1 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Kyoder and welcome to Shared Lunch, brought to you by Chairsa's. 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,159 Speaker 1: My name's Sonia Williams, and I'm one of the co 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: founders and co CEOs at chairs EA's and we're on 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: a mission to create financial empowerment for everyone, which is 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: a big part of why we do these conversations. It's 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: a chance to pick behind the curtain of what's going 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: on in our world today. We're speaking to Labour's finance 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 2: The politics is the hard stuff to be friend. Ultimately 10 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 2: you break it down. It's a Greek word. It's about people. 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: So who is Barbara Edmonds? 12 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: I was brought up in a family that didn't have 13 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: much circumstances happened like my mom passed away when I 14 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: was four. Dad was a widower with four children under 15 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 2: the ages of eleven. 16 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: What's your vision for the future of Malta. 17 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: And that's a big question, I mean, and I know 18 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: it's a big question. 19 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: Before we get started, here's some important information. 20 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 21 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 3: start with. We reckon in talking to a licensed financial advisor. 22 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 3: We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to 23 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 3: invest everything you're about to see and here is current 24 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 3: at the time of recording. 25 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: Well, welcome Barbra, Thanksanks having here. 26 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: Ton of for lover. If you're quite honest, thank you. 27 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well we stoke that you're here. So well, 28 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: first we'll talk about you. You've experienced a lot in life. 29 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 1: You've dabbled in physiotherapy and insurance before completing joint law 30 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: and arts degrees. You're a parent of eight children, keep 31 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: me busy, and we're a public servant before becoming MP 32 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: of the Mana electorate in twenty twenty. Is there anything 33 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: else you'd like to add or well done? 34 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 2: Good good, good work, you know, staff for the researcher. 35 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 36 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: I mean I've had a varied life before coming into politics, 37 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: and if I'm really fair, actually having that varied life 38 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: and different experiences just makes you a bit more I think, 39 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: centered and grounded in what you want to achieve while 40 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: you're there here and now. 41 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, now you are a politician. What does that mean? 42 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: The politics is the hard stuff to me, Frank, I 43 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: find that for me politics ultimately and this is the 44 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: geeker me you break it down. It's a Greek word. 45 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 2: It's about people. And if I look through a lot 46 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: of the commentary that I do, whether it's on a 47 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: podcast or whether it's a media interview, or it's in 48 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: the way that I do policy decisions, Ultimately I'm looking 49 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: through that sort of decision and thinking about what's the 50 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: impact on people, who are the winners, who are the losers, 51 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 2: where are the unintended consequences as part of that decision making. 52 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: So politics in some ways comes easier to me because 53 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: I always look through things about the people lens. But 54 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: at the same time, that's sort of debating adversarial side. Yeah, 55 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 2: I'm trying to hit my straps on. 56 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: It because that's a big part of it too. 57 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's massive. It's massive. And the great thing is, 58 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,839 Speaker 2: for the most part in New Zealand, we don't take 59 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 2: it personally, where you know, we're having a debate of 60 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: ideas and having a debate of decisions as opposed to 61 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: attacking one another as politicians. I think if we can 62 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: keep it that way in New Zealand, then we're going 63 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 2: to be Okay. 64 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, and we you know, we're all for 65 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: creating empowerment and that's part of you know, part of 66 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: that is taking control of your financial future yourself. And 67 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: I think when it comes to politicians, and you know, 68 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: we live in a democracy, and so I think learning 69 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: you know from you, like, how do politicians shape the 70 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: lives of Kiwi? 71 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: Every way, every shape and form, every decision, whether it's 72 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: going to impact on a person straight away or whether 73 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: it's later on down the line, every decision that policy makers, 74 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: not just the politicians who are in government, but also 75 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: like for example, my role is opposition to highlight perhaps 76 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: where there's errors or where things need to be a 77 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: bit further, be pushed a bit further. We impact everyday lives, 78 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: just the differences though for those in the general public 79 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: they might not think that it affects their everyday lives, 80 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: but ultimately the money you get in your hand at 81 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 2: the end of the week, you know, with your pay packet, 82 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: that's been impacted by politicians' decisions. 