1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: So we've had another major exit in our crumbling health sector. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Director General of Health Diana Safati has resigned. She will 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: leave the role promptly. In a statement, Safati highlighted the 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: challenge of restricting and unifying an entire health system and 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: how it was not to be underestimated, as she announced 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: her final day will be next Friday. That soon. This 7 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: is after the Director of Public Health stepped down on Monday. 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: Health New Zealand's Chief execu left last Friday, and the 9 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: Health New Zealand board was sacked last year. So joining 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: me now is Health New Zealand. Former Health New Zealand 11 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: chair Rob Campbell. 12 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 2: To you, Rob good as mean. 13 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: So the Health spokesperson Petty Henery describes the changes as 14 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: a government orchestrated blood bath. Is this a sign of 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: unwards wanted people being cleared out? 16 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: Look, I actually don't forget that it is. I think 17 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: people have reached these decisions under tremendous pressure of trying 18 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: to run a dysfunctional system without enough money and without 19 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: enough clarity of I think it's that more than people 20 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: having their headcut off. 21 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: So if that's the case, what needs to be done, Well. 22 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: There's obviously a deep problem and it's been there for 23 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: a while. It didn't happen under this government or under 24 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: the previous government alone, but there is a need to 25 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: rethink the way we run our health system. We can't 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: run it by recycling public service heads and XDHB people 27 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 2: X Ministry of Health people through the system. It needs 28 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: some press thinking if we're going to be able, if 29 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 2: we're going to address these sort of issues. 30 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: So if we're getting new blood, do they need to 31 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: have a clinical background or has that proven in effective? 32 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: Well? I think a clinical background in the terms of 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: understanding is absolutely essential, but it's not so much that 34 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: the person holding this position has to be explentation that 35 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: they have to be able to listen to clinicians and 36 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: the other professionals in the health service as to what 37 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: it is is really needed and what can be done. 38 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 2: They need to listen not just to the people in 39 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: the public health system, but also out there in the 40 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: private sector, because the great amount now of health services 41 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 2: in New Zealand, from GPS to midwives two number of 42 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: private hospitals and other sort of facilities are driven and 43 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: run by private sector interests, and you have to be 44 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: able to work with all of these to make this work. 45 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: Well, that's quite hard to find. That's a special skill set. 46 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's not easy to find, I'm sure, But 47 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 2: there's lots of positions available, and I think there are 48 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: people who with the right sort of freedom to act 49 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: and with the right sort of political support, would be 50 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: more than willing to take it on. There's lots of 51 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: people working in various bits of the health sector who 52 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: have the capability to do this, but they need those 53 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: two things. They need some freedom to act and they 54 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: need some political support, and that may mean spending, But 55 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: spending is only part of it. They need to support 56 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 2: for a new direction. 57 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, you're talking about very special people. 58 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: As I said before, extended skill sets. Do we even 59 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: pay enough to attract the sort of people who have 60 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: those skills? 61 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: Well, you know, pays not all of it, And to 62 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 2: match the sort of skills we need on a globle 63 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: market would be very very hard, indeed, and it would 64 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: be pretty distorting to do this. So now I think 65 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: we've got to find the right person. I think the 66 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: right person would be readily available at the sort of 67 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 2: money we're paying out. I really don't get that to 68 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 2: the issue. 69 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: And with three so rapidly. Is this any reflection on 70 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: Simeon Brown, the new Minister of Health. 71 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: I don't think you end off there quickly. He's only 72 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: just walked. He don't just walk to the door. Not 73 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: this reflects long standing and big seeded problems. And after 74 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: all the Commissioner at the moment only has a few 75 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: months less than iasa understand on his prison contract. That 76 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: could be more to go here. 77 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: Good stuff. Rob Campbell, former Health New Zealand here, thank 78 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: you for your time. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen 79 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: Drive listen live to news talks it'd be from four 80 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.