1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Kiyota. 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. A major 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: blaze at an Auckland supermarket this week has once again 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 2: highlighted the incredible work of our firefighters. 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: More than twenty. 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: Appliances and over eighty firefighters spend hours containing the fire 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: at the Victoria Park New World in scenes that captivated 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: audiences across the country. It's not the first major fire 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: the city has seen this year either, and it's unlikely 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: to be the last. So what's it like on the 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 2: frontline of these fires? And is our current fleet of 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: firefighting appliances up for the job? Today on the Front Page, 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: we're joined by New Zealand Professional Firefighters Union Auckland President 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: Terry Bird and Auckland local Representative Josh Nichols to get. 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: Into what it's really like for our firefighters. 17 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: So, Terry, can you give us an insight into what 18 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: goes into containing a fire like what we saw at 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 2: Victoria Park this week. 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: We have a set of predetermined responses, so automatically we 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 3: respond to appliances to an incident. The officers in charge 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 3: responding to the QUR can add additional resources and appliances 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 3: if they think that there is a need, and that 24 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 3: typically happens, and when they get to the fire, they 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: size up the situation and consider adding more resources and 26 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 3: then attack the fire using the tools that they have. 27 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: Josh, I guess as civilians we kind of see the 28 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: fire from the outside, see the plumes of smoke for Instagram, etc. 29 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: But I imagine on the ground it must be quite 30 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: taxing work. 31 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think that's a really brittent point 32 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 4: that you bring up, and I think that's something that 33 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 4: both me and Terry would like to share that we 34 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 4: should have gone jil members. You know, right through there's 35 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 4: there's a there's a big group of people here that 36 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 4: are involved in the response to one of these fires, 37 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 4: you know, and it starts with our fire com staff 38 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 4: in the first instance. You know, they're the people that 39 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 4: mobilize and dispatch their appliances or the crews to go 40 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 4: up and respond to the call. And then you know 41 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 4: the members that are out there on the internet ground. 42 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 4: You know, these are extremely challenging and arduous conditions and 43 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 4: you know, these these men and one and they give 44 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 4: it everything. You know, they come to work. I guess with, 45 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 4: you know, with a pride, a drive and a high 46 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 4: level of professionalism to sort of save savable life and 47 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 4: save buildings. You know, for people of the New Zealand 48 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 4: communities and all are very prudent. Point is the fact 49 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 4: that it's it's not effort that's letting us down. It's 50 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 4: it's the equipment, strategies and support. 51 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 5: I saw a hell a lot of smoke coming out 52 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 5: of the roof of the building at a New World 53 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 5: Victoria Park. We walked in there to do some work 54 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 5: on a supplier and wellin fifteen minutes have been inside. 55 00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 5: I experienced the fire agil maybe in thisitry for so 56 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 5: long I just thought it was a drill, but it 57 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 5: was an actual, real fire alarm and within minutes there 58 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 5: was smoke valuing out. 59 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: Every week, seeing how many appliances and firefighters responded to 60 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: that fire in Auckland this week. If you were to 61 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: live out in Botany or Pocacoa or somewhere, were you 62 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 2: ever at risk of not having someone show up at 63 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 2: your door? 64 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: What are the staff challenges here? 65 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 3: It's a real challenge for an emergency organization to have 66 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: enough resources to deal with an immediate emergency and then 67 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: to have enough resources to deal with a second or 68 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 3: potentially third or more. And so there's always been a 69 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: way of balancing that, and we have what we call 70 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 3: service delivery guidelines, and that we try to make sure 71 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 3: finds tries to make sure that there is enough resources 72 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 3: to always be able to meet those guidelines. And those 73 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 3: guidelines are about how long it takes appliances and crews 74 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: to arrive at any structured fire and probably should include 75 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 3: any emergency. And that's how they determine. What's happened over 76 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 3: time is that the resources have become more stretched. It's 77 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 3: taking us longer to get to calls because of traffic 78 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 3: congestion and traffic calming devices. We are not meeting those times. 79 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 3: So it is becoming normal for a fire appliance to 80 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 3: take longer to get to an emergency. 