Speaker 1: The Zitim Podcast Network.
Speaker 2: People do not understand the severity of emotional distress when
Speaker 2: it comes to this disorder. You are who you are,
Speaker 2: You go through what you go through, and there's things
Speaker 2: that you can control, and there's things that you cannot.
Speaker 2: And the wisdom comes from knowing the difference.
Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, welcome back to Hope.
Speaker 3: It's for all the podcast Season three. We're at another episode,
Speaker 3: another week. I hope you've had a good week. I
Speaker 3: am so insanely excited about today's episode. I genuinely think
Speaker 3: this is one of my favorite episodes that I've ever recorded,
Speaker 3: one of my favorite interviews that I've ever done. I
Speaker 3: will give you pre warning. I cried a bit in
Speaker 3: this episode, purely because of how beautiful this guest was
Speaker 3: and her articulation of things. Doctor Courtney Tracy. She's a
Speaker 3: psychologist from America. You may have seen her on TikTok.
Speaker 3: But not only is she a psychologist, she's a psychologist
Speaker 3: who lives with borderline personality disorder. Now, if you yourself
Speaker 3: have borderline personality disorder, or you know anyone that does,
Speaker 3: you know that it is one of the most difficult,
Speaker 3: one of the most debilitating, one of the most misunderstood
Speaker 3: mental illnesses. And the way that Courtney was able to
Speaker 3: kind of talk about her experience as someone who lives
Speaker 3: with that has so incredible. It's so heartfelt, it's so
Speaker 3: eye opening, it's so beautiful, and it's also painful, and
Speaker 3: that's the reality of living with BPD.
Speaker 1: And I really.
Speaker 3: Hope that this episode, if you are someone who lives
Speaker 3: with BPD, that this is an episode that gives you hope,
Speaker 3: that helps you feel understood, that helps you feel heard,
Speaker 3: but also that she has this but has been able
Speaker 3: to go and live a full career. She learns how
Speaker 3: to manage and kind of deal with her day to
Speaker 3: day life. I was lucky enough to meet doctor Courtney
Speaker 3: when I was over in the US, and we recorded
Speaker 3: a kind of interview thing that we did for voices
Speaker 3: of hope and just hearing her. Then I was like, man,
Speaker 3: I need to get you on this podcast. I need
Speaker 3: you to be able to talk to these incredible listeners
Speaker 3: and to be able to share the story even widelier
Speaker 3: that's not even a word, even wider, but I genuinely
Speaker 3: believe that you're gonna get a lot out of this episode.
Speaker 3: So please, if you can stick around for it again.
Speaker 3: If you need to take a break at anytime, we'll
Speaker 3: talk to someone that's fully okay do that at any
Speaker 3: point in time. This episode does talk about suicide attempts,
Speaker 3: it does talk about self harm, and it does talk
Speaker 3: about both autism and obviously borderline personality as well.
Speaker 1: So please stick around.
Speaker 3: This episode is a good one, and coming up right
Speaker 3: after this, you'll hear doctor Courtney Tracy's story. Doctor Courtney Tracy,
Speaker 3: Welcome to Hope is real.
Speaker 1: First of all, how are you doing?
Speaker 4: Then?
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for having me. I am
Speaker 2: doing better than I have been for the last eighteen months.
Speaker 2: But I would have to say that I think there's
Speaker 2: still quite a with lots of exciting things and healing
Speaker 2: to come.
Speaker 1: I love how honest that answer is.
Speaker 3: I think in New Zealand we have this tendency to
Speaker 3: kind of almost script like, hey how are you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Good? Thanks? How you move on with your day?
Speaker 3: And people don't ever actually answer the question honestly, it's
Speaker 3: just kind of like scripted response, move on. And this
Speaker 3: whole podcast and conversation is literally around being open and
Speaker 3: honest and having these conversations. And the last time I
Speaker 3: saw you was in La. We were filming a campaign
Speaker 3: for voices, and you were very pregnant at the time.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was very pregnant and it was so hot
Speaker 2: that day. I felt like I was dying.
Speaker 3: It was so hot, and I had come from New
Speaker 3: Zealand winter as well, and I was like, I don't
Speaker 3: know what's going on. It was boiling in LA. But
Speaker 3: obviously kind of a lot has happened. You've had your kid, Yes,
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 1: How was it experience?
Speaker 2: I mean, well, the interview we had prior the pregnancy
Speaker 2: was a struggle, right, I became very depressed, etc. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure if we'll get into that on here. But
Speaker 2: now that she is her own being, she's almost eight
Speaker 2: months old, I get emotional immediately because that pregnancy, my second,
Speaker 2: was so different than my first, and I didn't expect
Speaker 2: to feel so wildly out of control, even though I
Speaker 2: lived most of my life in that state, I didn't
Speaker 2: see this coming, and so the pregnancy was horrible and
Speaker 2: the birth was pretty horrible. But I am joyful now
Speaker 2: and when she laughs, I'm so happy. And she loves
Speaker 2: me and I love her, and she will always be
Speaker 2: a testament to healing and to the work and I'm
Speaker 2: excited for when she grows up and learns how much
Speaker 2: it took for me to become her mother and how
Speaker 2: proud and happy I am of that.
