1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk ZEDB. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,133 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,573 --> 00:00:19,053 Speaker 2: We're talking about the increased investment from the government into 4 00:00:19,053 --> 00:00:21,973 Speaker 2: battling myth and petamine. But the secondary question we all 5 00:00:21,973 --> 00:00:25,092 Speaker 2: know myth and fittamine is an absolute scooge in New Zealand, 6 00:00:25,253 --> 00:00:26,893 Speaker 2: and I think it's fair to say we're a bit 7 00:00:26,893 --> 00:00:30,093 Speaker 2: slow off the mark and dealing with now internal Oh, now, 8 00:00:30,173 --> 00:00:34,132 Speaker 2: my finanyl is coming and hot. Are we prepared and 9 00:00:34,173 --> 00:00:36,933 Speaker 2: should we be looking seriously at trying to get a 10 00:00:37,053 --> 00:00:39,373 Speaker 2: head of fincinyl before it takes hold? Oh one hundred 11 00:00:39,373 --> 00:00:40,653 Speaker 2: and eight ten eighty is that number of cour. 12 00:00:40,653 --> 00:00:41,893 Speaker 3: You just have to go on line. If you don't 13 00:00:41,893 --> 00:00:45,053 Speaker 3: know what we're talking about, just look up Finty Folding 14 00:00:45,492 --> 00:00:48,373 Speaker 3: and this the zombies that are covering the streets of 15 00:00:49,132 --> 00:00:52,453 Speaker 3: certain North American cities. Canada has been hit incredibly bad, 16 00:00:53,492 --> 00:00:57,053 Speaker 3: incredibly badly by fentanyl and it just seems to take 17 00:00:57,093 --> 00:00:59,533 Speaker 3: people's lives away from them and they're just quite happy 18 00:00:59,573 --> 00:01:01,892 Speaker 3: to stand on the streets swaying back and forward. It's 19 00:01:01,973 --> 00:01:04,053 Speaker 3: like some kind of dystopian future. It's horrifying. 20 00:01:04,093 --> 00:01:07,212 Speaker 2: Yeah, the walking Dead and it's coming to New Zealand. Yep, 21 00:01:07,253 --> 00:01:10,453 Speaker 2: it certainly is on the line. Is former Police Minister 22 00:01:10,653 --> 00:01:12,572 Speaker 2: Stuart nashtavi a chit about this? Could I Stewart? 23 00:01:15,253 --> 00:01:20,173 Speaker 3: So, Stuart Nash, fentanyl? You've looked into this problem, haven't you. 24 00:01:21,253 --> 00:01:23,452 Speaker 4: Yeah, So when I was Minister of Police very early on, 25 00:01:23,493 --> 00:01:25,812 Speaker 4: so this would have been twenty eighteen, you went across 26 00:01:25,813 --> 00:01:27,573 Speaker 4: the United States and had a look at this. And 27 00:01:27,613 --> 00:01:30,853 Speaker 4: this is when the fenttal epidemic was was in full force, 28 00:01:30,893 --> 00:01:33,973 Speaker 4: and you know, right across North America actually, and we've 29 00:01:33,973 --> 00:01:37,732 Speaker 4: never really had an oprahyoid problem in New Zeale. You know, 30 00:01:37,733 --> 00:01:39,853 Speaker 4: there's been small pockets of heroin in the past, but 31 00:01:39,932 --> 00:01:42,893 Speaker 4: never fential in the way that's that's hit North America 32 00:01:43,453 --> 00:01:47,573 Speaker 4: and not really Europe. But you know, memphetamine is an 33 00:01:47,613 --> 00:01:51,373 Speaker 4: absolute scourge. And what happened is when the five oh one, 34 00:01:51,493 --> 00:01:54,173 Speaker 4: you know, these were the gangs. This is what was 35 00:01:54,213 --> 00:01:57,933 Speaker 4: when Australia started seeing back all those really bad guys 36 00:01:58,133 --> 00:02:00,773 Speaker 4: and the guys at the Commaceiros and the banditos and 37 00:02:00,773 --> 00:02:04,053 Speaker 4: these Australian games got well established