Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
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Speaker 2: R S time sample of his band Simple Balls, Wow, Western.
Speaker 3: Class Now.
Speaker 2: Elmo sell Man s Man a complicated as.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: I let that roll a little bit longer, sell us,
Speaker 2: Jim Jimmy Barnes. I mean, you can't, you know. I think,
Speaker 2: actually we hear this every time we hear Max Max Whitehead.
Speaker 2: It is good. I was Max Bradford again because you
Speaker 2: kept on reminding me that I used to get your
Speaker 2: name wrong, because he was the local mpued.
Speaker 4: Earlier on Folks and he's just copied it.
Speaker 2: Excellent, Yeah, excellent. We're with Max Whitehead, of course, the
Speaker 2: familiar tones of the employment law specialist. And look, just
Speaker 2: before we get into it, one your Cause, of course,
Speaker 2: that's the name of the game of eight hundred and
Speaker 2: eight ten eighty text nineteen nine two. Before I do,
Speaker 2: I'll just mention if you did miss the Health Hub
Speaker 2: fantastic conversation with h at Kent John's about motivation and
Speaker 2: just you know, a lot of the time people listen
Speaker 2: to shows about exercise and you sort of think, O, well,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing that yet. I'm not doing that yet.
Speaker 2: And it was an interesting discussion around just how do
Speaker 2: you get going without giving yourself a goal that's going
Speaker 2: to intimidate you into stopping In a.
Speaker 4: Couple of weeks, I couldn't wait because I did nine
Speaker 4: thousand steps this today.
Speaker 2: You just did that sitting in your share twitching, didn't
Speaker 2: you just now?
Speaker 4: It's a working class man.
Speaker 2: Anyway, and if you wanted to hear that and the
Speaker 2: politics how we had a chat about the with Ruth
Speaker 2: Money about the new sentencing guidelines that have come in.
Speaker 2: We're not the guidelines and new rules around it, and
Speaker 2: that was an interesting chat as well. And we had
Speaker 2: also spoke with PWC's policy tax leader, Sandy Law about
Speaker 2: about the cost of the cost of superannuation and how
Speaker 2: we're going to pay for it eventually and something's going
Speaker 2: to have to change with our tax settings or something.
Speaker 2: And so you can listen to everyone's calls on that.
Speaker 2: Go to the weekend look for the Weekend Collective on
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio or news talk, said b right, Max, So survey
Speaker 2: results have shown that New Zealand workers this year value
Speaker 2: noways cynical about these things. But I'll finish what I'm
Speaker 2: reading Value work life balance ahead of salary or benefits,
Speaker 2: career development, and even job security. So that is a
Speaker 2: big one. They value work life balance ahead of salary
Speaker 2: or benefits, career development, and even job security. Additionally, the
Speaker 2: same reports show employees are likely to switch jobs for
Speaker 2: better work life balance than better pay. I'm going to
Speaker 2: qualify that in a second with my own rancid opinion.
Speaker 2: But so what a nine to five is actually want
Speaker 2: from their employers? What keeps them satisfied and motivated the
Speaker 2: point that they're working past sixty five as well? Max,
Speaker 2: I reckon just a hot take that if you are
Speaker 2: earning a truckload of money, then you might be I
Speaker 2: don't care about money. I just care about life balance.
Speaker 2: But if you're struggling to pay the bills, I don't
Speaker 2: know whether those people are. What do you reckon?
Speaker 4: Well, I think there's a new philosophy in town, and
Speaker 4: I actually do think there's a lot of people do
Speaker 4: believe that. But it also if they're filling out a survey,
Speaker 4: they don't know who's watching it. So what can I do?
Speaker 4: I'll make get people impressed with me. Money's not important
Speaker 4: to me, and that's the vogue. The people aren't even
Speaker 4: being honest I'm out of COVID's cod People didn't want
Speaker 4: to go back to work. They did not want to
Speaker 4: go back and working from home. Everyone one wants to
Speaker 4: work from home right now.
Speaker 2: Well, is this one of the big issues that you're
Speaker 2: having to battle all the time. Absolutely, because I've got
Speaker 2: to say, look and we've all I'm not shifting the conversation,
Speaker 2: but it's a sideline. It's one of the angles. Is
Speaker 2: the whole working from home. I like coming into work.
Speaker 2: I like separating. There were working from home up to
Speaker 2: a point, and I've broadcast from home. We have these
Speaker 2: bits of equipment they can see around. We connected into
Speaker 2: the Wi Fi and everything not into the WiFi. We're
Speaker 2: hard wired and you can actually do the show from home.
Speaker 2: If I was desperate, if work we're desperate. I like
Speaker 2: coming to work. I hate the fact that workplace, that
Speaker 2: the lounge orman, you know, at the spare room, became
Speaker 2: the office. And yet you're saying that people want to
Speaker 2: do more of it.
Speaker 4: They certainly do, and they do. They enjoy it because
Speaker 4: I think it's a little bit about Oh, I can
Speaker 4: see my kids more often, I can do a lot
Speaker 4: more in my time, I can spread myself around a
Speaker 4: little bit, get the meal prepared while I'm supposed to
Speaker 4: be working. Note a few other things like this. And
Speaker 4: I've got to say, in some areas the product but
Speaker 4: he does increase. In some areas people take advantage that
Speaker 4: they can't help themselves. They'd rather go off and play
Speaker 4: other than go to work.
Speaker 2: How difficult is it for people to be monitored by
Speaker 2: their managers and bosses?
Speaker 4: Very difficult.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess if they're getting done the work
Speaker 2: you're setting them, then fine. In fact, I wonder if
Speaker 2: you are working from home, you know, not being supervised,
Speaker 2: you think, well, if i can bang this out really quickly,
Speaker 2: then I'm off to the beach yep. And a manager,
Speaker 2: if they knew that'd be like, oh, you've finished that already,
Speaker 2: I might give you something else.
