Speaker 1: Kiota.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Christopher Luxon
Speaker 2: believes his so called Coalition of Chaos has defied the critics.
Speaker 2: The Prime Minister is spending the remainder of twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four lauding his government's achievements. Inflation is under three percent,
Speaker 2: a thirty percent increase of cops on the beat, twenty
Speaker 2: six new cancer treatments, tax relief.
Speaker 1: That's just a name a few.
Speaker 2: But he is ending the year facing criticism over his
Speaker 2: handling of the Treaty Principles Bill and for his corporate
Speaker 2: way of talking and pole results show a deadlock.
Speaker 1: Between the left and right coalitions.
Speaker 2: So with a promise to get the country back on
Speaker 2: track and a focus on rebuilding the economy, can Luxon
Speaker 2: turn around the public criticism. Today on the front Page,
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister joins us to discuss the year that's
Speaker 2: been his hopes for twenty twenty five and if the
Speaker 2: new year could see the government up the anti when
Speaker 2: it comes to welcoming foreign investment. First off, Prime Minister,
Speaker 2: how's the year gone?
Speaker 3: Well? Look, I mean it's been a really tough year
Speaker 3: for many New Zealanders as we've dealt with sort of
Speaker 3: some of the economic challenges. But you know, to be
Speaker 3: Prime Minister is just a huge privilege and an awesome responsibility,
Speaker 3: and it's also been a very inspiring one and the
Speaker 3: sense of you you get to see Kiwi through incredible
Speaker 3: things across this country each and every day. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm proud of the year in terms of I feel
Speaker 3: like we've formed a good team, We've made some good progress,
Speaker 3: we're being able to lift your international relationships, been able
Speaker 3: to a number of things, and I feel very very
Speaker 3: optimistic about our future as I go forward from here.
Speaker 1: What's been the biggest challenge so far?
Speaker 3: I mean everything's challenging when you're Prime Minister in the
Speaker 3: sense of if they were easy decisions, they would be
Speaker 3: made somewhere else in the system, and so you know,
Speaker 3: the difficult decisions come onto your desk and they're often
Speaker 3: complex and a bit more layered than you may initially
Speaker 3: think or observe from outside. So every day there's something
Speaker 3: new and different and complex and challenging, and that's you know, personally,
Speaker 3: that's what I enjoy, is that you're there to solve problems,
Speaker 3: and you're there to make decisions and in the interests
Speaker 3: of the country and trying to set it up for
Speaker 3: long term success. And so there's no not one particular
Speaker 3: thing per se. It's just that you know, every day
Speaker 3: there's something different and complex to work your way through.
Speaker 3: You know, how do you get in place the funding
Speaker 3: that you need to spend money on health and education
Speaker 3: when you might have a big interest bill at nine
Speaker 3: billion dollars to pay. You know, it's those sorts of
Speaker 3: challenges that we can counter each and every day.
Speaker 2: You've faced a lot of criticism in recent weeks from
Speaker 2: across the political divide. Are you paying attention to any
Speaker 2: of that first off?
Speaker 1: Or is that just noise to you?
Speaker 3: There is criticism every day in this job, so you're
Speaker 3: informed of it, but you're not consumed by it. But look,
Speaker 3: I just say to you, look, you know, we feel
Speaker 3: really good. We've great to see that our support and
Speaker 3: the numbers that I see has actually improved over where
Speaker 3: we were in the election. You know that means that
Speaker 3: people used to say the country was hitting in the
Speaker 3: wrong direction. Now people say the country's hitting the right direction.
Speaker 3: They know it's been tough, but they know that we're
Speaker 3: a government with a plan and we're having to face
Speaker 3: up some really difficult choices, but we're working our way
Speaker 3: through it well. So you know, it's pretty pretty good
Speaker 3: when you think about a government twelve months into it.
