1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Kyoda. 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented. 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 3: By the New Zealand Herald. Ever feel like you're getting. 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 2: Less bang for your buck at the supermarket, Well you 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 2: might be right. As production costs rise, many companies have 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 2: been resorting to what's called shrink flation. Rather than raising 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: the cost to the consumer, they make the product smaller 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 2: while charging the same price. According to a Global Inflation 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: Monitor survey in twenty twenty three, forty six percent of 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 2: consumers said that they have noticed shrink flation, with fifty 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 2: five percent of Kiwi consumers noticing at the tactic and 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: the same amount stating the practice was an unacceptable response 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: to rising costs. Today, on the Front we're joined by 15 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 2: Massive University marketing professor Bodo Lang to discuss the ethics 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: behind shrink flation. First off, Bodo, what exactly is shrink flation? 17 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: So shrinkflation is really the same as inflation, but in 18 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: a slightly different manner. You're paying more for the same product, 19 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: but rather than inflation, what it means is that you're 20 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: paying the same price as before, but you're getting less 21 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: product for it. So inflation really just means you're paying 22 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, the prices are increasing, but the product quantity 23 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: is saying the same. Shrinkflation means you're paying the same 24 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: but you're actually getting less product for it. 25 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 3: How long has this concept of shrink flation been around 26 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: for It's. 27 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: Been around for a long time, and I think it's 28 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: certainly become more and more frequent the more data that 29 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: retailers and manufacturers have had about how consumers respond to 30 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: different marketing stimuli, increasing price, for example, and so once 31 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: they've cottoned on to the fact that consumers are very 32 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: sensitive to price changes because price is often advertised very 33 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: heavily in advertisements at the point of sales, and it's 34 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: generally the most important, certainly one of the most important 35 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: attributes that people look at when they make a purchase. 36 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: So therefore, changes in price are highly likely to result 37 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: in a reduction of people buying that particular product and trimflation. 38 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: So keeping the price the same but setting slightly less product, 39 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: so let's say, ten percent less product for the same price, 40 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: is a sneaky way to get around that effect, because 41 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: most consumers would not have an idea that the quantity 42 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: of the product that they're buying is decreasing. 43 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 2: Right, So there's more of an opportunity for the consumer 44 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: to realize the price has gone up rather than their 45 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: product decreasing. 46 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: Noticing the increase in quantity of a product is extremely unlikely. 47 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: You know, just think of how you and I might 48 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: go shopping in a supermarket or anywhere else really for 49 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: that matter, whether there's you know, one hundred nails or 50 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: nineteen nails in a box at a doi store, or 51 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: whether I get you know, maybe one kg or nine 52 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: hundred grams of a cheese. You know, those are things 53 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: that are that are pretty well hidden. And certainly when 54 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: it comes to can products and things like this, I 55 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: would say virtually no consumer checks the quantity that they're buying. 56 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: They always check the price, but I would say virtually 57 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: never do they check their quantity. And obviously unit pricing, 58 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: which will become mandatory, is one way around this and 59 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: making this visible. But on the downside of this is 60 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: if everybody in a category, so let's say cheeses or 61 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: milks or whatever it is, or chocolate, if everybody in 62 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: that category is shrink flating, so they're keeping the price 63 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: the same but they're reducing the quantity, then that effect 64 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: is still invisible to consumers because the unit price across 65 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: all of the products is decreasing or it's changing at 66 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: the same time. 67 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 2: What sort of products are we saying becoming victims of this? 68 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: Certainly products that are fast moving, so we call them 69 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: in the trade FMCG, so fast moving consumer goods. So 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: really anything in retail, and particularly growth through a retail 71 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: where people don't have a lot of time, they make 72 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: purchases frequently and the point of sale is saturated with products. 73 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: The typical New Zealand supermarket has tens of thousands of products, 74 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: so hiding these quantity decreases is really really easy. And 75 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: the types of products that would be particularly prone to 76 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: this would be products where consumers are particularly price sensitive, 77 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: So you know, where manufacturers know that consumers will react 78 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: negatively to a price increase, they will just simply decrease 79 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: the quantity without anybody noticing. 