here. And what happened 38 00:02:04,093 --> 00:02:09,933 Speaker 4: is they bought with them their international networks and in 39 00:02:10,013 --> 00:02:12,653 Speaker 4: a much more mercenary way of doing business. And when 40 00:02:12,653 --> 00:02:15,413 Speaker 4: I say doing business and talking about the importation and 41 00:02:15,453 --> 00:02:17,893 Speaker 4: the distribution of metham fetamine, and that's when it really 42 00:02:17,972 --> 00:02:19,973 Speaker 4: took off in this country, and we weren't prepared for it. 43 00:02:20,733 --> 00:02:23,493 Speaker 4: I don't think we were prepared for the level of 44 00:02:23,532 --> 00:02:26,893 Speaker 4: sophistication that these Australian gangs brought in and couldn't speed. 45 00:02:26,893 --> 00:02:28,853 Speaker 4: We've paid the price for it. I think, please do 46 00:02:28,933 --> 00:02:31,573 Speaker 4: a much better job now in terms of things are 47 00:02:31,573 --> 00:02:34,732 Speaker 4: all coming in. Look, we've never The reason why I'm 48 00:02:34,773 --> 00:02:37,013 Speaker 4: slightly skeptical that's going to hit our shores in the 49 00:02:37,013 --> 00:02:40,852 Speaker 4: way that it has Canada, for example, is because traditionally 50 00:02:41,293 --> 00:02:44,773 Speaker 4: the New Zealand market, we've paid the second highest price 51 00:02:44,853 --> 00:02:47,413 Speaker 4: for medm feta mean for any country in the world 52 00:02:47,733 --> 00:02:51,452 Speaker 4: outside of Japan. And so the gangs, you know, even 53 00:02:51,493 --> 00:02:54,133 Speaker 4: when I was Minister of Police, so we're talking six 54 00:02:54,252 --> 00:02:56,972 Speaker 4: years ago now, they estimated the gangs were making five 55 00:02:57,053 --> 00:03:00,133 Speaker 4: hundred million dollars out of meth am feta mean. So 56 00:03:00,173 --> 00:03:03,333 Speaker 4: that's that's profit out of illegal drugs. And so there 57 00:03:03,373 --> 00:03:05,933 Speaker 4: was never really a business case to bring fentalel into 58 00:03:05,933 --> 00:03:08,213 Speaker 4: this country because so much money was being made out 59 00:03:08,213 --> 00:03:10,692 Speaker 4: of out of meth and theat I mean, the distribution 60 00:03:10,813 --> 00:03:13,532 Speaker 4: networks are well established here by the gangs the police. 61 00:03:14,693 --> 00:03:17,613 Speaker 4: At one point, the gangs were far more sophisticated than 62 00:03:17,613 --> 00:03:22,213 Speaker 4: the police in terms of distribution but also avoidance. The 63 00:03:22,252 --> 00:03:25,693 Speaker 4: police are. You know, they're investing heavily now in surveillance, 64 00:03:25,733 --> 00:03:31,013 Speaker 4: and I think that the new money put them by 65 00:03:31,013 --> 00:03:34,293 Speaker 4: the government is probably overdue but well needed. But the 66 00:03:34,373 --> 00:03:38,693 Speaker 4: level of sophistication that the law enforcement agencies need in 67 00:03:38,813 --> 00:03:42,133 Speaker 4: order to be ahead of these gangs is significant. So 68 00:03:42,173 --> 00:03:45,973 Speaker 4: the investment required is massive. But the thing is here, 69 00:03:45,973 --> 00:03:47,653 Speaker 4: there are two sides of this coin, right, So there's 70 00:03:47,693 --> 00:03:51,013 Speaker 4: a supply and there's a demand. So you go really 71 00:03:51,053 --> 00:03:53,213 Speaker 4: hard on the supply. You hit these guys with the 72 00:03:53,253 --> 00:03:56,133 Speaker 4: full force of the law. You know, you give the 73 00:03:56,133 --> 00:03:59,333 Speaker 4: police the powers that they need to go really hard 74 00:03:59,333 --> 00:04:01,093 Speaker 4: against these guys, and some of those powers are reason 75 00:04:01,173 --> 00:04:03,693 Speaker 4: for jaconian, but I back them one hundred percent. But 76 00:04:03,733 --> 00:04:07,213 Speaker 4: then there's a demand side. And I've always believed that 77 00:04:07,213 --> 00:04:10,653 Speaker 4: that drug addiction should be treated as a as a 78 00:04:10,693 --> 00:04:12,813 Speaker 4: health issue as opposed to a criminal issue, and the 79 00:04:12,813 --> 00:04:15,253 Speaker 4: problem as as if we start locking a whole lot 80 00:04:15,253 --> 00:04:18,733 Speaker 4: of people up with addiction problems, then you don't deal 81 00:04:18,813 --> 00:04:22,013 Speaker 4: with the issue. We really do need to invest in 82 00:04:22,173 --> 00:04:25,573 Speaker 4: addiction and mental health services if we're to get one 83 00:04:25,693 --> 00:04:28,733 Speaker 4: them get this under control, but also get the buy 84 00:04:28,733 --> 00:04:32,093 Speaker 4: in from the community. And there's been some fantastic programs 85 00:04:32,173 --> 00:04:34,133 Speaker 4: up north. There was one where the police worked very 86 00:04:34,133 --> 00:04:37,573 Speaker 4: closely with the DHB and it worked, had great success, 87 00:04:37,653 --> 00:04:39,813 Speaker 4: but it sort of didn't get rolled out across the 88 00:04:39,813 --> 00:04:40,813 Speaker 4: country unfortunately. 89 00:04:41,173 --> 00:04:44,093 Speaker 3: So fentanyl is already in New Zealand and being fixed 90 00:04:44,133 --> 00:04:48,053 Speaker 3: in with you know, you hear about that people you know, 91 00:04:48,453 --> 00:04:51,173 Speaker 3: shoving it into too M D M A and such, 92 00:04:51,213 --> 00:04:54,893 Speaker 3: and obviously there's huge risks with that. Whereas do you 93 00:04:54,893 --> 00:04:57,773 Speaker 3: know how that's getting into the country, with what the 94 00:04:57,773 --> 00:05:01,693 Speaker 3: pathways to fentanyl being you know, arriving in New Zealand. 95 00:05:02,693 --> 00:05:04,733 Speaker 4: Well, I hear you saying that, but as far as 96 00:05:04,773 --> 00:05:07,853 Speaker 4: I'm aware includings, I'm wrong in this, it's not showing 97 00:05:07,933 --> 00:05:10,413 Speaker 4: up in the way. So what happens is police test 98 00:05:10,453 --> 00:05:16,933 Speaker 4: wastewater continuously, so we know from all the wastewater testing, 99 00:05:17,053 --> 00:05:19,533 Speaker 4: we're the methm fetamine. There's who's using it how much 100 00:05:19,893 --> 00:05:21,653 Speaker 4: that that's why we can say, you know, East Coast 101 00:05:21,653 --> 00:05:24,293 Speaker 4: and North Island Northland, for example, there's a lot of 102 00:05:24,293 --> 00:05:27,373 Speaker 4: methm fetamine in those communities. It's why we can say 103 00:05:27,413 --> 00:05:29,973 Speaker 4: down and crost Use there's a lot of ketamine because 104 00:05:30,133 --> 00:05:34,853 Speaker 4: we the police have and the scientists have a really 105 00:05:34,853 --> 00:05:37,373 Speaker 4: good facts around around what's coming. And every now and 106 00:05:37,413 --> 00:05:41,693 Speaker 4: again there was fental it did show up, and I 107 00:05:41,693 --> 00:05:44,453 Speaker 4: remember back in the day, we was always a bit 108 00:05:44,453 --> 00:05:45,853 Speaker 4: of a mystery to us, and in the end we 109 00:05:45,893 --> 00:05:48,173 Speaker 4: thought it was probably a medical clinic cleaning out its 110 00:05:48,213 --> 00:05:51,973 Speaker 4: supply or something along those lines. But I'm not aware. 