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Speaker 1: The Zitim Podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: People do not understand the severity of emotional distress when

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Speaker 2: it comes to this disorder. You are who you are,

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Speaker 2: You go through what you go through, and there's things

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Speaker 2: that you can control, and there's things that you cannot.

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Speaker 2: And the wisdom comes from knowing the difference.

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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, welcome back to Hope.

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Speaker 3: It's for all the podcast Season three. We're at another episode,

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Speaker 3: another week. I hope you've had a good week. I

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Speaker 3: am so insanely excited about today's episode. I genuinely think

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Speaker 3: this is one of my favorite episodes that I've ever recorded,

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite interviews that I've ever done. I

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Speaker 3: will give you pre warning. I cried a bit in

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Speaker 3: this episode, purely because of how beautiful this guest was

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Speaker 3: and her articulation of things. Doctor Courtney Tracy. She's a

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Speaker 3: psychologist from America. You may have seen her on TikTok.

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Speaker 3: But not only is she a psychologist, she's a psychologist

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Speaker 3: who lives with borderline personality disorder. Now, if you yourself

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Speaker 3: have borderline personality disorder, or you know anyone that does,

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Speaker 3: you know that it is one of the most difficult,

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Speaker 3: one of the most debilitating, one of the most misunderstood

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Speaker 3: mental illnesses. And the way that Courtney was able to

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Speaker 3: kind of talk about her experience as someone who lives

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Speaker 3: with that has so incredible. It's so heartfelt, it's so

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Speaker 3: eye opening, it's so beautiful, and it's also painful, and

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Speaker 3: that's the reality of living with BPD.

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Speaker 1: And I really.

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Speaker 3: Hope that this episode, if you are someone who lives

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Speaker 3: with BPD, that this is an episode that gives you hope,

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Speaker 3: that helps you feel understood, that helps you feel heard,

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Speaker 3: but also that she has this but has been able

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Speaker 3: to go and live a full career. She learns how

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Speaker 3: to manage and kind of deal with her day to

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Speaker 3: day life. I was lucky enough to meet doctor Courtney

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Speaker 3: when I was over in the US, and we recorded

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Speaker 3: a kind of interview thing that we did for voices

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Speaker 3: of hope and just hearing her. Then I was like, man,

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Speaker 3: I need to get you on this podcast. I need

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Speaker 3: you to be able to talk to these incredible listeners

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Speaker 3: and to be able to share the story even widelier

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Speaker 3: that's not even a word, even wider, but I genuinely

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Speaker 3: believe that you're gonna get a lot out of this episode.

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Speaker 3: So please, if you can stick around for it again.

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Speaker 3: If you need to take a break at anytime, we'll

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Speaker 3: talk to someone that's fully okay do that at any

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Speaker 3: point in time. This episode does talk about suicide attempts,

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Speaker 3: it does talk about self harm, and it does talk

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Speaker 3: about both autism and obviously borderline personality as well.

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Speaker 1: So please stick around.

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Speaker 3: This episode is a good one, and coming up right

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Speaker 3: after this, you'll hear doctor Courtney Tracy's story. Doctor Courtney Tracy,

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Hope is real.

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Speaker 1: First of all, how are you doing?

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Speaker 4: Then?

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for having me. I am

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Speaker 2: doing better than I have been for the last eighteen months.

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Speaker 2: But I would have to say that I think there's

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Speaker 2: still quite a with lots of exciting things and healing

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Speaker 2: to come.

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Speaker 1: I love how honest that answer is.

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Speaker 3: I think in New Zealand we have this tendency to

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Speaker 3: kind of almost script like, hey how are you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Good? Thanks? How you move on with your day?

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Speaker 3: And people don't ever actually answer the question honestly, it's

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Speaker 3: just kind of like scripted response, move on. And this

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Speaker 3: whole podcast and conversation is literally around being open and

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Speaker 3: honest and having these conversations. And the last time I

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Speaker 3: saw you was in La. We were filming a campaign

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Speaker 3: for voices, and you were very pregnant at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was very pregnant and it was so hot

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Speaker 2: that day. I felt like I was dying.

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Speaker 3: It was so hot, and I had come from New

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Speaker 3: Zealand winter as well, and I was like, I don't

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Speaker 3: know what's going on. It was boiling in LA. But

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Speaker 3: obviously kind of a lot has happened. You've had your kid, Yes,

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 1: How was it experience?

