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Speaker 1: Now a couple of international developments over the weekend. One

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Speaker 1: Zelensky seems to have blinked Russia can have some territory

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Speaker 1: if Ukraine gets to join NATO to the Syrian wars

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Speaker 1: back former uk de vincit in Moscow. John Foreman's with

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Speaker 1: us from Britain morning, good boy. Indeed, does Zelensky move

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Speaker 1: over the weekend week or not?

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Speaker 2: No? I think it was a good idea. I mean,

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Speaker 2: obviously that this is all about Donald Trump, and missus

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Speaker 2: Lensky said actually his interviewed, that there'll be no ideas,

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Speaker 2: that every needs to be more detailed. So I think

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Speaker 2: missus Lenski is trying to fill the void by putting

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Speaker 2: forwards her proposals head of January when Trump becomes president.

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Speaker 1: So when putincy is also we can rely on Trump,

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Speaker 1: you know, smart man, he'll sort something out. What's he

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Speaker 1: gunning for?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think I've thought for a while both sides

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Speaker 2: are heading towards some sort of SEASPI MESSI compromised deal

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Speaker 2: in the new year. I mean Russia's just set out

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Speaker 2: at Stall earlier this year about more of us of

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Speaker 2: capitulation from Ukraine aside from Ukraine's and Turner now said

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Speaker 2: we're ready to accept some form of ceasefire and peaceful

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Speaker 2: territory swap only with a guarantee of security guarantees from NATO.

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Speaker 2: So I think both sides of trying to influence Trump,

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Speaker 2: who's kept his cards very close to his chest. Actually

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Speaker 2: the only person really has is missed General Kellogg, whose

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Speaker 2: plan actually there's very much sort of negotiation and peace

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Speaker 2: through strength value that Native membership would get de lay,

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Speaker 2: but America would actually provide some form of security assurances

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Speaker 2: to Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: If Putin gets a bit of land but they get NATO,

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Speaker 1: can he sell that as a wind domestically?

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Speaker 2: I think that's difficult, because you know, we know how

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Speaker 2: much Putin set his stall against NATO in fact force

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Speaker 2: justifications of the war in the first place. I think

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Speaker 2: Presidents Lenski said that Putin wants Putin thinks that Ukraine's

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Speaker 2: part of Russia. He wants to destroy Ukraine, so that

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Speaker 2: would be very difficult for him. And I think native

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Speaker 2: membership has always been an absolute firm red line for

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Speaker 2: the Russian side. So whether it's actually NATO NATO, or

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Speaker 2: whether it's a selection of NATO countries security guarantees to

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Speaker 2: Ukraine in that piece deal. Would that be acception. I

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Speaker 2: think we have to see if I think we've got

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Speaker 2: a long way to go, and I think things will

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Speaker 2: depend on how things turn out over the winter, and

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Speaker 2: you know, by the exact front line and the exact

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Speaker 2: situation both sides find themselves in. Right January February.

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Speaker 1: Flip side can Zelensky sell NATO and but a loss

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Speaker 1: of land.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've seen I think politics hasn't gone away from Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: I think we've seen presidants Lensky's popularity is slide and

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Speaker 2: the number of people inside Ukraine who want some called

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Speaker 2: peace deals risen. So there's that sort of tension. It

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Speaker 2: would be very difficult, after I think almost three years

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Speaker 2: of war to say we're going to give away his

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Speaker 2: temporary acquaied territories. But I think Pa is clever, but

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Speaker 2: he said we're not going to give up our claim

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Speaker 2: to all of Ukraine. This will be a temporary end

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Speaker 2: to the hot phase. And although it's the first time

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Speaker 2: he's talked about it, these sil rumors and discussions have

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Speaker 2: been around Kia for a long time. So this year,

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Speaker 2: especially as the situation has gone against Ukraine on the.

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Speaker 1: Battlefield okay, and then while I've got jip Siria, does

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Speaker 1: Elasad survive this line now? And Russia and around too

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Speaker 1: busy to help out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not a great expert on Syria, but I

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Speaker 2: would say from the Russian perspective, I think the rapid

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Speaker 2: advance of the opposition forces has caught everyone unawares, especially

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Speaker 2: the Kremni, which has been massively distracted by the war

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Speaker 2: in Ukraine. Of course Rand's been distracted, and of course

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Speaker 2: Sad Allies has been hammered by the Israelis over the

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Speaker 2: last few months. So we've seen how much Russia treats

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Speaker 2: Syria as a client, because I said quickly fleuted Moscow

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Speaker 2: to get his orders, and we've now seen a round

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Speaker 2: of purist diplomacy. But I think the problem is that

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Speaker 2: Russia has less leaders than it might have had a

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Speaker 2: few years ago. It hasn't got the troops because they've

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Speaker 2: all been bogged down in Ukraine. The aircraft we poured about,

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Speaker 2: the air defenses they gave to a said were also

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Speaker 2: pulled back, so they've resulted to bombing. But whether that

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Speaker 2: will actually affect the situation aground, it's very confused at present.

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Speaker 2: But I would say, there's a lot of people in

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Speaker 2: the Syrian opposition who want to seek revenge on the

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Speaker 2: Russians for murdering tens of thousands of Syrian civilians last decade.

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Speaker 1: All right, John, appreciate it. John Foreman, former UK Defense

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Speaker 1: at in Moscow. For more from The Mic Asking Breakfast,

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Speaker 1: listen live to News Talks at B from six am weekdays,

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