mormons. There was extra 422 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 2: scripture study after school, and also because of the American influence, 423 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 2: they played a lot of basketball and they were really good. 424 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 2: At one point they won the national champs eight years 425 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 2: in a row. 426 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 4: My teammates were Mormon. My roommates were Mormon, so they 427 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 4: become your friends for life, and they still are friends 428 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 4: some respects today. 429 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 2: Gayleen, whose family had moved from Dunedin to be close 430 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 2: to the temple, she went to Church College too. 431 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 3: I always remember thinking, if I wanted a good academic grounding, 432 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 3: I probably shouldn't have gone to Church College. 433 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 2: But that kind of wasn't the point. 434 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 3: It was about building your spiritual. 435 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 2: Life and the building blocks of a spiritual life. Rules, 436 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 2: lots of rules, some around your schedule. 437 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 3: You don't watch TV on Sunday, you don't study on Sunday. 438 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 2: How you should speak. 439 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 3: You don't ever swear. You can't even use the word 440 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: peg because you might as well swear. That's saying something 441 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 3: bad to somebody. 442 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 2: What you eat and drink. 443 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 3: I don't know if you've heard about the Word of wisdom. 444 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: This is the law that says no ty coffee, alcohol, tobacco, 445 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 2: or illicit drugs. 446 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 3: And stitched on to the hot drinks was the idea 447 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 3: that one of the bad substances was caffeine and coke 448 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 3: haad caffeine. So that was commonly accepted as part of 449 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 3: the Word of Wisdom. 450 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 2: It's not bad advice. In fact, to study in Utah 451 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 2: showed that Mormons lived six and a half years longer 452 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 2: on average than non Mormons. But the rule that was 453 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 2: drilled home more than any other was how you should 454 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 2: absolutely keep to the law of chastity. 455 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 8: We're all striving to get married in the temple. And 456 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 8: if you ruin it once and you've spoiled your chance. 457 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 10: What do you do affect so much? The boy? 458 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 2: This is from a nineteen eighty documentary about the Mormon Church. 459 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 2: And this is a middle aged man speaking to a 460 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 2: teenage girl in a mixed gendered seminary class about how 461 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 2: girls should behave. 462 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 10: And the reason he's all over you is not necessarily 463 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 10: that he's that way inclined, but because you've stirred him 464 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 10: inside because of your shoulders, because of the way you 465 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 10: weigh your gris see through tops can do terrible things 466 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 10: to boys, They really can. 467 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 2: Gaileen says she took those childhood lessons really seriously and 468 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 2: carried them well into her adulthood. 469 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 3: I had to obey the rules with execness because I 470 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 3: was the black and white person, and I thought that 471 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 3: was good then. 472 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,479 Speaker 2: For both sporty Marlin and studious Galeen. Getting through school 473 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 2: was just the warm up act for the most important 474 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: act of service and rite of passage that a young 475 00:26:54,760 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 2: Mormon can do, going on a mission. Going on a 476 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 2: mission to knock on doors, to proselytize, to attempt to 477 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 2: convert non members is an absolute cornerstone of Mormon life. 478 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 2: The church estimates that since its founding, more than a 479 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 2: million Latter day Saints have served a full time mission. 480 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 2: You could think of it as being a bit like 481 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 2: military service. You're sent out into the world for up 482 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 2: to two years, quite possibly to another country, as a 483 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 2: kind of soldier of the Lord, doing a tour of duty. 484 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 2: It usually starts with a couple of weeks of what's 485 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 2: basically biblical boot camp would be door knockers attend a 486 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 2: missionary training center or empty seat where they learn the 487 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 2: rudiments of preaching the Gospel to total strangers. Then you're 488 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: off saving as many souls as you can. It's a 489 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: massive global operation and it helps the church grow. In 490 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, the year both Galen and Marln began their missions, 491 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 2: the church claims it converted more than three hundred thousand people, 492 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 2: a high watermark in church history. And for young Mormons themselves, 493 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 2: there's a chance to serve the church they love. 494 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 3: That showed that I was a good, faithful member of 495 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 3: the church, and that's what we were all striving to be. 496 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 2: And to make your family proud. And of course there's FOMO. 497 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 4: Some of my best friends were already out and they 498 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 4: were seeing leaders. They're saying they're in a great experience 499 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 4: Marlin again, and so you sort of think, well, what 500 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 4: else am I going to do? You can't just go 501 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 4: surfing by yourself. 