Speaker 1: That's really beautiful. I really love that.
Speaker 3: And I mean just seeing you in La and even
Speaker 3: kind of hearing your experience after we did that interview
Speaker 3: and kind of being like, oh my gosh, like this
Speaker 3: so much almost is so much more. And I think
Speaker 3: it's so important that everyone knows that recovery is not linear,
Speaker 3: Like it's not just kind of you walk up one mountain,
Speaker 3: boom it's done.
Speaker 1: It's such a process.
Speaker 3: And I think your life and the way that you're
Speaker 3: able to articulate articulate that and be so honest as
Speaker 3: such a kind of evidence to that. And I would
Speaker 3: love to kind of jump back and well, I definitely
Speaker 3: want to talk further about your experience with this pregnancy,
Speaker 3: because it's a very big thing that I think a
Speaker 3: lot of mothers go through, and especially with the past
Speaker 3: history that you've had.
Speaker 1: But what was your life like growing up?
Speaker 2: That's a big question and one I've answered a lot
Speaker 2: over the last five years, and you know, it's changed
Speaker 2: over the last five years. And what I mean by
Speaker 2: that is I've healed a lot becoming a public figure.
Speaker 2: Maybe we can talk about that one day. I wonder
Speaker 2: if that's happened for you, well ups and downs, But
Speaker 2: it's I mean having borderline personality disorder, which is a
Speaker 2: difficult disorder that for one encompasses really not knowing who
Speaker 2: you are. Growing up, I had no idea who I was,
Speaker 2: and then becoming so known to millions of people, it
Speaker 2: forced me to develop myself more in different ways. But
Speaker 2: that was interesting because typically when somebody develops a sense
Speaker 2: of self, it's in childhood. It's in their upbringing and
Speaker 2: the way that they're mirrored by their parents and the
Speaker 2: way that they form hobbies and opinions through their peer friendships.
Speaker 2: And growing up for me was really difficult because I
Speaker 2: grew up with a single mom on welfare and food stamps,
Speaker 2: with an adult uncle who who has really severe autism,
Speaker 2: grandparents who had a fifties relationship, and I was exposed
Speaker 2: to a lot of mental health issues and substance use.
Speaker 2: And because of my neurodivergency mixed with my borderline, that's
Speaker 2: what I became. I became someone obsessed with substances and
Speaker 2: someone who was obsessed with psychology, but in the way
Speaker 2: where it told me why everybody else was messed up
Speaker 2: around me. I never used psychology to figure out how
Speaker 2: I could heal myself. And the last five years have
Speaker 2: really allowed me to reflect on my childhood in ways
Speaker 2: where I feel like I'm the parent I needed while
Speaker 2: becoming a parent to my own kids, I don't know
Speaker 2: that was a bit reflective, but it was hard. It
Speaker 2: was hard growing up. There wasn't money, and there wasn't stability,
Speaker 2: and it took a long time to.
Speaker 1: Crawl out of that.
Speaker 3: Just hearing you say becoming the parent that you needed
Speaker 3: and becoming just a person that you needed.
Speaker 1: Makes me so emotional.
Speaker 3: Like especially I think someone that has borderline personality disorder
Speaker 3: one is something that is so insanely stigmatized, and also
Speaker 3: a lot of people just fail to understand that that
Speaker 3: is something that is I mean, you're the professional here,
Speaker 3: but it's majority at the time rooted in childhood trauma, right,
Speaker 3: and stuff that was out of your control that is
Speaker 3: not your fault. And to kind of go through this
Speaker 3: whole process and then become the person that you needed,
Speaker 3: it's just it's so beautiful that you've been able to
Speaker 3: take that pain and that misunderstanding and all of the
Speaker 3: stigmas that come with it and the confusion, and it's
Speaker 3: one of the most painful mental illnesses to live with
Speaker 3: because of how stigmatized it is. What do you think
Speaker 3: were like the first symptoms for you that you had
Speaker 3: borderline personality disorder?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm still labeling some of the experiences
Speaker 2: that I've had in childhood as borderline symptoms the more
Speaker 2: I reflect and look back on it. But you know,
Speaker 2: self harm was a big thing for me growing up.
