1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Business of Tech powered by Two Degrees Business. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: I'm Peter Griffin and this week I'm in London with 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: the first of two interviews with promising New Zealand startups 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: using London as a beachhead into the European market. It's 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: an odd atmosphere in London, to be honest. The place 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: is bustling as usual, so many tourists, so much business 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: going on. It's one of the true commercial centers off Europe. 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: But the UK post Brexit has some serious issues with 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 1: significant budget shortfalls and a sluggish economy. But it's always 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: a great place to do business. As Matt Herbert, the 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: co founder of Auckland headquartered startup Tracksuit, explained to me 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: in this episode. Tracksuit is one of the country's hottest 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: startups at the moment, having enjoyed phenomenal growth and raised 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: forty two million dollars in a Series B funding round 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: in June. Tracksuit is revolutionizing the way brands track their 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: health and reputation, making powerful brand analytics accessible to not 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: just Fortune five hundreds, but also to up and coming 18 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: challenger brands. We'll explore tracksuits journey from a New Zealand 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: idea to a global operation, tracking over ten thousand brands 20 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: and attracting major funding from the world's top consumer investors. 21 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: Matt opens up about building a tech business through recessions 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: and why maintaining a uniquely keyweed DNA humility, simplicity, cutting 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: edge tech, and a fair dose of self deprecating humor 24 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: is key to standing out internationally. So if you want 25 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: an inside view on building a data driven tech company, 26 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: riding the wave of AI disruption. 27 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: And bringing a unique New Zealand. 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: Perspective to global markets, you want want to miss this 29 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: conversation with Tracksuits Matt Herbert, recorded at the company's UK 30 00:01:48,320 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: headquarters in London. Here's the interview with Matt. So, Matt, 31 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: welcome to the business of tech. 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: How are you doing very well? Nice to see you. 33 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, nice to see you. And we're in this pretty 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: flash looking working space here in Farringdon and London tech Space. 35 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: It's called how did you find your way here? 36 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: Tech Space? Yes, we moved in here early in the year. 37 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: It's one of I think the best co working spaces 38 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: that I've seen over my career. We have a team 39 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: of twenty here in an office. We're actually gravitated a 40 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 2: few more Australian and New Zealand founders and companies in here, 41 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 2: so nice to see some familiar faces, but also good 42 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: to be in the heart of London. 43 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is really your bridgehead into the UK. 44 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: As you say, you've got what twenty staff here. You 45 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: raise some money earlier in the year to fund your expansion, 46 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: which is great, and the US, which is your biggest 47 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: market now. So we'll get into all of that, but 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: really just want to dial back a little bit to 49 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: recap how you came to track. So you've got a 50 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: a really interesting career in the lead up to this. 51 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:05,839 Speaker 1: Give us the part in history all the way back 52 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: to uber and mish Guru, the sort of brand adjacent 53 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: stuff that got you thinking about in formulating the idea. 54 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: For a crack suit. That's right. Yeah, Hey, well I 55 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: think my career. If I look back on my career, 56 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: I've always been someone that has had a great interest 57 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 2: in brands. I'll even go back to when I was 58 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: playing soccer football at Eastern Suburbs and Auckland and McDonald's 59 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: sponsored Player of the Day. I look back, that is 60 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: one of the greatest brand marketing plays for McDonald's. How 61 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: do you get in there right from the start on 62 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: the football fields. And I've always kind of thought of 63 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: myself as someone quite interested in creative industries, but never 64 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: thought of myself as the artist or the painter. But 65 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: how do I connect kind of creativity in business? And 66 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: that's kind of been a big part of what we've 67 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: been doing at track Suit. But if I look back, 68 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: the really fundamental change in my my career was when 69 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: I had the oupper unity to join the early team 70 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 2: with the rollout of Uber in New Zealand in twenty fourteen. 71 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: I was studying christ Church, studying law and science, but 72 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: also basically doing as much as I could with the 73 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: Uber team and for me having the experience and the 74 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: connection of a mass Uber was a massive business and 75 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: a massive brand coming out of the Northern Hemisphere. But 76 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: this was before the regulations, before people knew what Uber were, 77 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: and you know, how do you try to talk to 78 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: people about jumping in a stranger's car? And now you 79 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: look at what Uber's done, And I look back on 80 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: those couple of years really really fondly in terms of brands, 81 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: business but operating like a startup. 