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Speaker 2: I mean, well, the interview we had prior the pregnancy

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Speaker 2: was a struggle, right, I became very depressed, etc. I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure if we'll get into that on here. But

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Speaker 2: now that she is her own being, she's almost eight

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Speaker 2: months old, I get emotional immediately because that pregnancy, my second,

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Speaker 2: was so different than my first, and I didn't expect

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Speaker 2: to feel so wildly out of control, even though I

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Speaker 2: lived most of my life in that state, I didn't

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Speaker 2: see this coming, and so the pregnancy was horrible and

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Speaker 2: the birth was pretty horrible. But I am joyful now

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Speaker 2: and when she laughs, I'm so happy. And she loves

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Speaker 2: me and I love her, and she will always be

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Speaker 2: a testament to healing and to the work and I'm

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Speaker 2: excited for when she grows up and learns how much

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Speaker 2: it took for me to become her mother and how

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Speaker 2: proud and happy I am of that.

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Speaker 1: That's really beautiful. I really love that.

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Speaker 3: And I mean just seeing you in La and even

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Speaker 3: kind of hearing your experience after we did that interview

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Speaker 3: and kind of being like, oh my gosh, like this

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Speaker 3: so much almost is so much more. And I think

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Speaker 3: it's so important that everyone knows that recovery is not linear,

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Speaker 3: Like it's not just kind of you walk up one mountain,

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Speaker 3: boom it's done.

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Speaker 1: It's such a process.

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Speaker 3: And I think your life and the way that you're

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Speaker 3: able to articulate articulate that and be so honest as

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Speaker 3: such a kind of evidence to that. And I would

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Speaker 3: love to kind of jump back and well, I definitely

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Speaker 3: want to talk further about your experience with this pregnancy,

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Speaker 3: because it's a very big thing that I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of mothers go through, and especially with the past

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Speaker 3: history that you've had.

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Speaker 1: But what was your life like growing up?

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Speaker 2: That's a big question and one I've answered a lot

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Speaker 2: over the last five years, and you know, it's changed

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Speaker 2: over the last five years. And what I mean by

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Speaker 2: that is I've healed a lot becoming a public figure.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we can talk about that one day. I wonder

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Speaker 2: if that's happened for you, well ups and downs, But

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Speaker 2: it's I mean having borderline personality disorder, which is a

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Speaker 2: difficult disorder that for one encompasses really not knowing who

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Speaker 2: you are. Growing up, I had no idea who I was,

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Speaker 2: and then becoming so known to millions of people, it

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Speaker 2: forced me to develop myself more in different ways. But

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Speaker 2: that was interesting because typically when somebody develops a sense

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Speaker 2: of self, it's in childhood. It's in their upbringing and

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Speaker 2: the way that they're mirrored by their parents and the

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Speaker 2: way that they form hobbies and opinions through their peer friendships.

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Speaker 2: And growing up for me was really difficult because I

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Speaker 2: grew up with a single mom on welfare and food stamps,

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Speaker 2: with an adult uncle who who has really severe autism,

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Speaker 2: grandparents who had a fifties relationship, and I was exposed

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Speaker 2: to a lot of mental health issues and substance use.

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Speaker 2: And because of my neurodivergency mixed with my borderline, that's

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Speaker 2: what I became. I became someone obsessed with substances and

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Speaker 2: someone who was obsessed with psychology, but in the way

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Speaker 2: where it told me why everybody else was messed up

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Speaker 2: around me. I never used psychology to figure out how

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Speaker 2: I could heal myself. And the last five years have

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Speaker 2: really allowed me to reflect on my childhood in ways

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Speaker 2: where I feel like I'm the parent I needed while

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Speaker 2: becoming a parent to my own kids, I don't know

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Speaker 2: that was a bit reflective, but it was hard. It

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Speaker 2: was hard growing up. There wasn't money, and there wasn't stability,

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Speaker 2: and it took a long time to.

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Speaker 1: Crawl out of that.

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Speaker 3: Just hearing you say becoming the parent that you needed

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Speaker 3: and becoming just a person that you needed.

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Speaker 1: Makes me so emotional.

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Speaker 3: Like especially I think someone that has borderline personality disorder

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Speaker 3: one is something that is so insanely stigmatized, and also

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Speaker 3: a lot of people just fail to understand that that

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Speaker 3: is something that is I mean, you're the professional here,

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Speaker 3: but it's majority at the time rooted in childhood trauma, right,

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Speaker 3: and stuff that was out of your control that is

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Speaker 3: not your fault. And to kind of go through this

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Speaker 3: whole process and then become the person that you needed,

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Speaker 3: it's just it's so beautiful that you've been able to

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Speaker 3: take that pain and that misunderstanding and all of the

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Speaker 3: stigmas that come with it and the confusion, and it's

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Speaker 3: one of the most painful mental illnesses to live with

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Speaker 3: because of how stigmatized it is. What do you think

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Speaker 3: were like the first symptoms for you that you had

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Speaker 3: borderline personality disorder?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm still labeling some of the experiences

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Speaker 2: that I've had in childhood as borderline symptoms the more

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Speaker 2: I reflect and look back on it. But you know,

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Speaker 2: self harm was a big thing for me growing up.

