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Speaker 1: Kiota.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Christopher Luxon

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Speaker 2: believes his so called Coalition of Chaos has defied the critics.

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Speaker 2: The Prime Minister is spending the remainder of twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four lauding his government's achievements. Inflation is under three percent,

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Speaker 2: a thirty percent increase of cops on the beat, twenty

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Speaker 2: six new cancer treatments, tax relief.

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Speaker 1: That's just a name a few.

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Speaker 2: But he is ending the year facing criticism over his

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Speaker 2: handling of the Treaty Principles Bill and for his corporate

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Speaker 2: way of talking and pole results show a deadlock.

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Speaker 1: Between the left and right coalitions.

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Speaker 2: So with a promise to get the country back on

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Speaker 2: track and a focus on rebuilding the economy, can Luxon

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Speaker 2: turn around the public criticism. Today on the front Page,

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Speaker 2: the Prime Minister joins us to discuss the year that's

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Speaker 2: been his hopes for twenty twenty five and if the

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Speaker 2: new year could see the government up the anti when

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Speaker 2: it comes to welcoming foreign investment. First off, Prime Minister,

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Speaker 2: how's the year gone?

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Speaker 3: Well? Look, I mean it's been a really tough year

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Speaker 3: for many New Zealanders as we've dealt with sort of

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Speaker 3: some of the economic challenges. But you know, to be

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Speaker 3: Prime Minister is just a huge privilege and an awesome responsibility,

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Speaker 3: and it's also been a very inspiring one and the

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Speaker 3: sense of you you get to see Kiwi through incredible

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Speaker 3: things across this country each and every day. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm proud of the year in terms of I feel

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Speaker 3: like we've formed a good team, We've made some good progress,

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Speaker 3: we're being able to lift your international relationships, been able

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Speaker 3: to a number of things, and I feel very very

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Speaker 3: optimistic about our future as I go forward from here.

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Speaker 1: What's been the biggest challenge so far?

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Speaker 3: I mean everything's challenging when you're Prime Minister in the

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Speaker 3: sense of if they were easy decisions, they would be

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Speaker 3: made somewhere else in the system, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: the difficult decisions come onto your desk and they're often

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Speaker 3: complex and a bit more layered than you may initially

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Speaker 3: think or observe from outside. So every day there's something

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Speaker 3: new and different and complex and challenging, and that's you know, personally,

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Speaker 3: that's what I enjoy, is that you're there to solve problems,

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Speaker 3: and you're there to make decisions and in the interests

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Speaker 3: of the country and trying to set it up for

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Speaker 3: long term success. And so there's no not one particular

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Speaker 3: thing per se. It's just that you know, every day

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Speaker 3: there's something different and complex to work your way through.

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Speaker 3: You know, how do you get in place the funding

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Speaker 3: that you need to spend money on health and education

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Speaker 3: when you might have a big interest bill at nine

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Speaker 3: billion dollars to pay. You know, it's those sorts of

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Speaker 3: challenges that we can counter each and every day.

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Speaker 2: You've faced a lot of criticism in recent weeks from

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Speaker 2: across the political divide. Are you paying attention to any

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Speaker 2: of that first off?

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Speaker 1: Or is that just noise to you?

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Speaker 3: There is criticism every day in this job, so you're

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Speaker 3: informed of it, but you're not consumed by it. But look,

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Speaker 3: I just say to you, look, you know, we feel

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Speaker 3: really good. We've great to see that our support and

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Speaker 3: the numbers that I see has actually improved over where

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Speaker 3: we were in the election. You know that means that

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Speaker 3: people used to say the country was hitting in the

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Speaker 3: wrong direction. Now people say the country's hitting the right direction.

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Speaker 3: They know it's been tough, but they know that we're

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Speaker 3: a government with a plan and we're having to face

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Speaker 3: up some really difficult choices, but we're working our way

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Speaker 3: through it well. So you know, it's pretty pretty good

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Speaker 3: when you think about a government twelve months into it.