82 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it was controversial, it was sort of a 83 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: gray area in the law about what it was to 84 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: be an operator. You had Travis you know, this is 85 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: very hide charging CEO and founder of Uber at the time, 86 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: who was under pressured to you know, to get out 87 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: there and get as much traction as possible. But the 88 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: brand caught on very quickly. What do you think in reflection, 89 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: it was about Uber that just made it such a 90 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: something that people were attracted to. 91 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: I think looking back, Uber to me still has one 92 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 2: of the best blueprints of how to scale globally fast 93 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: and effectively. It was I mean, they made the call 94 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: to put young, smart, hungry people into new markets like Auckland, 95 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 2: will Sydney, and they just said, gone figure it out. 96 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: It was supported by Global but there was a team 97 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 2: in Auckland and New Zealand. I think it was twelve 98 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: of us Richard Menzies and Michael Cook, the two early 99 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 2: guys at Uber. They had to lobby governments, there was regulations, 100 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 2: there was the whole process around how do you disrupt 101 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 2: and change industries in the right way. But there was 102 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 2: a formula which I think a lot of businesses now 103 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: everybody's still trying to figure out how do you grow 104 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: at scale and how do you empower teams and how 105 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 2: do you get the right people in to go to market. 106 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: Then man Uber did a phenomenal job and so a 107 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: lot of my time there and my experience with Ubert 108 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 2: has ultimately led to a lot of the way I 109 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: and we have looked at how do we grow tracksuit, 110 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: which is quite cool to reflect on around starting one market, 111 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: when the next market, hire great people, empower and scale 112 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 2: out and go with the demanders. So yeah, Goober was great. 113 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 2: And then Miss Guru started by some great guys Tom 114 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 2: Jacob and Ashok and first time founders out of New Zealands, 115 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 2: saw snapchatters of social media popping up and every brand 116 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: and agency in the world McDonald's Pepsie Union lever was 117 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: trying to figure out there's a whole lot of young 118 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 2: people in a way to connect with young people, but 119 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: how do you go about it? And so the Miss 120 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 2: Guru team early days basically built Snapchat onto a computer 121 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: so that the biggest brands and agencies in the world 122 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: could manage their Snapchat accounts. And it was wildfire, it was. 123 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 2: And so I had a few friends that was there. 124 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 2: I joined. I must have joined in the first kind 125 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: of ten people. That's where I met my now co 126 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 2: founder Connor started on the same day we look back, 127 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 2: this is eight years ago or so, sitting in Wynyard Quarter. 128 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 2: Connor was going to New York. I was going over 129 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: to Australia and that's where we really got into the 130 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: world of brands, marketing, technology startups. Marketing analytics has been 131 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 2: a really great transition into what we're doing now TRAKSU. 132 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: But misgu was a phenomenal. 133 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and really sort of interesting strategy. I guess it 134 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: was off the time. Snapchat was on the ascendancy at 135 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: the time, so building a sort of a platform and 136 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: a business around it made sense. 137 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it made a lot of sense, and every brand, 138 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 2: every agency wanted to be on it. And there are 139 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: a whole lot of learnings as well that came with 140 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: the growth of MSGREU was built on and reliant on 141 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 2: another business which has its which has it highs and lows. 142 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: I remember, I think it might have been one of 143 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: the Kardashian I think it was Kendall or Kylie Jenner 144 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: who tweeted something about him off Snapchat, right, And there 145 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: was the time that even the co founder was changing 146 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: a whole lot of the designs and all the social 147 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 2: media manager goes, well, it's naturally going to be around 148 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: and the YouTube stories and Instagram stories and it was 149 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: such a volatile but fast moving but interesting place. Unfortunately 150 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: Snapchat kind of went off the boil a little bit, 151 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: and you know, and and and so and so did 152 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: some of the some of the business but amazing learning 153 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: experiences and highlights of working with the biggest brands, the 154 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: biggest agencies and building technology that no one else was doing. 155 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: So yeah, and yeah, Connor and I met each other 156 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: on the on the first day there, and four and 157 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: a half years later we're into tracksit. 158 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, incredible, and it seems like the real sort of 159 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: driving idea was you're working with all these brands and 160 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: a lot of them are deep pocketed companies, so they 161 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: can afford to buy a lot of analysis about about 162 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: their brands. But not every company can can do that. 163 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,239 Speaker 1: And I know this in New Zealand, we probably underinvest 164 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 1: and you know, we invest in the in the bottom 165 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: of the funnel stuff the sales because you can track that. 166 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: You can see this is shifting the new in terms 167 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: of what our salespeople are doing, what our advertising is doing. 168 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: But further up, trying to get to build an audience 169 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: and build brand loyalty. We underinvest in that and I 170 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: think that's what the what you were aiming at was 171 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: try and democratize us. How can you build a dashboard 172 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: that you can track everything there is to know about 173 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: your brand and the sentiment about your brand. It's not 174 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: going to cost you fifty thousand dollars a year to 175 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: do it. 176 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: That's right. I was fortunate to link back up with Connor. 