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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Helly you Great New Zealands. Welcome to Matt and Tyler

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Speaker 2: Full Show Podcast number one four six for Monday eighty

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Speaker 2: sixtheenths of jan twenty twenty five. June June. Is it

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Speaker 2: one four six?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think it's one four six.

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Speaker 2: It's Tevenie night. Jan. It's not. It might be one

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Speaker 2: four six, but it's not Jane. It's definitely. It's definitely June.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, go back in time that much.

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Speaker 2: But that's just because I was rocked to the core

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Speaker 2: by how good the show was today. Way for this

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Speaker 2: great call from Kira and we talked to her for

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Speaker 2: a long time, an American living in New Zealand that

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Speaker 2: had been through a very interesting situation with NASA and

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Speaker 2: this is all on the back out discussion about the

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Speaker 2: Ocean Gate the Titan Submersible Disasters documentary on Netflix. But

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Speaker 2: she took the disasters to space and it was a

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Speaker 2: very very good chat. Yeah, one of the best calls

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Speaker 2: with so she was incredible. We're going to get her

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Speaker 2: back as well.

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Speaker 4: But you'll hear a when when you get to that,

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Speaker 4: and also great discussion about out of Zoner's School, some

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Speaker 4: controversial takes on that one. That was a good chat. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: absolutely all right, so download subscribe, give us a review

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Speaker 4: all that good stuff. You know, we love you.

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Speaker 1: Give them a taste of killing love the big stories,

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Speaker 1: the big issues, the big trends, and everything in between.

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Speaker 1: Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons News Talk said the.

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Speaker 4: Good afternoon to you. Welcome into the show on this Monday.

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Speaker 4: It is a short week for many people. We all

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Speaker 4: love that mup at Ikey on Friday, but great to

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Speaker 4: if your company is always get a map.

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Speaker 2: Get Ay, Tyler and all your great New Zealanders. We've

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Speaker 2: cobbled together a pretty fantastic three hours of radio for you.

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Speaker 4: Certainly have no Just before we get to that, we

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Speaker 4: were talking about Sunday Roast last week and that went

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Speaker 4: off so many people wanted to chat about Sunday Roast

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Speaker 4: and I got a bit heated over pro or corn snips.

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Speaker 4: But you sent me a photo over the weekend for

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Speaker 4: Sunday Roast that you were doing, actually a lunchtime Sunday roast.

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Speaker 2: I always see this Sunday Roast at lunchtime? Do you

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Speaker 2: do it at night?

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Speaker 4: Always at night?

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Speaker 5: Wow?

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Speaker 2: We've always been lunch yeah.

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Speaker 4: Sunday roast for tea, Oh wow, but I kind of

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Speaker 4: like the lunchtime roast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So what do you think that we've got to

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Speaker 2: go the chicken. We have the chicken roast. You get

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Speaker 2: your potatoes in there, you got kumera, you got a

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Speaker 2: bit of pump You've got some Yorkshire puddings and and

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Speaker 2: a lentil roast.

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Speaker 4: Are they minted peas as well?

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Speaker 2: These frozen peas. I just put a bit of peas

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Speaker 2: in there, just so there's some green. Otherwise it's all

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Speaker 2: brown and beigey kind of colors.

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Speaker 4: So that was my initial thoughts. She's pretty brown, a.

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Speaker 2: Virtue signal with just boiling up some frozen peas at

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Speaker 2: the end.

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Speaker 4: Overall, probably a solid eight out of ten, except for

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Speaker 4: what I can't get over is the gravy. You've been

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Speaker 4: real stingy on the gravy and it is so thick,

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Speaker 4: that's like sludge.

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Speaker 2: I'm a huge believer of just piling up that cornflower

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Speaker 2: into the fat and making the gravy as flack as possible.

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Speaker 4: Clearly looks like some mint.

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Speaker 2: I like it to be like a jelly.

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Speaker 4: But you could have gone you could have is that

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Speaker 4: your plaid? I take it you could have been a

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Speaker 4: bit more generous. So to try and explain this, you've

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Speaker 4: got about two teaspoons of gravy on your piece of chicken.

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Speaker 2: There none on the peas. Well, that's because my kids

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Speaker 2: got at the gravy bucket before I did. But you'll

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Speaker 2: notice here that I made my own mint sauce there,

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Speaker 2: and that is way too I just over minted. There

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Speaker 2: was too much mint in the mint sauce.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, you got too excited.

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Speaker 4: That's what happened here, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, other people that had Sunday roast over the weekend.

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Speaker 2: I only imagine that. Oh, hang on a minute, I've

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Speaker 2: got to think a textra. I don't know who they were.

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Speaker 2: Nine two, nine to two. They said, make your Yorkshire

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Speaker 2: puddings in the air fry, and never before. My son,

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Speaker 2: my son bears he made the Yorkshires, and they were

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Speaker 2: so fluffy and so tasty just by making them their

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Speaker 2: fry because you can ram it up to two hundred degrees. Well,

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Speaker 2: you're still roasting everything else at one eighty genius.

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Speaker 4: They do look like supple Yorkshire plus soou flats well done.

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Speaker 4: Right on to today's show after three o'clock Have you

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Speaker 4: bought a crap property?

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Speaker 2: So this is after a story. It's on the Herald now.

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Speaker 4: It's a dilapidated in the cargo house and it is

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Speaker 4: a state So it was sold for one hundred and

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Speaker 4: fifty four thousand bucks. But the interesting part is that

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Speaker 4: there were so many people bidding for it, and most

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Speaker 4: of them, according to the agent, want to do up

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Speaker 4: the house. They don't want to bowl it. They actually

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Speaker 4: want to do this thing up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I love the idea of buying a rubbish

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Speaker 2: house and then doing it up myself, but I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I painted my house recently, one of my houses recently.

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Speaker 2: I shouldn't say that. Well, I painted my house recently.

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Speaker 2: That's out now and boy that was a lot of

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Speaker 2: hard work, replacing the weatherboards and stuff. But I loved it.

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Speaker 2: The feeling of satisfaction at the end of it was

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Speaker 2: just so good to have done something yourself. But there's

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Speaker 2: another situation with another house where I got people to

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Speaker 2: do it up and that didn'tel quite good. But it

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Speaker 2: was the first house was that. The other house was

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Speaker 2: an absolute rubbish house when I.

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Speaker 4: Bought it, and the one I've seen with the paint job,

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Speaker 4: that was a pretty good bank.

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Speaker 2: No, that's another one.

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Speaker 4: Oh, that's another one here.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, that was what I did. The paint job was good.

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Speaker 2: That was a solid paint job on there. Anyway, Have

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Speaker 2: you bought a horribly run down house and done it

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Speaker 2: up that I want to hear the satisfaction of it.

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Speaker 2: Or have you bought what people might call the worst house,

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Speaker 2: lived in it and loved it? Yep, the oldest. Just

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Speaker 2: just just let it be, Just let it be.

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Speaker 4: I've known some people that take years and years to

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Speaker 4: do a bit of diy. But anyway, that's after three o'clock.

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Speaker 4: After two o'clock. The documentary everybody is talking about it

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Speaker 4: launched on Netflix over the weekend. The title is Titan

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Speaker 4: the Ocean Gate Disaster. And we all remember that this

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Speaker 4: was this sub that went down to the Titanic and exploded.

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Speaker 4: But the documentary itself is incredibly compelling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the most what show in the country at

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Speaker 2: the moment. What are your thoughts on this whole Titan situation?

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Speaker 2: And look, I mean the wider Christian is how do

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Speaker 2: you deal with the boss who is going in the

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Speaker 2: wrong direction? Because that's what you get from it from

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Speaker 2: the Stockton Rush the CEO. Have you stood up to

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Speaker 2: a boss and how did that go? Have you taken

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Speaker 2: a stand and left a company because you thought what

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Speaker 2: was happening was not right? We'd love to hear from you.

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Speaker 2: Tony Nissan, the Ocean Gate head of engineering, said, I

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Speaker 2: thought Stockton was a borderline psychopath. How do you manage

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Speaker 2: a person like that who owns the company? A very

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Speaker 2: good question.

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Speaker 4: Yeah that is after two o'clock, that's going to be

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Speaker 4: really interesting. But right now, let's have a chat about

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Speaker 4: growing concern over schools not having enough room to be

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Speaker 4: able to cope with growing demand and population growth. So

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Speaker 4: Auckland's biggest school, Funger Toto, has said over the weekend

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Speaker 4: they won't accept any more out of zone students from

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Speaker 4: next year as that role pressure has forced it to

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Speaker 4: close its books. But they're not the only ones are.

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Speaker 4: The principle of Mount Albert Grammar Patrick Drum says they're

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Speaker 4: in a similar position and building a new school or

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Speaker 4: schools in central Auckland must be a priority. But it's

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Speaker 4: a similar picture in christ Chuch Wellington. Many many of

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Speaker 4: the top schools are at capacity or over capacity already.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so do we need to build in your small

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Speaker 2: schools before we allow any migration into the country. That

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Speaker 2: be an interesting question. But also to parents just need

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Speaker 2: to harden up and just to send their kids to

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Speaker 2: their local school. Is the problem that you have these

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Speaker 2: schools and fantastic schools like Mount Albert Grammar that which

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Speaker 2: is just a very well run school, Patrick Drum, the

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Speaker 2: principal's fantastic, whole thing's brilliant, but it is absolutely rammed.

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Speaker 2: They do not have space for any more people. So

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Speaker 2: do we just need parents to send their kids to

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Speaker 2: the local skill and not just be trying to shoehorn

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Speaker 2: their kids into these good skills, because you know, I'd

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Speaker 2: like to hear from people that did that and how

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Speaker 2: it turned out, Like, you know, did you send your

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Speaker 2: kids to an unfancy school and what happened? Was it

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Speaker 2: good or was it terrible? Is the problem just scared

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Speaker 2: parents as opposed to a lack of schools.

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Speaker 4: Because when these top schools are over capacity, it kind

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Speaker 4: of defeats the purpose, right that if you are so

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Speaker 4: desperate to get them into these top schools.

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Speaker 2: A part of that is that there's a bit.

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Speaker 4: More hands on, hopefully for your kid, right, But when

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Speaker 4: they chock a block and over capacity and they've got

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Speaker 4: two many children, even if they are top of the

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Speaker 4: top of the pops in terms of school and education

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Speaker 4: and principles and teachers, you're still not going to get

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Speaker 4: that same hands on approach with your job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's no guarantee just because you move heaven

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Speaker 2: and Earth get your kids into the school that you

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Speaker 2: think is the perfect school, that they will turn out. Okay,

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it's the struggle that makes the kid.

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Speaker 4: That's a good point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you know. I mean I went to an unfancied school.

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Speaker 4: Yep, you went to a low socio No, what's the

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Speaker 4: system that they use this testyle?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Logan Park and Dunedin Grade school and look at you,

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Speaker 2: but not a fancied school.

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Speaker 4: Yeah you know, and look how you turned out. Fantastic, terrible.

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Speaker 4: It's a disaster. Oh eight hundred eight ten eighty is

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Speaker 4: the number to call if your appearance. Have you been

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Speaker 4: butting your head up against the brick wall trying to

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Speaker 4: get your kid into your chosen school or does it

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Speaker 4: really matter?

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Speaker 2: And can I just think Sharon. Sharon was the person

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Speaker 2: that suggested making the Yorkshire pods in the air fry.

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Speaker 2: Brilliant suggestion, Thank you Sharon, that worked at absolutely.

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Speaker 4: Good on your Sharon. It is fourteen past one, but

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Speaker 4: love to hear your thoughts. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten

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Speaker 4: eighty is it to get your kid into a school

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Speaker 4: of your choosing or if you've just put them into

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Speaker 4: the local school in your zone, are you happy with that?

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Speaker 6: Really?

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Speaker 4: Tend to hear from you fourteen past one.

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Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and

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Speaker 1: everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used

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Speaker 1: talks that'd be.

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Speaker 4: Very good afternoon seventeen past one. So Auckland's biggest school,

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Speaker 4: high School, won't accept out of zone students next year

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Speaker 4: as population growth and role pressure forces it to close

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Speaker 4: its books. This is of course throwing a Toto college.

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Speaker 4: And it's not alone. There are other top schools within Auckland,

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Speaker 4: christ Church jam Wellington that are over capacity and they're

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Speaker 4: now having to say they cannot accept any more out

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Speaker 4: of zone applications, even if their siblings go to the

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Speaker 4: same school. And that was traditionally a big thing wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: So why are you trying to send your kids to

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Speaker 2: out of zone schools? If you don't live in the zone,

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Speaker 2: then it's not your school. This text would disagree with

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Speaker 2: me on that everyone should be able to send their

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Speaker 2: kids to the good school. Where you live shouldn't come

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Speaker 2: into it. We all pay tax. Yeah, but how does

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Speaker 2: that work them in the school? You know, a bucket

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Speaker 2: can only take so much water if you've got it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's a point when some of these schools

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Speaker 2: are getting three and a half thousand people in them

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Speaker 2: and they're not built for that. You just can't keep

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Speaker 2: pumping more and more more kids in at some point, Exactly,

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Speaker 2: at some point it's got to break this, Texas said.

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Speaker 2: Some of the top CEOs went to public schools. The

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Speaker 2: teacher is what makes it. If your child can have

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Speaker 2: at least one who is both passionate and knowledgeable. Some

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Speaker 2: of the best teachers are at ordinary schools. Classroom management

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Speaker 2: as easier in a private school as they select their pupils. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I mean, I mean, private school's totally different, quis

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Speaker 2: and you can send your kids to a private school. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's not a zoning issue. Yeah, exactly, if you haven't

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Speaker 2: had the money.

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Speaker 4: Oh e one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the

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Speaker 4: number to call love to hear your thoughts about whether

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Speaker 4: you are tried to get your kid into an outer

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Speaker 4: zone school, how did you go about that? Or if

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Speaker 4: they went to a school that wasn't traditionally popular, did

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Speaker 4: they succeed at that school despite it not being so

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Speaker 4: popular and people may have seen it as one of

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Speaker 4: the lower schools so to speak.

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Speaker 2: Well, as a parent, you really worry about your your

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Speaker 2: precious little children, don't you, And you really want them

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Speaker 2: to have the most amazing start, and you worry about

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Speaker 2: it constantly. And from the very first months of having

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Speaker 2: a child and going to daycare and talking to other parents,

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Speaker 2: they start talking about what school your kids are going

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Speaker 2: to get. It becomes ninety percent of the conversation we

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Speaker 2: have with other parents what schools your kid's going to

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Speaker 2: go to? But that's is that something we need to

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Speaker 2: fight as parents and just go look, we live in

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Speaker 2: the suburb. This is the school in the suburb, so

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Speaker 2: our kids should go to that school. It may be

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Speaker 2: a harder school, but maybe the toughness of that school

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Speaker 2: is what will make them Yeah, you know, and you

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Speaker 2: never know, as I was saying before that whether you

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Speaker 2: go out of your way to get them into another school,

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Speaker 2: whether that's going to be the making or breaking them,

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Speaker 2: you never can tell. But I'd like to hear from

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Speaker 2: did you go to a rough school and did it

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Speaker 2: make you or break you? Or did you just say

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Speaker 2: to your kids you're going to this local school, because

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Speaker 2: I think back in the day there was never a question.

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Speaker 2: You just went to the school.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I'm just thinking about my upbringing

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Speaker 4: in Nelson, and this is why, you know, it's difficult

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Speaker 4: because there wasn't such anything like a tough school in

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Speaker 4: Nelson at that point. But I didn't go to the

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Speaker 4: same school as my brothers, and my parents tried to

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Speaker 4: get me into it, but they were at capacity so

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Speaker 4: I couldn't go. And that had no bearing on how

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Speaker 4: I did as a kid. I didn't care that I

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Speaker 4: was at my older bro school. I just did not care.

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Speaker 4: But that's a big thing for.

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Speaker 2: Me, not crack heads to particular.

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Speaker 4: I think he preferred I didn't go to the school.

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Speaker 2: Actually, now, Marris, you're gonna have a lot to say

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Speaker 2: on this, because if I remember rightly, you've got over

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Speaker 2: ten thousand kids, you've got.

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Speaker 7: A handful, maybe a handful in a bit. Hey, look,

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Speaker 7: if you're living in an area, your kids should go

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Speaker 7: to what he was zoned there own? You shouldn't, you know?

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Speaker 7: Is it because people who live in a better zone,

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Speaker 7: they pay more money for the house. That's the zone

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Speaker 7: and it shouldn't be taken up by a bunch of

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Speaker 7: nobbed who live on a budget and want to go

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Speaker 7: somewhere slightly better. Go to where you are and support

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Speaker 7: your local community. Isn't that what I saw about? And

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Speaker 7: if you don't want that, say it like your peenies

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Speaker 7: and put them in private schoo because that's what we did.

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Speaker 7: You know, our kids went to a desold Keens school

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Speaker 7: that teached it a lot more nic So we just

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Speaker 7: then paid thirty four grand year to send us some comforts.

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Speaker 7: The results went through the roof and we're very very

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Speaker 7: happy as parents.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course you're lucky and that you had the

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Speaker 2: money to do that, But what do you say to

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Speaker 2: parents that can only afford a to live in one

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Speaker 2: area and they just want the best, absolutely best for

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Speaker 2: their kids, and they see, you know, just a few

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Speaker 2: few kilometers away and far superior school and they're going like,

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Speaker 2: this is unfair. It's all public schools. How come my

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Speaker 2: schools rubbish and the one down the road's.

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Speaker 7: Great, it's not unfear. What you do is you get

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Speaker 7: off your chutney and you go down and help that

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Speaker 7: school out because they clearly need a hand. And the community,

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Speaker 7: if you're a good person, you get them behind your

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Speaker 7: school and you get helping that school, the school will improve.

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Speaker 7: But what happened everyone is instead of sitting there helping

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Speaker 7: out with the issue, they just I will go over

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Speaker 7: here because it's easy, and what it is, are just lazy.

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Speaker 7: They genuinely don't contribute to the community. And the problem

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Speaker 7: with society. Now, when I went to school, I had

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Speaker 7: no choice because you opted on a bus and you

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Speaker 7: went to school and you got where the bus dropped

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Speaker 7: you off because that was your zone and it didn't

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Speaker 7: matter whether it's good or bad. You went there. But

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Speaker 7: all your family got in and helped out at the

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Speaker 7: school with Garla D's and all that stuff, and your

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Speaker 7: raised funds and you did all that stuff, sold the

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Speaker 7: raffle tickets and that's community is and that's what it's

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Speaker 7: all about. But people don't do that now, they sit

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Speaker 7: there with their hand out, they don't contribute.

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Speaker 2: It's a very very good point. If everyone just went

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Speaker 2: to the school in their area and worked on making

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Speaker 2: that school better rather than just upping sticks and running

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Speaker 2: off and jumping on a school that's perceived to be better,

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Speaker 2: then those schools would get better, wouldn't they. Arguably, you know,

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Speaker 2: even incrementally.

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Speaker 7: You know, and I look at it. What makes the

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Speaker 7: school kids come and go? What makes the school as

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Speaker 7: the parents, and what makes the parents good as the teachers,

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Speaker 7: and all of a sudden, you have interaction, you get

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Speaker 7: better results. And the only reason we left a decold

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Speaker 7: Tend school because we didn't agree with the teacher and

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Speaker 7: they weren't going to change the teacher, so we just

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Speaker 7: changed the school. But quite inteedy so did about as

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Speaker 7: other parents. Now they've changed teachers and the school's going ahead.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. Thank you for your cal Morris

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Speaker 2: appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: And that was I mean, that's part of the reason

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Speaker 4: of the zone system, right, is that arguably, when you

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Speaker 4: have people at a community, whether they come from wealthy

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Speaker 4: background or not so wealthy background, that the kids go

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Speaker 4: to the school and there's that good mix that is

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Speaker 4: part of the reason why they have those zoning laws

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Speaker 4: in place.

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Speaker 2: I've got a friend who's very, very wealthy and had

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Speaker 2: the money to send his kids to private school, but

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Speaker 2: he was like, I just wanted to go to the

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Speaker 2: local school so they can see what New Zealand is like,

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Speaker 2: so they grow up experiencing New Zealand, not some rarefied

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Speaker 2: version of it. Yeah. I like that and as kids

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Speaker 2: have done very well.

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Speaker 4: Oh eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the

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Speaker 4: number to call zones? Did you care that your child

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Speaker 4: went to the school in your particular zone or did

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Speaker 4: you try and get out of zone?

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Speaker 2: And how did you go with that?

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Speaker 4: Most of the good schools with an auckland rat capacity

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Speaker 4: and they're saying, I say no more. So really can

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Speaker 4: you get your thoughts on this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And my question is the problem just scared parents

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Speaker 2: as opposed to a lack of schools And did you

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Speaker 2: go to a rough school? And did it make you

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Speaker 2: or did it break you? Nigel, see, it's not your zone,

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Speaker 2: out of it your mongrel it is. Thanks for your text, ma.

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Speaker 4: Cheers Nigel twenty three past one.

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Speaker 1: Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers. The mic Hosking Breakfast.

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Speaker 8: Time is whether twenty seven thousand people more are on

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Speaker 8: a benefit in May. That once again is not a

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Speaker 8: good read for the economy. What's happening?

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Speaker 2: No, that's not good.

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Speaker 8: We're trying to get spinning under control, which gets inflation down,

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Speaker 8: gets interest rates down, gets economy growing.

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Speaker 2: It's good the last, but the leaguecus as the unemployment.

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Speaker 8: But that part fell apart. Your theory was you've got

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Speaker 8: your spending under control to a agree. Where that point

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Speaker 8: now stuck? Well, no, we run out of party. I

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Speaker 8: don't see where the economy is growing. That theory that

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Speaker 8: April May was a problem, but hang on the latter

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Speaker 8: part of twenty five will be fine.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't seem as real as it once did.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean we always knew unemployments the last, but

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Speaker 8: that has to come right after those first four bits.