81 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,679 Speaker 2: And I can imagine, Josh, that every minute and every 82 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: moment counts. So how frustrating is it that there are 83 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: those delays. 84 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 4: It's really frustrating. And I think, you know, we need 85 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 4: to understand that a fire doubles and size every thirty seconds. 86 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 4: You know, someone you have put that into perspective. You know, 87 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 4: times is of the essence, right, you know, when we're 88 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 4: having appalled specialist appliances from our fourth largest city into 89 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 4: our largest city, you know at a two to three 90 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 4: hour response time, you can kind of see where we 91 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 4: start to face some of their complexities and then the 92 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 4: challenges that are then on laid to oc cruise on 93 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 4: the insidaground officers that are in charge and have to 94 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 4: make those technical command decisions, you know, with limited tools 95 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 4: on the toolbox, so to speak. 96 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, it just seems like a burden that they really 97 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: don't or shouldn't have to deal with in terms of 98 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: the appliances that we're talking about. I mean, am I 99 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: right to say Terry that Auckland has quite an aging fleet. 100 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a nationwide problem that there hasn't been an 101 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 3: injection of new appliances into the large centers for some time, 102 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 3: and FENS does face some challenges around that, and it 103 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 3: is doing a procurement at the moment to replace some 104 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 3: of the aging aerials, as it is with some of 105 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 3: our standard fire appliances. I think if we are just 106 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 3: to highlight, if you go back to the large fire 107 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: we had at the International Convention Center in twenty nineteen, 108 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: one of the recommendations out of that review was that 109 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 3: FAMES should develop a strategy on aerial appliances. It should 110 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 3: investigate what kinds we need, how many, and where they 111 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 3: should be. And so six years later there is a 112 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 3: draft of that document. I've not seen the draft, but 113 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 3: I'm going to speculate that it suggests or recommends that 114 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: we should increase our stock of verial appliances and we 115 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: should refresh them more often so that they don't get 116 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 3: to an old, unreliable age. I would then go, well, 117 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 3: why hasn't FENS done that if that's what their review 118 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 3: says that they should do. And now I'm speculating here 119 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 3: because I don't actually know what the review says. And 120 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 3: I'll speculate again. Our organization finds has been told to 121 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 3: save sixty million dollars. It hasn't been told to do 122 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 3: that because there has been some robust review of how 123 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 3: we performed. I don't believe anyone has looked at us 124 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 3: and said, you know, we can still be an effect 125 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 3: of service if we take this much money off. It's 126 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 3: been arbitrarily opposed on us by the government and now 127 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 3: by an emergency I'm speculating again knows that it needs 128 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 3: to invest in resources, that knows that it needs to 129 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: invest in its personnel, but it can't because it has 130 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 3: sixty million dollar savings imposed on it and any spinning 131 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 3: that it did would get the wrath of the minister. 132 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Josh, Yet we've seen this year two firefighters 133 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: having to be rescued from an aerial appliance while fighting 134 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: a fire because the aerial appliance malfunctioned. You mentioned getting 135 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 2: the gear and getting the appliance from Hamilton. Is it 136 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: ridiculous in twenty twenty five that we don't have enough 137 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: aerial appliances in our largest city. 138 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, look, I think we're going to understand 139 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 4: some of the complexities here. So you know, like Kerry's 140 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 4: highlight of the ICC fire that we had in twenty 141 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 4: nineteen now and twenty nineteen when that incident came through 142 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 4: Auckland at that stage was only running one heavy aerial appliance. 143 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 4: Fast forward six years forward and we're doing the same 144 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 4: custom and practice with Hamilton's aerial having had a cos 145 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 4: the day before. It was in for general maintenance and 146 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 4: routine service. But because we have no fat in the system, 147 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 4: that truck has to come out of commission. There's no 148 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 4: relief appliants there to be able to sustain capability. So 149 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 4: then we're in a mad rush to put it back 150 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 4: together to then get it on the road to travel 151 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 4: some two hours up to our largest city to serve 152 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 4: and support us. And a lot of that comes back 153 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 4: to we just don't have fat in the system. You know, 154 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 4: we co share a heavy aerial relief of plants which 155 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 4: is twenty seven years old. It's currently out of commission 156 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 4: at the moment of waiting what its future looks like 157 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 4: with some significant structural rush, you know, and it's seventeen 158 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 4: years overdue a major rebuilder and infection. So you know, 159 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 4: these are some of the complexities that we're facing in 160 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 4: the frustration. That's you know, the reason why we're here 161 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 4: talking to you today. 