177 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: We're both ended up back in New Zealand around the pandemic, 178 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 2: and then we're spending a lot of time with a 179 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: guy called James Herman who's got his studio previous and 180 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: available in Auckland, one of the world leading marketing effectiveness leaders, 181 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: and as well as working with TRA the research agency. 182 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: And it was Yeah, it was this concept of for 183 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 2: the last fifteen years, businesses have been so focused on 184 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 2: sales and conversions and performance marketing, where you put a 185 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: dollar in Semessa and you get three dollars back in 186 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 2: finance teams and hunting teams could understand finally, what on 187 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: earth is our marketing dollars doing. Then it got to 188 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: a point where you were putting a dollar in and 189 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 2: you were getting eighty cents back. Oh no, this doesn't 190 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 2: actually work anymore. The cost of acquisition, the efficiencies of 191 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 2: those digital channels, and as you were saying, everybody had 192 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 2: been so focused on converting at the expense of building 193 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: your business and your brands over the long term. And 194 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: there's this really nice and effective audience engagement with piece 195 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: we do, whether it's a key notes, and it's come 196 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 2: from James and his concept of James Herman and his 197 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: concept of future demand. And we look at the audience 198 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: and you say, you know, marketing has really got two roles, 199 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: and we'll present this and so ask the audience who 200 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: here is considering buying a phone in the next three months, 201 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: And depending on the size, you might get two, three, 202 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 2: four hands go up. And then the next question is 203 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 2: who's considering buying a phone in the next two years, 204 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: And everybody's hand goes up, right, And it's like that, 205 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: right there is the concept of what marketing's job to do. 206 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: You need to sell to the people that are ready 207 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 2: to buy from you. Great, they might be five percent 208 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: of the room, but you've also got to build awareness 209 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 2: and familiarity and connection with those who aren't ready to 210 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 2: buy from you. Right now, but we'll do down the track. 211 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 2: And that's the role of brand building, and that's the 212 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 2: role of increasing awareness and familiarity. But there hasn't been 213 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: a way to kind of measure and communicate that. And 214 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 2: so that was the hypothesis with with tracks. How do 215 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: you build a company and a platform that really highlights 216 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 2: how well are we building, how well our business is known, considered, 217 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 2: and what people think can feel. Now, we want to 218 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 2: do this all the time and we'll make this a 219 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 2: really important part that helps drive business decisions. And so 220 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 2: four and a half years ago we set out to 221 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: go and take that to the world. 222 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: And obviously there's you know, there's there's market research that's 223 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: surveying and that sort of thing, but there's other signals 224 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: as well to sort of get that real time sort 225 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: of view, social media channels and all that. So how 226 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: did you approach putting all of that together into this 227 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: sort of dashboard for a big brand to be able 228 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: to pivot based on that information. Okay, this is working, 229 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: we need to do something else. I mean, it was 230 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: a lot of big incumbent players that were working in 231 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: this space. What was the edge that you brought to it? 232 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: The edge that we brought to it was simplifying the 233 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: fundamentals and making it incredibly accessible and so there is 234 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: no shortage of data and analytics and insights out there, 235 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 2: but how do you make it simplified and for something 236 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 2: that people are actually going to use? And so that's 237 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: what we took with tracks that we see what are 238 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 2: the biggest research businesses in the world doing when it 239 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 2: comes to brand tracking. We went and spoke to We 240 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: had a list of one hundred cmos and brand directors 241 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 2: in New Zealand and we said, when it comes to 242 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: brand tracking, what do you like? What are you not like? 243 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 2: Here's an idea that we think might solve you solve 244 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: your problems based on what we've heard from you. And 245 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: we're basically getting told we'd love just to see the 246 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 2: exec summary of the big research reports that were spending 247 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of dollars on in one hundred page pdf. 248 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 2: We actually just want to see the exec summary. How 249 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 2: big is our market, how well is our brand known 250 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: and considered, what do people think and feel about us? 251 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: And how does that compare to the competitors. And we 252 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: basically said, if we could give that to you all 253 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,719 Speaker 2: the time for a fraction of the cost, how do 254 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 2: you feel? And after sixty seven conversations, we had eleven 255 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 2: businesses pay us upfront, annual subscription, angual licenses. And so 256 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 2: we took the first one hundred and ten thousand dollars 257 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 2: and built the first prototype of the product. And that's 258 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 2: what the early stages of track suits. So we didn't 259 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 2: have a product, but we had the likes of Simplicity 260 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: and all Press and Good George Bear and Walkland Counts 261 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 2: all some of these really early brands that took a 262 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 2: punt on us, and we built the built the first version, 263 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 2: delivered and from there we continue to scale out. 264 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: Well, you've got what over one thousand customers now, yeah, 265 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: over a thousand customers and tracking over ten thousand brands. 