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Speaker 1: On the business of tech. This week Nights Dames and

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Speaker 1: High Tech Award Winners, we.

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Speaker 2: Cut through the gloom that settled over the country recently

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Speaker 2: to celebrate some of the big names and emerging players

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Speaker 2: making technology that is solving major problems, creating high value

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Speaker 2: exports and high paying jobs in the process.

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Speaker 1: We also talked to outgoing High Tech Awards chair David

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Speaker 1: Downs about what the awards mean to him and get

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Speaker 1: an update on the New Zealand Tech Story's mission to

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Speaker 1: convince the world that our Tauro is about more than

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Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings and Sheep.

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Speaker 3: I've been working in the New Zealand tech sector since

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Speaker 3: the mid nineties of early nineties, so many years, and

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Speaker 3: I remember when you set up to tech companies in

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Speaker 3: New Zealand. You used to get yourself a dot com address,

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Speaker 3: and you'd get a PO box somewhere in the States,

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Speaker 3: and when you answered the phone, you'd put on a

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Speaker 3: slight American accent because you didn't want anyone to know

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Speaker 3: you from New Zealand. So now it's an asset to

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Speaker 3: be from New Zealand. I think it always was, but

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Speaker 3: we probably just needed a bit of a wake up call.

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Speaker 1: We thought about doing this episode looking back on last

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Speaker 1: Thursday's budget, but it was sort of so devoid of

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Speaker 1: anything positive for tech, science, innovation and even business. We've

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Speaker 1: decided instead to celebrate those who are just out there

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Speaker 1: doing amazing things. Ben Soon we'll hear from some of

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Speaker 1: the perhaps less well known companies and people who picked

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Speaker 1: up gongs at the recent High Tech Awards in Auckland,

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Speaker 1: but first we should tip our hats to some of

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Speaker 1: the people from the world of innovation and business who

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Speaker 1: received honors in the King's Birthday list.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I guess for me the most obvious one

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Speaker 2: to talk about was now Sir Peter Beck, who has

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Speaker 2: picked up at knighthood in the Order of Merit for

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Speaker 2: his work. And I have to say it's probably a

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Speaker 2: no brainer really if you're looking at business people who

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Speaker 2: have been transformative in recent history.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely just stunning what Rocket Lab has achieved scientifically, technology wise, innovation,

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Speaker 1: you know, business doing serious business, going global, employing, you know,

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Speaker 1: over a thousand people between here in the US. We've

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Speaker 1: canvas this success story and sort of how Peter Beck

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Speaker 1: managed to get this thing literally off the ground in

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Speaker 1: previous episodes, but just just incredible and nowhere near finished.

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Speaker 1: It used to be that knighthoods and dame hoods in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand were sort of given to people in their

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Speaker 1: sixties and seventies at the end of their career. Peter

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Speaker 1: Beck is sort of what late forties, maybe fifty now.

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Speaker 1: He's got a lot more to do before he's finished

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Speaker 1: with rocket Lab, that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: The Neutron rocket hasn't even been finished yet, and there's

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Speaker 2: a huge amount of potential coming for rocket Lab down

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Speaker 2: the line.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, And he said something interesting on TV the

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Speaker 1: other night. He said, you know this, it's nice to

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Speaker 1: win this, but really he sees this as a went

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Speaker 1: on behalf of all the engineers in New Zealand, particularly

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Speaker 1: the type of engineering that he does, high precision physics

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Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff. And he basically said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: hopefully this will inspire a whole load of people to

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Speaker 1: pursue a career in engineering. So I totally love the

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Speaker 1: message he was having with that. Another Peter was also

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Speaker 1: awarded Peter Hunter from the University of Auckland. So glad. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is a guy who is probably I think in

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Speaker 1: his seventies now, who has a huge legacy at the

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Speaker 1: bioengineering Institute at the University of Auckland has just done

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Speaker 1: some pioneering stuff around modeling the human body. Basically, we

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Speaker 1: were talking about digital twins last week. Well, Peter Hunter

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Speaker 1: and his team have sort of created a digital twin

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Speaker 1: of the heart and other parts of the body and

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Speaker 1: circulation and that's incredibly useful for scientific research and for healthcare.

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Speaker 1: And we haven't really heard as much about bioengineering and

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Speaker 1: Peter Hunter as other entrepreneurs and innovators and scientists in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand, so really glad to see him recognized.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we seem to have these moments of incredible science

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Speaker 2: talent in New Zealand that become internationally impactful. Ernest rutherfood

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Speaker 2: for is the most famous example, and occasionally it's just

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Speaker 2: good to see another person who has contributed to global

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Speaker 2: science in such a powerful way in New Zealand coming

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Speaker 2: from New Zealand to be recognized. Pet Hunter's definitely up

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Speaker 2: there in that league.

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Speaker 1: And another person honored was Theresa Gatting, who I was

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Speaker 1: interviewing twenty years ago when she was running Telecom and

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Speaker 1: at a very fraught time for that company because its

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Speaker 1: monopoly was being broken up, and she was right at

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Speaker 1: the height of that as CEO oversaw the sort of

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Speaker 1: the telecom making a bet on CDMA mobile technology, which

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Speaker 1: turned out to be the wrong bet, so a few

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Speaker 1: years they went down that path. Very difficult tenure, but

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Speaker 1: she since has gone on to form other companies. She

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Speaker 1: was integral to My food Bag getting off the ground.

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Speaker 1: She's been really great at empowering women into leadership and participating,

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Speaker 1: particularly in business and in the tech sectors. So you know,

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Speaker 1: part of me thinks, you know, Theresa was the one

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Speaker 1: who was Fortress Telecom, fighting off competition, doing all she

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Speaker 1: could to delay and defer the government from closing in

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Speaker 1: on this monopoly which definitely did need broken up. Very

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Speaker 1: savvy business person and since then has made up for

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Speaker 1: that in spades by giving back, particularly to young women.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and she's a chair of TEND as well. You know,

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Speaker 2: if you want to talk about companies that are coming

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Speaker 2: in to try and break up old aging systems and

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Speaker 2: do something new.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, moving on to the high Tech awards when it's

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Speaker 1: just happened a couple of weeks ago. There were big

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Speaker 1: names like rocket Lab, which won Company of the Year.

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Speaker 1: Track Suits a newer startup, but it's had a lot

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Speaker 1: of Attention Huge one Best Emerging Company, and Wellington's Creative HQ,

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Speaker 1: the Startup incubator down here in Wellington won Best Contribution

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Speaker 1: to the Tech sector. So we've heard those great names,

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Speaker 1: but Ben, you spoke to several winners who may not

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Speaker 1: be on any one's radar yet but probably should be.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about Nova Labs, which won three awards, Most

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Speaker 1: Innovative High Tech Product, Most Innovative high Tech Solution for

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Speaker 1: a more Sustainable Future, and most Innovative Deep Tech Solution.

