WEBVTT - How would Labour balance the books? 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.480 Kyoder and welcome to Shared Lunch, brought to you by Chairsa's. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.159 My name's Sonia Williams, and I'm one of the co 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.160 founders and co CEOs at chairs EA's and we're on 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.240 a mission to create financial empowerment for everyone, which is 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:17.520 a big part of why we do these conversations. It's 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:19.840 a chance to pick behind the curtain of what's going 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.680 on in our world today. We're speaking to Labour's finance 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:25.599 spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.560 The politics is the hard stuff to be friend. Ultimately 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.480 you break it down. It's a Greek word. It's about people. 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:33.400 So who is Barbara Edmonds? 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.800 I was brought up in a family that didn't have 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:41.120 much circumstances happened like my mom passed away when I 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.680 was four. Dad was a widower with four children under 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:45.559 the ages of eleven. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.400 What's your vision for the future of Malta. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.760 And that's a big question, I mean, and I know 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:52.760 it's a big question. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.640 Before we get started, here's some important information. 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.800 Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.080 start with. We reckon in talking to a licensed financial advisor. 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.200 We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.160 invest everything you're about to see and here is current 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:10.160 at the time of recording. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.520 Well, welcome Barbra, Thanksanks having here. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.560 Ton of for lover. If you're quite honest, thank you. 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.720 Oh yeah, well we stoke that you're here. So well, 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.960 first we'll talk about you. You've experienced a lot in life. 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:26.559 You've dabbled in physiotherapy and insurance before completing joint law 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:31.160 and arts degrees. You're a parent of eight children, keep 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.080 me busy, and we're a public servant before becoming MP 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.520 of the Mana electorate in twenty twenty. Is there anything 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:40.720 else you'd like to add or well done? 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.160 Good good, good work, you know, staff for the researcher. 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:44.720 Yeah. 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.000 I mean I've had a varied life before coming into politics, 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:52.080 and if I'm really fair, actually having that varied life 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:56.800 and different experiences just makes you a bit more I think, 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.400 centered and grounded in what you want to achieve while 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.400 you're there here and now. 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.040 Yeah, now you are a politician. What does that mean? 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.040 The politics is the hard stuff to me, Frank, I 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:13.760 find that for me politics ultimately and this is the 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.000 geeker me you break it down. It's a Greek word. 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.799 It's about people. And if I look through a lot 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.080 of the commentary that I do, whether it's on a 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.280 podcast or whether it's a media interview, or it's in 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:29.440 the way that I do policy decisions, Ultimately I'm looking 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:33.160 through that sort of decision and thinking about what's the 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.880 impact on people, who are the winners, who are the losers, 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.239 where are the unintended consequences as part of that decision making. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.760 So politics in some ways comes easier to me because 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.000 I always look through things about the people lens. But 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:52.200 at the same time, that's sort of debating adversarial side. Yeah, 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:53.799 I'm trying to hit my straps on. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:55.840 It because that's a big part of it too. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.480 Oh yeah, it's massive. It's massive. And the great thing is, 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.839 for the most part in New Zealand, we don't take 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.120 it personally, where you know, we're having a debate of 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:10.320 ideas and having a debate of decisions as opposed to 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.480 attacking one another as politicians. I think if we can 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.760 keep it that way in New Zealand, then we're going 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:17.679 to be Okay. 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.320 Yeah, that's great, and we you know, we're all for 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.160 creating empowerment and that's part of you know, part of 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.400 that is taking control of your financial future yourself. And 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.760 I think when it comes to politicians, and you know, 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.000 we live in a democracy, and so I think learning 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.600 you know from you, like, how do politicians shape the 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:36.360 lives of Kiwi? 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.680 Every way, every shape and form, every decision, whether it's 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.680 going to impact on a person straight away or whether 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:49.720 it's later on down the line, every decision that policy makers, 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.760 not just the politicians who are in government, but also 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.760 like for example, my role is opposition to highlight perhaps 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.120 where there's errors or where things need to be a 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:04.440 bit further, be pushed a bit further. We impact everyday lives, 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.520 just the differences though for those in the general public 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.400 they might not think that it affects their everyday lives, 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.240 but ultimately the money you get in your hand at 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.680 the end of the week, you know, with your pay packet, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.680 that's been impacted by politicians' decisions. 