1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. It'll 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: come as no surprise when I say our emergency departments 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: are suffering. It's a tale that's haunted consecutive governments and 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: one that has those at the front line crying out 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: for support. Winter is one of the busiest periods for 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: hospitals in the entire year, and many are already reportedly 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: at capacity. But what do we do with this broken 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: record and how do we fix a sector that's been 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 1: chronically underfunded for generations. Today on the Front Page, Herald's 11 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: senior investigative reporter, Michael Morra joins us to discuss what 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: he's heard from those at the coal face of this crisis. 13 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: You've done some digging around emergency department waiting times and 14 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: it's no surprise that it's pretty bad. 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, I think that what this report reveals that 16 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 2: I've got into the Official Information Act reveals precisely how bad. 17 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: And I think, to be fair, a lot of this 18 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: sort of information is in fact hidden from the public 19 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: or is not really prevalent in the public domain. A 20 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: few of the key points that were raised in this report. 21 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 2: From last winter Winter twenty twenty four, more than fifteen 22 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: hundred patients treated in corridors over a thirty six day 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: period at Middlemore Hospitals ed. Essentially, this was because of 24 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: severe overcrowding and a lack of staff for ron dirty. 25 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: But more importantly, over this same thirty six day period, 26 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: there were forty three separate patient harm incidents. Now, when 27 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: I say patient harm, what I mean by that is 28 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: that several of these would have been what's classified as 29 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: category one or category two adverse events. So essentially it 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: could be a patient who dies or suffers some other 31 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: major medical event due to delays in care or poor care. Now, 32 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: the physicians who are working very hard out at Middlemore, 33 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 2: I mean they're skilled operators, right, but if you are 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: overwhelmed with too many patients, people are falling through the cracks. 35 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 2: And this is essentially what this report is talking about. 36 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 2: So it is fairly concerning, and there's even some comments 37 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 2: from staff themselves, And I'm just going to quote you 38 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: a couple of points here because I think this is 39 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: really salient to the whole discussion. One staff member says 40 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: the lack of resourcing and support for the emergency department 41 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: at Middlemore is having a quote significant effect on the 42 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 2: morbidity and mortality of the population that we are meant 43 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: to be serving. It reported ED overcrowding does not show 44 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: the old ladies who wet themselves in the corridor because 45 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: there is nowhere else to go. Another staff member says, 46 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: our patients are being done an injustice and we're not 47 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: talking about it. It's certainly not visible to our politicians 48 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: to say that the ship is sinking and no one 49 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: is coming to help as an understatement. So really really 50 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: strong language there and a pretty concerning report. And the 51 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: points I've made just now with the patients being treated 52 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: in corridors, I mean there's other elements. Two hundred and 53 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: thirty excess bed days, so that is patients who are 54 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: in the ED languishing there, remaining in a bed, but 55 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: they're not being admitted to the ward. So that's the time. 56 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: That's the extra time they're spending in a place that 57 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: they should not be because they need to be admitted, 58 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: but there is bed block in the hospital so they 59 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: can't get in. There were also issues around meeting certain 60 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: KPIs for people who are walking into the ED with 61 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: a heart attack, for example, not getting the interventions they 62 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: should within the ninety minute KPI. So yeah, some pretty 63 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: serious points that have been raised in this and certainly 64 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 2: a real insight into what has occurred at Middlemore Hospitals 65 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: ed last winter. Now you might say, well that was 66 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: last winter, Mike, But the point is is that the 67 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: clinicians wrote this report so it could be reviewed escalated 68 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 2: up the chain to Health New Zealand and to the Minister. Now, 69 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: what they ultimately wanted was three point six million dollars 70 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 2: of additional funding to boost their staff numbers and boost 71 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: resourcing and make it safer for this winter twenty twenty five. 72 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 2: Have they received that money? No, they have not. Did 73 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: the report get escalated up the chain to the national 74 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: clinical Leadership? It did. I've worked out that it did 75 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 2: go up there. However, Health New Zealand has told me 76 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 2: that there were quote delays in acknowledging it. So that's 77 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 2: pretty worrying, right. You've got clinicians who essentially write this 78 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: very detailed report, it's a cry for help, goes to 79 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: the top and doesn't appear like much happened. 80 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: No, so who did the report? The clinicians who are 81 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: seeing this every day. 82 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: Correct. There was several emergency department doctors and nurses who 83 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: were involved in compiling this report. 84 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: It must be so frustrating if you're seeing people like 85 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: that from the grand extremes. And what got me there 86 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: is the older ladies urinating in hallways because there's nowhere 87 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: else to go. I mean that gives you a real 88 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: vesceral on how bad this is. It must be so 89 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: frustrating for them. 90 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. And I interviewed doctor Vannessa Thornton, who's 91 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: one of the regional managers at County's Monaco, also an 92 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: expert emergency department physician and has been an edy doctor 93 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 2: for you probably about twenty or thirty years. I think 94 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: she's certainly been doing the job and knows the craft 95 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: pretty well. But she said and admitted, yes, it is 96 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: extremely frustrating. But on some days they will have not 97 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 2: enough staff. There might be three or four staff who 98 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 2: call them sick and they just cannot replace those people. 