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Speaker 2: Nova Labs are great. They use specialized ultraviolet light treatment

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Speaker 2: technology that's their secret source to disinfect liquids and waste

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Speaker 2: water that is too murky for traditional UV disinfecting. So

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Speaker 2: I spoke to founder Andy Shilton and CEO Matthew Seals,

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Speaker 2: and here's what they said.

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Speaker 4: I'm Andy Shulton, founder and CTO of.

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Speaker 5: The company, and on Matt Sales, the CEO.

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Speaker 4: That was a big night, and it was probably a

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Speaker 4: little bit overwhelming in some ways, but we were up

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Speaker 4: in some really excellent companies and so when they called

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Speaker 4: out our name for the first award, which was for

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Speaker 4: deep Tech, that was such a big surprise.

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Speaker 5: It was just awesome to give their validation. Really we've

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Speaker 5: got something really good here. It's good for the environment,

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Speaker 5: it's a great product, and it's really got global potential

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Speaker 5: and so that is definitely our next step is to

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Speaker 5: go we've got a great tech in New Zealand over

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Speaker 5: into Australia, over further beyond.

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Speaker 4: Two years ago we were sitting in a shed at

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Speaker 4: the back of Massy University, which is where we spun

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Speaker 4: out from with fort support of Massy Benches Limited.

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Speaker 3: It was a great place to start.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, there's definitely been quite a few improvements that

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Speaker 5: we've done along the way.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm moving out.

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Speaker 5: Into our own premise outside of the university and it

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Speaker 5: really come quite a long way in a short time

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Speaker 5: to start building up this tech. But yeah, starting out

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Speaker 5: at the back of a shed the classic Keywi story.

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Speaker 4: Really, you know, at the end of the day, we

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Speaker 4: all get out of bed and go to work for

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Speaker 4: a particular something that's driving us. And I think I

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Speaker 4: can put my hand on my heart here and say

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Speaker 4: that for the team we've got here, we've really driven

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Speaker 4: by two things. It's one that we know that we

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Speaker 4: can make a difference environment. We can you know, what

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Speaker 4: do people really want when they want, you know, talk

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Speaker 4: about pollution. They want to be able to take their

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Speaker 4: kids or their families or interact with our waterways without

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Speaker 4: getting sick from diseases and bacteria and viruses and so forth.

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Speaker 4: And we can solve that problem, and we really can

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Speaker 4: nail up really well. You know, you can almost say

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Speaker 4: that was father two awards we got for Sustainability Award

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Speaker 4: and for hardware. And by sustainability is about doing the

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Speaker 4: right thing for right for reasons and actually making a

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Speaker 4: difference in our work. Hardware is it's just about making

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Speaker 4: good stuff, really cool stuff, and then making it really well.

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Speaker 4: And we can do that just as well here in

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Speaker 4: a small city in New Zealand as we can so

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Speaker 4: can anywhere in the world. Let's make cool stuff in

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Speaker 4: New Zealand and take it to the world.

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Speaker 1: Really interesting company, and I think late last year Nova

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Speaker 1: Labs received a million dollars in funding from the Climate

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Speaker 1: Venture Capital Fund, which has been set up very much

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Speaker 1: for these types of sustainability investments. One million dollars for

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Speaker 1: a seven percent stake the Climate Venture Capital Fund tooken

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Speaker 1: Nova Lab. So that's huge, and you've got people like

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Speaker 1: lamps Wigs involved in that fund as well, so a

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Speaker 1: lot of expertise which should see them really well as

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Speaker 1: they start to scale this up and hopefully take a global.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely And I think it's one of my favorite approaches

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Speaker 2: to taking something that is kind of obvious, like you

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Speaker 2: want to be able to disinfect the most murky waters

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Speaker 2: and liquids with a really good disinfectant like UV, and

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Speaker 2: then figuring out a way to make it work for

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Speaker 2: the most needed spaces.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So tell us about in Vico Technologies at

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Speaker 1: one MARI Company of the Year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they address conservation issues with technology and that includes

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Speaker 2: using drones with thermal imaging to identify and address pest

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Speaker 2: problems and also spreading seeds for native forests and all

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Speaker 2: kinds of cool things. So this was founder and CEO

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Speaker 2: Cameron Baker.

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Speaker 6: What did it feel like to win? Completely surprised, to

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Speaker 6: be honest, we were standing next to some pretty tall

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Speaker 6: Maori businesses in the competition and when that light hit

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Speaker 6: our table, I think I looked around for a brief

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Speaker 6: second and could see the immediate shock on everybody's face

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Speaker 6: as our name was read out and put up on

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Speaker 6: the big screen for our team. It's recognition that the

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Speaker 6: mission that we've set off on within the business is

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Speaker 6: the right mission and the acknowledgment to say that we're

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Speaker 6: on the right path is huge. So we're on the

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Speaker 6: path of scaling, scaling our technology so that we can

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Speaker 6: have a greater impact on the environment and for biodiversity.

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Speaker 6: And what that means for us is having the right

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Speaker 6: investment partners on board that align with our vision, that

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Speaker 6: aligned with our goal and want to see a positive

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Speaker 6: impact on our environment. A majority of our work is

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Speaker 6: in Vico technologies, is carried out overseas and it's interesting

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Speaker 6: because here in New Zealand we're seen as the world

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Speaker 6: leaders of conservation. We've been doing this longer than anybody else,

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Speaker 6: but we're very, very slow adopters of technology and it

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Speaker 6: comes down to tradition. We've tried and tested other methods

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Speaker 6: of applications that other countries just don't have access to.

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Speaker 6: So the using novel technologies like ours to scale the

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Speaker 6: impact for a lesser dollar and it's not minute impact,

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Speaker 6: it's massive. So our part and this is just to

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Speaker 6: help enable other people to achieve massive scales of impact

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Speaker 6: that are just changing the game. And unfortunately New Zealand's

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Speaker 6: not caught up yet.

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Speaker 1: What a cool company hadn't heard of in Veco Technologies,

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Speaker 1: but one of a number of New Zealand startups that

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Speaker 1: are doing really useful things with drone technology. And you

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Speaker 1: can just see where this company is going to go

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Speaker 1: in the era of AI as they start to play

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Speaker 1: machine learning increasingly to identifying pests and getting rid of them.

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Speaker 2: What he said was it really interesting about being more

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Speaker 2: popular internationally than in New Zealand at the moment, that

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Speaker 2: New Zealand was a first mover but has got a

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Speaker 2: little bit stuck in its ways when it comes to conservation.