162 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: And getting it from Hamilton. 163 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: I mean that is reliant on it not getting turned 164 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: around because it had a road closure as well. 165 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 3: Well. 166 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,599 Speaker 4: I mean it's not I mean it's road closures, but 167 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 4: it's also too you know, we're robbing Pete to feed Paul, 168 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 4: so to speak. You know, that then adds undue stress 169 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 4: and pressure to the cruise down in Hamilton around their 170 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 4: tactics and strategy because we've pulled their resource up to 171 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 4: help us, you know, in twenty twenty five. In frontline operations. 172 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 4: One we shouldn't be in a position where we're having 173 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 4: to put trucks back together to respond them. But two, 174 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 4: we should have enough surge capacity or capability in the 175 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 4: system to be able to support cities major operational incidents 176 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 4: and also be able to have fatness system to support 177 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 4: general service servicing, routine checks, maintenance and the likes. You know, 178 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 4: we shouldn't be lift in these positions where we're having 179 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 4: to roll the boss, so to speak. 180 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 3: I heard on the radio the other day the mayor 181 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 3: of Hamilton claiming to be their fastest growing city in 182 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 3: the country, and they also have a twenty seven year 183 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 3: old aerial appliance, and they have an enormous amount of 184 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 3: risks in the city that require fire response. And here 185 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 3: we are using it in upland because we are not 186 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 3: adequately resourced to look after ourselves. Let's suggest to me 187 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 3: that the MS is broken. 188 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 2: Joe Stanley, the NZPF YOUW Boss, was actually on the 189 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: front page back in twenty twenty two talking about the 190 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: lack of appliances. 191 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 6: As an operation for far. As someone who works on 192 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 6: a fight truck every day. I am disappointed that the 193 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 6: money that it's given to the organization doesn't speed on 194 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,359 Speaker 6: responding to those communities' needs. The lack of heavy aerials, 195 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 6: the parable state of their aging and decrepit pumping fleet 196 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 6: as just an example of how the money is there, 197 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 6: but it's not being spent in the right place. 198 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 2: Are you surprised we're still having these conversations three years later? 199 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 3: I have to say I'm not surprised. What does surprise me. 200 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 3: FENS is doing some work towards this, and I acknowledge 201 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 3: that there are some good people and femes doing some 202 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 3: good work towards improving our fleet. What we're challenged with 203 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 3: is a lack of resourcing in those departments and a 204 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 3: lack of funding, a lack of appetit to spend money 205 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 3: on additional resources. And who do we have to convince 206 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 3: that spending additional money to make sure that our fire 207 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 3: service is modern and prepared for the risks that we 208 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 3: may need to attend. Who do we need to lobby 209 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: to do that? We need to lobby the purse strings holder. 210 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 2: Are you guys nervous about the state of things at 211 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 2: the moment? I don't want to be all doom and gloom, 212 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: But what do you reckon needs to happen for change 213 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 2: to come about. 214 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 4: Well, I think it definitely knocks the confidence out of 215 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 4: our members. You know, you highlight the incident over on 216 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 4: the shore on the twenty fourth of April, you know, 217 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 4: it does taken off to the confidence and I think, 218 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 4: you know, we need to acknowledge that our fire fighters, 219 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 4: you know, they go to some of the most testing 220 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 4: and trying conditions you know that you never meet in 221 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 4: your life, and we want them to be confident. We 222 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 4: want them to entrust their in their equipment to be 223 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 4: able to do their job to the best of their ability. 224 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 4: As for change, well, I think the first step is 225 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 4: actually delivering on these operational reviews which have given us 226 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 4: clear LFIS opportunities for improvement. You know, there's one thing 227 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 4: to be able to talk about it, but then there's 228 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 4: another thing to be able to have tangible deliverables on it. 229 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 4: And also, you know, like Terry's talked about with this 230 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 4: supposed review that was meant to be designed and released 231 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 4: that we're nobody's seen and still waiting for, is that 232 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 4: you know, there is a real significant need for an 233 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 4: enhancement and capability. You know, our city at our city 234 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 4: is sitting at one point six million people. You know, 235 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 4: it's dramatically increased for us over the years, and we 236 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 4: haven't seen an increase in staffing or performance and capability. 