1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Yoda. 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a summer special of 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 2: The Front Page, The Enzid Herald's. 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: Daily news podcast. 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 3: While the Front Page is on summer break, we're taking 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 3: a look back at some of the biggest news stories 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 3: and top rated episodes from the podcast in twenty twenty four. 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: New episodes will. 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:35,319 Speaker 2: Return on January thirteenth. Once it came into power, the 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 2: coalition government signaled everything's on the table when it comes 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 2: to a major shakeup of New Zealand's gun laws. The 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 2: world praised us when we took swift action following the 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 2: christ Church terror attack banning semi automatic firearms and assault rifles, 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: but now a coalition agreement between National and ACT could 15 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: see semi automatics make a return to gun range. Various 16 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: stages of reform are currently being worked through by politicians 17 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: in the US. April twenty marked twenty five years since 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: the Columbine High School massacre, where two teenagers murdered twelve 19 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: students and a teacher. Fifteen year old Daniel Mauser was 20 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 2: one of those killed in the school's library. Daniel's father, 21 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: Tom has spent the last twenty five years advocating for 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: gun control in America, and he joined us on the 23 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: front page to discuss why New Zealand shouldn't be complacent 24 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: when it comes to firearms. 25 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 4: Tom, For New Zealanders who might not know what the 26 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 4: Columbine High School massacre is, are you able to give 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 4: us a brief run through on what actually happened that day? 28 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 5: But Mainstein Daniel was one of the victims of Columbine, 29 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 5: and what happened in that tragedy was that two students 30 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 5: plotted to kill as many students as they could at 31 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 5: the school. They planted two bombs in the cafeteria and 32 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 5: fortunately they didn't explode, but the two students that were 33 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 5: outside with guns and started shooting students and then moved 34 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 5: inside the school and shot dead ten students that were 35 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 5: in the school library, and my son was one of 36 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 5: the victims there, and a total of twelve students and 37 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 5: one teacher were killed. And then the shooters, when they 38 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 5: realized that they were not going to get out of that, 39 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 5: they killed themselves. And that's what really got me involved 40 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 5: in the issue, and in particularly it was the fact 41 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 5: that three of the guns that were used by the 42 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 5: shooters were obtained through a loophole in our gun laws, 43 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 5: and just two weeks before the Columbine tragedy, my son 44 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 5: asked me if I feel that there were loopholes in 45 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 5: that national law that requires that you go through a 46 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 5: background check by a gun, And then two weeks later 47 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 5: he was killed with a gun that was purchased through 48 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 5: one of those loopholes. So that's what really got me 49 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 5: involved in this. I felt that I had to help 50 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 5: close those loopholes in honor of my son. 51 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: On April twentieth, nineteen ninety nine, two students called me 52 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: needed months of planning by donning. 53 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 6: Black trench coats and attacking their school. 54 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 7: My secretary comes in and yells that there had been 55 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 7: a report of gunfire and bombs exploring, and so I 56 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 7: ran out of my office saw a gunman coming towards me. 57 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 7: I remember hearing gunfire, and I remember glass breaking behind me. 58 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 4: I know it's been twenty five years since that day. 59 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 4: I can't even imagine what it felt for you as 60 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 4: a father, First off, hearing that there had been an 61 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 4: event at the high school that your son attended. 62 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: Can you tell me how was that day for you? 63 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 5: It was really a horrific day. Somebody at work I 64 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 5: was trying to leave the office to go to a 65 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 5: conference and somebody in the office said, you know, do 66 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 5: you have any children that go to Columbine High School? 67 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 5: I said yes. I said, well you should come into 68 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 5: the conference room and watch television. There's something happening there. 69 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 5: I watched it as the story unfolded, but I just 70 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 5: didn't think that anything would happen to my son. I thought, well, 71 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 5: there's two thousand students in the school, what are the 72 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 5: chances and my son wouldn't be in any kind of trouble. 73 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 5: I just feeling frankly, wasn't worried. And then you know, 74 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 5: as the day went on and we weren't getting any 75 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 5: work from my son, then I started getting more concerned. 76 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 5: And then as the day went on we weren't getting 77 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 5: any updates. The police said just wait, we'll be in 78 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 5: touch with you. And we went to bed, not knowing 79 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 5: if he was one of the victims or not. And 80 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 5: it wasn't really until noon the next day, twenty four 81 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 5: hours later, that we actually finally got official work that 82 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 5: he was one of the victims. 