266 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: We've we've got one of the largest data sets on 267 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: brand t health, on consumer brands in the world. 268 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 2: So it's early days though as well. 269 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: It is, Yeah, but I mean you raised twenty five 270 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: million dollars recently Series B fundraising, and interestingly about that, 271 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: some of the money going in there was from sort 272 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: of investors who have a consumer brand sort of background, 273 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: so they're obviously going, wow, you know, this is exactly 274 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: what the sorts of coffee brands or whatever. We invest 275 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: in consumer fast moving consumer good brands. This is the 276 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: missing bit, so we want to invest in that. Yeah, 277 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: we're fortunate to have had great investors. 278 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: We bootstrapped the business for the first eighteen months and 279 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: so we needed to have a really responsible an efficient business, 280 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 2: which was great. Then we raised our seed round from 281 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: Blackbird and ice House were involved in that. We did 282 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 2: our Series A from Altas and footwork out in San Francisco, 283 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 2: and then the most recent our Series B was led 284 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 2: by VMG, who you're talking about now on VMG is 285 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: a really well respected consumer fund out of the US 286 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 2: who have also been building out their consumer technology. So 287 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: they're really looking at we know how great brands and 288 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: businesses in the consumer space are built, whether it's a 289 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: Spindre of Sparkling Water or Quest Protein bars, or you 290 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 2: look at their portfolio in the US, it's incredible. But 291 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 2: they were also looking at what is the technology that 292 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 2: helps these businesses make great decisions, and so it was, 293 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: you know, from a strategic perspective, the links into the 294 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: US consumer brands and while we can also play a 295 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: really important part from the technology that we're providing vmgs 296 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 2: being fantastic and a really great partnership. 297 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've heard I think you guys say yourself 298 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: but also commentators that have looked at the product that 299 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: you are a very product centric business. What does that 300 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: mean to be like that? I think Rod Drury considered 301 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: himself that as well. He wanted to make accounting software 302 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: sexy with Zero, and it seems like there's a bit 303 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: of that ethos and what you're doing with brand tracking software. 304 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: I think there are a lot of parallels without but 305 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: without actually thinking about it or being intense all looking 306 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: at what Zero had done. It very similar Zero making 307 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 2: accounting sexy. I mean, we hope to make market research sexy. 308 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: I don't know if too many people that grow up 309 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: or speak to course or careers advice and they say, 310 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: you know, it would be a great industry market research, 311 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 2: but such a big and important industry. And from a 312 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 2: product lens, that's what we've wanted to do at Trasitors 313 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: have a really great product that's incredibly easy to use, 314 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: it's intuitive, it's accessible, and it drives this common language. 315 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 2: And that's really what we want to do. How do 316 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: we drive a common language to help people measure and 317 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 2: communicate the value of brand common language. Whether you're a marketer, 318 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 2: whether you are an insights professional, where you're a CSFO, 319 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: we give you a really simple, clean, effective way to 320 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 2: understand what do we need to do as a business 321 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: and is what we're doing working. Yeah, So from a 322 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 2: product lends you know, the technology and the scale of 323 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 2: what we've been able to do within research to bring 324 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: it down to a fraction of the cost to keep 325 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: it simple while also really investing to our own brand 326 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: as well. So it's product, it's brand that it's focusing 327 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: on the ends the end customer. But from a brand, 328 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 2: I mean when I see our software engineers talk at 329 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 2: the Snowflake conference and doing team nutes and they're wearing tracksuits, 330 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 2: I mean our whole team buys into the brand that 331 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 2: we're building and we're trying to be a reflection of 332 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: the power that a brand has as well as a 333 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 2: good product and pricing and packaging and distribution. So if 334 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: we can do the fundamentals hopefully of marketing effectiveness and fundamentals, 335 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 2: then that's what we're trying to support each of each 336 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: of our customers do. 337 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of a challenging area to working because 338 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: obviously maintaining a competitive and a really attractive product is 339 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: a challenge in itself, and you've got to build a 340 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: high performance team to do that, which you've done. But 341 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 1: it's also a fast moving industry that you're focused on, 342 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: which is market research and branding. So interesting how you 343 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: sort of keep on the cutting edge of that. Presumably 344 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: you've got really good, really relationship with the ones who 345 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: are out there on the front line doing market research 346 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: and getting insights into thousands of consumers around the world. 347 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: But then you've got you've got big, sort of massive 348 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: shifts around artificial intelligence. 349 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: Search is changing. 