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Speaker 2: But I used sex as self harm. I'm afraid of

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Speaker 2: physical pain, but I'm not I'm afraid of my body

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Speaker 2: being hurt, but I'm not afraid of my body causing

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Speaker 2: my heart to be hurt. Like that just doesn't It

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Speaker 2: didn't for a long time mean anything to me my body,

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Speaker 2: and so I used that to harm myself. But there

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Speaker 2: were instances of really intense binging substances, not being able

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Speaker 2: to maintain stable relationships, lacking as sense of self and identity,

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Speaker 2: having really intense anger control issues. It felt like I

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Speaker 2: was the Tasmanian devil and I was so incredibly destructive.

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Speaker 2: But what was interesting growing up was that there was

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Speaker 2: this little space inside of me that was quiet, calm

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Speaker 2: and scared, like so deeply afraid. And I masked that

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Speaker 2: with the substances and the anger, and it was so

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Speaker 2: clear that something was wrong, but I didn't have someone

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Speaker 2: to tell me that, or to actually, I mean, I

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Speaker 2: knew that, but I didn't have someone to tell me

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Speaker 2: there's something you can do about it. I didn't feel

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Speaker 2: seen growing up, and so I thought for a while

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Speaker 2: that this was just me acting out. But it wasn't

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Speaker 2: just a conscious choice to behave the way I was behaving.

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Speaker 2: It was a wiring of my brain and my body

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Speaker 2: and my mind that I didn't know could be potentially

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Speaker 2: inescapable if I don't do if I didn't do something

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Speaker 2: about it. Substance use, impulsivity, really intense anger would be

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Speaker 2: the main things.

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Speaker 3: During that the earlier kind of I guess teenage years

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Speaker 3: were there moments where I guess, the specifically within the

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Speaker 3: borderline personality and kind of everything else going on in

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Speaker 3: your life where I don't want to use word exploded,

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Speaker 3: but it kind of felt like, because I know that

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Speaker 3: with specifically with borderline, your emotions are going like this, right,

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Speaker 3: Like I remember reading that it's like someone living with

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Speaker 3: third degree burns, Like the smallest touch feels so painful.

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Speaker 1: What were moments like when it did.

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Speaker 3: Feel so unbearably painful for you?

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Speaker 2: You know, I've been trying to find words to describe

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Speaker 2: that feeling. What's interesting is that if I say something

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Speaker 2: like if you know, you know, then like the people

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Speaker 2: that know no, but to try to describe something so

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Speaker 2: incredibly devastating, it's like, hm, well, the outward impulses can

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Speaker 2: seem like explosions, but what's happening inside is like, I mean,

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Speaker 2: what's coming to my head is imagine that where you're

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Speaker 2: standing on the earth, on the ground, your feet are

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Speaker 2: on the ground. Suddenly the whole rest of the world

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Speaker 2: comes apart from that surface that your feeder on, and

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Speaker 2: it has every person you've ever loved on it, and

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Speaker 2: then you just see them floating away into space. Like

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Speaker 2: that's the feeling of loneliness that encompasses borderline personality disorder

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Speaker 2: and getting emotional because people do not understand the severity

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Speaker 2: of emotional distress when it comes to this disorder.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: It feels like the end of the universe, which is

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Speaker 2: why the behaviors seem like you they they're acting as

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Speaker 2: though someone's trying to kill them. They're in their worst

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Speaker 2: possible state, in the most danger they could ever imagine,

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Speaker 2: in the most scarce, isolative place possible. And the sad

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Speaker 2: part is that the stigma solidifies that feeling.

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Speaker 3: I the amount of young people that I see daily

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Speaker 3: that struggle with this disorder that just is so stigmatized,

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Speaker 3: And I wrote about it actually my first book that

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Speaker 3: when I was younger, I was given the diagnosis of

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Speaker 3: borderline personality disorder, and then as I got older, they

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Speaker 3: realized that it was actually for me, it was a

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Speaker 3: mix of the ADHD and PTSD because the symptoms were similar.

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Speaker 3: But what I realized was that because I had this

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Speaker 3: diagnosis and it was on my hospital files, whenever I

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Speaker 3: went into the emergency room for a physical thing, I

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Speaker 3: would be treated as if it was something going on

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Speaker 3: mentally because this label was on my files and for

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Speaker 3: people having to just live with that, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I remember it happened. I had just won Young New

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Speaker 3: Zealander of the Year for literally the journey that I

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Speaker 3: took and been able to be well again. And I

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Speaker 3: had this doctor who didn't believe anything because he saw

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Speaker 3: my mental health history and that's for me, who had

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Speaker 3: just kind of been like, Oh, she's got through it.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, I can't even imagine for people that

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Speaker 3: live with this and already feel like a burden and

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Speaker 3: feel unlovable and feel all of these massive emotions to

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Speaker 3: then just have this added stigma on top of it that,

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Speaker 3: like you said, solidifies these beliefs that you already have.