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Speaker 3: To be ahead of where we were on election night

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Speaker 3: in public support as fantastic and I get out of

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Speaker 3: Wellington as quickly as possible. When you meet New Zealanders

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Speaker 3: all up and down this country, and yes it's been

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Speaker 3: challenging for many, but they can see that, you know,

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Speaker 3: their interest bills are coming down, their mortgages inflations come down,

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Speaker 3: our crime is starting to turn and come down. They

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Speaker 3: can see that we're trying to drive our education system

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Speaker 3: back to basics so our kids are set up for

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Speaker 3: success and not behind kids in Singapore or Australia or

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Speaker 3: somewhere else in the world. And we've got some real

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Speaker 3: investment going to healthcare and we've got to make sure

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Speaker 3: we work that hard to get improved outcomes for people.

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Speaker 3: We've got a long way to go, so you know,

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Speaker 3: we've got a lot of work ahead of us, but

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Speaker 3: in twelve months, you know, we're doing a big turnaround job.

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Speaker 3: We're getting you know, and we're getting get in the

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Speaker 3: country moving, which has been good. Wouldn't an economically literate

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Speaker 3: government have worked this out of it sooner? Jack? Jack, Jack,

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Speaker 3: I just say to you, it tells everyone about your

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Speaker 3: economic I just says it. Hang on, I haven't even

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Speaker 3: asked a question. What I'm saying to you is it

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Speaker 3: is challenging times when New Zealand. I'd say that I

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Speaker 3: would say to you that, Well, I just say to you,

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Speaker 3: we've seen I'll just say to you, under your tax

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Speaker 3: package what to say to you with relatives to the

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Speaker 3: rest of the population. But but what I say to you, Jack,

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Speaker 3: You're saying a lot of things to me, but you're

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Speaker 3: not actually we actually answered.

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Speaker 2: So I've heard that you acknowledge that you need to

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Speaker 2: work on your tendency for corporate speak. There's also been

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Speaker 2: some reaction to your use of the phrase what I

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Speaker 2: say to you is.

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Speaker 1: Are these things that you're going to be working on

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five?

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Speaker 3: Well, I haven't heard about the second one. But look,

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Speaker 3: what I say to you is, yeah, what I will

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Speaker 3: say to you is that I am from outside the

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Speaker 3: political system. You know, I'm not a career politician. And

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Speaker 3: that's a fantastic thing because right now is Island has

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Speaker 3: been in a huge economic mess, one that we haven't

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Speaker 3: seen for decades. And actually, I think my background, my

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Speaker 3: experience coming to politics in the way that I have

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Speaker 3: just four years ago and being Prime Minister and leading

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Speaker 3: a team to actually make sure we sought problems out

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Speaker 3: for people is exactly what New Zealand needs right now.

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Speaker 3: So if I get it, the Beltway and a lot

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Speaker 3: of people who are pundits and commentators and say whatever

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Speaker 3: they want, they've been saying that for four years since

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Speaker 3: I came to politics. Frankly, I'm informed about it, but

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Speaker 3: I'm not consumed by it because I know why I'm here,

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Speaker 3: because I choose to do this job. I chose to

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Speaker 3: come to politics because I think this is a fantastic

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Speaker 3: country with an awesome future, and I think I've got

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Speaker 3: something to offer.

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Speaker 1: We had Chris Hopkins on last week and he said.

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Speaker 3: I don't think a lot of New Zealanders think he's

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Speaker 3: a bad prime minister, and I think they've got good

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Speaker 3: good grounds for that.

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Speaker 1: What would you say to that? Was he a good pam?

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Speaker 3: He was a terrible prime minister. He took the keys

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Speaker 3: to the car, he drove it, at tremendous speed. Put

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Speaker 3: it into the ditch. We're hauling it out of the ditch,

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Speaker 3: getting it our right way up, and then we're moving

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Speaker 3: it forward. I mean, honestly, he was a terrible prime minister.

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Speaker 3: I mean, how do you increase government spending by eighty

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Speaker 3: four percent? How do you drive inflation to highs? How

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Speaker 3: do you have twelve interest rate rises that for the

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Speaker 3: average New Zealand I meant they had to find seven

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Speaker 3: hundred dollars a fortnite if they were lucky enough to

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Speaker 3: own a house. How do you spend more, borrow more,

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Speaker 3: tax more, hire more people and deliver worse outcomes in

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Speaker 3: every dimension? So you know, yeah, look, I mean, so

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Speaker 3: don't take lectures from crescip Cans with all due respect.

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Speaker 2: Well, speaking of the economy, how much credit do you

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Speaker 2: think the government deserves for how things have performed this year?

