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Speaker 1: It's one of the most successful New Zealand tech companies

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Speaker 1: you probably haven't heard of.

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Speaker 2: Utilities management software company gen Track has just celebrated ten

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Speaker 2: years listed on the ENZIEX and ASX exchanges has seen

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Speaker 2: its share price jump one hundred and thirty four percent

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Speaker 2: in the last year, giving it a billion dollar market cap.

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Speaker 1: As electricity and water providers look to upgrade the aging

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Speaker 1: systems underpinning the utilities we rely on every day, Genrack

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Speaker 1: has become a key global software maker helping those utility

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Speaker 1: companies all over the world make the energy transition that's

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Speaker 1: so important to decarbonizing the economy.

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Speaker 3: If you think about energy generation, it's been pretty stable

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Speaker 3: the system for quite a long time, so typically have generators'

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Speaker 3: powerflows out to the customers. The peruvial person in the

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Speaker 3: van would go around and take a media reading. Their

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Speaker 3: world has been radically changed.

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Speaker 2: This week on the Business of Tech powered by two

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Speaker 2: Degrees Business, we talk to gen Track's new chief Technology

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Speaker 2: off and former Zero CTO Mark Reese on the role

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Speaker 2: software can play in managing the new energy environment.

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Speaker 1: This is an incredible sort of under the radar tech

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Speaker 1: company and getting Mark on board was a real coup

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Speaker 1: for gen track stick around for Ben's interview with Mark.

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Speaker 1: But first up, we want to unpick the juiciest recommendations

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Speaker 1: from the Commis Commission's inquiry into personal banking, which had

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Speaker 1: a lot to say about what we should be doing,

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Speaker 1: particularly in the open banking space.

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Speaker 2: Ben, Yes, that's correct. They came out with this report

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Speaker 2: after a fourteen month investigation. There's a three hundred and

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Speaker 2: eighty nine page report and at the end of that

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Speaker 2: they outlined fourteen recommendations for how you could overall improve

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Speaker 2: personal banking competition in New Zealand. A big part of

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Speaker 2: that is open banking. In fact, it's so big that

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Speaker 2: they basically had two major recommendations at the outset. The

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Speaker 2: first one was to capitalize Kiwi Bank. You might have

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Speaker 2: heard some conversation around that where the people are saying

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Speaker 2: Kiwibank needs more money so that it can come in

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Speaker 2: and be a disruptor. And then the other one and

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Speaker 2: the longer term, was open banking, and they reckon that

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Speaker 2: open banking in the long term could be the key

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Speaker 2: to creating a far more competitive and balanced personal banking

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Speaker 2: system in New Zealand. So the two key recommendations around

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Speaker 2: open banking were At first, they want it to be

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Speaker 2: quote fully operational by twenty twenty six. They want industry

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Speaker 2: and government to come together to guide it there. And

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Speaker 2: the second one is that they also want the government

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Speaker 2: to be an early adopter to be using open banking

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Speaker 2: for things like taxes, welfare and vehicle licensing, so to

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Speaker 2: improve confidence in it from consumers. And when your government

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Speaker 2: is a customer, then that starts to put a little

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Speaker 2: bit of revenue back into the systems that are providing

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Speaker 2: these services as well. So that's what the Commerce Commissioner

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Speaker 2: said about open banking in a nutshell this morning.

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Speaker 1: The recommendation and around Kiwibank. I absolutely love, you know,

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Speaker 1: the idea of getting businesses EWE investors to help capitalize

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Speaker 1: Kiwibank so it can actually become a fully fledged competitor

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Speaker 1: against the big Ossie owned banks operating in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely love that. But clearly from the recommendations and

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Speaker 1: the government has said this is Nikola Willis and Commerce

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Speaker 1: and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bailey have said they're going

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Speaker 1: to act on all fourteen recommendations. So they've wholeheartedly accepted

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Speaker 1: that we have I think, as Nikola Willis put it,

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Speaker 1: a cozy oligopoly dominating the banking sector. Something needs to

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Speaker 1: be done about it, so a stronger fifth competitor and

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Speaker 1: Kiwi Bank. There's a whole raft of other minor things

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Speaker 1: that they propose doing, but big focus on open banking,

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Speaker 1: and as you said, Ben, they want open banking to

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Speaker 1: be fully operational by June twenty twenty six. A bit

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Speaker 1: of a soft on this because they're already well on

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Speaker 1: the pathway to doing it, but just remind us what

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Speaker 1: are the key milestones they have to hit in order

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Speaker 1: to be fully operational by June twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a really great question, Peter, and it

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Speaker 2: brings up kind of one of the things that I

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Speaker 2: sent out a question to a whole bunch of people,

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Speaker 2: and one of them came back to me and they said, well,

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Speaker 2: that really depends on what fully operational means. That's one

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Speaker 2: of the things that the comments Quistion is going to

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Speaker 2: have to work on is a definition for what they

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Speaker 2: mean by fully operational. I guess if what they mean

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Speaker 2: is that we have or four big banks offering APIs,

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Speaker 2: plus Kiwibank and maybe some of the other smaller banks

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Speaker 2: and non bank deposit takers starting to have these APIs available.

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Speaker 2: That's a good start, and they're standardized and if you

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Speaker 2: can access one, you can pretty much access them all.

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Speaker 2: That we have a framework for accreditation so that if

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Speaker 2: you want to be a third party who can access

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Speaker 2: these APIs, you know exactly what you need to do

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Speaker 2: where you need to spend your money to meet the standards.

