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Speaker 1: The ACT Party founder said Roger Douglas has thrown shade

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Speaker 1: at his own He's disappointed in the ACT Party's response

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Speaker 1: to the Weeek's bleak treasury forecast, saying he does ACT

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Speaker 1: doesn't have the right solutions for New Zealand's fiscal challenges.

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Speaker 1: This is the party that he founded. Instead, He's taken

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Speaker 1: a liking, taking a shining to Shane Jones's speech to

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Speaker 1: Parliament in response to the Hayfu numbers, where he looks

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Speaker 1: to industries which said growth as a solution.

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Speaker 2: Look no further than the massive group an export income

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Speaker 2: coming from the primary sector announced last week fisheries, AH, horticulture, up,

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Speaker 2: farming up, forestry increasing.

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Speaker 1: Now we ask David Seymour, the leader of the ACT Party,

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Speaker 1: if he wanted to come on to have a chat

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Speaker 1: with Sir Roger Douglas, but he declined a panel discussion.

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Speaker 1: So I'm joined by the ACT founder, Sir Roger Douglas.

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Speaker 1: He's with me this evening. Good evening, good evening, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being here. Why are you disappointed with ACT?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I formed a thirty years go and let

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Speaker 3: me quote a short extract from our founding document, The

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Speaker 3: question of money is particularly important at the moment. In

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Speaker 3: the immediate future, we are threatened to the largest debt

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Speaker 3: in our history, a debt that hasn't raased the public's

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Speaker 3: consciousness in any serious way. It is a debt that

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Speaker 3: the state owes all of us it's citizens for our

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Speaker 3: retirement pensions and our healthcare in retirement. Essentially, the deal

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Speaker 3: is this, we paying taxes. We pay taxes into the

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Speaker 3: system to fulfill our haalf of the social contract, and

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Speaker 3: between us and them, between us and the government, we

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Speaker 3: pay taxes. And when we are sick, the contract is

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Speaker 3: that the government will see look after it. When we

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Speaker 3: are old, the state will provide We who pay the

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Speaker 3: taxes have kept our part of the bargain. But when

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Speaker 3: we are old, does the state do its part? And

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Speaker 3: they are going about the waiting list and say, when

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Speaker 3: it comes to our retirement we are going to get

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Speaker 3: Are we going to get the care? The support that

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Speaker 3: our parents knew in their post war years? And that

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Speaker 3: basically we said, in other words, back thirty years ago,

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Speaker 3: when this document Common Censury Change was published, we predicted

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Speaker 3: that unless we took action to start individual savings account,

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Speaker 3: if we stayed with the pay as you go we

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Speaker 3: were going to go broke, and anyone who did simple

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Speaker 3: numbers three years, thirty years ago would have come, you know,

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Speaker 3: to the same conclusion. You could have got a smart

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Speaker 3: ten year old and they would But the government didn't

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Speaker 3: want to do that. No government, Well well here I

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Speaker 3: wanted to keep power.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But well as every government does, apart from one

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Speaker 1: that Roger Douglas is in. Because you're the only one

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Speaker 1: radical enough to say these things, aren't you? But why

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Speaker 1: pick on act at the moment, you know, why write

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Speaker 1: this about Well, I'm obviously.

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Speaker 3: Disappointed that the party I founded stopped following those policies.

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Speaker 1: And David Seymour says it's easier from afar sitting back

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Speaker 1: looking on harder when you're actually in there in government.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, that's true. But if you think about what

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Speaker 3: we did in nineteen eighty four, we had a cabinet

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Speaker 3: who said we are going to do the right thing

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Speaker 3: by New Zealand, We're going to do the right thing

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Speaker 3: even if we lose the next electure.

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Speaker 1: And you think that that's what we did, You think

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Speaker 1: that lot doesn't have the bulls, that don't have the

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Speaker 1: bulls to do that.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I'm saying I don't believe they they have.

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Speaker 3: And when I listened to that debate and listen to

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Speaker 3: the commentary, you know, I was so disappointed.

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Speaker 1: So how hard would you have to hacken too, spending

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Speaker 1: to you know, to actually make it?

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Speaker 3: Well. I published the answers to this back there thirty

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Speaker 3: years ago. We published a paper ten years ago with

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Speaker 3: Robert McCulloch. We published a paper, detailed paper with all

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Speaker 3: the numbers you've got. What about answer now?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, how much would you need to cut?

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Speaker 1: Twenty five thirty.

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Speaker 3: That's what Treasury do, but I don't believe we have

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Speaker 3: to do that. My answer is this, essentially we make

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Speaker 3: the and this is why I get annoyed with that,

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Speaker 3: because David says these ideas are rubbish anyway, but it'll

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Speaker 3: take a lot of time. I would have attacked the

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Speaker 3: first fifty three thousand, five hundred tax free. Of the saving,

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Speaker 3: nine thousand and six thousand would go into SUMER, so

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Speaker 3: that if you're an eighteen year old, you'd retire with

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Speaker 3: at least a million dollars in today's terms about four

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Speaker 3: million dollars in dollars of the day, So.

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Speaker 1: Basically compulsory, compulsory savings and no and no state super

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Speaker 1: because that was well you take would take that off

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Speaker 1: the books because it's going to customs.

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Speaker 3: It would it would take it all off and you

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Speaker 3: would save about three hundred billion and forty forty years tied.

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Speaker 3: And it does cost your rye. And let me tell

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Speaker 3: you what sacrifices you and everyone else have to pass

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Speaker 3: to make the key we save a tax break, I

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Speaker 3: get rid of that. That's a thousand people are saving

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Speaker 3: six seven They don't need that. I'd use the two

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Speaker 3: super fund income, which is about five thousand million.

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Speaker 1: We can't go, Sir Roger. Sir Roger, I I can't

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Speaker 1: go through your whole list. I can't get to your

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Speaker 1: whole list tonight. But even though I know it's a

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Speaker 1: good one, but I just just one final word from

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Speaker 1: you on on David Seymour. You know you've given them

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Speaker 1: a bit of a serve, but at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, you're still going to vote Act, don't you.

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Speaker 3: Well, what's my option? They keep my vote because they're

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Speaker 3: better than the the other doesn't make them perfect.

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Speaker 1: Sir Roger Douglas, thank you very much for your time.

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