Speaker 4: Oh of course. Then AI I can do things in
Speaker 4: micro seconds where they used to take at least an
Speaker 4: hour or so to do it. That happens, I can
Speaker 4: tell you now that does happen. I mean in the
Speaker 4: law fraternity, I mean they create documentation and charge hours
Speaker 4: and hours of work for it, but AI will just
Speaker 4: put it out within seconds.
Speaker 2: It is actually an amazing tool. I wonder, actually it's
Speaker 2: I don't imagine it's real, resulting in cheaper legal bills
Speaker 2: for people the case. Here are the facts, here's the
Speaker 2: interview together, a statement of claim, and then they just
Speaker 2: go and I mean it must be a massive time saving.
Speaker 4: Well, I think of your staff. I mentioned writing a
Speaker 4: news item. You know that would be very much easier
Speaker 4: using AI than it would be.
Speaker 2: Well, that's quite an art. I'm going to say that's
Speaker 2: an art just because I'm sure that I have never
Speaker 2: done it. Pretty strict rules about not going near that
Speaker 2: stuff to be so you just on that one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just hush your pretty little mouth. But actually, how
Speaker 2: how realistic is it? And is that the biggest thing
Speaker 2: is at the moment, a lot if.
Speaker 4: People just do not prefer to work from home, A
Speaker 4: lot of employers now are insisting. So I'm asked constantly
Speaker 4: what's the law? Say, what what do I have to do?
Speaker 4: We have to go with the boss and go back
Speaker 4: to the workplace. Well, can I work from home?
Speaker 2: Well, to be honest, I would have thought that the
Speaker 2: law would be in the boss's favor, wouldn't it. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you're providing someone with a job, you've got a
Speaker 2: workplace you want them to work for work at I
Speaker 2: would have thought that it's only in the negotiation with
Speaker 2: an employee that would lead to them having a bit
Speaker 2: more leeway.
Speaker 4: Well, what it is, it's pre COVID. Anyone started before
Speaker 4: pre COVID. The employment agreement must stipulate where the workplace is.
Speaker 4: So all those documents before that were like workplaces some
Speaker 4: and so after COVID, employers were struggling to get the
Speaker 4: workers and so what they said, Oh there's an option here,
Speaker 4: you could work from home, and they've drafted that into
Speaker 4: employment agreements. So that document will dictate what they can do,
Speaker 4: what the employer can enforce.
Speaker 2: Okay, And what happens I mean is that the standard
Speaker 2: thing these days is that are people negotiating a certain
Speaker 2: amount of time that they work from home.
Speaker 4: Yep, there's a lot of preference to do that. Some
Speaker 4: people won't drive the work in the workplace, like yourself.
Speaker 4: I'd say, it's almost a generational thing. The younger ones.
Speaker 4: Let me go home and be near my children. Let
Speaker 4: me go home and be near my you know, the
Speaker 4: house gives me comfort, and I don't have to get
Speaker 4: dressed up as much, and you know, the makeup, I
Speaker 4: don't have to put on that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean for me as well. I mean broadcasting
Speaker 2: it's a people business and I like to be around people.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, just trying to walk into
Speaker 2: your into your office sort of thing and sit down
Speaker 2: and feel connected in a way that you wouldn't feel
Speaker 2: as we've got a newsroom of reporters. You can catch
Speaker 2: up with what the latest is. There's a certain I
Speaker 2: really yeah, I think that that's well.
Speaker 4: Let me tell you I worn't from them for twenty years,
Speaker 4: and I miss it. I missed the workplace for the
Speaker 4: exact reason you're talking about. I saw you just walk
Speaker 4: across the across the but you chatted to three people
Speaker 4: on the wall.
Speaker 2: I'm a pain in the butt.
Speaker 4: No, I think it's and you had them laughing. And
Speaker 4: I'm sitting back as a spectator watching this thing, and
Speaker 4: that's heartwarming.
Speaker 2: That's quite funny. I wonder if Elliot Smith sees me
Speaker 2: coming and goes areas it care comes to trouble, I
Speaker 2: do notice it. No, we had a brilliant and had
Speaker 2: a brilliant idea for a podcast for Elliott actually, but
Speaker 2: I won't share that because it's yeah, a good idea
Speaker 2: so we want to hear from you. You though, when
Speaker 2: it comes to work, what is you know, what are
Speaker 2: the things you value most about work? And is it
Speaker 2: a work life balance ahead of anything else Where does
Speaker 2: salary come in? Because look, let's be honest, we turn
Speaker 2: up to work to earn money to pay for the
Speaker 2: things we want, whether it be to support our kids,
Speaker 2: to put good food on the table. God, that's such
Speaker 2: a cliche, isn't it, But that's for many people. That's
Speaker 2: the basics. Pay the rent, feed your family, feed yourselves.
Speaker 2: Maybe if you're lucky, be able to afford to do
Speaker 2: something nice, if you've got a break and go somewhere
Speaker 2: on holiday. So salary, I'm still suspicious that salary isn't
Speaker 2: slightly more and just in terms of the rhetoric of
Speaker 2: people's responses, slightly more important. In other words, if your
Speaker 2: boss said to you, I'll tell you what we'll pay you.
Speaker 2: You know, look, if you're prepared to fore go one
Speaker 2: hundred bucks a week, we'll let you work from home
Speaker 2: three days a week. But otherwise we'll pay you a
Speaker 2: hundred dollars more a week to come and to work.
Speaker 2: In fact, actually there'll be a lot of people going
Speaker 2: all the parking, the transport. OK, I'll work from home.
Speaker 2: But you know what I mean? What is king for
Speaker 2: you in the workplace? Is it salary? Is other benefits?
Speaker 2: Is it the fact that I don't know, your employer
Speaker 2: gives you access to cheaper healthcare, but they see that's money.
Speaker 2: Is it the fact that you've got career development or
Speaker 2: even job security?