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Speaker 3: Is so now I'm going to cry. It's so heart

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Speaker 3: wrenching that people have to live.

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Speaker 1: Like that and it should never never be the case.

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Speaker 3: What would you want to say to people that are

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Speaker 3: listening to this that have borderline personality disorder?

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Speaker 1: What do you want to say to them?

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Speaker 2: I know that there's more to you. I know you're

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Speaker 2: a human being. And when I think about you, I

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Speaker 2: think about how the pain is a system in your

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Speaker 2: brain and everything else is you. And I think that

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Speaker 2: that's really important, because when someone sees the label, or

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Speaker 2: someone sees the physical form of the person that has

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Speaker 2: the label, they're not seen as a person with hobbies

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Speaker 2: and dreams and favorite movies, and they're dances that embarrass

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Speaker 2: them and the people that they've lost. And I see

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Speaker 2: it all, and I think that if no one else

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Speaker 2: ever says that to you. Please know that I am

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Speaker 2: somewhere in the world and my perception of you is

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Speaker 2: what you wish it could be from others. So please,

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Speaker 2: I'm not the only person that will see you, So

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Speaker 2: please believe me.

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Speaker 1: I am. I think I'm so emotional because I.

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Speaker 3: See this pain so deeply of people that live with this,

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Speaker 3: and I've seen so many people lose their lives because

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Speaker 3: they don't ever hear what you've just said, and they

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Speaker 3: don't ever experience the people in their worlds showing them

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Speaker 3: what you've just said.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's I mean, we've.

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Speaker 3: Tried for the last three seasons of this podcast to

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Speaker 3: find someone who could talk about borderline personality disorder from

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Speaker 3: this one.

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Speaker 1: I think you're so.

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Speaker 3: Incredibly articulate and graceful, and you've just been through hell

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Speaker 3: with it.

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Speaker 1: But to be able to sit there and.

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Speaker 3: Articulate the way that you do and talk to these

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Speaker 3: people the way that you do is something that I'm

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Speaker 3: so grateful that the world has, and I know that

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Speaker 3: the world was very close to not having that with you,

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Speaker 3: which also makes me freaking emotional.

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Speaker 1: Like you're here and people get to understand that there

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Speaker 1: is hope because you exist.

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Speaker 3: And when we did the Change your Mind into View,

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Speaker 3: you were talking about a moment that was really really

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Speaker 3: bad for you where you kind of were like you

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Speaker 3: just didn't see any way out.

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Speaker 1: Would you be willing to talk about that?

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Speaker 2: Definitely, and thank you for everything that you've said. Creating

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Speaker 2: a family is all I've ever wanted, and I'm a

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Speaker 2: very ambitious woman. I tend to pile on really massive

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Speaker 2: projects all at once, like opening up an entire treatment center,

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Speaker 2: completing IVF and having a baby, completing a doctorate, and

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Speaker 2: my licensure hours for my masters. I did all of

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Speaker 2: that at the same time in twenty seventeen successfully, So

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Speaker 2: I tried it again in twenty twenty three, where I

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Speaker 2: did IVF, to have a baby, opened up a treatment center,

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Speaker 2: and wrote my debut book. The problem was I am

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Speaker 2: also autistic, and as we age, our sensitivity levels increase,

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Speaker 2: our energy levels decrease naturally, not all the time, and

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Speaker 2: I am not the same person. I've also been through

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Speaker 2: a lot more trauma since twenty seventeen. But when I

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Speaker 2: became pregnant, actually I should say I became pregnant three

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Speaker 2: days after being diagnosed autistic. So for a year prior

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Speaker 2: to that, I was struggling significantly. I was already really

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Speaker 2: depressed and anxious. And being depressed and anxious when you

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Speaker 2: are a mental health public figure, I'm sure you know,

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Speaker 2: is very overwhelming.

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Speaker 1: What do you show?

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Speaker 2: What do you not show? What has a lesson in it?

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Speaker 2: For people? What's just cathartic messiness? And I didn't know

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Speaker 2: my place online. And when I was working to open

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Speaker 2: my treatment center, it wasn't going well because I was

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Speaker 2: so anxious and depressed. And when I became pregnant, I

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Speaker 2: lost all sense of control. My body was no longer mine,

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Speaker 2: and I struggled with a sense of self and mind.

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Speaker 2: So I was trapped. I felt trapped, And after I

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Speaker 2: received the diagnosis, my husband and I began to get

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Speaker 2: into a lot of arguments because we were trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out if my anxiety was simply anxiety, was a

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Speaker 2: trauma response, was my borderline acting up? Was my autistic

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Speaker 2: difficulties interpersonally? And I needed so much. I needed the

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Speaker 2: most I've ever needed in my life. And I've been

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Speaker 2: with my husband for eighteen years, nineteen years, and he's

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Speaker 2: an amazing human being. But we didn't know what to

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Speaker 2: do and we were down at the beach one day

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Speaker 2: and we got into a really big argument, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I said, when are you going to stop judging me? Now?

