WEBVTT - Dr Courtney Tracey: Breaking the stigma around BPD 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:02.640 The Zitim Podcast Network. 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:10.840 People do not understand the severity of emotional distress when 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.560 it comes to this disorder. You are who you are, 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:15.800 You go through what you go through, and there's things 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.400 that you can control, and there's things that you cannot. 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:20.680 And the wisdom comes from knowing the difference. 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:25.440 Hi, everyone, welcome back to Hope. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.400 It's for all the podcast Season three. We're at another episode, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.920 another week. I hope you've had a good week. I 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:36.520 am so insanely excited about today's episode. I genuinely think 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:39.240 this is one of my favorite episodes that I've ever recorded, 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.440 one of my favorite interviews that I've ever done. I 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.199 will give you pre warning. I cried a bit in 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.879 this episode, purely because of how beautiful this guest was 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:53.479 and her articulation of things. Doctor Courtney Tracy. She's a 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:55.960 psychologist from America. You may have seen her on TikTok. 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.080 But not only is she a psychologist, she's a psychologist 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.600 who lives with borderline personality disorder. Now, if you yourself 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.760 have borderline personality disorder, or you know anyone that does, 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.720 you know that it is one of the most difficult, 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.040 one of the most debilitating, one of the most misunderstood 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:17.880 mental illnesses. And the way that Courtney was able to 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.360 kind of talk about her experience as someone who lives 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:25.520 with that has so incredible. It's so heartfelt, it's so 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.560 eye opening, it's so beautiful, and it's also painful, and 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:31.680 that's the reality of living with BPD. 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:32.720 And I really. 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.600 Hope that this episode, if you are someone who lives 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.280 with BPD, that this is an episode that gives you hope, 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:42.199 that helps you feel understood, that helps you feel heard, 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.960 but also that she has this but has been able 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.920 to go and live a full career. She learns how 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:49.560 to manage and kind of deal with her day to 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.800 day life. I was lucky enough to meet doctor Courtney 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.080 when I was over in the US, and we recorded 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:58.520 a kind of interview thing that we did for voices 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.880 of hope and just hearing her. Then I was like, man, 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:03.760 I need to get you on this podcast. I need 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.640 you to be able to talk to these incredible listeners 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.560 and to be able to share the story even widelier 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.320 that's not even a word, even wider, but I genuinely 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:15.720 believe that you're gonna get a lot out of this episode. 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.680 So please, if you can stick around for it again. 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:21.520 If you need to take a break at anytime, we'll 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.000 talk to someone that's fully okay do that at any 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.280 point in time. This episode does talk about suicide attempts, 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.079 it does talk about self harm, and it does talk 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:34.080 about both autism and obviously borderline personality as well. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:35.760 So please stick around. 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:37.840 This episode is a good one, and coming up right 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:46.760 after this, you'll hear doctor Courtney Tracy's story. Doctor Courtney Tracy, 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:48.120 Welcome to Hope is real. 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:49.359 First of all, how are you doing? 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:51.160 Then? 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.560 Well, thank you so much for having me. I am 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.840 doing better than I have been for the last eighteen months. 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.240 But I would have to say that I think there's 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.840 still quite a with lots of exciting things and healing 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:03.400 to come. 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:05.400 I love how honest that answer is. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:09.800 I think in New Zealand we have this tendency to 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.440 kind of almost script like, hey how are you? 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:14.480 Yeah? Good? Thanks? How you move on with your day? 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:18.160 And people don't ever actually answer the question honestly, it's 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.320 just kind of like scripted response, move on. And this 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:25.400 whole podcast and conversation is literally around being open and 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.200 honest and having these conversations. And the last time I 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.640 saw you was in La. We were filming a campaign 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.040 for voices, and you were very pregnant at the time. 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.040 Yes, I was very pregnant and it was so hot 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:39.960 that day. I felt like I was dying. 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.120 It was so hot, and I had come from New 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:44.320 Zealand winter as well, and I was like, I don't 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:47.080 know what's going on. It was boiling in LA. But 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:53.320 obviously kind of a lot has happened. You've had your kid, Yes, 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:54.120 I have. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:56.440 How was it experience? 