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Speaker 2: And then the banks or the API providers can't say no,

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Speaker 2: we don't want to work with you. And that there is,

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Speaker 2: if not a regulated commercial side of it, but at

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Speaker 2: least a kind of informal understanding of the commercial aspects

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Speaker 2: of this API access. What it's going to cost to

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Speaker 2: access these APIs in terms of whether there's a transaction

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Speaker 2: fee or you know that the bank's charge to the

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Speaker 2: third parties and the third parties charge to the merchants

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Speaker 2: or the consumers, or some settling of that side of

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Speaker 2: things I think is also going to be really important. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: if we have those with all the big banks and

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Speaker 2: a couple of smaller banks, and we have starts to

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Speaker 2: have a really rich group of FinTechs who are starting

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Speaker 2: to pick them up and actually offer services, and then

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Speaker 2: we have consumers who are using those services, and businesses

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Speaker 2: who are taking them on, like telcos are a really

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Speaker 2: good example of companies who would have the technological capability

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Speaker 2: and do a lot of billing so could really benefit

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Speaker 2: you know, government as well. They're talking about saying integrating it.

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Speaker 2: To me, that's what fully operational feels like.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's that seems achievable. You've got Payments in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand who are in the midst of all of

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Speaker 1: that sort of the API center that they have authority over,

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Speaker 1: so you've got a central organization that is tasked with

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Speaker 1: progressing this. You know, we've seen a lot of FinTechs

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Speaker 1: coming into this market, particularly around payments, so there is

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Speaker 1: appetite there. A lot of investors are seeing this as

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Speaker 1: at the right time. We're hearing the banks, for instance,

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Speaker 1: the CEO of ASB saying, oh, but in the UK,

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Speaker 1: you know, only eleven percent take up. After several years,

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Speaker 1: it's now something like thirteen percent, I believe ben But

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Speaker 1: in Australia, the banking industry we talked about this a

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Speaker 1: few weeks ago, really downplaying at three percent of ossie

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Speaker 1: consumers since twenty twenty one have shared their data, so

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Speaker 1: not looking good, but none of those markets are as

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Speaker 1: nearly as concentrated as New Zealand, so I think there

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Speaker 1: is a real opportunity here to blow the top off

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Speaker 1: are really constrain financial services market have more innovation going

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Speaker 1: in and you touched on it just before the government

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Speaker 1: is signaling we want to promote this and enable it

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Speaker 1: by making our government services interoperable with these third parties

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Speaker 1: who are sharing our banking data. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: how that would look, but in its most simplest form,

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Speaker 1: just a much broader range of payment options. When you

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Speaker 1: pay a parking fine or pay inland revenue, your taxes,

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Speaker 1: it could be from the dash app or whatever that

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Speaker 1: you're able to do that and authenticate it. I guess

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Speaker 1: that will have to tap into the digital trust and

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Speaker 1: identity framework that they've been building as well. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how that's going to operate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one person I spoke to did say that that

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Speaker 2: might be the sticking point, the digital identity part of it.

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Speaker 2: We probably will struggle to get there by mid twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty six, so that might have a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a longer roadmap. And on this similar bit different note,

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Speaker 2: you know that there is also the idea that open

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Speaker 2: banking is not the cure all and even the most

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Speaker 2: rah rah open banking FinTechs that I spoke to still say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: open banking is just one part of it. There are

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Speaker 2: a lot of other levers that do need to be

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Speaker 2: turned in order to improve competition. And one of the

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Speaker 2: recommendations was still that the RBNZ should reduce the barrier

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Speaker 2: to entry for new banks, and the Reserve Bank has

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Speaker 2: come out and said, yes, we started to look at

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Speaker 2: that a little bit for what we can do within

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Speaker 2: our framework.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and one thing on the Reserve Bank's radar, which

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Speaker 1: will take probably till the end of the decade to

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Speaker 1: get their teeth into seriously, is a central bank digital

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Speaker 1: currency and what the implications of that are for having

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Speaker 1: you know, the digital kiwi. And I speak to people

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Speaker 1: and they literally split fifty to fifty on this that

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Speaker 1: people who love crypto and all of that, they hate

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Speaker 1: the idea of a CBDC. Other people who just want

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Speaker 1: to have a convenient experience absolutely love the idea of that.

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Speaker 1: But it potentially means a lot more insight into money

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Speaker 1: flows around the economy, and some people don't like the

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Speaker 1: idea of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and that's fine, but like nobody's going

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Speaker 2: to come in and say, well, now we have the

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Speaker 2: central bank digital currency that you can't use other forms

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Speaker 2: of currency.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Like this, there is a bit of a conspiracy theory

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Speaker 2: going around that, you know, we're all fighting for a

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Speaker 2: cashless society and we want to control everything. And I mean, look,

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Speaker 2: there are many many means of control within our modern societies.

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Speaker 2: But nobody's trying to take away your cash.

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Speaker 1: So no, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So, yes, the Commics Commission's been doing a lot of

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Speaker 2: work on banking. Another area that it's been doing a

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Speaker 2: lot of work is electricity, and the reason for that

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Speaker 2: is because there's been a lot of discussion, especially in

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Speaker 2: recent weeks, of the energy crisis that the country is facing.

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Speaker 2: Power prices are spiking and manufactures are even being forced

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Speaker 2: out of business as a result.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the ty Point aluminium smelter, which uses a heck

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Speaker 1: of a lot of hydropower, this week agreed to reduce

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Speaker 1: its energy consumption even further to help alleviate the national

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Speaker 1: energy problem, which it has been caused by low water

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Speaker 1: levels in the lakes that feed our hydro plants.

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Speaker 2: We'll have to get better at predicting, managing, smoothing out

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Speaker 2: energy supply and demand as we move to a more

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Speaker 2: decentralized energy production with solar and wind increasingly in the mix.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Gen Track is a company that it's thirty five years old,

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Speaker 1: but has emerged in more recent years as a key

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Speaker 1: player in the software that allows companies to make that

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Speaker 1: happen and Ben, as I understand it, gen Track makes

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Speaker 1: software that's a little bit like enterprise resource planning software

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Speaker 1: ERP software, So you've got the likes of SAP and Oracle,

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Speaker 1: these big companies that produce software to allow you to

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Speaker 1: run large operations. Gen Track focuses specifically on utilities, so

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Speaker 1: energy companies, both generators and retailers, water companies, and it

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Speaker 1: was in the running or it was pitching for the

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Speaker 1: business for three Waters. It didn't get it. Some multinationals

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Speaker 1: from overseas did before all of that was pulled apart again,

