Speaker 1: Yoda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. New
Speaker 1: Zealand police continue to monitor knife crime trends worldwide while
Speaker 1: other jurisdictions introduce tough new laws, getting ahead of the
Speaker 1: curve before it's too late. What they're monitoring is reported
Speaker 1: offending involving knife crime, the likes of serious assaults and
Speaker 1: aggravated robberies. Between December twenty twenty three and December twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four, there were just over sixteen hundred incidents involving
Speaker 1: a stabbing or cutting weapon, a one point seven percent
Speaker 1: decrease from the year before. But while New Zealand has
Speaker 1: not seen attacks like the Bondi Junction attack in Sydney,
Speaker 1: it hasn't been immune. Today on the Front Page, Acting
Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner Mike Pannett is with us to chat about
Speaker 1: what police doing to prevent knife crime here. But first off,
Speaker 1: South Australia hasn't seen any spikes in knife crime either,
Speaker 1: but that hasn't stopped the state introducing the toughest knife
Speaker 1: laws in the country. We're joined by South Australian Attorney
Speaker 1: General Kam mah to talk through the state's decision and
Speaker 1: what advice he would give for New Zealand law makers.
Speaker 1: Can you run me through what South Australia is doing
Speaker 1: when it comes to knife crime laws.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: We've had a good look right around Australia at different
Speaker 3: elements of what different jurisdictions do in terms of making
Speaker 3: the community safer in related to knife crime. And although
Speaker 3: South Australia hasn't seen some of the events that many
Speaker 3: people in New Zealand be familiar with, you o, the
Speaker 3: tragedy of bond DII Junction shopping center and knife crime
Speaker 3: particularly in the Eastern States. Although we haven't seen that
Speaker 3: in South throw we were keen to make sure we
Speaker 3: were doing everything we can. So we've had a look
Speaker 3: at what other states do and then a lot of
Speaker 3: work with the police in South Australia to put forward
Speaker 3: legislation that will be debated next week in the South
Speaker 3: Australian Parliament that would be the toughest knife crime laws
Speaker 3: in Australia and it really composes of sort of a
Speaker 3: whole lot of things, but in two broad categories. Firstly,
Speaker 3: it's making sure police have a whole lot of new
Speaker 3: power to detech people who might have knives, and that's
Speaker 3: the wand metal detectors being able to use them in
Speaker 3: a whole range of different settings without suspicion, which they
Speaker 3: can't at the moment, but also ways to restrict the
Speaker 3: availability of knives, and that will include things like a
Speaker 3: whole range of knives, needing secure storage in stores so
Speaker 3: they can't just be taken off a shelf, they have
Speaker 3: to be in a locked cabinet, and restricting without any exemptions,
Speaker 3: the sale of knives to people under the age of
Speaker 3: eighteen years and then further offenses for adults who supply
Speaker 3: knives to children.
Speaker 1: Has knife crime been increasing in recent years or has
Speaker 1: your government just decided to be ahead of the curb.
Speaker 3: We haven't seen any significant increase in knife crime in
Speaker 3: South Australia, but most outstraams probably witness with some degree
Speaker 3: of distress what we see in well publicized incidents, particularly
Speaker 3: in the Eastern States. We have had a tradition in
Speaker 3: South Australia having the toughest laws in Australia in relation
Speaker 3: to knife crime, so we wanted to make sure we
Speaker 3: keep up that mantle so that we're making South Australia
Speaker 3: as safe as possible.
Speaker 1: When you say, and I've had a look over the
Speaker 1: changes being implemented. When you say a license for people
Speaker 1: wishing to own certain types of knives, what are those?
Speaker 3: So, in addition to the measures in restricting supply giving
Speaker 3: police more powers, there will be certain types of knife
Speaker 3: type weapons that will become prohibited weapons, meaning you can't
Speaker 3: have them, things like swords and machetes. But then other
Speaker 3: sorts of knives you have, the sharp bladed knives that
Speaker 3: come to a point, will have significant restrictions on their sale.