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Speaker 2: Humans judge there's nothing we can do about it. And

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Speaker 2: we were writing a book about this exact thing, and

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Speaker 2: he said, I'm always going to judge you, and he

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Speaker 2: meant it mean, and we had just in a section

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Speaker 2: on how humans will judge no matter what there's nothing

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Speaker 2: we can do about it. So he wasn't trying to

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Speaker 2: trigger me, but it did. I didn't. I wasn't honest

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Speaker 2: with him about where I was at. So he got

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Speaker 2: out of the car and he went down to the

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Speaker 2: beach with our son, and I stayed in the car

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Speaker 2: and I had panic attacks and breakdowns, and I was pregnant.

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Speaker 2: I think I was three or four months pregnant, and

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Speaker 2: I just needed a pause, like really badly shaking, hyperventilating.

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Speaker 2: So I called my best friend, who I never call.

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Speaker 2: I don't. We talked through words that are written, she answered.

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Speaker 2: She talked to me for an hour, and I kept

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Speaker 2: playing in my head like this is what I'm gonna do.

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Speaker 2: I can't handle this anymore. I'm not helping people online.

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Speaker 2: My body's not mine, the business is working. There's no

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Speaker 2: way I can write the book like the thoughts, the

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Speaker 2: thoughts that make you believe it's not going to end,

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Speaker 2: or the pain she talked me out of it. I

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Speaker 2: kind of like that. I'm talking about this slow because

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Speaker 2: when we had this last interview, I was breaking, really

360
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Speaker 2: breaking down, crying. I feel like I'm a little more

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Speaker 2: healed from it now. So I did not do what

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Speaker 2: I was going to do that day, and it's been

363
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Speaker 2: fifteen months since that day. I cannot believe it's been

364
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Speaker 2: that long. The day that my daughter was born, I.

365
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Speaker 4: Was so happy I stayed. I really can't believe that

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Speaker 4: I almost didn't. And you know, I've.

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Speaker 2: Seen people have active suicidality as a clinician often, and

368
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Speaker 2: I've dealt with passive suicidality for decades. It's never been active.

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Speaker 2: And I never quite understood the joy that came from

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Speaker 2: knowing that you didn't do it until now. And I

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Speaker 2: just want everybody to know that feeling. Everyone struggling. It's

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Speaker 2: a really hard feeling to believe exists, but it does,

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Speaker 2: and it's fascinating and it's better than you could ever imagine.

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Speaker 3: I think this is the first time this season that

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Speaker 3: I've really cried in an interview. But it's again just

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Speaker 3: sitting here and seeing you and even seeing you now

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Speaker 3: compared to last year when we sat down, and just

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Speaker 3: the difference already in you, and just this light that

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Speaker 3: has turned on of I'm here, Like, I'm so glad

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Speaker 3: that I'm here. I mean, I know that even in

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Speaker 3: that last interview, I was, you know, talking about again

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Speaker 3: how phenomenal, phenomenal it is that you are so willing

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Speaker 3: to speak about these things. But I really truly hope

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Speaker 3: you understand the gravity of the path that you were

385
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Speaker 3: laying for so many people that are struggling with this

386
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Speaker 3: that feel like they're the only ones that feel like

387
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Speaker 3: there is something just acutely wrong with them, and that

388
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Speaker 3: this is it that they get to those points of

389
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Speaker 3: this will never change, this pain will never end, and

390
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Speaker 3: you today are just such an example and of hope

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Speaker 3: that these people so desperately need. And I'm so incredibly

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Speaker 3: thankful that you stayed. I'm so thankful you picked up

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Speaker 3: the phone that day and that you were able to

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Speaker 3: be here to bring your daughter into this world and

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Speaker 3: to refine your strength again.

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Speaker 1: And like you said, like recovery is a.

397
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Speaker 3: Journey, right, Like there's still there's so much healing to go,

398
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Speaker 3: and I'm on that same like, there's still so much

399
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Speaker 3: healing that I have to do.

400
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Speaker 1: But to get to that.

401
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Speaker 3: Position of being thankful that you are still alive, that

402
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 3: is the moment that is so worth fighting for.

403
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Speaker 1: I yeah, I just oh my gosh.

404
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Speaker 3: Courtney, you are such a phenomenal human and I would

405
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Speaker 3: love to know what the process has been like for

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Speaker 3: you from that day that you made that phone call

407
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Speaker 3: to now being able to sit here and go I'm

408
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Speaker 3: so happy I'm here.

409
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Speaker 1: What was that procees? What happened?

410
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Speaker 2: I struggled for quite a while after that day. You know,

411
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Speaker 2: we had the interview a few months after, and then

412
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Speaker 2: I watched that interview after it was posted, and then

413
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: I stopped all social media, and I remember you reached

414
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 2: out and you were like, excuse me, are you okay?