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Speaker 2: So it'd be great to see, you know, a little

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Speaker 2: more umph behind this kind of thing in New Zealand's

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Speaker 2: conservation efforts, maybe in the next budget.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and just a company that you know, Mari founder,

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Speaker 1: part of the Mari economy and just you know, living

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Speaker 1: all of those sort of principles that a lot of

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Speaker 1: those companies really embody. So that's great to see. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about Joshua Parsons from Crosby's Security and Watchful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Joshua Parson won the High Tech Young Achiever Award.

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Speaker 2: It was actually a joint win with Joshua and Nuli

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Speaker 2: or La Ala, So congratulations to both of them, but

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Speaker 2: only Joshua was able to speak to me in time.

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Speaker 2: He was the founder of Crosby's Security, which is a

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Speaker 2: solar powered physical security company sold powered cameras and gates

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Speaker 2: and things like that, and more recently Watchful, which is

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Speaker 2: a company that uses computer vision and natural language to

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Speaker 2: monitor CCTV footage and give feedback. So here's what josh

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Speaker 2: said about his win.

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Speaker 7: Accepting the award up there on stage as a joint

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Speaker 7: winner with it was amazing. I wasn't aware of the

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Speaker 7: nomination until I basically was told at the last minute

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Speaker 7: that this is being submitted. Being able to come back

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Speaker 7: with the award was super cool. We celebrated as a

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Speaker 7: team as well afterwards, which was really nice. Crossby's Security

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Speaker 7: as a general manager and that allows me to spend

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Speaker 7: more time and Watchful. So we're heading over to the

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Speaker 7: US at the end of June to meet some more customers,

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Speaker 7: complete some more on boarding, and actually tend to select

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Speaker 7: USA Investment Summit, something that people might not know. I

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Speaker 7: have nearly given up more times than I can count,

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Speaker 7: and finding the tenacity to keep going through in those

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Speaker 7: low moments is really really difficult. But there's just something

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Speaker 7: burning inside that seems to never the flame never goes out,

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Speaker 7: so to speak, and so that's what keeps me going.

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Speaker 1: Another company, frankly I hadn't heard of, and parallels with

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Speaker 1: Gallagher Group actually, which started out sort of with electric

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Speaker 1: fences and has moved very much into the security space,

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Speaker 1: not only for farms but for buildings in that as well.

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Speaker 1: And it strikes me as another company, particularly with Watchful,

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Speaker 1: very AI focused applying artificial intelligence to security, which is

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Speaker 1: contentious in some aspects like supermarkets in public places, but

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Speaker 1: hugely valuable from a security point of view.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and as far as I can tell, it's not

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Speaker 2: especially about that facial recognition kind of things, but more

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Speaker 2: about saying, you know, getting an alert that says three

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Speaker 2: people have walked past the camera in the last twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours, you might want to review the footage. I

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Speaker 2: imagine facial recognition once the kinks and things get worked

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Speaker 2: out of the ethical side of that might become a

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Speaker 2: part of it as well. But in terms of improving

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Speaker 2: the efficacy of CCTV monitoring that it's a no brainer

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Speaker 2: for I imagine for many companies in the future.

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Speaker 1: And el Archer another individual who was honored in the

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Speaker 1: High Tech Awards for Inspiring Individual. It's a big one

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Speaker 1: to take out. Tell us about al Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Elle is a advocate for digital equity into and she's

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Speaker 2: involved in a whole bunch of initiatives which you can

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Speaker 2: check out her LinkedIn page to go through. But in particular,

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Speaker 2: she's the founder and director of alm Tehiko, which means

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Speaker 2: the Digital Realm in Today. I'm Maori and it's an

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Speaker 2: organization that promotes the inclusion and celebrates Maori in technology.

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Speaker 2: So here's l.

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Speaker 8: Accepting the n Z High Tech Awards, an Inspiring Individual

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Speaker 8: award was always humbling and exhilarating at the same time.

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Speaker 8: I belong to a group of Copapa lads, so mission

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Speaker 8: first people. So no matter if you get the accolades

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Speaker 8: or the acknowledgment, doesn't change the mission right, it doesn't

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Speaker 8: change for it movement. So looking ahead, we're all pretty

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Speaker 8: excited to continue our journey of innovation. I think something

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Speaker 8: that might surprise people is the extent to which our

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Speaker 8: cultural but unification or kur tahitanga so unity values help

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Speaker 8: shape our business operations, our innovation strategies, everything and how

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Speaker 8: we move as one.

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Speaker 1: So from day one.

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Speaker 8: I've definitely embraced the philosophy where technology is not just

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Speaker 8: about the tools, and I think we're all there now

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Speaker 8: and especially as a smart Citi's MOLL core as well,

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Speaker 8: but about how these elements can embrace and enhance human

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Speaker 8: connectedness and cultural continuity. So this is a foundational principle

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Speaker 8: and it's been a guiding light in my journey and

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Speaker 8: in our journey the collectives that I belong to, and

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Speaker 8: a key factor in our success. I'm really privileged, I

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Speaker 8: think to be part of this phase in humanity's growth

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Speaker 8: and understanding and better understanding technology is enabler for all.

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Speaker 8: And I'm also a firm believer in the vision of

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Speaker 8: our future ready thriving with technology as an enabler for all.

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Speaker 8: I think that's something a vision we can all get behind.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's so good to see l awarded like that.

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Speaker 1: We do have underrepresentation of MARI and PACIFICA in tech

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Speaker 1: jobs of all description. So to have this global community

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Speaker 1: from MARI who are interested in working in digital technologies

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Speaker 1: and to have our sort of leading that we just

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Speaker 1: need more of that so great to see that recognized.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think leading is the key word there, speaking

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Speaker 2: to her. She is such a vibe of a leader.

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Speaker 2: You could see that coming through that. She is extremely

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Speaker 2: strong minded in terms of she knows exactly what she

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Speaker 2: wants to achieve and will work really hard to get there.

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Speaker 2: So definitely earned I think that as an inspired person.

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Speaker 1: Well, congrats to the newly minted Nights and Dames and

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Speaker 1: to all of the High Tech Award winners for twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 1: One person who has presided over those awards for the

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Speaker 1: last five years or so is David Downs, one of

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Speaker 1: the key champions for the New Zealand tech sector and

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Speaker 1: actually leads the government effort via New Zealand Trade and

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Speaker 1: Enterprise to promote the sector worldwide.