83 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, so what tools do you have to work with 84 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: to shape those decisions? 85 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: Some life experience. I was brought up in a family 86 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: that didn't have much and it was very much because 87 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 2: circumstances happened, like my mom passed away when I was four. 88 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,799 Speaker 2: Dad was a widower with four children. Under the ages 89 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: of eleven at the age of forty, you know, and 90 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 2: Mum was thirty five when she died. So growing up 91 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 2: my father was an amazing man and loved my dad 92 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 2: even when he brings me at random times. Learnt that 93 00:04:54,000 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: sometimes money isn't necessarily an abundance, but you don't have 94 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: with money, you can have with time. So my father 95 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 2: taught me a whole thing a lot around community service. Because, 96 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 2: for example, my dad sent us to really great schools 97 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 2: on Awklands North Shore. They weren't cheap schools, they were integrated, 98 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: they were Catholic schools. My dad was paying off our 99 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: school fees for ten years after I had finished. He 100 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 2: had struck that deal with the school to pay off 101 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: the school fees because his wider purpose was making sure 102 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: that we had a good education despite what had happened 103 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: to mum passing away. But what my dad didn't have 104 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 2: in money, he gave in time. So he was that dad, 105 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: you know. Eventually on the board of trustees. He was 106 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: the father that the school went to when they were 107 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: having problems with Pacific families and children. My dad would 108 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: advise them on that. He's also the one driving the 109 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: school van going to pick up goods and stuff and 110 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: fruit and veggies from all the different suppliers to sell 111 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 2: at the school fair. So I learned really quickly that 112 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: sometimes money isn't everything because you don't have much, but 113 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 2: actually what you have in abundance of is your time 114 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,119 Speaker 2: and being really purposeful with that time. 115 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: And so when you think of what life's like for Kiwi, now, Howard, 116 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: what are you seeing around people in their financial situation? 117 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: Really tough? I am seeing coming through my office every 118 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: day in Pottydoer, so I have an electro office and 119 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: Pottydoer one of my two officers. I am hearing people 120 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 2: like I was at netball on Saturday and a couple 121 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 2: of people said to me, like they've never experienced it 122 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: this tough. It is really hard for a group of 123 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: people out there who are struggling that despite being working 124 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: or working or having one or two jobs, sometimes three, 125 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: that they're struggling just to make ends meet. So we've 126 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 2: just had recent inflation figures come out and you can 127 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: see where that problem is is because when inflation is 128 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: high on food, on rates, on insurance, on energy, those 129 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 2: are the core basics for what any family or any 130 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: person needs to live a life. So it's really really 131 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: tough out there. 132 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: What do you think that we can be doing better? 133 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: When I speak to businesses in particular, I'm asking them 134 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: to think about how they give back. A lot of 135 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: them know they work on a social license and a 136 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: lot of them are doing some great programs to support 137 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: community organizations. I believe as the role of government at 138 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: a time when the economic cycle is on a low, 139 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: so as the private sector pulls back, that's when the 140 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: public sector pushes forward. So that's the timing of investment 141 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: I think is really important right now. But we're seeing 142 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of kiwis, you know, a planeload a 143 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: day leaving New Zealand because they think that the grass 144 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: is green, are somewhere else, And to be fair to them, 145 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: yes they will get better wages in Australia, but that's 146 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: not what we want. The concern for me is that 147 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: who is leaving and we're starting to see that it's 148 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: really that workforce is starting to move with their feet. 149 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: And my concern is that whenever labor decides to whenever 150 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: we win and we take over the books, is we're 151 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: going to have to rebuild some of that capability that 152 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: we are losing, particularly for example, in the infrastructure and 153 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: construction space, where there's been a huge loss of jobs 154 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: or roles. So it's a big piece of work that 155 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: we have to be mindful of. But also if we're 156 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 2: not connected to our communities, we have no idea as politicians, 157 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: and really we shouldn't be in that space if we're 158 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 2: not connected to the communities and the people that we're serving. 