1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB. 3 00:00:12,747 --> 00:00:16,467 Speaker 2: It's a smolding and bubbling story. What is happening within 4 00:00:16,827 --> 00:00:20,027 Speaker 2: Z twenty, What is handling with franchise cricket. What is 5 00:00:20,067 --> 00:00:24,107 Speaker 2: the future of either Super Smash, Big Bash or revised 6 00:00:24,147 --> 00:00:28,347 Speaker 2: Super Smash or in Z twenty which is firming as 7 00:00:28,387 --> 00:00:31,587 Speaker 2: the favorite. In the fallout of this, New Zealand Cricket 8 00:00:31,627 --> 00:00:35,267 Speaker 2: have lost a CEO and it seems the Black Caps 9 00:00:35,387 --> 00:00:38,347 Speaker 2: playing in summer well, it already is a thing of 10 00:00:38,387 --> 00:00:41,467 Speaker 2: the past, but it might really be a constant thing 11 00:00:41,747 --> 00:00:44,947 Speaker 2: of the past. To discuss that and all the complexities 12 00:00:45,347 --> 00:00:49,467 Speaker 2: around this situation, we're joined by former New Zealand Cricket 13 00:00:49,587 --> 00:00:52,147 Speaker 2: CEO mister Justin Vaughan. 14 00:00:52,587 --> 00:00:57,067 Speaker 3: Hi, Justin, Yeah, get a Darcy. Good to hear your 15 00:00:57,147 --> 00:01:00,707 Speaker 3: voice again after quite a bit of a. 16 00:01:00,667 --> 00:01:05,467 Speaker 2: Break indeed, and thanks very much for acquiescing to this demand. 17 00:01:05,787 --> 00:01:09,027 Speaker 2: New Zealand is in a very interesting state right now 18 00:01:09,067 --> 00:01:12,787 Speaker 2: and that is probably the biggest understatement of the year. 19 00:01:13,307 --> 00:01:15,867 Speaker 2: They are caught between the rock and a hard place 20 00:01:16,027 --> 00:01:21,547 Speaker 2: around what happens next for not only their T twenty franchise, 21 00:01:21,667 --> 00:01:26,787 Speaker 2: but the international game the domestic game. It is messy 22 00:01:27,147 --> 00:01:30,107 Speaker 2: to say anything else from your position in Australia. What 23 00:01:30,227 --> 00:01:33,267 Speaker 2: have you noted about the ruckus going on at NZI 24 00:01:33,307 --> 00:01:34,707 Speaker 2: cricket right now? 25 00:01:36,107 --> 00:01:39,827 Speaker 3: Well, it's what could I say. I mean, it's been 26 00:01:39,867 --> 00:01:44,267 Speaker 3: coming for a long time. I mean the issue around 27 00:01:45,067 --> 00:01:49,347 Speaker 3: franchise cricket and it's impact on if you like, the 28 00:01:49,387 --> 00:01:53,187 Speaker 3: traditional way that cricket is operated, with a country versus 29 00:01:53,187 --> 00:01:59,827 Speaker 3: country model being paramount that the tension between those forces 30 00:02:00,267 --> 00:02:04,627 Speaker 3: has been obvious around the world. I mean we're currently 31 00:02:04,667 --> 00:02:09,827 Speaker 3: in Australia as well. And you know, even when I 32 00:02:09,907 --> 00:02:15,147 Speaker 3: was CEO over a decade ago, you could feel that 33 00:02:15,227 --> 00:02:19,587 Speaker 3: this was this was a train that was gathering momentum 34 00:02:19,627 --> 00:02:22,067 Speaker 3: and at some stage you were going to have to 35 00:02:22,107 --> 00:02:27,707 Speaker 3: make some really, really important and really difficult decisions. And 36 00:02:27,787 --> 00:02:31,747 Speaker 3: I think that time is coming very soon for New 37 00:02:31,827 --> 00:02:32,507 Speaker 3: Zealand cricket. 38 00:02:33,347 --> 00:02:36,307 Speaker 2: It's the dominant force in world cricket, whether you like 39 00:02:36,387 --> 00:02:38,907 Speaker 2: it or not. T twenty is here to stay and 40 00:02:38,947 --> 00:02:43,067 Speaker 2: it really is shaping the landscape, isn't it. With private 41 00:02:43,107 --> 00:02:46,907 Speaker 2: franchises first and foremost, that's where the money's at, and 42 00:02:46,947 --> 00:02:49,747 Speaker 2: that's where the eyeballs is at. Did you see this 43 00:02:49,907 --> 00:02:51,947 Speaker 2: domination continuing or growing. 