Speaker 4: Isn't a theory since COVID. COVID actually supplied made sure
Speaker 4: salary was paid to people even irrespective they went to work. Also,
Speaker 4: it's a parachute for them. There's a comfort zone. There's
Speaker 4: also today you can get the unemployment benefit. Whereas you
Speaker 4: talk to older people, you were the breadwinner, you had
Speaker 4: to go to work, otherwise your family suffered immensely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we would love to know from you if
Speaker 2: you're listening. By the way, if you've got any questions
Speaker 2: for Max, he's an employment law specialist and often people
Speaker 2: call up because they're having a particular problem they need
Speaker 2: to resolve and how do they get started with the
Speaker 2: resolving the problem they've got. You're welcome to give us
Speaker 2: a call on that as well. On eight hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty ten to eighty. But on the broader topic. We're
Speaker 2: talking about what is the most important thing about work
Speaker 2: for you and what's the work life balance that is
Speaker 2: important to you? A head of salary, benefits, career development,
Speaker 2: and even job security. Give us a call eight hundred
Speaker 2: eighty ten eighty. I mean, are you like me? Do
Speaker 2: you actually like to go to work because you like
Speaker 2: to be with the people who you work with. You
Speaker 2: enjoy working with them, you enjoy the environment. Is that
Speaker 2: an important part of it? Or you know what if
Speaker 2: you could do it all from home, wouldn't that be great?
Speaker 2: Eight hundred eighty ten eighties the number text nine two
Speaker 2: nine two? How so do you work? Where do you
Speaker 2: work from?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Max?
Speaker 4: From home?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 4: So and look, I was going to end something else
Speaker 4: here for older people already getting a pension for example,
Speaker 4: but they want to work and why it gives them
Speaker 4: purpose in life. It gives them a standing in the
Speaker 4: community and they can hold their head up with some pride.
Speaker 4: I'm actually contributing to our society. Yeah, I'm not just taking.
Speaker 2: Actually, that is the extra question to it as well,
Speaker 2: because if you are working past sixty five, is so
Speaker 2: so many more people are doing these days? What is
Speaker 2: it about your job that makes it doable simply, Look,
Speaker 2: I need the money and I just have to have
Speaker 2: to work. Or is it because you've created the conditions
Speaker 2: at work that work for you? And look, why would
Speaker 2: you stop because you're enjoying it? Eighty ten eighty text
Speaker 2: nine to nine two and you can email. I don't
Speaker 2: worry about the email. I'm not going to get round
Speaker 2: of the email. I'll be heading out of the office
Speaker 2: on holiday in about forty.
Speaker 4: Minutes'll be back.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not, I'm working hard. It's it's eighteen minutes
Speaker 2: past five. News talk said by that's right, we're back
Speaker 2: weekend collective. It's a smart money My guess is Max
Speaker 2: white Head, employment law specialist. We're asking what's the most
Speaker 2: important thing and you work deal? Basically is it about
Speaker 2: the money or is it about the work work life balance?
Speaker 2: Because apparently, according to survey results, workers are saying it's
Speaker 2: work life balance ahead of salary, benefits, career development or
Speaker 2: even job secure, which sounds like I don't know. I
Speaker 2: want to be skeptical about it, but you've got to
Speaker 2: go with these things. Let's take your cause.
Speaker 4: John, Hello, Hey John? Yeah?
Speaker 5: Okoday, guys, how are you? Yeah, I'm Look, I'm an
Speaker 5: older worker. I'm I'm, you know, sixty six and continuing
Speaker 5: to work. I spent I came back from the UK
Speaker 5: in late twenty twenty two, was up there during COVID
Speaker 5: and everything else. You know, I think everybody's situation is different.
Speaker 5: But working from home, yeah, I guess works in some industries,
Speaker 5: but I think I think by large, you know, I
Speaker 5: think it's great to be back in the office. I
Speaker 5: spent a lot of years on the road and now
Speaker 5: I'm I'm still in the sales environment, but I'm going
Speaker 5: to one place every day, and to me, it's about
Speaker 5: the community of going there. Staff there are fantastic. But
Speaker 5: the other side of it, for me, at the age
Speaker 5: i'm at the thing I cherish the most. I can
Speaker 5: go into work in the morning, do a really good job,
Speaker 5: and mean when I leave at five, I leave it
Speaker 5: all behind. That's really important to me. Whereas other roles
Speaker 5: I've had passed, you know, you sort of you know,
Speaker 5: do what you do for a couple of hours. You've
Speaker 5: got the lamptop out happen away doing stuff. So so yeah,
Speaker 5: that's the difference to me, you know. But I'm going
Speaker 5: to do another two or three years still enjoying working.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah, that's an interesting point. What are you
Speaker 2: what's your reflections on that, Max, Because you don't tell
Speaker 2: you if you if you're working from home, it's you
Speaker 2: can't really leave you how the challenge is to leave
Speaker 2: you work.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking slow, I'm thinking John's valuing it and tell
Speaker 4: me John if this is correct, because you've your experience,
Speaker 4: you've been around. But also it's it provides you with
Speaker 4: dignity and a social outlet as well. And it sounds
Speaker 4: like working with your colleagues is something that you do enjoy,
Speaker 4: even though you might not spend hours talking about stuff
Speaker 4: and just you know, social things. It's just been near
Speaker 4: someone else and actually being able to just have a
Speaker 4: chat when you feel like it about something else.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that's that's right. That my situation that that's
Speaker 5: certainly right. And maybe maybe because I didn't spend a
Speaker 5: lot of time on the road, you know, for for
Speaker 5: quite a lot of years. You know, being being in
Speaker 5: the one place is quite important.
Speaker 1: To me now.
Speaker 5: But so I enjoy all the that. But but again
Speaker 5: I'm not working necessarily because I have to, but I
Speaker 5: still I still enjoy the challenge going to work, and
Speaker 5: you know, I've got plenty of other communities outside of work,
Speaker 5: but it works worth something. I'm still enjoying.
Speaker 4: So John, you and your work when your work life,
Speaker 4: I can imagine you're driving for for what eighty percent
Speaker 4: of the time? Was seventy percent of the time of
Speaker 4: ninety twenty percent with people? Would that be right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Probably seventy Probably, you're right, it's probably seventy thirty, you know.