Speaker 2: But I used sex as self harm. I'm afraid of
Speaker 2: physical pain, but I'm not I'm afraid of my body
Speaker 2: being hurt, but I'm not afraid of my body causing
Speaker 2: my heart to be hurt. Like that just doesn't It
Speaker 2: didn't for a long time mean anything to me my body,
Speaker 2: and so I used that to harm myself. But there
Speaker 2: were instances of really intense binging substances, not being able
Speaker 2: to maintain stable relationships, lacking as sense of self and identity,
Speaker 2: having really intense anger control issues. It felt like I
Speaker 2: was the Tasmanian devil and I was so incredibly destructive.
Speaker 2: But what was interesting growing up was that there was
Speaker 2: this little space inside of me that was quiet, calm
Speaker 2: and scared, like so deeply afraid. And I masked that
Speaker 2: with the substances and the anger, and it was so
Speaker 2: clear that something was wrong, but I didn't have someone
Speaker 2: to tell me that, or to actually, I mean, I
Speaker 2: knew that, but I didn't have someone to tell me
Speaker 2: there's something you can do about it. I didn't feel
Speaker 2: seen growing up, and so I thought for a while
Speaker 2: that this was just me acting out. But it wasn't
Speaker 2: just a conscious choice to behave the way I was behaving.
Speaker 2: It was a wiring of my brain and my body
Speaker 2: and my mind that I didn't know could be potentially
Speaker 2: inescapable if I don't do if I didn't do something
Speaker 2: about it. Substance use, impulsivity, really intense anger would be
Speaker 2: the main things.
Speaker 3: During that the earlier kind of I guess teenage years
Speaker 3: were there moments where I guess, the specifically within the
Speaker 3: borderline personality and kind of everything else going on in
Speaker 3: your life where I don't want to use word exploded,
Speaker 3: but it kind of felt like, because I know that
Speaker 3: with specifically with borderline, your emotions are going like this, right,
Speaker 3: Like I remember reading that it's like someone living with
Speaker 3: third degree burns, Like the smallest touch feels so painful.
Speaker 1: What were moments like when it did.
Speaker 3: Feel so unbearably painful for you?
Speaker 2: You know, I've been trying to find words to describe
Speaker 2: that feeling. What's interesting is that if I say something
Speaker 2: like if you know, you know, then like the people
Speaker 2: that know no, but to try to describe something so
Speaker 2: incredibly devastating, it's like, hm, well, the outward impulses can
Speaker 2: seem like explosions, but what's happening inside is like, I mean,
Speaker 2: what's coming to my head is imagine that where you're
Speaker 2: standing on the earth, on the ground, your feet are
Speaker 2: on the ground. Suddenly the whole rest of the world
Speaker 2: comes apart from that surface that your feeder on, and
Speaker 2: it has every person you've ever loved on it, and
Speaker 2: then you just see them floating away into space. Like
Speaker 2: that's the feeling of loneliness that encompasses borderline personality disorder
Speaker 2: and getting emotional because people do not understand the severity
Speaker 2: of emotional distress when it comes to this disorder.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 2: It feels like the end of the universe, which is
Speaker 2: why the behaviors seem like you they they're acting as
Speaker 2: though someone's trying to kill them. They're in their worst
Speaker 2: possible state, in the most danger they could ever imagine,
Speaker 2: in the most scarce, isolative place possible. And the sad
Speaker 2: part is that the stigma solidifies that feeling.
Speaker 3: I the amount of young people that I see daily
Speaker 3: that struggle with this disorder that just is so stigmatized,
Speaker 3: And I wrote about it actually my first book that
Speaker 3: when I was younger, I was given the diagnosis of
Speaker 3: borderline personality disorder, and then as I got older, they
Speaker 3: realized that it was actually for me, it was a
Speaker 3: mix of the ADHD and PTSD because the symptoms were similar.
Speaker 3: But what I realized was that because I had this
Speaker 3: diagnosis and it was on my hospital files, whenever I
Speaker 3: went into the emergency room for a physical thing, I
Speaker 3: would be treated as if it was something going on
Speaker 3: mentally because this label was on my files and for
Speaker 3: people having to just live with that, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: I remember it happened. I had just won Young New
Speaker 3: Zealander of the Year for literally the journey that I
Speaker 3: took and been able to be well again. And I
Speaker 3: had this doctor who didn't believe anything because he saw
Speaker 3: my mental health history and that's for me, who had
Speaker 3: just kind of been like, Oh, she's got through it.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I can't even imagine for people that
Speaker 3: live with this and already feel like a burden and
Speaker 3: feel unlovable and feel all of these massive emotions to
Speaker 3: then just have this added stigma on top of it that,
Speaker 3: like you said, solidifies these beliefs that you already have.
Speaker 3: Is so now I'm going to cry. It's so heart
Speaker 3: wrenching that people have to live.
Speaker 1: Like that and it should never never be the case.
Speaker 3: What would you want to say to people that are
Speaker 3: listening to this that have borderline personality disorder?
Speaker 1: What do you want to say to them?
