1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,559 Speaker 1: Shane Jones on the program earlier. It floated the idea 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: in the speech last week and the Prime Minister on 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: the show yesterday picked it up and rain with it. 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: Are we heading for the scrapping of some regional councils, 5 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: if not all of them? He also talked of capping rights. 6 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: Of course. 7 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Now Sam Brought's the President of the Local Government New 8 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: Zealand and he is with us. Sam, very good morning 9 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: to you. 10 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, good morning. 11 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: Make do those thoughts fill you with horror? 12 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: I think we need to think about the system of 13 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: local government we've got in New Zealand and take an 14 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: approach that's not just about one off announcements of what 15 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: a particular minister might think, but what's the future system 16 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 2: of local government and central government that we want to 17 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: see in New Zealand. It's been asked before, and I 18 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 2: think it's a good question to ask ourselves. 19 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: Do we have too many councils? 20 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: I think when we look across the board, I don't 21 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 2: think that the system set up in nineteen eighty nine 22 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: as currently fit for purpose today. So we can look 23 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: across the world. Some places have more councils, some places 24 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: have far less, and that's a question that we should 25 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: definitely ask ourselves. At the moment, though it seems like 26 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: we're going through change based on some ed hock decision making. 27 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: So we'll change local government because water has changed, We'll 28 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,919 Speaker 2: change local government because roma changes. We'll change local government 29 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: because the building consent authorities change, And we cert actually 30 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 2: take a much more strategic approach to this and say 31 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: what future system would we like to see if. 32 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: We were going to tackle councils, if we agreed there 33 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: are too many of them, is it regional or local 34 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: or both you would go at? 35 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: I think it's a system that we should ask that 36 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: question about. So in different regions might look different and 37 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: there might be different systems that could be set up. 38 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 2: But until we have a proper structured conversation about it, 39 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: I think it's too early to say where we should 40 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: and shouldn't change things. 41 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: What about capping? Would you be upset at. 42 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: That rates camping? 43 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? 44 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? Rates keeping? The international evidence shows that it actually 45 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: can have a pretty detrimental effect, even in areas where 46 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: a government might not intend it to have. So a 47 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: rates keeping sort of excludes core infrastructure and water and transport, 48 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: even those things get hurt. It can lift councils borrowing costs, 49 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: as we've seen in New Zealand already and the examples 50 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: in Australia, so that those states that have rates caping, 51 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: New South Wales and Victoria actually had higher rates increases 52 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: than South Australia where there was no rates cap in place. 53 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: What do you forget your view? Forget the government's view 54 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:18,839 Speaker 1: of the day popular with the public. Do you reckon 55 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: if the government came out and said we're going to 56 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: get rid of regional councils? Am we going to cap rates? 57 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: You take a poll, do you reckon it gets backing? 58 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 2: I think you know, regional councils have a role to 59 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: do and that's around what the public sees as around compliance, 60 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 2: and you know councils that run compliance that can really 61 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: annoy people. So I can understand where people might not 62 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: enjoy seeing councils and want to take control of councils. 63 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 2: That rhetoric its popular. I think we need to think 64 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: about what they see is the effect of the change 65 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 2: we want to implement, and that requires more of a 66 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: conversation than just a reaction to something that might channkle. 67 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: Okay, Sam appreciate it. Sam Broughton, who's the local government 68 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: New Zealand President. 69 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: For more from the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 70 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: Newstalks from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.