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.039 Yeah, so what tools do you have to work with 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:23.960 to shape those decisions? 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:29.880 Some life experience. I was brought up in a family 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.640 that didn't have much and it was very much because 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.359 circumstances happened, like my mom passed away when I was four. 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.799 Dad was a widower with four children. Under the ages 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.200 of eleven at the age of forty, you know, and 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.600 Mum was thirty five when she died. So growing up 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.239 my father was an amazing man and loved my dad 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.359 even when he brings me at random times. Learnt that 0:04:54.000 --> 0:05:00.640 sometimes money isn't necessarily an abundance, but you don't have 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.839 with money, you can have with time. So my father 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:08.360 taught me a whole thing a lot around community service. Because, 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.000 for example, my dad sent us to really great schools 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:16.159 on Awklands North Shore. They weren't cheap schools, they were integrated, 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.800 they were Catholic schools. My dad was paying off our 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.080 school fees for ten years after I had finished. He 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.160 had struck that deal with the school to pay off 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.279 the school fees because his wider purpose was making sure 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.400 that we had a good education despite what had happened 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.680 to mum passing away. But what my dad didn't have 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.720 in money, he gave in time. So he was that dad, 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.520 you know. Eventually on the board of trustees. He was 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.360 the father that the school went to when they were 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.680 having problems with Pacific families and children. My dad would 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.000 advise them on that. He's also the one driving the 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.080 school van going to pick up goods and stuff and 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.240 fruit and veggies from all the different suppliers to sell 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.279 at the school fair. So I learned really quickly that 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.520 sometimes money isn't everything because you don't have much, but 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.799 actually what you have in abundance of is your time 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.119 and being really purposeful with that time. 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:13.240 And so when you think of what life's like for Kiwi, now, Howard, 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.520 what are you seeing around people in their financial situation? 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:22.960 Really tough? I am seeing coming through my office every 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.040 day in Pottydoer, so I have an electro office and 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.800 Pottydoer one of my two officers. I am hearing people 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.839 like I was at netball on Saturday and a couple 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.159 of people said to me, like they've never experienced it 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:38.200 this tough. It is really hard for a group of 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:42.520 people out there who are struggling that despite being working 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.320 or working or having one or two jobs, sometimes three, 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.240 that they're struggling just to make ends meet. So we've 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.160 just had recent inflation figures come out and you can 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.880 see where that problem is is because when inflation is 0:06:55.960 --> 0:07:01.760 high on food, on rates, on insurance, on energy, those 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.120 are the core basics for what any family or any 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:10.560 person needs to live a life. So it's really really 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:11.200 tough out there. 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.600 What do you think that we can be doing better? 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.280 When I speak to businesses in particular, I'm asking them 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:20.720 to think about how they give back. A lot of 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.720 them know they work on a social license and a 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.120 lot of them are doing some great programs to support 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:32.360 community organizations. I believe as the role of government at 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.360 a time when the economic cycle is on a low, 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.680 so as the private sector pulls back, that's when the 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.320 public sector pushes forward. So that's the timing of investment 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.920 I think is really important right now. But we're seeing 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.760 a whole bunch of kiwis, you know, a planeload a 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.920 day leaving New Zealand because they think that the grass 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.520 is green, are somewhere else, And to be fair to them, 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.760 yes they will get better wages in Australia, but that's 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.600 not what we want. The concern for me is that 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.760 who is leaving and we're starting to see that it's 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.240 really that workforce is starting to move with their feet. 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.800 And my concern is that whenever labor decides to whenever 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.280 we win and we take over the books, is we're 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.600 going to have to rebuild some of that capability that 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.920 we are losing, particularly for example, in the infrastructure and 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.880 construction space, where there's been a huge loss of jobs 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.600 or roles. So it's a big piece of work that 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.520 we have to be mindful of. But also if we're 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.319 not connected to our communities, we have no idea as politicians, 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:37.800 and really we shouldn't be in that space if we're 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.960 not connected to the communities and the people that we're serving. 