415
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Speaker 2: Did we do something like? Are you what's wrong? And

416
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: seeing myself explain the scariest moment of my life in

417
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Speaker 2: the way that I described it made me feel like

418
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 2: I had something special to offer and needed to take

419
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: care of myself so that it didn't go anywhere. So

420
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Speaker 2: thank you for that interview. It really changed my life,

421
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: and I decided to try to do my treatment center.

422
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Speaker 2: After I saw that interview, I had shut it down completely.

423
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Speaker 2: I was working with a ghost writer for my debut book,

424
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Speaker 2: and I decided that sh she couldn't write my story

425
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Speaker 2: the way that I could, so I let her keep

426
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Speaker 2: the money and I started all over from scratch and

427
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: had my baby. So I guess what happened was I

428
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: decided to live and to exist and to give it

429
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Speaker 2: my all. And so I took a break and I've

430
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Speaker 2: been slowly coming back. My business is open, my book

431
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: cover was just revealed. My baby's turning eight months old,

432
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Speaker 2: and I think I've just told myself the truth.

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Speaker 1: You are who you are.

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Speaker 2: You go through what you go through, and there's things

435
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: that you can control, and there's things that you cannot,

436
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: and the wisdom comes from knowing the difference. Yeah, So

437
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 2: that's what my entire book is about. I wrote about

438
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Speaker 2: what it means to feel wildly out of control, to

439
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: have a diagnosis where people think you're insane and evil,

440
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: and to be stable and good through it all.

441
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: When does this book come out?

442
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: The book comes out March eleventh, twenty twenty five and

443
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: what's it called. It's called Your Unconscious is Showing and

444
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: the subtitle is take Control of your life using the

445
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: Twelve Steps of Consciousness.

446
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: Wow, oh my gosh.

447
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 3: I everyone who is listening to this, I please whenever

448
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 3: this comes out for pre order, pre order it.

449
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: I remember doing it was your.

450
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: Podcast so long ago, Like literally, I think we both

451
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 3: had kind of really well babies in the social media space,

452
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: like we're just kind of in those beginning stages, and

453
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: you had your podcast was about that concept of the unconscious,

454
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: and I think it was the first time that I

455
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 3: had really thought about it in the way that you

456
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 3: were articulating and began to be like, oh my gosh,

457
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: like there's so many things of like these beliefs and

458
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: behaviors that have developed that I'm just so in my mind,

459
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is everything that's wrong with me. But

460
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 3: it was like these things developed at some point, and

461
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: my brain has just been working over time to protect

462
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: itself without me even knowing. And I'm really really excited

463
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: to read this book, and I'm so glad that you

464
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 3: wrote it yourself. I just think it makes it so

465
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 3: much more powerful, especially because of the voice that you

466
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 3: are and I know I've said it twelve million times

467
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 3: in this interview, and I'll say it twelve million more

468
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: times again because I just don't know if you realize

469
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 3: how special you are and how many people your voice

470
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 3: and your story and your openness just gives them that hope.

471
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 3: And I also really love that you are a woman

472
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 3: who is living with borderline and with autism and your

473
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: experiences that you've had, and you've got your doctorate and

474
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: you are opening treatment centers and you've written a book

475
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 3: like you are the proof that your illness is not

476
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 3: your identity and that you can live a full life,

477
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: even though the statistics and the things that you see

478
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 3: online about the fact that this will never go away

479
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 3: because it makes people lose hope, right there's no treatment

480
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 3: necessarily or pill to magic pilled it to change it,

481
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 3: so people feel hopeless.

482
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: And I just your life is.

483
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,719
Speaker 3: So evident that that's just this gues It gets so

484
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 3: hard at times, and it is and ebbs and flows,

485
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: but my goodness, you.

486
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: Survive every day.

487
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: You survive, and you live, and you write and you

488
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 3: create places people to get help.

489
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: Like you're just such a phenomenal person.

490
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 3: And I will tell you that till the day I die,

491
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 3: because you're just You're.

492
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: Phenomenal, and I would love you if you could.

493
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 3: I think kind of well, we've talked about a lot,

494
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 3: and what we know to be true is that borderline

495
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 3: personality is such a misunderstood illness, right, and I think

496
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: for those who know someone in their immediate life who

497
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 3: has it, it can be so confusing to understand the

498
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 3: behaviors and the reactions and the responses, and kind.

499
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: Of hard to get out of.

500
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 3: I think attention seeking is often a stigma that is

501
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 3: attached to this as well.

502
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: I would love for you to be able to articulate to.

503
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: People who have a loved one with borderline who don't

504
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 3: understand from this lived experience point of view. Can you

505
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 3: tell them the things that their loved ones want them

506
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 3: to know, well, you know, wish for them to know,

507
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: but maybe just don't know how to articulate it as

508
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 3: they're in the middle of it.