99 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,239 Speaker 2: And I said to her, well, what about this money? 100 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: Will you get that money ahead of this one? And 101 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: she said, look, we're hoping to get some resourcing. But 102 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: she certainly sympathized with her colleagues. Comments about the ship 103 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: is sinking as in the ed is thinking, because she 104 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: agreed that on certain days it felt like staff were 105 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: not being heard and were overwhelmed. 106 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: As Minister of Health, ensuring that all New Zealanders can 107 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 3: access timely quality healthcare is my top priority. Reducing weight 108 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 3: lists so that patients have shorter weight times for appointments 109 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: and surgery is a key part of this and this 110 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 3: hospital will play a critical role in delivering these targets. 111 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: While there is significant progress needed to meet these targets, 112 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 3: I'm pleased at patients in this region and further Afield 113 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 3: are benefiting from the state of the art facility. This 114 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 3: number will only grow as theater capacity and resourcing continues 115 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 3: to scale up over time. 116 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: So this isn't unique to Middlemore Hospital. Hey, how widespread 117 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: is this issue? 118 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 2: Yes, I've spoken to doctor Kate Clark, who is the 119 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 2: chair for the Australasian College of Emergency Medicine. This is 120 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 2: essentially the group that oversees eds all around the country 121 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: and absolutely she says, Look, this is not an issue 122 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: that is unique to Middlemore. And interestingly she told me 123 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: and you can read this in the Herald, that many 124 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: of our bigds are actually right now at capacity and 125 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: we have not yet hit winter. I'll give you a 126 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: little bit of insight into this. Health New Zealand has 127 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: provided me with some data which relates to just how 128 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: busy our eds are right now. And remember every winter 129 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: there are stories about ED overloading and we are not 130 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: quite there yet. But look at this the seven day 131 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: average from May fourteen to May twenty. Every day christ 132 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: Church Hospital has been seeing three hundred and thirteen patients. 133 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: That's a day. Middlemore Hospital, which we've been speaking about, 134 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 2: three hundred and twenty nine patients per day now. To 135 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: give you some context around them. The last time Health 136 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 2: New Zealand put out a public health alert about extremely 137 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: busy eds was last year with christ Church's ED and 138 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: at that point they were seeing four hundred and thirty 139 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: patients a day and Health New Zealand put out basically 140 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: a plea to the public that if you don't need 141 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: to turn up there, police don't because they are extremely busy. 142 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: Same goes for Middlemore three hundred and twenty nine patients 143 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: they're seeing on a daily basis. I've just had an 144 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 2: email come in a concerned ED worker. I won't be 145 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 2: saying who that is but they tell me Middlemore's ED 146 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 2: was built to receive two hundred and seventy patients a day. 147 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 2: Right now they're seeing three hundred and twenty nine. 148 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 4: And we haven't even hear winter yet. 149 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 2: No, and that's official data from Health New Zealand, so 150 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 2: you can kind of get a picture. And the other 151 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: point to make is that every year, year on year, 152 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: these numbers are going up, So the number of people 153 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: presenting is going up by you know, two to three 154 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: percent a year. 155 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: Now, this is an issue that successive governments have had 156 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: to deal with and I mean, what is the solution here, 157 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: bar getting more staff in, bar more funding, do we 158 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: really need to go grassroots? 159 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 4: So looking at general practices, do people rock up to the. 160 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: You know, the old outage people are just going to 161 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 1: the ED because it's the you know, they've got a 162 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: sniffer and they just go there. 163 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 4: They're clunging it up. I mean that's not really the 164 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 4: case though, is it. 165 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: No? 166 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: And look, yeah, that's a really really important point that 167 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: you've raised. And a lot of people will say and 168 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: sometimes say, oh, well, you know, please don't turn up 169 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: to your ED. But actually, if you look at the facts, 170 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 2: more than fifty percent of patients who are turning up 171 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 2: to middlemore ZD, for example, are high acuity patients. That 172 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 2: means that they are severely unwell or they're having some 173 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 2: sort of medical condition, and over fifty percent of those 174 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 2: patients require admission to the hospital. They're not turning up 175 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: with a sniffly nose, And in fact, there's been research 176 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: done about that which rebuts that idea that a lot 177 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: of people are just turning up without needing to be there. 178 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 4: Where does that come from? Do you reckon? I mean, 179 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 4: that's spread over years and years and years. 