Speaker 5: And that's a lot of that's a lot of dead time,
Speaker 5: even though you've got to go and see customers. It's
Speaker 5: a lot of dead time on your backside, you know.
Speaker 5: And it's and it's and it's yeah, you know, I've
Speaker 5: traveled a lot, you know, I stay at hotels called
Speaker 5: aeroplanes here there, and people think that it's.
Speaker 4: A lonely light. It's a lonely Yeah, yeah, good role.
Speaker 2: Thanks John. Cheers mate. There lots of ticks on this
Speaker 2: before you go to Catherine, is it. I don't know
Speaker 2: what this one is. Somebody says, if you fall over
Speaker 2: at work at home during work hours, is that classed
Speaker 2: as a workplace accident? Trivial sort of weird question, but
Speaker 2: then again not really.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's a hard one because really you have
Speaker 4: to associate it with the work that you're actually doing
Speaker 4: at home. So if you're sitting and talking on the phone,
Speaker 4: for example, or you're sitting at your desk and working, well,
Speaker 4: then tripping while you're walking is probably not.
Speaker 2: Put Well, if you're going to get your cup of
Speaker 2: coffee for Smoko time and you stand up and you
Speaker 2: fall over and you wack your head on the desk,
Speaker 2: and I know that sounds like a workplace.
Speaker 4: I know you're right him, because if you did at
Speaker 4: the workplace, then it would be deemed to be work
Speaker 4: related accident. Yeah, So it depends on how.
Speaker 2: If you've gone up to change your child's nappies and
Speaker 2: you know, something happens or something and you slip over,
Speaker 2: then probably not a workplace action.
Speaker 4: Or your previous guest they're not taking a jog at
Speaker 4: the time, maybe that wouldn't work either. So it just
Speaker 4: just depends on what you're doing, I think, and what's
Speaker 4: it related to.
Speaker 2: We can probably imagine quite a few scenarios and interesting
Speaker 2: scenarios we can throw max for different questions. It actually
Speaker 2: I got yes, Now I'm going to send some myself
Speaker 2: on that one. Let's go to Catherine.
Speaker 6: Hello, Hello Catherine, Hi, how are you deceiving?
Speaker 4: Very good?
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: I'm ringing in because on talk about radio this week,
Speaker 3: I've been hearing about how the superannuation government to granuation
Speaker 3: is actually a benefit. And I am seventy one years
Speaker 3: old this year, and I am still working three days
Speaker 3: a week and tens worked on seventy five. I've paid
Speaker 3: my taxes through the years.
Speaker 6: I work three jobs.
Speaker 3: When I was younger, sought I could buy my first time,
Speaker 3: and at this point in time, I'm paying secondary employment tax,
Speaker 3: actually high secondary I employment tax on my second job,
Speaker 3: so I kin't it's my job other than my attention.
Speaker 3: So I sort of get a bit resentful about people
Speaker 3: calling us greedy and everything else. And even those people
Speaker 3: on high are much higher wages than I given been
Speaker 3: on They've been paying higher taxes normally, so their contribution
Speaker 3: to the pension system has been greater than most. But
Speaker 3: I just I just sort of have been thinking all
Speaker 3: week about some of the discussions on it. Football tonight,
Speaker 3: I'm just going to ring and say, not all of
Speaker 3: it are out there working because we're greedy.
Speaker 2: No, you're doing it because you need it.
Speaker 3: You can't live on the pinch.
Speaker 4: No, you can't.
Speaker 3: And I do have savings and I'm mortgage free, but
Speaker 3: I work in a job that doesn't have all the
Speaker 3: KPIs budget mine budget that I used to have, and
Speaker 3: I work with amazing people in a family firm.
Speaker 4: Point, Catherine, how would you feel if if there was
Speaker 4: three people lined up who had children at home and
Speaker 4: they needed a job desperately and were skilled as equally
Speaker 4: as good as you? I woul dare say, you're still
Speaker 4: working at seventy one. You've got some a lot of
Speaker 4: wisdom and knowledge of your job.
Speaker 3: But oh well yes, yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 6: Well I feel I mean, they're.
Speaker 4: More deserving than you. That's probably the better question.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think so, because I think I've paid
Speaker 3: my juris over the years to be able to do
Speaker 3: what I'm doing. And I know that it's a selfish
Speaker 3: boomer thought, but you know, I've done my swimming to
Speaker 3: make money to.
Speaker 2: Be wow, I don't think it's a selfish thought. Sorry, Catherine, No, no, no,
Speaker 2: but look everyone Otherwise we end up arguing that anyone
Speaker 2: who charges more than the sort of basic subsistence for
Speaker 2: their time has been greedy. We're aspirational.
Speaker 4: You were.
Speaker 3: I'm on a very very I'm not on a huge
Speaker 3: hollly rate at all. I'm in a retail rate, but
Speaker 3: I work with people of different ages from seventeen to
Speaker 3: sixty and we have fair best customers that are regulars
Speaker 3: that come in and build a relationship with And I
Speaker 3: have friends who on the dimension trip dementia trip. Now,
Speaker 3: I just want to keep my brain and my body
Speaker 3: effective as I possibly can and maintain the standard of living.
Speaker 3: That one is true, and by the time I'm simplified,
Speaker 3: probably I might actually need to work.
Speaker 2: Well, well, look, I think you make what a decisions
Speaker 2: you want and the idea that we want to accuse people.
Speaker 2: Thank you for your caller beings.
Speaker 4: So that was great.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, you can always throw the accusation
Speaker 2: of selfish, it's one of us. I mean there are
Speaker 2: times when, of course in life, when you can probably
Speaker 2: can accuse someone of being selfish where they're not considering
Speaker 2: the needs of others. But when you're simply just doing
Speaker 2: your best to keep living a good active life and
Speaker 2: paying for things you want to do, that's not selfish.