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Speaker 2: David is so widely known in the industry and can

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Speaker 2: quite often be seen by the Prime Minister's side on

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Speaker 2: business delegations overseas. He also chairs the Ice House and

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Speaker 2: sits on numerous numerous boards.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's the government's go to guy and all

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Speaker 1: things tech and innovation related. He's done an incredible job

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Speaker 1: really in an area which politicians love to talk up

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Speaker 1: and take credit for, but which doesn't get a heck

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Speaker 1: of a lot of financial support, as we saw in

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Speaker 1: last week's budget.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a question mark over whether the New

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Speaker 2: Zealand story, which David haads, might survive the austerity cuts.

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Speaker 2: We saw Kiwi sass a victim of those, but it

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Speaker 2: appears that and that story will continue. Although David told

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Speaker 2: me that it has had to take a ten percent

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Speaker 2: budget cut and so to make do with its fewer resources,

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Speaker 2: is going to move more in house and reduce its

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Speaker 2: international marketing spend.

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Speaker 1: He said, it sounds like a familiar story at the moment. Nevertheless, Ben,

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Speaker 1: you put up with David about how the New Zealand

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Speaker 1: story is doing as far as promoting tech goes, and

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Speaker 1: also got some interesting views from David about the biotech space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a space that is very very close

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Speaker 2: to his heart. He is someone who describes himself on

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Speaker 2: LinkedIn as CEO board chair and GMO.

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Speaker 1: As in genetically modified organism. More on that and Bend's

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Speaker 1: interview with the ubiquitous tech and innovation guy David Downs.

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Speaker 2: Hi, David, and welcome to the Business at Tech podcast.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 3: You're a nice to be here.

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Speaker 2: So we just saw that high Tech awards happen recently,

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Speaker 2: the celebration of New Zealand's tech industry. It was huge,

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Speaker 2: the biggest ever was it fifteen hundred attendees.

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Speaker 3: Nearly thirteen hundred if we count the start, probably fifteen hundred,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, thirteen hundred and forty or something crazy number.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that must be fascinating to watch that over your

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Speaker 2: tenure as the head of or the chair of that board,

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Speaker 2: to watch that grow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, this is the great thing

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Speaker 3: about the High Tech Awards annuals. The whole technology sector

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Speaker 3: comes together. Whether you're nominated or a finalist or whatever,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. People come just to support, which is

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Speaker 3: not the same in other sort of award ceremonies. So

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Speaker 3: it's really cool because you get the sort of festival

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Speaker 3: of what's going on and you can really taste, sort

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Speaker 3: of take the temperature of the technology sector, which is

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Speaker 3: just vibrant and growing at the moment. So yeah, the

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Speaker 3: High Tacherwards is always a bit of a highlight for us,

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Speaker 3: that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: What was it like this year? Unfortunately I couldn't make

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Speaker 2: it at the last minute for family reasons, But what

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Speaker 2: was it like being in that room with that many people?

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Speaker 3: What was the energy like this year? It was huge, huge, huge,

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Speaker 3: I mean you get that many, thirteen hundred and people

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Speaker 3: together in this spark arena. We were at massive big

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Speaker 3: screen around the outside. We always just go crazy and

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Speaker 3: spend all the money on cool stuff because we're the

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Speaker 3: tech sector and so and we had amazing kind of

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Speaker 3: cultural elements, you know, incredible graphics at the beginning from

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Speaker 3: Nati Far to Old Okay and this great Mehio. I mean,

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Speaker 3: one of the things that we sort of set ourselves

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Speaker 3: as a goal a few years ago was to really

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Speaker 3: showcase New Zealand's diversity as part of the sector. And

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Speaker 3: that's gender diversity, that's ethnic diversity, that's diversity of thinking

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Speaker 3: of all sorts. And we absolutely saw it there the

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Speaker 3: other night because we had, you know, lots of elements

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Speaker 3: where male culture was at the forefront. We had someone

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Speaker 3: who won from the Pacifica community and that was celebrated.

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Speaker 3: We had a person from the deaf community who won

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Speaker 3: and did the first ever sort of sign language acceptance speech,

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Speaker 3: so so it was amazing. And then we had had

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Speaker 3: six ministers there. You think it was an election year,

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Speaker 3: but no, they just wanted to come and so really

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Speaker 3: amazing mixture of people. They're all kind of learning and

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Speaker 3: growing and celebrating success.

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Speaker 2: Fantastic and a lot of success there has been in

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Speaker 2: the recent years in the tech industry. It's just exploded

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Speaker 2: really in New Zealand and become incredibly vibrant. What are

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Speaker 2: you seeing as like the strengths of our industry as

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Speaker 2: reflected by some of these awards.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the cool thing that's pleasing to me

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Speaker 3: is that New Zealand's tech sector is successful. We are

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Speaker 3: growing at double digit growth every year, which is amazing,

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Speaker 3: and it's coming from a much wider diversity of organizations.

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Speaker 3: It's not just three or four companies growing big, although

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Speaker 3: there are big companies, but there's just this really great

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Speaker 3: explosion of talent in other sectors, and particularly in sort

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Speaker 3: of deep tech, so science based technology, things that have

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Speaker 3: come out of IP that might have come out of

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Speaker 3: a university or come out of some really deep research

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Speaker 3: and climate This year, for example, we had the first

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Speaker 3: year we had an award for Best Technology for focusing

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Speaker 3: on the climate on the impact, and lots and lots

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Speaker 3: of good entries, but across at all there is this

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Speaker 3: theme of technology for good, which is pleasing because that's

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Speaker 3: kind of the new Zealand technology story, which I'm sure

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Speaker 3: we'll talk about later, but this tech for good thing,

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Speaker 3: tech with purpose. So yeah, it used to be that

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Speaker 3: a company is a company, your job is to make money.

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Speaker 3: Now actually most people I think in the sector would

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Speaker 3: go technology is a force for good? What can we

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Speaker 3: do with this? And yeah, making money is a great

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Speaker 3: side effect, but you know, more and more through the

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Speaker 3: finalist and definitely the winners, you see this real tech

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Speaker 3: for good type feel come through.

439
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 2: Is that come from the New Zealand culture? Do you

440
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 2: think is that something that's been intentionally shaped or is

441
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 2: that something that's a side effect of just who we

442
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 2: are as a country.

443
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 3: I would like to think that it's part of it

444
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 3: reflects our values as a country. And now you are

445
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: taking me into my day, but you know who are

446
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 3: we as a country? Which makes New Zealand different than

447
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 3: other countries. And we think about the history of New

448
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 3: Zealand and the kind of the kinds of people that

449
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: came to New Zealand. You know, there's a beautiful saying

450
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 3: in Mardi. The idea is that you look backwards into

451
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: your future and you walk backwards because you know what's

452
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 3: behind you, but you don't know what's ahead of you

453
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: and those pathways that are set down there. So you know,

454
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 3: New Zealand was a country of adventurers, explorers, absolute navigators, scientists,

455
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 3: you know, who had to navigate the world to find

456
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 3: this country. And then the types of people that came

457
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: here were challenging authority. They wanted to do things differently.