Speaker 2: I know that there's more to you. I know you're
Speaker 2: a human being. And when I think about you, I
Speaker 2: think about how the pain is a system in your
Speaker 2: brain and everything else is you. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's really important, because when someone sees the label, or
Speaker 2: someone sees the physical form of the person that has
Speaker 2: the label, they're not seen as a person with hobbies
Speaker 2: and dreams and favorite movies, and they're dances that embarrass
Speaker 2: them and the people that they've lost. And I see
Speaker 2: it all, and I think that if no one else
Speaker 2: ever says that to you. Please know that I am
Speaker 2: somewhere in the world and my perception of you is
Speaker 2: what you wish it could be from others. So please,
Speaker 2: I'm not the only person that will see you, So
Speaker 2: please believe me.
Speaker 1: I am. I think I'm so emotional because I.
Speaker 3: See this pain so deeply of people that live with this,
Speaker 3: and I've seen so many people lose their lives because
Speaker 3: they don't ever hear what you've just said, and they
Speaker 3: don't ever experience the people in their worlds showing them
Speaker 3: what you've just said.
Speaker 1: And I think it's I mean, we've.
Speaker 3: Tried for the last three seasons of this podcast to
Speaker 3: find someone who could talk about borderline personality disorder from
Speaker 3: this one.
Speaker 1: I think you're so.
Speaker 3: Incredibly articulate and graceful, and you've just been through hell
Speaker 3: with it.
Speaker 1: But to be able to sit there and.
Speaker 3: Articulate the way that you do and talk to these
Speaker 3: people the way that you do is something that I'm
Speaker 3: so grateful that the world has, and I know that
Speaker 3: the world was very close to not having that with you,
Speaker 3: which also makes me freaking emotional.
Speaker 1: Like you're here and people get to understand that there
Speaker 1: is hope because you exist.
Speaker 3: And when we did the Change your Mind into View,
Speaker 3: you were talking about a moment that was really really
Speaker 3: bad for you where you kind of were like you
Speaker 3: just didn't see any way out.
Speaker 1: Would you be willing to talk about that?
Speaker 2: Definitely, and thank you for everything that you've said. Creating
Speaker 2: a family is all I've ever wanted, and I'm a
Speaker 2: very ambitious woman. I tend to pile on really massive
Speaker 2: projects all at once, like opening up an entire treatment center,
Speaker 2: completing IVF and having a baby, completing a doctorate, and
Speaker 2: my licensure hours for my masters. I did all of
Speaker 2: that at the same time in twenty seventeen successfully, So
Speaker 2: I tried it again in twenty twenty three, where I
Speaker 2: did IVF, to have a baby, opened up a treatment center,
Speaker 2: and wrote my debut book. The problem was I am
Speaker 2: also autistic, and as we age, our sensitivity levels increase,
Speaker 2: our energy levels decrease naturally, not all the time, and
Speaker 2: I am not the same person. I've also been through
Speaker 2: a lot more trauma since twenty seventeen. But when I
Speaker 2: became pregnant, actually I should say I became pregnant three
Speaker 2: days after being diagnosed autistic. So for a year prior
Speaker 2: to that, I was struggling significantly. I was already really
Speaker 2: depressed and anxious. And being depressed and anxious when you
Speaker 2: are a mental health public figure, I'm sure you know,
Speaker 2: is very overwhelming.
Speaker 1: What do you show?
Speaker 2: What do you not show? What has a lesson in it?
Speaker 2: For people? What's just cathartic messiness? And I didn't know
Speaker 2: my place online. And when I was working to open
Speaker 2: my treatment center, it wasn't going well because I was
Speaker 2: so anxious and depressed. And when I became pregnant, I
Speaker 2: lost all sense of control. My body was no longer mine,
Speaker 2: and I struggled with a sense of self and mind.
Speaker 2: So I was trapped. I felt trapped, And after I
Speaker 2: received the diagnosis, my husband and I began to get
Speaker 2: into a lot of arguments because we were trying to
Speaker 2: figure out if my anxiety was simply anxiety, was a
Speaker 2: trauma response, was my borderline acting up? Was my autistic
Speaker 2: difficulties interpersonally? And I needed so much. I needed the
Speaker 2: most I've ever needed in my life. And I've been
Speaker 2: with my husband for eighteen years, nineteen years, and he's
Speaker 2: an amazing human being. But we didn't know what to
Speaker 2: do and we were down at the beach one day
Speaker 2: and we got into a really big argument, and you know,
Speaker 2: I said, when are you going to stop judging me? Now?