502 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 2: Oh and did we mention you have to pay for 503 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 2: it yourself? 504 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 3: They recommended you, say, sixteen thousand. Back in those days 505 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 3: quite a. 506 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 2: Lot of money, and that was a lot. Marlin pulled 507 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: together the funds with help from its hard working family 508 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 2: plus a church sponsor. Gayleen scrimped and saved for years 509 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 2: so she'd be ready for her call to mission. And 510 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: sure enough, just as her last year at UNI wrapped up, 511 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: the call came destination Christ Church. 512 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 3: We had fifty five of us crammed into this little 513 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 3: mission training center. 514 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 2: Gayleien had always thought of herself as a pretty hardcore believer, 515 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 2: a rule follower, the righteous Mormon. 516 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 3: But when I got there there everyone's all righteous as well. 517 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 3: So I remember thinking, gosh, this really is the army 518 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 3: of the Lord. 519 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 2: And the Lord's army was busy. Once the training weeks 520 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 2: were over, the big door knocking days began. 521 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 3: You woke up at six thirty, half an hour ti 522 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: shower and make you study A seven. You would have 523 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 3: study for an hour, breakfall, breakfast, nine thirty year out 524 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 3: on the job. People in all day, an hour for 525 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 3: lunch and dinner. Yeah, to write in your due and 526 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 3: outdate the missionary records so very exhausting, and then you'd 527 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 3: go to bed and start it all again. And that 528 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 3: was five days a week oxxept for church on Sunday, 529 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 3: and then on a Monday you would have till six 530 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 3: o'clock to shop, to wash your clothes and clean your 531 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 3: house in that kind of thing. 532 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: That was called your preparation day or p day. But 533 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: it wasn't a full day off. After six pm you 534 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 2: had to head back out for an evening's proselytizing. Out 535 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 2: on mission, Gaileen discovered there was one more rule. 536 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 3: We weren't allowed to listen to any music that wasn't 537 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 3: put out by the church. Or we were allowed to 538 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 3: listen to a group called after Glown. 539 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 4: After Bellzeskin alone. It's a little bit scary design of 540 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 4: his work the Commandments. 541 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 2: Marlin started his mission the same year as Gaileen, but 542 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 2: he was called to Sydney, whose territory included pretty much 543 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 2: all of New South Wales. Rules differ from mission to mission, 544 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 2: and poor old Marlin wasn't even afforded the meager joys 545 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 2: of Afterglow At his MTC in Sydney. There was no 546 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: music allowed at all. 547 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 4: I love music, so that was really really hard for me. 548 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 2: He struggled with a lot of things at first, so. 549 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 4: I was very shy, didn't know what I was doing, 550 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 4: certainly didn't know any scriptures, so I was really raw 551 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 4: arriving into Sydney, and for the first part I was 552 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 4: just following the senior companion. 553 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 2: On your mission, you're assigned a companion and you cannot 554 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: leave their side. The pair of you is known as 555 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 2: a companionship. Every waking minute is spent with them. The 556 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 2: only time you're not in each other's eye line is 557 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 2: when one of you goes to the bathroom, and even 558 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 2: then your partner has to wait right outside. Marlon was 559 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 2: shy and was anxious about speaking in public, but he 560 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 2: compensated for that in other ways. 561 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 4: I have a capacity for work. My family are workers, 562 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 4: so worked in shearing sheds and out on the land. 563 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 4: I just figured I'm as well just work as hard 564 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 4: as I can. So I would knock doors all day, 565 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 4: every day until people tell me to go away, and 566 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 4: I wasn't afraid of doing that. 567 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 2: You can knock all you like, but it's hopeless unless 568 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 2: you're making some conversions. Marlon and his fellow missionaries had 569 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: monthly conversion targets, and they simply weren't meeting them. 570 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 4: We would maybe do seven to ten a month across 571 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 4: two hundred companionships. So we were struggling. 572 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 2: But then a new senior leader arrived at the mission, 573 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 2: and he quickly impressed Marlin. 574 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 4: He's a businessman, self made millionaire. He was very motivational, 575 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 4: he was charismatic. 576 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 2: This guy set wildly optimistic monthly targets. 