350 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: AI platforms like Perplexity and nowt of becoming search engines 351 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: and buying or creating their own web browsers, So you've 352 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: got to keep on top all of that as well. 353 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 2: That's right, And so there's four pillars that I really 354 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 2: look at. It's around our brand, strategy, expertise, our research expertise. 355 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: We are fundamentally here technology business, so how world leading 356 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: in our technology and then our own brand. So those 357 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 2: are kind of the four pillars to say, if we 358 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 2: can be world leading in each of those four, then 359 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: we'll know we're confident that we'll stay ahead and lead 360 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 2: the lead the industry. And so there's absolutely these changes 361 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 2: in the research, but then there's also the speed that 362 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: products can be built now means that you know, we've 363 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 2: got to be right on top of and ahead of 364 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: best in brand technology research in our own brand and 365 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: the you know, the artificial intelligence and AI and just 366 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 2: the signals that are coming through now, that's where we're 367 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 2: really positioning tracts it as how do we be the 368 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 2: place to understand how well your brands know and consider 369 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,479 Speaker 2: what people think and feel that surveys, that's panels, and 370 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 2: there's you know, that whole world is changing as well, 371 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 2: and so what's the hybrid of real people and synthetic 372 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 2: data and socialisting and the changes in search. Ultimately the 373 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: end of the day, we're still answering and helping people 374 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 2: answer that question how well are we knowing what do 375 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 2: people think and feel? And that can come from a 376 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: lot of places now. 377 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: In terms of artificial intelligence, is it having much of 378 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: a role in your development process in terms of creating 379 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: code right now? 380 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: It's something that we've had ingrained and tracks it right 381 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: from the big the first big change that we were 382 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 2: able to do as a technology business was the speed 383 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: at which we could deliver insights. And so instead of 384 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: having fifty data scientists or analysts at a research consultancy 385 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: taking six weeks to analyze results and create a PDF 386 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: and come and present it to you, we could basically 387 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 2: do that within a couple of days or instantaneously. So 388 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 2: the speed of data also leading to large language models 389 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 2: and the ability to look at perceptions and analyze sentiment 390 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,719 Speaker 2: around brands. And now there's all the internal workflows. Coding 391 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 2: is a huge, huge part of that. Our chief of staff, sorry, 392 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 2: our Dan, our VP of Strategy and Ops, was using 393 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 2: some agentic AI workflows and built and an AEO product 394 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 2: how well is your brand showing up? And the likes 395 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 2: of Claude and Perplexity and chat gbtow. He did that 396 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 2: within a weekend, over six hours. So you look at 397 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 2: that and obviously you know it was just a prototype 398 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: and a test, but just goes to show how fast 399 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 2: things can be spun up. Now, so we'll lean into that. 400 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 2: We are leaning into that we'll always have this mix 401 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 2: of great humans and technology coming together to get most 402 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 2: out of it. 403 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, what does your take sort of seeing all of 404 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: this going on around what is facing brands as the 405 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: way that people discover their products starts to change that. 406 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about zero click sort of situation 407 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: now where you might go to the Google search engine 408 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: and hopefully you'll be featured in the AI overviews section 409 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: that people are increasingly reading on top of search results. 410 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: They may not even actually go to your website, but 411 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: they may come away with some information about your brand 412 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: or your product. That's a complete shift away from it 413 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: was all about pushing people towards your website previously. 414 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: There is a shift happening and the way that brands 415 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 2: are being kind of awareness and consideration these new search engines, 416 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 2: where's chat, GBT, where it's clawed, whether it's you know, 417 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: Google and geminized. It's something that absolutely businesses need to 418 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: take take a look at and be aware of. And 419 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 2: I think there's also a world in which it's still 420 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 2: you know, it's like SEO. Back in the day, marketing 421 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 2: needed to optimize for a search engine optimization. There are 422 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 2: keywords how do you rank on the first page of Google? 423 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: There was a whole school of thought and a whole 424 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 2: an approach to doing that. You know, I don't know 425 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 2: what that When SEO was the first thing that came out, 426 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 2: but this has called the last kind of ten to 427 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 2: fifteen years and so now it's the aegentic engine optimization. 428 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 2: So definitely something to look at play a part of. 429 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: But there's these crazies that come through and stay on 430 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: top of it, be aware of it. But I think 431 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 2: is also a world and where people still want to 432 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: have a depth of experience where shopping, I think is 433 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 2: an interesting one to look at into that shopping where 434 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 2: Instagram comes out, where you can hate a click to 435 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 2: buy a buy a T shirt. I has heard that 436 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 2: the VP of marketing at Footlockers speak recently who said, 437 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 2: we're all worried about what one click shopping was going 438 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 2: to do. But right now social shopping accounts for something 439 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 2: like fifteen percent of total e commerce. So people are 440 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 2: still wanting a shopping experience. You will still want to 441 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: come to your website to learn more, to browse, to 442 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 2: see what else is going on. And so I don't 443 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: think it's going to be one click and done forever. 