44 00:02:54,427 --> 00:02:58,467 Speaker 3: I mean, it's hard to see it not, you know. 45 00:02:58,587 --> 00:03:02,187 Speaker 3: I mean I was born at a time when you know, 46 00:03:03,027 --> 00:03:07,187 Speaker 3: the summers were spent listening usually to the radio of 47 00:03:08,107 --> 00:03:12,547 Speaker 3: either domestic first class cricket or international long form cricket, 48 00:03:12,587 --> 00:03:16,667 Speaker 3: with test matches being obviously the pinnacle. And you know, 49 00:03:17,027 --> 00:03:23,307 Speaker 3: during my playing time, test cricket was still the type 50 00:03:23,307 --> 00:03:26,267 Speaker 3: of game that you aspired to do very well at, 51 00:03:26,547 --> 00:03:29,787 Speaker 3: and the short form cricket was fine, but it wasn't 52 00:03:30,227 --> 00:03:34,307 Speaker 3: anywhere near as dominating as what it is now. I 53 00:03:34,347 --> 00:03:38,587 Speaker 3: think now, if you were an aspiring teenager or a 54 00:03:40,667 --> 00:03:45,587 Speaker 3: child even younger, it would be hard push to not 55 00:03:45,747 --> 00:03:48,427 Speaker 3: want to do well at T twenty cricket. And that's 56 00:03:49,147 --> 00:03:51,267 Speaker 3: you know, I guess that's an evolution of the sport 57 00:03:53,107 --> 00:03:56,867 Speaker 3: and how national bodies and how the whole framework of 58 00:03:56,907 --> 00:04:03,747 Speaker 3: cricket internationally adapts to this as well. It's anyone's guess 59 00:04:03,827 --> 00:04:06,107 Speaker 3: how the landscape is going to look in ten years time. 60 00:04:09,307 --> 00:04:13,587 Speaker 3: I personally hope that test cricket remains and that it 61 00:04:13,667 --> 00:04:17,387 Speaker 3: is still seen as the you know, the original and 62 00:04:17,427 --> 00:04:21,067 Speaker 3: perhaps the purest form of the sport. But you know, 63 00:04:21,227 --> 00:04:25,707 Speaker 3: I'm a bit of a dinosaur. Maybe maybe that's old 64 00:04:25,747 --> 00:04:29,627 Speaker 3: fashioned thinking. So yeah, well we'll wait and see. I'm 65 00:04:29,667 --> 00:04:32,467 Speaker 3: a I'm a sort of spectator as much as everyone 66 00:04:32,507 --> 00:04:33,427 Speaker 3: else's listening. 67 00:04:33,627 --> 00:04:37,707 Speaker 2: It's very much a modern phenomenon. It's that whole tech talk, 68 00:04:37,947 --> 00:04:41,107 Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. We want entertainment, we 69 00:04:41,147 --> 00:04:44,187 Speaker 2: want it very fast, we want it done and dusted. 70 00:04:44,267 --> 00:04:48,627 Speaker 2: That's that's the way society is going. So it's completely understandable. 71 00:04:48,747 --> 00:04:50,227 Speaker 2: I suppose when you look at this, you've got to 72 00:04:50,587 --> 00:04:55,987 Speaker 2: hover above the entire global ecosystem of cricket to my eyes, 73 00:04:56,027 --> 00:05:00,107 Speaker 2: and you may disagree or agree the ic C, whether 74 00:05:00,147 --> 00:05:02,267 Speaker 2: that's through the BCCI or not. I don't know who 75 00:05:02,347 --> 00:05:05,227 Speaker 2: runs the show these days. They've got to establish some 76 00:05:05,547 --> 00:05:10,827 Speaker 2: form of international situation where there are distinct windows so 77 00:05:10,867 --> 00:05:13,427 Speaker 2: we know when our bilaterals are, what purpose they have, 78 00:05:13,827 --> 00:05:16,267 Speaker 2: the tests, so on and so forth, And that's the 79 00:05:16,307 --> 00:05:19,467 Speaker 2: only way the game can go forward if there's control 80 00:05:19,547 --> 00:05:22,387 Speaker 2: from above or is this a pipe dream for me? 81 00:05:22,627 --> 00:05:28,547 Speaker 3: Justin No, I don't think it is wanting your you know, 82 00:05:28,627 --> 