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Speaker 3: I mean, that is job number one for us as

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Speaker 3: to put financial discipline back into the government. Businesses have

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Speaker 3: had to do that over the last few years because

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Speaker 3: of the mismanagement from Chrysipkins team and himself. Families have

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Speaker 3: had to adjust their budgets and decide not to spend

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Speaker 3: money on things for their kids because of the mismanagement

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Speaker 3: from the previous government. You cannot spend, drive inflation, interest

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Speaker 3: rates up, put the economy into recession for the last

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Speaker 3: three years, and drive unemployment up. And that is the

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Speaker 3: legacy record of crucip Cans and Labour team. So you

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Speaker 3: know this government, we're fixing those things. We have to

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Speaker 3: go back and relearn some lessons that the country learned

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Speaker 3: thirty five years ago. You've got to have good financial management,

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Speaker 3: just like you doing your family budget, just like you

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Speaker 3: do in your small business. You've got it, then get

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Speaker 3: inflation down for people. It's now within the band under

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Speaker 3: three percent, which is fantastic. Because of that, and because

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Speaker 3: we've been good fiscal plan operators, you end up then

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Speaker 3: lowering your interest rates. That doesn't just happen. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: just miraculously sort of happen. It happens because there's a

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Speaker 3: plan and we're working our way through it. We now

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Speaker 3: have business confidence at a teen year high, we have

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Speaker 3: consumer confidence at a three year high, and so and

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Speaker 3: now we've got to focus on that translating into economic

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Speaker 3: growth and that obviously making sure that we keep people

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Speaker 3: in jobs and employment. Unemployment's the last thing and unemployment

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Speaker 3: sadly affects lower middle income News Islanders. And so if

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Speaker 3: you care about lower middle income working News Islanders, as

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Speaker 3: I do, as my government does, as my party does,

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Speaker 3: that's why you need to manage the economy well, because

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Speaker 3: when you don't and you take it for granted, you

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Speaker 3: end up with the mess that we inherited after six

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Speaker 3: years of a labor experiment that was horribly wrong.

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Speaker 2: Could there be an opportunity for New Zealand to welcome

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Speaker 2: more public private partnerships with the stipulation of the funds

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Speaker 2: are key we based. I mean I saw a figure

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Speaker 2: from Ossie and they're seeing something like one hundred and

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Speaker 2: sixty billion dollars a quarter in investments by super funds

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Speaker 2: into infrastructure alone. Imagine just half a percent of that,

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Speaker 2: we'd have a second Harbor bridge in Auckland in no time.

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Speaker 3: Right, Well, you're onto the right thing. We have major

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Speaker 3: challenges on infrastructure. We can't get things built, it takes

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Speaker 3: too long. And also we don't always we don't have

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Speaker 3: the financial capacity to fund it all from within government

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Speaker 3: for the infrastructure that we want to see. So there's

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Speaker 3: two things. You're right, Yes, we could use domestic pools

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Speaker 3: of capital more and will continue to look at that.

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Speaker 3: But the other thing, frankly, Chelsea, is that we also

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Speaker 3: need to make sure that we attract foreign investment to

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Speaker 3: New Zealand. New Zealand is thirty eight out of thirty

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Speaker 3: eight now in terms of being an attractive place for

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Speaker 3: big international superannuation funds all around the world, which has

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Speaker 3: lots of money in those funds looking for a home

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Speaker 3: to invest who are very open to investing in New

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Speaker 3: Zealand but don't because they think it takes too long,

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Speaker 3: it costs too much. And that's why things like our

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Speaker 3: fast tracked legislation have been important. That's why you're setting

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Speaker 3: a thirty year pipeline of infrastructure projects that are actually

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Speaker 3: laid out really clearly, like you see in New South

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Speaker 3: Wales and other parts of the world. All of those

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Speaker 3: things that we're putting in place are other things that

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Speaker 3: we need to do to make sure that we actually

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Speaker 3: move on and actually can access pools of capital from

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Speaker 3: overseas automistically to get things built quicker and faster in

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Speaker 3: New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: Well, what we really need though, is long term plans. Hey,

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Speaker 2: last time you're on the front page, you said more

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Speaker 2: cross party collaborations are needed when it comes to those

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Speaker 2: big infrastructure projects. Is that something that we could see,

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Speaker 2: say next year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we have been. What we've got to