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:02.200 I mean, well, the interview we had prior the pregnancy 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:06.720 was a struggle, right, I became very depressed, etc. I'm 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:08.440 not sure if we'll get into that on here. But 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:13.400 now that she is her own being, she's almost eight 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:22.680 months old, I get emotional immediately because that pregnancy, my second, 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.600 was so different than my first, and I didn't expect 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:31.240 to feel so wildly out of control, even though I 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.719 lived most of my life in that state, I didn't 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:39.920 see this coming, and so the pregnancy was horrible and 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:48.400 the birth was pretty horrible. But I am joyful now 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:52.200 and when she laughs, I'm so happy. And she loves 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:57.000 me and I love her, and she will always be 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:04.760 a testament to healing and to the work and I'm 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.279 excited for when she grows up and learns how much 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.159 it took for me to become her mother and how 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.680 proud and happy I am of that. 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.800 That's really beautiful. I really love that. 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:19.640 And I mean just seeing you in La and even 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.520 kind of hearing your experience after we did that interview 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:25.440 and kind of being like, oh my gosh, like this 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.520 so much almost is so much more. And I think 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:33.120 it's so important that everyone knows that recovery is not linear, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.960 Like it's not just kind of you walk up one mountain, 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:36.920 boom it's done. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:38.640 It's such a process. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.200 And I think your life and the way that you're 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.240 able to articulate articulate that and be so honest as 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.840 such a kind of evidence to that. And I would 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.920 love to kind of jump back and well, I definitely 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.479 want to talk further about your experience with this pregnancy, 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.359 because it's a very big thing that I think a 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:58.920 lot of mothers go through, and especially with the past 0:05:58.960 --> 0:05:59.880 history that you've had. 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:03.520 But what was your life like growing up? 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.880 That's a big question and one I've answered a lot 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.520 over the last five years, and you know, it's changed 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:13.840 over the last five years. And what I mean by 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.359 that is I've healed a lot becoming a public figure. 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.279 Maybe we can talk about that one day. I wonder 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.400 if that's happened for you, well ups and downs, But 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.520 it's I mean having borderline personality disorder, which is a 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:31.120 difficult disorder that for one encompasses really not knowing who 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.640 you are. Growing up, I had no idea who I was, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.680 and then becoming so known to millions of people, it 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.960 forced me to develop myself more in different ways. But 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.840 that was interesting because typically when somebody develops a sense 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.160 of self, it's in childhood. It's in their upbringing and 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.880 the way that they're mirrored by their parents and the 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.840 way that they form hobbies and opinions through their peer friendships. 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.480 And growing up for me was really difficult because I 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.960 grew up with a single mom on welfare and food stamps, 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:12.400 with an adult uncle who who has really severe autism, 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:19.520 grandparents who had a fifties relationship, and I was exposed 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.760 to a lot of mental health issues and substance use. 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:27.280 And because of my neurodivergency mixed with my borderline, that's 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:31.920 what I became. I became someone obsessed with substances and 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.240 someone who was obsessed with psychology, but in the way 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:38.920 where it told me why everybody else was messed up 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.280 around me. I never used psychology to figure out how 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.480 I could heal myself. And the last five years have 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:50.040 really allowed me to reflect on my childhood in ways 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:55.800 where I feel like I'm the parent I needed while 0:07:55.960 --> 0:08:00.760 becoming a parent to my own kids, I don't know 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.920 that was a bit reflective, but it was hard. It 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.880 was hard growing up. There wasn't money, and there wasn't stability, 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.040 and it took a long time to. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:08.640 Crawl out of that. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:13.440 Just hearing you say becoming the parent that you needed 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:15.720 and becoming just a person that you needed. 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:16.600 Makes me so emotional. 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:22.080 Like especially I think someone that has borderline personality disorder 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:26.280 one is something that is so insanely stigmatized, and also 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.560 a lot of people just fail to understand that that 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.199 is something that is I mean, you're the professional here, 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.920 but it's majority at the time rooted in childhood trauma, right, 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.800 and stuff that was out of your control that is 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:44.760 not your fault. And to kind of go through this 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.000 whole process and then become the person that you needed, 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.920 it's just it's so beautiful that you've been able to 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:56.360 take that pain and that misunderstanding and all of the 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:58.719 stigmas that come with it and the confusion, and it's 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.959 one of the most painful mental illnesses to live with 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:07.400 because of how stigmatized it is. What do you think 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:11.120 were like the first symptoms for you that you had 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:12.640 borderline personality disorder? 