00:05:32,467 Speaker 3: the governing body internationally to create a framework around which 83 00:05:32,827 --> 00:05:37,187 Speaker 3: sort of member countries can operate I think is reasonable, 84 00:05:38,227 --> 00:05:41,467 Speaker 3: But it is very complicated. You know, you see that 85 00:05:41,507 --> 00:05:44,547 Speaker 3: issue in rugby as well, talking about having a global 86 00:05:44,587 --> 00:05:48,107 Speaker 3: calendar or you know, a way that that sport can operate, 87 00:05:48,507 --> 00:05:52,347 Speaker 3: and cricket's just the same. I mean, you've got you know, 88 00:05:52,467 --> 00:05:55,627 Speaker 3: only certain you can only play cricket in New Zealand 89 00:05:55,707 --> 00:05:58,507 Speaker 3: during certain months of the year. You can only play 90 00:05:58,547 --> 00:06:01,827 Speaker 3: cricket in India or in England at certain times of 91 00:06:01,867 --> 00:06:05,667 Speaker 3: the year. And so when do you play if you 92 00:06:05,827 --> 00:06:11,667 Speaker 3: like the country versus country forms and when theos you know, 93 00:06:11,867 --> 00:06:18,067 Speaker 3: and can you also fit in domestic competitions which you know, 94 00:06:18,147 --> 00:06:21,067 Speaker 3: it's such a challenge. It's such a challenge. Obviously when 95 00:06:21,067 --> 00:06:25,907 Speaker 3: I was CEO, the IPL started and there was a 96 00:06:25,907 --> 00:06:28,667 Speaker 3: lot of pressure for the players to be able to 97 00:06:28,667 --> 00:06:32,107 Speaker 3: play in that competition and that meant giving them, if 98 00:06:32,107 --> 00:06:38,467 Speaker 3: you like, leave during the period particularly April and the 99 00:06:38,507 --> 00:06:42,907 Speaker 3: start of May. And most other countries allow their players 100 00:06:42,947 --> 00:06:46,227 Speaker 3: to play in the IPL. But even just with the 101 00:06:46,267 --> 00:06:50,427 Speaker 3: i PL, which is now extended beyond six week tournament 102 00:06:50,427 --> 00:06:54,587 Speaker 3: it was when it started, you know that that's now 103 00:06:55,947 --> 00:06:59,387 Speaker 3: reducing the amount of time when the players play for 104 00:06:59,427 --> 00:07:04,427 Speaker 3: their country, and every time you create these windows for 105 00:07:04,947 --> 00:07:07,947 Speaker 3: franchise competition or whether it's going to be reversed and 106 00:07:08,187 --> 00:07:12,387 Speaker 3: you create windows for when the countries play against each other. 107 00:07:12,627 --> 00:07:16,587 Speaker 3: It's a big undertaking and it takes a lot of 108 00:07:17,347 --> 00:07:21,587 Speaker 3: work at the international level and domestically to be able 109 00:07:21,587 --> 00:07:26,627 Speaker 3: to adapt to that is. Yeah, it's a it's a 110 00:07:26,627 --> 00:07:32,627 Speaker 3: big Rubik's cube, Darcy, you know, and but you do 111 00:07:32,787 --> 00:07:36,387 Speaker 3: have to be very conscious of what's happening. It's the globe. 112 00:07:36,947 --> 00:07:39,747 Speaker 2: I think New Zealand Cricket have been very nimble so 113 00:07:39,987 --> 00:07:44,787 Speaker 2: far with their ability to essentially contract players or not, 114 00:07:45,027 --> 00:07:47,147 Speaker 2: and a lot of players are making the most of 115 00:07:47,187 --> 00:07:51,987 Speaker 2: that because this is a year round earnings potential for 116 00:07:52,107 --> 00:07:54,227 Speaker 2: these players and they're going to look at that and say, well, 117 00:07:54,227 --> 00:07:56,907 Speaker 2: I can make decent money here. But I don't think 118 00:07:57,067 --> 00:08:02,067 Speaker 2: you can bow down to the top level players at 119 00:08:02,107 --> 00:08:06,587 Speaker 2: the risk of decimating the grassroots of the game. And 120 00:08:06,787 --> 00:08:09,547 Speaker 2: this is something that New Zealand Cricket