237 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 4: I mean ironically, and Terry could quote to this, as 238 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 4: you know, in the nineteen eighties we had six heavy 239 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 4: eeril appliances in the city. We're now down to one 240 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty five. 241 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd like to answer that question as well. Choose seat. 242 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 3: So I've been a career firefighter. I think it's thirty 243 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 3: eight years. I've been through a range of reviews and 244 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 3: changes in this organization, and I personally believe that we 245 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 3: are possibly in the west condition that we've been in 246 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 3: my career. And I try to balance that. Is it 247 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 3: because I know a whole lot more because I'm involved 248 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: in the whole lot of stuff and that's quite notice, 249 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 3: you know, during other changes, or is it genuinely are 250 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 3: we really in a crisis environment? And it sort of 251 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 3: doesn't matter where we are not in a we are 252 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,599 Speaker 3: not in good shape this organization. 253 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 7: About two years ago, losses involved with this particular incident, 254 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 7: a house fire that was starting to brew up, and 255 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 7: so it was still savable. But as soon as hearing 256 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 7: to go through the door, the pumpound a catastrophic water failure, 257 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 7: just started dumping water on the brown It was a 258 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 7: part failure. It was determined from that, and we're up 259 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 7: with the investigation that it had failed because it had 260 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 7: never been maintained. So it was the bureaucracy had missed 261 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 7: the opportunity to make sure that the vehicles were up 262 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 7: to speck and safe for. 263 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: Us to use. 264 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, we keep here about getting more cops on the beat, 265 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: the shortage of medical staff. I mean those hit the 266 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 2: headlines all the time, and you guys are the third 267 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: part of our emergency services. 268 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: Isn't good enough? Or do you feel left behind? 269 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 3: I think a really good answer to that is who 270 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 3: is monitoring the performance of fire an emergency? And I 271 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 3: would suggest that no one is monitoring their operational performance, 272 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 3: their preparedness. Again, there are a lot of good people 273 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 3: doing a lot of good work. But if we respond 274 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 3: to an incident and our performance is not as good 275 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 3: as it could be, we don't share that dirty laundry. 276 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 3: And really, the only organization with a really good insight 277 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 3: to how far an emergency is performing in the main centers, 278 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 3: is the NZPF. You people don't necessarily think that we're 279 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 3: a credible organization to be judging fire an emergency because 280 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 3: we have conflictal interest, but it's still we are the 281 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 3: only organization who is waving the flag and saying we 282 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 3: have some serious problems here. 283 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: Josh, if you got a minister in front of you, 284 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 2: what would you say to them? What needs to happen 285 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: like yesterday? 286 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 4: Well, I think it comes down to this, really, you know, 287 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 4: the New Zealand and public expect us to have the 288 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 4: you know, for us to have our best day on 289 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 4: their worst day, and for us to have our best 290 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 4: day on their worst day. We need to have the 291 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 4: tools of trade to be effective in their time of need. 292 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 5: Yeah. 293 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 3: We we are a workforce that want to do good 294 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 3: work for our communities and we don't want to be 295 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 3: making excuses. And I think the question to the minister 296 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,479 Speaker 3: is what level of performance is okay for our community? 297 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 3: And I think we've already we've already got worse than 298 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 3: what is okay for many communities around New Zealand, and 299 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 3: nobody knows that the performance has slowly been degrading and 300 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 3: that is our problem. We have to have our communities 301 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 3: know that Feinsi's performance is reducing. 302 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: Terry and Josh thanks for joining us. 303 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 3: Cre're welcome. 304 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 2: For a response from fire an emergency New Zealand. 305 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: Have a look in the show notes below. 306 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 307 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 308 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: at enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 309 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 310 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front 311 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts 312 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: And tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.