458
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 3: They didn't want to replicate the conditions that they'd come from,

459
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 3: either through the Pacific Islands or through you know, the

460
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: European countries. So they end up with this You're a

461
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 3: real mixture of people who think a bit differently about

462
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 3: the world. I think about this a lot because it's

463
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 3: made job. But this feeling that New Zealand does things

464
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 3: differently is really prevalent. And in particular, we know that

465
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 3: we are on this island nation which is incredibly beautiful.

466
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 3: We have to be guardians of that. We have to

467
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 3: look after the land and we also have to make

468
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: sure that we think about welcoming people to our shore.

469
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: So the nature, the sort of care for people in

470
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: careful place thing comes through a lot. I mean, again

471
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 3: we talk about that at New Zealand story that that's

472
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 3: kind of at the heart of the difference between New

473
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: Zealand and other parts of the world, is that the

474
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 3: innovation that we have is often around caring for people

475
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: in place. So I think that's the sort of thing

476
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: you see at the High Tech Awards. You know, if

477
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: you just run through some of those finaless and winners,

478
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 3: you'll look at it and go, actually, yeah, that climate

479
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 3: tech stuff, or that's that stuff about how do you

480
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: care for people in the deaf community, or that's that

481
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 3: you know that this is something different about New Zealand technology, which.

482
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: Is cool absolutely yeah, and the celebrating of it, like,

483
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: why is it important to have something like the High

484
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 2: Tech Awards.

485
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the thing. It's not just a giant

486
00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:00,239
Speaker 3: drink up. We have a real strategy. It's because when

487
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 3: I joined the board a few years ago, we were

488
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 3: talking about this is our job just to get together.

489
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 3: It's a here for a bit of a bit of

490
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 3: a party, or is it something deeper? And what we

491
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 3: actually realized that the people who first set up the

492
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 3: High Tech Words it has been going a very long time,

493
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 3: nearly thirty years. The purpose of it was to grow

494
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: are the perceptions of the industry, to attract more people

495
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: into it, more diverse people into it. And so yeah,

496
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 3: definitely for us, it's celebrating is absolutely there because we're

497
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 3: looking at successful organizations, but also sharing more about the

498
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 3: sector so that people can come to it being more

499
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 3: aware of it. So we do, you know, outside the

500
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 3: actual awards night, we have things where we get people

501
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 3: together and teach them or help them share stories about

502
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 3: success and failure. We're doing a lot, as I say,

503
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 3: about diversity and inclusion because we feel the tech sector

504
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 3: is one of those sectors that still needs to do

505
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 3: some work in that area. You know, for all the

506
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: good work that's been done, they're still you know, twenty

507
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 3: five percent of technology sector are women, you know, fewer

508
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 3: than ten percent, you know, only a few percent PACIFICA.

509
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 3: So you've ended up with the subsect of New Zealand

510
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 3: that actually has the opportunity to grow really worthwhile jobs

511
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 3: and be a really fulfilling career. But we're not as

512
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 3: open as we need to be. So part of our

513
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 3: strategy at the High Tech Awards was to really showcase

514
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 3: diversity and culture, and we have a we give away scholarships.

515
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 3: For example, we pay for students to get a university

516
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 3: out of some of the proceeds. So yeah, there's more

517
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 3: to it than just a big piss up, not that.

518
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 2: That's not appreciated as well.

519
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 3: I also joined the Yeah, it's nice to have something

520
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 3: a bit more meaningful behind it.

521
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, you talked a bit about the New Zealand

522
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: story already, but that came out of the ends of

523
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: Tees desire to you know, New Zealand story is broader,

524
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: but focusing on the tech sector, a desire to bolster

525
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: this growing and impressive industry of exports that is New

526
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 2: Zealand Tech.

527
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

528
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 2: How did you come to be involved in that?

529
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I was at New Zealand Trading Enterprise

530
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: for the last sort of ten or twelve years actually,

531
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 3: and so was part of very early days seeing how

532
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 3: the New Zealand story was created. It was created out

533
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 3: of a realization that the rest of the world knew

534
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: only a small thing about New Zealand. They knew we're

535
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 3: a beautiful place, so we get this beautiful halo effect

536
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 3: from our country. You know, the natural beauty of our

537
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: environment makes a lot of people around the world see

538
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 3: us very favorably, but they don't know much more about

539
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 3: us than we're a beautiful country. And that doesn't help

540
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 3: you if you're a technology company, or if you're in

541
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 3: the arts and culture sector or whatever it might be,

542
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 3: you an education institute. So the New Zealand Story's role

543
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: is to grow and expand global understanding about New Zealand

544
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: beyond just the stuff that they already know. We've been

545
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: going about twelve years. I keep telling my board that

546
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 3: it's a thirty year journey, so we're already a third

547
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: of the way in. Because it is growing a brand,

548
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 3: and particularly changing a brand is expanding a brand is difficult,

549
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 3: you know, like people are stubbornly set in their way

550
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 3: of New Zealand is lord of the rings. There is

551
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: nothing else there. And when you showcase some of the

552
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: things that you're doing, for example in the tech sector,

553
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 3: it can be a surprise to them, offered a pleasant

554
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: surprise in fact always. But we still have work to

555
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: do to make sure the rest of the world sees

556
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 3: us as more than just a destination to visit.

557
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was part of the Sea Tomorrow First

558
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: branding campaign, right, it's about representing New Zealand not just

559
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: as beautiful but something a place with their eyes on

560
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: the future as well.

561
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with the beauty and the

562
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: visiting I should just say that there. I mean, we

563
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 3: tourist in New Zealand is one of our major sort

564
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 3: of shareholders. You know, they look after us as well,

565
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: So it's not about one or the other. It's an

566
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 3: and thing in the technology sector, definitely. And I've been

567
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: working in the New Zealand tech sector since the mid

568
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: nineties of early nineties, so many years. And I remember

569
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: when you see set up tech companies in New Zealand.