180 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 2: Hey, I think so, and certainly maybe some EDS that 181 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 2: that might be the case, where a lot of people 182 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: are turning up to get coughs and colds locked out 183 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: or something like that when it's not an emergency. But 184 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: I think it's actually a bit of a myth at 185 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: the moment to suggest that, you know, everyone in New 186 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: Zealand who's turning up at EDS don't actually need to 187 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: be there, because the facts just don't support that. 188 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 4: So looking at mental health patients and emergency departments, I 189 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 4: remember reading something in the New Zealand Medical Journal last 190 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 4: year about this time last year, and it's said almost 191 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 4: one in five ED presentations are by mental health clients. 192 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: They crunched the numbers over a five year period and 193 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: these presentations were often younger female Maori required more urgent 194 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: care and waited longer. This would come as no surprise 195 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: to UA. 196 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and in fact, this report that I've got much 197 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 2: delves into the situation at Middle of the hospital. It's 198 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: one of the key points they might make right up 199 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 2: the top of the report that over this thirty six 200 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: day period that was under review, five patients who are 201 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: under the Mental Health Act absconded from the ED while there, 202 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: one of whom attempted suicide as soon as they got 203 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 2: outside the ED doors. Now, I've spoken to Vanessa Thornton 204 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: about this at Middlemoor ED and also doctor Kate Allen. 205 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 2: Both of them say, look, this is happening, and it 206 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 2: is actually happening daily. You know, it's happening pretty regularly. 207 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: And again though one of the key concerns they raise 208 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: is staff. You know, they don't have enough staff, so 209 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 2: that is one of the key concerns here. I guess 210 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: it also goes back to the point you raised earlier 211 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 2: about sort of the community care right we know in 212 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: New Zealand, to have a well functioning health system and 213 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 2: an emergency which operates in a hospital that operates without 214 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 2: being overwhelmed. You need to have a good, healthy, functioning 215 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: primary care system in the community because if patients are 216 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 2: coming to see their GPS, and they can see the 217 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: same GPS over a long period of time, they are 218 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: less likely to have to go to ED because they 219 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 2: don't suddenly get sick. That's what gps are all about, 220 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: preventative medicine. This has been a long concern of GPS 221 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,359 Speaker 2: for many years now, and I saw multiple press releases 222 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: from the likes of gen Pro the GP Owners Association 223 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: after the announcement of this budget just saying this is 224 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 2: woful and we're not happy again. The concern is under 225 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 2: investment in a core part of our health system in 226 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: New Zealand. 227 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: They're just crying out, aren't they. I remember I spoke 228 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: to New Zealand Initiative Research fellow and GP doctor Prabarni 229 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: Wood earlier this year about the country's primary healthcare system. 230 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 5: I'd love to get stuck in and look in more 231 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 5: detail into alternative funding models. I have to do that 232 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 5: in the future, but it makes logical sense to me 233 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 5: that any money that's saved by general practice from patients 234 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 5: not having to attend the emergency department. That saving could 235 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 5: then be fed back into primary care. So we're not 236 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 5: asking for new money, but we're asking for the money 237 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 5: that we're saving to come back to us. And that 238 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 5: would absolutely make sense to look at things like that 239 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 5: in that way. 240 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: So what is the solution here. It's obviously not an 241 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: easy one. There's going to be no silver bullet. But 242 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: what are some of the ways that we can alleviate 243 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: this pain on EDS? 244 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 2: Well, certainly there has been general support for the Health 245 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: Minister same and Brown's announcement about the expansion of urgent 246 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 2: care services. So for example, it's just just remember that 247 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: this announcement from the government is not about building new 248 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: urgent care clinics, it's just extending the hours for which 249 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 2: they are open. So that would be probably useful in 250 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: the sense that perhaps some of those patients who may 251 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 2: have gone to the ED at Middlemore might be able 252 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 2: to go at midnight to their urgent care clinic instead, 253 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: so that will alleviate some of it. And also there's 254 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: been various other initiatives, but what GPS and what emergency 255 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: Medicine physicians are saying, is it's about priorities, right, and 256 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 2: health is important and there just hasn't been enough funding 257 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 2: injected into that and it hasn't been prioritized like it 258 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: should in New Zealand. And even when I actually asked 259 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: Health Minister Simeon Brown direct questions about the report at Middlemore, 260 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: you know, direct questions about the concerns from staff about 261 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: the number of people in corridors, about whether he had 262 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: seen the report as clinicians wanted him to. He did 263 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 2: not respond to those questions, which is pretty concerning, and 264 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: he talked more about the government's health targets and how 265 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: that is improving Edie wait times. But again we come 266 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: back to the key thing. It's funding and it's staff numbers. 267 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us, Michael Pleasure. 268 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 269 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 270 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: at enzdherld, dot co, dot MZ. The Front Page is 271 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: produced by Ethan Seals and Richard Martin, who is also 272 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front 273 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts and 274 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.