159 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: So the broad brush cut right across all agencies is 160 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: my view, not a prudent approach. When you're, for example, 161 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 2: a business and you know if times are tough and 162 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: you want to cut back spending, you don't necessarily cut 163 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 2: back across units. You think, actually, if I put a 164 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 2: bit more of my money in this unit, it means 165 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: I can produce a bit more goods because I know 166 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: that that element of my business is doing really well 167 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: or is returning better than what other elements of my 168 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: business are. So the broadbush just cut everything, I think 169 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: was very cruel. Where the government should focus on is one, 170 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: services to community. We know people are doing it tough, 171 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: so removing areas that make it easier for people to 172 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: either get to work, get their kids to school, make 173 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 2: them healthier, be being able to access prescription fees, etc. 174 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: Those are the areas that I would keep in if 175 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: I was the Minister of Finance, because I know that 176 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 2: it has a return to the community in which a 177 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: service area where I wouldn't have done though, is taken 178 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 2: money from one area and then put it in areas 179 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: where there is less productive activity, for example gas subsidies 180 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: or putting it through a tax break for tobacco companies 181 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: for e cigarettes. So cuts have not been great because 182 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: they've been quite blunt, they've been quite cruel, and they 183 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: haven't been considered because as much as the government has 184 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 2: said it's not going to cut back on frontline services, 185 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: that's so not what we're hearing. And when you see 186 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: their social issues such as growing homelessness, jobs being lost. 187 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 2: In the infrastructure specter a sector, those are the areas 188 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 2: that you want to keep investing in, which is continuing 189 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: to build houses, continuing to invest in infrastructure projects because 190 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 2: that has a longer first, longer term return, but second 191 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 2: it keeps the economy ticking over because there's certainty for 192 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 2: these big you know, multimillion dollar you know sometimes billion 193 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 2: dollar projects, which means that the money is still in 194 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: the economy from my perspective, the cuts have been cruel. 195 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 2: They haven't been considered enough. And if Labor comes in again, 196 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 2: it's about looking at everything on the table, not stopping 197 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 2: and starting infrastructure projects like we've seen in the last 198 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 2: eighteen months. And it's about our community, our services to community. 199 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 2: Where do we need to strengthen those areas in order 200 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: to able to have a more functioning society because everybody 201 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 2: is being looked after. 202 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: And so in your time in Parliament you're an advisor 203 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: and you've worked under both the National and the Labor Party, 204 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: so you've seen different views. And now you're not only 205 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: the Finance in Economy spokesposting for Labor, but you've now 206 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: taken on a new portfolio, savings and investing. Why was 207 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: that role created and can you tell us a bit 208 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: about that. 209 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,359 Speaker 2: It's really a good sign post for where our focuses 210 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 2: that we will take to the next election. Savings an investment. 211 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: We know that some of the best policies that that 212 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: has survived governments as they come and go. With some 213 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: of Labour's policies such as care we Saber the Superfund, 214 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 2: So for us we know with Kiwi Saber there is 215 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: some unfinished business. There are some areas that we want 216 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: to really look at in relation to how do we 217 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: increase the uptake of kei we saber, how do we 218 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: support both employers and employees to contribute a bit more. 219 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 2: Where is the iniquity in ki we saber? And it's 220 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 2: the same with investment again, being able to have income 221 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: that's of a sufficient level that you can actually choose 222 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 2: to invest. That's a really important part of what Labour 223 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: wants to offer in the next election. 224 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: So we started chairs eas to try and create more 225 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: opportunities for key we to grow their wealth outside but 226 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: also alongside property. What's your view on how that's playing 227 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: out or how that plays out for people being able 228 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: to invest in different things. 229 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: Thank you as as a person who grew up thinking 230 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 2: that owning your own home is the only way to 231 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 2: wealth or working your way to wealth was the only way. 232 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: Thank you so much because it provides an opportunity for 233 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: and I'd say my children who actually have a Chezy's account, 234 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: for my children to do access something that doesn't isn't 235 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 2: just this big beast of a trading thing that happens 236 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 2: on Wall Street or you know, down the road here 237 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 2: in Wellington at our stock market. It gives choices and 238 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: that you don't just have to invest in land. You know, 239 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 2: when I speak to the index, I speak to the 240 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: indid X, they talk about the returns through equities as 241 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 2: just as the returns are just as good as land 242 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: return but it's not that accessible. And so Chezy's has 243 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: definitely opened up the opportunity for anybody and everybody to 244 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: be able to access a market which probably traditionally was 245 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 2: inaccessible to everybody. So yeah, huge he to you all 246 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: for that. 247 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: Thank you. How do you see kind of money flowing 248 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: into those businesses? 