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:19.240 Well, you know, I'm still labeling some of the experiences 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:23.839 that I've had in childhood as borderline symptoms the more 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.560 I reflect and look back on it. But you know, 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.400 self harm was a big thing for me growing up. 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.160 But I used sex as self harm. I'm afraid of 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.200 physical pain, but I'm not I'm afraid of my body 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.640 being hurt, but I'm not afraid of my body causing 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:44.240 my heart to be hurt. Like that just doesn't It 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:48.000 didn't for a long time mean anything to me my body, 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.920 and so I used that to harm myself. But there 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:57.200 were instances of really intense binging substances, not being able 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.959 to maintain stable relationships, lacking as sense of self and identity, 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:09.400 having really intense anger control issues. It felt like I 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:17.040 was the Tasmanian devil and I was so incredibly destructive. 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.400 But what was interesting growing up was that there was 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.560 this little space inside of me that was quiet, calm 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:30.600 and scared, like so deeply afraid. And I masked that 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:37.040 with the substances and the anger, and it was so 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.880 clear that something was wrong, but I didn't have someone 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.400 to tell me that, or to actually, I mean, I 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.240 knew that, but I didn't have someone to tell me 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.280 there's something you can do about it. I didn't feel 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.600 seen growing up, and so I thought for a while 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:58.240 that this was just me acting out. But it wasn't 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.040 just a conscious choice to behave the way I was behaving. 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.480 It was a wiring of my brain and my body 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:09.080 and my mind that I didn't know could be potentially 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.880 inescapable if I don't do if I didn't do something 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:19.280 about it. Substance use, impulsivity, really intense anger would be 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.319 the main things. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.640 During that the earlier kind of I guess teenage years 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:31.439 were there moments where I guess, the specifically within the 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.000 borderline personality and kind of everything else going on in 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.640 your life where I don't want to use word exploded, 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:39.120 but it kind of felt like, because I know that 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.920 with specifically with borderline, your emotions are going like this, right, 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.280 Like I remember reading that it's like someone living with 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.640 third degree burns, Like the smallest touch feels so painful. 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.320 What were moments like when it did. 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.719 Feel so unbearably painful for you? 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.760 You know, I've been trying to find words to describe 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.760 that feeling. What's interesting is that if I say something 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.040 like if you know, you know, then like the people 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:11.280 that know no, but to try to describe something so 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:17.680 incredibly devastating, it's like, hm, well, the outward impulses can 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:25.760 seem like explosions, but what's happening inside is like, I mean, 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:30.000 what's coming to my head is imagine that where you're 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.360 standing on the earth, on the ground, your feet are 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.480 on the ground. Suddenly the whole rest of the world 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.480 comes apart from that surface that your feeder on, and 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.640 it has every person you've ever loved on it, and 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.720 then you just see them floating away into space. Like 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:55.320 that's the feeling of loneliness that encompasses borderline personality disorder 0:12:55.640 --> 0:13:05.439 and getting emotional because people do not understand the severity 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:10.440 of emotional distress when it comes to this disorder. 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:11.280 And so. 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.800 It feels like the end of the universe, which is 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:23.559 why the behaviors seem like you they they're acting as 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.440 though someone's trying to kill them. They're in their worst 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.319 possible state, in the most danger they could ever imagine, 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:37.760 in the most scarce, isolative place possible. And the sad 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:42.559 part is that the stigma solidifies that feeling. 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:51.559 I the amount of young people that I see daily 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:56.720 that struggle with this disorder that just is so stigmatized, 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.440 And I wrote about it actually my first book that 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.000 when I was younger, I was given the diagnosis of 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:07.360 borderline personality disorder, and then as I got older, they 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:09.280 realized that it was actually for me, it was a 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:14.440 mix of the ADHD and PTSD because the symptoms were similar. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.080 But what I realized was that because I had this 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.960 diagnosis and it was on my hospital files, whenever I 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.120 went into the emergency room for a physical thing, I 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.280 would be treated as if it was something going on 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:33.200 mentally because this label was on my files and for 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.640 people having to just live with that, and I'm like, 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.680 I remember it happened. I had just won Young New 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:45.560 Zealander of the Year for literally the journey that I 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.280 took and been able to be well again. And I 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.560 had this doctor who didn't believe anything because he saw 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:56.120 my mental health history and that's for me, who had 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.440 just kind of been like, Oh, she's got through it. 