80 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 4: That's our cracking down on corporations engage in price galleging 81 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 4: interceptive pricing. In fact, the snack companies think you will 82 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 4: notice if they chase the size of the bag and 83 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 4: put a hell of a lot fewer same size bag, 84 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 4: put fewer chips in it. No, I'm not joking. It's 85 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 4: called stringflation, you get charge the same amount you got 86 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 4: about I don't know ten percent fewer snickers in it, 87 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 4: to be. 88 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: Honest, it could be anything. And I think the best 89 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: example of how not to do it I can think 90 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: of is probably Cadbury from some years ago. They made 91 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: three changes to their product and they've never recovered from 92 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: that compromise position. They've their market sally has shrunk incredibly 93 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: since then. And the opposite of how to do it, 94 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: how to deal with increasing raw ingredient prices, is probably 95 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: really nicely showcased by Whittakers who just in the last 96 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: few months said, look, the cost of our raw ingredients 97 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: is increasing. We don't want to sacrifice the quality of 98 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: chocolate because we're really proud of it. Therefore we're really sorry, 99 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: but we have to put up the price. And their 100 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: price increase was pretty hefty. But I think they've just 101 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: done a really textbog marketing job of being transparent, maintaining 102 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: trust with consumers and explaining why they're doing it. So 103 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: they could have hidden this, you know, instead of two 104 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty grams, maybe you only getting two hundred 105 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: and twenty five grams, but people would have gotten onto 106 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: this and in the age of social media, I think 107 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: there is bound to be a backlash, particularly for a 108 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: product that people buy for hedonic reasons, so for enjoyment. 109 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 3: What did Cabri do? 110 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: So? 111 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: Petbury did three things. This is quite a few years 112 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: ago now. So they changed the formulation of their products, 113 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: so they went from vegetable oil to palm oil because 114 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: that was cheaper. They changed the packaging and they also 115 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: changed the sizing. And so they did three things in 116 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: quick succession. And I think it was incredibly ill conceived. 117 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: You can just see how it would have occurred somebody 118 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: somewhere sitting in front of a spreadsheet, not really thinking 119 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: about how people feel about chocolate and the emotional connection 120 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: and all this sort of stuff, just going we need 121 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: to make more money on this. And then they made 122 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,679 Speaker 1: these three changes in quick succession, and to put it loosely, 123 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: they got absolutely hammered by the market and their market 124 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: share just shrunk away, sizzled away, and Whittakers, you know, 125 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: at the time, a relatively small New Zealand manufacturer of chocolate, 126 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: was the sole benefittor pretty much of that disaster. And 127 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: I don't think Cadbury is anywhere close to where they 128 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: were back then in market share, so they're still suffering 129 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: from those consequences. 130 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: Could this be a temporary issue in some cases? I mean, 131 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 2: could we see some products return to their original size 132 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: given the backlash they receive, or have we not actually 133 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: seen that yet? 134 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: Like to be an optimist, and I would love to 135 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: be able to say I think we will see those 136 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: coming back, but I think the realist in me says 137 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: there is no way that's going to happen. Just as 138 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: prices generally never decrease, you know, after the global financial crisis, 139 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: after the COVID pandemic, you know, they were short term 140 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: increases in prices, but those prices never come down again. 141 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: And I think we will see the same thing here. 142 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: Unless there is a really robust consumer revolt and a 143 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: basically boycotting of a particular brand of a particular product, 144 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: then the manufacturer might say, well, actually, we've listened to consumers, 145 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: which is what they should do in the first place, 146 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: if they did good marketing, and we've gone back to 147 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: the original quantity, we haven't compromised on the ingredients, and 148 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: we will try to keep the old price for as 149 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: long as we can. I think there is a very 150 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: small chance that some selected brands might react to that 151 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: if there is sufficient backlash from consumers, but by and large, 152 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: I don't think we will see those prices or coming 153 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: down all those quantities going back up again. 154 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: What should we be on the lookout for at the supermarket? 155 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 3: Supermarkets in New Zealand. 156 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 2: Are already starting to show unit pricing right correck, So 157 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 2: is that something that we need to take more notice of. 158 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: There's a raft of suggestions that you know, research has 159 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: shown work really well. So the first one is go 160 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: shopping with a shopping list. Second one is go and 161 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: have a look online to see where you can actually 162 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: get the product for the least money. Because just something 163 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: is on special somewhere doesn't mean that that's actually the 164 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: lowest price. Certainly, stockpile products when they're available at a 165 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: particularly low price, and that is particularly sensible for products 166 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: that you may not consume more of just because we 167 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: happened serve them at home. So an example would be, 168 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, dishwashing liquid or table salt or toilet paper. 169 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: An example of where this could backfire would be products 170 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: that we might consume more of when we have more 171 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: of them at home, and the typical example for me 172 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: would be chocolate, so buy more when the price is 173 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: low and stockpile them. If you can, definitely go shopping 174 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: with a shopping list, go and have a look on 175 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: line at prices to save money, and you can save 176 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: significant amounts. I mean, there's a lot of research that 177 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: was published in the last twelve months here in New 178 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: Zealand of how much variation there is in supermarket prices 179 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: across an identical item over even just six weeks, and 180 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: consumers can make huge amounts of saving that will easily 181 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: outpace inflation. So it's actually a little bit of work, 182 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: but it's quite easy to save money on groceries if 183 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: you want to put your mind to it. 184 