249 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 2: It's so important because it all so there's an issue 250 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 2: with New Zealand and the way that we invest in 251 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 2: land and that there is an it's almost an automatic 252 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 2: like land is going to give you the return. But 253 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 2: as a result, it means that our economy is very 254 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 2: much based off people investing in what is a less 255 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: productive part of the economy, whereas if we're investing in 256 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: shares or in equities or in you know, basically the 257 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 2: capital that businesses will be able to access because people 258 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: are backing them, it means they can grow more jobs, 259 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: they can do more things, they can create more widgets 260 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: or innovate more so that they call it. There's a 261 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 2: technical word for it, but basically that turning of the 262 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: mind to thinking I don't just have to invest in land. 263 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: I can have another option to invest and it's easy 264 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: to invest in that. That is a great mindset for 265 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 2: New Zealand future investors will investors now to have and 266 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: it's a mindset that through a platform like Chasis, all 267 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: through platforms that allow for crowdsourcing or crowdfunding, it allows 268 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: people to have easier access to it. 269 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: And so you've already been the Minister for Economic Development 270 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: and Associate Minister of Finance, but not for long though. 271 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: Did you feel like you got enough time to sink 272 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: your teeth into it? 273 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely not want to do so. I was a 274 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 2: minister my first term, so I got it in twenty 275 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: twenty and then in twenty twenty three, just under our 276 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: durn step down and Chris Hipkins was nominated through our 277 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: party to be the leader, he came Prime Minister. I 278 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: was a minister for ten months. So within that ten 279 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 2: months I had nine portfolios, so drop some, pick some up, 280 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: you know, and then others I carried through. Definitely not 281 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: enough time at that stage of an electoral cycle. Your 282 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: job there is just to make sure that the pathways 283 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: that has been decided probably about eighteen months beforehand is 284 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: you know, continuing. So not enough time and I'm hoping 285 00:15:58,640 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: the next time I get it and We'll have plenty 286 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 2: of time to do the things that I want to do. 287 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you are in the running to be the 288 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: Finance minister at the next election. What would a Barbara 289 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: Edmunds economic plan look like? 290 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: And Barbara Edmunds economic plan would probably look at some 291 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: key sectors in the economy, think about where is New 292 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 2: Zealand's competitive advantage. If it requires us putting something on 293 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 2: a boat or on a plane, then we've lost that 294 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: advantage given where we are geographically. And there's been a 295 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 2: lot of commentary around why New Zealand's productivity is low. 296 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: And my very first speech as the Finance spokesperson seems 297 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: like ages ago, but it was just last year. Beginning 298 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: of last year, I talked about productivity will be our focus, 299 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: not just on the productive side, thinking where are our 300 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: competitive advantage areas, but also we know energy is huge. 301 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: Energy is basically underpins any of that productive sector. We 302 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: don't have sufficient supply of energy, then we get what's 303 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 2: happened in the last year with factories closing down. The 304 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 2: other major focus for me is the human capability of that. 305 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 2: What are the skill sets that we need for jobs 306 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: of now, for jobs of the future, and what's coming 307 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 2: towards us, whether it's AI, whether it's other technology changes, 308 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 2: whether it's geopolitical changes. That ensures that we have a 309 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: workforce that is able to build, develop and create the 310 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: society we want to thrive here in New Zealand. 311 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: Well, when you talk about competitive advantage of New Zealand, 312 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: you know, what are the things that are popping up 313 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 1: for you? 314 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: Renewable energy. We clearly have high sources of renewable energy. 