have to seriously 121 00:08:09,587 --> 00:08:12,067 Speaker 2: think about. It's all very well for the big guns 122 00:08:12,107 --> 00:08:14,507 Speaker 2: to make all the money, but if they were to 123 00:08:14,547 --> 00:08:19,107 Speaker 2: say lose control through various franchise crickets or the MZ 124 00:08:19,307 --> 00:08:23,107 Speaker 2: twenty for example, I to seed control through that, how 125 00:08:23,227 --> 00:08:26,267 Speaker 2: much would that affect it at the grassroots. Tell me 126 00:08:26,307 --> 00:08:29,107 Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, But surely in New Zealand cricket's job 127 00:08:29,267 --> 00:08:32,267 Speaker 2: is to look after cricket as a whole in the country, 128 00:08:32,547 --> 00:08:35,267 Speaker 2: not just worry about top level regardless of the trickle 129 00:08:35,267 --> 00:08:35,907 Speaker 2: down of income. 130 00:08:37,347 --> 00:08:43,027 Speaker 3: No, it is. And now you would like to think 131 00:08:43,027 --> 00:08:45,507 Speaker 3: you could have your cake and eat it too, that 132 00:08:46,787 --> 00:08:48,787 Speaker 3: you know, your top players could be going around the 133 00:08:48,787 --> 00:08:52,227 Speaker 3: world earning you know, a lot of money. I mean 134 00:08:52,227 --> 00:08:55,627 Speaker 3: you see that. Let's say, for example, in soccer or football, 135 00:08:56,147 --> 00:08:58,947 Speaker 3: you know players go around the world and that make 136 00:08:58,947 --> 00:09:02,227 Speaker 3: a lot of money. Kids still want to play football 137 00:09:02,267 --> 00:09:05,107 Speaker 3: because they see it on television and they and there 138 00:09:05,147 --> 00:09:12,067 Speaker 3: is a stroll domestic grassroots structure that's supported that way. 139 00:09:12,187 --> 00:09:17,147 Speaker 3: Cricket hasn't been like that. That We're very much relied 140 00:09:17,267 --> 00:09:22,987 Speaker 3: upon international cricket during a New Zealand summer usually in January, 141 00:09:24,747 --> 00:09:28,307 Speaker 3: to bring eyeballs to the game, to sort of get 142 00:09:28,427 --> 00:09:33,107 Speaker 3: kids along to watch their heroes play. That's been the model, 143 00:09:35,547 --> 00:09:38,787 Speaker 3: is that the model forever in the day. Look, I 144 00:09:38,907 --> 00:09:45,507 Speaker 3: don't know, it's the issue is going to be that 145 00:09:45,547 --> 00:09:50,627 Speaker 3: whatever decisions you make, that those decisions are reasonably irreversible, 146 00:09:51,067 --> 00:09:54,107 Speaker 3: that if they were to create a franchise based competition 147 00:09:55,267 --> 00:10:01,227 Speaker 3: and you're selling equity in teams to private investment. That 148 00:10:01,387 --> 00:10:05,267 Speaker 3: isn't something that can be reversed very quickly. So you've 149 00:10:05,267 --> 00:10:08,627 Speaker 3: got to be really sure that what you're doing is 150 00:10:08,667 --> 00:10:10,867 Speaker 3: in the best interests of the game. And as you say, 151 00:10:12,067 --> 00:10:14,747 Speaker 3: the obligation in New Zealand cricket is to look after 152 00:10:14,867 --> 00:10:23,547 Speaker 3: the game in its entirety from spectators, grassroots participation, from 153 00:10:23,787 --> 00:10:27,867 Speaker 3: schools through the clubs and then to have a high 154 00:10:27,867 --> 00:10:32,107 Speaker 3: performance sort of professional level of the sport all the 155 00:10:32,147 --> 00:10:35,547 Speaker 3: way through. So those are the challenges that have faced 156 00:10:36,027 --> 00:10:39,987 Speaker 3: the board and you know, the New Zealand Cricket as 157 00:10:39,987 --> 00:10:41,987 Speaker 3: a whole, to try and figure out what the best 158 00:10:42,107 --> 00:10:43,147 Speaker 3: part forward's going to be. 159 00:10:43,667 --> 00:10:46,587 Speaker 2: Scott, we think stepped down from his role, lost his role, 160 00:10:46,787 --> 00:10:49,147 Speaker 2: lost the faith in the board based on his fact 161 00:10:49,187 --> 00:10:52,267 Speaker 2: he wanted to do due diligence when it comes to 162 00:10:52,307 --> 00:10:55,187 Speaker 2: the reforming of franchise cricket. Here be at Super Smash 163 00:10:55,227 --> 00:10:58,427 Speaker 2: Big Bash in ZED twenty. From what I can gather, 164 00:10:59,187 --> 00:11:01,707 Speaker 2: he wanted to take a bit of time in ZED 165 00:11:01,827 --> 00:11:05,667 Speaker 2: twenty though, which is the preferred format if you talk 166 00:11:05,707 --> 00:11:09,307 Speaker 2: to most people in the cricketing world. The players particularly 167 00:11:09,947 --> 00:11:14,907 Speaker 2: there's been a need to get this I suppose underlined 168 00:11:14,947 --> 00:11:19,347 Speaker 2: and done and tied up now. So a hasty decision 169 00:11:19,547 --> 00:11:22,987 Speaker 2: because they need to start it in January. I'm not 170 00:11:23,027 --> 00:11:26,547 Speaker 2: sure if anyone made a great decision in haste, and 171 00:11:26,787 --> 00:11:30,267 Speaker 2: Scott didn't want to do that probably cost him as job. 172 00:11:30,947 --> 00:11:33,227 Speaker 2: Do you think it's fair to lay that pressure on, 173 00:11:33,347 --> 00:11:36,547 Speaker 2: say we need to do it now. That's a bit 174 00:11:36,667 --> 00:11:37,307 Speaker 2: pushy or. 175 00:11:39,267 --> 00:11:42,507 Speaker 3: Ah? I guess I'm not close enough to the detail 176 00:11:42,587 --> 00:11:44,867 Speaker 3: to be able to sort of really understand, but you 177 00:11:44,987 --> 00:11:49,547 Speaker 3: do need this is a this is a decision which, 178 00:11:49,587 --> 00:11:52,547 Speaker 3: as I said, has got You know, you can't reverse 179 00:11:52,587 --> 00:11:55,747 Speaker 3: out of the decisions you make easily, so it needs 180 00:11:55,787 --> 00:11:59,427 Speaker 3: to be thought through very carefully. That isn't to say 181 00:11:59,467 --> 00:12:02,707 Speaker 3: that you don't make any decision. You have to choose 182 00:12:02,747 --> 00:12:04,267 Speaker 3: what you're going to do, I mean, but at the 183 00:12:04,307 --> 00:12:08,107 Speaker 3: same time, you do need to be aware of what's 184 00:12:08,147 --> 00:12:12,187 Speaker 3: happening internationally and what's happening with the structure of the 185 00:12:12,187 --> 00:12:16,867 Speaker 3: game around the world. How many of these franchise competitions 186 00:12:16,907 --> 00:12:20,107 Speaker 3: can the sport bear, Because if you're looking at January, 187 00:12:21,307 --> 00:12:23,067 Speaker 3: then the issue is going to be that you've already 188 00:12:23,107 --> 00:12:25,787 Speaker 3: got the big Bash operating in Australia, You've got the 189 00:12:25,827 --> 00:12:28,587 Speaker 3: South African TA twenty competition operating, and you've also got 190 00:12:28,587 --> 00:12:33,787 Speaker 3: the ILT twenty going on in the Middle East, which 191 00:12:34,467 --> 00:12:37,347 Speaker 3: you know, that's quite a lot of T twenty cricket 192 00:12:37,387 --> 00:12:42,747 Speaker 3: going on around the world. So look, there are it's complicated. 193 00:12:43,147 --> 00:12:45,147 Speaker 3: New Zealan create needs to get their head around it 194 00:12:45,547 --> 00:12:48,627 Speaker 3: and they will need to make a decision fairly quickly. 