83 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: It was just terrific, and I know that Columbine. 84 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 4: I mean, it was just such a wake up call 85 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 4: for America. And the rest of the world. Really when 86 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,119 Speaker 4: it came to gun law reforms, how is that day 87 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 4: shaped your work towards greater recognition for gun law reform, 88 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 4: and how is that persuaded of at the last twenty 89 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 4: five years. 90 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 5: You know, I think the key was that, you know, 91 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 5: it wasn't the first school shooting in America, but it 92 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 5: was a very high profile one because of how many 93 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 5: students were killed, the fact that there was a lot 94 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 5: of video of things as they were happening that have 95 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 5: happened in white, middle class America in the suburbs. But 96 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 5: I think the fact that three of those four guns 97 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 5: were purchased through that gun show loopol we called the 98 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 5: gun show loophole that allowed these two young boys to 99 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 5: go to a gun show and by these three guns 100 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 5: using a friend who was eighteen years old, with no 101 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 5: background check, no paperwork, no questions asked. You know, we 102 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 5: were able to say to the people Colorado, does that 103 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 5: make sense? I shouldn't everybody who goes to a gun 104 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 5: show have to pass a background check in order to 105 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 5: get a firearm? And you know, we put it to 106 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 5: a vote of the people. Our state legislature wouldn't cass 107 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 5: a bill that would close that loophole. So I was 108 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 5: a lobbyist for that year working on that issue. I 109 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 5: left my job for a year and lobbied, and when 110 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 5: they wouldn't close that loophole, we took it to a 111 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 5: vote to the people. You can do that here in Colorado. 112 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 5: You can pass a law by a vote to the people. 113 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 5: And seventy percent of the people and who voted said yes, 114 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 5: close that loophole. So I think it really kind of 115 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 5: showed that if you put something reasonable before the people, 116 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 5: in a gun restriction, they'll pass it, and they'll do 117 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 5: it when our own elected officials wouldn't do it. I 118 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 5: think that was the big lesson. 119 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 8: One year ago this month, Save Colorado was born, saying 120 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 8: alternatives to the firearms epidemic we have witnessed here in Colorado, 121 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 8: the extent to which that epidemic can spread, the devastation 122 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 8: it can cause, keep our children safe, close the gun 123 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 8: show loophole. 124 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: Any one really own semi automatic weapons? 125 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 5: Well, most firearms to they are semi automatic. I think 126 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 5: it's a question of the ones that are the assault weapons. 127 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 5: I mean, most handguns these days are semi automatic. I 128 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 5: think the bigger issue is the assault weapons that are 129 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 5: sorry rifles, and also high capacity magazines, because you can 130 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 5: have a handgun that has a high capacity magazine, and 131 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 5: that's especially a problem because you can fire off so 132 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 5: many bullets before you have to switch magazines, and it 133 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 5: allows you to get an awful lot of shots off 134 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 5: in a very short period of time. And those are 135 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 5: the things I think are the big problems, the assault 136 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 5: rifles and the high capacity magazines. 137 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 4: Of course, you may know what happened here in New 138 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 4: Zealand the. 139 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 1: Christ Church terror attack. 140 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 4: What did you make of the government's gun law reforms 141 00:07:59,000 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 4: after that attack? 142 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 5: I thought it was a very very heroic act that 143 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 5: people really reacted to something instead of just doing nothing, 144 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 5: as generally has happened in this country after these tragedies. 145 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 5: I certainly have to keep it in perspective that you 146 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 5: don't have something like we have. You don't have a 147 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 5: Second Amendment that says, you know, you have a right 148 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 5: to bear arms. We couldn't do in this country what 149 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 5: you could do unless we changed our constitution, our Bill 150 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 5: of rights, and that's just not going to happen in 151 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 5: the United States. But the way that New Zealand reacted, 152 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 5: as did Australia after its great tragedy in Tasmania was 153 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 5: the way of people saying, we who want to live 154 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 5: like this, enough is enough. I think it was a 155 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 5: very inspiring act that was taken. 