570
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 3: You used to get yourself a dot com address and

571
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 3: you'd get a PO box somewhere in the States, and

572
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 3: when you answered the phone, you'd put on a slight

573
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 3: American accent because you didn't want anyone to know you

574
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 3: from New Zealm. And that was just because they had

575
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 3: no concept whatsoever of New Zealand being a country where

576
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: technology could originate from Now today, luckily we now know

577
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: that actually being from New Zealand is an asset for

578
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 3: tech companies and our trustworthiness as a country at ease

579
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 3: of doing business, being a great place to invest into

580
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: for example, all really good proof points behind that trust

581
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 3: and the fact that we've got this innovation. As I

582
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: said earlier, that's around tech for good, you know, that

583
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: we can showcase now really credible examples in many subsectors

584
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 3: of tech where you've got really credible companies. So now

585
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 3: it's an asset to be from New Zealand. I think

586
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: it always was, but we probably just needed a bit

587
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 3: of a wake up call. And then the other thing

588
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: that you know, we learned during COVID is that while

589
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: it's really good to go and visit people and you

590
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 3: do need to have boots on the ground at times,

591
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 3: there's no disadvantage anymore from being from New Zealand. In fact,

592
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: you know, quite often it's a point of difference. So

593
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: see Tomorrow first was a campaign that we put to

594
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 3: get a couple of years ago. It will keep going

595
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 3: by the way. It's the assets are all on our

596
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: website and the whole idea is these messages underneath Tomorrow

597
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: is just a strap line underneath it, these sort of

598
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: five or six messages around tech for good, around seeing

599
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: a better tomorrow. You know, it's sort of an invitation

600
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: to work with us and obviously a bit of a

601
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 3: play on words in terms of you know, New Zealand

602
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 3: being with through this country in the world to see

603
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 3: see the new day. And yeah, it's going really well.

604
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: I mean, in the last couple of years we've been

605
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 3: leveraging that brand international trade shows. Entity has done amazing

606
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 3: work and you know, lots of trade shows around the

607
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 3: world using the brand, you know, doing digital marketing all

608
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff. So we're basically, you know, at

609
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: our end of the government end, we're kind of leaning

610
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 3: into it, and then businesses are now picking it up

611
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: as well as being part of their kind of proposition

612
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: of you know, we're part of the New Zealand technology

613
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 3: is seen, you know, and get the halo effect of

614
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 3: that brand.

615
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 2: The thing about marketing is, no matter how good they

616
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 2: camp pain as you do have a diminishing returns eventually

617
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: over time. So how do you intend to kind of

618
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: keep that messaging fresh? How long do you think it

619
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: will kind of last? What's the what's the future for it?

620
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 3: It's hard to know, I mean, we how long what

621
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: the future is and how long will last? I mean,

622
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: it's resonating really well in terms of a brand story

623
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: and whether that seat tomorrow first thing is the right

624
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 3: thing or not, I'm not sure. I'm never sure, but

625
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: it's it's pretty damn good. It's tested really well internationally.

626
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: We do all that kind of market testing stuff. The

627
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: key messages definitely land very well. The way we keep

628
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 3: it fresh is through case studies and stories that reinforce it.

629
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 3: So you know, out of the high techers the other night,

630
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 3: there will be case studies that we develop focusing on

631
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: those companies and leveraging those sort of points of difference

632
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 3: that we talk about in the tech story, so making

633
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: sure that that the right kind of talking points come

634
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: to the fore. It's very much a partnership with the

635
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 3: industry group ENDI Tech and the in the technology sector themselves.

636
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 3: So government's enabled it, We've paid a bunch of money

637
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 3: for My team has been quite involved in it, but

638
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: actually the tech sector in end Teach and particular are

639
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 3: the ones who are really driving for that usage and

640
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: keeping that fresh.

641
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: You said it's really well received overseas that the messaging,

642
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: and you mentioned the high trust kind of aspect of

643
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: New Zealand the ease of doing business, But how are

644
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 2: we perceived in terms of an innovative powerhouse or innovation powerhouse,

645
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: Like how is growing that perception of New Zealand as

646
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: not just a cows and sheep but actually you know,

647
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: the showing off the zeros and the rocket labs and

648
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: those kinds of things.

649
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 3: It's going well. We measure perceptions and familiarity and stuff

650
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 3: like that, you know, quite robustly. So we have measures

651
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: that we will buy from international databases that look at

652
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 3: you know, consumer preferences or business understanding. The recent report

653
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 3: that came out in a few months a couple of

654
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: months ago was that New Zealand's sort of awareness of

655
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: New Zealand as a technology industry was still low, but

656
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 3: had grown by five points on a scale, so it

657
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 3: definitely is going in the right direction. And then we

658
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 3: did some qualitative research as well recently and across five

659
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 3: markets so China, Australia, Singapore, I think, UK and India

660
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 3: and the US so sex markets where we asked them

661
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 3: to look at New Zealand's technology sector. We showed them

662
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 3: a whole lot of prompt material. We showed them some

663
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 3: New Zealand case studies and we kind of used that

664
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 3: then to understand one of the levers we've got to pull.

665
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: So yeah, there's quite a lot of robust data. Where

666
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 3: it doesn't work is if we try and go out

667
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: there and say we're the biggest thing in the world

668
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 3: and we're the best at this and you know, we

669
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: were the first to do something like this, whatever it

670
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 3: might be, because we don't come across as credible, even

671
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 3: if it might be true in a very micro cosman

672
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 3: way where it's very credible and really well received, as

673
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 3: where it links back to what people already know about

674
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 3: New Zealand. So they know we're a beautiful country and

675
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 3: they know we're nice people. So therefore, when we lean

676
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 3: into the stuff and it gives back to this thing

677
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 3: about careful people in place, we lean into New Zealand

678
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 3: is a great at originating technology that's great for the environment,

679
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 3: and we'll show them things like the rocket industry, but

680
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 3: actually we'll show them from the point of view the

681
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 3: sustainability of it, the methane sat or you know, the

682
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 3: low emissions fuels that are being used, or the reusability

683
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 3: of rocket parts. That really resonates because that's consistent with

684
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 3: an existing perception. It doesn't jar if you like. So

685
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 3: this is sort of a bit of random marketing sort

686
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 3: of theory going on or back magic. And similarly in

687
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 3: the human health space, where you talk about things that

688
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 3: are good for humans and good for the good for

689
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 3: health and the planet, etc. You get that, Yeah, that

690
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: makes sense to me, whereas if you said, you know,

691
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 3: we affect everyone on the planet every day of their lives,

692
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 3: it's not going to You're not Apple, So that our

693
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 3: strategy marketing wise, and we don't have a lot of

694
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 3: money to spend on this stuff, so you've got to

695
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 3: really thoughtful about how you target and who you talk

696
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 3: to and what are the messages. So it's really consistent

697
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 3: with what we already know that people know about us.

698
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: Lean in, lean into the Kiwi.

699
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's why I say when we do these

700
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 3: little workshops, we're trying to teach people that, yes, you

701
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 3: could talk about all the features of your widget. And

702
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 3: I've worked in the tech sector for many years. Feature

703
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 3: based marketing is the main way that you that you market.

704
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: But actually we've got to link it back to things

705
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 3: that people already know about us, and that and that

706
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 3: people in places, the stuff that that resonates for for

707
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: the rest of the world.