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:02.800 And I'm like, I can't even imagine for people that 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:07.440 live with this and already feel like a burden and 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:12.000 feel unlovable and feel all of these massive emotions to 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.600 then just have this added stigma on top of it that, 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.600 like you said, solidifies these beliefs that you already have. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.040 Is so now I'm going to cry. It's so heart 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.080 wrenching that people have to live. 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:29.680 Like that and it should never never be the case. 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:34.000 What would you want to say to people that are 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.360 listening to this that have borderline personality disorder? 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.440 What do you want to say to them? 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:46.880 I know that there's more to you. I know you're 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:55.200 a human being. And when I think about you, I 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.520 think about how the pain is a system in your 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:06.200 brain and everything else is you. And I think that 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.360 that's really important, because when someone sees the label, or 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.680 someone sees the physical form of the person that has 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:22.280 the label, they're not seen as a person with hobbies 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:28.840 and dreams and favorite movies, and they're dances that embarrass 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:33.600 them and the people that they've lost. And I see 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:38.960 it all, and I think that if no one else 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.360 ever says that to you. Please know that I am 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:46.440 somewhere in the world and my perception of you is 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.920 what you wish it could be from others. So please, 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:55.800 I'm not the only person that will see you, So 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:56.960 please believe me. 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:07.840 I am. I think I'm so emotional because I. 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:15.439 See this pain so deeply of people that live with this, 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:22.520 and I've seen so many people lose their lives because 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:26.640 they don't ever hear what you've just said, and they 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:31.600 don't ever experience the people in their worlds showing them 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:32.600 what you've just said. 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:36.600 And I think it's I mean, we've. 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.119 Tried for the last three seasons of this podcast to 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:43.640 find someone who could talk about borderline personality disorder from 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:45.000 this one. 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:46.000 I think you're so. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:52.000 Incredibly articulate and graceful, and you've just been through hell 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:52.560 with it. 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.200 But to be able to sit there and. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.000 Articulate the way that you do and talk to these 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.720 people the way that you do is something that I'm 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:08.679 so grateful that the world has, and I know that 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.960 the world was very close to not having that with you, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:15.640 which also makes me freaking emotional. 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.640 Like you're here and people get to understand that there 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:19.920 is hope because you exist. 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.000 And when we did the Change your Mind into View, 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.840 you were talking about a moment that was really really 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.480 bad for you where you kind of were like you 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.160 just didn't see any way out. 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:36.480 Would you be willing to talk about that? 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:43.360 Definitely, and thank you for everything that you've said. Creating 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:49.879 a family is all I've ever wanted, and I'm a 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:55.760 very ambitious woman. I tend to pile on really massive 0:18:55.880 --> 0:19:02.479 projects all at once, like opening up an entire treatment center, 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:07.760 completing IVF and having a baby, completing a doctorate, and 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.520 my licensure hours for my masters. I did all of 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:16.400 that at the same time in twenty seventeen successfully, So 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:21.600 I tried it again in twenty twenty three, where I 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.240 did IVF, to have a baby, opened up a treatment center, 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:30.960 and wrote my debut book. The problem was I am 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:37.080 also autistic, and as we age, our sensitivity levels increase, 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:43.120 our energy levels decrease naturally, not all the time, and 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.280 I am not the same person. I've also been through 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:52.600 a lot more trauma since twenty seventeen. But when I 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:57.640 became pregnant, actually I should say I became pregnant three 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:02.560 days after being diagnosed autistic. So for a year prior 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:07.399 to that, I was struggling significantly. I was already really 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:12.320 depressed and anxious. And being depressed and anxious when you 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.919 are a mental health public figure, I'm sure you know, 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.679 is very overwhelming. 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:20.160 What do you show? 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.399 What do you not show? What has a lesson in it? 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.800 For people? What's just cathartic messiness? And I didn't know 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:34.119 my place online. And when I was working to open 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.840 my treatment center, it wasn't going well because I was 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:42.520 so anxious and depressed. And when I became pregnant, I 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:48.480 lost all sense of control. My body was no longer mine, 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.600 and I struggled with a sense of self and mind. 