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Speaker 8: Back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with

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Speaker 8: a Vida News Talk z B.

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Speaker 4: Very good afternoon to you. Many Auckland schools are closing

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Speaker 4: their books to out of zone children because they are

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Speaker 4: at capacity or over capacity. But love to chat with

401
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Speaker 4: you about what you did with your child. Did you

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Speaker 4: put them into the school that your zone four. Was

403
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Speaker 4: there any issue with that? And did you go to

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Speaker 4: a rough school yourself? And how did that go for you?

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Speaker 4: Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number

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Speaker 4: to call, Stuart.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 5: Hey, thanks, I'm going to be a bit careful here.

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Speaker 5: Somebody might recognize my story. But I'll tell you something

410
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Speaker 5: very quickly. I bought the worst house possible to ensure

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Speaker 5: we were in zone, and I signed the contract without

412
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Speaker 5: my wife knowing, almost cause of divorce. Well we haven't looked.

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Speaker 5: I think the moral of the story is, you know,

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Speaker 5: we can all live in nice houses and nice areas,

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Speaker 5: but you've got a plan for kids, and if you haven't,

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Speaker 5: then you end up in stripe. You're sort of thinking

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Speaker 5: do I go to the local school? I mean, look

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Speaker 5: at Grayland for example. If ninety of the people who

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Speaker 5: lived in Grayland upon somebly sent their kids to the

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Speaker 5: local schools, imagine the change that would have on that

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Speaker 5: local school. It wouldn't be a rundown, terrible school anymore.

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Speaker 5: It would be quite as sophistigated, well funded, you know,

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Speaker 5: community based school. But you know that's where I don't know.

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Speaker 5: It's one of those hard decisions which is you spend

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Speaker 5: twenty eight thousand dollars on a private school, or you

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Speaker 5: try and get into zone at sort of eight or

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Speaker 5: nine hundred dollars a year.

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Speaker 2: It's a tough one, isn't it, Stu? Because you could

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Speaker 2: go you don't when we call it Steu, do you.

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Speaker 5: I don't mind it? Or you can call me or

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Speaker 5: what either like I don't take offense soon anything.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'll call you Bob, no Stue. Because the thing is,

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Speaker 2: you know, we may have these beliefs and parents do

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Speaker 2: we go, oh, we need to make the school better,

435
00:18:39,653 --> 00:18:42,013
Speaker 2: But when it comes to our own individual kids, you know,

436
00:18:42,093 --> 00:18:44,773
Speaker 2: we don't want them to be the sacrificial lamb for

437
00:18:44,853 --> 00:18:47,773
Speaker 2: our beliefs. So so we do everything we can to

438
00:18:47,813 --> 00:18:50,293
Speaker 2: get them into a good school. But do you think

439
00:18:50,293 --> 00:18:53,853
Speaker 2: it's always the right course in that? You know, have

440
00:18:53,933 --> 00:18:56,493
Speaker 2: you seen examples of where the toughness of the school

441
00:18:56,533 --> 00:18:58,573
Speaker 2: and the struggle that kids went through has made.

442
00:18:58,413 --> 00:19:03,933
Speaker 5: Them I would put it down, I think not necessarily

443
00:19:03,973 --> 00:19:06,253
Speaker 5: the toughness. I mean, you know, we went to a

444
00:19:06,333 --> 00:19:10,613
Speaker 5: public publicmary school, but then a private school, and I

445
00:19:10,733 --> 00:19:14,253
Speaker 5: decided to see my kids to a public secondary school

446
00:19:14,813 --> 00:19:17,933
Speaker 5: simply because I looked at the cost of the private schools.

447
00:19:18,013 --> 00:19:20,933
Speaker 5: I didn't actually see the value out of it. I

448
00:19:20,933 --> 00:19:24,653
Speaker 5: think the indoctrination of some ideological nonsense which goes on

449
00:19:24,733 --> 00:19:27,773
Speaker 5: in some public schools and certainly more to the extreme

450
00:19:27,893 --> 00:19:31,613
Speaker 5: levels in certain areas, that is what and always parents,

451
00:19:31,813 --> 00:19:34,333
Speaker 5: if we just kept control and just taught them the

452
00:19:34,453 --> 00:19:39,613
Speaker 5: simple basics and core maths, English and sciences, I think

453
00:19:39,653 --> 00:19:42,613
Speaker 5: that's more the fear than what the you know, the

454
00:19:42,693 --> 00:19:45,653
Speaker 5: local drug dealers kid might be going to the same school.

455
00:19:45,693 --> 00:19:48,973
Speaker 5: I think it's more to do the ideological nonsense. Yeah,

456
00:19:49,013 --> 00:19:51,413
Speaker 5: to my own opinion, at least the conversations I've had

457
00:19:51,493 --> 00:19:52,133
Speaker 5: put it that way.

458
00:19:52,413 --> 00:19:54,533
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's an interesting one. And it is odd

459
00:19:54,573 --> 00:19:57,253
Speaker 2: that people believe that about public schools because you think

460
00:19:57,253 --> 00:19:59,933
Speaker 2: the public schools should be the most vanilla in terms

461
00:19:59,973 --> 00:20:04,093
Speaker 2: of politics, and that it should just be well basically

462
00:20:04,093 --> 00:20:06,733
Speaker 2: no politics. You know, you could select a private school

463
00:20:06,773 --> 00:20:08,733
Speaker 2: and know what it stands for and you're paying for that.

464
00:20:09,053 --> 00:20:10,373
Speaker 2: But if you have to go to the school, it

465
00:20:10,373 --> 00:20:13,293
Speaker 2: shouldn't be really running any kind of indoctrination or any

466
00:20:13,373 --> 00:20:14,373
Speaker 2: kind of message.

467
00:20:14,413 --> 00:20:20,493
Speaker 5: Really, it should be vanilla is vanilla, And the reality is,

468
00:20:20,533 --> 00:20:22,333
Speaker 5: you know a lot of the private schools are very

469
00:20:22,373 --> 00:20:25,453
Speaker 5: religious and most people were not. But you know, we

470
00:20:25,533 --> 00:20:29,653
Speaker 5: put up with apple and the and the godly stuff

471
00:20:29,693 --> 00:20:33,053
Speaker 5: that you do at private schools and nobody's worse off

472
00:20:33,093 --> 00:20:35,933
Speaker 5: for it. But I think it's it's the basics and

473
00:20:35,973 --> 00:20:39,573
Speaker 5: the morals and the respect and you know, giving them

474
00:20:39,573 --> 00:20:43,853
Speaker 5: managed education. But it would be great if more, if

475
00:20:43,893 --> 00:20:47,693
Speaker 5: there was less ideological nonsense and more people actually sending

476
00:20:47,773 --> 00:20:49,853
Speaker 5: their kids to the local school, because it would improve

477
00:20:49,893 --> 00:20:50,413
Speaker 5: the whole thing.

478
00:20:50,573 --> 00:20:53,493
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just thinking, Stuart, and this would happen a

479
00:20:53,493 --> 00:20:55,853
Speaker 4: lot that parents would would want to get their kids

480
00:20:55,853 --> 00:20:58,173
Speaker 4: into a good school, but that means taking their kids

481
00:20:58,173 --> 00:21:01,213
Speaker 4: away from their friends and their friends circle. That's got

482
00:21:01,253 --> 00:21:02,973
Speaker 4: to be detrimental a lot of the time. When you

483
00:21:03,013 --> 00:21:05,653
Speaker 4: take your kids out of the school, the primary school,

484
00:21:05,653 --> 00:21:06,893
Speaker 4: and you put them in a high school that their

485
00:21:06,893 --> 00:21:10,093
Speaker 4: friends don't go to, then that quite can quite often

486
00:21:10,173 --> 00:21:11,052
Speaker 4: go badly, can't it.

487
00:21:12,853 --> 00:21:13,053
Speaker 9: Yeah?

488
00:21:13,173 --> 00:21:17,053
Speaker 5: It can. But conversely, you know, I was one of

489
00:21:17,053 --> 00:21:19,613
Speaker 5: those that got taken out of the local community and

490
00:21:19,693 --> 00:21:21,973
Speaker 5: sent off to a school that was, you know, a

491
00:21:21,973 --> 00:21:26,253
Speaker 5: forty minute bus ride away. You still make connections, and

492
00:21:26,613 --> 00:21:29,213
Speaker 5: it's the kids and the parents, and it's the combination

493
00:21:29,333 --> 00:21:32,733
Speaker 5: of everything, So yes and no. I mean, if you've

494
00:21:32,773 --> 00:21:35,813
Speaker 5: got too much of a snowplake or too much cotton

495
00:21:35,853 --> 00:21:39,453
Speaker 5: will around your building or your kids, of course they're

496
00:21:39,493 --> 00:21:43,333
Speaker 5: going to be upset. But the reality is financially and

497
00:21:43,373 --> 00:21:46,973
Speaker 5: I think from an educational perspective, parents have to stand

498
00:21:47,053 --> 00:21:48,933
Speaker 5: up and make the right call for their kids, but

499
00:21:49,013 --> 00:21:52,333
Speaker 5: also realize they can't just live in the great suburb

500
00:21:52,493 --> 00:21:55,333
Speaker 5: and then expect the state to take them from out

501
00:21:55,373 --> 00:21:56,773
Speaker 5: of zone just because they want to.

502
00:21:57,053 --> 00:21:58,853
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think if you call Stuart, yeah, I mean,

503
00:21:58,853 --> 00:22:01,373
Speaker 2: it's all interesting and it's the sort of saying about

504
00:22:01,373 --> 00:22:04,253
Speaker 2: the ideas you have. But like say, for example, if

505
00:22:04,253 --> 00:22:06,933
Speaker 2: your kid starts getting bullied and it's just absolutely horrible

506
00:22:06,933 --> 00:22:09,533
Speaker 2: for their kid, and the school that you're in zone

507
00:22:09,533 --> 00:22:13,293
Speaker 2: for with your kid isn't safe for your kid, yeah,

508
00:22:13,653 --> 00:22:16,653
Speaker 2: then you know it'd take a very very strong parent

509
00:22:16,733 --> 00:22:18,573
Speaker 2: to just battle through that and not to try and

510
00:22:18,613 --> 00:22:21,093
Speaker 2: do what they could to get their kid into another school. Yeah.

511
00:22:21,173 --> 00:22:22,293
Speaker 2: I mean that's a very fair point.

512
00:22:22,333 --> 00:22:24,453
Speaker 4: Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to

513
00:22:24,533 --> 00:22:28,013
Speaker 4: call Love to hear your thoughts about out of zone schools.

514
00:22:28,013 --> 00:22:30,133
Speaker 4: Did you try and get your children into one? Why

515
00:22:30,253 --> 00:22:32,653
Speaker 4: was it important or did you keep them in the

516
00:22:32,813 --> 00:22:35,532
Speaker 4: zone that's in your community and how did it work out? Oh,

517
00:22:35,613 --> 00:22:37,613
Speaker 4: eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

518
00:22:37,693 --> 00:22:40,333
Speaker 2: And I'd like to hear from someone who went to

519
00:22:40,413 --> 00:22:44,573
Speaker 2: a tough school, rough situation and they believe it was

520
00:22:44,613 --> 00:22:45,293
Speaker 2: the making of them.

521
00:22:45,453 --> 00:22:52,133
Speaker 4: Ye twenty seven to two.

522
00:22:50,173 --> 00:22:52,573
Speaker 1: You talks'd be headlines.

523
00:22:52,133 --> 00:22:55,373
Speaker 10: With blue bubble taxis it's no trouble with a blue bubble.

524
00:22:55,813 --> 00:22:59,133
Speaker 10: A samo and fashion designer has been fatally shot at

525
00:22:59,173 --> 00:23:03,373
Speaker 10: a protest in Utah. Arthur for Larsa Alou was killed

526
00:23:03,413 --> 00:23:07,453
Speaker 10: at an anti Trump demonstration yesterday. A man has been arrested,

527
00:23:07,773 --> 00:23:13,253
Speaker 10: local describing are Lou as an innocent bystander. Concern possible

528
00:23:13,333 --> 00:23:16,333
Speaker 10: government cuts to sick leave would bring more sick people

529
00:23:16,533 --> 00:23:20,133
Speaker 10: into the office. Employment expert Jared Harse as cutting the

530
00:23:20,173 --> 00:23:24,573
Speaker 10: ten days of statutory leave wouldn't be in anyone's best interests,

531
00:23:24,613 --> 00:23:29,213
Speaker 10: including employers. Three property owners in Auckland's Mission Bay and

532
00:23:29,293 --> 00:23:32,973
Speaker 10: Northcote have been fined more than forty thousand dollars for

533
00:23:33,053 --> 00:23:37,533
Speaker 10: breaching the Resource Management and Building Acts. Farmac has an

534
00:23:37,573 --> 00:23:41,853
Speaker 10: art Stettle fun two patches of menopausal treatment Estra dial

535
00:23:42,013 --> 00:23:47,133
Speaker 10: from December following public consultation. Another strong showing it this

536
00:23:47,213 --> 00:23:49,653
Speaker 10: year's Field Days, with more than one hundred and ten

537
00:23:49,773 --> 00:23:54,453
Speaker 10: thousand people stopping by over the four days. Economists take

538
00:23:54,733 --> 00:23:58,373
Speaker 10: key roles in next phase of COVID inquiry. Find out

539
00:23:58,413 --> 00:24:01,333
Speaker 10: more at ENZID Herald Premium are back to Matt Eathan

540
00:24:01,413 --> 00:24:02,213
Speaker 10: Tyler Adams.

541
00:24:02,293 --> 00:24:05,493
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Raylean, And we're talking about supposed

542
00:24:05,493 --> 00:24:08,052
Speaker 4: good schools in Auckland Bean at capacity. They've closed their

543
00:24:08,013 --> 00:24:10,413
Speaker 4: books to out of his own students. So that's the

544
00:24:10,573 --> 00:24:13,533
Speaker 4: like so of Vunger Toto and also mounts Albert Grammar.

545
00:24:13,573 --> 00:24:17,013
Speaker 4: They are also in a similar position and the same

546
00:24:17,053 --> 00:24:20,773
Speaker 4: in Wellington and christ Chot schools as well. Seventeen percent

547
00:24:20,813 --> 00:24:22,733
Speaker 4: of New Zealand high schools are over capacity.

548
00:24:23,573 --> 00:24:25,253
Speaker 2: The Sex says, what the heck is a good school?

549
00:24:25,293 --> 00:24:26,933
Speaker 2: It's a loaded term. It's a very good point. What

550
00:24:27,013 --> 00:24:29,453
Speaker 2: is a good school? I guess that's a perception. You

551
00:24:29,493 --> 00:24:31,533
Speaker 2: can tell what is thought to be a good school

552
00:24:31,573 --> 00:24:32,973
Speaker 2: because a lot of people from out of zone are

553
00:24:32,973 --> 00:24:36,413
Speaker 2: trying to get into it. Yeah, so people speak with

554
00:24:36,013 --> 00:24:41,253
Speaker 2: their feet or their attempts to move their feet to it. Hey, Matt,

555
00:24:41,293 --> 00:24:43,213
Speaker 2: it sounds like you're trying to write a script to

556
00:24:43,253 --> 00:24:45,693
Speaker 2: a Hallmark movie. Yeah, it is a good point. I'm

557
00:24:45,693 --> 00:24:47,333
Speaker 2: just trying to describe the idea of you went to

558
00:24:47,333 --> 00:24:49,853
Speaker 2: a hard school and that's what made you. You stood

559
00:24:49,893 --> 00:24:51,813
Speaker 2: up to the bully, and for the rest of your

560
00:24:51,853 --> 00:24:54,133
Speaker 2: life you go. Yeah, it was tough, but I wouldn't

561
00:24:54,133 --> 00:24:55,773
Speaker 2: be the man I am today with that school. And

562
00:24:55,853 --> 00:24:57,613
Speaker 2: I kind of think about that with when I think

563
00:24:57,613 --> 00:25:01,093
Speaker 2: about my school, because when I came from a different

564
00:25:01,173 --> 00:25:03,333
Speaker 2: zone because I wanted to play basketball and this was

565
00:25:03,373 --> 00:25:05,493
Speaker 2: the best basketball school in my town. So I went

566
00:25:05,533 --> 00:25:07,973
Speaker 2: to it and just got some horrific hidings for the

567
00:25:08,013 --> 00:25:11,093
Speaker 2: first a couple of years because I didn't know anywhere,

568
00:25:11,373 --> 00:25:14,293
Speaker 2: none of none of the intermediate schools from my area

569
00:25:14,333 --> 00:25:16,453
Speaker 2: fed into that school. I had a couple of mates,

570
00:25:16,733 --> 00:25:18,253
Speaker 2: one of the one of them went on to become

571
00:25:18,333 --> 00:25:20,133
Speaker 2: the coach of the New Zealand cricket team.

572
00:25:20,133 --> 00:25:21,333
Speaker 4: Anyway, well that's successful.

573
00:25:21,413 --> 00:25:25,693
Speaker 2: Yeah, but absolute hidings at that school for a couple

574
00:25:25,733 --> 00:25:27,933
Speaker 2: of years. But then I got my own back, and

575
00:25:27,973 --> 00:25:30,413
Speaker 2: then then I got the gift of the gap to

576
00:25:30,453 --> 00:25:33,413
Speaker 2: deal with these guys. He's basketball diaries, and it was.

577
00:25:33,613 --> 00:25:35,813
Speaker 2: It was horrible, it was, and I was scared to

578
00:25:35,813 --> 00:25:37,773
Speaker 2: go to school nearly every day. It made you the

579
00:25:37,773 --> 00:25:40,813
Speaker 2: man you are today. There, which could be called you Up,

580
00:25:40,893 --> 00:25:45,853
Speaker 2: could be a cautionary tale city to a pretty punishing school.

581
00:25:46,093 --> 00:25:48,533
Speaker 4: I one hundred and eighty ten eighty Z numbered call Greg,

582
00:25:48,573 --> 00:25:49,253
Speaker 4: Welcome to the show.

583
00:25:50,693 --> 00:25:55,333
Speaker 11: Thanks guys, Then Tyler, I was listening with interest your

584
00:25:56,413 --> 00:26:00,573
Speaker 11: previous call talking about the vanilla approach to state schools

585
00:26:00,693 --> 00:26:06,333
Speaker 11: and a example we've got we're finding a very new

586
00:26:06,493 --> 00:26:11,893
Speaker 11: state school, not vanilla at all. We've actually sold and

587
00:26:12,093 --> 00:26:15,093
Speaker 11: moved so that we can get into a different school zone.

588
00:26:16,093 --> 00:26:21,213
Speaker 11: Because the difference between the two schools, one that children

589
00:26:21,253 --> 00:26:25,053
Speaker 11: were previously in is the new model. One of the

590
00:26:25,053 --> 00:26:27,973
Speaker 11: girls has ninety three in their plants, the other one

591
00:26:27,973 --> 00:26:31,013
Speaker 11: who's ninety four, takes about forty five minutes in the

592
00:26:31,053 --> 00:26:37,293
Speaker 11: morning to call the role wo And the lack of

593
00:26:37,413 --> 00:26:42,733
Speaker 11: traditional education has been our absolute biggest concern. And when

594
00:26:42,773 --> 00:26:47,813
Speaker 11: we've compared this to another state school in a similar area,

595
00:26:48,453 --> 00:26:52,173
Speaker 11: just completely different and there seems to be a huge

596
00:26:52,173 --> 00:26:56,893
Speaker 11: amount of autonomy that the schools are allowed to make

597
00:26:57,053 --> 00:27:05,133
Speaker 11: changes within the curriculum and some of the political just

598
00:27:05,173 --> 00:27:08,333
Speaker 11: seem to have very very little control from central government,

599
00:27:08,373 --> 00:27:10,653
Speaker 11: which is a real concern for us, and so much

600
00:27:10,693 --> 00:27:13,453
Speaker 11: so that we decided to sell our house to move.

601
00:27:14,973 --> 00:27:17,613
Speaker 2: Right and so hand on a minute, you sold your

602
00:27:17,613 --> 00:27:21,373
Speaker 2: house and moved and how did the new school turn out?

603
00:27:22,133 --> 00:27:26,613
Speaker 11: New school completely different, smaller classes one in the class

604
00:27:26,613 --> 00:27:30,893
Speaker 11: of twenty six under the class of twenty given the

605
00:27:30,893 --> 00:27:36,532
Speaker 11: curriculum would be more, I suppose classes a traditional curriculum,

606
00:27:36,893 --> 00:27:39,853
Speaker 11: certain subjects that we didn't agree with that we don't

607
00:27:39,893 --> 00:27:42,532
Speaker 11: think will be of much use to our children and

608
00:27:42,733 --> 00:27:46,813
Speaker 11: when they become to the international sussage and traveling, those

609
00:27:47,213 --> 00:27:53,413
Speaker 11: are optional. One important previous school, one of the curriculum

610
00:27:53,453 --> 00:27:57,173
Speaker 11: modules an hour a day, five days a week. We

611
00:27:57,253 --> 00:28:00,653
Speaker 11: didn't agree with that module. It's optional module one hour

612
00:28:00,653 --> 00:28:04,413
Speaker 11: a week in the new state school, so that's optional

613
00:28:04,453 --> 00:28:08,453
Speaker 11: and one school but one hour, one day a week compulsory.

614
00:28:09,693 --> 00:28:13,213
Speaker 2: It's so interesting between between schools that are owned by

615
00:28:13,333 --> 00:28:15,813
Speaker 2: you know, the people. But Greg, how much did you

616
00:28:15,893 --> 00:28:17,613
Speaker 2: did it cost you to make this move? Was it?

617
00:28:17,693 --> 00:28:19,293
Speaker 2: Was it financially punishing?

618
00:28:20,373 --> 00:28:20,493
Speaker 10: Oh?

619
00:28:20,613 --> 00:28:23,013
Speaker 11: Yeah it was. I mean it's not a great housing market.

