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Speaker 1: Now staying with rugby though less morbids. We're going to

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Speaker 1: speak to the Rugby Players Union. This is the New

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Speaker 1: Zealand Rugby Players Association, Rob Nichols, the CEO there. Because

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Speaker 1: Raser Scott Robertson, the coach of the All Blacks, he's

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Speaker 1: done a bit of a u turn this on the

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Speaker 1: decision by n z are currently players cannot be selected

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Speaker 1: to play for the All Blacks if they are playing

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Speaker 1: off shore. Now Robertson didn't agree with that, Now he

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Speaker 1: does agree with that. What's up with that? Rob Nichols Here?

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Speaker 2: Hi, Rob, Good afternoon, Ryan. What are reason this is about? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Look, I think it's there's been a lot of conjecture

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Speaker 3: and discussion around where Raser sat on this and where

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Speaker 3: New Zealand Rugby were at. To be honest, I being

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Speaker 3: part of the conversations all the day along and they've

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Speaker 3: kind of been on the same page and they're just

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Speaker 3: coming out I think to reaffirm the.

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Speaker 2: Fact that they are and that where you all are.

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Speaker 3: The starting point, as you said, is that you have

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Speaker 3: to be playing in New Zealand if you want to

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Speaker 3: be eligible for teams in black. But we have effectively

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Speaker 3: a regulation or a guideline around that that can say, well,

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Speaker 3: in exceptional circumstances, we can make exceptions and you've seen

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Speaker 3: us do that over the years, display a bit of

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Speaker 3: flexibility around the comments and things like that. But the

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Speaker 3: underlying ethos of all of that was, you know, it

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Speaker 3: was conveyed to players that are earned the right to serve.

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Speaker 3: Time in the black Jersey delivered great value and they

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Speaker 3: were still really committed to that black jersey and wanting

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Speaker 3: to come back and be a.

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Speaker 2: Part of it. So you know, we got we've got

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Speaker 2: a bit of flexibility there.

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Speaker 3: But basically it's everyone just saying we're not changing the

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Speaker 3: Jordi Barrett.

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Speaker 1: You mean, like Jordi Barrett over in Island. That's flexibility exactly.

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Speaker 1: But it's not that flexible.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it.

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Speaker 1: I mean you can't just up and play and then

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Speaker 1: come back and flit in between like the South Africans.

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Speaker 2: No, it's absolutely not that, and we don't want that.

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Speaker 3: Why not, Well, I think to answer the question, I

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Speaker 3: think you kind of go back to the purpose of

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Speaker 3: rugby in New Zealand and if you say, well, it's

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Speaker 3: there to play its role within sport to personally develop people,

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Speaker 3: character a sense of community, social cohesion, connection, the sense

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Speaker 3: of belonging.

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Speaker 2: That you get out of sport, and rugby has played.

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Speaker 3: A really really strong role with the New Zealand's evolution

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Speaker 3: over a long long period of time. And respect of that,

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Speaker 3: I think rugby club's relationships, marriages, all that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 3: and then you prove through to those that are good

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Speaker 3: enough represent us on the global stage and fill us

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Speaker 3: with pride and inspiration. And to a certain extent, when

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Speaker 3: you look at New Zealand globally and anyone who travels overseas,

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Speaker 3: rugby kind of underpins our identity a little bit.

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Speaker 2: It's something we should be pretty proud.

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Speaker 1: Cody understand all that. But for the players, it's about

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Speaker 1: the money, isn't it. They're not going to be able

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Speaker 1: to get anose coin.

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Speaker 3: No, you're missing the point and you're missing that it's

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Speaker 3: about more than just how I mean, clearly it's their profession.

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Speaker 3: But the point I'm making is that as custodians the

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Speaker 3: game in this country, we don't want to see that

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Speaker 3: rugby lose its place with the New Zealand's identity. We

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Speaker 3: want the community game to flourish, and to do that

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Speaker 3: you need to provide your inspirational pathway to do that.

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Speaker 3: We need to keep professional rugby professional in New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: And if you allow players to leave at fifteen, sixteen,

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Speaker 3: seventeen years of age play their rugby overseas in these

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Speaker 3: competitions that do have more money and will have the

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Speaker 3: ability to attract players away and still represent the all backs,

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Speaker 3: the pathway, the professional pathway for the game of this

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Speaker 3: country will get lost. You lose that, you lose the

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Speaker 3: ability to continue to have rugby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you see where I'm going with this.

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Speaker 1: I get where you're going, But I think you have

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Speaker 1: to concede that that does come at a financial cost

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Speaker 1: to those players who would today like to upsticks, go

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Speaker 1: play overseas and come back.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: There is an opportunity cost to what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: You're sacrificing an.

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Speaker 1: Individual of sacrificing for the greater good, that's what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's not a sacrifice.

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Speaker 3: I mean like professional support is about choices, right, You

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Speaker 3: choose to slay professional sport. You don't annowling, which you

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Speaker 3: don't sacrifice going to the part of you choose not

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Speaker 3: to because you want something else more and I think

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Speaker 3: that's a really important ethos. There's something about the way

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Speaker 3: in which New Zealand rugbyas maintain this position of a

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Speaker 3: long period of time of being the best, you know,

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Speaker 3: and it comes down a lot to the coaching, to

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Speaker 3: the environments where there's just this desire to be the best.

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Speaker 3: And it starts when the kids are really young and

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Speaker 3: they're coming through the grades. You know, when they pull

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Speaker 3: on that beak jersey, they want to be the best.

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Speaker 3: And to be the best, you want to compete with

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Speaker 3: the best and be coached by the best. And so

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Speaker 3: the ability for us to keep players in this country,

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Speaker 3: keep the high performance pathways, keep them wanting to perform

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Speaker 3: for the country and stay connected. Players that want to

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Speaker 3: be the best and succeed they want to be a

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Speaker 3: part of that. And that's so you might say, well,

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Speaker 3: you're setting sacrificing money, but actually, what I'm getting in return,

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Speaker 3: I'm getting to be the best.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 3: I'm in the right place to be the best I possibly.

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Speaker 2: Can get a run longer term.

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Speaker 1: That's a bit understand. Thank you very much for explaining.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate your time. Rob Nickel, who's the TV executive at

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Speaker 1: Chick of executive rather at the Rugby Players Association.

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Speaker 3: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drave, listen live to

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Speaker 3: news talks.

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Speaker 2: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 2: on Iheard Radio