509
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: That's such a good question. We're sorry, it's very hard,

510
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 2: and we did not ask for this, and we know

511
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: that you didn't either. We hear you, and we know

512
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: that you love us, and we know that we can

513
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: be hurtful and we need your help. When people act

514
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: in any way. There's a process that happens internally.

515
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 5: The way that our body feels triggers the thoughts that

516
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 5: our brains have, and the thoughts that our brains have

517
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 5: create the.

518
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 2: Stories that we tell ourselves. We were not taught how

519
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: our body works. We were not taught how our brain works.

520
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: We were not taught how our mind works. What we

521
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: were taught is that we deserve and cause pain. And

522
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 2: when that is all you know, you tend not to

523
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: do the things that you would do if you knew more.

524
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: So hold our hand, set your boundaries, and please give

525
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: us a chance.

526
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: I Oh, I don't even know what to say, except

527
00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 3: that just it was both so beautiful and so heart

528
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 3: wrenching at the same time and so important. So thank

529
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 3: you for taking the time to really think about that

530
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 3: and to be able to articulate the things that so

531
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 3: many can't and don't know how to. Your voice is

532
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 3: so important and has just been able to clarify and

533
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: almost just pull back the curtains to show what it

534
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 3: is really like in a way that I know a

535
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 3: lot of people want to be able to express but can't.

536
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: And I would really love to ask you this last

537
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: question before I let.

538
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 3: You go as much. I mean, I want to talk

539
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 3: to you all day, every day. I just this so

540
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 3: much wisdom that comes from you. This podcast is called

541
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 3: Hope Is Real and I asked this to everyone, but

542
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 3: I really want to ask this to you. With everything

543
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 3: that you've shared and all of your experiences, what does the.

544
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: Word hope mean to you?

545
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 2: You asked me this in the last interview, and I

546
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 2: didn't have an answer at the time, and then I

547
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 2: went and looked it up, was like, what is the

548
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: typical definition? And honestly, my mind just went shit. I

549
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 2: don't remember what it said, but I've been thinking about

550
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: that since you asked. What's coming up for me is

551
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: that I'm full of hope in a way that I

552
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 2: never have been before. I think for me, hope is

553
00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: knowing that there's a way out, that you're not alone,

554
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: and that things do get better. I'd argue to say

555
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: that hope feels like love, because when I think of

556
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: hope and the feeling that it gives me, it's the

557
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 2: same feeling that my husband gives me. And as you

558
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: can probably tell, i'm autistic in borderline right now when

559
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: I'm a therapist and I'm still trying to decipher what

560
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 2: love and hope feel like, you know, I do. I

561
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: think I'm going to go with that, like, because hope

562
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 2: is real, and what's real is that things can change

563
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: and you're not alone and things get better. Yeah, I

564
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: feel like I'm coming to It's like I have an

565
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: answer to it. Maybe I want it to be more succinct,

566
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: but I think what I find fascinating is that such

567
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 2: a simple question, for such an articulate person can be

568
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: such a stop sign, and maybe that means I have

569
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: more hope to find.

570
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 1: I also think that.

571
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 3: What I'm the person who is sitting here on zoom

572
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 3: in front of me right now, you and your life

573
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 3: right now is the very definition of hope. I think

574
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 3: that knowing your story and from even from the last

575
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 3: interview to now, and the fact that you're still here

576
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 3: and you are speaking the way that you are, you

577
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 3: represent hope. And I think that's that's why I really

578
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 3: and I know that I did ask you that in

579
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 3: the last interview, and just like I said right at

580
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: the beginning, this light has really turned on in you

581
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: that you can see and this kind of grit of

582
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: I'm going to stay and I'm going to be here,

583
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 3: no matter what, and you're the way that you just are.

584
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 3: And yeah, I just I think that you carry hope

585
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: wherever you are and with every word that you have

586
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 3: spoken on this podcast, hope has been there. And I

587
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 3: think that, yeah, like you said, hope is a journey

588
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 3: that maybe there's definitely always more hope to find. But

589
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: I hope that you hope. I hope that you leave

590
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 3: this interview really like, I really want you to understand that,

591
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: like you you to me right now, this is hope,

592
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: Like this is you look at your your eight month

593
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 3: old daughter.

594
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,479
Speaker 1: That is hope. Yeah, Like it's the fact that Yeah,

595
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: I mean I could go on and on and on,

596
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 1: and I mean I really I.

597
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 3: Need people to be able to get this book when

598
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 3: it comes out.

599
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: I just think that the wisdom that.

600
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 3: You have is just so so needed in this world.

601
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 3: And I mean, how can people find you on the

602
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 3: socials as well?

603
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 1: Yeah?

604
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 2: You Well, my website is the Truthdoctor dot com and

605
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: you can pre order my books there.