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Speaker 3: do is work on a thirty year pipeline that you

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Speaker 3: should be an independent list of infrastructure projects for the

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Speaker 3: country that are the right things for us to be

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Speaker 3: doing at the moment. We get money together, we scrape

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Speaker 3: it all around, we put it together on one project,

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Speaker 3: we work really hard to try and get that project done,

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Speaker 3: and everything it takes too long, and everybod there's a

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Speaker 3: cost over because it's been badly managed partner by the

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Speaker 3: previous government. Think to needn hospital, think berries. And then

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Speaker 3: what we've got to do is have a longer term

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Speaker 3: pipeline of infrastructure projects and then have our city regional

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Speaker 3: deals and have an agency that actually knows how to

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Speaker 3: get the funding and financing in place for it. And

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Speaker 3: so that's the mechanism we're putting in place. I do

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Speaker 3: agree with you. I think it'd be fantastic to have

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Speaker 3: bipartisan support. And so even just on our new statement

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Speaker 3: around public private partnerships, you know, we've reached out to labor.

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Speaker 3: We've got Barbara Edmonds to come on board and actually

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Speaker 3: support that program as well. So that's a good development.

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Speaker 3: That's a good thing. You know, it shouldn't be as

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Speaker 3: politicized as it is in New Zealand. If you just

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Speaker 3: think about a project like Auckland light rail, which the

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Speaker 3: last government mismanaged so badly. You know, Montreal started a

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Speaker 3: project similar to that. They started it but later finished it.

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Speaker 3: Within five years people are on their light rail trains.

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Speaker 3: We spent two hundred and fifteen million dollars on it

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Speaker 3: and we still didn't know where we were we were

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Speaker 3: putting the tracks if we could ever get the tracks down.

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Speaker 3: So I mean we are terrible at it. You know,

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Speaker 3: Cambridge to Clearity road gets turned on off depending on

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Speaker 3: which government's in place. That is just basics. Building roads

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Speaker 3: is not difficult or complicated. It happens all around the world.

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Speaker 3: So we do have to manage infrastructure a much better

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Speaker 3: way going forward.

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Speaker 4: This is a damaging piece of legislation. This government, Christopher

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Speaker 4: Lutson is taking a recon ball to the work that

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Speaker 4: has been done by successive governments over the past fifty

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Speaker 4: years since the White Time You Tribunal was established. This

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Speaker 4: bill of would amount to the dictatorship of the majority

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Speaker 4: this parliament can it has passed racist laws in the past,

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Speaker 4: and Marty are still paying the price and we all

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Speaker 4: are still paying the price.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to the Treaty in School's Bill.

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Speaker 2: I know you're probably sick of talking about it, but

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Speaker 2: do you think voting against the bill at the second

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Speaker 2: reading is good enough? Because it seems like just the

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Speaker 2: mere existence of it has kickstarted a debate that will

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Speaker 2: never end and I mean Seema will no doubt bring

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Speaker 2: it up again in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 3: Well, what I say on that one is that you

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Speaker 3: have to understand that under Hipkins and a Ajourn and

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Speaker 3: when they went off into things like the Maori Health Authority,

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Speaker 3: when they went off and forced Mark Mary Wards onto

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Speaker 3: local governments from Central Wellington, when they started to talk

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Speaker 3: about co governance and spent one point two billion dollars

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Speaker 3: on three waters projects that didn't even go anywhere. You know,

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Speaker 3: all of that created a huge division and frustration within

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Speaker 3: New Zealand. And unlike Jim Bolter who took New Zealanders

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Speaker 3: on a journey and made the case for Treaty settlements,

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Speaker 3: there was no political capital spent or any effort to

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Speaker 3: take New Zealanders with them on that agenda. So going

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Speaker 3: into the last election, there was immense frustration, and that

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Speaker 3: frustration sits on both sides of that debate. We just

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Speaker 3: happened to think that that frustration, as legitimate as well be,

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Speaker 3: is not best served by a very simplistic Treaty Principles

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Speaker 3: bill that with the stroke of a peon overcomes one

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Speaker 3: hundred and eighty four years of debate and discussion. We

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Speaker 3: need to make sure these enders have equal rights. It's

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Speaker 3: a fundamental and we also need to make sure that

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Speaker 3: the Crown meets its obligations under the treaty and so

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Speaker 3: and that treaty process. We you know, we disagree on

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Speaker 3: the issues, but we stay committed and we stayed talking

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Speaker 3: to each other over the last one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 3: four years. We haven't agreed on everything over that period

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Speaker 3: of time, but I think the treaty has made us better.

