1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,507 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,907 Speaker 1: from Newstalks, edb. 3 00:00:12,747 --> 00:00:15,347 Speaker 2: Down the Blind Again, Love Slipping. 4 00:00:15,027 --> 00:00:19,427 Speaker 3: Through Love, I Love, They Run, Ruben Love helfor to 5 00:00:19,507 --> 00:00:20,787 Speaker 3: the right and right hand up. 6 00:00:20,747 --> 00:00:23,907 Speaker 4: Right here, Rubin Love with a try on just the 7 00:00:23,947 --> 00:00:27,227 Speaker 4: second start he's had the opportunity to take in an 8 00:00:27,227 --> 00:00:30,547 Speaker 4: All Blacks jersey. He tweaked an ankle, unfortunately off for 9 00:00:30,547 --> 00:00:32,827 Speaker 4: the last twenty five minutes, but Rubin Love another to 10 00:00:33,387 --> 00:00:36,067 Speaker 4: perhaps enhance his reputation this morning, Let's get you back 11 00:00:36,107 --> 00:00:39,027 Speaker 4: to Cardiff and bring a New Zealand Herald Rugby writer 12 00:00:39,227 --> 00:00:41,387 Speaker 4: Gregor Paul Gregor, I do want to zoom out on 13 00:00:41,427 --> 00:00:44,267 Speaker 4: the entire year in a moment, But what did you 14 00:00:44,267 --> 00:00:46,507 Speaker 4: make of the All Black saventy minutes in Cardiff this morning? 15 00:00:47,587 --> 00:00:49,947 Speaker 3: Well, they did what they needed to do, which was 16 00:00:49,947 --> 00:00:57,707 Speaker 3: to put a fairly troubled, inexperienced, underpowered Welsh team away. 17 00:00:58,347 --> 00:01:00,187 Speaker 3: It took them a wee bit longer than I think 18 00:01:00,187 --> 00:01:03,347 Speaker 3: they ideally would have liked. I think they thought they 19 00:01:03,347 --> 00:01:05,587 Speaker 3: would break them after halftime and they didn't. It took 20 00:01:05,627 --> 00:01:08,707 Speaker 3: about sixty five minutes before they really had them dead 21 00:01:08,707 --> 00:01:11,667 Speaker 3: and buried. They've got some good performances out of a 22 00:01:11,707 --> 00:01:13,027 Speaker 3: few of the guys that haven't. 23 00:01:12,787 --> 00:01:13,667 Speaker 2: Played any rugby. 24 00:01:13,707 --> 00:01:17,347 Speaker 3: I thought Leonard Brown and Yowanni formed quite a good 25 00:01:18,027 --> 00:01:23,707 Speaker 3: midfield combination. Rico Sorry Rubin Love played pretty well at fullback, 26 00:01:23,907 --> 00:01:24,387 Speaker 3: a young. 27 00:01:24,187 --> 00:01:25,827 Speaker 2: Player that people are quite excited about. 28 00:01:25,947 --> 00:01:28,827 Speaker 3: And the forward pack did what it's been doing all 29 00:01:28,947 --> 00:01:30,747 Speaker 3: year and look pretty solid at set piece. 30 00:01:30,827 --> 00:01:33,987 Speaker 2: So they ticked a lot of boxers and. 31 00:01:33,947 --> 00:01:37,467 Speaker 3: They probably made themselves feel better about where they are 32 00:01:37,507 --> 00:01:38,467 Speaker 3: in the world right now. 33 00:01:39,067 --> 00:01:42,627 Speaker 4: Does it change the way we should view twenty twenty five? 34 00:01:44,067 --> 00:01:49,467 Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. Be a real danger to extrapolate. You know, 35 00:01:49,547 --> 00:01:53,187 Speaker 3: a game under a roof with a dry ball against 36 00:01:53,547 --> 00:01:56,907 Speaker 3: the world's twelfth best team, and really, you know, there's 37 00:01:56,947 --> 00:01:58,987 Speaker 3: a team that's won one game at home in the 38 00:01:59,027 --> 00:02:01,747 Speaker 3: last two years and it was against Japan last week 39 00:02:01,787 --> 00:02:03,187 Speaker 3: and that was with the last minute kick. 40 00:02:03,787 --> 00:02:04,867 Speaker 2: You know, Whales are troubled. 