111 00:05:52,013 --> 00:05:55,453 Speaker 4: But if I'm wrong on this of fentanyl showing up 112 00:05:55,453 --> 00:05:58,493 Speaker 4: in the wastewater, and all these illegal drugs show up 113 00:05:58,533 --> 00:06:00,973 Speaker 4: in the wastewater in a way which is which is 114 00:06:01,053 --> 00:06:04,413 Speaker 4: quite specific and very detailed. So if you know, if 115 00:06:04,413 --> 00:06:06,892 Speaker 4: you've heard that methm fetamine is coming in the only 116 00:06:06,933 --> 00:06:09,453 Speaker 4: way we would know that a level in the scale 117 00:06:09,453 --> 00:06:11,653 Speaker 4: of it is through this wastewater testing. 118 00:06:11,693 --> 00:06:14,933 Speaker 3: So well, it's coming up, It's been coming. I haven't 119 00:06:14,973 --> 00:06:17,773 Speaker 3: seen wastewater fentanyl showing up, but it has been found 120 00:06:17,853 --> 00:06:20,733 Speaker 3: in drug testing at festivals and stuff. You know when 121 00:06:20,773 --> 00:06:23,773 Speaker 3: that when you know someone takes their their drugs up 122 00:06:24,093 --> 00:06:27,093 Speaker 3: you know, you know, drug people, the people that drug 123 00:06:27,133 --> 00:06:29,733 Speaker 3: dealers aren't the most what do you call it above 124 00:06:29,773 --> 00:06:33,653 Speaker 3: board oparatus, so they'll fix it with whatever whatever it 125 00:06:33,693 --> 00:06:37,293 Speaker 3: takes to sell the the product cheaply. But you know, 126 00:06:37,333 --> 00:06:39,093 Speaker 3: you don't know if that fentanyl that is being used 127 00:06:39,093 --> 00:06:41,293 Speaker 3: in that situation or if it's just one particular person 128 00:06:41,333 --> 00:06:43,933 Speaker 3: who has access to the fentanyl that is legally available 129 00:06:43,973 --> 00:06:46,773 Speaker 3: to New Zealand, you know, and is buying it off 130 00:06:46,973 --> 00:06:50,493 Speaker 3: of people people that are getting it legitimately, which is 131 00:06:50,933 --> 00:06:53,773 Speaker 3: a lot of the way that the whole heroine the 132 00:06:53,853 --> 00:06:56,413 Speaker 3: cooking up the heroin situation work back in the day. 133 00:06:57,373 --> 00:06:58,893 Speaker 4: So we will we all know by the end of 134 00:06:58,933 --> 00:07:00,973 Speaker 4: summer a fenerol is a problem in this contribute, like 135 00:07:01,013 --> 00:07:03,653 Speaker 4: you say, because of the festivals and actually the drug 136 00:07:03,693 --> 00:07:06,093 Speaker 4: testing is something that I pushed hugely when it was 137 00:07:06,173 --> 00:07:08,653 Speaker 4: Minister of Police because I thought it was vice. You know, 138 00:07:08,653 --> 00:07:12,093 Speaker 4: if people are going to these festivals and taking pills, 139 00:07:12,133 --> 00:07:13,653 Speaker 4: they need to know what's in them. And you know, 140 00:07:13,693 --> 00:07:15,213 Speaker 4: there were some people who believe know what you do 141 00:07:15,253 --> 00:07:17,013 Speaker 4: as you're bury hid and sand because people shouldn't be 142 00:07:17,053 --> 00:07:19,493 Speaker 4: taking legal drugs. Well, of course they shouldn't, but that's 143 00:07:19,573 --> 00:07:21,493 Speaker 4: not dealing with the reality of the situation we find 144 00:07:21,493 --> 00:07:25,213 Speaker 4: themselves in. If we if fentanyl is being mixed in 145 00:07:25,253 --> 00:07:28,213 Speaker 4: with MDMA, and back in the day it wasn't vental, 146 00:07:28,213 --> 00:07:29,853 Speaker 4: it was almost everything else is being mixed in with 147 00:07:29,893 --> 00:07:32,453 Speaker 4: the DNA. So I think. I think at Rhythmond Vines, 148 00:07:33,013 --> 00:07:35,453 Speaker 4: I went up there one on the first of January, 149 00:07:35,493 --> 00:07:37,413 Speaker 4: and all the pills they tested, I think sixty percent 150 00:07:37,453 --> 00:07:39,893 Speaker 4: of them weren't what they said they were. But if 151 00:07:40,013 --> 00:07:42,573 Speaker 4: there is fentanyl being mixed in with MDMA, then I 152 00:07:42,693 --> 00:07:46,333 Speaker 4: have no doubt we will see deaths this summer at festivals. 