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:59.639 So I was trapped. I felt trapped, And after I 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:03.720 received the diagnosis, my husband and I began to get 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:09.439 into a lot of arguments because we were trying to 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:14.320 figure out if my anxiety was simply anxiety, was a 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:18.560 trauma response, was my borderline acting up? Was my autistic 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:24.479 difficulties interpersonally? And I needed so much. I needed the 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:27.920 most I've ever needed in my life. And I've been 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:31.160 with my husband for eighteen years, nineteen years, and he's 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.159 an amazing human being. But we didn't know what to 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.960 do and we were down at the beach one day 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:42.879 and we got into a really big argument, and you know, 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.400 I said, when are you going to stop judging me? Now? 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.920 Humans judge there's nothing we can do about it. And 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.080 we were writing a book about this exact thing, and 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:57.199 he said, I'm always going to judge you, and he 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.679 meant it mean, and we had just in a section 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:03.320 on how humans will judge no matter what there's nothing 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.359 we can do about it. So he wasn't trying to 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:09.159 trigger me, but it did. I didn't. I wasn't honest 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:13.120 with him about where I was at. So he got 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:14.480 out of the car and he went down to the 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:16.680 beach with our son, and I stayed in the car 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:23.960 and I had panic attacks and breakdowns, and I was pregnant. 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:27.640 I think I was three or four months pregnant, and 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:37.120 I just needed a pause, like really badly shaking, hyperventilating. 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:40.680 So I called my best friend, who I never call. 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:48.040 I don't. We talked through words that are written, she answered. 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.359 She talked to me for an hour, and I kept 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:53.760 playing in my head like this is what I'm gonna do. 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:58.040 I can't handle this anymore. I'm not helping people online. 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:00.840 My body's not mine, the business is working. There's no 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:02.919 way I can write the book like the thoughts, the 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:05.440 thoughts that make you believe it's not going to end, 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:12.399 or the pain she talked me out of it. I 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:15.320 kind of like that. I'm talking about this slow because 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:18.560 when we had this last interview, I was breaking, really 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:21.280 breaking down, crying. I feel like I'm a little more 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:28.600 healed from it now. So I did not do what 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:32.480 I was going to do that day, and it's been 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:43.200 fifteen months since that day. I cannot believe it's been 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:50.200 that long. The day that my daughter was born, I. 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:55.159 Was so happy I stayed. I really can't believe that 0:23:55.240 --> 0:24:01.200 I almost didn't. And you know, I've. 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:07.560 Seen people have active suicidality as a clinician often, and 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:11.760 I've dealt with passive suicidality for decades. It's never been active. 0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:17.960 And I never quite understood the joy that came from 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:24.959 knowing that you didn't do it until now. And I 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:31.520 just want everybody to know that feeling. Everyone struggling. It's 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:36.399 a really hard feeling to believe exists, but it does, 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:45.719 and it's fascinating and it's better than you could ever imagine. 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:48.560 I think this is the first time this season that 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:55.200 I've really cried in an interview. But it's again just 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.840 sitting here and seeing you and even seeing you now 0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:01.000 compared to last year when we sat down, and just 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:06.439 the difference already in you, and just this light that 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:11.160 has turned on of I'm here, Like, I'm so glad 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:15.840 that I'm here. I mean, I know that even in 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:19.879 that last interview, I was, you know, talking about again 0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:23.639 how phenomenal, phenomenal it is that you are so willing 0:25:23.760 --> 0:25:26.840 to speak about these things. But I really truly hope 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:31.159 you understand the gravity of the path that you were 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:35.159 laying for so many people that are struggling with this 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:38.119 that feel like they're the only ones that feel like 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:42.760 there is something just acutely wrong with them, and that 0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:45.480 this is it that they get to those points of 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:49.600 this will never change, this pain will never end, and 0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:54.960 you today are just such an example and of hope 0:25:55.400 --> 0:26:00.800 that these people so desperately need. And I'm so incredibly 0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:04.240 thankful that you stayed. I'm so thankful you picked up 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:08.960 the phone that day and that you were able to 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:13.679 be here to bring your daughter into this world and 0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:15.840 to refine your strength again. 0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:17.560 And like you said, like recovery is a. 0:26:17.560 --> 0:26:20.880 Journey, right, Like there's still there's so much healing to go, 0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:23.960 and I'm on that same like, there's still so much 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:25.200 healing that I have to do. 0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:26.920 But to get to that. 0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:32.840