1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,559 Speaker 1: Barry so Per, senior political correspondence with US Now hy Barry, 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: good afternoon. Hither So when Trevor says he's bringing when 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Winston says he's bringing Trevor home early, He's not really 4 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: is he. 5 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 2: It's fascinating, isn't it. It's been a long time coming, 6 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: this one. I must say, because I remember when Winston 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: became Foreign Minister, he says about eighteen months ago, saying 8 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 2: to him, well, when are you going? When are you 9 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: going to withdraw Trevor Mallard? What's he ever done to 10 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: two and a half years ago? Barry? No, No, he said, 11 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: he's eighteen months I'm sorry, yeah, And there was no 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 2: response really from Winston. He's sort of celebrating the fact 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 2: that Trevor Millard is coming back, he says early Winston 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 2: he seems to be claiming credit for the early recall 15 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: of Mallard. 16 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 3: Listen, do you know that famous song from the Seekers? 17 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 3: The Carnival's Over. I have been in my career ensuring 18 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 3: that when we have the match, they trained their experience 19 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 3: and it should not be a job for the boys 20 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 3: or the girls out of politics of a post nor 21 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 3: my career, And soon I'll have created it for the 22 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: third time. He's coming home and he's coming home early. 23 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 3: It's a circus where instead of looking at the national interest, 24 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 3: you've got people like Cinda doing appointing politicians two important jobs, 25 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 3: and that should not be happening. If you've got people 26 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 3: there are some sort of sinecure, their performance will never 27 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 3: be able to spress. You trained people, you give them 28 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 3: decades of experience to get into important jobs, and all 29 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 3: of a sudden you put a politician there with no 30 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: training at all. It was the wrong appointment. I cannot 31 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 3: believe that the sender didn't send somebody like him out 32 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 3: of the way. He behaved with respect to the protests 33 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 3: out here, turning up the noise, boarding cold water, over 34 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 3: young talking at night. This is a disgrace and you 35 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 3: guys should have been calling it out, not me. 36 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: Well, we were calling it out, I must say, but 37 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: you know when the. 38 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: People he was talking to did not call it out though, 39 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: right he was talking to the press gallery. 40 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: Oh yes, indeed. Yeah. The two exceptions, though, You've got 41 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: to remember with Winston is that he has made political 42 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: appointments in the past. One was Brian Donnelly, who was 43 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: a former New Zealand first MP who was appointed to 44 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: the Cork Islands and he had a big association with 45 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: the Cook so and he was very successful there. So 46 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: that was a good appointment. The other one, I don't 47 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 2: think anybody would have any arguments with that Winston made. 48 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: It was a political appointment very plainly. Was Annit king 49 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: to Canberra? Now he made that in twenty eighteen. But 50 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: when you look at Trevor Mallard, I mean, for goodness sake, 51 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 2: his handling of the protesters at Parliament that should have 52 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 2: should have been warning science to anyone that this man 53 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: was not fit to be a diplomat. He got a 54 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: knighthood though along with his best buddy sind Dern the 55 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 2: ambassador's job. They claim that he made that there was 56 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: a rapist at Parliament dragged on. Well, it was me 57 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 2: that did the story. Yeah, and it was my big 58 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: falling out with Trevor Millard because he thought I should 59 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: never have done the story. I mean, this man, to 60 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: me just cut a swathe in Parliament that should never 61 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 2: been cut. Even though he says he improved the behavior 62 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: of parliament, look at what we've got now. I mean, honestly, 63 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: I think he's home well and truly after time. 64 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: So Nicholas pretty stoked about the credit rating thing, isn't she? 65 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: And she should be two. I mean, you know New 66 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: Zealand getting a double A plus from Fitch, but it 67 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: follows on from other rating agencies as well. Moodies. We've 68 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: got an a double A there with standard and pause. 69 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 2: We've going to double A plus the same as Fitch. 70 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: So it is good. But the thing is that she's 71 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: had to go at Chris Hipkins on her way in 72 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: the debating chamber today for what she says was playing 73 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: down the level of debt by saying that they have 74 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: to fund infrastructure somehow and playing down the interest bill 75 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: to this country on it. 76 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 4: Here she is this kind of fiscal enumeracy is dangerous 77 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 4: for New Zealand because the factor is that our debt 78 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 4: servicing costs are currently eight point nine billion dollars a year. 79 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 4: I want to put that number in some context for you. 80 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 4: I see that I am taking over the Prime Minister's microphones. However, 81 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 4: I'm just going to proceed and that was not intentional. 82 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 4: That is enough to pay for the annual operating costs 83 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 4: of the Defense Force, combined with the New Zealand Police, 84 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 4: combined with the Customs Agency, combined with the Corrections Agency, 85 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 4: combined with the Ministry of Justice. And yet what Chris 86 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 4: Hipkins is trying to gaslight New Zealand is about is 87 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 4: that debt servicing costs are not something we need to 88 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 4: worry about. 89 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 5: I mean, this is just vintage National Party when they're 90 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 5: in a hole and they're in a very big hole 91 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 5: at the moment, start throwing mud at the Labor Party. 92 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 5: That's what they do every time. But the reality is 93 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 5: their hole is getting deeper. They need to figure out 94 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 5: how to get themselves out of a hole without worrying 95 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 5: about other political parties. 96 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: So where do you go from there? You don't go 97 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: anywhere really. But look, it is true that New Zealand's debt, 98 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: the government debt isn't as high as it has been 99 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 2: in the past. I mean I remember back to even 100 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: the Gimbolgier period. I think we had a higher debt 101 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: to GDP ratio then. So you know, we we can 102 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 2: handle debt like this. And Hipkins is right in a way, 103 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: you've got to borrow money to pay for infrastructure. Oh yeah, 104 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 2: what he buy us saying he did that. I'm saying 105 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: you as a general princess. 106 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: That is the problem, Barry. It's that people have a 107 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: problem with this debt, not so much necessarily because of 108 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: the debt situation. It's what we got for the debt, 109 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: which is bugger totally. 110 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: You're talking the COVID debt. Yeah. 111 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: No, Christ and his mate Chippy and borrowed a lot 112 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: and bought bugger all. 113 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you would have. 114 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: Heard I'll deal with it next not. 115 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 2: And you know it was Rachel Send of the Gossip. 116 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: London unexplained, I'll explain. Thank you, Barry So for senior 117 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: political correspondence. 118 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 5: For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to 119 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 5: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 120 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 5: a podcast on iHeartRadio.