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Speaker 1: but that's the sort of stuff they do, running water

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Speaker 1: plants that are filtering our water, making it safe, recycling wastewater,

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Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. They also do a little

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Speaker 1: bit around airports as well, baggage handling systems and all

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. So there are not very obvious

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Speaker 1: in our lives these sorts of utilities and gen Tracks

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Speaker 1: and involvement with them, But they have a lot of

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Speaker 1: business all over the world, don't they.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just doing fantastically well and they have shot

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Speaker 2: up recently, as I think you mentioned at the top

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Speaker 2: of the episode, and the reason for that was because

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Speaker 2: they were sitting on some older legacy technology that they

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Speaker 2: was a bit old fashioned, and they did a huge

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Speaker 2: amount of work to create a more modern version, which

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Speaker 2: I think they called gen TiO, which is a SAS

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Speaker 2: based model and more cloud based and dynamic and all

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Speaker 2: those good things that we like in the modern world.

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Speaker 2: And there was some unsureness in the market about how

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Speaker 2: that would be received, but the moment it kind of

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Speaker 2: was released and started being used by customers, it took

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Speaker 2: off and has been really successful. And that's what seen

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Speaker 2: gen Track shoot into like the NZNX fifty, is how

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Speaker 2: successful they were with their new system and the confidence

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Speaker 2: that gave the market in their future.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think their latest results reriven you up twenty percent,

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Speaker 1: profit down, but there was I think some one off

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Speaker 1: things there that affected that. But they're definitely growing fast

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Speaker 1: and to have someone like Mark Reese, the formers CTO

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Speaker 1: of Zero. I heard Mark speak at south By Southwest

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Speaker 1: in Sydney last year. Fantastic presentation about artificial intelligence, very

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Speaker 1: switched on guys. So to have him coman who was

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Speaker 1: an early employee of Zero to then take all that

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Speaker 1: expertise about making something quite complex like accounting really simple

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Speaker 1: doing that for utility software, that's a great win for them.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Mark as clearly a very smart guy, clearly very capable,

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Speaker 2: and clearly learned a huge amount in his decade at

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Speaker 2: Zero that he is taking onto gen Track. So as

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Speaker 2: well as talking about the electricity market and how that's

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Speaker 2: changing and how software management is supporting it, I also

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Speaker 2: just snuck in a few questions about what it was

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Speaker 2: like to be the CTO of a major multinational corporation.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely well. Here's Ben's interview with Mark Reese, CTO of Gentrack.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Mark, thank you so much for joining us on

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Speaker 2: the Business of Tech podcast. How are you good?

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Speaker 3: Thanks? Ben, that's great to be talking to you.

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Speaker 2: So you are the CTO, the chief technology officer of

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Speaker 2: gen Track, and you've been there for about seven months,

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Speaker 2: but seven months so before that, you were the CEO

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Speaker 2: a Zero for quite a while. I guess I'm curious,

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Speaker 2: just on a personal level, what's that change been like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been great. Actually, I was, as you said,

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Speaker 3: I was at zero for almost ten years, and so

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Speaker 3: I love that. It was a great journey. When I started,

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Speaker 3: they were about the about one hundred and fifty people

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Speaker 3: and by the end it was five thousand. So it

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Speaker 3: was an amazing journey. Actually. But you know, it's nice

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Speaker 3: to change, to go somewhere different, and to be involved

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Speaker 3: in kind of helping a company on its journey. So

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Speaker 3: I really really enjoyed the change. Actually, it's good. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I care about a lot about the space that Grack

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Speaker 3: operates it, so it's nice to be able to leverage

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Speaker 3: from that experience from scaling zero, growing the technology into

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Speaker 3: you know, energy sustainability, that kind of demain. So I'm

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Speaker 3: enjoying them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Very recently, Genrac went through a kind of major

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Speaker 2: upgrade I guess, like a shift from its legacy tech stack.

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Speaker 2: It's old way of doing things, and it created a

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Speaker 2: whole new way of doing things. And you came in,

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming kind of towards the end of that project.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's still a transition that's underway. So we

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Speaker 3: launched our new productsuite called G two, which is it's

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Speaker 3: a sort of allude to before. It's a combination of

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Speaker 3: the billing software that's been a core of gen Track,

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Speaker 3: so the deep knowledge about all the rules and energy

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Speaker 3: markets and water markets, with some really great contemporary platforms

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Speaker 3: like salesports, like AWS, like Snowflake. So it's the combination

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Speaker 3: of that software that being built up, taking it to

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Speaker 3: the cloud and combining it with those platforms. Key part

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Speaker 3: of the product is really the combination of salesforce and

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Speaker 3: the building engine, and it's helping our customers to respond

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Speaker 3: to what is the biggest change that's happened in the

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Speaker 3: energy markets in decades really where if you think about

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Speaker 3: energy generation, it's been pretty stable the system quite a

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Speaker 3: long time. So typically you have generators, the power flows

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Speaker 3: out to the customers and they consume it and then

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Speaker 3: the proverbial person in the band would go around and

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Speaker 3: take a meter reading, you know, once a month. That

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Speaker 3: world has been radically changed. So now you have dynamic generation,

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Speaker 3: so you have lots of renewables in the system, and

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Speaker 3: that changes some really important stuff about how the energy

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Speaker 3: system works. And then the other end, you get the usage,

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Speaker 3: you get solar panels and batteries at the edge, and

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Speaker 3: you get time of use charging. So you've got a

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Speaker 3: lot of dynamic behavior generation and kind of supply, and

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Speaker 3: then you've got a lot of dynamic behavior and demand

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Speaker 3: and the way people consume energy. And so that energy

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Speaker 3: retailers have got this problem of these two side of

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Speaker 3: the market being really dynamic, and they need to change

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Speaker 3: the software. They need to upgrade the software. They need

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Speaker 3: the best software that's around to be able to respond

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Speaker 3: to how you manage that change. A great example is

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Speaker 3: in South Australia. So in South Australia they have the

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Speaker 3: highest penetration of solar generation in the world. It's more

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Speaker 3: than seventy four percent of the energy comes from the sun,

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Speaker 3: and so that's great, it's fantastic, but it has a

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Speaker 3: consequence it's pretty challenging, which it means their energy market.