708
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: About New Zealand, what do you see as the big

709
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 2: opportunities for the future of the New Zealand tech industry.

710
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: You know, we've seen kind of trends recently where we

711
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: were all in on SaaS and then we were all

712
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: in on fintech and we were all in on deep

713
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 2: tach or whatever it is, Like, how do we get

714
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: out of this trend cycle and find some kind of

715
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: strong equilibrium that lifts all boats.

716
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I I'm fond of and great redmire of Sir

717
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 3: Paul Callahan, and he said, we will be good at

718
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 3: what we're good at. The paraphrasm which is, you know,

719
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 3: this this issue that you shouldn't really pick winners. You know,

720
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 3: New Zealand has got some amazing industries and some really

721
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 3: amazing tech companies, but they're not things you would have

722
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 3: predicted before they happened. You know that we would have

723
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 3: you know the world's most amazing baggage handling systems in

724
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 3: fact two of them, or that we would create you know,

725
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 3: masks for sleep at mere So New Zealand. I mean

726
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 3: the default sort of international success story for New Zealand

727
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 3: And exporting is being really good at a niche You know,

728
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 3: this comes from my ten years at Nentta. You see,

729
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 3: the companies that are really successful have picked what is

730
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 3: in New Zealand a very tiny market, and you go,

731
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 3: why would they play there? But when you go to

732
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: the world, it's a huge market and they're very successful

733
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 3: at it and they dive in on it. So whether

734
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 3: that's and I mean obviously SaaS is a business model,

735
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 3: SAS is you know, I think that the obsession with

736
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 3: SAS as a business model is you because people need

737
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 3: to learn business models, but it isn't useful from the

738
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 3: point of view of knowing we use your target because

739
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 3: it's just everywhere. So I think, yeah, I mean, I'm

740
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 3: with you that we've got to be careful. We don't

741
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 3: swing from one thing to another nationally. But there's certain

742
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 3: things that we can do. And again I've been involved

743
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 3: in in the government side of this for twelve so

744
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 3: years now. Certain sort of building blocks that can be

745
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: put in place by government and industry and investors and

746
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 3: founders that will mean any company can be successful. But

747
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 3: again i'd go back to it's usually the niches, the

748
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 3: very small places that are overlooked by the bigger players,

749
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 3: and it's by relentlessly focusing on being great at that niche. Again,

750
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 3: if you look at the winners and finalists and the

751
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 3: high tech awards the last few years, they will be

752
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 3: quite narrowly focused. I mean even zero, you know, one

753
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 3: of our biggest tech companies it's accounting software. It's pretty narrow.

754
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 3: It's not even accounting software. Everyone's accounting software, four accountants

755
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: on the whole. But they've made a multi billion dollar industry.

756
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: Out of it.

757
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 3: And that's the sort of I think, the sort of

758
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 3: pattern we.

759
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: See speaking of niche technologies, this gene editing evolution and

760
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: the hopefully policy changes that will enable it to grow

761
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: in New Zealand. It seems like a really great opportunity.

762
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: You have some experience yourself being a car T cell

763
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: therapy patient and very successfully, and so what do you

764
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: see as the do you see any like do you

765
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: see the opportunity for that area in New Zealand Because

766
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 2: it feels like it's such a huge concept, this gene editing.

767
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 2: But if we can find our niche again, what do

768
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: you see there?

769
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 6: Yeah?

770
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean I've probably got two diametrically opposed opinions.

771
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 3: This is the.

772
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 6: It was.

773
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 3: If you can hold two completely contradictory thoughts in your

774
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 3: head and still function, you're doing pretty well. Why is that?

775
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 3: In New Zealand at the moment, we have a serious

776
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 3: challenge with our health, our health system, particularly in modern health,

777
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 3: you know, and kind of genomics, how do we use

778
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 3: the understanding of the human genome, how do we target

779
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 3: interventions or therapies for patients. We're just way behind on

780
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 3: that stuff, like miles behind the rest of the world.

781
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 3: You know, there's a massive gap when this's a whole

782
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: other podcast, but there's a massive gap in our medicines availability.

783
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 3: There's a massive gap in our acceptance of kind of

784
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 3: modern technology. You hear stories of doctors coming back to

785
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,959
Speaker 3: New Zealand from overseas and leaving and leaving again because

786
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 3: they just don't have the tools that they're used to having.

787
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 3: So that's kind of one set of facts is that

788
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 3: we're behind massively. The second fit the facts as though

789
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 3: we have the opportunity that actually be a leader because

790
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: we've got the elements of success. You know, right here,

791
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 3: you've got organizations like the Malligan institutent Wellington who are

792
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 3: right up there with the world's best in terms of

793
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 3: developing these advanced genetically engineering therapies. So CAR T cell

794
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: therapy one O one you know, short version of it

795
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 3: is it's basically genetically re engineering a human immune cell

796
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 3: a T cell to recognize and fight cancer. Whole new

797
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 3: way of treating cancer it's not another drug, it's not

798
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 3: a different type of chemo. It's a different whole never

799
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 3: technique and in New zealand's right up there with the

800
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 3: world's best in that and they've been doing that now

801
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 3: for three or four years. You know, I helped them

802
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 3: when I came back from overseas. I signed up as

803
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 3: their ambassador and we help raise money and get the

804
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: permits and that sort of stuff. We've treated forty patients

805
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 3: now in New Zealand or thirty patients, so that's going

806
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 3: really well. That could be extended pretty You can see

807
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 3: the pathway to extend that into something really impressive, like

808
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 3: set up a New Zealand based facility for testing other

809
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 3: people's car ti cell therapies. You can see how that

810
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 3: we can you know, we do manufacturing for example of

811
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 3: some of the components that go into it, lenty viruses

812
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 3: they're called. We could be we could be a test

813
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 3: bed for a global multinationals. We could. You know, We've

814
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 3: got amazing Our population is perfect for some of the

815
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 3: stuff in terms of the diversity that we have in

816
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 3: this country. So you can see the elements are there,

817
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 3: and there are great people across the system trying their

818
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 3: hardness to almost battle the system to get us to

819
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 3: that point. But it does need some government support, some

820
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: government agency support, and that's not financial necessarily, it's just

821
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 3: like clear the pathways to allow this to happen. So

822
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 3: it was pretty exciting. A couple of weeks ago the

823
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 3: EPA changed their stance on this. And this isn't like

824
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 3: a free for all. We're allowing GMOs into New Zealand.

825
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 3: That's not where we're going. But what it is doing

826
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 3: is bringing some more sensible ways of thinking about how

827
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 3: might you, particularly in this human health space, how might

828
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 3: you adopt some modern technology to help us. So I think, yeah,

829
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 3: as I say, I've got these two massage different opinions,

830
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 3: But I'm such an optimist. I'm always going right, when

831
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 3: we crack it, we're going to actually be a world leader.

