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Speaker 1: Huddler's this evening, Kiwi Block and Curryrpolster, David Farrer and

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Speaker 1: Auckland Council of Richard Hills Kelder Kordawa.

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Speaker 2: Hello and Richard.

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Speaker 1: I'll turn on your microphone. There we go. Great to

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Speaker 1: have you both here. Listen they start off with you, Richard.

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Speaker 1: So the benefit sanctions has everyone going at the moment,

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Speaker 1: they've gone up more than fifty percent over the same

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Speaker 1: period from last year. Is this what we need to

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Speaker 1: get people to comply with the rules.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess some would say it's a

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Speaker 3: social contract, and there are already sanctions that were in place.

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Speaker 3: But to see quite that dragmatic uplift while unemployment's going

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Speaker 3: up and benefits are going up and there's not a

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Speaker 3: lot of jobs out there is pretty concerning. And the

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Speaker 3: other thing I think that most of the studies show

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Speaker 3: here and internationally is that benefit sanctions don't actually work.

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Speaker 3: They don't work to get people in some meaningful employment.

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Speaker 3: It's things like education and training, and the majority of

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Speaker 3: people in New Zealand don't stay on and benefit longer

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Speaker 3: than a round a year.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Although these are obviously tricky economic times, it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: this government's been quite deliberate, haven't they, David in increasing sanctions,

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Speaker 1: changing index for beneficiaries, increasing the obligations for young people

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Speaker 1: to have phone conversations with their managers, while at the

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Speaker 1: same time we're expecting a surge and unemployment. Well, is the.

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Speaker 2: Belief that it's not good in the long term to

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Speaker 2: be on welfare for an extended period. I think everyone

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand since Michael Joseph seven days, want us

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Speaker 2: to have a good welfare state for those who have

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Speaker 2: short term need, but that hard core who do stay

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Speaker 2: on for sometimes two, three, five, eight years and do

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Speaker 2: need a bit of prodding. Who all the social investment

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Speaker 2: advice is. This is the biggest precursor of problems in

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Speaker 2: children's life, as if they grow up in a household

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Speaker 2: where none of the adults are actually unemployment. So it's

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Speaker 2: a bit of a being tough to be kind where

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Speaker 2: it's giving them that posh to say lots, yo, make

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Speaker 2: sure you are still doing job interviews. You're not just

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Speaker 2: seeing they're saying it's too hard. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: My issue is with the parents though, Like I can

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Speaker 1: understand you sanctions for single people or people who don't

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Speaker 1: have other people who for whom they're responsible in their lives.

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Speaker 1: But don't you think it's a bit rough to be

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Speaker 1: punishing children for the actions of their parents.

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Speaker 2: David, Well, it does come down to whether it's the

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Speaker 2: children being punished because you make assumption that every dollar

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Speaker 2: they're spending is actually going on the children, which isn't.

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Speaker 1: No, But if it's like, if you're sanctioning, sanctioning a

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Speaker 1: parent at the risk of their child maybe going hungry

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Speaker 1: or having a cold night or something, is that honestly

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Speaker 1: a better option, even if it does have some sort

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Speaker 1: of effect in prodding the parent, Is that honestly a

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Speaker 1: better option than just saying, you know what, we're just

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Speaker 1: going to continue paying this benefit knowing that there might

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Speaker 1: be a slightly higher chance that this kid is going

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Speaker 1: to have a warm meal in their belly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it comes as short and long term. First of all,

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Speaker 2: there's still emergency grants. Yeah, no one should be gained hungry.

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Speaker 2: We actually give out hundreds of thousands of emergency grants

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Speaker 2: every year to help people in that short term need.