153 00:07:46,373 --> 00:07:49,653 Speaker 4: And I hope like hell that we're that we're wrong 154 00:07:49,853 --> 00:07:52,013 Speaker 4: and we're not seeing fentanyl cousin with m dm A 155 00:07:52,213 --> 00:07:55,773 Speaker 4: in any in any sort of scale. If as mentioned, 156 00:07:55,773 --> 00:07:57,533 Speaker 4: the stuff that used to show up in the wastewater, 157 00:07:57,653 --> 00:08:00,053 Speaker 4: we it was so minimal we just thought it was 158 00:08:00,053 --> 00:08:02,813 Speaker 4: perhaps a clinic getting rid of old stuff, right, because 159 00:08:02,853 --> 00:08:05,253 Speaker 4: of course you can get ventanyl. And then my son 160 00:08:05,293 --> 00:08:07,933 Speaker 4: broke his leg seven weeks ago and he was given ventanyl. 161 00:08:07,973 --> 00:08:12,293 Speaker 3: I've had internal and I've had ventanyl. We're talking to 162 00:08:12,333 --> 00:08:15,573 Speaker 3: Stuart Naws, former Minister of Police. I've had ventanyl after 163 00:08:15,573 --> 00:08:18,733 Speaker 3: a procedure recently, and I can tell you it's it's 164 00:08:18,933 --> 00:08:22,013 Speaker 3: one of the most euro euphoric experiences of my life. 165 00:08:22,093 --> 00:08:23,893 Speaker 3: I was lying in the bed after the procedure on 166 00:08:24,053 --> 00:08:27,053 Speaker 3: fentanyl thinking where can I get more of this? Was 167 00:08:27,173 --> 00:08:29,533 Speaker 3: seriously I was seriously thinking where can I get more 168 00:08:29,573 --> 00:08:31,493 Speaker 3: of this? Once it wore off and I was sitting 169 00:08:31,493 --> 00:08:33,173 Speaker 3: on the couch at home, I had a big went 170 00:08:33,213 --> 00:08:35,813 Speaker 3: into a trough of some kind of deep you know, 171 00:08:35,852 --> 00:08:37,973 Speaker 3: the higher you go, the lower you get afterwards kind 172 00:08:38,013 --> 00:08:40,453 Speaker 3: of situation. But after that, I thought, I can see 173 00:08:40,453 --> 00:08:42,492 Speaker 3: why people give up their entire lives for the stroke. 174 00:08:43,252 --> 00:08:45,252 Speaker 4: Yeah. But what you said, what happens in the States 175 00:08:45,293 --> 00:08:49,013 Speaker 4: and Kendrien, North America, is they regularly prescribe opra woids 176 00:08:49,053 --> 00:08:53,213 Speaker 4: for pain relief, and so people became numerous programs in 177 00:08:53,293 --> 00:08:55,693 Speaker 4: this and such and variantant documentaries, and what happens is 178 00:08:55,732 --> 00:08:58,693 Speaker 4: people do become adapted to it, and once the prescription 179 00:08:58,813 --> 00:09:01,372 Speaker 4: runs out or the medical professional says you now no 180 00:09:01,453 --> 00:09:03,812 Speaker 4: longer lead that in order to deal with the issue 181 00:09:04,132 --> 00:09:06,773 Speaker 4: that you came to us for that they're past the 182 00:09:06,813 --> 00:09:09,893 Speaker 4: point of addiction. But what happened in New Zealand is very, 183 00:09:10,053 --> 00:09:14,053 Speaker 4: very really people prescribed opioids over the counter for pain relief, 184 00:09:14,132 --> 00:09:16,853 Speaker 4: so you haven't got the opportunity to become addicted. It's 185 00:09:16,892 --> 00:09:21,053 Speaker 4: the reason why we haven't got a thingfully epidemic, because 186 00:09:21,093 --> 00:09:25,652 Speaker 4: it's