315 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 2: There's still a percentage there that will need to work 316 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: through and the transition through that. There's also the really 317 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 2: great thing about New Zealand and I believe it's our 318 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 2: superpower to the world and that's our marty economy. The 319 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: fact that our MARDI businesses here in New Zealand is 320 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: the fastest growing sector. I think we need to unlock 321 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: some of the issues there to allow them to access 322 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: their asset base. So, for example, to today, Fenoa is 323 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: an area that we're keeping a close eye where the 324 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: government looks too to be able to unlock Mardi Land 325 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 2: so it can be used to its potential. The other 326 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: major issue, and which is why I'm so glad that 327 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 2: Chippy made it or Chris Sipkins made it a portfolio, 328 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: is the creative economy. The creative economy is not just 329 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: the things that make us feel good and the social 330 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: cohesion benefits that come with that. It's also the things 331 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 2: that Keywis are so good about good at doing, which 332 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 2: is the dreaming and then the innovating to develop it, 333 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: to make it a thing, to be able to make 334 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 2: things easier for us. So the creative economy does include AI, 335 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 2: It does include research and development, it does include science 336 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 2: and innovation. But then it also includes the gaming sector, 337 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 2: which we've seen you through a little bit of support 338 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: previously in twenty twenty three, they have grown into quite 339 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: a competitive sector. So those are some of the key 340 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 2: competitive advantages that we're actively looking at for policies in 341 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: those spaces. 342 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: And then on AI, like, what are you saying as 343 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: some of the opportunities for alto are in that. 344 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 2: I don't know about. Most people buy use AI every day, 345 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 2: and when you're in opposition and you have low resources. 346 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 2: AI is a great tool because it's always like another 347 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 2: person that's helping you formulate the structure of ideas. And 348 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: then you do need the human element to make sure 349 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 2: that it's been quality reviewed, that it's you know, the 350 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 2: references that it brings up are actually accurate or not. 351 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: And so you do need to have that human at 352 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 2: the end of that assessment period. But AI has huge 353 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 2: opportunities for us both here, I mean in countries around 354 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 2: the world. Corporates are already using it. It's about making 355 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 2: sure that we bring everyone on that AI journey because 356 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 2: we already have a digital divide here in New Zealand. 357 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: And if you haven't spoken to edit or La f Aili, 358 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 2: she is New Zealander Young New Zealander of the Year. 359 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 2: She's been working in the last couple of year years 360 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: around trying to bring together that digital divide, particularly for 361 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: Pacific people. But we have a large group of people 362 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: who are being left behind on the digital space. We 363 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: need to bring them with it, and we also need 364 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: to bring AI with it. It also provides us an 365 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 2: opportunity to think about what are the jobs of the future. 366 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: As AI starts to. You know, some people will say, 367 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,239 Speaker 2: we'll start to take some jobs. I'm thinking about if 368 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: I was a law graduate, you know, whether I'd still 369 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 2: have a job. But we have to think about what 370 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 2: actually a law graduate might not have to do all 371 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: the research that's involved in the due diligence, but actually 372 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: the law graduates their job now is to do the 373 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: quality assurance from it. So it does. There is definite 374 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: opportunities in AI, but we need to make sure that 375 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 2: everybody has access to those opportunities too. 376 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: Another on the technical side, we see crypto, you know, 377 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: obviously being talked about a lot. How does that affect 378 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: your future thinking or do you think about that? 379 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 2: No matter how I personally feel about crypto or how 380 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: other people may be personally feel about crypto, it's here 381 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: and I think, you know, I've had a lot of 382 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 2: conversations over the last couple of years, and there's a 383 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 2: lot of skepticism around cryptocurrencies from sort of more traditional areas. 384 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: The thing that makes me wake up though, to the 385 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: role of cryptocurrency is that we have the president of 386 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: the first world talking about cryptocurrency and whether that's for 387 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: their benefit or not, and also putting it through legislation 388 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 2: in their legislature in America, but also in trade deals 389 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 2: there is references to crypto currency. I think there needs 390 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: to be a greater understanding that Yes, okay, if you 391 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 2: believe it's speculatory, that's that's your gig. But don't let 392 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,479 Speaker 2: that be a barrier to understanding crypto and what are 393 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 2: the regulatory settings for crypto because I think of lawmakers 394 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 2: just push it aside as that's just a speculator. While 395 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 2: back in the late eighteen hundreds, so was land was speculatory, 396 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 2: so was shares speculatory. You know, there's always a speculative 397 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 2: market for investment in assets. But ultimately, as decision makers, 398 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 2: you need to probably take a serious look that if 399 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 2: the president of the first world is taking it seriously, 400 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 2: then our settings right here in New Zealand. 