Speaker 2: Humans judge there's nothing we can do about it. And
Speaker 2: we were writing a book about this exact thing, and
Speaker 2: he said, I'm always going to judge you, and he
Speaker 2: meant it mean, and we had just in a section
Speaker 2: on how humans will judge no matter what there's nothing
Speaker 2: we can do about it. So he wasn't trying to
Speaker 2: trigger me, but it did. I didn't. I wasn't honest
Speaker 2: with him about where I was at. So he got
Speaker 2: out of the car and he went down to the
Speaker 2: beach with our son, and I stayed in the car
Speaker 2: and I had panic attacks and breakdowns, and I was pregnant.
Speaker 2: I think I was three or four months pregnant, and
Speaker 2: I just needed a pause, like really badly shaking, hyperventilating.
Speaker 2: So I called my best friend, who I never call.
Speaker 2: I don't. We talked through words that are written, she answered.
Speaker 2: She talked to me for an hour, and I kept
Speaker 2: playing in my head like this is what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 2: I can't handle this anymore. I'm not helping people online.
Speaker 2: My body's not mine, the business is working. There's no
Speaker 2: way I can write the book like the thoughts, the
Speaker 2: thoughts that make you believe it's not going to end,
Speaker 2: or the pain she talked me out of it. I
Speaker 2: kind of like that. I'm talking about this slow because
Speaker 2: when we had this last interview, I was breaking, really
Speaker 2: breaking down, crying. I feel like I'm a little more
Speaker 2: healed from it now. So I did not do what
Speaker 2: I was going to do that day, and it's been
Speaker 2: fifteen months since that day. I cannot believe it's been
Speaker 2: that long. The day that my daughter was born, I.
Speaker 4: Was so happy I stayed. I really can't believe that
Speaker 4: I almost didn't. And you know, I've.
Speaker 2: Seen people have active suicidality as a clinician often, and
Speaker 2: I've dealt with passive suicidality for decades. It's never been active.
Speaker 2: And I never quite understood the joy that came from
Speaker 2: knowing that you didn't do it until now. And I
Speaker 2: just want everybody to know that feeling. Everyone struggling. It's
Speaker 2: a really hard feeling to believe exists, but it does,
Speaker 2: and it's fascinating and it's better than you could ever imagine.
Speaker 3: I think this is the first time this season that
Speaker 3: I've really cried in an interview. But it's again just
Speaker 3: sitting here and seeing you and even seeing you now
Speaker 3: compared to last year when we sat down, and just
Speaker 3: the difference already in you, and just this light that
Speaker 3: has turned on of I'm here, Like, I'm so glad
Speaker 3: that I'm here. I mean, I know that even in
Speaker 3: that last interview, I was, you know, talking about again
Speaker 3: how phenomenal, phenomenal it is that you are so willing
Speaker 3: to speak about these things. But I really truly hope
Speaker 3: you understand the gravity of the path that you were
Speaker 3: laying for so many people that are struggling with this
Speaker 3: that feel like they're the only ones that feel like
Speaker 3: there is something just acutely wrong with them, and that
Speaker 3: this is it that they get to those points of
Speaker 3: this will never change, this pain will never end, and
Speaker 3: you today are just such an example and of hope
Speaker 3: that these people so desperately need. And I'm so incredibly
Speaker 3: thankful that you stayed. I'm so thankful you picked up
Speaker 3: the phone that day and that you were able to
Speaker 3: be here to bring your daughter into this world and
Speaker 3: to refine your strength again.
Speaker 1: And like you said, like recovery is a.
Speaker 3: Journey, right, Like there's still there's so much healing to go,
Speaker 3: and I'm on that same like, there's still so much
Speaker 3: healing that I have to do.
Speaker 1: But to get to that.
Speaker 3: Position of being thankful that you are still alive, that
Speaker 3: is the moment that is so worth fighting for.
Speaker 1: I yeah, I just oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: Courtney, you are such a phenomenal human and I would
Speaker 3: love to know what the process has been like for
Speaker 3: you from that day that you made that phone call
Speaker 3: to now being able to sit here and go I'm
Speaker 3: so happy I'm here.
Speaker 1: What was that procees? What happened?
Speaker 2: I struggled for quite a while after that day. You know,
Speaker 2: we had the interview a few months after, and then
Speaker 2: I watched that interview after it was posted, and then
Speaker 2: I stopped all social media, and I remember you reached
Speaker 2: out and you were like, excuse me, are you okay?
Speaker 2: Did we do something like? Are you what's wrong? And
Speaker 2: seeing myself explain the scariest moment of my life in
Speaker 2: the way that I described it made me feel like
Speaker 2: I had something special to offer and needed to take
Speaker 2: care of myself so that it didn't go anywhere. So
Speaker 2: thank you for that interview. It really changed my life,
Speaker 2: and I decided to try to do my treatment center.
Speaker 2: After I saw that interview, I had shut it down completely.