620
00:28:23,053 --> 00:28:24,893
Speaker 11: Would have rather sold than the peak or wait till

621
00:28:24,933 --> 00:28:29,052
Speaker 11: the next peak. But it's very costly. But it's just

622
00:28:29,133 --> 00:28:31,093
Speaker 11: one of those decisions you have to make in order

623
00:28:31,133 --> 00:28:33,693
Speaker 11: to It's amazing all you go private.

624
00:28:33,533 --> 00:28:35,532
Speaker 2: It's amazing. What you'll if you love your kids, what

625
00:28:35,573 --> 00:28:38,373
Speaker 2: you'll do for them is you'll do anything for them.

626
00:28:38,613 --> 00:28:41,493
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's basically the situation. Isn't it that

627
00:28:41,493 --> 00:28:45,053
Speaker 2: that people will financially ruin themselves. They will, they will

628
00:28:45,093 --> 00:28:48,053
Speaker 2: move their life, they will change anything if they're a

629
00:28:48,053 --> 00:28:49,453
Speaker 2: good parent. It sounds like you're a good parent.

630
00:28:49,493 --> 00:28:53,333
Speaker 11: Career Well, we we're only one of twelve people we

631
00:28:53,413 --> 00:28:56,533
Speaker 11: know in the last twelve months and have moved within

632
00:28:57,213 --> 00:29:00,853
Speaker 11: the region to move away from that school that they

633
00:29:00,853 --> 00:29:03,253
Speaker 11: are at. It's a very modern school that would only

634
00:29:03,293 --> 00:29:05,933
Speaker 11: be six years old. All the latest technology, all the

635
00:29:05,973 --> 00:29:13,213
Speaker 11: latest buildings. It's the postcard school. I believe. I'm probably

636
00:29:13,253 --> 00:29:17,373
Speaker 11: created under the last government and a lot of the

637
00:29:17,453 --> 00:29:20,013
Speaker 11: curriculum that flows through it's very reflective in the last

638
00:29:20,013 --> 00:29:20,733
Speaker 11: government's thinking.

639
00:29:21,293 --> 00:29:23,053
Speaker 2: I think so much for you called Greg hey boys,

640
00:29:23,053 --> 00:29:25,493
Speaker 2: all this big city talk, what about the choice in

641
00:29:25,533 --> 00:29:28,093
Speaker 2: a place like Gisbone, the rough co ed school or

642
00:29:28,093 --> 00:29:32,813
Speaker 2: the rough single sex school. Tough en up. But they

643
00:29:32,813 --> 00:29:36,933
Speaker 2: couldn't panic and suffer the dreaded collapse. Okay, I'm confusing that.

644
00:29:36,933 --> 00:29:39,293
Speaker 4: When a little bit off pieced for that last part.

645
00:29:39,333 --> 00:29:41,013
Speaker 4: But yeah, you're right, I mean in the regions, I.

646
00:29:40,933 --> 00:29:42,453
Speaker 2: Think I think they might have been messed up by

647
00:29:43,053 --> 00:29:45,933
Speaker 2: either spell check or trying to do a voice to

648
00:29:45,933 --> 00:29:47,933
Speaker 2: text there. But thanks for your text mark.

649
00:29:48,013 --> 00:29:49,773
Speaker 4: Keep them coming through and can to hear from you

650
00:29:49,813 --> 00:29:53,453
Speaker 4: on our eight hundred eighty ten eighteen. Some very interesting

651
00:29:53,533 --> 00:29:55,613
Speaker 4: texts that have just come through. We'll get to those next.

652
00:29:55,613 --> 00:29:56,973
Speaker 4: It is eighteen to two.

653
00:29:57,733 --> 00:30:00,173
Speaker 1: The Issues that affect You and a bit of fun

654
00:30:00,213 --> 00:30:04,413
Speaker 1: along the way. Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams Afternoons News Talk ZIB.

655
00:30:05,453 --> 00:30:08,813
Speaker 4: Very good afternoon to you, Robin. How are you hey.

656
00:30:10,413 --> 00:30:13,453
Speaker 12: I've had three kids go through Glenfield College. It's a

657
00:30:13,493 --> 00:30:17,253
Speaker 12: fantastic school. When my old started there nine years ago,

658
00:30:17,413 --> 00:30:21,613
Speaker 12: I know people who sold houses to move to in

659
00:30:21,693 --> 00:30:24,413
Speaker 12: the zone for a so called better school because I

660
00:30:24,413 --> 00:30:26,493
Speaker 12: didn't want to send their kids to Glenfield, And we've

661
00:30:26,613 --> 00:30:29,813
Speaker 12: just had an amazing experience through their three kids. Is

662
00:30:30,173 --> 00:30:33,213
Speaker 12: when my old started there were four hundred and twenty

663
00:30:33,293 --> 00:30:35,893
Speaker 12: students at the high school. It was so small because

664
00:30:36,173 --> 00:30:38,293
Speaker 12: people just didn't want to send their kids there. I

665
00:30:38,333 --> 00:30:38,933
Speaker 12: don't know why.

666
00:30:40,453 --> 00:30:43,413
Speaker 2: Wow, and so so you won the lottery, really, didn't you?

667
00:30:43,453 --> 00:30:48,533
Speaker 2: By not having two do do any changes and upset

668
00:30:48,533 --> 00:30:51,533
Speaker 2: your life or try anything clever, and you're very happy

669
00:30:51,533 --> 00:30:52,013
Speaker 2: with education.

670
00:30:52,973 --> 00:30:55,973
Speaker 12: Yeah, well, my three kids are all quite different, but

671
00:30:56,133 --> 00:30:59,013
Speaker 12: they've all had a great education. Like if they needed

672
00:30:59,053 --> 00:31:02,653
Speaker 12: extending in some subjects, they just do a year above

673
00:31:02,813 --> 00:31:05,853
Speaker 12: the year levels above and some subjects one of my

674
00:31:05,933 --> 00:31:09,573
Speaker 12: boys was the top academic student for his year. He

675
00:31:09,693 --> 00:31:12,653
Speaker 12: was extended in the subjects he needed extending hand like

676
00:31:12,853 --> 00:31:15,373
Speaker 12: during the year level above, but then he also got

677
00:31:15,653 --> 00:31:17,813
Speaker 12: learning support when he needed learning support.

678
00:31:19,333 --> 00:31:21,373
Speaker 2: Was there anything that they missed out on that you

679
00:31:21,413 --> 00:31:24,373
Speaker 2: can see from the supposedly Flasher school.

680
00:31:26,213 --> 00:31:28,373
Speaker 12: No, I think they benefited from not going to the

681
00:31:28,453 --> 00:31:32,733
Speaker 12: Flasher schools. The boy that got larning support, for example,

682
00:31:34,333 --> 00:31:37,413
Speaker 12: I know students that they got Flasher schools that we've

683
00:31:37,453 --> 00:31:41,253
Speaker 12: denied learning support because they weren't dad enough, and he

684
00:31:41,373 --> 00:31:44,933
Speaker 12: got learning support even though he was still achieving academically.

685
00:31:45,453 --> 00:31:48,613
Speaker 12: And so many stories of his friends that got nothing

686
00:31:48,693 --> 00:31:51,573
Speaker 12: from other schools at all. So I think they benefited.

687
00:31:52,213 --> 00:31:54,733
Speaker 4: And you've got one of your children who's now completing

688
00:31:54,733 --> 00:31:57,093
Speaker 4: a master's in biomedical engineering, is that right?

689
00:31:57,813 --> 00:32:02,533
Speaker 12: Yes, that's my older Yes, fantastic. He's suddenly not been

690
00:32:02,573 --> 00:32:07,333
Speaker 12: held back by Tenfield at all. They've had a better

691
00:32:07,373 --> 00:32:09,653
Speaker 12: time at Glenfield think that they would have at the

692
00:32:09,733 --> 00:32:10,253
Speaker 12: other school.

693
00:32:10,573 --> 00:32:11,973
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you so much that you go.

694
00:32:12,253 --> 00:32:13,253
Speaker 4: That is brilliant to here.

695
00:32:13,453 --> 00:32:13,693
Speaker 6: See.

696
00:32:13,733 --> 00:32:15,733
Speaker 4: I mean as she said that she knew people that

697
00:32:15,773 --> 00:32:17,253
Speaker 4: had sold their homes to get out of his own,

698
00:32:17,573 --> 00:32:19,853
Speaker 4: but her kids absolutely excelled at Glenfield.

699
00:32:20,053 --> 00:32:23,133
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like Mount Roschool Grammar. I know a

700
00:32:23,133 --> 00:32:24,893
Speaker 2: lot of these people that have tried to move out

701
00:32:24,893 --> 00:32:26,573
Speaker 2: of that area. But I know some friends that have

702
00:32:26,613 --> 00:32:29,853
Speaker 2: sent their kids to Mount Roschool Grammar and others that

703
00:32:29,893 --> 00:32:31,933
Speaker 2: have moved away from Mount Rosill Grammar, and the kids

704
00:32:31,973 --> 00:32:34,133
Speaker 2: that we Demandment Roschool Grammar have done very well.

705
00:32:34,213 --> 00:32:36,693
Speaker 4: Yep, very good, Dan. We'll get you in before we

706
00:32:36,693 --> 00:32:43,093
Speaker 4: get to play some messages. Get a very good and

707
00:32:43,133 --> 00:32:46,293
Speaker 4: what's your You went to a rough school?

708
00:32:46,573 --> 00:32:50,133
Speaker 13: Yeah, I went to a school and Rhoda Rilla an

709
00:32:50,133 --> 00:32:54,413
Speaker 13: intermediate school. It's closed now. She she was pretty rugged.

710
00:32:54,733 --> 00:32:57,653
Speaker 13: But I think that that helped. You know what, I

711
00:32:57,733 --> 00:33:01,053
Speaker 13: don't help, but I think that it all starts at home,

712
00:33:01,373 --> 00:33:04,893
Speaker 13: like how to deal with people and some stuff. And yeah,

713
00:33:04,973 --> 00:33:07,133
Speaker 13: like I say, I went to Yeah, it was a

714
00:33:07,173 --> 00:33:09,213
Speaker 13: pretty rough school. And if you're a bit of a snowflake,

715
00:33:09,413 --> 00:33:11,613
Speaker 13: like you could have just folded, you know, and they

716
00:33:11,653 --> 00:33:13,453
Speaker 13: would have folded you like a t can you kind

717
00:33:13,493 --> 00:33:16,373
Speaker 13: of had to yeah, step up. And I think about

718
00:33:16,413 --> 00:33:20,333
Speaker 13: my kids now, and you know, like if we try

719
00:33:20,373 --> 00:33:23,613
Speaker 13: and wrap them up and not giving them the skills

720
00:33:23,653 --> 00:33:26,853
Speaker 13: to deal with people at school, and it just you

721
00:33:27,013 --> 00:33:28,253
Speaker 13: just set them up for failure.

722
00:33:28,253 --> 00:33:30,133
Speaker 11: It's going to make it real hard for them.

723
00:33:30,213 --> 00:33:31,893
Speaker 2: Now, thank you so much for your call down. Yeah,

724
00:33:32,053 --> 00:33:33,813
Speaker 2: so it made you. A rough school, made you so

725
00:33:33,853 --> 00:33:37,333
Speaker 2: you have something to take into account. Exactly if you

726
00:33:37,413 --> 00:33:41,173
Speaker 2: make the run rays so smooth for your kids, then

727
00:33:41,213 --> 00:33:43,533
Speaker 2: do they become competent because eventually they're gonna they're going

728
00:33:43,613 --> 00:33:46,253
Speaker 2: to meet some tough circumstances in their life. Exactly worked

729
00:33:46,253 --> 00:33:46,733
Speaker 2: out for Dan.

730
00:33:46,813 --> 00:33:46,973
Speaker 7: Right.

731
00:33:46,973 --> 00:33:49,293
Speaker 4: Coming up, we're gonna have a chet to Patrick Drum,

732
00:33:49,533 --> 00:33:53,333
Speaker 4: the headmaster of mounts Albert Grammar. He's keen for some

733
00:33:53,413 --> 00:33:55,893
Speaker 4: new schools in a city, christ Church, So that is

734
00:33:55,933 --> 00:33:57,653
Speaker 4: coming up very shortly eleven to two.

735
00:33:57,693 --> 00:33:58,693
Speaker 2: I'd be Auckland, wouldn't it.

736
00:33:58,973 --> 00:34:01,333
Speaker 4: What did I say, christ Church? Yeah, yeah, of course Auckland.

737
00:34:01,413 --> 00:34:03,213
Speaker 2: Yeah, you might care about Christ which as well, but

738
00:34:03,853 --> 00:34:04,773
Speaker 2: it is an Auckland school.

739
00:34:06,293 --> 00:34:09,893
Speaker 1: Matties Taylor Adams taking your calls on eight hundred and

740
00:34:09,933 --> 00:34:13,653
Speaker 1: eighty ten eighty. It's matt Heathen Taylor Adams Afternoons News

741
00:34:13,652 --> 00:34:14,292
Speaker 1: Talks B.

742
00:34:15,933 --> 00:34:18,853
Speaker 4: News Talks B. So what can be done about at

743
00:34:18,853 --> 00:34:21,692
Speaker 4: capacity high schools? Joining us now is Patrick Drumm. He's

744
00:34:21,693 --> 00:34:24,692
Speaker 4: the headmaster at Mount Albert Grammar School. Patrick, very good

745
00:34:24,693 --> 00:34:25,213
Speaker 4: afternoon to you.

746
00:34:25,773 --> 00:34:26,533
Speaker 6: Yeah, good afternoon.

747
00:34:26,533 --> 00:34:30,333
Speaker 2: How are you very good? What is causing the overcrowding

748
00:34:30,413 --> 00:34:31,373
Speaker 2: of Auckland schools?

749
00:34:33,573 --> 00:34:35,853
Speaker 6: Well, I think we're just a sort of function of

750
00:34:35,893 --> 00:34:39,213
Speaker 6: other challenges around infrastructure, aren't we in a rapidly growing

751
00:34:39,253 --> 00:34:45,573
Speaker 6: city and you know, you blink, drive around and blink,

752
00:34:45,613 --> 00:34:48,292
Speaker 6: and then suddenly there's another state house gone or another

753
00:34:48,333 --> 00:34:50,893
Speaker 6: house moved off, and three or four or five or

754
00:34:50,933 --> 00:34:54,652
Speaker 6: six other dwellings and that on that property within our

755
00:34:54,653 --> 00:34:56,973
Speaker 6: school zone. And they bring in families and those young

756
00:34:57,013 --> 00:34:58,973
Speaker 6: people need to go to school. So it's just simply

757
00:34:59,333 --> 00:35:03,533
Speaker 6: a growth is rapid and we're just having to cope

758
00:35:03,533 --> 00:35:03,773
Speaker 6: with that.

759
00:35:04,093 --> 00:35:07,013
Speaker 2: How many kids that Mount Albert Grammar and how many

760
00:35:07,053 --> 00:35:08,053
Speaker 2: would you be comfortable with?

761
00:35:10,293 --> 00:35:12,973
Speaker 6: There are two different different questions, aren't there. But I

762
00:35:12,973 --> 00:35:15,813
Speaker 6: mean we're in excess of three thousand, six hundred students

763
00:35:15,853 --> 00:35:20,893
Speaker 6: now and we've been growing and so in nine years

764
00:35:21,293 --> 00:35:24,293
Speaker 6: as headmaster here and we've grown a thousand students from

765
00:35:24,293 --> 00:35:28,013
Speaker 6: that time. So and that includes the COVID period where

766
00:35:28,013 --> 00:35:29,813
Speaker 6: things slowed down, But so we're looking at sort of

767
00:35:29,813 --> 00:35:33,133
Speaker 6: one hundred, one hundred and fifty students a year. And the

768
00:35:34,253 --> 00:35:37,253
Speaker 6: question about being comfortable is actually irrelevant because they're in

769
00:35:37,253 --> 00:35:40,613
Speaker 6: our zone. We've got to take students there that there's

770
00:35:40,613 --> 00:35:42,973
Speaker 6: no real choice about it. That's pretty clear under the

771
00:35:43,053 --> 00:35:43,732
Speaker 6: Education Act.

772
00:35:44,253 --> 00:35:46,733
Speaker 2: There are some advantages in having a big school. I

773
00:35:46,773 --> 00:35:49,413
Speaker 2: think Mount Amragram is a fantastic school. I've got two

774
00:35:49,533 --> 00:35:52,973
Speaker 2: kids been there and everything they could want to do

775
00:35:53,293 --> 00:35:56,692
Speaker 2: is available to them, clubs, sports, whatever they want. That's

776
00:35:56,693 --> 00:35:59,853
Speaker 2: basically a city and whoever you are you can find

777
00:36:00,253 --> 00:36:03,293
Speaker 2: your think. So there is an advantage in being a

778
00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:05,613
Speaker 2: huge school, Petrick, I.

779
00:36:05,573 --> 00:36:07,533
Speaker 6: Think there is. I mean, these other economies of scale

780
00:36:07,573 --> 00:36:12,893
Speaker 6: financially well, and you're exactly right about the ability to

781
00:36:12,893 --> 00:36:17,173
Speaker 6: embrace diversity within our Auckland community. It's reflected in the

782
00:36:17,213 --> 00:36:20,533
Speaker 6: Mount Albert Grammar community as well. But there is a

783
00:36:20,573 --> 00:36:23,933
Speaker 6: place for everyone there's something for everyone at the school,

784
00:36:24,013 --> 00:36:26,933
Speaker 6: so you know, there are some big advantages. You might

785
00:36:26,973 --> 00:36:28,812
Speaker 6: be not having the greatest day with your peer group,

786
00:36:28,973 --> 00:36:32,253
Speaker 6: you know, at a particular lunchtime, but there's another four

787
00:36:32,333 --> 00:36:34,133
Speaker 6: or five hundred students in your year level you can

788
00:36:34,173 --> 00:36:36,093
Speaker 6: go and kick a ball around with. So you know,

789
00:36:36,133 --> 00:36:38,173
Speaker 6: those sort of things, you know, are pretty important for

790
00:36:38,213 --> 00:36:40,893
Speaker 6: young people to say work their way through. And I

791
00:36:40,893 --> 00:36:44,533
Speaker 6: think it just gives a huge opportunity for people to

792
00:36:44,813 --> 00:36:48,652
Speaker 6: rub shoulders with lots of different types of people, and

793
00:36:48,693 --> 00:36:50,973
Speaker 6: I think it's a great preparation for the next step.

794
00:36:51,213 --> 00:36:52,893
Speaker 2: Do you take it as a compliment that so many

795
00:36:52,933 --> 00:36:55,172
Speaker 2: people want to come to your school from matazone?

796
00:36:56,613 --> 00:36:59,173
Speaker 6: We always want to be I think hit masters always

797
00:36:59,213 --> 00:37:01,573
Speaker 6: want to be running a school which you know has

798
00:37:02,213 --> 00:37:05,373
Speaker 6: garners confidence within your own community, certainly. But I suppose

799
00:37:05,413 --> 00:37:07,293
Speaker 6: the bigger question there and it's the one that probably

800
00:37:07,333 --> 00:37:10,172
Speaker 6: can't unpack and five and it's is why parents say

801
00:37:10,173 --> 00:37:13,493
Speaker 6: from outside our zone not choosing their local schools. And

802
00:37:13,533 --> 00:37:17,133
Speaker 6: I think that's a really serious question about around the

803
00:37:17,173 --> 00:37:20,213
Speaker 6: type of school and we provided in different types of schools,

804
00:37:20,213 --> 00:37:22,693
Speaker 6: curriculum assessment and those sort of things. You know, it's

805
00:37:22,733 --> 00:37:23,773
Speaker 6: a big, big issue.

806
00:37:23,773 --> 00:37:26,373
Speaker 4: How many applications out his own applications did you get

807
00:37:26,413 --> 00:37:28,293
Speaker 4: for next year? Not an exact number, but are we

808
00:37:28,293 --> 00:37:29,213
Speaker 4: talking in the hundreds?

809
00:37:30,453 --> 00:37:32,733
Speaker 6: Yeah, so for this year because there still things are

810
00:37:32,733 --> 00:37:34,733
Speaker 6: still open at the moment for twenty twenty six. But

811
00:37:35,173 --> 00:37:39,652
Speaker 6: we had year we had six hundred year nine applications

812
00:37:39,693 --> 00:37:42,573
Speaker 6: we didn't accept last year, Oh my god, accepted. We

813
00:37:43,053 --> 00:37:46,213
Speaker 6: accepted six hundred and seventy. So you know, you actually

814
00:37:46,213 --> 00:37:49,413
Speaker 6: can almost double your school role overnight when you look

815
00:37:49,413 --> 00:37:51,573
Speaker 6: at that. And that's even with us sending a pretty

816
00:37:51,613 --> 00:37:54,293
Speaker 6: clear message that we would have a very limited, if

817
00:37:54,333 --> 00:37:57,373
Speaker 6: any out of his own enrollment this year, but we

818
00:37:57,413 --> 00:38:00,293
Speaker 6: still had I think it's shown that the concern that

819
00:38:00,293 --> 00:38:04,773
Speaker 6: many families have about this important process, which is finding

820
00:38:04,893 --> 00:38:06,652
Speaker 6: a school for your son and your daughter.

821
00:38:07,053 --> 00:38:10,732
Speaker 2: What are the Ministry of Educationation's infrastructure plans to help

822
00:38:10,773 --> 00:38:13,213
Speaker 2: meet your demand, demand and sort of demand in general.

823
00:38:14,093 --> 00:38:17,213
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, we've been sort of advocating quite strongly. And

824
00:38:17,253 --> 00:38:19,053
Speaker 6: it's a group of schools around this area. Because if

825
00:38:19,093 --> 00:38:22,933
Speaker 6: I go to the periphery of our enrollment zone, I mean,

826
00:38:23,053 --> 00:38:26,933
Speaker 6: we've got Auckland Grammar, EPSOM Girls Aerolic capacity, you've got

827
00:38:26,973 --> 00:38:30,453
Speaker 6: your private schools pretty close on that boundary as well.