Speaker 2: That's living life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I do actually think your contribution to society
Speaker 4: Catherine's obviously made a huge contribution, and also she's a
Speaker 4: very comfortable position. She's got savings, she's got things. But
Speaker 4: those other people who are struggling and trying to get
Speaker 4: a home even you know, get a house for themselves,
Speaker 4: and she's way ahead of those. And I'm just wondering,
Speaker 4: you know, even looking at myself, was at the times
Speaker 4: she just step aside and let someone have a go.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that's bollocks. No, But I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: just using colorful descriptions all.
Speaker 4: The announcers that want to come in and take your job.
Speaker 2: Oh good goodness, me gosh, I'm further down the age scale.
Speaker 2: Don't worry. There's a few probably older than me hopefully,
Speaker 2: But no, I mean, I just think that there's I
Speaker 2: think life is expensive. You look at the cost of living,
Speaker 2: and I think even just now, I'm noticing the increase
Speaker 2: and things like rates kicking in and you're seeing what
Speaker 2: the rates, even Hamilton were they go another fifteen percent
Speaker 2: rate rise and different inflationary measures that are kicking in.
Speaker 2: And if anyone thinks that you can get by on
Speaker 2: the peace superannuation, you mean, that's that's the thing. What's
Speaker 2: the number of people who are having to work past
Speaker 2: the age of sixty five. And then other people surveyed.
Speaker 2: Was it forty percent at least or more? I can't
Speaker 2: remember the number, but there was a lot of people.
Speaker 2: In fact, it was almost looked like it was a
Speaker 2: luxury to be giving up at sixty five.
Speaker 4: Oh and I talked to a friend in the week.
Speaker 4: He's going off to live in a caravan up north,
Speaker 4: very remote spot. Why because he can't he's lost, he's
Speaker 4: lost his life savings.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 4: I know, it's awful and he's just going up there
Speaker 4: to chill, but he's got no money, bloody, and to
Speaker 4: live on the pension. That's the only way you can
Speaker 4: see you can survive.
Speaker 2: That's pretty tough.
Speaker 4: That's rent, no limited rent. So in a caravan he's going,
Speaker 4: and he's looking forward to it. I must admit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I hope it works out from God. And
Speaker 2: that's the thing I think. You know, people, when we
Speaker 2: end up with these conversations, everyone assumes that maybe they
Speaker 2: assume older people have got a job and work for
Speaker 2: forty fifty years and they should be fine. But people
Speaker 2: have ups and downs and all sorts of things. They
Speaker 2: have a crack at different businesses. Maybe they buy a
Speaker 2: house at the wrong time and they struggle to meet
Speaker 2: the mortgage payments. I wonder how many people live the
Speaker 2: conventional life. Well, you get a qualification or an early job,
Speaker 2: invest in a business or your own time, and you
Speaker 2: just work in that business, maybe a career change or two,
Speaker 2: and then you retire happy and then hopefully don't live
Speaker 2: too long and cost the health system so much.
Speaker 4: Discriminating, isn't it, Because in a way, because if you've
Speaker 4: got so much experience and done well in life. I mean,
Speaker 4: there's a law passing soon that anyone earning over one
Speaker 4: hundred and eighty thousand dollars is not allowed to go
Speaker 4: and use the law to take a personal grievance.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: Actually, yes, let's dig into that, by the way, because
Speaker 2: I don't quite understand why. What The justification for that
Speaker 2: law is.
Speaker 4: No why, And I just think it's discriminating against someone
Speaker 4: who's been successful, okay, which I find very strange for
Speaker 4: this government.
Speaker 2: It does sound quickly. I'm surprised I didn't pick up
Speaker 2: on that to discuss that with you today. Somebody is
Speaker 2: that there's some interesting questions coming on the text. One
Speaker 2: is I'm almost wondering if this is a mischievous text,
Speaker 2: because it's almost I can't believe it could be real,
Speaker 2: let alone legal. Hi, Max, my employer has decided to
Speaker 2: give women fifteen days sick leave per annum and leave
Speaker 2: men at ten days.
Speaker 4: Is that legation that's not legal?
Speaker 2: I mean, who's doing that?
Speaker 4: I would agree it doesn't sound kosher. But if that's happening,
Speaker 4: that individual could take an action against his employer for
Speaker 4: breach of the Human Rights Act.
Speaker 2: Is it possible that there's something missing in that fact
Speaker 2: that they say if you need extra leave for maternity leave.
Speaker 2: They've granted them something, and there's something missing. I mean,
Speaker 2: is there would there be an excuse to say, if
Speaker 2: you are having a baby, we will give you extra
Speaker 2: maternity leave for whatever.
Speaker 4: I remember very successful man once said publicly, No, he
Speaker 4: wasn't public He thought he was quiet. They hid the
Speaker 4: camera and actually he didn't realize he was still being anyway.
Speaker 4: What he says is that women are less productive than
Speaker 4: men because of their once a month periods.
Speaker 2: Oh well that wasn't a smart thing.
Speaker 4: No, But I'm wondering is this implying the same I
Speaker 4: don't know, I.
Speaker 2: Do not know. No, I don't think so. It just
Speaker 2: looks like a parandum thing fifteen hours. Well, anyway, okay.
Speaker 2: Another one says, my wife took a ten thousand dollars
Speaker 2: a year pay cut to work nine days in every fortnight.
Speaker 2: So I guess I'm assuming she was on a hund thousands.
Speaker 2: She went down to ninety thousand and just said I'll
Speaker 2: do that because only.
Speaker 4: And there's stories of stories that there is a lot
Speaker 4: out there people take a pay company and rather and
Speaker 4: actually ask for a demotion, rather than actually have the
Speaker 4: stress of a high level job.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Another person say, life balance.
Speaker 2: Another person thinks that the perhaps the survey was targeting
Speaker 2: eighteen to thirty five year olds different views on work.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very true.
Speaker 2: You were were a bit suspicious about that. Yeah, yah,
Speaker 2: I'll love to go down and look at that survey.
Speaker 4: Anyway, suspicious that they were just thinking, who's going to
Speaker 4: read this, I'll better make sure the boss is happy
Speaker 4: what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to think it was maybe a
Speaker 2: little bit more profit than that. Anyway, of course, it's
Speaker 2: eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number. Text nine
Speaker 2: two nine two. By the way, we have canvas to
Speaker 2: fair bit of information and a few angles of conversation.