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Speaker 3: The prices are the most volatile in the world. So

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Speaker 3: the difference between at night when it's no solar and

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Speaker 3: the middle of the day when it's heaps the solar

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Speaker 3: is a massive difference in price, even to the point

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Speaker 3: that if you've got a solar panel and you've got

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Speaker 3: surplus energy and you want to sell it back to

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Speaker 3: the grid as you charge you for it. So it

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Speaker 3: costs you money to release energy into the grid because

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Speaker 3: the price is negative because there's so much energy. And

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Speaker 3: so these are the these are the things that these

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Speaker 3: are the reasons why we had to upgrade our software,

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Speaker 3: where we upgraded our software to help the energy retailers

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Speaker 3: deal with this really dynamic environment.

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Speaker 2: So, for example, in that situation where you've got the

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Speaker 2: solar energy flooding in during the day and then dearth

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Speaker 2: of energy in the evenings, what does genrac actually do

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Speaker 2: to help the generators manage that or the retailers manage that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so that the key to these retailers for examples,

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Speaker 3: is the business of forecasting how much energy is going

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Speaker 3: to be needed and often buying it from the market

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Speaker 3: or if they're a gin tailored like they're generating a well,

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Speaker 3: you know, managing what what assets are turning on and off.

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Speaker 3: So the ability to match that prediction of how much

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Speaker 3: energy they can customers that can consume against supply is

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Speaker 3: at it's harder data problem. So you know that forecasting

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Speaker 3: is what we think is going to happen, and using

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Speaker 3: those forecasts to match or supply and help them also

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Speaker 3: tailor products like the plans they put together that they

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Speaker 3: sell consumers that are make sure they're profitable. The balance

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Speaker 3: between you know, making sure the right amount of profit

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Speaker 3: but not to be too expensive. Solving that problem is

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Speaker 3: a really complex data problem, and that's where you know

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Speaker 3: things like Snowflake, which is a data platform coupled with

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Speaker 3: AI and Stuffer's really a big part of what we're

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Speaker 3: doing with the product.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the kind of gent tailors and the different

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Speaker 2: pressures that are going on at the moment with electricity,

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Speaker 2: and there's been a lot of conversation at the moment

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Speaker 2: in the last kind of week or two and in

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Speaker 2: some spheres even longer than that about you know, the

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Speaker 2: difficulty of getting good, green, cheap energy in New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: What can a platform like Gendrax platform do to help

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Speaker 2: with those pressures, like in terms of feeding back maybe

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Speaker 2: information and two generators so that they know what they're doing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of things that at a great

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Speaker 3: example of a practical thing that we can do is

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Speaker 3: actually as a company, we've invested in Australia, which I

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Speaker 3: am lucky enough to be on the board for which

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Speaker 3: GINI has a really close partnership. As I said, we

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Speaker 3: invest in court and very Electric and this is a

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Speaker 3: great example of coming to good economics that's financially good

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Speaker 3: for the customer but also great for the environment. So

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Speaker 3: what they do then their model is they are assess service,

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Speaker 3: so you pay a fixed fee per month and then

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Speaker 3: they pass on direct wholesale charges to you, so you

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Speaker 3: just get the price in the market, so it flutch

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Speaker 3: weighs up and down through the day. And what they're

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Speaker 3: built software is that basically we use your battery in

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Speaker 3: your house or in the future, your eb battery, and

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Speaker 3: what it does is it knows what you consume and

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Speaker 3: knows what the price of energy is going to be.

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Speaker 3: So it will start charging your battery in your house

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Speaker 3: in the middle of the day when the energy is

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Speaker 3: really really cheap, and then it will release the energy

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Speaker 3: at night when there's when it's more expensive. And so

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Speaker 3: that helps them helps the whole energy system move some

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Speaker 3: more renewable energy. It also means that if you're a

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Speaker 3: consumer some on everage stick to customers pay nothing pall right,

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Speaker 3: so that because they because there's ARPO charge in the market,

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Speaker 3: So there it's both economically advantageous for the concernments used,

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Speaker 3: but also driving the more renewable adoption as well. So

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Speaker 3: that's one a great example.

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Speaker 2: And I imagine there would be different levels of pressure

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Speaker 2: in different markets around the kind of you know, going clean,

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Speaker 2: going going green, looking at emissions and surfacing that information.

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Speaker 2: In New Zealand recently we had the reporting standards changed

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Speaker 2: last year around emissions reporting, and so gen trac must

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Speaker 2: be a big part of that movement as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, it's there's a lot of movement around that.

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Speaker 3: It's really hardening to see how much focused there it's

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Speaker 3: around the world on that. And they can to get

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Speaker 3: to min zero by twenty fifteen. So that's something we

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Speaker 3: really are from believe in and it's one of the

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Speaker 3: reasons why lots of people come to work at gintrack

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Speaker 3: is that they have they care about helping facilitate that.

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Speaker 3: And I think the one thing we one think we

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Speaker 3: talk to them a lot about is quite often people

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Speaker 3: there's there will be people that are building solar farms

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Speaker 3: or you know, working on Teaseler's where their impact is direct, right,

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Speaker 3: you're right at the edg of it. And then there's

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Speaker 3: kind of infrastructure that supports the new world, like software

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Speaker 3: to deal with this dynamic price volatility that comes from

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Speaker 3: renewable So a lot of the work we do is

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Speaker 3: that kind of enabling work that supports the models of

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Speaker 3: the future, which is really critically important sometimes, but it

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Speaker 3: involves a bit more storytelling to connect to what you're

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Speaker 3: doing to that if that makes it. But it's you

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Speaker 3: definitely can see the lineup sight. It's not leading the

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Speaker 3: way on it. It's more, you know, consumer preference is

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Speaker 3: what people buy from their retilers, what's supply is available,

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Speaker 3: what infrastructure we vest on. Those are the bigger things.