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Speaker 2: And you don't lose your eligibiloody for those. But again,

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Speaker 2: if you look at what's going to affect these kids,

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Speaker 2: most in life is not gain hungry one day, it's

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Speaker 2: overwhelming me growing up on a household where is no

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Speaker 2: one working.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think once again it is

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Speaker 3: around that punishment. It's about the government feeling, you know,

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Speaker 3: good about doing it. I think the biggest sanction of

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Speaker 3: being on a benefits getting paid three hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: odd or whatever, it is a week like it's pretty

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Speaker 3: not a great life. And I think you know, all

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Speaker 3: the stats say most people are trying to get off

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Speaker 3: a benefit and actually these sanctions can make you in

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Speaker 3: a shame spiral. You have to sit in a group

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Speaker 3: with random people. In those A lot of those work

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Speaker 3: kind of conferences don't actually lead to employment. That's what

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Speaker 3: the studies say. In New Zealand anyway, David Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: has COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 1: The vaultures are circling. I can't think of a senior

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Speaker 1: Democrat who hasn't leaked. They had a conversation telling the

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Speaker 1: president to stand down. How long do you give him?

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Speaker 2: Well, I would have thought it would have happened by now.

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Speaker 2: The COVID might be the last store, because you shouldn't

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Speaker 2: judge someone of again COVID, But just as Trump is

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Speaker 2: looking like Superman, dodging bullets, rallies at Yeah. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: he's trying to not have people focus on he's old,

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Speaker 2: coming down with COVID, you know, just as such a

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Speaker 2: big contract. But the more serious stuff is that finally

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Speaker 2: Pelosi and Shumer, the leaders of the Democrat Party, and

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Speaker 2: Jeffreys and Congress have told him privately, you need to go,

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Speaker 2: but he's refusing. So of course they've leaked these conversations.

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Speaker 2: So now it's all wrong. Once folk, seeing your leaders

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Speaker 2: start leaking that we've told him to go, I can't

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Speaker 2: see a way he survives.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think I feel like the

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Speaker 3: COVID is a bit of this is the they do

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Speaker 3: it like, I'm too sick. I can't go on. You

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Speaker 3: can kind of tell. I mean, the sad thing is

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Speaker 3: for him in America is that he hasn't really done

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Speaker 3: anything wrong. He's been quite successful as a president, but

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Speaker 3: he's just like I guess, made a few stumbles.

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Speaker 1: He's adherent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's incoherent, but I mean so is Trump. He's

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Speaker 3: just on purpose, like pretty wild. I mean, he had

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Speaker 3: to get shot, which is just extraordinary. Yeah, things that

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Speaker 3: have happened in this campaign already, but I think it

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Speaker 3: won't be long.

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Speaker 1: I think the.

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Speaker 3: Issue is the Democrats and Biden have to decide is

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Speaker 3: it too hard to switch them out or is it

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Speaker 3: too hard to have Trump for four years? They have

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Speaker 3: to decide what that is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon, So I reckon. Within the next two weeks,

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Speaker 1: you've had the Republican National Convention. Trump has his big

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Speaker 1: speech tomorrow. Joe Biden gets a bit of time to

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Speaker 1: google himself while he's at home with COVID. He's going

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Speaker 1: to work out that no one wants him to stand.

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Speaker 1: That'll be the end of that. We're back with a

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Speaker 1: huddle in a couple of minutes. David Farah, Richard Hills.

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Speaker 1: How a huddle this evening David Farrer and Richard Hills

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Speaker 1: and Associate Health Minister Casey Costello has cut the excise

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Speaker 1: tax on some tobacco products, heated tobacco products by fifty percent,

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Speaker 1: she says, to make them a more attractive alternative to smoking.

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Speaker 2: What do you think, David, Well, I'm surprised it wasn't

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Speaker 2: already the case, because these alternatives to smoke tobacco definitely

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Speaker 2: not saying you should do, but they're much much less harmful,

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Speaker 2: So it's illogical to actually text them at the same

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Speaker 2: rate as you text smoke tobacco. So I think it's

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Speaker 2: entirely sensible. It's just the reason why vaping isn't text

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Speaker 2: it the same rate too, because if people are already smoking,

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Speaker 2: you'd rather they go to lesser harm products as long

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Speaker 2: as you acknowledge that it's not zero harm.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Richard, I had to read this twice to really like,

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Speaker 3: you know, what the heck has happened. First of all,

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Speaker 3: they get rid of our world leading smoke free legislation

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Speaker 3: kind of overnight, which said more people will die from smoking.