444 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 2: But absolutely within the space of how's your brand or business, 445 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: no one explored, considered understood we'd need to be aware 446 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: of what these are, what these search engines are doing. 447 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: I guess the other trend it's in the last few 448 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: years around brands that has become apparent is how quickly 449 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: brand sentiment can be created or destroyed, driven by social media. 450 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: So we've seen the the whole sort of woke criticism, 451 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: you know, with people bending the need football players or 452 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: bud Light being criticized for an ad campaign it was 453 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: considered to be woke or something like that. Presumably you 454 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: can see the signals straight away when sentiment starts to 455 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: turn it against a brand for some of the activity 456 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: that it's been doing in the marketplace. One of the 457 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: roles that. 458 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 2: We play at tracks it is we give an objective 459 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 2: view around what is the whole market of consumers thin 460 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 2: can feel about a brand. And over the course of 461 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 2: history there will be brands who have done good things 462 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: and done bad things and had debate, and you know, 463 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 2: we remain objective and representing what is the actual conversation 464 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 2: going out. I think there was an interesting one to 465 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 2: look at is around the American Eagle campaign. I'm not 466 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 2: sure if you familiar with the American Eagle A you. 467 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: Eb to just summarize what that was. 468 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 2: One of the one of the campaigns we're talking about 469 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 2: is the debate or the backlash around American Eagle who 470 00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 2: came out with a campaign with Sydney Sweeney around blue genes, 471 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 2: and readers can go and have a look at either 472 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 2: side of it and you know, valid and a lot 473 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 2: of cases, I think maybe over overstated in some or 474 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what the decision making process oil 475 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: or the intent behind it, but it was one that 476 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: got especially in the US, it got it was really 477 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: really polarizing, especially on social media and particular parts of 478 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 2: the US, around who was representing the company, what they 479 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: were talking about blonde, blue eyes genes, and it sparked, 480 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 2: and it sparked debate, you know, for various reasons, and 481 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: a whole lot of the question, oh my gosh, how 482 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: damaging is this going to be to the brand? What's 483 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: it going to do? And what we're able to do 484 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 2: attracts it and the role that we play as an 485 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: objective measurement partners, we give just that reflection around what 486 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 2: does the total consumer group actually think and feel, And 487 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 2: when you segment it by different demographics or regions or 488 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 2: parts of countries, you're able to start to see where 489 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 2: are perceptions shifting where might we need to react, how 490 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 2: well do we need to react? But from what we saw, 491 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: it hasn't had as bigger impact as potentially what people 492 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 2: thought if you were only on particular social media channels 493 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 2: every single day and their share price I think went 494 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 2: up anyway as well. But yeah, not to get in 495 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 2: kind of the politics of it, but really interesting to 496 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 2: look at what signals as a business or someone working, 497 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 2: what signals are you looking at and how are you 498 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 2: looking not in your own echo chamber. It's very easy 499 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 2: to get hyped up around your own water cooler because 500 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 2: you're thinking and concerned with your brandle your business every 501 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 2: single day. You know, you know what your business means 502 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 2: or should mean. You're talking about it every single day, 503 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: But consumers aren't thinking about your business every single day, 504 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 2: and so how do you get that two way feedback? 505 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 2: But brands can bounce back as well. Yeah, it doesn't 506 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: need to be to the defining thing for a brand. 507 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: And I guess taking that evidence data driven approach is, 508 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: you know, don't necessarily freak out if suddenly you're getting 509 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: criticism going viral about you. What are the actual underlying 510 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: signals saying about what the bulk of your consumers actually 511 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 1: think about the brand. That's the important thing and that's 512 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: what you. 513 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 2: Bring to it. That's all right, and we absolutely support 514 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: the internal reflection and the ongoing what should our strategy be, 515 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 2: what should our messaging be, and how do we iterate 516 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 2: in the right way? Ongoing and so a reflection of 517 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 2: the market is what we're giving our customers, brands and businesses. 