156 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 4: And our coalition government here is considering bringing back semi automatics, 157 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 4: potentially making them return to gun ranges. But the issue 158 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 4: here I see is that the christ Church terrorist was 159 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: vetted and passed and used those semi automatics at a 160 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 4: gun range. Oh yeah, So what would you say to 161 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 4: politicians potentially looking at repealing our gun laws here? 162 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 5: I would say, consider what the very thing that you 163 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 5: just told me about that shooter. I know there was 164 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 5: a terrible tragedy in Germany where they also have pretty 165 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 5: tight laws and it's mostly for hunters, and you know 166 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 5: once who shoot at the range, and the same thing 167 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 5: happened there. The young man had that license and still 168 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 5: went on a killing spree. And I think what I 169 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 5: would say to them is, you know, I understand that 170 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 5: there are people who have fun firing these weapons. I 171 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 5: understand that I've heard that from a number of people. 172 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 5: But we have to get beyond fund and we really 173 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 5: have to consider the danger. We really have to consider 174 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 5: the danger that things can really get out of hand. 175 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 6: The attacker on fifteen match took a significant number of 176 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 6: lives using primarily two guns. They were assault rifles and 177 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 6: they were purchased legally on an a category unlicensed the 178 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 6: standard license held by gun owners in New Zealand. The 179 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 6: capacity of these assault rifles was then enhanced using duty 180 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 6: plus round magazines, essentially turning them into military style semi 181 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 6: automatic weapons. While the modification of these guns was illegal, 182 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 6: it was done easily through a simple online purchase. 183 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 4: And you bring up a good point with the magazines 184 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 4: as well. I know that the ones that the christ 185 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 4: Church terrorists use, for example, buying the magazine and then 186 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 4: buying the guns separately wasn't illegal, but putting them together was. 187 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: But what's stopping someone from putting them together? 188 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 5: Loopholes? Loopholes, loopholes. That's often what killers do is they 189 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 5: find loopholes in our laws and if you're going to 190 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 5: give them an opening, they're going to take it. And 191 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 5: I think we have to do all we can to 192 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 5: close those loopholes. 193 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 4: If someone's questioning why they can't own semi automatics or 194 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 4: have larger magazines, or they argue that they're only using 195 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 4: them like on farms or in gun rangers. I mean, 196 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 4: if you could sit down with someone who's arguing to 197 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 4: lessen gun laws in New Zealand, what would you say 198 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 4: to them? 199 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 5: First of all, I'd have to say if I was 200 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 5: somebody who was living out on a farm or a ranch, 201 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 5: I would not blame them for having a firearm. I 202 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 5: won't condemn them for doing that, so long is it 203 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 5: something like a hunting type rifle, an appropriate rifle for 204 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 5: that setting you to shoot wild animals, or something like that. 205 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 5: When it comes to especially handguns, I think it's important 206 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 5: for people to keep in mind that the risk of 207 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 5: harm in the household is far, far greater when you 208 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 5: have a firearm in the household. That could be suicide, 209 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 5: It could be accident, it could be a spouse argument, 210 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 5: any number of things that can happen. That really kind 211 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 5: of goes against those who say, well, I just I 212 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 5: need it for self protect I would assume that you 213 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 5: have an advantage in New Zealand and that you have 214 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 5: much lower gun ownership than we do in the United States. Here, 215 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 5: it's tough to argue against self protection when you have 216 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 5: so many firearms. But if you don't have a lot 217 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 5: of firearms, why worse in the situation by encouraging more 218 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 5: gun ownership. 219 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 9: Those firearms are already here. In fact, we have six 220 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 9: six hundred people who have endorsements to be in possession 221 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 9: of those firearms. So there's nothing new here. What we 222 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 9: will be looking to do is ensure that we have 223 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 9: a regulatory reform that increases compliance with the legislation and 224 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 9: reduces regulatory burdens on some and that those that are 225 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 9: laura abiding, that have been deemed to be fit and 226 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 9: proper by New Zealand police are given the chance to 227 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 9: partake and what is a normal way of life. 228 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: New Zealand's gun laws. 229 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 4: As part of the Arms Act, there was the introduction 230 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 4: of a gun registry and gun owners felt really that 231 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 4: they're against a gun registry and they felt that, look, 232 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 4: criminals aren't going to be registering their guns anyway. 233 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: Is that a kind of argument that you've heard over 234 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: there as well? 235 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yes, there's a lot of arguments against registration. 