828
00:38:30,733 --> 00:38:34,453
Speaker 6: Western Springs at capacity. Evandale College is moving up in

829
00:38:34,573 --> 00:38:36,693
Speaker 6: terms of capacity as well, so it's quite obviously it

830
00:38:36,733 --> 00:38:41,813
Speaker 6: needs to be ExtraVision within the central area. At the moment,

831
00:38:42,013 --> 00:38:46,253
Speaker 6: we're just sort of dropping buildings onto existing site to

832
00:38:46,293 --> 00:38:48,893
Speaker 6: cope with. In other words, we opened a building for

833
00:38:49,013 --> 00:38:52,373
Speaker 6: six hundred students last year and that's a significant building.

834
00:38:52,533 --> 00:38:54,893
Speaker 4: It certainly is. Patrick, We're out of time, wish we

835
00:38:54,933 --> 00:38:56,733
Speaker 4: had more time, but thank you very much for your

836
00:38:56,733 --> 00:38:59,933
Speaker 4: time this afternoon and all the best. That is Patrick Drum,

837
00:38:59,973 --> 00:39:02,613
Speaker 4: principle of Mount Albert Grammar.

838
00:39:02,413 --> 00:39:04,613
Speaker 2: A fantastic school. Absolutely right.

839
00:39:04,653 --> 00:39:06,653
Speaker 4: Coming up after the news, we want to talk about

840
00:39:06,653 --> 00:39:10,293
Speaker 4: a documentary that every everybody is discussing news.

841
00:39:10,013 --> 00:39:16,133
Speaker 1: Next talking with you all afternoon, it's Matt Heathen, Taylor

842
00:39:16,173 --> 00:39:18,853
Speaker 1: Adams Afternoons News Talks. It'd be.

843
00:39:20,853 --> 00:39:23,413
Speaker 4: Very good afternoon to you. Welcome back into the show

844
00:39:23,453 --> 00:39:26,613
Speaker 4: on this Monday afternoon. Hope you're doing fantastic wherever you're

845
00:39:26,653 --> 00:39:29,613
Speaker 4: listening in the country. Great day of your company. As always,

846
00:39:29,693 --> 00:39:32,252
Speaker 4: this is going to be a very very interesting chat.

847
00:39:32,293 --> 00:39:35,973
Speaker 4: So Netflix has released a new documentary on the Titan

848
00:39:36,133 --> 00:39:40,413
Speaker 4: submersible disaster. So titan the Ocean Gate disaster is what

849
00:39:40,453 --> 00:39:43,773
Speaker 4: it's called. At premieres over the weekend, and it includes

850
00:39:43,773 --> 00:39:47,653
Speaker 4: an interview with Kiwi deep sea exploration expert Rob McCallum,

851
00:39:47,693 --> 00:39:50,853
Speaker 4: who had raised concerns about the sub But it is

852
00:39:50,933 --> 00:39:52,493
Speaker 4: a compelling documentary.

853
00:39:52,533 --> 00:39:54,013
Speaker 2: I mean, we all remember at the time that the

854
00:39:54,093 --> 00:39:57,293
Speaker 2: horror when we first heard about it, and the countdown

855
00:39:57,333 --> 00:39:59,013
Speaker 2: as they were supposed to be running out of oxygen

856
00:39:59,093 --> 00:40:03,773
Speaker 2: or potentially were. But it is a very very very

857
00:40:03,893 --> 00:40:06,933
Speaker 2: shocking tale when you listen to it, and look, there's

858
00:40:06,973 --> 00:40:09,453
Speaker 2: only two ways you know, there's no two ways about it.

859
00:40:09,573 --> 00:40:14,173
Speaker 2: Stockton Rush, the CEO of Oceangate, made some terrible decisions

860
00:40:14,453 --> 00:40:17,773
Speaker 2: and the suggestion is this was a disaster that was

861
00:40:17,853 --> 00:40:21,173
Speaker 2: just only a matter of time until it til it happens.

862
00:40:21,653 --> 00:40:22,813
Speaker 2: Let's just have a listen to a bit of a

863
00:40:22,853 --> 00:40:23,613
Speaker 2: rundown of the show.

864
00:40:24,253 --> 00:40:28,693
Speaker 14: Stockton saw an opportunity to three start tourist hysits to Titanic.

865
00:40:29,573 --> 00:40:31,533
Speaker 14: There was no way of knowing where titled It's going

866
00:40:31,533 --> 00:40:35,013
Speaker 14: to fail, but it was a mathematical certainty that it

867
00:40:35,093 --> 00:40:35,733
Speaker 14: would failed.

868
00:40:37,213 --> 00:40:39,573
Speaker 1: Stockton fully believed in what he was doing and that

869
00:40:39,613 --> 00:40:40,133
Speaker 1: it would work.

870
00:40:40,413 --> 00:40:44,293
Speaker 2: He wanted to fare to fuel as eagle beam. I

871
00:40:44,373 --> 00:40:45,573
Speaker 2: have no desire to die.

872
00:40:45,733 --> 00:40:49,893
Speaker 15: I understand this kind of risk that Stockton was a

873
00:40:49,933 --> 00:40:51,013
Speaker 15: borderline psychopath.

874
00:40:51,293 --> 00:40:53,133
Speaker 2: How do you manage the person like that who owns

875
00:40:53,133 --> 00:40:56,973
Speaker 2: the company? Yes, one of the seeds things I will

876
00:40:57,013 --> 00:40:57,333
Speaker 2: ever do.

877
00:40:57,933 --> 00:41:00,172
Speaker 1: Nobody spoke up. He would ruin somebody's.

878
00:40:59,853 --> 00:41:02,973
Speaker 4: Leaves stocked and said, Bonnie is going to be our

879
00:41:03,013 --> 00:41:04,133
Speaker 4: next lead pilot.

880
00:41:04,253 --> 00:41:05,293
Speaker 2: Are you nuts?

881
00:41:05,373 --> 00:41:06,213
Speaker 10: I'm an accountant.

882
00:41:07,773 --> 00:41:09,653
Speaker 1: No, one's not under my wife period.

883
00:41:12,093 --> 00:41:13,093
Speaker 4: That gives me gooseyes.

884
00:41:13,253 --> 00:41:16,373
Speaker 2: And people did die under his own watch, including him,

885
00:41:16,453 --> 00:41:18,893
Speaker 2: but also sadly a teenage boy that was taken in

886
00:41:19,053 --> 00:41:23,573
Speaker 2: because he cut corners. It wasn't registered in any place,

887
00:41:23,613 --> 00:41:26,853
Speaker 2: it wasn't tested by any body that would look into

888
00:41:26,613 --> 00:41:30,253
Speaker 2: testing whether it was seaworthy or under sea worthy. And

889
00:41:30,333 --> 00:41:33,693
Speaker 2: like that that line there from Tony Neeson, the Ocean

890
00:41:33,733 --> 00:41:37,013
Speaker 2: gatehead of engineering, I thought Stockton was a borderline psychopath.

891
00:41:37,293 --> 00:41:39,773
Speaker 2: How do you manage a person like that who owns

892
00:41:39,813 --> 00:41:42,212
Speaker 2: the company and you know you've got the kiwi Rob

893
00:41:42,293 --> 00:41:45,053
Speaker 2: McCallen saying, look, there was no way of knowing when

894
00:41:45,093 --> 00:41:47,133
Speaker 2: Titan was going to fail, but it was a mathematical

895
00:41:47,213 --> 00:41:51,773
Speaker 2: certainty that it would fail, and so there was this

896
00:41:52,093 --> 00:41:55,173
Speaker 2: there was this dream I've been able to make money

897
00:41:55,213 --> 00:41:56,732
Speaker 2: by charging people a lot of money to go down

898
00:41:56,773 --> 00:41:58,933
Speaker 2: and visit the Titanic, you know, look under, open up

899
00:41:58,973 --> 00:42:04,333
Speaker 2: the ocean to to tourism. But the dream never met

900
00:42:04,333 --> 00:42:07,053
Speaker 2: the reality. And you know, the way they were making

901
00:42:07,173 --> 00:42:14,133
Speaker 2: the submersible was just it was failing tests, making horrific noises,

902
00:42:14,213 --> 00:42:16,373
Speaker 2: creaking noises under the water. But they just kept going

903
00:42:16,373 --> 00:42:19,333
Speaker 2: and it became a cult like situation within the team

904
00:42:19,373 --> 00:42:22,652
Speaker 2: that were doing it, and anyone that called him out

905
00:42:22,893 --> 00:42:25,652
Speaker 2: stopped and rush out basically lost lost their job. I mean,

906
00:42:25,693 --> 00:42:28,493
Speaker 2: there's the sad, sad case. If you've seen the documentary

907
00:42:28,493 --> 00:42:32,653
Speaker 2: of David Lockridge, who was the Scottish whistleblower, former director

908
00:42:32,693 --> 00:42:36,293
Speaker 2: of Marine Operations, and when he called it out, not

909
00:42:36,333 --> 00:42:38,853
Speaker 2: only did they fire him there then and then he

910
00:42:38,893 --> 00:42:40,693
Speaker 2: tried to run a whistle blow sitch on there just

911
00:42:40,733 --> 00:42:43,293
Speaker 2: because he cared about saving some lives and he was

912
00:42:43,613 --> 00:42:45,533
Speaker 2: sure that things were going to go bad. You know,

913
00:42:45,613 --> 00:42:47,853
Speaker 2: Ocean Gates sued him, yeah, to shut him up.

914
00:42:48,453 --> 00:42:50,973
Speaker 4: Unreal the number of people, as you say, in high

915
00:42:51,013 --> 00:42:53,933
Speaker 4: positions that tried to speak up and were pushed aside,

916
00:42:54,053 --> 00:42:56,853
Speaker 4: But certainly there were people in the company that you

917
00:42:56,893 --> 00:43:00,933
Speaker 4: could argue were enighblers. They saw something was wrong, they

918
00:43:01,013 --> 00:43:04,573
Speaker 4: had concerns because of the personality Stockton Rush was and

919
00:43:04,653 --> 00:43:06,853
Speaker 4: as you mentioned, Tony Nielsen, one of the directors said

920
00:43:06,853 --> 00:43:09,853
Speaker 4: he was a borderline psychopath. They might have spoken up.

921
00:43:10,133 --> 00:43:11,853
Speaker 4: Then he said, no, we're going to do this and

922
00:43:11,893 --> 00:43:13,853
Speaker 4: I don't care what you think, and at that point

923
00:43:13,973 --> 00:43:15,013
Speaker 4: they didn't say anymore.

924
00:43:15,253 --> 00:43:17,253
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Waite hundred and eighty ten eighty, what are

925
00:43:17,293 --> 00:43:19,853
Speaker 2: your thoughts on the whole tide in situation? And how

926
00:43:19,853 --> 00:43:21,533
Speaker 2: do you deal with the boss who is going in

927
00:43:21,533 --> 00:43:23,973
Speaker 2: the wrong direction in this case a very powerful and

928
00:43:24,053 --> 00:43:27,053
Speaker 2: charismatic CEO. Have you stood up to the boss and

929
00:43:27,333 --> 00:43:29,053
Speaker 2: how did it go? And have you taken a stand

930
00:43:29,053 --> 00:43:32,613
Speaker 2: and left a company because you thought it was what

931
00:43:32,733 --> 00:43:35,732
Speaker 2: was happening wasn't right, because a bunch of people did.

932
00:43:35,853 --> 00:43:37,933
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you what when you watch the documentary,

933
00:43:37,933 --> 00:43:40,333
Speaker 2: the people that did stand up and at the time,

934
00:43:40,373 --> 00:43:44,013
Speaker 2: it's a great personal cost and you know, incredible stress

935
00:43:44,013 --> 00:43:47,773
Speaker 2: to themselves. Yeah, they ended up looking very good in

936
00:43:47,773 --> 00:43:48,493
Speaker 2: the documentary.

937
00:43:48,573 --> 00:43:49,053
Speaker 4: Well they did.

938
00:43:49,133 --> 00:43:53,173
Speaker 2: And the ones standing around and celebrating and clapping and

939
00:43:53,213 --> 00:43:58,692
Speaker 2: popping champagne over the later dives probably don't look so good.

940
00:43:58,813 --> 00:44:01,853
Speaker 4: No, But the engineer you mentioned there, David Lockred, who's

941
00:44:01,893 --> 00:44:04,893
Speaker 4: the Scottish engineer. I thought he was incredibly brave. And

942
00:44:04,893 --> 00:44:08,133
Speaker 4: there was audio of him talking to Stopped and Rush

943
00:44:08,333 --> 00:44:11,533
Speaker 4: and meeting saying that this is going to implode. You

944
00:44:11,613 --> 00:44:13,973
Speaker 4: cannot go down in the sub you were going to die,

945
00:44:14,173 --> 00:44:16,533
Speaker 4: and Stockton basically said, I'm not going to die, and

946
00:44:16,613 --> 00:44:18,213
Speaker 4: I don't care what you think. One of us is

947
00:44:18,213 --> 00:44:19,973
Speaker 4: going to leave this company and it's not going to

948
00:44:20,013 --> 00:44:22,652
Speaker 4: be me. But just the fact that he stood up

949
00:44:22,693 --> 00:44:26,093
Speaker 4: to this particular guy stocked in rash you owned the company,

950
00:44:26,213 --> 00:44:29,293
Speaker 4: he had that vision incredibly brave thing to do.

951
00:44:29,973 --> 00:44:33,533
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but you know, also having said that,

952
00:44:33,813 --> 00:44:35,453
Speaker 2: if you know people are going to be going down

953
00:44:35,493 --> 00:44:37,893
Speaker 2: in this thing and you know that it doesn't have

954
00:44:37,933 --> 00:44:43,013
Speaker 2: what it takes and to hold up, you know, and if,

955
00:44:43,413 --> 00:44:45,453
Speaker 2: as Rob McCallum said, there was no way of knowing

956
00:44:45,453 --> 00:44:47,333
Speaker 2: when Titan was going to fail, but if it was

957
00:44:47,333 --> 00:44:49,893
Speaker 2: a mathematical certainty that it would fail, I mean, surely,

958
00:44:49,893 --> 00:44:52,573
Speaker 2: if you know that, you have to do something. And

959
00:44:53,093 --> 00:44:58,733
Speaker 2: in the case of David Lockridge, he stood up stood

960
00:44:58,733 --> 00:45:00,373
Speaker 2: down and then went to court, but he just couldn't

961
00:45:00,413 --> 00:45:03,853
Speaker 2: afford him and his wife couldn't afford to keep going

962
00:45:03,853 --> 00:45:05,533
Speaker 2: to court on it, and they just had to withdraw

963
00:45:05,573 --> 00:45:09,293
Speaker 2: the charges because you know, they just they just were

964
00:45:09,333 --> 00:45:11,213
Speaker 2: going to destroy their entire life trying to stop it.

965
00:45:11,373 --> 00:45:14,413
Speaker 4: Yeah, but looking at the when they measured the stress

966
00:45:14,493 --> 00:45:16,853
Speaker 4: levels on the hull and you could see that graph

967
00:45:16,893 --> 00:45:19,413
Speaker 4: and when it was pinging every time it cracked, And

968
00:45:19,453 --> 00:45:21,573
Speaker 4: I think that was the point that David Lockridge is

969
00:45:21,613 --> 00:45:23,173
Speaker 4: in Engineers Say, is I can no longer be a

970
00:45:23,173 --> 00:45:26,573
Speaker 4: part of that but incredibly compelling documentary, but really keen

971
00:45:26,613 --> 00:45:27,693
Speaker 4: to hear from you.

972
00:45:28,333 --> 00:45:30,732
Speaker 2: This Texas says, I come from mountain biking, and if

973
00:45:30,733 --> 00:45:33,533
Speaker 2: there's one thing I know about carbon fiber, it's not

974
00:45:34,453 --> 00:45:37,493
Speaker 2: it's not if it's going to break its wind and

975
00:45:37,573 --> 00:45:39,493
Speaker 2: it goes without warning. Yeah, I mean that's what a

976
00:45:39,493 --> 00:45:42,533
Speaker 2: lot of people people were saying, because because the reason

977
00:45:42,533 --> 00:45:45,133
Speaker 2: why they went with the carbon fiber was because of

978
00:45:45,173 --> 00:45:48,453
Speaker 2: the weight of the titanium was too heavy and they

979
00:45:48,773 --> 00:45:50,853
Speaker 2: needed a bigger boat to take it out, to take

980
00:45:50,893 --> 00:45:54,773
Speaker 2: the submersible out to drop people down to see the Titanic,

981
00:45:55,053 --> 00:45:56,453
Speaker 2: and so they were looking at a way to have

982
00:45:56,493 --> 00:45:59,613
Speaker 2: a lighter submersive submersible, and that was the dream. We

983
00:45:59,653 --> 00:46:02,093
Speaker 2: can do this. But at some point it became clear

984
00:46:02,133 --> 00:46:05,733
Speaker 2: that what their idea did not match reality. And it

985
00:46:05,813 --> 00:46:08,933
Speaker 2: kind of reminded me this this guy, you know, Stocked

986
00:46:08,973 --> 00:46:11,813
Speaker 2: and Rush, he really wanted to be the Elon Musk

987
00:46:11,933 --> 00:46:14,933
Speaker 2: of the ocean. Yeah, but it's similar to Elizabeth Holmes

988
00:46:14,933 --> 00:46:20,093
Speaker 2: wanting to be the Steve Jobs of you know, medicine

989
00:46:19,733 --> 00:46:24,573
Speaker 2: of diagnostics. Sometimes they just imagine who they are and

990
00:46:24,693 --> 00:46:26,333
Speaker 2: who they want to be, but their idea is not

991
00:46:26,413 --> 00:46:29,053
Speaker 2: up to scratch and it just needed to be tried

992
00:46:29,213 --> 00:46:30,773
Speaker 2: and then realized it was going to be fail and

993
00:46:30,893 --> 00:46:31,653
Speaker 2: next Yeah.

994
00:46:31,573 --> 00:46:34,493
Speaker 4: Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If you've seen the documentary,

995
00:46:34,493 --> 00:46:36,933
Speaker 4: what did you think? And also, is there ever been

996
00:46:36,973 --> 00:46:38,652
Speaker 4: a point that you've had to stand up to a

997
00:46:38,693 --> 00:46:41,893
Speaker 4: manager you saw something going wrong and you felt no

998
00:46:42,053 --> 00:46:44,013
Speaker 4: choice but to stand up and say something. Love to

999
00:46:44,013 --> 00:46:46,093
Speaker 4: hear from you. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is

1000
00:46:46,133 --> 00:46:51,533
Speaker 4: the number to call. It's fourteen parts two.

1001
00:46:50,653 --> 00:46:55,252
Speaker 1: Your home of afternoon Talk, Mad Heathen Taylor Adams Afternoons call,

1002
00:46:55,413 --> 00:46:58,133
Speaker 1: Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty, Youth Talk said be.

1003
00:47:00,333 --> 00:47:02,933
Speaker 4: Very good afternoon to you. We're talking about a documentary

1004
00:47:03,013 --> 00:47:06,013
Speaker 4: that launched on Netflix over the weekend and it is

1005
00:47:06,253 --> 00:47:09,373
Speaker 4: very quickly shot to number one by a country mile.

1006
00:47:09,413 --> 00:47:12,933
Speaker 4: It's called Titan, the Ocean Gate disaster and an examined

1007
00:47:12,973 --> 00:47:17,133
Speaker 4: CEO Stockton's rush quest to become the next billionaire innovator,

1008
00:47:17,453 --> 00:47:20,053
Speaker 4: and of course the doomed underwater endeavor that called into

1009
00:47:20,133 --> 00:47:23,373
Speaker 4: question the price of ambition in the depths of the ocean.

1010
00:47:23,973 --> 00:47:26,613
Speaker 4: But we've also asked the question because what became apparent

1011
00:47:26,693 --> 00:47:28,732
Speaker 4: during the documentary is the number of people who tried

1012
00:47:28,773 --> 00:47:30,973
Speaker 4: to speak up on what was going wrong in the

1013
00:47:31,013 --> 00:47:34,453
Speaker 4: concern over this particular submersible. Have you ever stood up

1014
00:47:34,493 --> 00:47:36,173
Speaker 4: to a manager and how did you do that? Oh,

1015
00:47:36,253 --> 00:47:38,093
Speaker 4: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

1016
00:47:38,293 --> 00:47:39,893
Speaker 2: Mike says, I stood up to a boss once when

1017
00:47:39,893 --> 00:47:42,013
Speaker 2: I was pumping gas for BP. I said, why is

1018
00:47:42,053 --> 00:47:44,493
Speaker 2: the manager at the BP down the road paying staff

1019
00:47:44,493 --> 00:47:46,613
Speaker 2: two dollars more an hour? And he told me to

1020
00:47:46,613 --> 00:47:50,093
Speaker 2: shut up in mine own business. Well, it's not quite

1021
00:47:50,093 --> 00:47:52,453
Speaker 2: the same safety issue, no, but you know, if it's wrong,

1022
00:47:52,493 --> 00:47:52,893
Speaker 2: it's wrong.

1023
00:47:53,013 --> 00:47:55,333
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, you know, but you do risk, you do

1024
00:47:55,493 --> 00:47:55,893
Speaker 4: risk a.

1025
00:47:55,813 --> 00:47:59,813
Speaker 2: Bit standing up to management. But in this case the

1026
00:47:59,853 --> 00:48:02,533
Speaker 2: CEO of the company, who by all accounts was a

1027
00:48:02,533 --> 00:48:03,293
Speaker 2: bit of a psychopath.