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:48.040 So the broad brush cut right across all agencies is 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.600 my view, not a prudent approach. When you're, for example, 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.440 a business and you know if times are tough and 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.000 you want to cut back spending, you don't necessarily cut 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:03.200 back across units. You think, actually, if I put a 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.440 bit more of my money in this unit, it means 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.000 I can produce a bit more goods because I know 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.240 that that element of my business is doing really well 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.120 or is returning better than what other elements of my 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:21.480 business are. So the broadbush just cut everything, I think 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:26.640 was very cruel. Where the government should focus on is one, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.720 services to community. We know people are doing it tough, 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.240 so removing areas that make it easier for people to 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.280 either get to work, get their kids to school, make 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.080 them healthier, be being able to access prescription fees, etc. 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.040 Those are the areas that I would keep in if 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.360 I was the Minister of Finance, because I know that 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.680 it has a return to the community in which a 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:54.760 service area where I wouldn't have done though, is taken 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.440 money from one area and then put it in areas 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:04.600 where there is less productive activity, for example gas subsidies 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.240 or putting it through a tax break for tobacco companies 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:14.240 for e cigarettes. So cuts have not been great because 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.800 they've been quite blunt, they've been quite cruel, and they 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.040 haven't been considered because as much as the government has 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.840 said it's not going to cut back on frontline services, 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.760 that's so not what we're hearing. And when you see 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:32.240 their social issues such as growing homelessness, jobs being lost. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.800 In the infrastructure specter a sector, those are the areas 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.199 that you want to keep investing in, which is continuing 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.480 to build houses, continuing to invest in infrastructure projects because 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:46.200 that has a longer first, longer term return, but second 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.559 it keeps the economy ticking over because there's certainty for 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.080 these big you know, multimillion dollar you know sometimes billion 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.920 dollar projects, which means that the money is still in 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.840 the economy from my perspective, the cuts have been cruel. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.319 They haven't been considered enough. And if Labor comes in again, 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.680 it's about looking at everything on the table, not stopping 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.400 and starting infrastructure projects like we've seen in the last 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:14.040 eighteen months. And it's about our community, our services to community. 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.280 Where do we need to strengthen those areas in order 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.600 to able to have a more functioning society because everybody 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:21.480 is being looked after. 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.240 And so in your time in Parliament you're an advisor 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.560 and you've worked under both the National and the Labor Party, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:33.880 so you've seen different views. And now you're not only 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.000 the Finance in Economy spokesposting for Labor, but you've now 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.400 taken on a new portfolio, savings and investing. Why was 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:41.920 that role created and can you tell us a bit 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:42.319 about that. 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.359 It's really a good sign post for where our focuses 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.559 that we will take to the next election. Savings an investment. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.920 We know that some of the best policies that that 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:57.480 has survived governments as they come and go. With some 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.800 of Labour's policies such as care we Saber the Superfund, 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.719 So for us we know with Kiwi Saber there is 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.880 some unfinished business. There are some areas that we want 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.800 to really look at in relation to how do we 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.600 increase the uptake of kei we saber, how do we 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.040 support both employers and employees to contribute a bit more. 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.679 Where is the iniquity in ki we saber? And it's 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.440 the same with investment again, being able to have income 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.120 that's of a sufficient level that you can actually choose 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.600 to invest. That's a really important part of what Labour 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.520 wants to offer in the next election. 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.040 So we started chairs eas to try and create more 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.520 opportunities for key we to grow their wealth outside but 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:43.679 also alongside property. What's your view on how that's playing 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.760 out or how that plays out for people being able 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:47.760 to invest in different things. 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.600 Thank you as as a person who grew up thinking 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:54.880 that owning your own home is the only way to 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.600 wealth or working your way to wealth was the only way. 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:03.040 Thank you so much because it provides an opportunity for 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.080 and I'd say my children who actually have a Chezy's account, 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.240 for my children to do access something that doesn't isn't 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.960 just this big beast of a trading thing that happens 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.400 on Wall Street or you know, down the road here 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:21.400 in Wellington at our stock market. It gives choices and 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.120 that you don't just have to invest in land. You know, 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.720 when I speak to the index, I speak to the 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.640 indid X, they talk about the returns through equities as 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.000 just as the returns are just as good as land 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.920 return but it's not that accessible. And so Chezy's has 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:43.080 definitely opened up the opportunity for anybody and everybody to 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:47.360 be able to access a market which probably traditionally was 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:52.120 inaccessible to everybody. So yeah, huge he to you all 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:52.480 for that. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.560 Thank you. How do you see kind of money flowing 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:57.800 into those businesses? 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.960 It's so important because it all so there's an issue 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.200 with New Zealand and the way that we invest in 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:09.439 land and that there is an it's almost an automatic 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:11.640 like land is going to give you the return. But 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.920 as a result, it means that our economy is very 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.880 much based off people investing in what is a less 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.400 productive part of the economy, whereas if we're investing in 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.560 shares or in equities or in you know, basically the 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.240 capital that businesses will be able to access because people 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.840 are backing them, it means they can grow more jobs, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.920 they can do more things, they can create more widgets 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:41.840 or innovate more so that they call it. There's a 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.880 technical word for it, but basically that turning of the 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.280 mind to thinking I don't just have to invest in land. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.160 I can have another option to invest and it's easy 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.240 to invest in that. That is a great mindset for 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.080 New Zealand future investors will investors now to have and 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.520 it's a mindset that through a platform like Chasis, all 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:08.000 through platforms that allow for crowdsourcing or crowdfunding, it allows 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:09.640 people to have easier access to it. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.920 And so you've already been the Minister for Economic Development 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.800 and Associate Minister of Finance, but not for long though. 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:18.640 Did you feel like you got enough time to sink 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:19.560 your teeth into it? 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.840 Yeah, definitely not want to do so. I was a 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.840 minister my first term, so I got it in twenty 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.800 twenty and then in twenty twenty three, just under our 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.120 durn step down and Chris Hipkins was nominated through our 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.360 party to be the leader, he came Prime Minister. I 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.000 was a minister for ten months. So within that ten 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:42.320 months I had nine portfolios, so drop some, pick some up, 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.040 you know, and then others I carried through. Definitely not 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.800 enough time at that stage of an electoral cycle. Your 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.360 job there is just to make sure that the pathways 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.840 that has been decided probably about eighteen months beforehand is 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.640 you know, continuing. So not enough time and I'm hoping 0:15:58.640 --> 0:15:59.960 the next time I get it and We'll have plenty 0:15:59.960 --> 0:16:02.200 of time to do the things that I want to do. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.440 Yeah, so you are in the running to be the 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.000 Finance minister at the next election. What would a Barbara 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.120 Edmunds economic plan look like? 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.000 And Barbara Edmunds economic plan would probably look at some 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.880 key sectors in the economy, think about where is New 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.560 Zealand's competitive advantage. If it requires us putting something on 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.840 a boat or on a plane, then we've lost that 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:30.360 advantage given where we are geographically. And there's been a 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.040 lot of commentary around why New Zealand's productivity is low. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:39.000 And my very first speech as the Finance spokesperson seems 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.000 like ages ago, but it was just last year. Beginning 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.720 of last year, I talked about productivity will be our focus, 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.240 not just on the productive side, thinking where are our 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.800 competitive advantage areas, but also we know energy is huge. 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.120 Energy is basically underpins any of that productive sector. We 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.320 don't have sufficient supply of energy, then we get what's 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.480 happened in the last year with factories closing down. The 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:08.000 other major focus for me is the human capability of that. 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.680 What are the skill sets that we need for jobs 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.600 of now, for jobs of the future, and what's coming 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.240 towards us, whether it's AI, whether it's other technology changes, 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:23.240 whether it's geopolitical changes. That ensures that we have a 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:27.879 workforce that is able to build, develop and create the 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.520 society we want to thrive here in New Zealand. 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.919 Well, when you talk about competitive advantage of New Zealand, 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:35.959 you know, what are the things that are popping up 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:36.479 for you? 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:41.000 Renewable energy. We clearly have high sources of renewable energy. 