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Speaker 1: New numbers on our deforestation and where the more trees

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Speaker 1: is hurting farming. Fifty one thousand hectares our productive land

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Speaker 1: has been lost in the last couple of years. Twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two a forestation happened at double the Climate Change

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Speaker 1: Commissions recommended rate. And I suspect that's because it's easy.

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Speaker 1: Of course, beef and lamb chair. Kate Acklin's with us

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Speaker 1: on this, Kate, morning to you morning mate. Of all

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Speaker 1: the things that you guys deal with on the land

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Speaker 1: at the moment, from the cost of living crisis to

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Speaker 1: the cost of fertilizer, are shipping and banking and all

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Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, where does this forest thing sit?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, it's usually concerning it fifty one thousand hectares

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Speaker 2: in the last couple of years, but two hundred and

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Speaker 2: sixty one thousand hectaares since twenty seventeen, and that whole

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Speaker 2: farm that has been bought with the intentional or planted

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Speaker 2: already into forestry. And I guess for us to concern

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Speaker 2: is we know that for three hundred thousand hectares that

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Speaker 2: we lose, that's around a million sheep that are lost

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Speaker 2: out of the system.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I've got my land. I've got three hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty hectares. I put it onto the market. Somebody

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Speaker 1: comes along and go, I'll give you what you want

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Speaker 1: for it. What do I do? Knowing it's going to

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Speaker 1: go into forestry, what do you want me to do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, and that is absolutely the challenge. And I

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Speaker 2: think what's driving this Actually it's not forestry as such.

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Speaker 2: It's actually those that the utes settings that are driving

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Speaker 2: the carbon farming. So we just need some sensible limits.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're not anti trees. Were Actually there is

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Speaker 2: absolutely a place for trees and forestry, and you know

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Speaker 2: the best place for trees is to incorporate them within

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Speaker 2: our farming system. So it's just about making sure we

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Speaker 2: get the policy settings right.

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Speaker 1: Mcclay's in charge of it. He says they're still working

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Speaker 1: through it. Do you believe they're working through it in

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Speaker 1: a way that will conclude in a way that makes

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Speaker 1: you happy or you just don't know.

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Speaker 2: Well, their pre election manifesto did set out what was

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Speaker 2: a pretty sensible platform, and that was putting a moratorium

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Speaker 2: on whole farm conversions on those land classes one to five,

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Speaker 2: which is the really productive land. And they're just putting

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Speaker 2: some restrictions on land class six, which is where a

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Speaker 2: lot of your hell country sheet and beef, you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of you breeding country.

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Speaker 1: It was always going to come to this though, when

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Speaker 1: you talk about the Climate Commission. If you can simply

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Speaker 1: plant a tree to make your contribution to climate, you're

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Speaker 1: going to, aren't you? Because it's easy as well.

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Speaker 2: It is the easy option, but I guess the question

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Speaker 2: is it the best option for New Zealand. A forestry

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Speaker 2: absolutely has a place, but what we want is mosaic landscapes.

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Speaker 2: We don't want a blanket landscape of pine trees, No,

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Speaker 2: we do not.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any indication when the government are going

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Speaker 1: to make some sort of.

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Speaker 2: Decision on this, Look they have indicated before Christmas, so

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Speaker 2: you know we're hopeful that will be well.

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Speaker 1: Christmas is close, so let's stand by for it. Kate,

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. Kate Acklin, who's the Beef and Lamb New

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Speaker 1: Zealand Chair. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen

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