Speaker 2: I was working with a ghost writer for my debut book,
Speaker 2: and I decided that sh she couldn't write my story
Speaker 2: the way that I could, so I let her keep
Speaker 2: the money and I started all over from scratch and
Speaker 2: had my baby. So I guess what happened was I
Speaker 2: decided to live and to exist and to give it
Speaker 2: my all. And so I took a break and I've
Speaker 2: been slowly coming back. My business is open, my book
Speaker 2: cover was just revealed. My baby's turning eight months old,
Speaker 2: and I think I've just told myself the truth.
Speaker 1: You are who you are.
Speaker 2: You go through what you go through, and there's things
Speaker 2: that you can control, and there's things that you cannot,
Speaker 2: and the wisdom comes from knowing the difference. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: that's what my entire book is about. I wrote about
Speaker 2: what it means to feel wildly out of control, to
Speaker 2: have a diagnosis where people think you're insane and evil,
Speaker 2: and to be stable and good through it all.
Speaker 1: When does this book come out?
Speaker 2: The book comes out March eleventh, twenty twenty five and
Speaker 2: what's it called. It's called Your Unconscious is Showing and
Speaker 2: the subtitle is take Control of your life using the
Speaker 2: Twelve Steps of Consciousness.
Speaker 1: Wow, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: I everyone who is listening to this, I please whenever
Speaker 3: this comes out for pre order, pre order it.
Speaker 1: I remember doing it was your.
Speaker 3: Podcast so long ago, Like literally, I think we both
Speaker 3: had kind of really well babies in the social media space,
Speaker 3: like we're just kind of in those beginning stages, and
Speaker 3: you had your podcast was about that concept of the unconscious,
Speaker 3: and I think it was the first time that I
Speaker 3: had really thought about it in the way that you
Speaker 3: were articulating and began to be like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: like there's so many things of like these beliefs and
Speaker 3: behaviors that have developed that I'm just so in my mind,
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is everything that's wrong with me. But
Speaker 3: it was like these things developed at some point, and
Speaker 3: my brain has just been working over time to protect
Speaker 3: itself without me even knowing. And I'm really really excited
Speaker 3: to read this book, and I'm so glad that you
Speaker 3: wrote it yourself. I just think it makes it so
Speaker 3: much more powerful, especially because of the voice that you
Speaker 3: are and I know I've said it twelve million times
Speaker 3: in this interview, and I'll say it twelve million more
Speaker 3: times again because I just don't know if you realize
Speaker 3: how special you are and how many people your voice
Speaker 3: and your story and your openness just gives them that hope.
Speaker 3: And I also really love that you are a woman
Speaker 3: who is living with borderline and with autism and your
Speaker 3: experiences that you've had, and you've got your doctorate and
Speaker 3: you are opening treatment centers and you've written a book
Speaker 3: like you are the proof that your illness is not
Speaker 3: your identity and that you can live a full life,
Speaker 3: even though the statistics and the things that you see
Speaker 3: online about the fact that this will never go away
Speaker 3: because it makes people lose hope, right there's no treatment
Speaker 3: necessarily or pill to magic pilled it to change it,
Speaker 3: so people feel hopeless.
Speaker 1: And I just your life is.
Speaker 3: So evident that that's just this gues It gets so
Speaker 3: hard at times, and it is and ebbs and flows,
Speaker 3: but my goodness, you.
Speaker 1: Survive every day.
Speaker 3: You survive, and you live, and you write and you
Speaker 3: create places people to get help.
Speaker 1: Like you're just such a phenomenal person.
Speaker 3: And I will tell you that till the day I die,
Speaker 3: because you're just You're.
Speaker 1: Phenomenal, and I would love you if you could.
Speaker 3: I think kind of well, we've talked about a lot,
Speaker 3: and what we know to be true is that borderline
Speaker 3: personality is such a misunderstood illness, right, and I think
Speaker 3: for those who know someone in their immediate life who
Speaker 3: has it, it can be so confusing to understand the
Speaker 3: behaviors and the reactions and the responses, and kind.
Speaker 1: Of hard to get out of.
Speaker 3: I think attention seeking is often a stigma that is
Speaker 3: attached to this as well.
Speaker 1: I would love for you to be able to articulate to.
Speaker 3: People who have a loved one with borderline who don't
Speaker 3: understand from this lived experience point of view. Can you
Speaker 3: tell them the things that their loved ones want them
Speaker 3: to know, well, you know, wish for them to know,
Speaker 3: but maybe just don't know how to articulate it as
Speaker 3: they're in the middle of it.
Speaker 2: That's such a good question. We're sorry, it's very hard,
Speaker 2: and we did not ask for this, and we know
Speaker 2: that you didn't either. We hear you, and we know
Speaker 2: that you love us, and we know that we can
Speaker 2: be hurtful and we need your help. When people act
Speaker 2: in any way. There's a process that happens internally.
Speaker 5: The way that our body feels triggers the thoughts that
Speaker 5: our brains have, and the thoughts that our brains have
Speaker 5: create the.
