WEBVTT - Lance Burdett: Police do make people feel safe

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk

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<v Speaker 1>said be Green's.

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<v Speaker 2>MP Tamotha Paul came under fire this week. You'd be

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<v Speaker 2>hard pushed pushed to have missed that story after comments

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<v Speaker 2>about beat patrol police. She said a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>feel less safe with the increase of police on the

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<v Speaker 2>beat and claimed that these officers had even been throwing

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<v Speaker 2>away the belongings of homeless people. She made some other

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<v Speaker 2>strange ones about people being locked in prison for twelve

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<v Speaker 2>dollars thefts and things like that, and she was in

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<v Speaker 2>a discussion about what steps could be taken to achieve

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<v Speaker 2>radical police abolition and alternatives to the police as an organization. Wow, anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>Lance Burdette, he's a former police negotiator and he's with

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<v Speaker 2>me now. Lance, Good afternoon.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi Sam here, you're going good.

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<v Speaker 2>What was your reaction to all of this?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was a little bit set me down, actually,

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<v Speaker 3>to be honest, have you I guess if you had

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<v Speaker 3>to take out the politics of it all, and maybe

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<v Speaker 3>that's it, but everybody has said different opinion about police

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<v Speaker 3>and government departments, and it depends on our perception and

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<v Speaker 3>our perspective. So if we want to remove the perception

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<v Speaker 3>part of it. We use research, right, so what's the

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<v Speaker 3>reality of the situation, And the reality of the situation

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<v Speaker 3>is around sixty nine percent of people view police back

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<v Speaker 3>on the beat as making them feel safe and secure.

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<v Speaker 3>But that's it, and we know also that in the

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<v Speaker 3>research that it has around it between three weeks and

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<v Speaker 3>three months to have a positive impact and it reduces crime,

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<v Speaker 3>and then we must bring in other things like different

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<v Speaker 3>ways of patrolling, etc. So that's that part of it.

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<v Speaker 3>But perspective is more difficult to change. We all see

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<v Speaker 3>things differently and it depends on our experiences, our background,

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<v Speaker 3>our social viewpoint, media, and a whole range of things

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<v Speaker 3>that we've interacted with. And if we've had a bad

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<v Speaker 3>interaction with an organization or heard some bad feedback, then

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<v Speaker 3>our perspective will be changed negatively, and so that's harder

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<v Speaker 3>to change. We have to keep bringing back reality.

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<v Speaker 2>Is in a case of there still being a stigma

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<v Speaker 2>around the presence of police in some communities or is

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<v Speaker 2>it more individual?

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's probably the case in this one. Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 3>there's some communities that I go into and do working

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<v Speaker 3>and there's quite a negative perception still of police and

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<v Speaker 3>it depends on what's happened. There are some historical things

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<v Speaker 3>that have happened to some communities, and when it's broadcast

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<v Speaker 3>what more widely, that does affect some parts of the

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<v Speaker 3>population more than others.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that her views are kind of I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I heard Chloe Swarbrick saying she's just reflecting views of

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<v Speaker 2>some constituents, which she could use to defend all sorts

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<v Speaker 2>of views. But do you think that it's is she

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<v Speaker 2>sort of is it almost like an out of date

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<v Speaker 2>view of the police, like police who might look back

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<v Speaker 2>to the days of the Red Squad and during the

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<v Speaker 2>Springbok two and still be hanging on to that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of stigma.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Look, I think we do need to have some pushback

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<v Speaker 3>on anything we do. If we don't have a leveler

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<v Speaker 3>in all of our roles, I mean, you'd be the same.

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<v Speaker 3>Look at your job, for example, if you don't get

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<v Speaker 3>some negative feedback which you reflect on and you think, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>I might just moderate what I said there. That's how

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<v Speaker 3>we keep things on a level plan Ayngfield. So, but

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<v Speaker 3>probably not to the extreme that I've just seen. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>police thing's never been outdated. I don't know if any

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<v Speaker 3>other way of keeping the population safe and secure. We

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<v Speaker 3>need to have an organization that's able to do that.

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<v Speaker 3>And we keep that organization and check by having a

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<v Speaker 3>number of functions through the media, through the Independent Police

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<v Speaker 3>Conduct Authority, and a number of other and in fact themselves.

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<v Speaker 3>I actually investigated police for a long time. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you what, no stones left unto them when

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<v Speaker 3>that happens, because we all want to see a good

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<v Speaker 3>police and part of if you're part of that organization,

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<v Speaker 3>in fact, you have a higher bar. Well I did.

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<v Speaker 3>Any way, when we're looking at what went wrong?

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<v Speaker 2>Does I mean there are some people who say that

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<v Speaker 2>people like some of the ball don't belong in parliament,

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<v Speaker 2>But that's up to the voters, of course. But do

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<v Speaker 2>you think in a way that it's actually not a

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<v Speaker 2>bad thing to have people sort of challenging these things,

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<v Speaker 2>no matter how potty or lalla they sound.

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<v Speaker 3>It's absolutely one hundred percent. I mean, I think it

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<v Speaker 3>was Steve Job said diamonds come from rubbing to rocks together,

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<v Speaker 3>and so we do need to have somebody to have

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<v Speaker 3>a contrary view and that keeps us all in check.