Speaker 3: That is behind the lock cabinets, secure storage, signage in
Speaker 3: relation to those and signage in relations the offense of
Speaker 3: people under aiding buying them.
Speaker 1: Have you had any kickback from any groups when it
Speaker 1: comes to these laws. I know people here get pretty
Speaker 1: nervous whenever a frontline police are given any powers to
Speaker 1: kind of spot search in the lake.
Speaker 3: Look, there are elements who are always concerned when there
Speaker 3: are increased police powers. But this power to use those
Speaker 3: metal detector wands in a range of areas, and those
Speaker 3: sorts of areas are declared public transport hubs, declared shopping
Speaker 3: precincts of the police Commissioner can declare educational precincts like
Speaker 3: schools and other places, or any area where the police
Speaker 3: think there's a likelihood of violence or disorder. We haven't
Speaker 3: had too much concern about those police powers that there
Speaker 3: has been some concern raids from retailers who, of course
Speaker 3: we'll have this new obligation to make sure knives are
Speaker 3: securely stored, but we do that in South Australian relation
Speaker 3: to some other products. For example, for many years now
Speaker 3: spray paint cans have to be securely stored behind locked
Speaker 3: doors as an anti graffiti measure so they're not just stolen.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it is something we done in alareas. We
Speaker 3: think it's pretty reasonable. Yeah, given some of the incidents
Speaker 3: we've seen interstate in Australia that knives should be stored
Speaker 3: in the same way.
Speaker 4: The blood bath in Bondi began at three twenty on
Speaker 4: Saturday afternoon. Joel Cauchi drew a long blade from his
Speaker 4: backpack and started his rampage on Level tree of the
Speaker 4: shopping center. He stabbed multiple people before making his way
Speaker 4: to level four. As he climbed the escalator, he was
Speaker 4: confronted by a man with a Bollard. It was on
Speaker 4: this level he attacked several innocent shoppers, leaving carnage between
Speaker 4: Meyer and David Jones twenty five long minutes after the
Speaker 4: terror began. It would end with Amy Scott opening fire
Speaker 4: and stopping a murderer in his tracks.
Speaker 1: How did you land on some of these options? Did
Speaker 1: you consult overseas jurisdictions at all?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we primarily ran different Australian jurisdictions. All the states
Speaker 3: and territories have slight variations in relation to our criminal law,
Speaker 3: so I was looking what other states do. A lot
Speaker 3: of consultation with retail associations and the union that represents
Speaker 3: retail workers, but the biggest consultation and the input that
Speaker 3: was most valuable was from the South Australian police, who
Speaker 3: had a range of ideas about how the laws could work,
Speaker 3: how they could be implemented, and the power they need. But
Speaker 3: also those new restrictions on the sale of knife So
Speaker 3: I had a lot of work with police. I'm doing
Speaker 3: this too.
Speaker 1: What advice would you give the New Zealand government on
Speaker 1: how to go about knife crime laws because we're kind
Speaker 1: of in the same situation here as South Australia. Is
Speaker 1: that we haven't really seen an increase and there hasn't
Speaker 1: been too many there have been in the past. Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the new Lin terror attack down at
Speaker 1: Countdown in New LN. What kind of advice would you
Speaker 1: give legislators.
Speaker 3: Here, I reckon from our experience. We put a discussion
Speaker 3: paper out in August last year, had something like one
Speaker 3: hundred or so public submission, and as I said, a
Speaker 3: lot of interaction with law enforcement authorities. If I was
Speaker 3: giving advice, it would be that thorough consultation. A lot,
Speaker 3: about half of what we've now got in the bill
Speaker 3: went out for consultation and it was that process that
Speaker 3: threw up for you, as I said, from retail associations,
Speaker 3: from the police, new and better ways to protect the public,
Speaker 3: keep the community. So so that consultation piece was probably
Speaker 3: the most vergual part of how we arrived at while
Speaker 3: we arrived here in say.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, no problem whatsoever. After meeting with
Speaker 1: Australian counterparts last year, Police Minister Mark Mitchell raised concerns
Speaker 1: about increased levels of knife violence overseas with police here.
Speaker 1: He had asked police for advice on the matter and
Speaker 1: was pleased to find out they were working on a
Speaker 1: strategy to address it. I just want to make sure
Speaker 1: we are proactive and we do all that we can
Speaker 1: as a country to make sure that we don't end
Speaker 1: up in a situation like that, he said. But no
Speaker 1: such strategy exists. Police are only monitoring, keeping a close
Speaker 1: eye on what's happening overseas and will continue to closely
Speaker 1: monitor this. To chat about this, we speak with Acting
Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner Mike Pennett. So after our police minister visited
Speaker 1: Australia last year, he raised concerns about increased levels of
Speaker 1: knife crime overseas with police, he apparently was welcoming a
Speaker 1: strategy to address it. He told The Herald at the time.
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure that we're proactive and
Speaker 1: we do all that we can as a country to
Speaker 1: make sure that we don't end up in a situation
Speaker 1: like that and like that, I mean the Bondi incident
Speaker 1: in Sydney. Now has there been any work underway on
Speaker 1: a national knife crime strategy?
Speaker 2: So be working around knife crime and constantly keeping the
Speaker 2: Minister's office and our partner agents has performed for what
Speaker 2: the current position of knife crime is. By that, I'm
Speaker 2: referring to our reported offending involving life crime, but also
Speaker 2: what our staff on the street seeing, what having you start,
Speaker 2: whatever events staff is seeing, and also feedback from the.
Speaker 1: Community what are staff seeing on the street.
Speaker 2: So statistically wise, our life crime figures are actually relatively
Speaker 2: stable and have been over the last five years, but
Speaker 2: anincdobally we are very closely monitoring areas that have increased
Speaker 2: a little bit, and we're booking some of the city centers,
Speaker 2: particularly Auckland City Center, some of our provinces and in
Speaker 2: particular maybe a Hastings Hawks Bay area where we have
Speaker 2: seen us slight upturn in knife crime, but also noting
Speaker 2: the presence of knives and a number of robberies, and
Speaker 2: that's something that's probably gained chealthy and that we are
Speaker 2: seeing probably the emergence of knives slow the settings larger
Speaker 2: weapons being used in robberies. So we're very closely one
Speaker 2: and three that right.
Speaker 1: So there hasn't been any noticeable increase in NFE crime
Speaker 1: in New Zealand. What does that data look like?
Speaker 2: So at this stage we're just looking at our figures.
Speaker 2: We have had overall the consistency two in numbers. We're
Speaker 2: not seeing a huge increase in the national picture. But
Speaker 2: what we are probably acutely aware of is the exposure
Speaker 2: to a lot of our youth to the online platforms
Speaker 2: and social media that have another countries encouraged the carriage
Speaker 2: of knives and use of knives, and we are staying
Speaker 2: very connected to that. One of the initiatives that we
Speaker 2: have done, particularly with our be team stutying and often
Speaker 2: willing to equ is making them aware of the situation
Speaker 2: and monitoring on the streets our high risk areas in
Speaker 2: the central cities. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Look, I mean incredibly sad and just shocked, to be honest,
Speaker 5: and just thoughts are really with the family of the
Speaker 5: of the victim because you know, you know, they were
Speaker 5: just going about their everyday life, and you know, there
Speaker 5: could have been anyone in New Zealand. And I think
Speaker 5: that's why our New Zealanders will feel pretty confronted by
Speaker 5: by by this issue in this incident, because you know,
Speaker 5: there was someone trying to go about their daily life
Speaker 5: and and and lost their life, and that shouldn't happen
Speaker 5: in New Zealand. So you know, there's and I'm obviously
Speaker 5: an ongoing investigation. I can't talk too much about the
Speaker 5: specifics of that, but suffice to say, you know, we
Speaker 5: need to we need to think again about what more
Speaker 5: we can be doing.
Speaker 1: All right, So what are we seeing on online? Is
Speaker 1: that the likes of tektok or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think globally, and you've referenced it before,
Speaker 2: some of the Australian jurisdictions and the UK, for example,
Speaker 2: have had challenges with increased nighte crime and increased nine use.
Speaker 2: That's something we don't want to see happening. In New Zealand.
Speaker 2: Our police officers every day put the cyber or stab
Speaker 2: resistant on to go out and do their job. It's
Speaker 2: a cost reminder of knife crime, but it's also a
Speaker 2: cost reminder of the fact that we want to keep
Speaker 2: our seat stape, we want to keep our community scape
Speaker 2: and produce reduced victims of knife crime.
Speaker 1: So there hasn't been any noticeable increase in South Australia either,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen, but they've decided to bring in
Speaker 1: the toughest knife laws in the country, things like giving
Speaker 1: police greater powers to conduct wanding searchers at shopping centers
Speaker 1: and public transport, hubs and vehicles. And it also means
Speaker 1: shops would need to keep knives securely locked up. Should
Speaker 1: we look at similar laws here?
Speaker 2: I think that's part of what we're constantly looking at
Speaker 2: as and there's the two lens for that one. Firstly,
Speaker 2: it's around the reaction or how we police an increased
Speaker 2: use of life crime. You know, it's something some of
Speaker 2: the Australian europe have really experienced a lot more than
Speaker 2: New Zealand. But the ability to stop and search, the
Speaker 2: ability to warn, and the increase powers of search are
Speaker 2: something that they've moved towards. We are fortunate the States
Speaker 2: and that our statistic powers allow us to search under
Speaker 2: certain conditions and that the stages is working for us.
Speaker 6: Police said this man was a known threat and had
Speaker 6: been since twenty sixteen, which is why up until now
Speaker 6: had been under constant surveillance. It appairs all countdown and
Speaker 6: pharmacy staff have been evacuated. They were locked down in
Speaker 6: the mall here for quite some time.
Speaker 3: There's still a heavy.
Speaker 6: Police presence here. You can probably hear the Eagle helicopter
Speaker 6: overhead now and it looks like police will remain here
Speaker 6: for some time as they try to piece together just
Speaker 6: what happened.
Speaker 1: So New Zealand hasn't been immune to knife chrome though.
Speaker 1: I'm of course thinking about the Newlyn terror attack when
Speaker 1: an Islamic State supporter stabbed five shoppers in a frenzied
Speaker 1: attack before being shot dead at the Newlyn countdown in
Speaker 1: September twenty twenty one. He took a knife off the
Speaker 1: supermarket shelf, and just months before, four people were stabbed
Speaker 1: at a countdown in Dunedin. So despite not seeing a
Speaker 1: significant uptech in knife crime like others overseas have, we
Speaker 1: haven't been immune. So shouldn't we be ahead of the curve.
Speaker 2: Look, we are certainly working with retailers, we're certainly working
Speaker 2: with other agencies to make sure that we are aware
Speaker 2: of the dynamics of knife crime, but how lives can
Speaker 2: be used not only for terrorist events, but four attacks
Speaker 2: in the public places, crowded plases. We have a crowded
Speaker 2: places strategy in New Zialm which very much addresses the
Speaker 2: potential for a knife crime or a life attack. It's
Speaker 2: something that we are constantly monitoring. Museum Police has an
Speaker 2: evidence based policing capability that looks at their wild best
Speaker 2: practiced and informs us at two and we can go
Speaker 2: through legislators that we need to address life clime or change.
Speaker 1: In the law right, but that's just not anytime soon.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll constant model dev situation in the community and
Speaker 2: on the streets, and if we see that change environment,
Speaker 2: that rap tage, we will certainly be flagging it up
Speaker 2: and looking to addresser.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Thank you, Chelsea. That's it for
Speaker 1: this episode of the Front Page. You can read more
Speaker 1: about today's stories and extensive news coverage at NZDHERLD, dot
Speaker 1: co dot MZ. The Front Page is produced by Ethan
Speaker 1: Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer.
Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: or where do you get your podcasts, and tune in
Speaker 1: tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.