Speaker 2: Stories that we tell ourselves. We were not taught how
Speaker 2: our body works. We were not taught how our brain works.
Speaker 2: We were not taught how our mind works. What we
Speaker 2: were taught is that we deserve and cause pain. And
Speaker 2: when that is all you know, you tend not to
Speaker 2: do the things that you would do if you knew more.
Speaker 2: So hold our hand, set your boundaries, and please give
Speaker 2: us a chance.
Speaker 3: I Oh, I don't even know what to say, except
Speaker 3: that just it was both so beautiful and so heart
Speaker 3: wrenching at the same time and so important. So thank
Speaker 3: you for taking the time to really think about that
Speaker 3: and to be able to articulate the things that so
Speaker 3: many can't and don't know how to. Your voice is
Speaker 3: so important and has just been able to clarify and
Speaker 3: almost just pull back the curtains to show what it
Speaker 3: is really like in a way that I know a
Speaker 3: lot of people want to be able to express but can't.
Speaker 1: And I would really love to ask you this last
Speaker 1: question before I let.
Speaker 3: You go as much. I mean, I want to talk
Speaker 3: to you all day, every day. I just this so
Speaker 3: much wisdom that comes from you. This podcast is called
Speaker 3: Hope Is Real and I asked this to everyone, but
Speaker 3: I really want to ask this to you. With everything
Speaker 3: that you've shared and all of your experiences, what does the.
Speaker 1: Word hope mean to you?
Speaker 2: You asked me this in the last interview, and I
Speaker 2: didn't have an answer at the time, and then I
Speaker 2: went and looked it up, was like, what is the
Speaker 2: typical definition? And honestly, my mind just went shit. I
Speaker 2: don't remember what it said, but I've been thinking about
Speaker 2: that since you asked. What's coming up for me is
Speaker 2: that I'm full of hope in a way that I
Speaker 2: never have been before. I think for me, hope is
Speaker 2: knowing that there's a way out, that you're not alone,
Speaker 2: and that things do get better. I'd argue to say
Speaker 2: that hope feels like love, because when I think of
Speaker 2: hope and the feeling that it gives me, it's the
Speaker 2: same feeling that my husband gives me. And as you
Speaker 2: can probably tell, i'm autistic in borderline right now when
Speaker 2: I'm a therapist and I'm still trying to decipher what
Speaker 2: love and hope feel like, you know, I do. I
Speaker 2: think I'm going to go with that, like, because hope
Speaker 2: is real, and what's real is that things can change
Speaker 2: and you're not alone and things get better. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm coming to It's like I have an
Speaker 2: answer to it. Maybe I want it to be more succinct,
Speaker 2: but I think what I find fascinating is that such
Speaker 2: a simple question, for such an articulate person can be
Speaker 2: such a stop sign, and maybe that means I have
Speaker 2: more hope to find.
Speaker 1: I also think that.
Speaker 3: What I'm the person who is sitting here on zoom
Speaker 3: in front of me right now, you and your life
Speaker 3: right now is the very definition of hope. I think
Speaker 3: that knowing your story and from even from the last
Speaker 3: interview to now, and the fact that you're still here
Speaker 3: and you are speaking the way that you are, you
Speaker 3: represent hope. And I think that's that's why I really
Speaker 3: and I know that I did ask you that in
Speaker 3: the last interview, and just like I said right at
Speaker 3: the beginning, this light has really turned on in you
Speaker 3: that you can see and this kind of grit of
Speaker 3: I'm going to stay and I'm going to be here,
Speaker 3: no matter what, and you're the way that you just are.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I just I think that you carry hope
Speaker 3: wherever you are and with every word that you have
Speaker 3: spoken on this podcast, hope has been there. And I
Speaker 3: think that, yeah, like you said, hope is a journey
Speaker 3: that maybe there's definitely always more hope to find. But
Speaker 3: I hope that you hope. I hope that you leave
Speaker 3: this interview really like, I really want you to understand that,
Speaker 3: like you you to me right now, this is hope,
Speaker 3: Like this is you look at your your eight month
Speaker 3: old daughter.
Speaker 1: That is hope. Yeah, Like it's the fact that Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I could go on and on and on,
Speaker 1: and I mean I really I.
Speaker 3: Need people to be able to get this book when
Speaker 3: it comes out.
Speaker 1: I just think that the wisdom that.
Speaker 3: You have is just so so needed in this world.
Speaker 3: And I mean, how can people find you on the
Speaker 3: socials as well?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You Well, my website is the Truthdoctor dot com and
Speaker 2: you can pre order my books there.
Speaker 1: Now, okay, we.
Speaker 3: Will put a link up on both in the show
Speaker 3: notes of this but also on our page when this
Speaker 3: interview comes up, So please everyone go order it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, And then my socials on TikTok, Instagram and
Speaker 2: YouTube and snapchat and LinkedIn are the Truth Doctor as well?