Speaker 3: To be ahead of where we were on election night
Speaker 3: in public support as fantastic and I get out of
Speaker 3: Wellington as quickly as possible. When you meet New Zealanders
Speaker 3: all up and down this country, and yes it's been
Speaker 3: challenging for many, but they can see that, you know,
Speaker 3: their interest bills are coming down, their mortgages inflations come down,
Speaker 3: our crime is starting to turn and come down. They
Speaker 3: can see that we're trying to drive our education system
Speaker 3: back to basics so our kids are set up for
Speaker 3: success and not behind kids in Singapore or Australia or
Speaker 3: somewhere else in the world. And we've got some real
Speaker 3: investment going to healthcare and we've got to make sure
Speaker 3: we work that hard to get improved outcomes for people.
Speaker 3: We've got a long way to go, so you know,
Speaker 3: we've got a lot of work ahead of us, but
Speaker 3: in twelve months, you know, we're doing a big turnaround job.
Speaker 3: We're getting you know, and we're getting get in the
Speaker 3: country moving, which has been good. Wouldn't an economically literate
Speaker 3: government have worked this out of it sooner? Jack? Jack, Jack,
Speaker 3: I just say to you, it tells everyone about your
Speaker 3: economic I just says it. Hang on, I haven't even
Speaker 3: asked a question. What I'm saying to you is it
Speaker 3: is challenging times when New Zealand. I'd say that I
Speaker 3: would say to you that, Well, I just say to you,
Speaker 3: we've seen I'll just say to you, under your tax
Speaker 3: package what to say to you with relatives to the
Speaker 3: rest of the population. But but what I say to you, Jack,
Speaker 3: You're saying a lot of things to me, but you're
Speaker 3: not actually we actually answered.
Speaker 2: So I've heard that you acknowledge that you need to
Speaker 2: work on your tendency for corporate speak. There's also been
Speaker 2: some reaction to your use of the phrase what I
Speaker 2: say to you is.
Speaker 1: Are these things that you're going to be working on
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five?
Speaker 3: Well, I haven't heard about the second one. But look,
Speaker 3: what I say to you is, yeah, what I will
Speaker 3: say to you is that I am from outside the
Speaker 3: political system. You know, I'm not a career politician. And
Speaker 3: that's a fantastic thing because right now is Island has
Speaker 3: been in a huge economic mess, one that we haven't
Speaker 3: seen for decades. And actually, I think my background, my
Speaker 3: experience coming to politics in the way that I have
Speaker 3: just four years ago and being Prime Minister and leading
Speaker 3: a team to actually make sure we sought problems out
Speaker 3: for people is exactly what New Zealand needs right now.
Speaker 3: So if I get it, the Beltway and a lot
Speaker 3: of people who are pundits and commentators and say whatever
Speaker 3: they want, they've been saying that for four years since
Speaker 3: I came to politics. Frankly, I'm informed about it, but
Speaker 3: I'm not consumed by it because I know why I'm here,
Speaker 3: because I choose to do this job. I chose to
Speaker 3: come to politics because I think this is a fantastic
Speaker 3: country with an awesome future, and I think I've got
Speaker 3: something to offer.
Speaker 1: We had Chris Hopkins on last week and he said.
Speaker 3: I don't think a lot of New Zealanders think he's
Speaker 3: a bad prime minister, and I think they've got good
Speaker 3: good grounds for that.
Speaker 1: What would you say to that? Was he a good pam?
Speaker 3: He was a terrible prime minister. He took the keys
Speaker 3: to the car, he drove it, at tremendous speed. Put
Speaker 3: it into the ditch. We're hauling it out of the ditch,
Speaker 3: getting it our right way up, and then we're moving
Speaker 3: it forward. I mean, honestly, he was a terrible prime minister.
Speaker 3: I mean, how do you increase government spending by eighty
Speaker 3: four percent? How do you drive inflation to highs? How
Speaker 3: do you have twelve interest rate rises that for the
Speaker 3: average New Zealand I meant they had to find seven
Speaker 3: hundred dollars a fortnite if they were lucky enough to
Speaker 3: own a house. How do you spend more, borrow more,
Speaker 3: tax more, hire more people and deliver worse outcomes in
Speaker 3: every dimension? So you know, yeah, look, I mean, so
Speaker 3: don't take lectures from crescip Cans with all due respect.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of the economy, how much credit do you
Speaker 2: think the government deserves for how things have performed this year?