1028
00:48:03,573 --> 00:48:06,013
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think I think it's fair to say

1029
00:48:06,053 --> 00:48:07,652
Speaker 4: it probably is a bit of a key we trait

1030
00:48:07,693 --> 00:48:09,773
Speaker 4: that we don't like to speak up so much that

1031
00:48:09,853 --> 00:48:12,453
Speaker 4: we tend to like to keep our heads down rather

1032
00:48:12,693 --> 00:48:15,413
Speaker 4: than be the person who puts the head above the parapet.

1033
00:48:15,853 --> 00:48:18,293
Speaker 4: But if you have been that person and you decided

1034
00:48:18,333 --> 00:48:19,933
Speaker 4: to speak up, love to hear from you. On eight

1035
00:48:19,973 --> 00:48:23,053
Speaker 4: hundred and eighty ten eighty. Plenty of texts coming through

1036
00:48:23,093 --> 00:48:24,373
Speaker 4: on nine two nine two.

1037
00:48:24,453 --> 00:48:26,853
Speaker 2: This sounds like a horror movie, a plot with the psychopathic,

1038
00:48:26,933 --> 00:48:30,733
Speaker 2: sadistic murderer sending people to deep water implosion death. This

1039
00:48:30,853 --> 00:48:33,453
Speaker 2: topic makes me mentally ill. One thing, one thing that

1040
00:48:33,493 --> 00:48:36,413
Speaker 2: you would would say about Stockton Rush is he I mean,

1041
00:48:36,453 --> 00:48:40,933
Speaker 2: he died in the disaster, and so he was willing

1042
00:48:40,973 --> 00:48:46,813
Speaker 2: to put his life where his beliefs were. And in

1043
00:48:46,853 --> 00:48:50,373
Speaker 2: fact he was very keen to pilot every trip to

1044
00:48:50,413 --> 00:48:52,573
Speaker 2: the point where he was trying to pilot when David Lockwrich,

1045
00:48:52,573 --> 00:48:58,093
Speaker 2: who was supposed to be piloting the submersible, you know,

1046
00:48:58,253 --> 00:49:00,013
Speaker 2: instead of him going down. He had to argue to

1047
00:49:00,053 --> 00:49:02,573
Speaker 2: be on there, so he was willing to risk his

1048
00:49:02,613 --> 00:49:05,733
Speaker 2: own life, so he believed in it completely. As it

1049
00:49:05,733 --> 00:49:09,212
Speaker 2: turned out, it was a fantasy, but he still still

1050
00:49:09,213 --> 00:49:09,692
Speaker 2: believed it.

1051
00:49:09,933 --> 00:49:12,493
Speaker 4: If it was just him that was in that submersible

1052
00:49:12,493 --> 00:49:15,093
Speaker 4: when it imploded, I think people would look at it

1053
00:49:15,373 --> 00:49:18,652
Speaker 4: very differently. I soonaly would massively. It is only the

1054
00:49:18,653 --> 00:49:21,573
Speaker 4: fact that they were paying customers hopoard at the time,

1055
00:49:21,773 --> 00:49:24,773
Speaker 4: because there has been many people throughout history who many

1056
00:49:25,013 --> 00:49:27,093
Speaker 4: would have labeled mad for what they were doing and

1057
00:49:27,133 --> 00:49:29,373
Speaker 4: put their life on the line. But the fact that

1058
00:49:29,413 --> 00:49:32,652
Speaker 4: other people were involved is where it becomes disturbing.

1059
00:49:35,133 --> 00:49:37,853
Speaker 2: Stockton Rush's father, Stockton Rush the Second was behind the

1060
00:49:37,853 --> 00:49:42,813
Speaker 2: construction of a retreat near Tiaraw. Wow. That's very interesting

1061
00:49:42,853 --> 00:49:45,493
Speaker 2: because because Stockton Rush is the CEO of the whole

1062
00:49:45,493 --> 00:49:50,133
Speaker 2: Ocean Gate thing, is a very very blue blooded individual

1063
00:49:50,573 --> 00:49:54,453
Speaker 2: on both sides. He had ancestors at the signing of

1064
00:49:54,493 --> 00:49:58,053
Speaker 2: the you know, the the what is it, the signing

1065
00:49:58,093 --> 00:49:59,733
Speaker 2: of the Statute of Independence, whatever it was.

1066
00:49:59,813 --> 00:50:02,373
Speaker 4: Yeah, extra pressure there, quick text and then we'll get

1067
00:50:02,373 --> 00:50:03,493
Speaker 4: to some of your phone calls.

1068
00:50:04,053 --> 00:50:04,373
Speaker 2: Guys.

1069
00:50:04,413 --> 00:50:06,413
Speaker 4: I work for a supermarket company. My job was to

1070
00:50:06,453 --> 00:50:08,853
Speaker 4: help build markets and fixed problems. I was told not

1071
00:50:08,933 --> 00:50:11,373
Speaker 4: to help an owner because my boss didn't like this owner.

1072
00:50:11,413 --> 00:50:13,973
Speaker 4: She was struggling and overwhelmed. My boss wanted her to

1073
00:50:14,053 --> 00:50:16,573
Speaker 4: quit and sell the shop. She dropped dead in the

1074
00:50:16,613 --> 00:50:20,333
Speaker 4: shop and my boss said problem solved. I had a breakdown,

1075
00:50:20,493 --> 00:50:23,093
Speaker 4: walked out to the company and had to retrain.

1076
00:50:23,213 --> 00:50:28,013
Speaker 2: They just don't care. Wow, interesting, welcome to show grig.

1077
00:50:28,213 --> 00:50:31,333
Speaker 16: Yeah, yeah, just I very well what you were saying there.

1078
00:50:32,333 --> 00:50:35,493
Speaker 16: I contracted to a Manger carrier coming in the nineteen

1079
00:50:35,613 --> 00:50:38,893
Speaker 16: nineties when I came back from overseas. I only lasted

1080
00:50:38,933 --> 00:50:41,573
Speaker 16: three months and they terminated the contract. That when I

1081
00:50:41,653 --> 00:50:43,613
Speaker 16: tried to take things further, like I went to the

1082
00:50:43,653 --> 00:50:46,813
Speaker 16: homes program and feargo than others because it was a

1083
00:50:46,933 --> 00:50:51,013
Speaker 16: very much a Master seven relationship. I got pasted on

1084
00:50:51,053 --> 00:50:52,413
Speaker 16: the back at the pub by a lot of the

1085
00:50:52,413 --> 00:50:54,453
Speaker 16: guys and they said, were right behind you. But when

1086
00:50:54,453 --> 00:50:56,173
Speaker 16: it came to the crunch, there was no one to

1087
00:50:56,213 --> 00:51:00,053
Speaker 16: be seen. There's only a few people were staunched. Most

1088
00:51:00,053 --> 00:51:04,093
Speaker 16: of them look the other way and said, I don't

1089
00:51:04,133 --> 00:51:07,013
Speaker 16: bid me into it. Trees are great. When I've had

1090
00:51:07,053 --> 00:51:14,573
Speaker 16: two jokes about they're all contenders from the middleweight crown.

1091
00:51:13,973 --> 00:51:17,493
Speaker 16: But when it comes to a trunch like a company

1092
00:51:17,573 --> 00:51:20,453
Speaker 16: as that recently, I had a few issues and there's

1093
00:51:20,453 --> 00:51:22,333
Speaker 16: a couple of guys there. All three of them were

1094
00:51:22,333 --> 00:51:26,053
Speaker 16: really staunched, but others put their heads down because people

1095
00:51:26,053 --> 00:51:26,693
Speaker 16: are frightened.

1096
00:51:27,333 --> 00:51:28,213
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1097
00:51:28,253 --> 00:51:30,613
Speaker 16: But the point I'm making, and I'll stand down in

1098
00:51:30,653 --> 00:51:32,853
Speaker 16: the pub and say we'll do this, and we'll do that,

1099
00:51:32,893 --> 00:51:35,573
Speaker 16: and got on there and we're right there around the

1100
00:51:35,613 --> 00:51:38,973
Speaker 16: water corner that when it's time to draw a line

1101
00:51:39,013 --> 00:51:42,413
Speaker 16: in the sand, you don't see them aithery suddenly say

1102
00:51:42,573 --> 00:51:44,573
Speaker 16: I don't bring me into it, don't bring me into

1103
00:51:44,573 --> 00:51:45,213
Speaker 16: your problems.

1104
00:51:45,693 --> 00:51:48,573
Speaker 4: And again, Greg, it is you know, it does take

1105
00:51:48,893 --> 00:51:50,453
Speaker 4: he give a lot of courage in some of those

1106
00:51:50,453 --> 00:51:53,533
Speaker 4: situations because and I'm not defending the fellows who didn't

1107
00:51:53,573 --> 00:51:55,693
Speaker 4: come to beat you up in the end, but people

1108
00:51:55,693 --> 00:51:59,093
Speaker 4: are thinking more about themselves. They're thinking about their families

1109
00:51:59,133 --> 00:52:02,692
Speaker 4: and their mortgages and probably those around them. Rather than

1110
00:52:02,693 --> 00:52:05,413
Speaker 4: being selfish, They're thinking, how do I provide my family

1111
00:52:05,653 --> 00:52:08,253
Speaker 4: if this all goes belly up and they tarnished my

1112
00:52:08,413 --> 00:52:09,973
Speaker 4: reputation and I can't get another job.

1113
00:52:11,253 --> 00:52:14,493
Speaker 16: Yeah, yeah, I understand that too, you know, because this

1114
00:52:14,613 --> 00:52:17,693
Speaker 16: is the last episode I had. I actually caught up

1115
00:52:17,813 --> 00:52:20,093
Speaker 16: three of the guys on Saturday morning for coffee and

1116
00:52:20,133 --> 00:52:23,573
Speaker 16: they are really great storm spokes. But one of the

1117
00:52:23,613 --> 00:52:26,853
Speaker 16: other guys who didn't want to bake me up. When

1118
00:52:26,893 --> 00:52:28,813
Speaker 16: it came to the Crunch Center, I was worried. I

1119
00:52:28,853 --> 00:52:31,533
Speaker 16: had a mortgage and my head worries, and I understand

1120
00:52:31,573 --> 00:52:34,693
Speaker 16: that it's very much an imbalanced when you're up against

1121
00:52:34,733 --> 00:52:38,413
Speaker 16: the big court for it and you're on your own

1122
00:52:38,493 --> 00:52:41,733
Speaker 16: and you know it could be to get the DCM

1123
00:52:41,853 --> 00:52:43,653
Speaker 16: if you don't toe the party line.

1124
00:52:43,733 --> 00:52:47,293
Speaker 2: Basically, do you think you know, you say Greg, you

1125
00:52:47,333 --> 00:52:49,613
Speaker 2: know keys up for a few beers will stick up.

1126
00:52:49,613 --> 00:52:52,613
Speaker 2: Do you think it'd be a different a different situation

1127
00:52:53,213 --> 00:52:57,292
Speaker 2: if like in this ocean Gate situation where it's life

1128
00:52:57,293 --> 00:53:00,013
Speaker 2: and death, where with you know these people you're talking

1129
00:53:00,013 --> 00:53:01,732
Speaker 2: about that you know, you discussed it in the pub

1130
00:53:01,973 --> 00:53:03,893
Speaker 2: if it was people were going to die if they

1131
00:53:03,933 --> 00:53:06,172
Speaker 2: didn't didn't speak up, because those stakes are a bit higher,

1132
00:53:06,173 --> 00:53:06,652
Speaker 2: aren't they.

1133
00:53:07,773 --> 00:53:10,413
Speaker 16: Yeah, yeah, you would certainly hope, well, you would think

1134
00:53:10,493 --> 00:53:12,413
Speaker 16: they'd do the right thing, and we will like to

1135
00:53:12,453 --> 00:53:14,693
Speaker 16: think we would do But you just don't even know.

1136
00:53:14,973 --> 00:53:18,053
Speaker 16: People are funny and you know I side, the same

1137
00:53:18,173 --> 00:53:21,692
Speaker 16: people stand around the tub and support capital punishments and say, yeah,

1138
00:53:21,693 --> 00:53:23,893
Speaker 16: I'd do it, I'd carry it out and off and

1139
00:53:23,973 --> 00:53:27,172
Speaker 16: save the Well, yeah, I'm sure you would. This sea

1140
00:53:27,213 --> 00:53:30,373
Speaker 16: of you got put in the situation, how much you

1141
00:53:30,413 --> 00:53:30,773
Speaker 16: could do.

1142
00:53:31,053 --> 00:53:35,013
Speaker 4: I see some parallels with this situation Greg to Pike River,

1143
00:53:35,213 --> 00:53:39,213
Speaker 4: and in that circumstances we now know there were employees

1144
00:53:39,373 --> 00:53:41,413
Speaker 4: and managers who were trying to speak up when they

1145
00:53:41,413 --> 00:53:45,133
Speaker 4: were putting plastic bags on the medthane sensors and all

1146
00:53:45,173 --> 00:53:48,053
Speaker 4: of these shortcuts they were trying to make because the

1147
00:53:48,053 --> 00:53:50,652
Speaker 4: company was losing money. And then, of course we know

1148
00:53:50,693 --> 00:53:53,893
Speaker 4: what happened. But that again you've got employees and managers

1149
00:53:53,893 --> 00:53:58,173
Speaker 4: trying to speak up and being threatened that if you

1150
00:53:58,493 --> 00:54:00,893
Speaker 4: try and speak up, you're going to lose your job

1151
00:54:00,973 --> 00:54:04,093
Speaker 4: and you'll never work in this town. Again. Clearly this

1152
00:54:04,373 --> 00:54:07,173
Speaker 4: is something that repeats itself in many industries.

1153
00:54:08,493 --> 00:54:10,733
Speaker 16: Oh yeah, well, I mean, I from what I understand

1154
00:54:10,813 --> 00:54:14,973
Speaker 16: to source about Pipe River, even some of the workers

1155
00:54:14,973 --> 00:54:17,693
Speaker 16: were doing things and no mean to dis first the

1156
00:54:17,733 --> 00:54:22,093
Speaker 16: memory of anyone who died there all pasters any black

1157
00:54:22,173 --> 00:54:24,893
Speaker 16: marks on them. But the company offering bonuses and that

1158
00:54:25,173 --> 00:54:29,333
Speaker 16: makes people you know you can they are what the

1159
00:54:29,413 --> 00:54:32,853
Speaker 16: hell you know? Be a good bonus and the management

1160
00:54:32,853 --> 00:54:36,813
Speaker 16: of promising bonuses and guys will turn a blind I

1161
00:54:36,973 --> 00:54:39,093
Speaker 16: assume and nature we've all been guilty of it.

1162
00:54:39,813 --> 00:54:42,653
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank of you. Cool Greg, This is an interesting text.

1163
00:54:43,133 --> 00:54:46,013
Speaker 2: You have just respoiled the Titan doco. Now for all

1164
00:54:46,013 --> 00:54:48,133
Speaker 2: the people who haven't had the privilege to watch it yet,

1165
00:54:48,813 --> 00:54:51,453
Speaker 2: I think how many people in the world don't know

1166
00:54:51,453 --> 00:54:52,533
Speaker 2: what happened with the Titan thing.

1167
00:54:52,893 --> 00:54:55,013
Speaker 4: It's not it's like something This is not fiction.

1168
00:54:55,293 --> 00:54:58,773
Speaker 2: It's like it's like someone going to the Titanic movie

1169
00:54:59,253 --> 00:55:01,853
Speaker 2: and then coming out and going, it sunk, sink, It's

1170
00:55:01,893 --> 00:55:04,733
Speaker 2: sunk at the end. So spoiler Yeah, come on, I

1171
00:55:04,733 --> 00:55:07,293
Speaker 2: didn't know that it sunk. I think the fact that

1172
00:55:06,893 --> 00:55:15,013
Speaker 2: the Titan and loaded, it's pretty well it was only

1173
00:55:15,013 --> 00:55:17,893
Speaker 2: the biggest story of twenty twenty three, or one of

1174
00:55:17,933 --> 00:55:20,212
Speaker 2: the biggest stories of twenty twenty three. I mean, why

1175
00:55:20,213 --> 00:55:22,013
Speaker 2: are you watching that documentary if you don't know anything

1176
00:55:22,013 --> 00:55:22,333
Speaker 2: about it?

1177
00:55:22,373 --> 00:55:25,493
Speaker 4: If you were in an Antarctica during that whole saga,

1178
00:55:25,693 --> 00:55:27,973
Speaker 4: apologize to those people, But for everybody else, you know

1179
00:55:28,013 --> 00:55:29,453
Speaker 4: what happened. It imploded?

1180
00:55:29,573 --> 00:55:32,013
Speaker 2: Come on, come on, MIBs. You can't have a spoiler

1181
00:55:32,053 --> 00:55:37,693
Speaker 2: on it. That's a good text. Veryay, thank you, sorry

1182
00:55:37,773 --> 00:55:41,853
Speaker 2: for spoiling what happened with the Ocean Gate Titan submissible?

1183
00:55:42,013 --> 00:55:44,493
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number

1184
00:55:44,493 --> 00:55:46,893
Speaker 4: to call if you've ever stood up to a boss

1185
00:55:46,933 --> 00:55:48,853
Speaker 4: rom manager. Love to hear from you how hard was

1186
00:55:48,893 --> 00:55:51,453
Speaker 4: it and what was going on? And also if you've

1187
00:55:51,493 --> 00:55:54,653
Speaker 4: seen this documentary, love to get your thoughts. It's gone

1188
00:55:54,693 --> 00:55:57,253
Speaker 4: to number one on Netflix by a country miles, so

1189
00:55:57,253 --> 00:55:59,293
Speaker 4: many people chatting about it. Can to hear from you.

1190
00:55:59,373 --> 00:56:00,813
Speaker 4: It is twenty six past two.

1191
00:56:05,213 --> 00:56:09,573
Speaker 1: Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons, call OH eighty on

1192
00:56:09,693 --> 00:56:10,533
Speaker 1: news talk ZV.

1193
00:56:10,973 --> 00:56:13,573
Speaker 4: Very good afternoon. We're talking about a new documentary that

1194
00:56:13,733 --> 00:56:18,013
Speaker 4: has just been released about the Titan disaster. It's on Netflix,

1195
00:56:18,053 --> 00:56:20,853
Speaker 4: shot to number one by a country mile. Many many

1196
00:56:20,853 --> 00:56:25,413
Speaker 4: people are talking about it. Incredibly compelling and disturbing documentary.

1197
00:56:25,493 --> 00:56:27,973
Speaker 4: The number of shortcuts and things that were going wrong,

1198
00:56:28,013 --> 00:56:30,333
Speaker 4: and the number of staffers who tried to speak up

1199
00:56:31,133 --> 00:56:33,173
Speaker 4: and either got put to one side or told to

1200
00:56:33,173 --> 00:56:34,813
Speaker 4: shut up, and that's what they did. So keen to

1201
00:56:34,853 --> 00:56:36,692
Speaker 4: hear from you. On oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

1202
00:56:36,693 --> 00:56:38,893
Speaker 4: Have you ever stood up to a boss or a

1203
00:56:39,013 --> 00:56:40,413
Speaker 4: manager and what happens?

1204
00:56:41,813 --> 00:56:45,293
Speaker 2: This text to here sort of sum things up quite

1205
00:56:45,373 --> 00:56:48,773
Speaker 2: nicely that guy Stockton was an absolute plonker. Yeah, yeah,

1206
00:56:48,933 --> 00:56:51,013
Speaker 2: I think he was a planker. But he was also

1207
00:56:51,053 --> 00:56:51,933
Speaker 2: a deadly plonker.

1208
00:56:52,053 --> 00:56:54,413
Speaker 4: Yeah, he certainly was. The other question I've just been

1209
00:56:54,453 --> 00:56:56,893
Speaker 4: thinking about while we're having this discussion is what do

1210
00:56:56,973 --> 00:56:59,133
Speaker 4: you actually do about a bad boss? Like a boss

1211
00:56:59,213 --> 00:56:59,413
Speaker 4: like that?

1212
00:56:59,613 --> 00:57:00,373
Speaker 17: Do you just.

1213
00:57:00,453 --> 00:57:03,732
Speaker 4: Leave without saying anything? Because a lot of people would

1214
00:57:03,773 --> 00:57:05,773
Speaker 4: do that if they're in a situation and maybe not

1215
00:57:05,893 --> 00:57:09,373
Speaker 4: quite to the same a lot of what was going

1216
00:57:09,413 --> 00:57:12,013
Speaker 4: on with the Titan sub of course, but many people

1217
00:57:12,013 --> 00:57:14,212
Speaker 4: would be in a situation where their boss might be

1218
00:57:14,293 --> 00:57:17,893
Speaker 4: doing something a little bit dodgy, might not be completely illegal,

1219
00:57:18,253 --> 00:57:20,813
Speaker 4: but instead of speaking up or saying anything, they'll just

1220
00:57:20,813 --> 00:57:22,773
Speaker 4: find another job. Is that the right thing to do?

1221
00:57:22,853 --> 00:57:25,293
Speaker 4: If you know something is going wrong at your place

1222
00:57:25,333 --> 00:57:27,813
Speaker 4: of work? Is it okay just to walk away without

1223
00:57:27,813 --> 00:57:28,413
Speaker 4: saying anything?