just not that the opioid prescription is not part 187 00:09:25,732 --> 00:09:28,053 Speaker 4: of our sort of medical DNA. You do have it, 188 00:09:28,093 --> 00:09:29,773 Speaker 4: like you say, in the situation you're in, like my 189 00:09:29,852 --> 00:09:33,453 Speaker 4: son is, but it provides very quick pain relief and 190 00:09:33,492 --> 00:09:36,493 Speaker 4: it is very effective at that. But you know, no 191 00:09:36,653 --> 00:09:40,373 Speaker 4: doctor would have given you a one month prescription of 192 00:09:40,453 --> 00:09:44,372 Speaker 4: fentanyl in order to manage pain after an operation. So 193 00:09:44,732 --> 00:09:47,093 Speaker 4: we've really got to give the police the tools needed 194 00:09:47,093 --> 00:09:49,173 Speaker 4: to go hard on this, and a lot harder than 195 00:09:49,173 --> 00:09:53,573 Speaker 4: they are like asset confiscation, you know, don't have a 196 00:09:53,573 --> 00:09:56,492 Speaker 4: limit on this. I think matches of the same view 197 00:09:56,492 --> 00:09:58,652 Speaker 4: as i am, Mike Mitchell, the current Minister of Police 198 00:09:59,293 --> 00:10:01,613 Speaker 4: is you've got to give the police the tools to 199 00:10:01,693 --> 00:10:04,053 Speaker 4: go really hard against these gangs. They make a lot 200 00:10:04,093 --> 00:10:07,252 Speaker 4: of money out of this. They do quite a good 201 00:10:07,293 --> 00:10:11,292 Speaker 4: job of protecting your sets and hiding it. Police often 202 00:10:11,372 --> 00:10:15,653 Speaker 4: know who the people are, but often are constrained by 203 00:10:16,093 --> 00:10:18,012 Speaker 4: you know, by the law in terms of what they 204 00:10:18,012 --> 00:10:21,173 Speaker 4: could do my view, has just given them the powers 205 00:10:21,293 --> 00:10:25,292 Speaker 4: necessary to go really hard and learn from what happened 206 00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:27,012 Speaker 4: with regard to meth em better mein and the amount 207 00:10:27,053 --> 00:10:30,253 Speaker 4: of money the gangs made. As mentioned, if federal is 208 00:10:30,293 --> 00:10:32,453 Speaker 4: coming to the country, and I'm not convinced that it's 209 00:10:32,492 --> 00:10:34,173 Speaker 4: because of the amount of money the gangs are making 210 00:10:34,173 --> 00:10:37,052 Speaker 4: out of and better mean and the distribution networks and 211 00:10:37,093 --> 00:10:39,333 Speaker 4: the international supplies they've got all sorted out that if 212 00:10:39,333 --> 00:10:42,333 Speaker 4: it is, and we see it at festivals, then we 213 00:10:42,453 --> 00:10:44,533 Speaker 4: will see deaths of that. There is no doubt. 214 00:10:45,173 --> 00:10:47,333 Speaker 3: So, as a former Minister of Police who has been 215 00:10:47,333 --> 00:10:50,413 Speaker 3: across the criminal side of drug abuse, is the carnage 216 00:10:50,612 --> 00:10:53,933 Speaker 3: of uppers like meth and fhetamine something to be worried 217 00:10:53,933 --> 00:10:58,453 Speaker 3: about more than the carnage from downers like opioids like 218 00:10:58,773 --> 00:11:02,172 Speaker 3: heroin and fentanyl. I mean, obviously there's personal tragedies in both, 219 00:11:02,173 --> 00:11:05,013 Speaker 3: but I'm talking about the carnage for the wider community 220 00:11:05,012 --> 00:11:07,213 Speaker 3: that we see from methan fetamine abuse. 