Speaker 3: I mean, that is job number one for us as
Speaker 3: to put financial discipline back into the government. Businesses have
Speaker 3: had to do that over the last few years because
Speaker 3: of the mismanagement from Chrysipkins team and himself. Families have
Speaker 3: had to adjust their budgets and decide not to spend
Speaker 3: money on things for their kids because of the mismanagement
Speaker 3: from the previous government. You cannot spend, drive inflation, interest
Speaker 3: rates up, put the economy into recession for the last
Speaker 3: three years, and drive unemployment up. And that is the
Speaker 3: legacy record of crucip Cans and Labour team. So you
Speaker 3: know this government, we're fixing those things. We have to
Speaker 3: go back and relearn some lessons that the country learned
Speaker 3: thirty five years ago. You've got to have good financial management,
Speaker 3: just like you doing your family budget, just like you
Speaker 3: do in your small business. You've got it, then get
Speaker 3: inflation down for people. It's now within the band under
Speaker 3: three percent, which is fantastic. Because of that, and because
Speaker 3: we've been good fiscal plan operators, you end up then
Speaker 3: lowering your interest rates. That doesn't just happen. It doesn't
Speaker 3: just miraculously sort of happen. It happens because there's a
Speaker 3: plan and we're working our way through it. We now
Speaker 3: have business confidence at a teen year high, we have
Speaker 3: consumer confidence at a three year high, and so and
Speaker 3: now we've got to focus on that translating into economic
Speaker 3: growth and that obviously making sure that we keep people
Speaker 3: in jobs and employment. Unemployment's the last thing and unemployment
Speaker 3: sadly affects lower middle income News Islanders. And so if
Speaker 3: you care about lower middle income working News Islanders, as
Speaker 3: I do, as my government does, as my party does,
Speaker 3: that's why you need to manage the economy well, because
Speaker 3: when you don't and you take it for granted, you
Speaker 3: end up with the mess that we inherited after six
Speaker 3: years of a labor experiment that was horribly wrong.
Speaker 2: Could there be an opportunity for New Zealand to welcome
Speaker 2: more public private partnerships with the stipulation of the funds
Speaker 2: are key we based. I mean I saw a figure
Speaker 2: from Ossie and they're seeing something like one hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty billion dollars a quarter in investments by super funds
Speaker 2: into infrastructure alone. Imagine just half a percent of that,
Speaker 2: we'd have a second Harbor bridge in Auckland in no time.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, you're onto the right thing. We have major
Speaker 3: challenges on infrastructure. We can't get things built, it takes
Speaker 3: too long. And also we don't always we don't have
Speaker 3: the financial capacity to fund it all from within government
Speaker 3: for the infrastructure that we want to see. So there's
Speaker 3: two things. You're right, Yes, we could use domestic pools
Speaker 3: of capital more and will continue to look at that.
Speaker 3: But the other thing, frankly, Chelsea, is that we also
Speaker 3: need to make sure that we attract foreign investment to
Speaker 3: New Zealand. New Zealand is thirty eight out of thirty
Speaker 3: eight now in terms of being an attractive place for
Speaker 3: big international superannuation funds all around the world, which has
Speaker 3: lots of money in those funds looking for a home
Speaker 3: to invest who are very open to investing in New
Speaker 3: Zealand but don't because they think it takes too long,
Speaker 3: it costs too much. And that's why things like our
Speaker 3: fast tracked legislation have been important. That's why you're setting
Speaker 3: a thirty year pipeline of infrastructure projects that are actually
Speaker 3: laid out really clearly, like you see in New South
Speaker 3: Wales and other parts of the world. All of those
Speaker 3: things that we're putting in place are other things that
Speaker 3: we need to do to make sure that we actually
Speaker 3: move on and actually can access pools of capital from
Speaker 3: overseas automistically to get things built quicker and faster in
Speaker 3: New Zealand.