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Speaker 3: So we should continue to grapple with it. We should

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Speaker 3: continue to wrest authors, but we should also take the

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Speaker 3: issues case by case, issue by issue, and that's our approach.

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Speaker 3: And so, you know, we dismantled the Malori Health Authority

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Speaker 3: because it just wasn't going to deliver outcomes. We pushed

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Speaker 3: actually the decision on local wards and local governments should

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Speaker 3: be a local community decision, not mandated out of here,

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Speaker 3: out of Wellington. We have believed that the Marine and

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Speaker 3: Coastal Court decisions were wrong. We're inconsistent with the legislations

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Speaker 3: subsequently been confirmed by the Supreme Court. But you know

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Speaker 3: that's why we're legislating for that. You know, that's why

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Speaker 3: we've pushed three waters back to local communities and also

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Speaker 3: given them funding and financing mechanisms to make sure they

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Speaker 3: manage those assets well. So that's the way to deal

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Speaker 3: with it is wrestle with each individual issue that comes up,

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Speaker 3: as we have done for one hundred and eighty four years,

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Speaker 3: rather than have a simplistic bill. And then, most importantly, Chelsea,

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Speaker 3: it's all about outcomes. And frankly, Mary want higher incomes.

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Speaker 3: Mary want better quality housing, Mary want better education and

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Speaker 3: constant their kids. They want better access to healthcare, and

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Speaker 3: they want to be less victims of crime across New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: So the things that we're focused on of rebuilding the economy,

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Speaker 3: restoring law and order, delivering better health and education the

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Speaker 3: same things that might want and we've got to deliver

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Speaker 3: outcomes because frankly, six years of labor talk a lot

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Speaker 3: didn't deliver for Mary at all.

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Speaker 2: When do you think the deadline is when you can

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Speaker 2: stop blaming the previous government?

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's about now? Do you reckon you're

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Speaker 1: still allowed to do that next year? I mean genuine question.

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Speaker 3: Well, the reality is that what you were to doing

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Speaker 3: a turnaround job here?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 1: I mean we are given six years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, so six years of mismanagement doesn't get sorted

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Speaker 3: in twelve months. But you've got to under when you're

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Speaker 3: doing a turnaround job, you've got to face up to

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Speaker 3: the reality and the starting point. You may want to

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Speaker 3: put your head in the sand and say it's all

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Speaker 3: fine and not confront it, but you actually have to

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Speaker 3: call out that reality and say this is where I'm

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Speaker 3: starting on, this is the motivation or this is the

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Speaker 3: problem that we now need to solve. We have if

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Speaker 3: you think about it, we have violent crime up thirty

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Speaker 3: three percent. We've gaged membership up fifty percent, we have

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Speaker 3: a doubling of retail crime. We have fourfold increase in

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Speaker 3: RAM raids. That's the starting point, that's what we inherited.

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Speaker 3: Do we want to carry on and just let that

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Speaker 3: carry on, or do you want to do something about it.

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Speaker 3: We chose to do something about it. As a result,

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Speaker 3: we now have victimizations down three percent. We have ram

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Speaker 3: raids down sixty four percent. You and I don't talk

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Speaker 3: about ram raids. That all its ease to do with

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Speaker 3: the media every single day. We have a thirty percent

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Speaker 3: increase in police out on the meat I said, total

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Speaker 3: crimes down about three percent at this point. Now, we've

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Speaker 3: got a lot longer to go, but we've done things

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Speaker 3: game laws, serious young offenders, sentencing laws, police recruitment efforts.

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Speaker 3: We're doing the but the actual tasks and the jobs

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Speaker 3: and the actions you need to do in order to

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Speaker 3: get air different set of outcomes.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining US, Prime Minister.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much. Bye.

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Speaker 1: That's it for this.

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Speaker 2: Episode of the Front Page. You can read more about

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Speaker 2: today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdherld dot co

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Speaker 2: dot nz.

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Speaker 1: The Front Page is produced by Ethan.

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Speaker 2: Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.

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Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you

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Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look

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Speaker 2: behind the headlines,