401 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, So keeping an eye to the future, you know, 402 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: we are here to help people set themselves up for 403 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: there now but also their future retirement features in a 404 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: lot of what we're helping people on the journey too. 405 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: You've been quite vocal about the changes on the Kei 406 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: saver and the budget. What are your thoughts on raising 407 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: the minimum contribution and the employer contribution. 408 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 2: We are for raising the contribution by both employers and employees. 409 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: But what you need to do, as you've seen it, 410 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 2: as we've seen in Australia, is it needs to be 411 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: a very clear pathway and not all at once. And 412 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: I'm really mindful that right now it is tough for 413 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 2: both employers and employees to be able to save for 414 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 2: their retirement. So when we come out with our que 415 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 2: We Saber policy as we go to the election, it'll 416 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: be quite clearly flagging as to Okay, we do believe 417 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: contributions need to go up and we think perhaps that 418 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 2: this is the best way forward by this time, by 419 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: this amount over this period. But it's quite clear what 420 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 2: we've learned from Australia is having it clearly signposted. It 421 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: means that everybody has a bit of certainty and a 422 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 2: bit of planning that they can do both as a 423 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: business and both as an employee. Because most people or 424 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 2: some people will know, I'm a late comer to q 425 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: We Saver, I'm a late comer to ki We Saver 426 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 2: because we just didn't have the money to invest in 427 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: my savings for retirement. And the reason being is because 428 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 2: we want a security of tenure of a house. So 429 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: for us, the ability to buy our first home was 430 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 2: more important than saving for the retirement position as a family, 431 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 2: And I say as a family, for me to be 432 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 2: able to start saving for that retirement, but I will 433 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 2: also have a home. And for a lot of people, 434 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 2: that ability to have savings plus a home is diminishing 435 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 2: over time because home ownership rates are diminishing over time. 436 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: So I think being really clear when you go to 437 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 2: do your personal savings or investment is what is it for? 438 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 2: There are no quick shortcuts to this. There's a long 439 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: term purpose to it and being able to make sure 440 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: that you keep checking in like is this the investment 441 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 2: that I want? And is this give me the returns 442 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 2: that I want? And does this meet the initial purpose 443 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:41,959 Speaker 2: as to why I invested in this asset. 444 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: With your Kei Savor, you can withdraw for your first home. 445 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: And you talked about, you know, whether your decision was 446 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: is it for my retirement? Is it for a home? 447 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: You know what what's your view on that? 448 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: So I think that's important that qwis be able to 449 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 2: access it to get their first time or to help 450 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 2: contribute towards their first home. I have been in ke 451 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: we save long enough to be able to build up 452 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 2: an amount that's actually going to be able to be 453 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: contributed to them buying their first home. Ultimately, that's a 454 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,719 Speaker 2: policy which we've kept in since you know, came in 455 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 2: under a previous government. We've kept it going as well. 456 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: Where my concern would be is that if you start 457 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 2: to open up for first home withdrawals, if you start 458 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 2: to open it up for other things, So for example, 459 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: if they start to open it up for business purposes, 460 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 2: you know, or to buy a farm, those of that 461 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 2: starts to take away from what q we Saver was 462 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: intended to be the first home. For example, again, the 463 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 2: Retirement Commissioner did a review in twenty twenty two which 464 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: showed that people's home ownership rates are starting to reduce. 465 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 2: When I think about my retirement, I've got a home, 466 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 2: I've got q WE Savor probably would probably do a 467 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 2: couple more investments, you know, to be a bit more 468 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 2: to make sure I've just got enough enough for it. 469 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 2: But ultimately that ability to buy your first time is 470 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: really important because it can be part of your fuller 471 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 2: retirement savings package. 