1224
00:57:28,453 --> 00:57:30,453
Speaker 2: I see what you're saying, so you know, you wash

1225
00:57:30,533 --> 00:57:32,853
Speaker 2: your hands of it, but you leave other people to

1226
00:57:33,333 --> 00:57:37,893
Speaker 2: face the danger, or you know, the horrible environment, whatever

1227
00:57:37,933 --> 00:57:39,933
Speaker 2: it is. Yeah, I don't know, but it's a lot

1228
00:57:39,933 --> 00:57:42,333
Speaker 2: to ask some people that are just getting by day

1229
00:57:42,333 --> 00:57:44,693
Speaker 2: to day to then fight the big fight. We're not

1230
00:57:44,733 --> 00:57:47,333
Speaker 2: all Aaron Brockovich's you know. You know, some of us

1231
00:57:47,373 --> 00:57:50,653
Speaker 2: are just getting through, and sometimes people just have to

1232
00:57:50,693 --> 00:57:52,853
Speaker 2: jump on the lifeboat for themselves and get out of there. Yeah,

1233
00:57:53,013 --> 00:57:55,133
Speaker 2: very good point. Hey, this person's still going on about

1234
00:57:55,133 --> 00:57:58,133
Speaker 2: the spoilers. You have still advised some spoilers with the

1235
00:57:58,213 --> 00:58:04,173
Speaker 2: characters involved. You can't go laughing at me, Yes I can,

1236
00:58:04,413 --> 00:58:07,213
Speaker 2: because it's a documentary, so naming the people that are

1237
00:58:07,213 --> 00:58:09,373
Speaker 2: in it. This is actually hurt in my head. But

1238
00:58:09,413 --> 00:58:13,493
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's not a spoiler to talk about a

1239
00:58:13,613 --> 00:58:16,613
Speaker 2: news event and what happened in it and the names

1240
00:58:16,613 --> 00:58:18,613
Speaker 2: of the people and what they've said in the documentary.

1241
00:58:18,653 --> 00:58:21,413
Speaker 2: You do not understand what the idea of a spoiler.

1242
00:58:21,693 --> 00:58:24,533
Speaker 2: A spoiler is when you say what happened at the

1243
00:58:24,733 --> 00:58:27,853
Speaker 2: end of the sixth sense, that's a spoiler exactly. Okay,

1244
00:58:28,333 --> 00:58:31,813
Speaker 2: So you Texter, love you to death, but you don't

1245
00:58:31,853 --> 00:58:35,093
Speaker 2: understand what a spoiler is, So I'd recommend you just

1246
00:58:35,173 --> 00:58:35,453
Speaker 2: leave it.

1247
00:58:35,933 --> 00:58:38,213
Speaker 4: We played the trailer and for a documentary that's one

1248
00:58:38,253 --> 00:58:40,493
Speaker 4: hundred and eleven minutes. We only spoke about what's in

1249
00:58:40,533 --> 00:58:43,013
Speaker 4: the actual documentary for about three minutes, so plenty to

1250
00:58:43,053 --> 00:58:45,653
Speaker 4: watch their Dear Texter. We're not spoiling anything, but as

1251
00:58:45,693 --> 00:58:47,413
Speaker 4: you say, it was, it was an actual news event.

1252
00:58:47,493 --> 00:58:49,293
Speaker 4: Then everybody knew what happened in twenty twenty three.

1253
00:58:49,413 --> 00:58:51,213
Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel people are just searching around in the

1254
00:58:51,293 --> 00:58:54,053
Speaker 2: dark for somebody to complain about, just desperately trying to

1255
00:58:54,093 --> 00:58:57,253
Speaker 2: find something to feel offended and to lash out about.

1256
00:58:57,413 --> 00:58:59,813
Speaker 4: Go watch it. It's a great doco, right, headlines coming up,

1257
00:58:59,853 --> 00:59:02,013
Speaker 4: and then we've got plenty of people who want to

1258
00:59:02,013 --> 00:59:03,573
Speaker 4: have a shed is twenty nine to three.

1259
00:59:03,693 --> 00:59:05,173
Speaker 2: That's right. It was a red flag that they were

1260
00:59:05,213 --> 00:59:10,293
Speaker 2: using a PlayStation controller two two. Let's operate the titan.

1261
00:59:12,893 --> 00:59:16,453
Speaker 10: You talk said, be headlines with blue bubble taxis, it's

1262
00:59:16,533 --> 00:59:19,773
Speaker 10: no trouble with a blue bubble. A prominent sarmo and

1263
00:59:19,853 --> 00:59:23,333
Speaker 10: fashion designer who was fatally shot at an anti Trump

1264
00:59:23,373 --> 00:59:28,173
Speaker 10: protest in Utah yesterday has died. Arthur for Laarsa Alou

1265
00:59:28,333 --> 00:59:31,893
Speaker 10: is being described by local police as an innocent bystander.

1266
00:59:32,333 --> 00:59:34,533
Speaker 10: The thirty nine year old's collections have been shown at

1267
00:59:34,533 --> 00:59:39,213
Speaker 10: events like Fiji Fashion and Pacific Runway. Concerns are being

1268
00:59:39,333 --> 00:59:42,533
Speaker 10: raised by one or two locals over a previously unheard

1269
00:59:42,573 --> 00:59:46,773
Speaker 10: of radioactive waste facility. The facility has been storing old

1270
00:59:46,893 --> 00:59:50,533
Speaker 10: uranium near Palmerston North, having been built and opened without

1271
00:59:50,653 --> 00:59:55,413
Speaker 10: public consultation. The Prime Minister, Police Minister and Commissioner are

1272
00:59:55,453 --> 00:59:58,613
Speaker 10: all confident body cameras would make a difference and should

1273
00:59:58,653 --> 01:00:01,013
Speaker 10: be looked at. A decision on the tech was put

1274
01:00:01,053 --> 01:00:05,093
Speaker 10: off last year. The maximum weekly parental leave rate is

1275
01:00:05,173 --> 01:00:08,573
Speaker 10: going up by almost thirty four dollars. Eligible parents can

1276
01:00:08,613 --> 01:00:12,173
Speaker 10: receive payments for up to twenty six weeks. How to

1277
01:00:12,453 --> 01:00:15,493
Speaker 10: divorce Well a key we lawyer on how to avoid

1278
01:00:15,573 --> 01:00:18,573
Speaker 10: mistakes many couples make. You can see the story at

1279
01:00:18,573 --> 01:00:21,893
Speaker 10: inn said Herold Premium Back to matt Ethan Tyner Adams.

1280
01:00:21,933 --> 01:00:23,933
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Rayleen, And we're talking about a

1281
01:00:23,933 --> 01:00:27,173
Speaker 4: documentary that landed over the weekend on Netflix and has

1282
01:00:27,293 --> 01:00:30,413
Speaker 4: very quickly shot to the number one most watched on

1283
01:00:30,453 --> 01:00:33,613
Speaker 4: the platform. It's called Titan, the Ocean Gate disaster and

1284
01:00:33,733 --> 01:00:37,773
Speaker 4: analyzes what went so wrong when that submersible imploded in

1285
01:00:37,773 --> 01:00:38,533
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three.

1286
01:00:38,773 --> 01:00:41,333
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was a whistleblowers and people that tried

1287
01:00:41,373 --> 01:00:45,413
Speaker 2: to warn the CEO Stockton lockin rush. So we're just asking,

1288
01:00:45,693 --> 01:00:47,813
Speaker 2: how do you stand up to it to a powerful

1289
01:00:47,853 --> 01:00:50,373
Speaker 2: boss and have you done that? You have you attempted

1290
01:00:50,413 --> 01:00:51,093
Speaker 2: to do what's right?

1291
01:00:51,453 --> 01:00:51,693
Speaker 4: Now?

1292
01:00:51,733 --> 01:00:54,013
Speaker 2: Speaking of what's right and what's wrong, there's a way

1293
01:00:54,053 --> 01:00:59,213
Speaker 2: to describe tragedies and there's a wrong way if you

1294
01:00:59,253 --> 01:01:01,213
Speaker 2: want to get sympathy from people, and you can reveal

1295
01:01:01,253 --> 01:01:03,653
Speaker 2: a bit about yourself when you're on one of these documentaries.

1296
01:01:04,053 --> 01:01:09,533
Speaker 2: So there's a influencer, a YouTube influencer called Jake Kohler

1297
01:01:09,853 --> 01:01:14,253
Speaker 2: who's a diving influencer, and he went along to to

1298
01:01:14,373 --> 01:01:18,333
Speaker 2: you know, basically cover the Ocean, the Ocean Gate and

1299
01:01:18,573 --> 01:01:21,813
Speaker 2: the Titan submersible. But his his in his situation, it

1300
01:01:21,853 --> 01:01:24,093
Speaker 2: didn't go down on his time because the weather was wrong.

1301
01:01:24,573 --> 01:01:26,933
Speaker 2: And so he's interviewed in the in the in the

1302
01:01:26,973 --> 01:01:31,453
Speaker 2: documentary and he they show him turning up and following

1303
01:01:31,453 --> 01:01:34,093
Speaker 2: it whatever. But but he said this about the tragedy.

1304
01:01:34,973 --> 01:01:38,853
Speaker 18: Playform because the condensation ontim say this submersible you see

1305
01:01:38,893 --> 01:01:41,093
Speaker 18: it beat him. Later on, I remember they had the

1306
01:01:41,173 --> 01:01:43,893
Speaker 18: cran holding out the dom after everyone had passed away,

1307
01:01:43,933 --> 01:01:46,773
Speaker 18: and I just remembered my feet was literally on that dome,

1308
01:01:46,933 --> 01:01:48,973
Speaker 18: you know, just a few days before, and I'm just

1309
01:01:49,013 --> 01:01:52,293
Speaker 18: thinking like damn, you know, like, look that was me,

1310
01:01:54,533 --> 01:01:55,493
Speaker 18: super tough.

1311
01:01:56,093 --> 01:01:59,733
Speaker 2: There's he's crying and he goes, damn. I thought, damn,

1312
01:02:00,733 --> 01:02:04,373
Speaker 2: what what if that was me? As opposed to damn

1313
01:02:04,573 --> 01:02:09,213
Speaker 2: a father and son died in this horrible incident all

1314
01:02:09,213 --> 01:02:12,293
Speaker 2: he could fok about. I'm sure it was just misspoke,

1315
01:02:12,373 --> 01:02:14,613
Speaker 2: but it just looked at the moment, it's like, Damn,

1316
01:02:15,773 --> 01:02:18,213
Speaker 2: he's crying. You're thinking that he's thinking about the full

1317
01:02:18,293 --> 01:02:20,453
Speaker 2: horror of the situation of those poor people that died.

1318
01:02:20,493 --> 01:02:22,853
Speaker 2: But then he goes, damn, that could have been me.

1319
01:02:23,093 --> 01:02:24,773
Speaker 4: It was a bad log, but definitely when you've got

1320
01:02:24,773 --> 01:02:27,413
Speaker 4: a camera in your face. But yeah, that stood out

1321
01:02:27,413 --> 01:02:29,813
Speaker 4: for me as well. Oh one hundred and eighty ten

1322
01:02:29,853 --> 01:02:30,613
Speaker 4: eightyen is then number?

1323
01:02:30,733 --> 01:02:33,253
Speaker 2: Call a John. You've pushed back on a bos before.

1324
01:02:34,413 --> 01:02:34,733
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1325
01:02:35,133 --> 01:02:41,293
Speaker 19: Yeah. Working in a warehouse and at the end of

1326
01:02:41,293 --> 01:02:45,893
Speaker 19: the working day, one of the young staff there brought

1327
01:02:45,893 --> 01:02:48,613
Speaker 19: the van into the warehouse and he shouldn't have been

1328
01:02:48,613 --> 01:02:51,253
Speaker 19: doing it, didn't have a license, was an author. I said,

1329
01:02:51,333 --> 01:02:54,213
Speaker 19: drive it and he hit the door pillar.

1330
01:02:55,573 --> 01:02:55,893
Speaker 6: Right.

1331
01:02:56,493 --> 01:02:58,213
Speaker 19: Di's some damage to the van now, this van was

1332
01:02:58,213 --> 01:03:02,413
Speaker 19: a beaten up, crappy old van worth very little. Anyway,

1333
01:03:03,093 --> 01:03:07,733
Speaker 19: the senior manager decided he'd make an insurance claim, and

1334
01:03:07,933 --> 01:03:12,813
Speaker 19: of course, you know he was going to falsify things.

1335
01:03:12,933 --> 01:03:15,493
Speaker 19: He was going to get somebody else to say they

1336
01:03:15,813 --> 01:03:21,573
Speaker 19: had been driving, that is a license driver, so we

1337
01:03:21,613 --> 01:03:26,013
Speaker 19: could put a claim through, which was a total lie.

1338
01:03:26,133 --> 01:03:26,333
Speaker 20: You know.

1339
01:03:27,533 --> 01:03:31,293
Speaker 19: So I trotted off to a couple of other little

1340
01:03:31,373 --> 01:03:33,773
Speaker 19: managers and said, you know this is not right. You know,

1341
01:03:35,653 --> 01:03:38,973
Speaker 19: you asking somebody else to lie and say they were driving.

1342
01:03:40,293 --> 01:03:45,253
Speaker 19: And if you, as a company get found out lying

1343
01:03:45,293 --> 01:03:47,493
Speaker 19: about an insurance saying, you know, you could get a

1344
01:03:47,533 --> 01:03:51,613
Speaker 19: black name for your company, that could affect your any

1345
01:03:51,653 --> 01:03:56,093
Speaker 19: old any of your policies going forward, you know. And

1346
01:03:56,133 --> 01:03:58,533
Speaker 19: that's not counting the fact that's just playing wrong on

1347
01:03:58,613 --> 01:03:59,173
Speaker 19: the first pace.

1348
01:03:59,373 --> 01:04:03,413
Speaker 2: How was that received, John, Well, I.

1349
01:04:03,453 --> 01:04:07,133
Speaker 19: Never heard really much from the senior manager, but I

1350
01:04:07,173 --> 01:04:12,293
Speaker 19: know he did change changes tech and and not go

1351
01:04:12,453 --> 01:04:16,813
Speaker 19: down that false claim route, much to my pleasure.

1352
01:04:18,053 --> 01:04:21,333
Speaker 2: How big was the company, John, Oh?

1353
01:04:21,693 --> 01:04:24,773
Speaker 19: You know, in the millions of dollars of turn You know,

1354
01:04:24,773 --> 01:04:25,893
Speaker 19: it wasn't a tiny place.

1355
01:04:25,933 --> 01:04:28,453
Speaker 2: You know, that's incredibly risky because if you did it.

1356
01:04:28,493 --> 01:04:30,893
Speaker 19: Twenty and thirty stuff. Yeah, that's what I thought.

1357
01:04:31,013 --> 01:04:32,773
Speaker 2: If you get a bad name for you know, if

1358
01:04:32,893 --> 01:04:36,293
Speaker 2: if you're caught forra you know, committing insurance for arauder

1359
01:04:36,413 --> 01:04:39,133
Speaker 2: and yeah, and your company can't get insurance for anything

1360
01:04:39,253 --> 01:04:40,813
Speaker 2: ever again that's the interview company.

1361
01:04:40,853 --> 01:04:44,213
Speaker 19: Yeah, well, I couldn't understand it. It was just it

1362
01:04:44,253 --> 01:04:46,853
Speaker 19: was a wacky sort of a thing to even consider.

1363
01:04:46,893 --> 01:04:48,733
Speaker 19: You know, the van was a crappy old van. It

1364
01:04:48,813 --> 01:04:51,893
Speaker 19: was due for the scrap beep anyway, it'd been on

1365
01:04:51,933 --> 01:04:54,533
Speaker 19: the had been on the schedule to be replaced for years.

1366
01:04:55,333 --> 01:04:57,973
Speaker 19: It was it was partly a function of the place

1367
01:04:58,253 --> 01:05:00,093
Speaker 19: you used to operate on, a on a bit of

1368
01:05:00,173 --> 01:05:03,773
Speaker 19: a tight reign, a bit of a you know, miserly

1369
01:05:03,933 --> 01:05:06,213
Speaker 19: and you know they were trying to chisel every extra

1370
01:05:06,293 --> 01:05:07,973
Speaker 19: dollar they could everywhere they could find it.

1371
01:05:08,013 --> 01:05:11,053
Speaker 4: And you certainly did them a favor, John. But were

1372
01:05:11,093 --> 01:05:13,173
Speaker 4: you when you spoke up where you're worried about they

1373
01:05:13,253 --> 01:05:15,173
Speaker 4: might try and give you the flick? Was there any

1374
01:05:15,253 --> 01:05:16,373
Speaker 4: that of that consideration.

1375
01:05:16,813 --> 01:05:20,013
Speaker 19: Well, it's a little bit, yes, But you know, I

1376
01:05:20,093 --> 01:05:23,373
Speaker 19: was really had up about it. It was so so

1377
01:05:23,693 --> 01:05:26,173
Speaker 19: off the wall, such a ridiculous thing to be doing.

1378
01:05:26,533 --> 01:05:29,613
Speaker 19: I was really I was like a steam train going mate.

1379
01:05:29,973 --> 01:05:33,453
Speaker 2: Shut on you, John, the sticks it doesn't agree, he says,

1380
01:05:33,733 --> 01:05:35,693
Speaker 2: who gives a crap about an insurance company? They're the

1381
01:05:35,733 --> 01:05:37,613
Speaker 2: biggest crops of all. Yeah. But I don't think John

1382
01:05:37,613 --> 01:05:40,573
Speaker 2: was trying to save the insurance company. No, necessarily, he

1383
01:05:40,653 --> 01:05:43,093
Speaker 2: was doing it because the right thing, because telling lies

1384
01:05:43,173 --> 01:05:46,093
Speaker 2: is wrong. But also the blowback if you get busted

1385
01:05:46,133 --> 01:05:49,493
Speaker 2: for faking, you know, and you get done for trying

1386
01:05:49,493 --> 01:05:52,173
Speaker 2: to scam an insurance company, no more insurance for your company.

1387
01:05:52,253 --> 01:05:54,893
Speaker 4: Yeah, and everybody loses their job. Good on you, John,

1388
01:05:54,893 --> 01:05:55,773
Speaker 4: Thanks for giving us a.

1389
01:05:55,733 --> 01:06:00,493
Speaker 2: Buzz so grant you're in the aviation industry.

1390
01:06:01,013 --> 01:06:02,293
Speaker 3: Yeah, good afternoon, guys.

1391
01:06:02,333 --> 01:06:03,053
Speaker 20: I'm no spoiler.

1392
01:06:03,053 --> 01:06:05,053
Speaker 3: Please don't tell me who wins the Moto GP this

1393
01:06:05,133 --> 01:06:11,133
Speaker 3: weekend in aviation and on the engineering side and also

1394
01:06:11,173 --> 01:06:13,413
Speaker 3: the flying side. And I did watch this the other night,

1395
01:06:13,453 --> 01:06:16,293
Speaker 3: and it was one of those interesting things where we

1396
01:06:16,413 --> 01:06:18,613
Speaker 3: have in the industry. As an old add is, there

1397
01:06:18,613 --> 01:06:22,213
Speaker 3: are no new accidents. And I fully believe that because

1398
01:06:22,693 --> 01:06:24,773
Speaker 3: this was pretty much just a combination of all the

1399
01:06:24,773 --> 01:06:26,933
Speaker 3: different things that have happened before in different accidents as

1400
01:06:26,973 --> 01:06:30,053
Speaker 3: well and ones that I can sort of allude to.

1401
01:06:30,293 --> 01:06:30,933
Speaker 6: We call them.

1402
01:06:30,853 --> 01:06:35,413
Speaker 3: Organizational accidents where there's a total lack of communication from

1403
01:06:35,453 --> 01:06:38,973
Speaker 3: the top down within a company, there's no safety culture,

1404
01:06:39,013 --> 01:06:41,933
Speaker 3: there's no company culture. And a good example I guess

1405
01:06:41,933 --> 01:06:45,373
Speaker 3: of a company culture is when you have good staff retention. Well,

1406
01:06:45,373 --> 01:06:47,773
Speaker 3: if you kept looking through that documentary the other night,

1407
01:06:48,093 --> 01:06:49,533
Speaker 3: the staff for retention wasn't there.

1408
01:06:49,533 --> 01:06:52,613
Speaker 5: It was like a conveyor belt, so you know, and.

1409
01:06:52,533 --> 01:06:55,653
Speaker 3: That's a good indicator on good company culture, just culture

1410
01:06:55,693 --> 01:06:58,733
Speaker 3: where you can actually speak up with no form of

1411
01:06:58,773 --> 01:07:02,493
Speaker 3: retribution coming your way. But you know, we're a heavily regulated,

1412
01:07:02,573 --> 01:07:05,293
Speaker 3: if not the most regulated industry on the planet in aviation.

1413
01:07:05,373 --> 01:07:08,293
Speaker 3: But then again, Tho's maritime, and that fell under maritime.

1414
01:07:08,413 --> 01:07:10,733
Speaker 3: But I was stopped and his crew the other just

1415
01:07:10,773 --> 01:07:14,253
Speaker 3: a blatant shunning of the certification process behind that as well.

1416
01:07:14,773 --> 01:07:17,013
Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand right on the ground what they did

1417
01:07:17,173 --> 01:07:20,093
Speaker 2: was they sort of didn't set themselves in any particular

1418
01:07:20,093 --> 01:07:23,093
Speaker 2: country though were between the US, Canada and the Bahamas,

1419
01:07:23,133 --> 01:07:26,613
Speaker 2: I believe, so they didn't they didn't get any certification

1420
01:07:26,933 --> 01:07:28,933
Speaker 2: at all, none at all.

1421
01:07:28,973 --> 01:07:30,853
Speaker 3: And you can put that down to what, you know,

1422
01:07:30,893 --> 01:07:33,493
Speaker 3: what we can call drift or a normalization of defiance.

1423
01:07:33,533 --> 01:07:36,893
Speaker 3: But organizational accidents, and you can probably argue that just

1424
01:07:36,933 --> 01:07:39,373
Speaker 3: about every accident on the planet could be an organization

1425
01:07:39,533 --> 01:07:41,853
Speaker 3: and one where it's top down driven. And you have

1426
01:07:41,973 --> 01:07:44,813
Speaker 3: some key ones that I can think of, plank rivers one.

1427
01:07:45,533 --> 01:07:47,413
Speaker 3: You could probably even go back to seventy nine, you know,

1428
01:07:47,453 --> 01:07:50,573
Speaker 3: the DC ten that we lost down on Erebus organizational accident.

1429
01:07:50,573 --> 01:07:53,813
Speaker 3: You might remember Peter Marn's favorite famous line on that one.