221 00:11:08,413 --> 00:11:11,772 Speaker 4: That there are both bring their own level of carnage 222 00:11:11,813 --> 00:11:16,093 Speaker 4: and destroy lives, Detroit families, Detroit communities. And I was 223 00:11:16,093 --> 00:11:18,933 Speaker 4: in San Francisco recently, and you know, I used to 224 00:11:18,933 --> 00:11:20,493 Speaker 4: love going to that place I felt safe for in 225 00:11:20,533 --> 00:11:22,853 Speaker 4: New York and id in San Francisco. You know, the 226 00:11:22,852 --> 00:11:26,493 Speaker 4: opioid epidemic in the States is horrendous. And when I 227 00:11:26,533 --> 00:11:30,733 Speaker 4: see President Trump going after these drug runners, you know, 228 00:11:31,053 --> 00:11:35,293 Speaker 4: I actually back that stance. It is a real problem 229 00:11:35,293 --> 00:11:36,893 Speaker 4: in the States in a way that I don't think 230 00:11:36,933 --> 00:11:39,533 Speaker 4: we're aware. You know, all we see on the news 231 00:11:39,612 --> 00:11:42,973 Speaker 4: is is the US Coast Guard or the Navy going 232 00:11:43,012 --> 00:11:45,653 Speaker 4: after these boats that are running drugs from I think 233 00:11:45,773 --> 00:11:50,653 Speaker 4: predominantly Columbia. But it is a you know, if anyone 234 00:11:50,732 --> 00:11:52,573 Speaker 4: hasn't been to the United States or hasn't seen the 235 00:11:52,573 --> 00:11:55,252 Speaker 4: images of the carnage just as creating across North America, 236 00:11:55,612 --> 00:11:57,973 Speaker 4: then go online and you'll find it. Because there are 237 00:11:58,012 --> 00:12:02,172 Speaker 4: more people that die every year, I believe from fentanyl reddoses. Now, 238 00:12:02,173 --> 00:12:03,732 Speaker 4: these are the people who die let alone and we're 239 00:12:03,732 --> 00:12:06,012 Speaker 4: addicted to this thing and died in the Vietnam War. 240 00:12:06,053 --> 00:12:07,772 Speaker 4: I think I've got that stat right. If I haven't, 241 00:12:08,372 --> 00:12:10,973 Speaker 4: it's pretty stark anyway. So Americans are dying by the 242 00:12:11,093 --> 00:12:16,093 Speaker 4: thousands from the f from federal overdoses. But and methanphetamine 243 00:12:16,173 --> 00:12:19,293 Speaker 4: is you know, it's a problem in Middle America. That 244 00:12:19,333 --> 00:12:22,533 Speaker 4: there's no doubt. But like I said, I haven't heard 245 00:12:22,573 --> 00:12:25,372 Speaker 4: of fentinal coming into this country. When I got back 246 00:12:25,372 --> 00:12:29,253 Speaker 4: from the States, I bought about fifteen Time magazines. It 247 00:12:29,333 --> 00:12:32,373 Speaker 4: was the first time that Time magazine had ever devoted 248 00:12:32,372 --> 00:12:35,933 Speaker 4: a single issue to one issue, and it was the 249 00:12:35,933 --> 00:12:38,573 Speaker 4: fentanyl and the opioid issue. And I gave this to 250 00:12:38,612 --> 00:12:40,533 Speaker 4: the police and my colleagues and said, we've got to 251 00:12:40,612 --> 00:12:43,693 Speaker 4: have a strategy in place in case we see fenton 252 00:12:43,773 --> 00:12:46,372 Speaker 4: in this country, even if it's in the bottom jaw. 253 00:12:46,453 --> 00:12:47,773 Speaker 4: As soon as we see we've got to pull it 254 00:12:47,773 --> 00:12:48,613 Speaker 4: out and be ready for it. 255 00:12:48,732 --> 00:12:51,732 Speaker 2: Yep, Stuart, really good to get your thoughts on that. 256 00:12:51,732 --> 00:12:55,053 Speaker 2: That is Stuart Nash, former Minister of Police, who actually 257 00:12:55,132 --> 00:12:57,013 Speaker 2: drafted an action plan when it came to fentanyl. 258 00:12:57,492 --> 00:13:00,132 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks, that'd be listen live on 259 00:13:00,213 --> 00:13:03,173 Speaker 1: air or online and keep our shows with you wherever 260 00:13:03,213 --> 00:13:05,813 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on IRT Radio.