1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: Kiyota. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a special bonus episode 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 2: of The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: New Zealand Herald. There have been no official talks yet 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 2: about compensation for the complainant against Gevin Mcskimming, The former 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: deputy police commissioner, is awaiting sentencing after pleading guilty to 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: having child sexual exploitation and beast reality material on his 8 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 2: work devices. A scathing watchdog report has found some of 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: the nation's highest ranking officers ignored a young woman's anonymous 10 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 2: complaints against mix Skimming. Instead, she was prosecuted for digital harassment. 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: The handling of the case has been called appolling by 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: the now Police Commissioner Richard Chambers and Police Minister Mark Mitchell. 13 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: Today on The. 14 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: Front Page, colleague HEROLD Senior reporter Jared Savage is with 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: us to take us behind the scenes of how this 16 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: case unfolded and how the sordid details came to light. 17 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 2: First off, Jared, how did this first come to your attention? 18 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: So late last year? Sort of December tweeny twenty four, 19 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: we started hearing sort of whispers around how Deputy Commissioner 20 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: gim Skimming was possibly under criminal investigation that related to 21 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: a complaint from a young woman who happened to have 22 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: worked for the police for some time. So we started, 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: you know, as we do, started sniffing around and trying 24 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: to find out what was going on, and we put 25 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: some questions into the police, saying, you know, what's going on, 26 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: essentially as the Deputy commissioner under investigation and so on 27 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: and so forth, and what happened. The response back was 28 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: a typical no comment, but they also said they also said, well, 29 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: there's actually another prosecution which we can't tell you about, 30 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: and there are massive suppression orders all over it, which 31 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: means that essentially you're gagged from saying anything. So that 32 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: was the starting point. We broke a story saying that 33 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: jem mcskimming was under investigation, but we can't retell you 34 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: much more than that. Now. As time went on, mc skimming, 35 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: the police investigation uncovered quite extreme pornographic material on his 36 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: work devices. So he denied these allegations that we couldn't report. 37 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: He denied these allegations saying I'm innocent, you know, and 38 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to coming back to work. That was 39 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: in January. Shortly after that, the police found the subjectionable 40 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: material on his devices, and that triggered a separate criminal investigation, 41 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: and as we now know, he pleaded guilty to a 42 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: possession of abjected material. He had to resign in disgrace, 43 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: and that easy yet to be sentenced on that. However, 44 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: there was this underlying what had happened was is that 45 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: the other investigation, which we couldn't report on, we kept 46 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: on digging and we've we found out what was going 47 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: on there. And what had happened was is that the 48 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: woman who had made these allegations about mic skimming had 49 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: in that been prosecuted for essentially a harassment campaign of 50 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: multiple emails, and so of course her defense was, well, 51 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: I'm telling I'm telling you, I'm telling the truth about 52 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: this guy. And that is only just this week we 53 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: managed to fight the suppressions getting uplifted. And that's what's 54 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: how everything has tumbled out in the last couple of days. 55 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 2: Because it would be so frustrating knowing that there was 56 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: something under the surface, being kind of so close but 57 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: yet so far because of those blanket suppressions. And it 58 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: is important though, when something is suppressed, when there are 59 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: two concurrent cases happening at the same time a suppression 60 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: on both of them, you need, right. 61 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in this case, the suppression orders were 62 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: put in at the time of that she was arrested 63 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: in the middle of last year. The suppression orders were 64 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: put in place ostensibly to protect mc skimmings's reputation. He 65 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: was about to put his hand up for the top job. 66 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: If they had been reporting of these emails accusing him 67 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: of being a sexual predator, obviously that wouldn't have been 68 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: good for his chances of getting that job, regardless of 69 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: the veracity of the allegations. So therefore, the suppressions were 70 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: put in place to sort of stop further harm to 71 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: him and his reputation and his Stanley. But of course 72 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: that's the narrative that he was putting putting forward, and 73 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: that was the reason why the police didn't take these 74 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: allegations from this young woman seriously at the time. They 75 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: didn't investigate them. They chose to basically accept his version 76 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: of events on face value, and that's led to these 77 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: charges and suppressions. And it was incredibly frustrated because, you know, 78 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: as we were on following these cases, you know, throughout 79 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: the year, we kind of knew that the IPC A 80 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: report was going to come out and make this quite 81 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: sort of damning findings about how senior police handled the allegations, 82 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: and up until you know, five pm on Tuesday on 83 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: Tuesday night, like, we were fighting to get it lifted 84 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: because if we didn't succeed, the IPC A report couldn't 85 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: be published and we can tell you the full story. 86 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: And yeah, very frustrating, but yeah, you've got a as 87 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: a reporter, you've got to stick to the six of 88 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: the laws and the rules, and you know, we're just 89 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: lucky that we had the resources to fight it. 90 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: I suppose, Jared, what kind of pressures are there that 91 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: come with reporting on people in power, especially within the 92 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: police hierarchy. You're juggling, you know, getting answers from police, 93 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: but obviously work very closely with them in your capacity 94 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: as a senior crime reporter. Is it quite difficult to juggle? 95 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, because often the people that you're speaking with are 96 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: unable to speak to you in an official capacity or 97 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: on the record, so you're just getting snippets of information 98 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: here or there. You know, the police have a large 99 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: communications team of pr advisors, so often when you're a reporter, 100 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: they actually can know a lot more than you about 101 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: the case or what's going on, So it can sometimes 102 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: be like shining a bit of a torch in a 103 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: darkened room. You can just see one little bit, but 104 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: you know there's other stuff happening in the in the shadows. 105 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: On top of that, you've got to be very careful 106 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: legally around not defaming people, making sure that everyone has 107 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: the right to reply. In this case, you had multiple 108 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: things going on. There was developments all the time, so 109 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: you're having to report at speed and have political ramifications 110 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: as well. So this was a this was quite a 111 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: tricky story to report on. Now that the floodgates are open, 112 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: it's all it's all coming out, and that's great because 113 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: sunlight's the best disinfectant and and that's brilliant. But but at 114 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: the time when you're reporting on things, yeah, you're not 115 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: you're not always entirely one hundred percent certain, and you've 116 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: got to work really hard to confirm things or corroborate 117 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: things even when people aren't, you know, cooperating essentially, And 118 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: in this case, the suppression order has made it harder 119 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: as well, because people could just turn around, you know, 120 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: government agencies and departments or individuals involved could say we 121 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: can't talk to you about that because it's suppressed. So yeah, 122 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: and at the same time, you as a journalist, you're 123 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: wanting to be incredibly fear to people like you know 124 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: you're making these you're publishing these allegations. You know you've 125 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: got to give everyone an opportunity to be heard. And yeah, 126 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: you fight, you walk a fine line at times. 127 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 3: I mean, I lead an organization of fifteen thousand men 128 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: and woman who do an incredible job day and night 129 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 3: across the country. I know how hard they work because 130 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 3: I'm connected to the front line. You know this report, 131 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: the findings, there's a kick in the guts for them. 132 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: They are no different to me. 133 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 3: We take a huge amount of pride in the job 134 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 3: that we do for our country. That won't change. What 135 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 3: will change is we will make a swift action of 136 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 3: implementing this with my new leadership team, and we will 137 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 3: do our absolute best to ensure this never happens again. 138 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: It doesn't really seem like Chambers or Mitchell were too 139 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: privy to a lot of this information before the IPCA 140 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: report actually landed on their desks. I mean, what did 141 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: you think reading those one hundred and thirty five pages. 142 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: It's a bombshell of a report. May have seen anything 143 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: quite like it. Into of fifteen twenty years of reporting 144 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: on these matters, that really dived into a lot of detail, 145 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: the intermassinations of what was happening at Police National Headquarters 146 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 1: and the failures of many senior beliefs to not investigate 147 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: what was run in front of them. They actually named 148 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: certain officers and they're including the former Commissioner Andrew Costa, 149 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: and detail quite significant failings over a long period of 150 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: time by a number of police officers. Essentially, what it 151 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: boils down to is this young woman has made allegations 152 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: of quite serious sexual and physical nature against jem mcskimming. 153 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: His explanation for all of this was, look, we were 154 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: in a consensual a year. It's ended badly and this 155 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: is a campaign of harassment or revenge to destroy my career. 156 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: And instead of stopping to think, well, maybe she's telling 157 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: the truth here and maybe we need to investigate, but 158 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: just wholesale brought his vision of events, and you know, 159 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: it's brought down the entire weight of the States to 160 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: prosecute her and drag her through the court system. And 161 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: so it's a huge power balance. Yeah, it's it's quite 162 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: it's a staggering report in the end, like the police 163 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: didn't lay criminal charges against Geno Mixginning in relation to 164 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: her complaint, but that you know, that's sort of that's 165 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: sort of by the buy and away this this report 166 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: details with this this long running attempts to Yeah, they 167 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: just they just didn't look at it. And it's it's 168 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: quite staggering and it's been a huge amount of damage 169 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: to the New Zealand place. Yeah. 170 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: I've read a fair few I p c A reports 171 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: and similar as well A And what struck me was 172 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: the language. It was quite emotive, more emotive than what 173 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 2: you would expect with these kind of things. So I 174 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: actually remember gasping when I saw the press release come 175 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 2: through from Richard Chambers using the word appalling, which is unusual. 176 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, very you could sense, I mean he said 177 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: he was angry, and you could sense the anger in 178 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: the press release, but also the subsequent press conference with 179 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: Richard Chambers, the police, mister Mark Mitchell and Judith Collins 180 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: attune in general quite an emotional press conference, a lot 181 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: of anger and disappointment in it. I think it's because 182 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: they realized the damage that this does to the reputation 183 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: of the New Zealand Police. It brings up or resurrects 184 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: a lot of bad memories from the Beijley Reports sort 185 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: of twenty years ago, where again there were allegations of 186 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: cover ups and serious sexual complaints made against police officers. 187 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: You know, so this is history repeating in some regards, 188 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: and you know, I guess the police would have been 189 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: kind of hoping some of those attitudes of bariing in 190 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: the past. But I mean, here it's it's quite clear 191 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: that they they believe Mick Skimmings vision of events and 192 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: they didn't want to hurt his shot at the top job. 193 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: And it's it's it's it's. 194 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: Remarkable as a reporter, how does it feel sitting on 195 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 2: this information and what does a day in the life 196 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: look like when you're trying to hunt down these leads. 197 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: Most of it is really boring league work, So it's. 198 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: Not like the movies and Spotlight where they're running around 199 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 2: town and opening up files and things. 200 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: Certainly not quite as dramatic as the movies make out, 201 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: but I mean a lot of it is simply calling people, 202 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: filing requests for court documents, talking to two people involved 203 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: in the case, and just sort of trying to piece 204 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: piece it all together. We had quite a nervous wait 205 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: on Tuesday. We were obviously waiting to we you know, 206 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: we had engage lawyers to try and get uppressions lift it, 207 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: and we had a story prepared to go, and you know, 208 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: little bits and pieces were leaking out and other you know, 209 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: other media, and you know, there's there's pressure to make 210 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: sure that we're complying with the suppression orders. They'd also 211 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: be the first to break the story, and so yeah, 212 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 1: it was a bit of a relief when we were 213 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: able to do so and get it out at sort 214 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: of you know, five oh one on Tuesday night, and 215 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 1: everything just fell out of that, and obviously there was 216 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: a bit of a feeding frenzy with the press conference 217 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: and the ips air report coming out. So yeah, it's 218 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: a good reminder actually about you know, the value of 219 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: transparency and the value and journalists, you know, and it 220 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: wasn't just me, it's other journalists and other newsrooms as well, 221 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: and also without our newsroom, support of editors and lawyers 222 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: to try and get this over the line so that 223 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: people could be fully informed about it. And I guess 224 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: that shows the value of the media, and it's sort 225 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: of watched og role in the. 226 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: Fourth estate, and we'll just end on that. I think 227 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: one of the most important aspects of this story, and 228 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: that's the woman involved at the center of this case. 229 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: So I understand that you've spoken to her legal counsel. 230 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: Yes, I've spoken to Stephen Lackett, who barised an author. Yep. 231 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: He you know, he gave quite a strong statement to 232 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: the Herald for that first story in relation to how 233 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: the police had failed his client, that instead of treating 234 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: her as a potential victim, that they have chosen to 235 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: ignore her essentially and brought the full weight of the 236 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: state down instead of devastating impact on her. The Lewis 237 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: is and so I would not be surprised that at 238 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: some point there's going to be some kind of civil 239 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: or compensation kind of claim brought against the police in 240 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: relation to this. And yeah, it'll be interesting to see 241 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: how that plays out as well. 242 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Jared Legia Jose. 243 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: Thank you. 244 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 245 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 246 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: at ends at herold dot co z. The Front Page 247 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 2: is produced by Jane Yee and Richard Martin, who's also 248 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front page 249 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 250 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.