1430
01:07:53,733 --> 01:07:56,693
Speaker 2: And orchestrated litany of lies was that it yeah, that

1431
01:07:56,853 --> 01:07:57,173
Speaker 2: was the.

1432
01:07:57,053 --> 01:08:02,453
Speaker 3: One oval yeah, cave creach and over on the Herald

1433
01:08:02,453 --> 01:08:05,893
Speaker 3: of Free Enterprise, which was a a y roll on

1434
01:08:06,013 --> 01:08:07,973
Speaker 3: roll off area that came out of Zebraga and Belgium

1435
01:08:07,973 --> 01:08:10,373
Speaker 3: and rolled over because the balla doors were left open

1436
01:08:10,893 --> 01:08:15,173
Speaker 3: on the thing. But usually when a CEO is blatantly,

1437
01:08:15,933 --> 01:08:19,173
Speaker 3: you know, shunning safety, it's going to go down right

1438
01:08:19,213 --> 01:08:21,773
Speaker 3: through the whole thing like a like a disease. And

1439
01:08:21,813 --> 01:08:24,852
Speaker 3: this is why we have what we call safety management systems.

1440
01:08:24,893 --> 01:08:29,053
Speaker 3: Within the aviation industry. Everything on an aircraft has a

1441
01:08:29,093 --> 01:08:31,612
Speaker 3: finite life, and that thing might have been fine. Carbon

1442
01:08:31,652 --> 01:08:34,852
Speaker 3: fiber might have been fine if it was certificated and

1443
01:08:34,973 --> 01:08:37,173
Speaker 3: also had a finite life on the thing where it

1444
01:08:37,213 --> 01:08:40,173
Speaker 3: was to do say x amount of die right post

1445
01:08:40,333 --> 01:08:42,452
Speaker 3: was eighty two or something eighty two, I think it did.

1446
01:08:43,452 --> 01:08:46,692
Speaker 2: It was in the yearly eighties that had imploded. But yeah,

1447
01:08:46,732 --> 01:08:49,093
Speaker 2: I mean that's reject I mean, I mean exactly. And

1448
01:08:49,412 --> 01:08:51,652
Speaker 2: the thing with stopped and rush as he hired people

1449
01:08:51,652 --> 01:08:54,372
Speaker 2: for their expertise, and when they use their expertise to

1450
01:08:54,412 --> 01:08:57,452
Speaker 2: tell them that this isn't good, he then fired them

1451
01:08:57,572 --> 01:09:00,652
Speaker 2: and hired new people. And what it seemed has the

1452
01:09:00,652 --> 01:09:04,132
Speaker 2: money people with less expertise until they got the answer

1453
01:09:04,133 --> 01:09:07,492
Speaker 2: he wanted, which is just, you know, and looking back,

1454
01:09:07,652 --> 01:09:09,012
Speaker 2: a recipe for disaster.

1455
01:09:10,053 --> 01:09:10,652
Speaker 17: It certainly is.

1456
01:09:10,692 --> 01:09:13,532
Speaker 3: And you're very right about his father's Stockton Rush too.

1457
01:09:14,333 --> 01:09:17,092
Speaker 3: In fact, this is downe I'm down in the Southland

1458
01:09:17,133 --> 01:09:19,612
Speaker 3: area and have flown over that lodge many many times.

1459
01:09:19,652 --> 01:09:22,053
Speaker 3: It's called to Carro Lodge and it's upper river called

1460
01:09:22,093 --> 01:09:24,612
Speaker 3: the upuck Aora River which flows back into Lake Peano,

1461
01:09:25,133 --> 01:09:27,012
Speaker 3: and I believe the building's still there.

1462
01:09:27,133 --> 01:09:27,772
Speaker 2: He's long gone.

1463
01:09:27,812 --> 01:09:29,892
Speaker 3: He died away back in sixty nine, I think, but

1464
01:09:30,013 --> 01:09:34,052
Speaker 3: he started up and it was a unique luxury retreat

1465
01:09:34,173 --> 01:09:36,452
Speaker 3: down there that had solid gold taps and all sorts

1466
01:09:36,492 --> 01:09:36,812
Speaker 3: of stuff.

1467
01:09:36,812 --> 01:09:38,572
Speaker 2: It's in a beautiful area of the world. But that

1468
01:09:38,652 --> 01:09:42,333
Speaker 2: was his dad. Yeah again, he sounds like a better

1469
01:09:42,372 --> 01:09:46,253
Speaker 2: stocked and rush. Yeah, then the ocean gates stocked and rush.

1470
01:09:46,412 --> 01:09:47,293
Speaker 2: Just on the carbon hull.

1471
01:09:47,333 --> 01:09:50,333
Speaker 4: You reminded me when he called it it's seasoning. We're

1472
01:09:50,372 --> 01:09:53,093
Speaker 4: seasoning the carbon hull, and they said that's not how

1473
01:09:53,093 --> 01:09:55,092
Speaker 4: it works. You don't season carbon.

1474
01:09:55,253 --> 01:09:57,093
Speaker 2: Well, when it was going down and they had a

1475
01:09:57,093 --> 01:10:00,372
Speaker 2: bunch of recording devices on it to listen to, you know,

1476
01:10:00,412 --> 01:10:01,972
Speaker 2: what was happening with the hull, and it was making

1477
01:10:02,013 --> 01:10:04,572
Speaker 2: these big spikes when you looked at it of sound.

1478
01:10:05,133 --> 01:10:08,293
Speaker 2: His response was to get rid of the recording device.

1479
01:10:09,053 --> 01:10:12,093
Speaker 2: If we don't hear it, it's not mad dog. Right.

1480
01:10:12,093 --> 01:10:13,772
Speaker 4: We're going to say more of your phone calls very shortly.

1481
01:10:13,772 --> 01:10:15,612
Speaker 4: Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number

1482
01:10:15,652 --> 01:10:18,253
Speaker 4: to call if you've stood up to a manager or boss.

1483
01:10:18,333 --> 01:10:19,852
Speaker 2: What happened and how did you go about it.

1484
01:10:19,853 --> 01:10:20,692
Speaker 4: It's quarter to three.

1485
01:10:21,772 --> 01:10:25,133
Speaker 1: Matt Heath Taylor Adams with you as your afternoon rolls

1486
01:10:25,213 --> 01:10:28,612
Speaker 1: on Mad Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons news Talks.

1487
01:10:28,652 --> 01:10:31,013
Speaker 4: That'd be very good afternoon cheer. We're talking about a

1488
01:10:31,053 --> 01:10:33,412
Speaker 4: new documentary that is out on Netflix. That is quickly

1489
01:10:33,412 --> 01:10:36,372
Speaker 4: shot to number one. It's about the Titan. It's called Titan,

1490
01:10:36,572 --> 01:10:39,492
Speaker 4: the Ocean Gate disaster. But we've asked you the question

1491
01:10:39,532 --> 01:10:41,133
Speaker 4: when did you have to stand up to a boss

1492
01:10:41,253 --> 01:10:44,692
Speaker 4: or manager? Because in this documentary it is very clear

1493
01:10:44,772 --> 01:10:47,052
Speaker 4: that many people tried to stand up to the CEO

1494
01:10:47,093 --> 01:10:47,972
Speaker 4: Stockton Rush.

1495
01:10:47,853 --> 01:10:50,333
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, I forgotten what what our last call is

1496
01:10:50,372 --> 01:10:56,012
Speaker 2: said described it as institutional God, damn it, institutional grant

1497
01:10:56,053 --> 01:10:59,852
Speaker 2: from the Asia aviation industry. What did he say? Ah?

1498
01:11:00,133 --> 01:11:01,052
Speaker 2: God God.

1499
01:11:01,492 --> 01:11:04,013
Speaker 4: Anyways, the top down decision making that is that is he.

1500
01:11:03,973 --> 01:11:06,733
Speaker 2: Had a word for it was like interstitutional just deficiency

1501
01:11:06,772 --> 01:11:09,173
Speaker 2: or something. Maybe maybe we can get that back. But anyway,

1502
01:11:09,173 --> 01:11:10,173
Speaker 2: you've got a lock. As a lot of people are

1503
01:11:10,173 --> 01:11:13,293
Speaker 2: texting through, you might you might ask some questions about

1504
01:11:13,333 --> 01:11:16,852
Speaker 2: that with the Manawanui because you know the court rulings

1505
01:11:16,853 --> 01:11:19,973
Speaker 2: and the final Court of Inquiry report made public. The

1506
01:11:20,013 --> 01:11:22,492
Speaker 2: court found twelve factors that contributed to the grounding sinking,

1507
01:11:22,772 --> 01:11:25,852
Speaker 2: making it all more more likely to occur, and presenting

1508
01:11:25,853 --> 01:11:28,253
Speaker 2: the Finance Court and Corey present Blah Blah Blah said

1509
01:11:28,732 --> 01:11:31,333
Speaker 2: the court found efficiencies and the training the qualification of

1510
01:11:31,412 --> 01:11:33,852
Speaker 2: key ships personnel involved in the incident risk related to

1511
01:11:33,893 --> 01:11:37,093
Speaker 2: the survey task were not sufficiently identified, discussed and mitigated,

1512
01:11:37,333 --> 01:11:40,133
Speaker 2: and instructions or procedures were lacking. The court also found

1513
01:11:40,173 --> 01:11:43,452
Speaker 2: leadership was inadequate in some area's supervision was not as expected.

1514
01:11:43,572 --> 01:11:46,452
Speaker 2: Levels and time pressure influenced the way the survey task

1515
01:11:46,612 --> 01:11:49,732
Speaker 2: was conducted. You know, he could be describing Ocean Gate there.

1516
01:11:49,893 --> 01:11:52,293
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's pretty much everything that could go wrong went wrong,

1517
01:11:52,412 --> 01:11:54,772
Speaker 4: isn't it? Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the number

1518
01:11:54,812 --> 01:11:55,133
Speaker 4: to call?

1519
01:11:55,572 --> 01:11:56,652
Speaker 2: Mark, Welcome to the show.

1520
01:11:57,732 --> 01:11:59,812
Speaker 21: Good after man, How are you very good?

1521
01:11:59,893 --> 01:12:01,572
Speaker 2: You've watched this documentary?

1522
01:12:01,532 --> 01:12:01,732
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1523
01:12:02,532 --> 01:12:06,253
Speaker 21: Yeah, that was mind boggling, I owning and very disturbing.

1524
01:12:08,572 --> 01:12:12,612
Speaker 21: You how some of these very wealthy, intelligent people. And

1525
01:12:12,612 --> 01:12:15,133
Speaker 21: he wasn't a silly man. He was very intelligent, but

1526
01:12:15,213 --> 01:12:18,732
Speaker 21: he was dangerously intelligent. And the simple factors, like you've

1527
01:12:18,732 --> 01:12:20,852
Speaker 21: already covered the things that I was going to say,

1528
01:12:20,853 --> 01:12:23,373
Speaker 21: but you could sit in there and listen to strings

1529
01:12:23,412 --> 01:12:27,412
Speaker 21: of carbon fire, the breaking and those noises, and it

1530
01:12:27,532 --> 01:12:30,812
Speaker 21: was something. The simple factors was that people still got

1531
01:12:30,853 --> 01:12:33,892
Speaker 21: on there with regardless of the alarm bells ringing, And

1532
01:12:33,893 --> 01:12:37,173
Speaker 21: he just basically blatantly said that he was going to

1533
01:12:37,213 --> 01:12:40,372
Speaker 21: destroy anyone that went against him or or spoke up.

1534
01:12:40,933 --> 01:12:44,293
Speaker 21: And you know, the unclassification, the simple fact that he

1535
01:12:44,333 --> 01:12:48,612
Speaker 21: did it, the armors and even the American Coast Guard,

1536
01:12:48,692 --> 01:12:52,213
Speaker 21: the man that was investigating it was simple factors that

1537
01:12:52,293 --> 01:12:57,693
Speaker 21: any ship that he used he didn't register. So very dangerous.

1538
01:12:58,013 --> 01:12:58,932
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was.

1539
01:12:59,013 --> 01:13:05,532
Speaker 21: It was shocking. But I've also been unemployment and took

1540
01:13:05,572 --> 01:13:10,492
Speaker 21: on took on a CEO. I worked for a well

1541
01:13:10,532 --> 01:13:13,133
Speaker 21: known New Zealand company. I can't name them due to

1542
01:13:13,412 --> 01:13:17,173
Speaker 21: ever reasons, but they happened up a new business and

1543
01:13:18,173 --> 01:13:23,812
Speaker 21: as they do around New Zealand, over employed and within

1544
01:13:23,893 --> 01:13:28,133
Speaker 21: two weeks dumped a lot of people off. And it

1545
01:13:28,173 --> 01:13:30,213
Speaker 21: was just in the mannerism of how they did it,

1546
01:13:30,253 --> 01:13:38,692
Speaker 21: and the CEO did it expectations, false KPIs, standards that

1547
01:13:38,692 --> 01:13:42,133
Speaker 21: he had to meet, and in the end, people were

1548
01:13:42,213 --> 01:13:46,053
Speaker 21: leaving this business and droves, which put me from until

1549
01:13:46,093 --> 01:13:48,492
Speaker 21: what I see to now running the running the store.

1550
01:13:50,452 --> 01:13:52,133
Speaker 21: And I was doing a big weeks. I was doing

1551
01:13:52,173 --> 01:13:54,333
Speaker 21: seventy plus our day. Some days I was working seven

1552
01:13:54,412 --> 01:13:57,692
Speaker 21: days a week because and I'd be on the phone

1553
01:13:57,772 --> 01:14:01,253
Speaker 21: asking you know that the people that were in charge

1554
01:14:01,293 --> 01:14:04,173
Speaker 21: of the CEO, and in the end I wasn't getting

1555
01:14:04,173 --> 01:14:07,852
Speaker 21: anywhere the treatment that I was given the person it

1556
01:14:07,893 --> 01:14:10,052
Speaker 21: was that you can by the franchise of the store

1557
01:14:10,692 --> 01:14:15,693
Speaker 21: ended up leaving. The way workers were treated when managers

1558
01:14:15,812 --> 01:14:19,093
Speaker 21: and even the CEO would come down was appalling, and

1559
01:14:19,133 --> 01:14:22,973
Speaker 21: the way you'd speak about people. In the end, I

1560
01:14:23,053 --> 01:14:25,333
Speaker 21: burent out and that cost me six weeks in hospital

1561
01:14:25,532 --> 01:14:27,412
Speaker 21: due to you know, just health and mental health and

1562
01:14:27,412 --> 01:14:31,652
Speaker 21: stuff like that. I was given a leader of termination

1563
01:14:31,772 --> 01:14:33,732
Speaker 21: after being promised that my job was fine and all

1564
01:14:33,732 --> 01:14:35,933
Speaker 21: that some of the stuff, so I thought, stuff you.

1565
01:14:37,333 --> 01:14:41,212
Speaker 21: So I was lucky enough to Contactable who had already

1566
01:14:41,333 --> 01:14:45,372
Speaker 21: previously had three cases against this company, and he did

1567
01:14:45,412 --> 01:14:47,612
Speaker 21: it for free. And they turned around and said that

1568
01:14:47,652 --> 01:14:49,772
Speaker 21: they're going to destroy me and destroy my life and

1569
01:14:49,772 --> 01:14:55,452
Speaker 21: they've got millions of dollars. Well, let's to say I

1570
01:14:55,532 --> 01:14:58,572
Speaker 21: had the gratification after two years of fighting them. Didn't

1571
01:14:58,612 --> 01:15:02,572
Speaker 21: cost me a single cent, and they got found out

1572
01:15:02,572 --> 01:15:05,652
Speaker 21: big time, and sadly, a lot of people you know,

1573
01:15:06,452 --> 01:15:08,972
Speaker 21: did lose jobs because you know, they they thought we're

1574
01:15:08,973 --> 01:15:12,213
Speaker 21: going to get too fast and stores closed down.

1575
01:15:13,253 --> 01:15:15,452
Speaker 2: Yeah, well good on you, Mark stanning up and fighting

1576
01:15:15,452 --> 01:15:16,293
Speaker 2: the good fight again.

1577
01:15:16,333 --> 01:15:18,093
Speaker 4: That's all of a hard thing Mark did but got

1578
01:15:18,093 --> 01:15:20,133
Speaker 4: on and it's the right thing to do, but very

1579
01:15:20,173 --> 01:15:21,612
Speaker 4: brave and very hard for a lot of people to do.

1580
01:15:21,692 --> 01:15:21,812
Speaker 17: Right.

1581
01:15:21,812 --> 01:15:23,372
Speaker 4: We've got to the words I.

1582
01:15:23,293 --> 01:15:28,533
Speaker 2: Was looking for was organizational Ah right, organizational discrepancies.

1583
01:15:28,572 --> 01:15:30,093
Speaker 4: Grant takes back, so, thank you very much.

1584
01:15:30,532 --> 01:15:32,492
Speaker 2: What Grant was saying was that it was the whole

1585
01:15:32,572 --> 01:15:36,053
Speaker 2: organization led to the disaster the way it was set up.

1586
01:15:36,093 --> 01:15:37,732
Speaker 4: Oh eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the

1587
01:15:37,812 --> 01:15:40,412
Speaker 4: number to call. Plenty of great texts coming through as well.

1588
01:15:40,412 --> 01:15:42,013
Speaker 4: We'll get to a few of those very shortly. It

1589
01:15:42,093 --> 01:15:45,293
Speaker 4: is seven to three, the issues.

1590
01:15:44,933 --> 01:15:47,412
Speaker 1: That affect you, and a bit of fun along the way.

1591
01:15:47,652 --> 01:15:50,692
Speaker 1: Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons news talks.

1592
01:15:50,692 --> 01:15:53,732
Speaker 4: It'd be news talks, but we're going to carry this

1593
01:15:53,772 --> 01:15:56,892
Speaker 4: conversation on. We are talking about, loosely the documentary that

1594
01:15:56,933 --> 01:16:00,772
Speaker 4: has been seen by thousands and thousands of kiwis called Titan,

1595
01:16:00,812 --> 01:16:03,772
Speaker 4: the Ocean Gate Disaster. We've asked the question when did

1596
01:16:03,812 --> 01:16:06,893
Speaker 4: you stand up to a boss or manager? In the documentary,

1597
01:16:06,933 --> 01:16:09,012
Speaker 4: you'll see pretty clearly that a lot of people trying

1598
01:16:09,053 --> 01:16:11,612
Speaker 4: to stand up to the boss Stockton Rush and will

1599
01:16:11,652 --> 01:16:13,333
Speaker 4: either put to one side or silence.

1600
01:16:13,652 --> 01:16:15,173
Speaker 2: You know what I want to think on a supplementary

1601
01:16:15,213 --> 01:16:17,972
Speaker 2: issue being screwed in. You know when you watch the documentary,

1602
01:16:17,973 --> 01:16:20,253
Speaker 2: so you get into this tube and they bolt you in.

1603
01:16:20,333 --> 01:16:25,093
Speaker 2: They don't close the doors and shut it. It's just like, yeah,

1604
01:16:25,093 --> 01:16:27,372
Speaker 2: I mean, if you've got any kinds of claustrophobia at all,

1605
01:16:27,853 --> 01:16:30,652
Speaker 2: that is your worst nightmare before it even implodes. Yeah,

1606
01:16:30,692 --> 01:16:31,372
Speaker 2: exactly right.

1607
01:16:31,372 --> 01:16:33,412
Speaker 4: Oh, eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the

1608
01:16:33,492 --> 01:16:35,812
Speaker 4: number to call, love to hear your thoughts on this one.

1609
01:16:35,853 --> 01:16:37,412
Speaker 4: If you want to send a teach you more than welcome.

1610
01:16:37,492 --> 01:16:40,372
Speaker 4: Nine to ninety two is that number. New Sport and

1611
01:16:40,412 --> 01:16:46,532
Speaker 4: weather on its way. Great to have your company, airs always.

1612
01:16:45,772 --> 01:16:50,012
Speaker 1: Your new homes are instateful and entertaining. Talk It's Matty

1613
01:16:50,293 --> 01:16:53,412
Speaker 1: and Taylor Adams afternoons on News Talk.

1614
01:16:53,532 --> 01:17:00,172
Speaker 4: Sebby, Very good afternoon. Do you welcome back into the program.

1615
01:17:00,173 --> 01:17:02,693
Speaker 4: Great to have your company, and having a great discussion

1616
01:17:02,732 --> 01:17:06,613
Speaker 4: about a documentary that's just been launched on Netflix about

1617
01:17:06,812 --> 01:17:10,652
Speaker 4: the Titan desig so incredibly compelling watch.

1618
01:17:10,973 --> 01:17:12,892
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're asking what are your thoughts on the

1619
01:17:12,893 --> 01:17:18,532
Speaker 2: whole Titan situation and the CEO Stockton rushed and what

1620
01:17:18,532 --> 01:17:22,812
Speaker 2: it means to the wider world of organizational failure term

1621
01:17:22,853 --> 01:17:24,852
Speaker 2: that I've learned today that I think is fantastic, great

1622
01:17:24,893 --> 01:17:28,732
Speaker 2: to him from Grant that rang through and you know,

1623
01:17:29,333 --> 01:17:31,133
Speaker 2: we just want to know how do you deal with

1624
01:17:31,173 --> 01:17:33,772
Speaker 2: the boss who's going in the wrong direction. I mean

1625
01:17:33,893 --> 01:17:35,852
Speaker 2: not just when it's life or death like it was

1626
01:17:35,853 --> 01:17:39,892
Speaker 2: in the situation. But what Stockton Rush did was basically

1627
01:17:39,893 --> 01:17:43,692
Speaker 2: fire anyone that told him that he was wrong and

1628
01:17:43,893 --> 01:17:46,213
Speaker 2: replaced them with people that would say that he was right.

1629
01:17:46,652 --> 01:17:50,253
Speaker 2: And the result was he died as long with along

1630
01:17:50,253 --> 01:17:55,572
Speaker 2: with his passengers, which was a very very very grim situation.