195 00:12:48,707 --> 00:12:53,227 Speaker 3: But there are a number of considerations, which means I 196 00:12:53,267 --> 00:12:56,667 Speaker 3: sort of understand why you might want to think carefully 197 00:12:57,307 --> 00:12:59,147 Speaker 3: before you actually jump. 198 00:12:59,747 --> 00:13:03,267 Speaker 2: I'm sure they're thinking carefully. I don't think they're fools 199 00:13:03,347 --> 00:13:06,587 Speaker 2: rushing any more. Angels fear to treat. They understand that 200 00:13:06,667 --> 00:13:09,587 Speaker 2: the weight of this decisions a lot of pressure coming 201 00:13:09,587 --> 00:13:12,307 Speaker 2: from the player base and when push comes to South 202 00:13:12,627 --> 00:13:15,547 Speaker 2: we know about domestic cricket and grassroots cricket, but people 203 00:13:15,587 --> 00:13:18,587 Speaker 2: want to see these stars play and if you lose 204 00:13:18,627 --> 00:13:22,027 Speaker 2: them to the international game, it's a punch in the nose. 205 00:13:22,147 --> 00:13:25,067 Speaker 2: And if you look at the January window, this is 206 00:13:25,227 --> 00:13:27,667 Speaker 2: what it used to be a time where we would 207 00:13:27,667 --> 00:13:32,347 Speaker 2: see international cricket over here. That's rabbishly rapidly diminishing. Now 208 00:13:32,667 --> 00:13:37,227 Speaker 2: that situation so it's a question of do you sacrifice 209 00:13:37,347 --> 00:13:41,147 Speaker 2: the good of international cricket at the altar of the 210 00:13:41,187 --> 00:13:44,947 Speaker 2: T twenty franchise system, And we've even experienced that. I'm 211 00:13:44,987 --> 00:13:48,507 Speaker 2: not sure if that's good for the game and your experience. 212 00:13:48,787 --> 00:13:50,747 Speaker 2: Would you like that to happen? 213 00:13:55,067 --> 00:13:59,387 Speaker 3: The horse to a degree has bolted on that. You know, 214 00:13:59,507 --> 00:14:03,347 Speaker 3: these franchises are operating around the world. Players could make, 215 00:14:03,827 --> 00:14:07,867 Speaker 3: you know, significant amounts of money playing in those competitions, 216 00:14:08,027 --> 00:14:10,907 Speaker 3: and that's great. You know, it's good to have that 217 00:14:10,947 --> 00:14:19,027 Speaker 3: commercial engine for the sport. The issue is going to 218 00:14:19,027 --> 00:14:27,627 Speaker 3: be how do you fit in proper international cricket, particularly 219 00:14:27,627 --> 00:14:31,147 Speaker 3: in the country like New Zealand where your calendar is 220 00:14:31,307 --> 00:14:38,587 Speaker 3: limited by the weather. You know, I was slightly bewildered. 221 00:14:38,627 --> 00:14:41,787 Speaker 3: I tried to watch a series between the Black Caps 222 00:14:41,787 --> 00:14:46,227 Speaker 3: and Australia which was staged for October in New Zealand 223 00:14:46,627 --> 00:14:50,587 Speaker 3: last you know, during the summer, just being and hey, presto, 224 00:14:50,747 --> 00:14:55,107 Speaker 3: of course it was weather affected. The chances of playing 225 00:14:55,547 --> 00:14:59,147 Speaker 3: you know, good cricket in New Zealand are pretty much 226 00:14:59,187 --> 00:15:06,067 Speaker 3: limited to probably three months of the year, so you know, 227 00:15:06,987 --> 00:15:11,027 Speaker 3: and how can you make sure at the same time 228 00:15:11,107 --> 00:15:12,987 Speaker 3: that you're going to be able to have the top 229 00:15:13,027 --> 00:15:16,907 Speaker 3: tier countries visiting your country to play series of Test 230 00:15:16,947 --> 00:15:20,507 Speaker 3: cricket or ad I and T twenty cricket at the 231 00:15:20,507 --> 00:15:23,427 Speaker 3: time when you want them to, because they may not 232 00:15:23,627 --> 00:15:26,787 Speaker 3: be able to come at that time. We saw the issue. 