Speaker 2: So just to bring it back to what we're talking about,
Speaker 2: is what is the primary thing you want to achieve
Speaker 2: with your work life, with your with your employment? Is
Speaker 2: it about work life balance? And is that more important
Speaker 2: than salary of benefits? Let's look at it this way.
Speaker 2: You're going in to negotiate to do a job, what's
Speaker 2: the first question on your lips? Is it about focusing
Speaker 2: on what you're getting paid? Or is it how much
Speaker 2: time can I take for myself? Which I'm not sure
Speaker 2: is the best way to start a negotiation, but anyway,
Speaker 2: you can tell us what would be your first thing
Speaker 2: to talk about twenty four and a half minutes to
Speaker 2: six news talks that'd be yes. Welcome back through the
Speaker 2: Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage. My guest is Max Whitehead
Speaker 2: is an employment law specialist. We're talking broadly in our
Speaker 2: conversation around what are the most important things in your employment?
Speaker 2: Is it work life balance? Is it ahead of salary
Speaker 2: or benefits? But extending the conversation to people who are
Speaker 2: working past the age of sixty five, we have had
Speaker 2: a bit of a superannuation theme during the show because
Speaker 2: we had a chat about the fact that we're not
Speaker 2: going to be able to afward our superannuation in the
Speaker 2: decades to come, and we need to start thinking about
Speaker 2: other taxes or how we're going to do cover that.
Speaker 2: But for those who are working past sixty five, what
Speaker 2: is it that is keeping you satisfied and or motivated?
Speaker 2: And why? And when I say why are you're doing it?
Speaker 2: I don't mean that why are you're doing it as
Speaker 2: if it's a naughty thing to do? But what is
Speaker 2: motivating you? What's motiving that choice? Because there is a
Speaker 2: large number there are a large number of people beyond
Speaker 2: the age of sixty five, we will continue working. And
Speaker 2: for many of the people I know do it, it's
Speaker 2: simply because they like being an active member of society.
Speaker 4: Let me tell you this story. I had an employer
Speaker 4: contact me once and he said, we've got a seventy
Speaker 4: six year old and she's the glue in the office
Speaker 4: and she's been talking about leaving, and I'm saying, please
Speaker 4: don't go seventy six because she just gets everyone together,
Speaker 4: she motivates people, she's got a nice spirit about it,
Speaker 4: and just actually made it all happen for him. So
Speaker 4: he begged it not to go, and she did retire.
Speaker 2: It's seventy He begged her not to go, but she
Speaker 2: still retired.
Speaker 4: Yep, because everyone just loved it so much and she
Speaker 4: just held it together.
Speaker 2: I wonder if the begging included a pay rise. I
Speaker 2: think I think, you know, it's all right, you can
Speaker 2: beg but you know, money talks.
Speaker 4: Maybe I was seventy six. I think she might have
Speaker 4: said to him, that's a good question for you, because
Speaker 4: you think money. Does the world revolves around money? Well?
Speaker 4: I think in her particular case, she probably thinks, no,
Speaker 4: I need a rest. For goodness, I don't want to
Speaker 4: get up at five o'clock in the morning to get
Speaker 4: ready made.
Speaker 2: I wonder how, and I mean, obviously that person begged
Speaker 2: them to stay, but it's interesting to try and how
Speaker 2: would you quantify the value of that sort of employee
Speaker 2: to an organization where they are sort of the blue
Speaker 2: A lot of workplaces, I mean, you spend more time
Speaker 2: at work than you do with your family a lot
Speaker 2: of the time. And if you've got someone who makes people,
Speaker 2: who makes the workplace, who gives it a certain atmosphere
Speaker 2: or a vibe, whatever, I don't know how you value that,
Speaker 2: but it's it's worth something.
Speaker 4: And a focus. I mean, someone to go to who's
Speaker 4: a mentor and say, look, I'm not you know, I'm
Speaker 4: not feeling right up to it. I don't tell the boss.
Speaker 4: What do you reckon? Now? You go take your time
Speaker 4: and do this and this, and I can help you
Speaker 4: with some degree. But what what you need to do
Speaker 4: is to go and blah blah blah blah. You know,
Speaker 4: give you some wise counsel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, let's take some more calls. Suzette.
Speaker 4: Hello, Hi there, Hi, Susette, how are you doing good?
Speaker 7: When I gave up lessing at fifty five, the nurse
Speaker 7: manager said, when I said I'm leaving, she said, human
Speaker 7: resources will not let you leave. I thought they don't
Speaker 7: hold me.
Speaker 2: I think she was trying to compliment you.
Speaker 7: No, no, she was absolutely.
Speaker 3: Up front.
Speaker 4: They can't stop it from leaving. But Sustte, I say,
Speaker 4: Tim's right there. I think you being told you a
Speaker 4: wonderful person.
Speaker 2: Now, I think they were just saying we love you.
Speaker 2: Don't leave. In fact, I have an order saying you're
Speaker 2: not allowed to leave. That's the sort of I mean,
Speaker 2: it's not real. Don't you think that that's the game
Speaker 2: they played.
Speaker 7: It was because her job depended on me being there?
Speaker 3: Did you, of course?
Speaker 2: What happened to her job? Did it turn out her
Speaker 2: job depended on you being there? Or did she carry
Speaker 2: on quite happily?
Speaker 7: They moved her from management to ED and so.
Speaker 2: I guess she was happy with that emergency department. What
Speaker 2: was your job?
Speaker 1: What did you do?
Speaker 2: Nurse? Well, I mean a nurse, but there's nurses and
Speaker 2: all sorts of specialties these days. What was your what
Speaker 2: was your Well?
Speaker 7: I was an intensive care the last position, but I
Speaker 7: was really a floater. So when it was on that
Speaker 7: moved me here or there afterwards, indeed, or an emergency somewhere.