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: Is there anything that could stop shrinkflation from happening because 185 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 2: it's not a legal Is. 186 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: It not illegal? Absolutely? Any manufacturer can do it, and 187 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: you know it is in a way fair enough. If 188 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: their prices go up for raw ingredients, then they need 189 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: to somehow pass it on if they want to maintain 190 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: their current profit levels. Certainly not illegal. What could stop it? 191 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: I think the one thing I could think of is 192 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: that generally brands are very quick in pointing out if 193 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: something has improved, so they might have a little sticker 194 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: on saying new improved recipe or new flame or something, 195 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: and it's relatively cheap to do that. Maybe it could 196 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: be manatorid legislation. Basically, if there is a longer term 197 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: quantity change in the product, if the government were to 198 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: regulate and say, look, you've got to actually notify people 199 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: off this, just tell them that you're selling them ten 200 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: percent less now, because as I said earlier, I think 201 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: there is virtually no chance that consumers would discover this 202 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: by themselves. 203 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 3: You haven't met my dad, then I reckon he would 204 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 3: clue on. 205 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: But he's few and far between, isn't he the ones 206 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: that actually sit down and go through the unit pricing 207 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: and how much you get for your buck. 208 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 5: This morning, the cookie monster has had enough. His beef 209 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 5: with shrink flation is getting attention on Capitol Hill. After 210 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 5: he posted quote me hate shrink flation, me cookies are 211 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 5: getting smaller. Senator Shared Brown responded, me too, cookie monster. 212 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 5: People in my state of Ohio are fed up. They 213 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 5: should get all the cookie they pay for. 214 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: In terms of the supermarket Commissioner, I know that that 215 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 2: we when we speak about supermarkets, we're usually talking about 216 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: price gouging and then not they're not being enough competition. 217 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: Is this something that should really be perhaps on that 218 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: commissioner's radar. 219 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: I think it should be, and I would be surprised 220 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 1: if it wasn't already on the grocery commissioner's radar, because 221 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: it's a really rampant issue, I think, particularly in FMCGs 222 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: and grocery retailing. I think, to be honest, it is 223 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: misleading consumers because the chances of them discovering this. So 224 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: if he had one thousand people going shopping and they 225 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: buy fifty items each, and let's say twenty percent of 226 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: those were somehow shrinking, I think very few consumers would 227 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: detect all of that shrinkage. In fact, I would say 228 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: nobody would detect all of that shrinkage. So it is 229 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: misleading consumers because they assume, probably quite rightly, that the 230 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: quantity they bought last week is still the quantity this week. 231 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: But of course that's not That shrinkage is not being 232 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: advertised manufacturers. 233 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,599 Speaker 2: And so would your main piece of advice to manufacturers 234 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 2: just be open and honest, don't try and sneaky your 235 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: way through it. 236 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it depends on what sort of brand 237 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: you have, And this is obviously where the power of 238 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: marketing comes in. Woodeckers has a fantastic brand that is 239 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: one of the most trusted brands in New Zealand, and 240 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: so they can do this and this will further enhance 241 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: their trust. Many of these other brands, they're global, multinational 242 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: companies that are humongers in size, and people don't really 243 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: know the brand. They certainly don't know the company, but 244 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: they might know the brand. I think if the brand 245 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: is suitable and has that sort of base, I think 246 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: that could be one way forward to say, look, this 247 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: is what we're doing, and you know, advertising these things 248 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: via social media is relatively straightforward. I think in an 249 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: age of increased consumer skepticism, it is really just good 250 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: practice to be as transparent as one can be to 251 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: avoid consumer backlash because, as we know from Cadbury, some 252 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: brands just never recover again. 253 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 3: And lastly, what are some examples that have really got 254 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 3: your goat? 255 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: This is a good question. So I don't go grocery 256 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: shopping all too often, but I certainly have noticed that 257 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, you know, cheeses have 258 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: become available in all sorts of sizes, and so you 259 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: think you're spending less, but actually really you're spending more. 260 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: Because you're spending you're probably paying the same amount of 261 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: money for, you know, a greatly reduced quantity of cheese. 262 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: And what gets me there always is, you know, I 263 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: can't get my head around how this is possible with 264 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: one of the world's largest dairy manufacturers here in the country. 265 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: So I always struggle with that in comparing it to 266 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: prices that I know exists overseas, where you know, we 267 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: can get cheeses for a lot less, And so I 268 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: think if a product is a really high in price 269 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: here and unreasonably so in my view, then I think 270 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: gre inflation really irks me. 271 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, bodo my pleasure. 272 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 273 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 274 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: at enziherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 275 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Seals. Patty Fox and Richard Martin are 276 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 2: the sound engineers. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front 277 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 278 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.