233 00:15:27,147 --> 00:15:29,387 Speaker 3: Was it a summer or two ago when South Africa 234 00:15:29,467 --> 00:15:33,627 Speaker 3: sent basically their seatam to New Zealand because they wanted 235 00:15:33,667 --> 00:15:37,947 Speaker 3: their top play in their franchise T twenty competition back 236 00:15:37,947 --> 00:15:45,427 Speaker 3: at home. That doesn't look good to me in terms 237 00:15:45,467 --> 00:15:49,267 Speaker 3: of preserving the integrity of international cricket of country versus 238 00:15:49,267 --> 00:15:54,147 Speaker 3: country cricket. So there's got to be a way through this. 239 00:15:54,427 --> 00:16:00,307 Speaker 3: I just you know, it's really tricky. You know, it 240 00:16:00,347 --> 00:16:02,307 Speaker 3: would be great if New Zealand could have a franchise 241 00:16:02,387 --> 00:16:07,827 Speaker 3: competition and we could have a sort of a thriving 242 00:16:08,667 --> 00:16:13,027 Speaker 3: Black Caps team playing at the time when you know 243 00:16:13,067 --> 00:16:15,947 Speaker 3: New Zealanders can watch them play in their backyard. I 244 00:16:15,987 --> 00:16:18,547 Speaker 3: would love that to be able to happen. Can it happen? 245 00:16:19,347 --> 00:16:20,467 Speaker 3: I'm really not sure. 246 00:16:21,347 --> 00:16:25,027 Speaker 2: Very interesting article in The Australian by Andrew Jones, like 247 00:16:25,267 --> 00:16:28,707 Speaker 2: referencing the BBL on the way that is developing, and 248 00:16:28,747 --> 00:16:32,787 Speaker 2: he makes the point that cricket Australia and private investors 249 00:16:33,147 --> 00:16:37,987 Speaker 2: in the BBL are very different goals and incentives. Investers 250 00:16:38,027 --> 00:16:40,347 Speaker 2: want to make money, ca need to grow the game. 251 00:16:40,667 --> 00:16:43,747 Speaker 2: And he finishes with this wonderful quote, it's hard to 252 00:16:43,787 --> 00:16:46,987 Speaker 2: serve two masters, or put more bluntly, it's hard to 253 00:16:47,067 --> 00:16:51,427 Speaker 2: ride two horses with one ass. And that probably summarizes it, 254 00:16:51,427 --> 00:16:52,467 Speaker 2: doesn't it justin. 255 00:16:53,827 --> 00:16:57,547 Speaker 3: Yes, there are forces pulling you in many different directions. 256 00:16:58,307 --> 00:17:02,027 Speaker 3: Cricket Australia is facing exactly the same issue really that 257 00:17:02,707 --> 00:17:05,987 Speaker 3: New Zealand Cricket is that BBL has operated for a 258 00:17:05,987 --> 00:17:09,987 Speaker 3: while is now talk about bringing in private investment. They 259 00:17:10,027 --> 00:17:13,387 Speaker 3: haven't decided whether that's going to happen or not, and 260 00:17:13,427 --> 00:17:16,627 Speaker 3: if so, to what degree and what level of control 261 00:17:17,187 --> 00:17:20,547 Speaker 3: Cricket Australia will have over that competition. And it's exactly 262 00:17:20,547 --> 00:17:25,107 Speaker 3: the same question that New Zealand Cricket is grappling with. Yeah, 263 00:17:25,227 --> 00:17:27,627 Speaker 3: it'll be fascinating to see what takes place over the 264 00:17:27,667 --> 00:17:28,707 Speaker 3: next two or three months. 265 00:17:28,907 --> 00:17:33,547 Speaker 2: Break out the popcorn. Justin Vorm Vaughan, former CEO of 266 00:17:33,867 --> 00:17:35,587 Speaker 2: n ZED Cricket. We thank you so much for your 267 00:17:35,587 --> 00:17:38,627 Speaker 2: time and your opinions. You look after yourself and have 268 00:17:38,627 --> 00:17:39,707 Speaker 2: a tremendous weekend. 269 00:17:40,947 --> 00:17:42,787 Speaker 3: Thanks a lot, Darcy, good to talk to you. 270 00:17:43,147 --> 00:17:45,547 Speaker 2: And always great to talk to you. The Good Doctor 271 00:17:45,867 --> 00:17:49,427 Speaker 2: Justin Vaughan for my CEO of n Z Cricket, with 272 00:17:49,507 --> 00:17:54,827 Speaker 2: his opinions and thoughts around the tumult surrounding when New 273 00:17:54,907 --> 00:17:59,867 Speaker 2: Zealand Cricket goes in the future, specifically with the franchise situation. 274 00:18:00,907 --> 00:18:04,107 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 275 00:18:04,227 --> 00:18:07,587 Speaker 1: to news Talk zed Be weekends from or follow the 276 00:18:07,627 --> 00:18:09,147 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.