236 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 5: But what we have found, for example, is that if 237 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 5: you register the firearm and you license any sellers, then 238 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 5: that helps keep down the black market sale. It doesn't 239 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 5: eliminate it, you know, completely, nothing will completely eliminate it. 240 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,599 Speaker 5: But if you don't have some of those kinds of 241 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 5: steps in place, then you're just encouraging a black market. Then. 242 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 4: I think the main issue over here is the potential 243 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 4: of bringing back the semi automatic firearms that the christ 244 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 4: Church terrorists used, and there's an argument here that there's 245 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 4: just no reason to bring those back, And of course 246 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 4: the Muslim community here in New Zealand have been pleading 247 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 4: with the government not to take these actions because of 248 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 4: course of the tragedy that happened here. In terms of yourself, 249 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 4: you've lost, of course your son in a similar tragedy 250 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 4: of school shooting, but a similar tragedy nonetheless involving firearms. 251 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 4: Do you wish people would listen to you more in 252 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 4: terms of what guns have the potential to do? 253 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 5: Oh? Sure, That's a key thing for me, and I 254 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 5: think that's why I'm resented by some people who are 255 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 5: the gun rights activists, because I remind people that it 256 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 5: can be anybody. I'm just an ordinary person who went 257 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 5: through this pain. I recognize there are a lot of 258 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 5: people who go through this kind of tragedy and have 259 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 5: trouble speaking out. Because my son spoke out, I thought 260 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 5: I had to also, So that's my inspiration, and I 261 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 5: remind people this can happen to you. If you think 262 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 5: this can happen to you, you're foolish. I've had quite 263 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 5: a few people so I've met in course of my 264 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 5: work who's lost a loved one say to me, I 265 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 5: wish I had been involved in this issue earlier like you, 266 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 5: but I never thought of what happened to me. I'm 267 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 5: a reminder that it can happen to anybody, and we 268 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 5: have to do something. Doing nothing won't solve our problem. 269 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 5: Going backwards, as some people in New Zealand are considering, 270 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 5: will do nothing probably make things worse. 271 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 4: You've been doing your work for twenty five years now, 272 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 4: so you're a wealth of knowledge. Is there anything that 273 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 4: you would want to pass on to the New Zealand 274 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 4: public when it comes to gun law reforms and legislation 275 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 4: and how people feel about it. 276 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 5: I think my main message would be, don't let yourself 277 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 5: become like the United States. You know, a lot of 278 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 5: this issue, usually as much as it's sometimes presented as 279 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 5: issue of rights and freedoms, really a lot of it 280 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 5: is about money. You know, many of the people who 281 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 5: are pushing the issue of loosening gun laws. It's about 282 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 5: money for them, it's sales, and we have to get 283 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 5: beyond that. We have to look at the impact on people. 284 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: And it must be so difficult for you especially. 285 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 4: I know we've got televisions at work and we look 286 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 4: up at the international news and we see something like 287 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 4: another mass shooting in the US. There have been so 288 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 4: many more school shootings as well in the past twenty 289 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 4: five years. It just must be heartbreaking to you that 290 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 4: there's been little to no change in people's views against 291 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 4: gun laws despite this happening. I mean, must the US 292 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 4: must know that the rest of the world is just 293 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 4: going what is happening? 294 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 5: We do and people on my side of the issue 295 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 5: see it and understand it, as people on the opposite 296 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 5: side of this issue just don't see it, or they 297 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 5: have their excuses why they say, oh, we're just different, 298 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 5: or oh it's not as bad as you say. It's 299 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 5: really discouraging. It's at least been encouraging that in Colorado, 300 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 5: my state, we've been able to do something, but very 301 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 5: frustrating that at the national level so little has been done. 302 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 5: We did see a few gun laws actually passed at 303 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 5: the national level two years ago but it was the 304 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 5: first time in thirty years that we had anything significant, 305 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 5: and it was only after this tragedy that happened in 306 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 5: the state of Texas, you know, where a lot of 307 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 5: elementary school students were killed, that finally they were able 308 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 5: to get something past. It shouldn't take that much. 309 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us, Tom. That's it for this episode 310 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 4: of The Front Page. You can read more about today's 311 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 4: stories and extensive news coverage at enzed Herald dot co 312 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 4: dot nz. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles 313 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 4: with sound engineer Patty Fox. 314 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 315 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 4: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 316 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 4: get your podcasts, and tune in 317 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: Tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.