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Speaker 3: But if you're going to operate in this world, you

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Speaker 3: have to do it profitably and be able to manage

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Speaker 3: this kind of complexity. It's key to doing that. I

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Speaker 3: don't think it's the thing that's driving it, but definitely

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Speaker 3: it's a really important aspect of managing it efficiently and

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Speaker 3: ensuring that at Scarlet City out's feasible.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of the I guess the experience later like saying,

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Speaker 2: you know that this is going to be really tough,

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Speaker 2: but here's a way that you can do it, and

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Speaker 2: it's not going to be you know, one hundred people

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Speaker 2: sitting there with spreadsheets trying to guess at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's just and it's one aspect of what

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Speaker 3: the new the new product offering we have. The other

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Speaker 3: thing is, you know, we all know that we live

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Speaker 3: in this kind of competitive experience economy where, you know,

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Speaker 3: because everything's available on the Internet, the bar in terms

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Speaker 3: of user experience is set by the best companies in

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Speaker 3: the world. So when you're using this uber or shopify,

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Speaker 3: all those stop with that experience that you have raises

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Speaker 3: the expectation for everyone. So when you go and use

436
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 3: bank or the energy retailer, you expect the kind of

437
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 3: same level of service. And it's amazing how quickly things

438
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 3: can look dated if they're not kept up at that levels.

439
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: Is that user experience? But is that kind of what's

440
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 2: been key to Gen tracks massive success with its latest

441
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: iteration with Gen two. Do you think that that's what

442
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: it kind of you can point to and say, this

443
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 2: is why we're winning.

444
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 3: I think it's the combination of the set of things,

445
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 3: like the combination of like a product that meets the

446
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 3: needs of this changing market for these energy retailers. So

447
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 3: it's data intelligence that will be available, you know, with

448
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: more effective pricing and ensuring profitability. It's the it's the

449
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: user experience options that come, you know, in the internal

450
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 3: and external comes, things like the sales sports combined with

451
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: detailed experience and how to deal with these complex regulated

452
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 3: energy and water environments. A lot of these energy water

453
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 3: providers around the world of sad on software for a

454
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: long time because and they could, they could afford to

455
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 3: be there because the market was quite static. This change

456
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 3: means that they need to respond and there's more innovation

457
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 3: because people can take advantage of new new models and so,

458
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 3: which means they really have to think about the score

459
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 3: software and how they change it if they're going to

460
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 3: take advantage. But I think the combination of those things

461
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 3: is why the product has resonated with the market and

462
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 3: why we're seeing so so much momentum.

463
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: When you're looking ahead the next five kind of years,

464
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: you've mentioned, you know, the AI applications in terms of

465
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: load shifting and battery usage and charging and discharge and

466
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 2: all those kinds of things, Like how are you planning

467
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: gen track to stay on top of like what are

468
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 2: the changes that you see coming and how are you

469
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: planning to stay on top of those.

470
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's a whole I mean the data

471
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 3: data aspects of it is clearly one of the biggest

472
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 3: things that's going to change over the next that's having

473
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 3: across technology, and I think companies will kind of differentiate

474
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 3: themselves about the way the way they do that, I

475
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 3: think sometimes and you know, there's a lot of focus

476
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 3: on GENERA today. That's great. I think that's just one

477
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 3: sleather of all the possibilities. But AI, I think the

478
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 3: thing that's really important with that is I think some

479
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 3: people can plau into the trap of taking that as

480
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 3: a solution looking for a problem. To the heart of

481
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: using those technology as well as to start with understanding

482
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 3: your customers and the problems they face and looking at

483
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 3: solutions to meet their needs, not saying I've got AI

484
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 3: need to go hunt around for some problem. And when

485
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: I was at Zero, we did one project was really

486
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 3: informed me on that, which is we had this we're

487
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 3: trying to some wify the user in the basis in

488
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 3: the product. So it wasn't so accounting specific because lots

489
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 3: of Zero's customers are plumbers and builders and stuff, and

490
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 3: they don't really have a strong interest in accounting and

491
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 3: so we were trying to take some of the accounting

492
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 3: out of it by automation. One of the things we're

493
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 3: trying to do is automatically select the account code for

494
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 3: an invoice, and we've got a big, really interesting AI

495
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 3: model for that. And then compared it with defaulting to

496
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: the you know, defaulting to what the user had chosen

497
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 3: last time, and it's it's the just the faulding into

498
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 3: what their previously was more accurate. Clearly, it's much simpler

499
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 3: and and you know, far less competition competationally expensive. So

500
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: I think you have to be really real about saying,

501
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 3: you know, what's the problem. I'm not trying to solve

502
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: what's the simplest way I can solve that, not take

503
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 3: that AI and and search for it. Yeah, So I

504
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 3: think the key the key to that is just great

505
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: product teams and a lot a lot of the harder

506
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: that is out of these learning these products is just

507
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: really good team of people who understand the customers, who

508
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 3: have a good mentality about how to build products that

509
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 3: you have ability to change in this way, there's it's

510
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 3: AI anything else. That's really the core of these companies.

511
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: I think as the kind of renewable side of things

512
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,719
Speaker 2: continues to grow, particularly solar and wind, which are very

513
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: kind of dependent on atmospheric conditions at the time. Things

514
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: are going to get more dynamic over time. Is there

515
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: going to be a point where that's just not mitigatable? Like,

516
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: do you think that just that there will be We're

517
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: trending towards a place where we're just going to have

518
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,959
Speaker 2: to put up with some inconsistency and electricity supply if

519
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: we want to get away from fossil fuels, or do

520
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: you think that software and batteries and other tools can

521
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: actually help us to maintain No.

522
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: I think I think they definitely can, and I think

523
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 3: there's a lot like it's not it's not in an

524
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 3: area that we we directly get involved with our software,

525
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: but there's lots of innovation around the world with differency,

526
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 3: different combinations of generation, and different technologies to help manage that.

527
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: I mean New Zealand's an example right where the combination

528
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 3: of wind or solar and hydro is theoretically a good

529
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: combination because the hydro can be effectively used as a battery.