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Speaker 3: Then this happens, and even the World Health Organization says

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Speaker 3: there's no evidence that says these are better for your

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Speaker 3: house or better for you than secondhand smoking. They are

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Speaker 3: marketed to younger people. There isn't evidence saying that they're

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Speaker 3: being used to quit smoking, and if they are being

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Speaker 3: used to quit smoking, then they're just getting you addicted

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Speaker 3: on something else that could be equally as harmful. So

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Speaker 3: it's bizarre to me, even in the language this is

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Speaker 3: to make them more attractive than this thing. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: it's bizarre to me.

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Speaker 1: And the battle for compensation between Northland, doesn't Transpower has

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Speaker 1: stepped up or not? Northen MP Grant McCallum has sent

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Speaker 1: a letter to the acting CEO of Transpower demanding compensation

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Speaker 1: for customers in Northland and suggesting that perhaps Northland customers

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Speaker 1: could have their bills cut for a year or so.

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Speaker 1: That seems like a just outcome, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: I think, good on them, like he's a new MP,

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Speaker 3: Like that is what a good MP does. It won't happen.

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Speaker 3: It was, whether how ridiculous it was, it was still

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Speaker 3: an accident that you know, this would add precedent. But

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Speaker 3: good on them, Like that's what you do. You go

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Speaker 3: out to bat for your residents. You try your best

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Speaker 3: to get the outcome that they want. I doubt it

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Speaker 3: will happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what are sciences do you think? David?

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Speaker 2: I am not great, but maybe this should be a present.

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Speaker 2: What transparent? You tell he shouldn't be held libel for

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Speaker 2: genuine accidents? Yeah, yeah, but like lightning strikes.

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Speaker 1: Maybe for an act of God. It was a genuine accident.

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Speaker 1: It was just a hopeless accident.

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Speaker 2: Was well, we unshrewed all the bolts on the tower.

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Speaker 2: He does need there to be some consequence or center

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Speaker 2: for this not to hypen the game. Usually with companies,

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Speaker 2: the financial consequence is the only one they listened to.

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Speaker 2: Not that I'm sure that the higher ups. Yeah, what

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Speaker 2: said this was? You know we still have they do it?

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Speaker 1: Just yeah, I mean it seems bizarre to me, But

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Speaker 1: there's there's nothing that I can understand from a legislative

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Speaker 1: perspective that's going to require them. I mean, surely, David,

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Speaker 1: they're just going to throw this over to the insurance companies, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, what they might do is cool, goodwill, But the

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Speaker 2: problem is, I don't think Trenspower has the ability to

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Speaker 2: pass them on. You'd have to have all the retailers

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Speaker 2: agree they have trans Power reduces its charges for that

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Speaker 2: area that they will passer on. And yeah, there's around

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Speaker 2: eighteen different retailers. Unlikely.

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Speaker 1: Finally, Guys, I know you're both sort of sartorial experts,

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Speaker 1: but the latest fashion coming out of the Republican National

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Speaker 1: Convention is that lots of Donald Trump supporters, literally dozens

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Speaker 1: of them, are going around wearing bandages on their right ear.

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Speaker 1: What do you think, Rich, is it's a pretty slick look,

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Speaker 1: don't you think?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean every time I look at America, it's

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Speaker 3: like a bad Simpsons episode, Like it's.

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Speaker 1: Just I think these I honestly think these are legitimate,

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Speaker 1: legitimately funny. I mean it's like, regardless of what you're said, because.

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Speaker 3: They're not doing it to be funny. They're doing it

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Speaker 3: to give honor to And you know he did get shot,

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Speaker 3: which is just outrageous. Yeah, you know, two days later

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Speaker 3: he's had his conference. But yeah, I did see that.

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Speaker 1: Any political fashions that you think can compare with the

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Speaker 1: bandage on the year, David.

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Speaker 4: The funniest thing about that bandage, which I'm sure and

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Speaker 4: you have to know what team you are about, but

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Speaker 4: the one that did what happens when you order a

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Speaker 4: cushion off team move?

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Speaker 2: Because Team You's famous for those who know that.

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Speaker 1: As being a bit cheap, a like a bit you

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Speaker 1: know sometimes Yeah, no, good for it. Hey, thank you, David,

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Speaker 1: really appreciate it. David Pharaoh Richard Hills.

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Speaker 3: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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Speaker 3: news talks.

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Speaker 2: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio