1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty unparalleled reach 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: and results. 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: On the Huddles this evening, we've got Jack Tame, host 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 2: of Saturday Mornings in Q and A, and Nick leg At, 5 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: CEO of Infrastructure New Zealand. Hello are you two kilder Jack? 6 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: How long do you reckon? The government has got to 7 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 2: demonstrate that this issue is being fixed. 8 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 3: I reckon. If things haven't materially improved in the perceptions 9 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 3: of those inner city business owners, then business signers right 10 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 3: around the country by November of this year, then things 11 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 3: are going to get very tricky. And no doubt there 12 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 3: are all sorts of things that are contributing to the 13 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 3: rise in crime or the perceptions around a rising crime. 14 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 3: I'd say a big one is just economic insecurity, Like 15 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 3: you see this every time the economy stink. You see 16 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 3: in other countries when the economy stink. Basically you can 17 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 3: directly link a downturn in the economy with a rise 18 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 3: in this sort of crime. So this shouldn't come as 19 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 3: any great No, no, no, Jack, This. 20 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: Stuff is that's not fair. This stuff has been going on, yeah, 21 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: but this stuff going on preceding our recession, while we 22 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 2: were all flushed with cash because it was COVID. 23 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 3: But we were insecure right because we didn't know exactly 24 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: what the future held. This has been. We might have 25 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 3: had money for the in the short term sense, but 26 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 3: I don't think anyone had any great sense of certainty 27 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 3: about the future. And I mean this has been this 28 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 3: situation has been replicated in cities right across the world. 29 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 3: Look at the likes of New York and other cities, 30 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 3: but there's lots of places of experience this. But so 31 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 3: I think for things to really improve, as well as 32 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 3: all of the policing things, as well as all of 33 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 3: the justice things, we're going to need to to see 34 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 3: things on the social side, but also is probably going 35 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 3: to need to see an improvement in the economy, and 36 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 3: that's going to take time. And the problem is that 37 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: the government has been elected on some very big promises 38 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 3: when it comes to improving public safety and improving our 39 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 3: crime measures. And if people don't feel like things have 40 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: materially improved sometime soon, I reckon they're given a year 41 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: by November, then I reckon people are going to be 42 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 3: really titchy. 43 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you reckon it? 44 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 4: I think it's a pretty fair assessment. I think people 45 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 4: want a bit of the sort of strong arm of 46 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 4: the law to crack down on those that are making 47 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 4: others feel unsafe in city centers. But I also I 48 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 4: completely agree with Jack in the sense that it is 49 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 4: part of this is economic, but also this is an 50 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 4: opportunity for the government to test out social investment. We 51 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 4: know who these people are, right, this is a small country. 52 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 4: It's not as though this problem is so big that 53 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 4: we've got to deal with thousands of recidivious defenders. If 54 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 4: we can target social resources to supporting those people, dealing 55 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 4: with the ones through the justice system faster, I think 56 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 4: is the end pointed out and what he said, but 57 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 4: actually then actually getting people house, getting people into a 58 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 4: situation where they're not tempted to go in and commit 59 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 4: crime and intimidate people around central cities, then we'll be 60 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 4: in a better position. And look, I think people do 61 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 4: you know you can quote stats and I think it's 62 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 4: great by the sounds of it. The patrols of increased. 63 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 4: People have got to feel something different and the government 64 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 4: might have a bit longer than November for that because 65 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 4: there is an election for two and a half years, 66 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 4: but people there needs to be a feeling and a 67 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 4: perception that things have changed and things are on the improvement. 68 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 4: And you know that there is not a lot of 69 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 4: time for that, but I do think it might go 70 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 4: a little bit beyond November. 71 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got a period of grace have and that 72 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: all right, guys, I want to talk to you about 73 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: the Marty Party allegations. Will come back and do that, right, 74 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: you're back with the hudd Nick LEGGANDT and Jack taym Nick. 75 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 2: Do you think there needs to be a single, wider 76 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 2: inquiry into these Marty Party allegations rather than the whole 77 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: bunch of bitsy stuff going on from these government agencies. 78 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 3: Yes, I do. 79 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 4: I think that the accusations are serious enough that there 80 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 4: does need to be a wider look. I mean we're 81 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 4: talking about obviously the potential the allegation around misusing public 82 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 4: funds and also public information. I've seen some text messages 83 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 4: which suggest there was a get out the vote campaign. 84 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 4: I don't know if there's any evidence or suggestion it 85 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 4: went be on that. 86 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 3: But the other. 87 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 4: Aspect is that we're talking about forty two votes in 88 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 4: a seat that actually impacts the proportionality of our parliament. 89 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 4: If Penny Hennade had won that seat, the opposition would 90 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 4: have had one less MP because we're an overhang territory 91 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 4: with because the Marti Party won more electrics from their 92 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 4: party vote allowed them to So this is really serious 93 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 4: as an accusation, and I think that at warrants, you know, 94 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 4: we need to show that as a country we take 95 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 4: misuse of public money and impact of electioneering potentially impacting 96 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 4: elections as being really serious. 97 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 3: Jack. 98 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: It seems to me that it would also be in 99 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: the best interests of all of the party parties who 100 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: have these allegations leveled against them to have a big 101 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: wide inquiry. 102 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I often think that, you know, like 103 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 3: if accusations of this gravity are leveled against you and 104 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 3: you are so certain you know of your innocence and 105 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: that you've done nothing wrong to Party Marti and SIS 106 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 3: they have so far, and you know, John Tummerheadis has 107 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 3: refuted all of the allegations made against him and to 108 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 3: Party Mahrti so far, then you would think that absolutely, 109 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 3: you know that maximum daylight, you know, maximum exposure would 110 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: be in your interest because it would vindicate you. That 111 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 3: being said, you're quite right, like at the moment that 112 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 3: the investigations or the inquiries seem to be a little 113 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: bit bitsy because you have different agencies the police are involved, 114 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 3: which I think is is vital one aspect. Yeah, Yeah, 115 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 3: that's right. I think I think we sort of need 116 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 3: to first of all, just have an absolute commitment that 117 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 3: the inquiry are going to be made public. Yeah, I 118 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 3: think that's kind of kind of vital. But I'd like 119 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: to just to see a bit more about the terms 120 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 3: of reference as to which you know, agency is kind 121 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: of inquiring about. 122 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 2: So also, Jack, because the allegations, there are so many 123 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: different allegations, you have to be sure that every single 124 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 2: one of them is being investigated by the appropriate agency 125 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: rather than the COPP is just looking at this one aspect. 126 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. But you know, and it's quite right. 127 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 3: You know obviously that there is reason from an electoral perspective, 128 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 3: you know, to have a kind of a keen interest 129 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 3: over you know, given the margin and that seat was 130 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: so narrow. But I think even regardless of that, like 131 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 3: to take you know, the allegations around the misuse of 132 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 3: sensis starter for example, but that is a really really 133 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: serious allegation, a really serious allegation, and even if there were, 134 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 3: you know, a margin of ten thousand seats for that seat. 135 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 3: I think it's well worth, you know, in investigating, you know, 136 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 3: as much as possible. 137 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 2: But I mean, and the point that Bryce Edwards made, 138 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 2: and I know this is kind of a hobby horse 139 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: for Bryce, but I feel like he's bang on. We 140 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: need something bigger, like an anti corruption agency. Like we're 141 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 2: a big boy country now right, we have to stop 142 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 2: pretending that we're somehow whiter than white. 143 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 4: I have some sympathy with that, to be honest. It's it's, 144 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 4: you know, when you're going to be grown up and 145 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 4: accept that bad things can happen in a little old 146 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 4: New Zealand and that resource, public resources can be misused, 147 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 4: that you know that sometimes procurement isn't straight up and 148 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 4: people get things because of who they know. Of course 149 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 4: that happens. And I mean, I'm loath here that I 150 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 4: want to set up at the new Department for every 151 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 4: good idea, but this is actually about protecting our reputation 152 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 4: and assurance to the public about the use of their resources. 153 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 4: So yeah, I've got some somebody to that, all. 154 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: Right, Jack, how do you feel about the water coolers 155 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: being taken out of the Canterbury police stations to save money. 156 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: It saves eleven thousand dollars. But the coppers say they 157 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 2: need cold water because they get really hot in their vests. 158 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 3: Well, I'm kind of with them, And to be honest, 159 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:42,239 Speaker 3: I'm surprised, given the government's kind of position on cracking 160 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: down on crime and wanting to believe you police to 161 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 3: be more out on the streets and that kind of thing, 162 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 3: that they're not letting this kind of thing go. Like 163 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 3: have you worn one of those vests? No, they are, 164 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 3: they're heavy and they're really hot, and you know, I 165 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 3: just would have thought for the sake of ten thousand 166 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 3: dollars across Canterbury, you know, it's such a minor thing, 167 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 3: and if it means that police. 168 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: This and though isn't it was Andy Coster doing this. 169 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 3: Well it's been told to save money, right, And I 170 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: just would have thought. I just would have thought, you know, what, 171 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: is now the time you really want to be perceived 172 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 3: as squeezing police to save every dollar incent possible, or 173 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 3: really do you want to be offering those officers on 174 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: the frontline maximum support? And I just would have thought, 175 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 3: you know, you look at something like this, you pair 176 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 3: it with the pay dispute with police at the moment, 177 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 3: and then you pair it with the language that you 178 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: know of the new government around cracking down on crime. 179 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 3: But hang on, I'm not sure that they think necessarily 180 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 3: for together. 181 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 2: The thing also, Nick, is I mean, the thing that 182 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 2: really struck me about this is that they want to 183 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: drink water from water coolers. Water coolers are disgusting. 184 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 4: Well, well, look it's personal choice, isn't it. I I'm 185 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 4: with Jack, I think. I mean the first story you 186 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 4: ran to I was talking about empowering the police, getting 187 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 4: them out on the beat, getting them to do do 188 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 4: a good job. That's the principle for me here. And 189 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 4: if water callers help them do that, that's great. But 190 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 4: can I be cynical? Can you indulge my cynicism for 191 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 4: a moment. This is the oldest trick in the public 192 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 4: service book. Yes, don't tell me that there isn't a 193 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 4: middle management budget that could have lost eleven thousand dollars. 194 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 3: From it somewhere in Canterbury Police. 195 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 4: This is about provoking a deliberate public reaction by cutting 196 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 4: something that people value, public servants value, to get to 197 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 4: try and drive a message home about cuts and I 198 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 4: don't think we should accept it. I refuse to accept it. 199 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 4: Find the money from elsewhere. The new budget making people 200 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 4: on the front pot frontlines up. 201 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 2: Your cynicism is bang on, mate, Thank you very much. 202 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 2: A pair of you, Jack Tame Nichola get a huddle this. 203 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: Evening for more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live 204 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: to News Talk said Be from four pm weekdays, or 205 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.