530
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: You can control how much water you store and use

531
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 3: that to even out the find and variability in the

532
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 3: solar and the wind. So that's that's combination of things

533
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 3: around the world. I know there is some of the

534
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 3: markets and energy in Europe there's quite open, so that

535
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: energy can flow back and forward between markets which have

536
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: different mixes of generation, so that can damp it out

537
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: the volatility as well. I think there's a pretty good

538
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: understanding of the problem and a lot of a lot

539
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 3: of research and plannet that can go into that intermanaging that.

540
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 3: So I don't think it's I mean, I think it

541
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: is a challenge with the volatility, but it seems like

542
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 3: it's a it's a definitely insolveable.

543
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: One if you're trying to kind of cut global emissions, right, Like,

544
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: there's the management and there's the offsetting, and then there's

545
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: the product of of renewables, and obviously production of renewables

546
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: is one of the key things. But is there are

547
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: the innovations within gen track that are actually you can

548
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: see making real differences in the level of emissions that

549
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: you are actually being produced.

550
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 3: Well, one that's quite straightforward but actually has quite a

551
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 3: big impact is prime of use charging. So you think

552
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: about what often what happens is because the pattern of

553
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: consumption often has a big spike in the evening when

554
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: everyone comes home and they do the dishes or dishwashers

555
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 3: on or wash their clothes to lights on et centralize

556
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: that in markets like New zeal And Australia, you know,

557
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 3: there's a big spike in consumption and often that's the

558
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: time when the coll file generation it's too long. So

559
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 3: you see, that's where you see lots of our customers

560
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 3: trying to innovate and offer incentives for customers to move

561
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 3: consumption away from those pig yards. So that's you know,

562
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 3: they offer free power, you know power plans and then

563
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 3: my sons, my son's at university Toned and I think

564
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 3: his whole life revolves around the free power, like after

565
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 3: night they do what they're washing. But like those kind

566
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 3: of schemes where they can just credit and sea tip

567
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: for consumers to shift consumption out of the peak hours

568
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: which are the dirtiest, to a lower when there's kind

569
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 3: of more renewable generation. Consumption House is something we can

570
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: enable without a building software which has a really big

571
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 3: impact on the environment, which is which is awesome.

572
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: What has it been like moving from zero to gener track?

573
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: I mean, can you give us a little bit of

574
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 2: insight into what that's been like for you. What that

575
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: what it's like being a technology executive in one of

576
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: these big companies that's trying to stay relevant, trying to

577
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: understand new trends and not be disrupted.

578
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 3: Basically one of the big things. One of the reasons

579
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: I I was keen on coming to gen Track is

580
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: there's a real ambition about the company, like a real

581
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 3: a real almost expectation to grow and to get bigger.

582
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 3: That there's this opportunity that we have this great product

583
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 3: for it and then we can make a real difference

584
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: with it, which which is what it felt like during

585
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: the time I was at Zero as well, Like we

586
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: have this great product, customers really love it, it's growing,

587
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: and you can really have an impact, which is the

588
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: best thing when you're building software. Software teams just want

589
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 3: to build software the customers use. That's the and so

590
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 3: that that's what attracks me to gen Track. It's kind

591
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: of earlier in its journey. You know, it's Zero is

592
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 3: an amazing success, an amazing company. Gin Track's kind of earlier,

593
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 3: and it's journey on that pathway and then there's a

594
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: lot of commonality, a lot of the challenges of these

595
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 3: companies are how you decide what to do, Like there's

596
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 3: always so many things to do, like so many great

597
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 3: things to do. How do you prode shows that how

598
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: you're thoughtful about what you decide to do, how you

599
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: as al as CTOs and what's the wrong name, right,

600
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: because most of your job is people focus, Like the

601
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: key is really like how you organize the product leaders

602
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 3: and the engineers and to teams that get the most

603
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 3: out of them, that allow them to build great software.

604
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 3: How to get out of your way, Like a lot

605
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: of making these big companies effective is to make them

606
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 3: like when they were small, you know, like you know

607
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: small startup teams which can drive kind of quickly. You

608
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: want to try and do that in a bigger companies.

609
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 3: A lot of zero and gin tracks the same as

610
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: like making one plus one equal two when you're hire

611
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: a person like that, a new person adds to that,

612
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: how you align them and motivate them. That's that's really

613
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: common and common between the how you make sure the

614
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: tip supports you and does slow you down as you

615
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 3: get bigger. But then the physics of the companies are different, right,

616
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: Like zero sells to lots of small customers. I think

617
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 3: it's I don't actually know the numbers, but it's over

618
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 3: four millions small customers around the world. And so you

619
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 3: never actually do something for one customer. You always do

620
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 3: them for segments or markets or groups of customers where juchecks,

621
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 3: you know, the market's much smaller. These are much smaller,

622
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 3: larger customers. There's there's probably more like to be in

623
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 3: one hundred to two hundred you know, ranger customs rather

624
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: than the millions, and so each customer has a larger voice,

625
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 3: and so how do you build software that meets their

626
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 3: needs and their expectations without creating loss and loss of

627
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 3: speedy and variation. So there's a This is a quite

628
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 3: quite different in that way. It's more almost like a

629
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 3: consumer focus company. This is a gujex very much an

630
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 3: enterprise sales companies. So there's kind of differences, but the

631
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: principles of doing it well are quite similar, like understand

632
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: your customers, connecting with them, focusing on trying and testing

633
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: and learning what works for them, making sure you look

634
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 3: after the technology because you know, take debt. You know,

635
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 3: the old technology that's not kept up to date can

636
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 3: become a real impediment if you don't focus on that

637
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 3: all those things are really similar.

638
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: You talked about this perfectly understandable desire to be fast

639
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 2: and be agile and move like a startup as a

640
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 2: big company, and we saw a case where that was

641
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: had a less than desirable effect with CrowdStrike not long ago.

642
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 2: How do you maintain those checks and balances so that

643
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: you're not going to push out an update that will,

644
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 2: you know, potentially break billing for an entire enterprise level company.