472 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: We are keep we Save a provider, and we did 473 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: some research around people and contributions. And I think you know, 474 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: what you said completely lines up to what we saw 475 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: as well that people were happy to was seventy eight 476 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: percent actually said that they were support are raising contributions 477 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: from their day to day you know, money they're taking 478 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: home now for that future. And you've already talked about 479 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: time through this, and I think money and time there 480 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: is that relationship there where even if you start small 481 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: or with small amounts, over time, time is your friend 482 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to money as well. 483 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially for retirement. 484 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. So what's your current read on how key 485 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: we save is going for New Zealanders? 486 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: Could be better, absolutely could be better, But I'm also 487 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,959 Speaker 2: very cognizant we're in a downturn at the moment and 488 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: it is hard on people. And like I said, like 489 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 2: I am a later adopted, we save because I knew 490 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: how hard it was. You know, we had eight dollars 491 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 2: in the hand after everything was paid for, and if 492 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 2: it meant that we could actually buy our first time 493 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 2: and say for our first time, that was the priority 494 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: because we needed that security of tenure. So I totally 495 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: understand why it's hard for people to save. But ultimately, 496 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 2: as governments, if we can clearly signpost when increases may 497 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: happen and over a certain period of time. It gives 498 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: people time to prepare. It also gives governments time to 499 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 2: think about, Okay, the Reserve Bank, the Treasury have forecasted 500 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 2: this for the next forecast period, when is the right 501 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 2: time to actually start implementing those increases and by how much? 502 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 2: You know, it could be zero point five, it could 503 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 2: be a percent, or you could do what Australia did 504 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 2: in sort of over a ten year period it started 505 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 2: to increase considerably. The other element that we are very 506 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 2: cognizant of, particularly in the labor party, is that ke 507 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 2: we saver is starting to become a part of a 508 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 2: total rem package remuneration package. So if we're going to 509 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 2: be increasing employer contributions, ultimately that's actually coming out of 510 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 2: the pay of the employee. So they're say, for example, 511 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 2: just hypothetically it's at four percent, which it is for 512 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 2: some some may choose three percent. If we say, are 513 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 2: we going to increase it to five percent next year, well, 514 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: actually some employees that's ultimately ten percent, because the way 515 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 2: that their contract has been written is they're actually contributing 516 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 2: it as part of their pay. So those are some 517 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 2: of the other elements that we need to consider as well. 518 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 2: What's the interplay between total remuneration packages. Can we say 519 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 2: contribution increases the period in which we look to increase it, 520 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: but then also the element of who's missing out and why, 521 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: like the over sixty five year olds because they don't 522 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 2: you know, the employer might not have to contribute. What 523 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 2: about the mothers who've had to go on maternity You know, 524 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 2: there are some really amazing employers who actually continue can 525 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: contribute while they're on maternity leave. So those are the 526 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 2: elements we need to look at as those equity elements 527 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 2: as well. 528 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: And we've talked about that the Australian contributions into their 529 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: super and I think it's sitting in around twelve or 530 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: over twelve percent at the moment. And what's your view 531 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: on how we may look to like do you have 532 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: figures in your mind and we see our contribution rates 533 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: needing to get to to support people in their retirement. 534 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: Everybody will need a different amount right for their retirement 535 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 2: depending on the lifestyle that they want to live when 536 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 2: they eventually decide to finish work or finish their business 537 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 2: or being a business owner. Some of the major benefits 538 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: for Australia not just some of their higher retirement savings. 539 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 2: It's actually it's created a deep pool of capital that 540 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 2: can be accessed for other areas within the Australian economy. 541 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 2: So for us as coming into the way that we 542 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,479 Speaker 2: think about this policy is if we grow deeper pools 543 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 2: of funds or capital within the country, whether that's through 544 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 2: key WE Saver or you know, thank goodness for Sir 545 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 2: Michael Cullen and Helen Clark for the super fund. That 546 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: means that there's a bit more money in there to 547 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 2: be able to invest in areas that we need to 548 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 2: be invested in. It also gives governments different leavers as 549 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: well to be able to push and pool on ultimately 550 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 2: greater savings. Is New Zealand is good for us. So 551 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 2: with whether it's key WE say, where it's super funds, 552 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 2: where it's a sec whether it's key WE Saber providers 553 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 2: in the funds that they hold as well, that's all 554 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: makes it a better thing for New Zealand. It's just 555 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 2: a question of how much more do we need. 556 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: Can you envisage a future where superannuation is means tested. 