518 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: So one thousand customers now as you say, ten thousand 519 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: brands that you're tracking, which is great, and you've sort 520 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: of from a pricing point of view, democratized the cost 521 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: of doing that, which is to a more manageable cost. 522 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: So you can get smaller companies tracking their brands as well, 523 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: which is great. That capital that you raise, presumably that's 524 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: gone into creating a beachhead in the UK, in the 525 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: US where you have what thirty people in the US, 526 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: you've got one hundred and fifty across Australian in New Zealand. Now, 527 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: what else does that cash give you in terms of 528 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: runway to do? Now? 529 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the cash was raised to just fuel what 530 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 2: we wanted to do and so as continue to set 531 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 2: up our teams and markets and support our customers in 532 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 2: the Northern Hemisphere, the US and the UK. Just this 533 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: week we've announced that we're now tracking twenty five international 534 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 2: markets and so if you want brand tracking in Italy 535 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 2: or in Germany or in Singapore, that can be done now. 536 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: And so really doing more of what we've been providing 537 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 2: our customers based off the back of the demands US 538 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 2: and UK businesses saying can you do this in Europe? 539 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: Can you do this in Asia? Same as Australian businesses 540 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: we've got growing we've got growing markets in Southeast Asia 541 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: or in the US, and so just being able to 542 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 2: follow and provide value for our customers and agencies in 543 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 2: the markets that they want as well as well as 544 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 2: continue to double down on our products, innovation and the 545 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 2: velocity all focused on how do we build the best 546 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 2: company possible for people that using brand to drive back 547 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 2: great businesses and advanced technology and the go to market teams. 548 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: What's the key we DNA off this business? You know 549 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: that you want to continue to imprint, you know, no 550 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: matter how big it gets, the New. 551 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 2: Zealand story will always be part of the part of 552 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 2: the folklore of Tracksuit. Every year or for the last 553 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 2: couple of years, we've done a team off site where 554 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: we've flown everybody into New Zealand to connect with each other. 555 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 2: You know, great connection culture, you know, go over the 556 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 2: you know what are what are our core values and 557 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 2: how do we operate and setting these markets up and 558 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 2: it's it's really cool about to bring people from the UK, 559 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: from the from the US into New Zealand and show 560 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 2: here this is the home of where Tracksuit was, but 561 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 2: also being really intentional about we want to grow a 562 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 2: global business and that's why we've got one of the 563 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: first exercises we did, what are our core values? Put 564 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 2: them on a whiteboard. We just struck them off that 565 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 2: it might sound good, but do we really live and 566 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: breathe it. And we got down to about five or 567 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 2: six of our core values which have stayed the same, 568 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 2: things like be a cheerleader and a champion for each other, 569 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 2: for the industry, for brandsen champion brand, keep it simple, 570 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 2: leave it better than you found it. Simplicity is a superpower. 571 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 2: So these have allowed us to really deepen underlying fabric 572 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: of who we are, what's the type of business, how 573 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: do we operate, how do we hire and have that 574 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 2: core underlying fabric. Whether you're in Auckland Sydney, London, New York, Melbourne. 575 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 2: You can tell its tracksuit and the way we show 576 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 2: up and how we operate, But London, New York, Sydney, Auckland, Melbourn, 577 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 2: they're all different than their own right. And I think 578 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 2: that's the thing that we've wanted to make sure is 579 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 2: that the London office is here to support great UK 580 00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 2: businesses and brands build great businesses. The US is is 581 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 2: uniquely positioned that this is tracksuit for the US, but 582 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 2: you do know it's tracksit and that's that underlife Fairbrook 583 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 2: and I think it's a bit of probably Kiwi humor, humility, 584 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: humor not taking ourselves too serious. And I think that's 585 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 2: resonating quite quite well across the across the markets, especially 586 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 2: compared to kind of traditional market research. 587 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that classic Kiwi thing which a lot of 588 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: our company has been very good at, which is frankly 589 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: doing it cheaper as well, you know, doing doing it more, 590 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: creating a more affordable product, whether it's Sir Peter Beck 591 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: with his electron rocket or you know zero or whatever. 592 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,479 Speaker 1: It's actually that's a disruptive quality. I think of what 593 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: you're doing in others is that it's like this doesn't 594 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: have to cost fifty thousand dollars a year. We can 595 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: actually create a beautiful dashboard with all irrelevant information and 596 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: that one pdf that they are New Zealand customers who 597 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: are asking for for a fraction of the price and 598 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: make it sustainable business out of it. 599 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 2: A great thing about coming out of New Zealand was 600 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 2: New Zealand we have a small population and we had 601 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 2: to figure out how do we do market research with 602 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 2: a small population at scale? And so from a technology standpoint, 603 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 2: it forced us to go, there's only a small group 604 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 2: of people, how do we still provide reliable, robust, statistically 605 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 2: significant scale of research and insights. And then when you 606 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 2: go into other markets, it's like, well we've done it 607 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 2: with five six million people when most other populations are 608 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 2: a little larger than that. So that was a great 609 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 2: forcing function, absolutely forcing function. How to do it better, cheaper, 610 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 2: more effective and you can have all of it. 611 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: We're rapidly approaching the end of the year. It won't 612 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: be the big holiday time for you, as it will 613 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: be for a lot of year tracksuit colleagues who'll be 614 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: heading the beach. Hopefully we get a decent summer, but 615 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: interest in your views on what twenty twenty six is 616 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: going to look like. Obviously things are uneven economically around 617 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: the world. New Zealand's not looking so flash at the moment, 618 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: some of the signals. Australia is sort of coming back 619 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: a bit. The US market seems to defire gravity at 620 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: the moment in terms of the stock market. And but yeah, 621 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: interested in what the outlook it is and is your 622 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: business dependent to some extent on it being a buoyant market, 623 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: or how do you help your businesses when things are tough? 624 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: Is it even more important in a recessionary environment to 625 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: really understand what people think of your brand. 626 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 2: We found a track suit at at the back end 627 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: of the pandemic. So it's a really interesting time, I 628 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 2: think to be building businesses. I think since that time 629 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 2: in twenty one, I think there's probably been three different 630 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 2: recessions or hints of recessions globally, and so there'll always 631 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 2: be there will always be something, and that's why it's 632 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: really important for us to be building a sustainable, responsible 633 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 2: business that isn't relying on continuing to raise external capital 634 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 2: just to just to keep the lights on. And so 635 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 2: that's what we're really focused on. Building a responsible and 636 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 2: enduring business. It helps that we're a cost effective solution 637 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 2: in the market. And so if we can help businesses 638 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 2: and agencies and brands free up budget to keep their 639 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 2: marketing working, to continue to build awareness and marketing activity 640 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 2: and not drain at all on research, but also given 641 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 2: them the right signals. I think that's helped us to 642 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: be where we're at and continue to be really confident 643 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 2: in the market. It's cost effective. It's incredibly important to 644 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 2: businesses and also for businesses if you can keep your 645 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 2: marketing going through times of recessions has proved time and 646 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 2: time again that you come out far stronger than when 647 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,280 Speaker 2: people cut budget. If you can keep marketing, keep building 648 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 2: your brands, stay top of minds, then your consistency of 649 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 2: sales continues, Whereas if you turn off and go dark 650 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 2: and then try to pop up two years later, people 651 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 2: have forgotten about you. And so it's really important to 652 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 2: keep it on and being cost effective. That's the way 653 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 2: that we are able to support and each market, each 654 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 2: region is always going through, is always going through something. 655 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: I think visibility in the Northern Hemisphere Europe back out 656 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 2: to Apac Australian there's always something going on. But it's 657 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,439 Speaker 2: staying true to who we work with, how we build 658 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 2: the business, and keeping the lights on. 659 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: Really yeah, it goes back to what you said at 660 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: the start, you know, which is like, you know, five 661 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: percent of the people in front of I. You may 662 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: be willing and able to buy your product right now, 663 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: it's the ninety five percent who if you appeal to 664 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: them well through good brand marketing down the track, we'll 665 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: be able to put their hand up when the economy 666 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: is better and buy an expensive smartphone or whatever it is. 667 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 2: And they're going to gravitate to the brands that they 668 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 2: feel more familiar with. And if you can keep building 669 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 2: that familiarity over soft times and high times, then a 670 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 2: lot of your competition we're cutting budgets and turning things off, 671 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 2: and so if you can stay on and we can 672 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 2: help you stay on, then you're coming out better. It's brilliant. 673 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: Well, thanks so much for having me into the tech 674 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: space and meeting the track Suit team here in Farrington, 675 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: and thanks for coming on the business of tech. 676 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Yeah, Peter, anytime, lovely to see you. 677 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Matt Herbert, co founder of Tracksuit, 678 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: for coming on an incredible business. Some real great insights 679 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: there on scaling a tech business internationally from New Zealand, 680 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: emphasizing the importance of simplifying brand measurement, investing in a 681 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: strong team, staying relentlessly focused on product and customer needs. 682 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: I really love the way that the New Zealand roots 683 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: of this business have been reflected in it as it 684 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 1: goes international. You know, this company is now integral to 685 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: over a thousand companies and ten thousand brands internationally, so 686 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: it's obviously working. The simplicity they're bringing to brand tracking 687 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: is returning dividends. So great to catch up with Matt 688 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: next week I'll bring you another great New Zealand company 689 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,959 Speaker 1: that is also basing itself in London at the moment 690 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: and doing great things. If you enjoyed the episode, please 691 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: like or rate it in your podcast app. It's also 692 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: streaming on iHeartRadio, where you can leave a rating as well. 693 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: Thanks so much to two degrees for sponsoring the Business 694 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: of Tech and I'll be back next week with one 695 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: of the final shows of the year, another cracking interview. 696 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: We'll see you then,