606
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: Now, okay, we.

607
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 3: Will put a link up on both in the show

608
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 3: notes of this but also on our page when this

609
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 3: interview comes up, So please everyone go order it.

610
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: Thank you, And then my socials on TikTok, Instagram and

611
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: YouTube and snapchat and LinkedIn are the Truth Doctor as well?

612
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: And for the pre order, you can do that anywhere

613
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 2: you can pre order books. I'll get better at that soon.

614
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: Wait. Can I just ask where did the name the

615
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: Truth Doctor come from?

616
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 2: Well, the name the Truth Doctor came from. Actually I

617
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 2: write about it in the book. The year that my

618
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: son was turning one, I was finishing my doctorate and

619
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 2: I was finishing my hours to become a licensed clinician.

620
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 2: I went through a major family trauma publicly in front

621
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 2: of my whole city as a treatment center owner and

622
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: a therapist. It was a really big deal, and I

623
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: started drowning myself in the stigma of mental health and

624
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: substance use issues, and I caved. It was really bad.

625
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 2: And then I decided that if someone was going to

626
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 2: come out and show that therapists can be human beings,

627
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 2: that human beings can struggle with mental health issues, therefore

628
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: so can therapist. If anyone was going to do that,

629
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: I wanted it to be me. So I talked to

630
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 2: my husband and I said, I'm going to make a

631
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 2: social media account and I'm going to tell it all

632
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 2: all the time. The full truth, all of it, all

633
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: my messiness, and he was like, okay, And I said,

634
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: what should I name myself? And he said, you should

635
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 2: name yourself the Truth doctor, because I've never met a

636
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 2: woman that couldn't hold back saying it exactly the way

637
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 2: that it is for the benefit of other people. And

638
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 2: if there isn't another definition of the truth, doctor, and

639
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: I don't know what is, so I made it the

640
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: Truth doctor, and I made my mission to tell my

641
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: truth to help other people tell theirs, and that that

642
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 2: is my method appealing.

643
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: I love that so much.

644
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 3: And I'm just so thankful that you've taken the time

645
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,879
Speaker 3: to come on this podcast and to chat with me.

646
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: Again for a second time.

647
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 3: And I'm so glad that you have because I just

648
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: been able to just see this growth from the last

649
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 3: interview to this one is just so beautiful.

650
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: And I know that you're you're very busy doing.

651
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 3: The twelve million things that you do, and on top

652
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 3: of it, your mind. I don't even have kids, and

653
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm constantly scrambling with the amount of

654
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 3: stuff I'm doing. So thank you so much for coming on.

655
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 3: Is there any anything else that you want to say

656
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 3: before I let you go? You can have a whole

657
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 3: other hour if you will. I've you you just take

658
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: the floor.

659
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: I think I would just like to say that while

660
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 2: I can be really deep, I can also be really fun.

661
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: And so I want people to know that this or

662
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: these very difficult conditions and disorders and the healing process

663
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 2: from them does not have to be a drag or

664
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: dreary or just feel like another nightmare on top of

665
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 2: the one you were trying to get yourself out of.

666
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:46,959
Speaker 2: It can be fun and lighthearted and joyful. And that's

667
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: the up and down that you've been talking about. And

668
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: so just please keep that in mind to everyone listening,

669
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: Like when you find yourself on the path of healing

670
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 2: from borderline personality disorder and it just seems like it's

671
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: always always work, that probably means you're coming close to

672
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 2: it being a little fun. So stay in the game

673
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: and remember that I see you and you can see me.

674
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 2: Just come online and say hi.

675
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 3: Oh that's so beautiful. Hey, thank you so much for

676
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 3: coming on this podcast, and I hope that you have

677
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 3: a good rest of your evening because it is now

678
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 3: I know the time zone that we're.

679
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: Yes, it is. Thank you so much, Jos, Thank.

680
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: You well do you have it?

681
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 3: Guys, thank you so much for staying and for listening

682
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 3: to this episode. And like I've said at the beginning,

683
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: and I always say, if anything in this episode that's

684
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 3: been talked about has brought anything up for you, you

685
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 3: feel like you need to talk to someone, then please

686
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 3: remember and know that the bravest thing that you can

687
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 3: do right now is to talk to someone, is to

688
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 3: ask for help, whether that's from a friend, a family member,

689
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 3: or if you don't know who to talk to, then

690
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 3: if you live in Altaiola here you can call or

691
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 3: text one seven three seven at any time to talk

692
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: to a trained counselor. Or if you live overseas, go

693
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 3: to dubdubdub dot the Voices of Hope dot org for

694
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 3: a list of international helplines. Remember that no matter what

695
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 3: it is that you're facing, no matter what it is

696
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 3: that you're going through, that in all things, hope is

697
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 3: real and change as possible.

698
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: I'll see you guys next week