Speaker 4: Well, you've seen some action, I'm sure, But now did
Speaker 4: you miss them when you're left?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 7: When I lived, I became self employed as an entrepreneur,
Speaker 7: buying and selling houses, renovating them and all that stuff.
Speaker 7: Fir far enjoyed it. No pecking order, no stream has
Speaker 7: just got the job done.
Speaker 2: And hopefully no one in intensive care unless you unless
Speaker 2: you got yourself in trouble on the work site doing
Speaker 2: some DIY.
Speaker 4: Well, if someone didn't buy their property, might be.
Speaker 2: There was his Maybe that was their closing arguments like, hey, listen,
Speaker 2: you know we're going to close the steel. I used
Speaker 2: to work in intensive care, and trust me, I know
Speaker 2: how to put you there. Sorry, I'm just being mischievous.
Speaker 2: Is that you don't have to respond to that. In fact,
Speaker 2: you can't because we're going to go to Actually a
Speaker 2: few texts, we've got quite a few texts to get
Speaker 2: on top of before we go to Ken. My husband
Speaker 2: is seventy three and still working my way. While it
Speaker 2: may appear that we are being selfish, we don't want
Speaker 2: to look at anyone else to support us, and we're
Speaker 2: trying to help our children too, have young families and
Speaker 2: so they can look also look not have to look
Speaker 2: elsewhere for support. That's the thing. There's always other reasons.
Speaker 2: People just look at older people working they think, why
Speaker 2: are you still doing it?
Speaker 4: Well, then well what they're trying to do is give
Speaker 4: dignity to their other family. I think that's what's the
Speaker 4: motivator there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, let's go to Ken. I do want to
Speaker 2: before my mind, we we've got to talk about that
Speaker 2: that bit about the new rules around one hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty thousand dollars salary or nothing that we must touch
Speaker 2: on that before you let down. Wrap it up. But
Speaker 2: let's go to Ken get Hello Ken.
Speaker 6: Great guys, I don't I've enjoyed listening to you a
Speaker 6: bit of a chit chat. I'm down here. It's really late.
Speaker 6: I'm overlooking. Who were harder? Down a pocket? Anyway?
Speaker 4: Oh you got that?
Speaker 2: Are you playing here?
Speaker 6: I had to make the truck out of the out
Speaker 6: of the driveway of the driveway because the kids next
Speaker 6: door were playing ball, and that means my truck's going
Speaker 6: to get hit with it. So I came down here
Speaker 6: and I've the usual story. There's plenty of freedom campers
Speaker 6: down here and people living in the park.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 6: My point, as being a baby boomer I'm seventy two,
Speaker 6: is that it's a nonsense to me.
Speaker 2: What's nonsense that people older people.
Speaker 6: Are in a way it should be working. I know
Speaker 6: how they yeah, I know how they feel, and I
Speaker 6: think that well, p's their best. But my that's my
Speaker 6: feeling about it. I would never employ anybody above the
Speaker 6: age of sixty five, and I think people that's why
Speaker 6: people above the age of sixty five don't get employed.
Speaker 2: I know what it's like.
Speaker 6: It's fifty five now.
Speaker 2: Now, and I surgeon who's about seventy one, and he's
Speaker 2: still doing great work and making a big difference in
Speaker 2: people's lives. And he's seventy one.
Speaker 6: He's not as good as he was when he was
Speaker 6: forty one. That's the point.
Speaker 4: And you would agree that some people perform better than
Speaker 4: others and at certain ages.
Speaker 2: Then again, judges, they say get wiser with a little
Speaker 2: bit of age. I mean, if you wanted to judge,
Speaker 2: would you want to judge it is in their thirties
Speaker 2: and you know, but wet behind these.
Speaker 1: Look.
Speaker 6: Look, it's a very broad brush you're stroking there. But
Speaker 6: the other point that I would like to make there's,
Speaker 6: you know, like basically we're where the human instrument wears out.
Speaker 6: Let's put it that way, and it doesn't wear out
Speaker 6: in a lineal sense. You might be physically looking good,
Speaker 6: but you might have issues to do with your liver,
Speaker 6: or you might have issues was your hearing or your
Speaker 6: vision or your thinking or your memory?
Speaker 2: And I reckon you need to back up your how
Speaker 2: old are you? Roughly? I think you need to support
Speaker 2: your age group and say right, I'm here.
Speaker 6: No, I don't agree with that, I'm seventy two. But
Speaker 6: the point and that's why I'm saying that. The point
Speaker 6: I'm the point I'm making here as well is that
Speaker 6: with with older people is I don't have a lot
Speaker 6: of time for people who are young paying for the
Speaker 6: pension for people who are old, because basically I don't
Speaker 6: think that's right for young people. My view about it,
Speaker 6: who is this is that old people boomers have voted
Speaker 6: for forty or fifty years for policies, which means there's
Speaker 6: no superannuation fund. Yeah, I think there's no superhu superannuation
Speaker 6: fund and there's no superannuation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I spend damn your whole generation can. But
Speaker 2: we'll leave it there because a bit of a misery
Speaker 2: guts there on your own generation goodness, may I mean
Speaker 2: for goodness sake? You know, sorry, but you know, back
Speaker 2: your own generation up. Don't write everyone off just because
Speaker 2: you're feeling a bit miserable yourself. Crikey, dick, Sorry, is
Speaker 2: that a bit harsh?
Speaker 4: You've got to get a lot of callers now, I'm sure, Oh.
Speaker 2: We haven't much time. But anyway, I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2: I'll don't have a cup of tena like. Look, can
Speaker 2: I actually do appreciate you having the courage of convictions.
Speaker 2: You've caught up to see your views. No better crack it.
Speaker 2: You're just a bit of fun. But welcome to We'll
Speaker 2: see if we get any text on that one work.
Speaker 2: Max Whitehead will be back in just a moment. It's
Speaker 2: coming up to eleven minutes to six. Yes, welcome back.
Speaker 2: I'm Tim Beverage with Max Whitehead and Lucky Last call it. David.