577 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 4: Said well, we're not going to try to get to fifty, 578 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,959 Speaker 4: We're going to try to get towe hundred and fifty. 579 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 2: And he showed Marlin's cohort some tips for hitting those targets. 580 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 4: I thought, what the heckclimb as will apply those scripts 581 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 4: and those tools and techniques, and I was starting to 582 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 4: get success. 583 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 2: Scripts, tools, techniques. I'm intrigued. What does it take to 584 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 2: save a soul? As a journalist, I've introduced myself to 585 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 2: a fair number of strangers. Sometimes they're a bit hesitant 586 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 2: to talk to me, and I need to win them round. 587 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 2: But convincing someone to join your church, to experience a 588 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 2: spiritual conversion, to have a religious experience, that's a whole 589 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 2: another ballgame. But it was a skill. Marlon got down 590 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 2: to a t So here's how he did it. Perhaps 591 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: the most important step of all was the first one, preparation, 592 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 2: practicing and memorizing those scripts. 593 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 4: Marlon mentioned, we had a sequence of words, actions and 594 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 4: gestures that are designed to create an emotional connection. 595 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: And this included the way you talked. 596 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 4: Is a certain cadence and even winter pause. 597 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 2: So once you're actually on someone's doorstep and they haven't 598 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 2: slammed the door on you, where do you start? Well, 599 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 2: Marlon would start here. 600 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 4: We're messengers of Jesus Christ. We're here to talk about 601 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 4: the purpose of life. Where did I come from? Why 602 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 4: am I here? And where am I going after this 603 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 4: life is over? Have you ever wondered about the purpose 604 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 4: of life? 605 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 2: At the same time, would be trying to glean some 606 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 2: basic information. 607 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 4: Getting to know them. We would find out about what's 608 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 4: important to them and then match the message to what's 609 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 4: important to them emotionally. 610 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 2: So whether it will he acknowledges now that often it 611 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 2: was easier to make headway with people who were vulnerable 612 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:18,280 Speaker 2: in some sense. 613 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 4: Looking back, I think they were socioeconomically challenged a little bit. 614 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,439 Speaker 4: They were searching for support in their community, a little 615 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 4: bit isolated. People that are questioning what the purpose of 616 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 4: their life is that are experiencing some heartache, whether that's 617 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 4: some financial struggles, whether that's some loss of a loved one. 618 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 4: And I would tailor the message so I knew that 619 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 4: I would get a better result if I spoke on 620 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 4: the door about those types of things. 621 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 2: Next step, if the conversation was flowing, he'd lean into 622 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 2: those tough subjects, like if Marlon found out they'd recently 623 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 2: lost a loved one, he'd say. 624 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 4: You will see them again. If you endure to the end, 625 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 4: you will be with them together forever. How good would 626 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,359 Speaker 4: it feel for you to be with him and see 627 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 4: them again? Or he might get really specific with your daughter, 628 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 4: who's next to you, How would you feel if you 629 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 4: were to live forever with your wife and your daughter. 630 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 4: As we share these messages with you, you're going to 631 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 4: have feelings, feelings in your heart and in your mind. 632 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 2: I want to dig in for a moment to this 633 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 2: emotional triggering of the investigator. That's the missionary's term for 634 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 2: someone who hasn't closed the door on them. So Marlin 635 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 2: says he and his fellow missionaries became so confident that 636 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 2: they could evoke these kind of emotions that they'd even 637 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 2: warn them in advance that it was coming. A bit 638 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: like a stage magician who tells you to watch extra 639 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 2: closely because that coin in their hand is about to disappear, 640 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 2: but you still don't see how they did it. 641 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 4: So be sensitive to those feelings in your heart and 642 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 4: your mind as we share this message. Did we share 643 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 4: a message and we go, how do you feel in 644 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 4: your heart right now? And we were told pause and wait, 645 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 4: and then you would say these words, I feel peace 646 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,240 Speaker 4: and come in my heart. This feeling is the spirit 647 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 4: and it's the hole. He goes, telling us today that 648 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 4: what we've shared with you is true, that we are 649 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 4: messengers of Christ. Wow. 650 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 2: That pause so simple, Yeah for Marlon, so effective. And 651 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 2: the final step closing the deal, Marlon would invite the 652 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 2: investigator to make a specific date that would then move 653 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 2: them towards getting baptized and completing their conversion. 