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.400 There's still a percentage there that will need to work 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:48.520 through and the transition through that. There's also the really 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.960 great thing about New Zealand and I believe it's our 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.240 superpower to the world and that's our marty economy. The 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.320 fact that our MARDI businesses here in New Zealand is 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.560 the fastest growing sector. I think we need to unlock 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.760 some of the issues there to allow them to access 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.840 their asset base. So, for example, to today, Fenoa is 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:09.800 an area that we're keeping a close eye where the 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.960 government looks too to be able to unlock Mardi Land 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.920 so it can be used to its potential. The other 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.280 major issue, and which is why I'm so glad that 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.680 Chippy made it or Chris Sipkins made it a portfolio, 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.280 is the creative economy. The creative economy is not just 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.280 the things that make us feel good and the social 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.960 cohesion benefits that come with that. It's also the things 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.480 that Keywis are so good about good at doing, which 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.639 is the dreaming and then the innovating to develop it, 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:40.760 to make it a thing, to be able to make 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.720 things easier for us. So the creative economy does include AI, 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.520 It does include research and development, it does include science 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:51.320 and innovation. But then it also includes the gaming sector, 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.440 which we've seen you through a little bit of support 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.480 previously in twenty twenty three, they have grown into quite 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.920 a competitive sector. So those are some of the key 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.119 competitive advantages that we're actively looking at for policies in 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:03.800 those spaces. 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.000 And then on AI, like, what are you saying as 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.320 some of the opportunities for alto are in that. 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.680 I don't know about. Most people buy use AI every day, 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.440 and when you're in opposition and you have low resources. 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.960 AI is a great tool because it's always like another 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:23.800 person that's helping you formulate the structure of ideas. And 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.080 then you do need the human element to make sure 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.879 that it's been quality reviewed, that it's you know, the 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.800 references that it brings up are actually accurate or not. 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:33.840 And so you do need to have that human at 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.200 the end of that assessment period. But AI has huge 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.880 opportunities for us both here, I mean in countries around 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.639 the world. Corporates are already using it. It's about making 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.440 sure that we bring everyone on that AI journey because 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.160 we already have a digital divide here in New Zealand. 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:54.760 And if you haven't spoken to edit or La f Aili, 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.960 she is New Zealander Young New Zealander of the Year. 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.280 She's been working in the last couple of year years 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.720 around trying to bring together that digital divide, particularly for 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.960 Pacific people. But we have a large group of people 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.760 who are being left behind on the digital space. We 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:11.760 need to bring them with it, and we also need 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.159 to bring AI with it. It also provides us an 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.200 opportunity to think about what are the jobs of the future. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.520 As AI starts to. You know, some people will say, 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.239 we'll start to take some jobs. I'm thinking about if 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.040 I was a law graduate, you know, whether I'd still 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:27.960 have a job. But we have to think about what 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.680 actually a law graduate might not have to do all 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.800 the research that's involved in the due diligence, but actually 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.680 the law graduates their job now is to do the 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.040 quality assurance from it. So it does. There is definite 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:43.840 opportunities in AI, but we need to make sure that 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.360 everybody has access to those opportunities too. 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.320 Another on the technical side, we see crypto, you know, 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.919 obviously being talked about a lot. How does that affect 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:55.680 your future thinking or do you think about that? 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.200 No matter how I personally feel about crypto or how 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.760 other people may be personally feel about crypto, it's here 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:04.520 and I think, you know, I've had a lot of 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.040 conversations over the last couple of years, and there's a 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:12.760 lot of skepticism around cryptocurrencies from sort of more traditional areas. 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.560 The thing that makes me wake up though, to the 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:21.080 role of cryptocurrency is that we have the president of 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.600 the first world talking about cryptocurrency and whether that's for 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:29.000 their benefit or not, and also putting it through legislation 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:35.399 in their legislature in America, but also in trade deals 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:39.920 there is references to crypto currency. I think there needs 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:43.080 to be a greater understanding that Yes, okay, if you 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:47.640 believe it's speculatory, that's that's your gig. But don't let 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.479 that be a barrier to understanding crypto and what are 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:56.720 the regulatory settings for crypto because I think of lawmakers 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:00.680 just push it aside as that's just a speculator. While 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:05.560 back in the late eighteen hundreds, so was land was speculatory, 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:10.480 so was shares speculatory. You know, there's always a speculative 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.960 market for investment in assets. But ultimately, as decision makers, 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.000 you need to probably take a serious look that if 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.120 the president of the first world is taking it seriously, 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.280 then our settings right here in New Zealand. 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.719