Speaker 2: And for the pre order, you can do that anywhere
Speaker 2: you can pre order books. I'll get better at that soon.
Speaker 1: Wait. Can I just ask where did the name the
Speaker 1: Truth Doctor come from?
Speaker 2: Well, the name the Truth Doctor came from. Actually I
Speaker 2: write about it in the book. The year that my
Speaker 2: son was turning one, I was finishing my doctorate and
Speaker 2: I was finishing my hours to become a licensed clinician.
Speaker 2: I went through a major family trauma publicly in front
Speaker 2: of my whole city as a treatment center owner and
Speaker 2: a therapist. It was a really big deal, and I
Speaker 2: started drowning myself in the stigma of mental health and
Speaker 2: substance use issues, and I caved. It was really bad.
Speaker 2: And then I decided that if someone was going to
Speaker 2: come out and show that therapists can be human beings,
Speaker 2: that human beings can struggle with mental health issues, therefore
Speaker 2: so can therapist. If anyone was going to do that,
Speaker 2: I wanted it to be me. So I talked to
Speaker 2: my husband and I said, I'm going to make a
Speaker 2: social media account and I'm going to tell it all
Speaker 2: all the time. The full truth, all of it, all
Speaker 2: my messiness, and he was like, okay, And I said,
Speaker 2: what should I name myself? And he said, you should
Speaker 2: name yourself the Truth doctor, because I've never met a
Speaker 2: woman that couldn't hold back saying it exactly the way
Speaker 2: that it is for the benefit of other people. And
Speaker 2: if there isn't another definition of the truth, doctor, and
Speaker 2: I don't know what is, so I made it the
Speaker 2: Truth doctor, and I made my mission to tell my
Speaker 2: truth to help other people tell theirs, and that that
Speaker 2: is my method appealing.
Speaker 1: I love that so much.
Speaker 3: And I'm just so thankful that you've taken the time
Speaker 3: to come on this podcast and to chat with me.
Speaker 1: Again for a second time.
Speaker 3: And I'm so glad that you have because I just
Speaker 3: been able to just see this growth from the last
Speaker 3: interview to this one is just so beautiful.
Speaker 1: And I know that you're you're very busy doing.
Speaker 3: The twelve million things that you do, and on top
Speaker 3: of it, your mind. I don't even have kids, and
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm constantly scrambling with the amount of
Speaker 3: stuff I'm doing. So thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 3: Is there any anything else that you want to say
Speaker 3: before I let you go? You can have a whole
Speaker 3: other hour if you will. I've you you just take
Speaker 3: the floor.
Speaker 2: I think I would just like to say that while
Speaker 2: I can be really deep, I can also be really fun.
Speaker 2: And so I want people to know that this or
Speaker 2: these very difficult conditions and disorders and the healing process
Speaker 2: from them does not have to be a drag or
Speaker 2: dreary or just feel like another nightmare on top of
Speaker 2: the one you were trying to get yourself out of.
Speaker 2: It can be fun and lighthearted and joyful. And that's
Speaker 2: the up and down that you've been talking about. And
Speaker 2: so just please keep that in mind to everyone listening,
Speaker 2: Like when you find yourself on the path of healing
Speaker 2: from borderline personality disorder and it just seems like it's
Speaker 2: always always work, that probably means you're coming close to
Speaker 2: it being a little fun. So stay in the game
Speaker 2: and remember that I see you and you can see me.
Speaker 2: Just come online and say hi.
Speaker 3: Oh that's so beautiful. Hey, thank you so much for
Speaker 3: coming on this podcast, and I hope that you have
Speaker 3: a good rest of your evening because it is now
Speaker 3: I know the time zone that we're.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is. Thank you so much, Jos, Thank.
Speaker 1: You well do you have it?
Speaker 3: Guys, thank you so much for staying and for listening
Speaker 3: to this episode. And like I've said at the beginning,
Speaker 3: and I always say, if anything in this episode that's
Speaker 3: been talked about has brought anything up for you, you
Speaker 3: feel like you need to talk to someone, then please
Speaker 3: remember and know that the bravest thing that you can
Speaker 3: do right now is to talk to someone, is to
Speaker 3: ask for help, whether that's from a friend, a family member,
Speaker 3: or if you don't know who to talk to, then
Speaker 3: if you live in Altaiola here you can call or
Speaker 3: text one seven three seven at any time to talk
Speaker 3: to a trained counselor. Or if you live overseas, go
Speaker 3: to dubdubdub dot the Voices of Hope dot org for
Speaker 3: a list of international helplines. Remember that no matter what
Speaker 3: it is that you're facing, no matter what it is
Speaker 3: that you're going through, that in all things, hope is
Speaker 3: real and change as possible.
Speaker 1: I'll see you guys next week