Speaker 4: Hello, Hello David. Yeah, Hi, very good.
Speaker 2: What's up?
Speaker 6: Okay, what's up?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 6: I made your sex and I'm still.
Speaker 2: Working you Europe. That's full time. What are you doing
Speaker 2: full time?
Speaker 6: Yeah? I'm writing about four businesses.
Speaker 4: All right, So you run your own businesses, do you, David?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's not four bakeries where you're up at
Speaker 2: two am in the morning, you know, I sort of
Speaker 2: getting them.
Speaker 4: These are.
Speaker 6: Marketing businesses and.
Speaker 4: Production business David. You must be like mister Fletcher used
Speaker 4: to go into work and he was in his seventies
Speaker 4: or eighties, so we'd park speak and every day he
Speaker 4: went to work way into his eighties, but he was
Speaker 4: more of a figurehead for the organization.
Speaker 6: Well, that's right, I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 4: But becoming a figurehead, do you have a lot of
Speaker 4: staff look up to you're still coming in.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, we have a crowded with stuff. But yeah,
Speaker 6: it gives you purpose in life. They retire and they've
Speaker 6: lost the purpose in life there you know what is
Speaker 6: in the headhouse one day and the next day they're nobody.
Speaker 2: If I was going to sermonize a little bit essentially,
Speaker 2: what's behind my admiration for people? He keep working and
Speaker 2: people work for a bunch of reasons. But obviously you
Speaker 2: know you're not going to suddenly end up, you know,
Speaker 2: in the poorhouse if you retire. But I just think
Speaker 2: that that it's and I think it's more inspirational to
Speaker 2: people that there are people who can demonstrate that you
Speaker 2: don't just stagger through to sixty five. If you can
Speaker 2: find something that inspires you, you enjoy doing it, that
Speaker 2: you and it's it's not like you were saying, I'm working,
Speaker 2: therefore you can't to me the lesseners. Look at me.
Speaker 2: I'm eighty six and I'm still going and get into it.
Speaker 4: Four businesses where he's employing people, making and doing something
Speaker 4: constructive for our society.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's inspiring. It's not a it's not
Speaker 2: a you get stuffed or I'm being self. I think
Speaker 2: hats off to people like you, David.
Speaker 4: Good on you, mate. You guys will know of Warren Buffett.
Speaker 2: Oh well he's only just retired and how what was
Speaker 2: he and wequit? I think people who had shares with
Speaker 2: Warren were quite happy that he kept on going, didn't they.
Speaker 4: I bet he's worth.
Speaker 6: War Warren has made the point that he knows a
Speaker 6: lot of a lot of entrepreneurs there who hit their
Speaker 6: peak at ninety.
Speaker 2: Well he would because he's ninety four. And I imagine
Speaker 2: he mixes in some fairly rare about atmosphere Trump's going
Speaker 2: to do. Oh okay, don't bring it down at the
Speaker 2: thinking about so.
Speaker 4: David, I'm going to quickly tell you about a friend
Speaker 4: of mind. He did very very well in business. As
Speaker 4: soon as he gave it up, he lost all sort
Speaker 4: of dignity on the basis that he was insignificant thereafter,
Speaker 4: and he shared that with me. So I think, good
Speaker 4: on you. You carry on absolutely and being self employed,
Speaker 4: as he is more important than You're not taking anyone's job,
Speaker 4: you're creating jobs. Well done.
Speaker 2: Absolutely good on your David. Yeah, and that I think
Speaker 2: is thank you, mate, And I think that's a good
Speaker 2: note to end on a way, And I think what
Speaker 2: I try and generally push back and talk back on
Speaker 2: this stuff is when it people want to otherise others.
Speaker 2: They want to go people in this age or the
Speaker 2: second gender or this race and stuff like that, and
Speaker 2: it's so unhelpful. And I just sort of think that
Speaker 2: it's better to look at people like David and people
Speaker 2: who care I'm working. If it's not out of desperations,
Speaker 2: because they enjoy it, then what a great role, what
Speaker 2: great examples. So here ended the lesson a Max.
Speaker 4: That's the end of the meeting.
Speaker 2: I mean, of course you're still in your infancy, that's
Speaker 2: why you're still working. But ah, if people want some
Speaker 2: some help from you, though, can they where can they
Speaker 2: get in touch?
Speaker 4: Well? Max for the Facts. If you need to kids touch,
Speaker 4: it's Max dot w at Whitehead Group, dot co dot
Speaker 4: in zere.
Speaker 2: You you better say that again because you you blurred
Speaker 2: it with Max for the Facts. I think people are
Speaker 2: google googling Max forothe facts dot com or okay.
Speaker 4: Just google Max whitehead and you'll pick me up. But
Speaker 4: it's Whitehead Group, dot co dot in zied.
Speaker 2: Excellent. Thank you so much, Max, and what a great session.
Speaker 4: You will enjoy your holiday.
Speaker 2: Well, I am taking a I'm taking a few days.
Speaker 2: And Andrew, Andrew Dickins is going to be filling in
Speaker 2: on the Weekend Collective. So I think that'll be the
Speaker 2: first time for Andrew, big career move for him filling
Speaker 2: in the Tim Beverage on the Weekend Collective. He'll be
Speaker 2: excited about that. So tune in next weekend again and
Speaker 2: I'll look forward to your company in a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks time. And thanks also to my producer who's because
Speaker 2: Tyra is away she's getting married. I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: she is actually is married now, but she's got a
Speaker 2: few weeks off, and so Isaiah has been filling in.
Speaker 2: And Isaiah has been doing a rip rowing job. So
Speaker 2: thank you so much for your preparation today as so
Speaker 2: really good music. Oh boy, you're setting a high bar there, mate,
Speaker 2: And I'll look forward to your company in a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks. Have a great rest of you Sunday evening,
Speaker 2: and thanks so much for your time. We'll look forward
Speaker 2: to next time. Cheers.
Speaker 4: I certainly was in the rape.
Speaker 7: I don't know it was really drunk at the time.
Speaker 2: You just told me it was.
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