832
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 2: And I guess we saw yesterday with the budget as

833
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: we record this, that there was a bit of a

834
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 2: loss in terms of science funding. But you just said,

835
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: you know, it's not necessarily about money. Money is always

836
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: good and helpful, but what are some other things that

837
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: we could do if we don't have that money to

838
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 2: be able to promote that kind.

839
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 3: Of Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. Money, money

840
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: is going to be required, and definitely the government announcements

841
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 3: yesterday we're disappointing from the point of view the science sector.

842
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 3: They were even more disappointing from the point of view

843
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 3: of the medicines industry and the cancer drugs in particular

844
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 3: because they were literally promised. But anyway, putting that to

845
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 3: one side, but where New Zealand can be a leader here,

846
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 3: As I say, the Malagan ins student's done some fantastic work,

847
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: as have other research institutes to show that we have

848
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 3: got world class science here and that translational science between

849
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 3: what happens in the laboratory and what happens more broadly,

850
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 3: we're really good at when it's funded well and when

851
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 3: we collaborate. We've got a company here in New Zealand

852
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 3: called Bayer Aura who is looking at being an organization

853
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: that can rapidly create CARTI cells from anybody's version of

854
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 3: a cartie, not just the Malligans, but anyone else's and

855
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 3: could then be put to use to God of be

856
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 3: that test lab if you like. So we've got those ingredients,

857
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 3: but a lot of that is waiting for government policy

858
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 3: to change or that EPA decision a few weeks ago

859
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: needed to happen. The medical system needs to really think

860
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: about how it's going to apply these technologies for real,

861
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 3: because it's great to be doing it as an experiment,

862
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 3: but actually we need them in patients quickly, and we

863
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 3: need more access to more people. There are literally hundreds

864
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 3: of people all year dying of cancers that are preventable.

865
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 3: You know, literally, it's terrible to say this, but in

866
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 3: New Zealand are we are allowing people to pass away

867
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: because they can't get access to the medications or the

868
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 3: techniques that are now available in the rest of the world.

869
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 3: So that's a market access thing, not a money thing

870
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 3: only well, okay, money is always useful, so everythings we

871
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 3: can be doing.

872
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: Such a great talent David Down's I had a blast

873
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: talking to him, and I actually interviewed herven for a

874
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: future piece called My net Worth, which just talks to

875
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: us somebody about kind of their life and business success,

876
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 2: which is super zuper interesting if you know anything about

877
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 2: David Downes's past.

878
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: I sort of loved what he was saying and where

879
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: the high tech awards really have New Zealand at the

880
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: moment because a lot of the companies that were awarded

881
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. Are not really super well

882
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: known names. As I said earlier on, there are some

883
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: big ones were recognized, but a lot of smaller companies

884
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: that are nevertheless doing really big things. And that's what

885
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: sort of David said. We have three to four big

886
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: sort of founding fathers off the tech sector, you know,

887
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: zero included, but now we have a lot of small

888
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,439
Speaker 1: companies doing really well. We have a lot of deep

889
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: tech and science based companies doing particularly well. And we've

890
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: seen from for instance, the Angel Investor Network that the

891
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: biggest share of early stage funding is now going into

892
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: deep tech and that's the really important science based stuff

893
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 1: that is tackling big often in ron mental or health

894
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: related issues. And that's also where a lot of the

895
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: real valuable intellectual property can be created that can be

896
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: used around the world.

897
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a huge advocate for the funding of science

898
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: technology and deep tech, and I think it was a

899
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: really interesting part of the conversation that we had where

900
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: were talking about his experience with genetic technology, where he is,

901
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: you know, himself a cancer survivor thanks to carti cell technology,

902
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: and that he sees it as a huge potential place

903
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 2: of economic success I guess, as well as like genuine

904
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: human success for New Zealand. But although there are some

905
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: policy settings that can be tweaked to perhaps realize that

906
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 2: there's going to require a little bit of money as well.

907
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's great that in many ways that you

908
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: know really said that he got that disease. But to

909
00:46:54,440 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: have someone with his ability to really tell stories, understanding

910
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: and championing of technology hooking up with the Mallagan Institute

911
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: and really helping them sort of build a case for

912
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: doing car T cell immunotherapy trials here in New Zealand.

913
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: We just needed to put the focus on it and

914
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 1: decide that we wanted to pursue this. And with the

915
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: changes to the has No Act potentially coming up in

916
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: a new biotech regulator which the National Party has promised,

917
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: it's going to be easier hopefully to do this sort

918
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: of really cutting edge research.

919
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I thought it was fascinating when he said

920
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 2: that the key to marketing tech New Zealand tech internationally

921
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 2: is to lean in to what people already know about

922
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: New Zealand. Don't try and find it, don't try and

923
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: change their mind, you know, lean into it and you

924
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 2: can find that they will be a lot more willing

925
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: to take it on.

926
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: I think that's smart because we've probably spent too long

927
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: going okay, you know, we're really good as a tourist

928
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: destination and all these things and green let but we

929
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: want to be seen to be so much more. But

930
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: actually that clean green image, even from Lord if the Rings,

931
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: is so imprinted in people's minds that that is the

932
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: basis for selling us to the world. So that which

933
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: is why, as you said, you know, the High Tech

934
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: Awards a lot about sort of sustainability companies and companies

935
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: that are really about doing good and whether that's in

936
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: healthcare or in social issues or an environmental services. So

937
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: I really like that and the fact that don't boast

938
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: about being the biggest and the best. That actually doesn't

939
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: engender trust in other markets. So play to your strengths

940
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: and we do have a number of those.

941
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, being able to just pop onto

942
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: a website and grab some marketing assets that you can

943
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: use to tell your story. I think it's such a

944
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 2: that's a great idea.

945
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: So thanks to David Downs for coming on the podcast.

946
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: As you said, Ben, there are lots of resources the

947
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: New Zealand stories created which any business promoting itself overseas

948
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: can use. We'll link to those in the show notes

949
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: in the Tech section at Businessdesk dot co dot nz.

950
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 2: And you'll also find our show notes and reading list there.

951
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 2: Don't forget Business Attach is on all major podcast platforms

952
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 2: as well as iHeartRadio, where you can stream every episode,

953
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 2: and if you've got to spare a couple of minutes,

954
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: head over to Apple Podcasts and rate us. Just to

955
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 2: get the word out a little more.

956
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: Get in touch with feedback, ideas, topics and guest suggestions.

957
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 1: Email Ben on Ben at business test dot co dot

958
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: nz or find both of us on LinkedIn and x.

959
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: We'll be back next week with a new episode.

960
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: Till then, have a great week.