41 00:02:06,427 --> 00:02:08,747 Speaker 3: You can't really look at a game where that where 42 00:02:08,827 --> 00:02:13,107 Speaker 3: space and time are commodities that are freely given, because 43 00:02:13,107 --> 00:02:16,187 Speaker 3: Wales don't have the ability to defend or set piece 44 00:02:16,267 --> 00:02:19,427 Speaker 3: the way that you know the top tier teams can. 45 00:02:19,987 --> 00:02:21,507 Speaker 3: And you look at all that and go, well, look, 46 00:02:21,627 --> 00:02:24,547 Speaker 3: it was kind of a fun exercise to finish the year. 47 00:02:25,067 --> 00:02:27,747 Speaker 3: But the most telling point would be they weren't playing 48 00:02:27,747 --> 00:02:29,867 Speaker 3: for a Grand Swam. They all blacks, So there you go. 49 00:02:30,027 --> 00:02:32,867 Speaker 3: That would be where you put the season into perspective 50 00:02:32,947 --> 00:02:35,867 Speaker 3: and go, yep, that's true because they were well beaten 51 00:02:35,907 --> 00:02:40,627 Speaker 3: by England and they didn't really put any other trophies 52 00:02:40,627 --> 00:02:42,147 Speaker 3: in the cabinet. I mean you can talk about the 53 00:02:42,147 --> 00:02:46,107 Speaker 3: Bleddersold Cup, but yes they retained that. But to be honest, 54 00:02:46,147 --> 00:02:50,307 Speaker 3: Australia are despite some of the performances which were quite good, 55 00:02:50,867 --> 00:02:54,067 Speaker 3: remain a reasonably weak team as well. And when it 56 00:02:54,107 --> 00:02:57,387 Speaker 3: really mattered, this New Zealand team didn't win the games 57 00:02:57,387 --> 00:03:00,107 Speaker 3: that needed to. It didn't play well enough for long 58 00:03:00,227 --> 00:03:04,387 Speaker 3: enough and it hasn't really given us a confidence or 59 00:03:04,467 --> 00:03:07,467 Speaker 3: optimism that that will change next year. 60 00:03:08,307 --> 00:03:11,027 Speaker 4: So when those in charge of these things are conducting 61 00:03:11,067 --> 00:03:15,387 Speaker 4: their review, where should they be placing the harshest spotlight. 62 00:03:17,467 --> 00:03:19,507 Speaker 2: I think they've got to look at their attack game. 63 00:03:20,467 --> 00:03:25,147 Speaker 3: Yeah, because New Zealand for years decades, you tend to 64 00:03:25,227 --> 00:03:27,907 Speaker 3: lead the world in that department. They tend to be 65 00:03:27,947 --> 00:03:30,267 Speaker 3: the most innovative. They tend to be able to use 66 00:03:30,307 --> 00:03:32,507 Speaker 3: the ball better than most teams they mix up their 67 00:03:32,547 --> 00:03:34,867 Speaker 3: game management well, kick run passing. 68 00:03:35,427 --> 00:03:36,827 Speaker 2: That's where they've been world leaders. 69 00:03:36,827 --> 00:03:40,067 Speaker 3: The skill sets are tighter and better than most other teams, 70 00:03:40,107 --> 00:03:43,387 Speaker 3: and they deliver under pressure, which has been another factor. 71 00:03:43,747 --> 00:03:46,587 Speaker 2: All of these things appear to be on the descent. 72 00:03:48,307 --> 00:03:50,347 Speaker 3: I would argue that South Africa and I looked at 73 00:03:50,347 --> 00:03:53,747 Speaker 3: the world's best attacking team, followed by Argentina, followed by England, 74 00:03:53,787 --> 00:03:57,067 Speaker 3: followed by France, maybe not in that order, so that 75 00:03:57,107 --> 00:03:58,827 Speaker 3: would be an area I think they need to look 76 00:03:58,827 --> 00:04:00,987 Speaker 3: at their back line full stop. They haven't found a 77 00:04:01,027 --> 00:04:06,027 Speaker 3: midfield combination that feels like the right one. They're back 78 00:04:06,107 --> 00:04:10,067 Speaker 3: three again, haven't found a combination there. They're working under 79 00:04:10,107 --> 00:04:12,667 Speaker 3: the high ball, and Madley was actually not bad tonight. 80 00:04:12,827 --> 00:04:15,107 Speaker 3: They took a few good, good, clean high catchers and 81 00:04:15,147 --> 00:04:17,507 Speaker 3: they had They had a big bearing on how the 82 00:04:17,587 --> 00:04:20,987 Speaker 3: game played out. But that's an area under scrutiny. The 83 00:04:21,107 --> 00:04:26,067 Speaker 3: general kicking game under scrutiny, and even the defense because 84 00:04:26,187 --> 00:04:30,027 Speaker 3: bizarrely that's actually the second excuse me, highest points total 85 00:04:30,067 --> 00:04:32,187 Speaker 3: Whales have ever scored against the All Blacks tonight. 86 00:04:32,907 --> 00:04:34,307 Speaker 2: So it was an open game. 87 00:04:34,347 --> 00:04:36,347 Speaker 3: It was a loose game, but you'd still be when 88 00:04:36,387 --> 00:04:38,467 Speaker 3: you look at the defense, which again has been a 89 00:04:38,467 --> 00:04:39,907 Speaker 3: little bit erratic all year. 90 00:04:41,267 --> 00:04:44,867 Speaker 4: What I read will interest your pace during the week 91 00:04:44,907 --> 00:04:50,347 Speaker 4: talking about David Kirk's nuclear option and that involved a 92 00:04:50,507 --> 00:04:53,587 Speaker 4: change at the very top of the coaching structure. Can 93 00:04:53,627 --> 00:04:55,987 Speaker 4: you see a scenario under which that happens. 94 00:04:57,027 --> 00:05:00,067 Speaker 3: Yep, Yeah, I think you've got to be realistic about 95 00:05:00,107 --> 00:05:02,747 Speaker 3: these things and it'd be a tough decision that would 96 00:05:03,027 --> 00:05:05,107 Speaker 3: It would be unpressure that entered for New Zealand to 97 00:05:05,227 --> 00:05:08,387 Speaker 3: do that, but right halfway point of a World Cup cycle, 98 00:05:09,667 --> 00:05:11,307 Speaker 3: and you have to if you want to be the 99 00:05:11,347 --> 00:05:13,827 Speaker 3: best team in the world. You've created this ambition to 100 00:05:13,867 --> 00:05:18,427 Speaker 3: be number one, to build a billion dollar brand on 101 00:05:18,507 --> 00:05:21,787 Speaker 3: the back of the old lacks. You want to win 102 00:05:21,827 --> 00:05:23,867 Speaker 3: the World Cup in twenty seven. Right now, there's a 103 00:05:23,907 --> 00:05:27,427 Speaker 3: big gap between New Zealand and South Africa, and probably 104 00:05:27,747 --> 00:05:31,467 Speaker 3: a gap between New Zealand and England and France and 105 00:05:31,867 --> 00:05:35,027 Speaker 3: possibly there I said there's one there's one building between 106 00:05:35,067 --> 00:05:38,187 Speaker 3: New Zealand and Argentina possibly at the moment as well. 107 00:05:38,187 --> 00:05:40,387 Speaker 3: So you look at all that and go okay, so 108 00:05:40,987 --> 00:05:43,907 Speaker 3: we're in fourth or fifth place realistically despite the world 109 00:05:44,027 --> 00:05:49,147 Speaker 3: ranking senior and second, what is the level of confidence 110 00:05:49,507 --> 00:05:53,987 Speaker 3: that this current group can change the trajectory of this team. 111 00:05:54,067 --> 00:05:55,947 Speaker 2: Can they catch South Africa? 112 00:05:56,027 --> 00:05:58,867 Speaker 3: Can they build a team, a game plan, a consistency 113 00:05:59,387 --> 00:06:02,147 Speaker 3: that is going to turn New Zealand into world champions 114 00:06:02,147 --> 00:06:05,347 Speaker 3: in two years time. If you don't believe that, and 115 00:06:05,427 --> 00:06:08,947 Speaker 3: if you think that you know that that's unlikely to happen, 116 00:06:09,347 --> 00:06:11,987 Speaker 3: then you have to seriously consider making the change now 117 00:06:12,027 --> 00:06:15,747 Speaker 3: to maximize the time that whoever you choose to make 118 00:06:16,027 --> 00:06:19,427 Speaker 3: you who comes into as a change, that you're giving 119 00:06:19,467 --> 00:06:22,547 Speaker 3: them the time that they will need to prepare a 120 00:06:22,587 --> 00:06:24,907 Speaker 3: team and you know, rebuild it and do whatever they 121 00:06:24,947 --> 00:06:26,507 Speaker 3: need to do to take it to the World Cup. 122 00:06:26,627 --> 00:06:30,707 Speaker 3: So look, it's cutthroat and people need to be serious 123 00:06:30,707 --> 00:06:32,467 Speaker 3: about that, and they need to be mature about that 124 00:06:32,547 --> 00:06:33,947 Speaker 3: and go, this is the gig. 125 00:06:34,107 --> 00:06:35,707 Speaker 2: That's what high performance looks like. 126 00:06:37,587 --> 00:06:41,107 Speaker 4: Can you see them doing it? Would they have the courage, 127 00:06:41,147 --> 00:06:44,787 Speaker 4: would they have the bottle to do it? To change 128 00:06:44,787 --> 00:06:47,227 Speaker 4: all Blacks coaches midway through a World Cup cycle? 129 00:06:47,947 --> 00:06:48,187 Speaker 2: Yeah? 130 00:06:48,387 --> 00:06:51,187 Speaker 3: I think that the danger of that is it would 131 00:06:51,227 --> 00:06:53,947 Speaker 3: be could be overblown and say, well, you know, only 132 00:06:53,987 --> 00:06:56,547 Speaker 3: two years, two years a long time in international rugby. 