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<v Speaker 3>But also out of that conversation, a look at the

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<v Speaker 3>conversation that's happened since that comment was said. We're getting

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<v Speaker 3>some great viewpoints of some different ways of things things

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<v Speaker 3>and that's how we stay modernized. I guess that's how

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<v Speaker 3>we develop as a society.

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<v Speaker 2>Just what I mean. Look, it seems her comments around

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<v Speaker 2>police abolition and all that sort of stuff to me

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<v Speaker 2>just barking mad. Are there any other models around New

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<v Speaker 2>Zealand around the world where there's something that isn't a

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<v Speaker 2>police force that sort of works, because is it just

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<v Speaker 2>a you know, something.

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<v Speaker 3>It's called military.

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<v Speaker 2>See, I don't think.

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<v Speaker 3>That that's the only one that I've seen that actually

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<v Speaker 3>works or you know, and that's either from dictatorships, and

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<v Speaker 3>we don't want to have that. So in a democracy

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<v Speaker 3>there is there is I have not seen. There has

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<v Speaker 3>to be policed, right, So we've seen all these utopian

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<v Speaker 3>societies where people there is no police and we all

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<v Speaker 3>live in harmony. But at some point when somebody steps wrong,

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<v Speaker 3>there has to be a committee. You've gone before, so

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<v Speaker 3>it just doesn't work.

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<v Speaker 2>Just the people talk about the Marray Wardens and the

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<v Speaker 2>role that they play in other community organizations. Can you

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<v Speaker 2>just give a description of I don't mean, what's wrong

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<v Speaker 2>with that idea, but the limits of that because I

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<v Speaker 2>think that would be to try and place the role

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<v Speaker 2>of beat police with mary Warden's would be putting a

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<v Speaker 2>hell of a lot on mary Wardens, wouldn't it, Because

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<v Speaker 2>they can ran, they can be a range of ages

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<v Speaker 2>and all sorts of physical competencies as well, despite the

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<v Speaker 2>fact they might be great people.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've seen it work, and I've seen it work

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<v Speaker 3>very very successfully, and it works in other countries. We've

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<v Speaker 3>got quite a in New Zealand. We should be very

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<v Speaker 3>proud with having out mary Wardens because they have the

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<v Speaker 3>ability and even look the cool of the older ones

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<v Speaker 3>that get in there and with these young people and

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<v Speaker 3>they you know, are able to sort of speak since

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<v Speaker 3>because they've been around and they have the respect. So

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<v Speaker 3>and we had it when I was first on the beat,

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<v Speaker 3>and that was a long time ago to thirty years ago.

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<v Speaker 3>We would have that we would meet up with the

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<v Speaker 3>Marley Wardens on a night shift and we'd work from

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<v Speaker 3>the same office as us and we'd all go out

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, and they were able to get into

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<v Speaker 3>into homes and into places that police would not ever get.

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<v Speaker 3>So having those sorts of things and having and there's

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<v Speaker 3>a range of then there's the community patrols as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Having range of those is how we do it. We

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<v Speaker 3>police ourselves in supporting one organization, I think.

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<v Speaker 2>And just finally, do these sort of comments bother police particularly?

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<v Speaker 2>And how would you judge the morale of the police

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<v Speaker 2>because we have a new police commissioner and everyone seems

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<v Speaker 2>that inside the force morale's pretty good, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, morales through the roof?

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<v Speaker 2>Really?

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, yeah, I've just been I've been Willington just

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<v Speaker 3>for the last two weeks and you can see heads

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<v Speaker 3>up and I'm loving seeing an Auckland City police on

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<v Speaker 3>the beat. You know, two people walking together. Look, you

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<v Speaker 3>could put any amount of ambassadors and street patrols, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 3>But when you see two police officers walking down the street,

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<v Speaker 3>that has that whole different feeling. That's the feeling of

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<v Speaker 3>I'm safe. And so yeah, look, I think comments like

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<v Speaker 3>that have been made. I'm not sure. I'd love to

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<v Speaker 3>see the research of how we could police without police.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think we're really seriously exploring that. Just one

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<v Speaker 2>last question. So I said the last one was the last,

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<v Speaker 2>but I've got one more. Why is police? What is

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<v Speaker 2>the change that has made police morale so high, because

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<v Speaker 2>it's my outsider's view is simply they love the new

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<v Speaker 2>police commissioner, the tools that they've been given as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're cracking.

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<v Speaker 3>On That's exactly it. So when you get some additional

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<v Speaker 3>tools to help deal with gettings for example, or any

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I'm not just picking on we're talking on

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<v Speaker 3>organized criminal gangs. Were not talking gangs and gang patches.

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<v Speaker 3>But when you have new tools, a new commissioner who

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<v Speaker 3>I have worked with, he's a practical guy and he's

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<v Speaker 3>going to he's already made some change at the top.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that going on and they've got some new yep. Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 3>Mark Mitchell great minister to have there. You know, you

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<v Speaker 3>see him out there doing push up and all sorts

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<v Speaker 3>of things with them. So having that sort of yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>they they're really in a much better place than they were.

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<v Speaker 3>They're still getting poached from overseas from Australia, but that's

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<v Speaker 3>always been going on. It's been going on for years.

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<v Speaker 3>But with this new drive, I'm happy that there's a

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<v Speaker 3>whole lot of new younger police officers coming in to

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<v Speaker 3>take the place of the ones. At least good stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, Lance really appreciate your time this opening. Thank you

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<v Speaker 2>so much.

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<v Speaker 1>For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News

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