557 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 2: I'm not under my watch and I really I say that, 558 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 2: you know, quite in a relaxed way, but also in 559 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,479 Speaker 2: a way that I am an evidence and data person 560 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: and when I read the information from the retirement commissioner 561 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 2: commissioner around means testing, there's going to be a line 562 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 2: in the sand that's gonna hurt someone. So we need 563 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 2: to look at the retirement settings as a whole, not 564 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 2: just at income testing and not just at increasing the age, 565 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 2: but how do we increase can we save savings? How 566 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 2: do we ensure that the super fund is working as 567 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 2: it's intended to and actually it isn't working as intended 568 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 2: to because it's actually getting great returns and number one 569 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 2: in the world for pension funds. But making sure we 570 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 2: look at the full retirement system and that includes the 571 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,239 Speaker 2: family home because most people if they buy the you know, 572 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: I think about a lot of the pensions. I know 573 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 2: in my area, they have their family home. When they 574 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 2: need to go to a retirement village, they sail down 575 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: that house and they move into a retirement village. So 576 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 2: the retirement village setting as well as part of that 577 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 2: whole retirement scheme and settings in New Zealand, So look 578 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 2: at it as a whole not just as different elements 579 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 2: of it, because they all work together very carefully, and 580 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 2: if you pull in one place then there could be 581 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 2: unintended consequences somewhere else. So it's a conversation that we 582 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 2: need to have more generally and more about open about 583 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: not just in come testing, not just about raising the age, 584 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,479 Speaker 2: but about the whole settings for retirement in New Zealand. 585 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: So what's your vision for the future of are. 586 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 2: That's a big question. I mean, and I know it's 587 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 2: a big question. And I hear that every time I 588 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 2: have like a business dinner or a lunch or where 589 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 2: I get to spend time with some amazing businesses that 590 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 2: we in quy companies you have in New Zealand. Is 591 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: that you know what's the vision, and my vision will 592 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 2: be different to your vision. But ultimately, again if I 593 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 2: go back to where my first principles laid, it's a 594 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: New Zealand where there's an opportunity for everybody. That's why 595 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 2: I got into politics because I realized in my community 596 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 2: there were opportunities that my children had that other children 597 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 2: didn't have. So making sure there is opportunities, making sure 598 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 2: that you can if you want to live here, man, 599 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 2: that you can have your own home, or that you 600 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 2: have a security of tenure that you don't feel like 601 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 2: you're going to be kicked out the next week, where 602 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 2: you can lay down your routs in a community that 603 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 2: you choose, that where you want to send your kids to, 604 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: where you want to be able to access healthcare. So 605 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 2: it's a big question and for me, I can't yet 606 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 2: quite articulate what the vision is for New Zealand, but 607 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 2: I think about it as opportunities. This is an amazing country. 608 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 2: We have some amazing people doing such awesome things. But 609 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 2: it's just making sure that everybody has an opportunity, whether 610 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 2: you're the factory cleaner on the factory floor or whether 611 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 2: you're the retiree that wants to just see their grandchildren 612 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 2: come visit them. That's the New Zealand I remember growing 613 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: up and where everybody had a chance, and that's the 614 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 2: New Zealand, which when we come to the election, we 615 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 2: want to make sure that everybody has that opportunity as 616 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 2: well to be who they want to be and to 617 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 2: be able to build their roots, grow their community and 618 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 2: be that special place at the bottom of the world 619 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 2: where we know that everybody wants to move to when 620 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 2: things go bad, but also hold dear to us what 621 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 2: makes us New Zealanders. 622 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: Thanks Haanks for joining us, Barbara, we've covered a lot 623 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: of ground. 624 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, lots always a good space though. 625 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, and thanks everyone for tuning in. You can watch 626 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: she Ad Lunch on YouTube or follow along on your 627 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: favorite podcast app. Leave us a rating or comment about 628 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: what you'd like to hear about next Khaki Deck