133 00:06:57,107 --> 00:06:59,787 Speaker 3: Plenty of other teams have done it in World Cup 134 00:06:59,827 --> 00:07:04,587 Speaker 3: cycles and had good results. Sometimes it hasn't delivered, sometimes 135 00:07:04,627 --> 00:07:08,227 Speaker 3: it has, so there's no way of knowing. I think 136 00:07:08,267 --> 00:07:10,827 Speaker 3: the issue would be not so. I mean, you'd have 137 00:07:10,867 --> 00:07:13,747 Speaker 3: to challenge at the risk of changing against the risk 138 00:07:13,827 --> 00:07:16,947 Speaker 3: of not changing. That's definitely a question you need to ask. 139 00:07:17,507 --> 00:07:19,827 Speaker 3: But circularly you would need to ask if you're going 140 00:07:19,907 --> 00:07:23,627 Speaker 3: to make that change, you'd be doing sort of time 141 00:07:23,667 --> 00:07:25,907 Speaker 3: where you'd have to control the process of who you 142 00:07:25,907 --> 00:07:29,627 Speaker 3: would who would come in to replace, And that would 143 00:07:29,667 --> 00:07:31,907 Speaker 3: be the question that I think people would have is 144 00:07:32,387 --> 00:07:35,387 Speaker 3: would would New Zealand RUG be be certain or confident 145 00:07:35,547 --> 00:07:41,267 Speaker 3: right now given contracting situations and personnel availability, that if 146 00:07:41,307 --> 00:07:43,907 Speaker 3: they were to make a change, would they necessarily be 147 00:07:43,907 --> 00:07:48,467 Speaker 3: able to upgrade what they currently have now. Clearly Jamie 148 00:07:48,547 --> 00:07:51,627 Speaker 3: Joseph has been parked as the guy in waiting, having 149 00:07:51,667 --> 00:07:55,667 Speaker 3: taken control of the All Black fifteen last week, and 150 00:07:55,787 --> 00:07:59,227 Speaker 3: clearly he's coached at international level with Japan. He's experienced, 151 00:07:59,747 --> 00:08:02,347 Speaker 3: so he would be the guy. But the question then 152 00:08:02,427 --> 00:08:06,307 Speaker 3: would be would he be able to gather up enough 153 00:08:06,387 --> 00:08:09,627 Speaker 3: people around them to give the confidence that he's going 154 00:08:09,667 --> 00:08:13,067 Speaker 3: to put together, you know, a team and he might 155 00:08:13,107 --> 00:08:15,267 Speaker 3: be able to keep some of the existing guys. He 156 00:08:15,387 --> 00:08:17,227 Speaker 3: might think, yeah, look, I would probably come in and 157 00:08:17,307 --> 00:08:19,387 Speaker 3: keep one or two of them, but that would be it, 158 00:08:19,467 --> 00:08:21,747 Speaker 3: because it really is about a team. It's not about 159 00:08:21,747 --> 00:08:24,267 Speaker 3: one guy. It's about you. Can you put all the 160 00:08:24,307 --> 00:08:27,467 Speaker 3: pieces in place? And that would be the question. So, 161 00:08:27,747 --> 00:08:31,187 Speaker 3: and I don't know necessarily because I don't know availability. 162 00:08:31,667 --> 00:08:33,507 Speaker 3: I don't know how easy it would be to extricate 163 00:08:33,547 --> 00:08:37,947 Speaker 3: people from around the world if this job suddenly became available. 164 00:08:38,347 --> 00:08:40,987 Speaker 3: So these are big questions that you'd have to weigh 165 00:08:41,027 --> 00:08:42,747 Speaker 3: up and work out absolutely. 166 00:08:42,827 --> 00:08:44,547 Speaker 4: And the obvious one is you point out is Tony 167 00:08:44,547 --> 00:08:46,987 Speaker 4: Brown but contracted with the spring Box for what that's 168 00:08:46,987 --> 00:08:50,827 Speaker 4: worth through until twenty twenty seven, plenty of food for thought. Gregor, 169 00:08:50,867 --> 00:08:52,387 Speaker 4: thank you so much for joining us. Might have loved 170 00:08:52,387 --> 00:08:53,907 Speaker 4: to coverage of us too. I look forward to seeing 171 00:08:53,907 --> 00:08:57,667 Speaker 4: you back home my pleasure. That's Gregor Paul from the 172 00:08:57,787 --> 00:08:58,947 Speaker 4: n Said Herald. 173 00:08:59,547 --> 00:09:02,707 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 174 00:09:02,867 --> 00:09:06,107 Speaker 1: to news Talks it'd be weekends from midday, or follow 175 00:09:06,147 --> 00:09:07,787 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.