654 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 4: That was the most powerful time to get them to 655 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 4: make a commitment because they're feeling in an emotion. We 656 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 4: would attach the emotion to that as the spirit of 657 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 4: God confirming to you that this is the right thing 658 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 4: to do. I feel very strongly that the week of 659 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 4: the twenty fifth or whatever it was, give them a date. 660 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 4: That's what I'm feeling in my heart, and it must 661 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 4: be true because you're feeling it too, So that's how 662 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 4: I would set a date. 663 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 2: Just because Marlon had memorized the scripts and was acting 664 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 2: them out didn't mean he didn't believe in what he 665 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 2: was doing. 666 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 4: But I really felt I was a representative of Jesus Christ. 667 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 4: You're even told in your missionary commission to say and 668 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 4: do what He himself would say and do. If he 669 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 4: was talking to the very people to whom you are ministering. 670 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,479 Speaker 2: And if you're showing up for Team Jesus, you can't 671 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 2: exactly half ask it. 672 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 4: But I was representing Jesus, so I've got to give 673 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 4: it my best shot. So part of what we do 674 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 4: is crying as an emotion would be translated as feeling 675 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 4: the spirit. So my goal was to get the investigated 676 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 4: to cry, and if they cry, they buy. Was how 677 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 4: I viewed it. 678 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 2: It was exhilarating and Marlon worked hard. 679 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 4: It sounds delusional now, but I was like, even if 680 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 4: we were walking to the bust to the train station, 681 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 4: I was just talking to anyone because I felt I 682 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 4: had to save souls. And then to be able to 683 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 4: give an accounting by the end of my mission that 684 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 4: I fucking did as much as I could do. So 685 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 4: I was totally focused. I was just a full on 686 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 4: soldier for the church and loved it. 687 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 2: Marlins worked hard to memorize all scriptures, all the tactics 688 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 2: and scripts, and he's out there beating the streets, knocking 689 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 2: on doors. 690 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 4: I was just all in animal. 691 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 2: His relentless efforts and his knack with the pause paid dividends. 692 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 2: When he baptized three families in a single Sydney street mission, 693 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 2: leaders noticed and gave him a role training up newbies. 694 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 2: Now he'd become the guy he'd looked up to eighteen 695 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 2: months previous. 696 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 4: I'd take them out, knock on doors, show me how 697 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 4: to do it. I would teach them the scripts, do 698 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 4: the training. That was my life. I was the dude 699 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 4: on my mission. 700 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was Marlin's dude journey, a two year transition 701 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 2: from shay but hard working kid to an extraordinary salesman 702 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 2: for God. Once back in Hamilton, he also discovered there 703 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 2: were other ways to use his newfound skills. He moved 704 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 2: swiftly into a very successful career in sales for the 705 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 2: Fishing industry and media, and then selling gym memberships. 706 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 4: I was in Australia telling Australians you couldn't drink alcohol, smoke, 707 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 4: no drugs, no to your coffee, no sex before marriage, 708 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 4: and we'll take ten percent of your gross and I 709 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 4: was fairly decent at it. So to come home and 710 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 4: sell advertising space was perse easy to me. 711 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 2: It was uncanny how closely his work in the fitness 712 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 2: industry resembled what he'd done in Australia. 713 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 4: Same thing. Joining gym's losing weight? How many kilos? How 714 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 4: would you feel when you've lost that weight and you've 715 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 4: got to your wedding day? How good are you going 716 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 4: to feel at that moment? That's the time to ask 717 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 4: them to join. Let's start today, Let's get you started. 718 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 2: Marlin's experience is just one story. But at any given time, 719 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 2: there's more than fifty thousand young men and women out 720 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 2: there on their mission, knocking on doors in more than 721 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty countries and teaching in more than 722 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 2: sixty languages. It's a numbers game. The more people pounding 723 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 2: the pavement, the better the church's chances of growth, success 724 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 2: and stability. But that rings true for the individual Mormon 725 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 2: as well. Taking the jump as a youngster, doing what 726 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 2: the Church asks of you and completing your mission fundamentally 727 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 2: boosts your chances of getting all the good things in 728 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 2: life a young Mormon might want. If you complete your 729 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 2: two year mission, you can come back as an r M, 730 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 2: a returned missionary. Not to be too blunt, but this 731 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 2: means you are hot ship, especially when it comes to 732 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 2: the old courtship and marriage game, which you know is 733 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 2: meant to follow. 734 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 3: So for the boys, I guess that's like the badge 735 00:40:58,960 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 3: of honor. 736 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 2: We're back with Gaileen. 737 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 3: It's like the best thing you can do that would 738 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 3: make you an eligible bachelor. I for gilk Marian Irim, 739 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 3: that was what you were encouraged to strive for. I 740 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 3: remember my friend saying I don't necessarily want to marry 741 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 3: an Irim, and everyone goes ah, you know, because how 742 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 3: dash she say that out loud around us. None of 743 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 3: the other people in the room agreed with you. 744 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,879 Speaker 2: From the male RM's point of view, marriage after your 745 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 2: mission is just a no brainer. Here's how John someone 746 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 2: will meet properly. In the next episode, describes what happened 747 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 2: the moment he was back from his mission. 748 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 6: I did what all good Morments coming home from a 749 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 6: missions do. Look the round for a wife. It's just 750 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,839 Speaker 6: what you do. You don't think about the rationale behind it. 751 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 6: That's the next step. 752 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,280 Speaker 2: It's just the next step. But it's also the first 753 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 2: link in a chain of positive outcomes. Mission leads to marriage, 754 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 2: Marriage leads to children, and that puts you on the 755 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 2: first rung of a ladder of leadership roles and see 756 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 2: all your status and your significance in the community, as 757 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:04,879 Speaker 2: Gayleen puts it. 758 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 3: Building your way up the hierarchy of the church. If 759 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 3: you're an Ariam, that probably places you in a bit 760 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 3: of position to be a bishop and a state president 761 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 3: and then move on atthrinks. 762 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 2: So that's your Mormon life. One oh one. You've been 763 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 2: introduced to Joseph Smith. You know how the Mormons came 764 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 2: to New Zealand, and you've got a sense of what 765 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,800 Speaker 2: it was like to be an LDS child and teen 766 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 2: growing up in the late twentieth century. You've got a 767 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 2: flavor of Mormon life in Hamilton's Temple view, a tight 768 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 2: knit community with a sense of common purpose and identity, 769 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 2: and some clear guidelines about what makes a good life 770 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,760 Speaker 2: and a good Mormon, and you understand the way service 771 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 2: to the church can put your life on a trajectory 772 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 2: to success. 773 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 8: I was consisted that I've been commanded of God to 774 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 8: marry him, and I believed that. 775 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 2: But there's another version of Mormon life where growing up 776 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 2: in temple views surrounded by church members with a clear 777 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 2: life path set out in front of you. 778 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 8: Even though I didn't love them, I really wanted nothing 779 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 8: to do with them. I thought it was awful. 780 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 2: I thought it was just like my father could instead 781 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 2: lead to some very dark places. 782 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 8: It just goes higher and higher and it's not dealt 783 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,840 Speaker 8: and meanwhile these people continue abusing. 784 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 2: Next time on Heaven's Helpline. 785 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 8: I remember thinking, this is really really weird. The rituals 786 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 8: that are waving your hands there, taking clothes on and off. 787 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 6: What is this church I belonged to? It was something 788 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 6: off about here. 789 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,800 Speaker 3: Immediately I was never out of his sight for a moment. 790 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 6: I drove them to the woman's refuge, and you're not supposed. 791 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 3: To do that. 792 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 2: Heaven's Helpline was funded by New Zealand on air and 793 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 2: the New Zealand Herald endsed me and iHeartRadio. It was researched, 794 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,879 Speaker 2: written and presented by me Murray Jones. My producers were 795 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 2: Adam Dudding, who co wrote the series, and Kirsten Johnston 796 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,359 Speaker 2: from pop SoC Media, who edited and sound designed it. 797 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 2: Phil Brownlee is our sound engineer. Music was by Thomas 798 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 2: Arbur and Anita Clark. Archival audio came from TVNZED and rnzed. 799 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,720 Speaker 2: Ethan Sills is executive producer here at New Zealand Herald. 800 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 2: If you have a story you'd like to share with 801 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 2: me about the Olds Church, or just want to get 802 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 2: in touch, email me securely at Murray Reports at Proton 803 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 2: dot m or dm me on X at Murray Reports. 804 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 2: And for more on this podcast, head to nzedherld dot 805 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 2: co dot NZED slash Heaven's helpline. It's time intensive doing 806 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 2: investigations like this, so if you value this kind of journalism, 807 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 2: please support it by going to your podcast platform and 808 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 2: rate it and reviewing the series