Speaker 2: Well, what we really need though, is long term plans. Hey,
Speaker 2: last time you're on the front page, you said more
Speaker 2: cross party collaborations are needed when it comes to those
Speaker 2: big infrastructure projects. Is that something that we could see,
Speaker 2: say next year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we have been. What we've got to
Speaker 3: do is work on a thirty year pipeline that you
Speaker 3: should be an independent list of infrastructure projects for the
Speaker 3: country that are the right things for us to be
Speaker 3: doing at the moment. We get money together, we scrape
Speaker 3: it all around, we put it together on one project,
Speaker 3: we work really hard to try and get that project done,
Speaker 3: and everything it takes too long, and everybod there's a
Speaker 3: cost over because it's been badly managed partner by the
Speaker 3: previous government. Think to needn hospital, think berries. And then
Speaker 3: what we've got to do is have a longer term
Speaker 3: pipeline of infrastructure projects and then have our city regional
Speaker 3: deals and have an agency that actually knows how to
Speaker 3: get the funding and financing in place for it. And
Speaker 3: so that's the mechanism we're putting in place. I do
Speaker 3: agree with you. I think it'd be fantastic to have
Speaker 3: bipartisan support. And so even just on our new statement
Speaker 3: around public private partnerships, you know, we've reached out to labor.
Speaker 3: We've got Barbara Edmonds to come on board and actually
Speaker 3: support that program as well. So that's a good development.
Speaker 3: That's a good thing. You know, it shouldn't be as
Speaker 3: politicized as it is in New Zealand. If you just
Speaker 3: think about a project like Auckland light rail, which the
Speaker 3: last government mismanaged so badly. You know, Montreal started a
Speaker 3: project similar to that. They started it but later finished it.
Speaker 3: Within five years people are on their light rail trains.
Speaker 3: We spent two hundred and fifteen million dollars on it
Speaker 3: and we still didn't know where we were we were
Speaker 3: putting the tracks if we could ever get the tracks down.
Speaker 3: So I mean we are terrible at it. You know,
Speaker 3: Cambridge to Clearity road gets turned on off depending on
Speaker 3: which government's in place. That is just basics. Building roads
Speaker 3: is not difficult or complicated. It happens all around the world.
Speaker 3: So we do have to manage infrastructure a much better
Speaker 3: way going forward.
Speaker 4: This is a damaging piece of legislation. This government, Christopher
Speaker 4: Lutson is taking a recon ball to the work that
Speaker 4: has been done by successive governments over the past fifty
Speaker 4: years since the White Time You Tribunal was established. This
Speaker 4: bill of would amount to the dictatorship of the majority
Speaker 4: this parliament can it has passed racist laws in the past,
Speaker 4: and Marty are still paying the price and we all
Speaker 4: are still paying the price.
Speaker 1: When it comes to the Treaty in School's Bill.
Speaker 2: I know you're probably sick of talking about it, but
Speaker 2: do you think voting against the bill at the second
Speaker 2: reading is good enough? Because it seems like just the
Speaker 2: mere existence of it has kickstarted a debate that will
Speaker 2: never end and I mean Seema will no doubt bring
Speaker 2: it up again in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3: Well, what I say on that one is that you
Speaker 3: have to understand that under Hipkins and a Ajourn and
Speaker 3: when they went off into things like the Maori Health Authority,
Speaker 3: when they went off and forced Mark Mary Wards onto
Speaker 3: local governments from Central Wellington, when they started to talk
Speaker 3: about co governance and spent one point two billion dollars
Speaker 3: on three waters projects that didn't even go anywhere. You know,
Speaker 3: all of that created a huge division and frustration within
Speaker 3: New Zealand. And unlike Jim Bolter who took New Zealanders
Speaker 3: on a journey and made the case for Treaty settlements,
Speaker 3: there was no political capital spent or any effort to
Speaker 3: take New Zealanders with them on that agenda. So going
Speaker 3: into the last election, there was immense frustration, and that
Speaker 3: frustration sits on both sides of that debate. We just
Speaker 3: happened to think that that frustration, as legitimate as well be,
Speaker 3: is not best served by a very simplistic Treaty Principles
Speaker 3: bill that with the stroke of a peon overcomes one
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty four years of debate and discussion. We
Speaker 3: need to make sure these enders have equal rights. It's
Speaker 3: a fundamental and we also need to make sure that
Speaker 3: the Crown meets its obligations under the treaty and so
Speaker 3: and that treaty process. We you know, we disagree on
Speaker 3: the issues, but we stay committed and we stayed talking
Speaker 3: to each other over the last one hundred and eighty
Speaker 3: four years. We haven't agreed on everything over that period
Speaker 3: of time, but I think the treaty has made us better.