645
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. It's a really it's a really key challenge.

646
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 3: Like you've got a and it becomes more and more

647
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: important as you get bigger, right, because you have a

648
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 3: bigger impact, Like you can impact billing for a whole

649
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 3: injury billing for a whole company, or you know, zero

650
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 3: was like payroll for thirty percent of Australia. So that fails.

651
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 3: And so how do you design the systems to make

652
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: sure that you protect the engineers because you want them

653
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 3: to thrive things. So there's a lot of a lot

654
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 3: of structure into almost building bubbles around the engineers to

655
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 3: protect them so that if they make a mistake, the

656
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 3: failure is limited. So like say it says at zero,

657
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 3: when we're rolling out software, we have a structured process

658
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 3: to roll it out incrementally with expanding blast radius. So

659
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 3: you say, if you were deploying a change for a

660
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 3: new Zealand payroll, you'd roll it out for one hundred

661
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 3: customers first and then validate how the experience was, and

662
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 3: then expand it to know one thousand, and then so

663
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 3: on and so forth. With gin track, it's least a

664
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 3: live deployment of software, but because it's enterprise proper, it's

665
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 3: more deploying it to a safer place where the validation

666
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: can occur independently, and then bundling up that change and

667
00:36:54,800 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 3: allowing customer opted to deploy it on some timeframe, bringing

668
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 3: them into tested or partnering with them to experiment on

669
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 3: new things they just slightly. You have to work a

670
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: bit harder in a way with each BRW software to

671
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,919
Speaker 3: get the customer feedback than you can with a SAS

672
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 3: style product, but it's still possible, and it's a lot

673
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 3: of that mindset. Really.

674
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of kind of grandiose discussion

675
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: at a macro level from people who say, you know,

676
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: once we have these more advanced AI models that are

677
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: nearing the you know, general intelligence, not necessarily hitting it,

678
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 2: but getting closer to it that we'll be able to

679
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: take a lot of this data from the likes of

680
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: gen Track that are seeing you know, huge amount of

681
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 2: energy consumption usage across the world and use that to

682
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 2: actually provide insights into how we structure our infrastructure and

683
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: feedback into to decision making at a at a structural level.

684
00:37:58,480 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: Is that rubbish?

685
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 3: I don't think it is. I think I mean, I

686
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 3: think it's like, if you already look at the stuff

687
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: that's been the way that some of these models been

688
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 3: used to help with drug discovery, protein folding, all that

689
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 3: kind of stuff, we have their actually starting to yield

690
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 3: novel cures to novel drugs for treating disorders. That's a

691
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 3: super complex domain, right, Like it's with a lot of

692
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: information that's demonstrably accelerating our progress scient typically, and so

693
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 3: I don't think this domain is there's any reason to

694
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: think that there won't be that type of progress at

695
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 3: some time. I think that's that that's really likely. I mean,

696
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 3: I think there's I mean, this is a whole other conversation,

697
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 3: but there's a whole it's a whole lot of really

698
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: interesting kind of questions about that and how we use it.

699
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 3: I really love this kind of thing that EU did

700
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 3: and there it's not relating to AI, but it's before

701
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: AI was they instituted this right to be forgotten as

702
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 3: part of And so I think a lot of what

703
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 3: we'll have to think about is how we add humanity

704
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 3: back into these models. Like it's like like also, you know,

705
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 3: I know there's using AI to make decisions about parole

706
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 3: in some of the states in the US and the UK,

707
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 3: and then now the basic human right, the right to

708
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 3: explanation about WHIA decision was made. I think a lot

709
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 3: of the interesting that things will happen when we use

710
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: these models to do more for us, make decisions for us.

711
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: How we almost kind of tailor in the human expectation

712
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 3: on some of these responses will be really interesting. But

713
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 3: I don't see there's any reason why we can't use

714
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 3: it to help optimize energy markets, I think, and solve

715
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 3: problems that we can't that we can't solve. I think

716
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 3: there's huge power and opportunity of that.

717
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting because you've got so many I mean,

718
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: like the energy market in twenty twenty four maybe the

719
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 2: most fractious ever in terms of how consumers access and

720
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: pay for their energy. Right Like you said, your son

721
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 2: after nine pm everything geared around there, and you've got

722
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: ev charging plans, and you've got three hours of power,

723
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: and you got all of these different ways of doing things.

724
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 2: Do you think that as we start to get better

725
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: understanding of, you know, how we get that balance of

726
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 2: profitability competitiveness, that that will start to consolidate a little

727
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 2: bit more or is it going to go the other way?

728
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: Is it going to be hyper specific creating plans specifically

729
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 2: for people.

730
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 3: I think that world of like a per use a

731
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 3: consumption profile and sort of pricing based on that. I

732
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 3: think that's a really interesting area that's affecting what happens

733
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 3: with some businesses, right Like there's a there's kind of

734
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 3: customer spoke quotes for them based on their consumption profile.

735
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 3: If they have a large number of sites, they can

736
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 3: be that you mentioned a world where you have your

737
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 3: detailed consumption data and you can you can summit it

738
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 3: as part of your application. You know, when you're choosing

739
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 3: a provider and they can give you a quote tailored

740
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 3: on exactly how much you use in the way you

741
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 3: use it, and you're even your you know, your solar

742
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 3: panels and that angle they are to the sun and

743
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 3: with it's a trio for them, and so I can't

744
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: that that seems like a distinct possibility. And then the yeah,

745
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 3: definitely cool.

746
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: I thank you very much for your time, Mark, I

747
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: really appreciate it. It was nice to see you again,

748
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 2: and you know, all the best for the rest of

749
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 2: your time at gen Track and really looking forward to

750
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: seeing how you guys go.

751
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Great, it's great talking to me to thank you.

752
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: So, I think that the big opportunity which gen Track

753
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: are obviously tapping into now is you've got all these

754
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 1: utility companies that have been a bit behind the ball.

755
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: Compared to Talco's retailers other sorts of businesses that have

756
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: sort of been forced to upgrade their systems over the

757
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: last decade, the sort of the utility companies are a

758
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: little bit further behind. And there's all these traditional giants

759
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: like the SAPs who don't specifically serve that market. They

760
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: don't tailor their products. They basically say, buy SAP. And

761
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: a lot of the functionality is there for a electricity

762
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: company or a water company, where gen Track is saying,

763
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: we're building this stuff from the ground up for utilities

764
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: you're facing massive change, and if you don't adapt your

765
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: systems to manage things like distributed energy generation and time

766
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: if use payments, which are increasingly going to be part

767
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: of the makeup as more renewables come online, you're going

768
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: to be inefficient and you're not going to be as competitive.

769
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: So you need to invest in these And it seems

770
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: like the industry is hearing that call to arms and

771
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,879
Speaker 1: is upgrading. That's why we're seeing GEN track with really

772
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 1: strong revenue growth.

773
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's interesting as well marks comments

774
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: around increasing personalization of power, consumptual power billing and what

775
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: that means for utilities companies like you said, you know,

776
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 2: they've got to try and keep up and if people

777
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: are starting to expect things like I mean, even as

778
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 2: simple as being allowed to be billed every fortnight based

779
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 2: on your consumption rather than every month. Right, that seems

780
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: like it should have happened twenty years ago, but it's

781
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: only just really happening in New Zealand with a few

782
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 2: selected companies. So that level of personalization, and not just

783
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 2: in billing, but in terms of how and when to

784
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 2: build what for different kinds of power at what time

785
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: Like that that's going to become only going to get

786
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 2: more complicated with time, and.

787
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: The likes of Mercury and Genesis I think are implementing

788
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: those products from gen Tracks, so we will start to

789
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: see that flexibility come into electricity. But I guess the

790
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: big issue in New Zealand we have at the moment

791
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: is through the makeup of our electricity market, through bad planning,

792
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: probably we have these sort of crises emerging, and there's

793
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: things like the you know, the slow down and supply

794
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: of gas as well, which has ramifications for the wider

795
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: energy market. So Gentrek they can do all the whiz

796
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: bank stuff they can to help companies manage what resources

797
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: are there, balance out supply and demand, but if we've

798
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: made really bad decisions as a country on the supply side,

799
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: there's not much they can do about it.

800
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. In one of my colleagues, he referred to the

801
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 2: situation that we're in as an obvious system failure, which

802
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 2: I thought was a really concise way to put it. So, yeah,

803
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: you're absolutely right. Like and the likes of gen Track,

804
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 2: I think Mark was he made it kind of clear

805
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: like we're here as the facilitators, we had to make

806
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: the transition to this new way as easy as we can,

807
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, there still needs

808
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 2: to be a huge focus on actually getting it built,

809
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 2: getting it out there. And you know, hopefully if the

810
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 2: people who create these systems are not afraid of how

811
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: it's going to interrupt their systems on the back end,

812
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: that will reduce some friction. He talked about it as

813
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,439
Speaker 2: being quite removed from the direct impact, but it's part

814
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 2: of a much bigger trend in conversation about where we're

815
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: added globally and as a country in terms of our

816
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 2: energy consumption.

817
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: Oh well, the amount of renewables that need to come

818
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: online internationally so that countries can meet their twenty fifty

819
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: net zero goals is massive. So then if you try

820
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: and implement all of these new sources of generation into

821
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: an already aged and decrepit ERP system, you're going to

822
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,399
Speaker 1: run into trouble. So that's the real opportunity I think

823
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: for GENRAK, and it will be bigger obviously in other

824
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 1: countries America and Europe in particular, where there are every

825
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: utility company is having to go on this journey and

826
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: they're deploying more solar and winds, and you know that

827
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: has implications for infrastructure for transmission, which we've underinvested in

828
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: in most countries. We're all fixated on new generation, but

829
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: you've actually got to get this additional power from A

830
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: to B. So a lot of workers is going to

831
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 1: have to happen there. But also that all the software

832
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: underpinning all of this, and particularly when you have microgeneration

833
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: from US as citizens as the price of photovoltaics drops,

834
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: we can put these on our roof and then feed

835
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: that into the grid and even from our EV batteries.

836
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: The level of complexity and managing all of that and

837
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: making sure everyone has visibility into it and is build

838
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: appropriately for it, that is a whole new level of

839
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: complexity that utilities are not used to. So gen Track

840
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: has the opportunity to be a leader in that space.

841
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. You know, we've got other new zeal companies

842
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 2: like ike GPS is doing really well with their utility

843
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 2: pole assessment software in the US. They're being picked up

844
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 2: as like you said that that transmission side of things

845
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: needs to be upgraded and monitored and kept kept modern

846
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 2: and working. As these new forms of electricity generation, you

847
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 2: know you're no longer is it just going to be

848
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: all centralized in one big furnace. You know of wind

849
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 2: farms over here and solar farms over here.

850
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's another one ground line and New Zealand

851
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: company they have a product called Thor which is about

852
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: pole testing. So it's funny that New Zealand has developed

853
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: a bit a niche expertise in the technology maintaining some

854
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,760
Speaker 1: of these electricity networks.

855
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: It's great to see such a huge New Zealand success

856
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: story and in an area that is only going to

857
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 2: be more important as time goes on. And so yeah,

858
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 2: really grateful that Mark was able to take some time

859
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: for his undoubtedly very busy schedulty to have a chat

860
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 2: with me. There. That's it for this week's episode, and

861
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: once again thanks to Mark for coming on the show,

862
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: and thank you all for listening.

863
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Business of Tech is everywhere you get your

864
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: podcasts from, including iHeartRadio, where you can stream every episode.

865
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: Show notes are in the Tech section on the Business

866
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: Desk website.

867
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 2: You can get in touch with feedback, ideas, topics and

868
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 2: guests suggestions. Email me Ben at Business Desk dot co

869
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: dot NZAD. We'll find both of us on LinkedIn and x.

870
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: Another dose of the Business of tech coming your way

871
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: next Thursday.

872
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 3: Catch you then