Speaker 3: So we should continue to grapple with it. We should
Speaker 3: continue to wrest authors, but we should also take the
Speaker 3: issues case by case, issue by issue, and that's our approach.
Speaker 3: And so, you know, we dismantled the Malori Health Authority
Speaker 3: because it just wasn't going to deliver outcomes. We pushed
Speaker 3: actually the decision on local wards and local governments should
Speaker 3: be a local community decision, not mandated out of here,
Speaker 3: out of Wellington. We have believed that the Marine and
Speaker 3: Coastal Court decisions were wrong. We're inconsistent with the legislations
Speaker 3: subsequently been confirmed by the Supreme Court. But you know
Speaker 3: that's why we're legislating for that. You know, that's why
Speaker 3: we've pushed three waters back to local communities and also
Speaker 3: given them funding and financing mechanisms to make sure they
Speaker 3: manage those assets well. So that's the way to deal
Speaker 3: with it is wrestle with each individual issue that comes up,
Speaker 3: as we have done for one hundred and eighty four years,
Speaker 3: rather than have a simplistic bill. And then, most importantly, Chelsea,
Speaker 3: it's all about outcomes. And frankly, Mary want higher incomes.
Speaker 3: Mary want better quality housing, Mary want better education and
Speaker 3: constant their kids. They want better access to healthcare, and
Speaker 3: they want to be less victims of crime across New Zealand.
Speaker 3: So the things that we're focused on of rebuilding the economy,
Speaker 3: restoring law and order, delivering better health and education the
Speaker 3: same things that might want and we've got to deliver
Speaker 3: outcomes because frankly, six years of labor talk a lot
Speaker 3: didn't deliver for Mary at all.
Speaker 2: When do you think the deadline is when you can
Speaker 2: stop blaming the previous government?
Speaker 1: Do you think it's about now? Do you reckon you're
Speaker 1: still allowed to do that next year? I mean genuine question.
Speaker 3: Well, the reality is that what you were to doing
Speaker 3: a turnaround job here?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: I mean we are given six years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, so six years of mismanagement doesn't get sorted
Speaker 3: in twelve months. But you've got to under when you're
Speaker 3: doing a turnaround job, you've got to face up to
Speaker 3: the reality and the starting point. You may want to
Speaker 3: put your head in the sand and say it's all
Speaker 3: fine and not confront it, but you actually have to
Speaker 3: call out that reality and say this is where I'm
Speaker 3: starting on, this is the motivation or this is the
Speaker 3: problem that we now need to solve. We have if
Speaker 3: you think about it, we have violent crime up thirty
Speaker 3: three percent. We've gaged membership up fifty percent, we have
Speaker 3: a doubling of retail crime. We have fourfold increase in
Speaker 3: RAM raids. That's the starting point, that's what we inherited.
Speaker 3: Do we want to carry on and just let that
Speaker 3: carry on, or do you want to do something about it.
Speaker 3: We chose to do something about it. As a result,
Speaker 3: we now have victimizations down three percent. We have ram
Speaker 3: raids down sixty four percent. You and I don't talk
Speaker 3: about ram raids. That all its ease to do with
Speaker 3: the media every single day. We have a thirty percent
Speaker 3: increase in police out on the meat I said, total
Speaker 3: crimes down about three percent at this point. Now, we've
Speaker 3: got a lot longer to go, but we've done things
Speaker 3: game laws, serious young offenders, sentencing laws, police recruitment efforts.
Speaker 3: We're doing the but the actual tasks and the jobs
Speaker 3: and the actions you need to do in order to
Speaker 3: get air different set of outcomes.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining US, Prime Minister.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much. Bye.
Speaker 1: That's it for this.
Speaker 2: Episode of the Front Page. You can read more about
Speaker 2: today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdherld dot co
Speaker 2: dot nz.
Speaker 1: The Front Page is produced by Ethan.
Speaker 2: Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer.
Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.
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Speaker 2: behind the headlines,