1631
01:17:55,893 --> 01:17:57,973
Speaker 2: Hey this stixer says, Hey, can you please let me

1632
01:17:58,013 --> 01:18:00,253
Speaker 2: know which documentary you're talking about on the radio? At

1633
01:18:00,253 --> 01:18:02,692
Speaker 2: the moment that Adrian, it's this one here.

1634
01:18:03,133 --> 01:18:07,573
Speaker 14: Stockton saw an opportunity to restart tourist visits to Titanic.

1635
01:18:08,452 --> 01:18:10,372
Speaker 14: There was no way of knowing where titled It's going

1636
01:18:10,412 --> 01:18:13,892
Speaker 14: to fail, but it was a mathematical certainty that it

1637
01:18:13,933 --> 01:18:14,532
Speaker 14: would fail.

1638
01:18:16,093 --> 01:18:18,532
Speaker 1: Stockton fully believed in what he was doing that it

1639
01:18:18,532 --> 01:18:19,012
Speaker 1: would work.

1640
01:18:19,253 --> 01:18:23,173
Speaker 2: He wanted to fame. It's a fuel's ego theme. I

1641
01:18:23,213 --> 01:18:24,412
Speaker 2: have no desire to die.

1642
01:18:24,572 --> 01:18:28,732
Speaker 15: I understand this kind of risk that Stockton was a

1643
01:18:28,772 --> 01:18:29,853
Speaker 15: borderline psychopath.

1644
01:18:30,133 --> 01:18:31,972
Speaker 4: How do you manage the person like that who owns

1645
01:18:31,973 --> 01:18:34,253
Speaker 4: the company?

1646
01:18:34,213 --> 01:18:36,012
Speaker 2: Yes, one of the same, the zame Day will ever

1647
01:18:36,093 --> 01:18:39,412
Speaker 2: do nobody spoke up? He would ruin somebody's lives.

1648
01:18:39,452 --> 01:18:42,932
Speaker 10: Stockton said, Bonnie is going to be our next lead pilot.

1649
01:18:43,053 --> 01:18:44,052
Speaker 2: Are you nuts?

1650
01:18:44,173 --> 01:18:45,093
Speaker 10: I'm an accountant.

1651
01:18:46,572 --> 01:18:49,573
Speaker 2: No one's sign under my wife from the period. Yeah,

1652
01:18:49,853 --> 01:18:53,532
Speaker 2: and they did, including yourself. So it's Titaned the Ocean

1653
01:18:53,572 --> 01:18:57,492
Speaker 2: Gate submersible Disaster. It's on Netflix. It's the biggest show

1654
01:18:57,492 --> 01:18:59,732
Speaker 2: in the country right now.

1655
01:19:00,053 --> 01:19:01,852
Speaker 4: And you might have heard a Kiwi accent in there.

1656
01:19:01,893 --> 01:19:03,692
Speaker 4: We spoke about him last hour. But his name is

1657
01:19:03,772 --> 01:19:07,053
Speaker 4: Rob McCallum and he is a very talented individual. We

1658
01:19:07,133 --> 01:19:11,093
Speaker 4: currently he's a company called EOS Expeditions. But this guy

1659
01:19:11,133 --> 01:19:14,892
Speaker 4: has been around Antarctica. He's had a lot of experience

1660
01:19:14,893 --> 01:19:17,452
Speaker 4: with engineering and submercibles. And we've put in a request

1661
01:19:17,452 --> 01:19:19,892
Speaker 4: to chat to Rob, so hopefully we get him on

1662
01:19:19,893 --> 01:19:20,452
Speaker 4: the show this week.

1663
01:19:20,612 --> 01:19:22,692
Speaker 2: Was that in the documentary that you just heard in

1664
01:19:22,732 --> 01:19:25,133
Speaker 2: the trailer there from Bonnie Carl who was the HR

1665
01:19:25,293 --> 01:19:30,213
Speaker 2: finance and finance director And you know, after David Lockridge

1666
01:19:30,532 --> 01:19:32,852
Speaker 2: left because he had seen the problems and he didn't

1667
01:19:32,853 --> 01:19:35,492
Speaker 2: want to pilot the situation before and when you see it,

1668
01:19:35,532 --> 01:19:39,932
Speaker 2: they pilot with a PlayStation four controller. But he said,

1669
01:19:40,133 --> 01:19:44,133
Speaker 2: you know. He then goes stopped and rushed. The CEO goes, well,

1670
01:19:44,133 --> 01:19:46,333
Speaker 2: Bonnie is going to be our next lead pilot. And

1671
01:19:46,372 --> 01:19:51,133
Speaker 2: Bonnie's like, I'm the account I'm the the accountant. But

1672
01:19:51,213 --> 01:19:53,013
Speaker 2: he liked the pr He was like, oh, you know,

1673
01:19:53,333 --> 01:19:55,732
Speaker 2: we've got you know. And the other thing that they did,

1674
01:19:56,253 --> 01:19:58,692
Speaker 2: which was crazy to try and circumvent even though they

1675
01:19:58,732 --> 01:20:01,772
Speaker 2: were circumventing laws all over the place by not getting

1676
01:20:01,812 --> 01:20:05,012
Speaker 2: any certification and not basing themselves in any particular country

1677
01:20:05,093 --> 01:20:07,092
Speaker 2: to be locked at, which has been part of what's

1678
01:20:07,093 --> 01:20:10,492
Speaker 2: been so complicated with them investigation afterwards who actually leads

1679
01:20:10,532 --> 01:20:13,812
Speaker 2: the investigation. But part of the thing that they were

1680
01:20:13,812 --> 01:20:16,173
Speaker 2: doing was saying that the passengers that paid to be

1681
01:20:16,333 --> 01:20:20,333
Speaker 2: on was giving them sort of small jobs like videographers,

1682
01:20:20,372 --> 01:20:22,333
Speaker 2: so they could say they were crewe as opposed to

1683
01:20:22,412 --> 01:20:27,053
Speaker 2: passengers to move them into a different legal sort of positions.

1684
01:20:27,133 --> 01:20:29,612
Speaker 4: Yeah, insane. One hundred and eighty ten eighty is the

1685
01:20:29,692 --> 01:20:31,412
Speaker 4: number to call, though, keen to hear from you if

1686
01:20:31,412 --> 01:20:33,052
Speaker 4: you've stood up to a boss or manager.

1687
01:20:33,612 --> 01:20:34,333
Speaker 2: How did you do it?

1688
01:20:34,333 --> 01:20:35,172
Speaker 4: And what happens?

1689
01:20:36,412 --> 01:20:36,692
Speaker 2: Kira?

1690
01:20:36,933 --> 01:20:37,452
Speaker 4: How are you?

1691
01:20:38,492 --> 01:20:40,093
Speaker 20: Hey, guys, I'm fine, Thanks.

1692
01:20:40,013 --> 01:20:42,452
Speaker 4: Now you're yeah, good to talk to you. So what's

1693
01:20:42,492 --> 01:20:43,293
Speaker 4: your story.

1694
01:20:44,772 --> 01:20:47,252
Speaker 20: So you can tell from my accent, I'm not originally

1695
01:20:47,253 --> 01:20:51,452
Speaker 20: from around these parts. Back in the States. I worked

1696
01:20:51,452 --> 01:20:56,013
Speaker 20: in an industry that is also kind of like maritime

1697
01:20:56,013 --> 01:21:00,852
Speaker 20: and aviation, extremely hazardous. And I was part of the

1698
01:21:00,853 --> 01:21:01,452
Speaker 20: medical team.

1699
01:21:02,013 --> 01:21:07,173
Speaker 2: Fine, do you mind telling what industry that was, Kira, aerospace? Aerospace, Okay?

1700
01:21:08,053 --> 01:21:12,533
Speaker 20: And so my view as being part of the medical

1701
01:21:13,452 --> 01:21:16,452
Speaker 20: team and do a medical system design was that I

1702
01:21:16,572 --> 01:21:21,933
Speaker 20: was supposed to explain how our risk tolerance for missions

1703
01:21:21,973 --> 01:21:26,853
Speaker 20: and crew safety and so on aligned with our actual capabilities.

1704
01:21:27,492 --> 01:21:31,012
Speaker 20: And very early in my tenure it was made clear

1705
01:21:31,093 --> 01:21:35,612
Speaker 20: that a significant proportion of our group, and particularly a

1706
01:21:35,652 --> 01:21:38,652
Speaker 20: lot of the managers, were of the opinion that no, no,

1707
01:21:38,933 --> 01:21:40,532
Speaker 20: we were to provide just what you were saying about

1708
01:21:40,532 --> 01:21:41,372
Speaker 20: the videographers.

1709
01:21:41,572 --> 01:21:42,133
Speaker 22: We were there to.

1710
01:21:42,133 --> 01:21:48,213
Speaker 20: Provide plausible deniability. And you know, for example, if there's

1711
01:21:48,253 --> 01:21:51,412
Speaker 20: a piece of equipment that's supposed to fly and for

1712
01:21:51,492 --> 01:21:55,093
Speaker 20: whatever reason it's broken or whatever, the standard is that

1713
01:21:55,133 --> 01:21:57,253
Speaker 20: you're supposed to file a waiver to say this thing

1714
01:21:57,293 --> 01:21:59,573
Speaker 20: is not going to work in the event of an emergency,

1715
01:21:59,572 --> 01:22:01,933
Speaker 20: and then they come up with a workaround or a

1716
01:22:01,973 --> 01:22:07,133
Speaker 20: way to mitigate or remediate. And I was told very early, no, no,

1717
01:22:07,213 --> 01:22:12,293
Speaker 20: team players don't file waivers, oh, which you know, I

1718
01:22:13,013 --> 01:22:18,293
Speaker 20: was really quite antithetical to my view, and I was

1719
01:22:19,253 --> 01:22:23,132
Speaker 20: supported by my boss to the extent that he could.

1720
01:22:23,293 --> 01:22:27,412
Speaker 20: But a little later on in my tenure there the

1721
01:22:28,213 --> 01:22:31,452
Speaker 20: not just his boss or his bosses, but his boss's

1722
01:22:31,612 --> 01:22:34,972
Speaker 20: boss called me up personally and said, oh, I've got

1723
01:22:34,973 --> 01:22:38,533
Speaker 20: this task for you. I need you to evaluate the situation.

1724
01:22:38,692 --> 01:22:40,812
Speaker 20: And he made it sound as if some of our

1725
01:22:40,853 --> 01:22:44,732
Speaker 20: international partners were going to raise a concern about something,

1726
01:22:45,013 --> 01:22:47,532
Speaker 20: and they made it sound like, oh, you know, they're

1727
01:22:47,532 --> 01:22:50,653
Speaker 20: just trying to be disruptive and they're being overly cautious,

1728
01:22:50,732 --> 01:22:52,932
Speaker 20: and you know, we just need you to give us

1729
01:22:52,933 --> 01:22:55,013
Speaker 20: the data to show that you know, this is not

1730
01:22:55,053 --> 01:22:58,572
Speaker 20: something to worry about. So I did what I was asked,

1731
01:22:58,612 --> 01:23:02,492
Speaker 20: and I researched it, and I confirmed that actually, if anything,

1732
01:23:02,532 --> 01:23:05,133
Speaker 20: these folks are not being overly cautious. They're not being

1733
01:23:05,173 --> 01:23:08,253
Speaker 20: cautious enough. This is a significant issue and they have

1734
01:23:08,412 --> 01:23:12,173
Speaker 20: the right of it, and I submitted my report and

1735
01:23:12,732 --> 01:23:15,572
Speaker 20: I got a call from this guy and he said, Kira,

1736
01:23:16,333 --> 01:23:18,692
Speaker 20: I haven't actually read your report now, but I'm going

1737
01:23:18,692 --> 01:23:20,852
Speaker 20: to tell you what i'd like it to say, and

1738
01:23:20,853 --> 01:23:22,253
Speaker 20: then I want you to tell me what you think

1739
01:23:22,293 --> 01:23:28,572
Speaker 20: it should say real, which was about as close.

1740
01:23:28,732 --> 01:23:33,573
Speaker 2: And I that's an email form. So that's that's documented.

1741
01:23:34,412 --> 01:23:41,892
Speaker 20: There was phone. Yeah, I remember like literally sitting at

1742
01:23:41,933 --> 01:23:44,213
Speaker 20: my desk with my head in my hands on with

1743
01:23:44,213 --> 01:23:45,692
Speaker 20: the phone to my ear because those were in the

1744
01:23:45,772 --> 01:23:48,772
Speaker 20: days of handsets and things. And I remember, you know,

1745
01:23:48,853 --> 01:23:51,973
Speaker 20: literally seeing my career flash before my eyes, and my

1746
01:23:52,173 --> 01:23:55,452
Speaker 20: and my officemate that we shared the room came in,

1747
01:23:55,532 --> 01:23:57,372
Speaker 20: took one look at me and then just crept out

1748
01:23:57,452 --> 01:23:59,572
Speaker 20: like I had just received, you know, a bereavement notice

1749
01:23:59,652 --> 01:24:02,892
Speaker 20: or something. And uh and yeah, and I mean, I

1750
01:24:02,893 --> 01:24:06,492
Speaker 20: I to my credit or my idiocy, I'm not sure

1751
01:24:06,492 --> 01:24:09,053
Speaker 20: which I stood my ground, and I said, well, I

1752
01:24:09,372 --> 01:24:12,052
Speaker 20: understand what you want, sir, but these are the reasons

1753
01:24:12,053 --> 01:24:18,732
Speaker 20: that I don't think that that's appropriate. And you know whether, well,

1754
01:24:19,133 --> 01:24:22,213
Speaker 20: let's just say that there's a reason that I'm now

1755
01:24:22,213 --> 01:24:23,132
Speaker 20: here in New Zealands.

1756
01:24:24,372 --> 01:24:27,372
Speaker 2: So was because you couldn't get work there, it was

1757
01:24:27,412 --> 01:24:28,892
Speaker 2: because you were being threatened.

1758
01:24:31,933 --> 01:24:35,532
Speaker 20: It was made clear to me that, I mean, my

1759
01:24:35,812 --> 01:24:37,133
Speaker 20: part of the reason I could do what I did

1760
01:24:37,173 --> 01:24:41,653
Speaker 20: was because my boss was even more of a catalyst

1761
01:24:41,652 --> 01:24:43,372
Speaker 20: for change than I was, and he was a lot

1762
01:24:43,452 --> 01:24:47,572
Speaker 20: less polite about saying it. And so at a certain point,

1763
01:24:48,253 --> 01:24:51,213
Speaker 20: the entire branch of us that we're obviously seeing as

1764
01:24:51,253 --> 01:24:55,013
Speaker 20: troublemakers because we we kept trying to align ourselves with

1765
01:24:55,053 --> 01:25:00,013
Speaker 20: the Safety Directorate and point out things that where we

1766
01:25:00,053 --> 01:25:03,052
Speaker 20: felt that, you know, we were like, look, we're perfectly

1767
01:25:03,093 --> 01:25:06,452
Speaker 20: happy if you want our medical system to be you know,

1768
01:25:06,492 --> 01:25:10,173
Speaker 20: a rosary in a box and so morphing to you know,

1769
01:25:10,532 --> 01:25:13,492
Speaker 20: euthanize the person, that's fine. We just want everybody to

1770
01:25:13,492 --> 01:25:14,652
Speaker 20: be on the same page about it.

1771
01:25:15,372 --> 01:25:17,572
Speaker 4: Kierra, We're loving to have a chat with you, but

1772
01:25:17,612 --> 01:25:20,372
Speaker 4: we've just got to place some messages. So if you're okay,

1773
01:25:20,572 --> 01:25:22,092
Speaker 4: can you just hold there for a couple of minutes

1774
01:25:22,093 --> 01:25:23,852
Speaker 4: and we'll come back come back to you with some

1775
01:25:23,893 --> 01:25:26,772
Speaker 4: more questions. Perfect, thank you, Just hold there. It is

1776
01:25:26,853 --> 01:25:31,492
Speaker 4: quarterbas three News talk ed been just when we went

1777
01:25:31,532 --> 01:25:33,772
Speaker 4: to the break. We're having a very interesting discussion with

1778
01:25:33,893 --> 01:25:37,012
Speaker 4: Kira and she's done us the great service of hanging

1779
01:25:37,053 --> 01:25:39,852
Speaker 4: over those messages and she's back with us. Kiera, thank

1780
01:25:39,893 --> 01:25:43,892
Speaker 4: you very much for hanging through that. So, just picking

1781
01:25:43,973 --> 01:25:45,933
Speaker 4: up where we left off, you were working for an

1782
01:25:46,013 --> 01:25:50,293
Speaker 4: unnamed aero space agency in the US and there was

1783
01:25:50,333 --> 01:25:52,652
Speaker 4: a report that you were asked to deliver to your bosses,

1784
01:25:52,732 --> 01:25:54,732
Speaker 4: and your boss came back and said, I would like

1785
01:25:54,772 --> 01:25:56,372
Speaker 4: you to change that report.

1786
01:25:56,732 --> 01:25:59,532
Speaker 20: Yeah, pretty much, pretty much, And to be fair, it

1787
01:25:59,572 --> 01:26:01,492
Speaker 20: was it was not my boss, it was my boss's

1788
01:26:01,532 --> 01:26:05,412
Speaker 20: boss's boss, which puts the pressure even higher. And yeah,

1789
01:26:05,452 --> 01:26:10,772
Speaker 20: and you know, for a a report of this nature,

1790
01:26:10,893 --> 01:26:14,772
Speaker 20: which is intended to address a safety concern. I mean again,

1791
01:26:14,772 --> 01:26:16,853
Speaker 20: I think it's just like you were saying about the documentary.

1792
01:26:18,492 --> 01:26:21,093
Speaker 20: You know, when you have a culture like you guys

1793
01:26:21,093 --> 01:26:24,732
Speaker 20: were talking about before, that, you know, makes it clear

1794
01:26:24,812 --> 01:26:27,013
Speaker 20: that you're expected to say what the boss wants to hear,

1795
01:26:27,053 --> 01:26:31,492
Speaker 20: as opposed to what your expertise might like dictate, or

1796
01:26:31,973 --> 01:26:37,652
Speaker 20: what your own personal opinion informed opinion might be. You know,

1797
01:26:37,692 --> 01:26:39,933
Speaker 20: it is indeed a recipe for disaster.

1798
01:26:39,853 --> 01:26:43,173
Speaker 2: And realizational failure. Hey, so with your situation, was it

1799
01:26:43,213 --> 01:26:46,213
Speaker 2: life a life and death? Would you say it was

1800
01:26:46,213 --> 01:26:49,012
Speaker 2: a life and death situation? With these waivers.

1801
01:26:49,973 --> 01:26:54,293
Speaker 20: Well, I think what I can say is that, you know,

1802
01:26:54,333 --> 01:26:57,852
Speaker 20: I was in medicine and medical systems design, so I

1803
01:26:57,893 --> 01:27:01,372
Speaker 20: was not you know, well, yeah, I mean, I'm I'm

1804
01:27:01,652 --> 01:27:03,892
Speaker 20: dealing with crue safety. I mean, and again we have

1805
01:27:03,933 --> 01:27:07,213
Speaker 20: a safety director at the agency that is responsible for

1806
01:27:07,253 --> 01:27:10,612
Speaker 20: that as well. But of course it's it's an engineering group, right.

1807
01:27:10,732 --> 01:27:14,852
Speaker 20: The most of the decision makers in the agency have

1808
01:27:14,893 --> 01:27:18,253
Speaker 20: an engineering background, and you know, many of them might

1809
01:27:18,253 --> 01:27:21,492
Speaker 20: have had their last biology class when they were in like,

1810
01:27:21,532 --> 01:27:24,452
Speaker 20: you know, seventh grade or something, and they it's a

1811
01:27:24,572 --> 01:27:27,013
Speaker 20: very different mindset. You know. Engineers are like, if this

1812
01:27:27,053 --> 01:27:28,933
Speaker 20: power bus sales, I can tell you exactly what's going

1813
01:27:29,013 --> 01:27:31,372
Speaker 20: to happen. Why can't you tell me if this guy

1814
01:27:31,372 --> 01:27:34,852
Speaker 20: has appendicite, it's exactly what resources he might need. I said, Well,

1815
01:27:34,853 --> 01:27:37,812
Speaker 20: it depends the appendix burst, does he have any ongoing

1816
01:27:37,893 --> 01:27:40,812
Speaker 20: chronic illnesses? You know, get what else?

1817
01:27:40,933 --> 01:27:41,333
Speaker 16: Did it get?

1818
01:27:41,372 --> 01:27:45,253
Speaker 20: Does get infected? Does he develop an abcess? And you know,

1819
01:27:45,293 --> 01:27:50,213
Speaker 20: for engineers, that's often a very foreign kind of method

1820
01:27:50,213 --> 01:27:53,852
Speaker 20: of thinking for them, and so that's why theoretically they

1821
01:27:53,853 --> 01:27:58,052
Speaker 20: had us around. But as I say, even within our group,

1822
01:27:58,692 --> 01:28:00,692
Speaker 20: not my specific group of medical system design but the

1823
01:28:00,772 --> 01:28:05,452
Speaker 20: larger group there was very much this decision made at

1824
01:28:05,452 --> 01:28:07,892
Speaker 20: a high level that you know, we were almost there

1825
01:28:07,893 --> 01:28:12,213
Speaker 20: to provide plausible deniability rather than try to explain to

1826
01:28:12,652 --> 01:28:15,772
Speaker 20: people who didn't understand our context what that was like.

1827
01:28:15,973 --> 01:28:19,213
Speaker 4: Wow, were you and you mentioned they're isolated from those

1828
01:28:19,253 --> 01:28:21,692
Speaker 4: other groups, but within your own group, the medical group,

1829
01:28:22,173 --> 01:28:24,972
Speaker 4: were you alone at having to make the decision whether

1830
01:28:25,053 --> 01:28:27,892
Speaker 4: to take a stand on this was that, you know,

1831
01:28:28,013 --> 01:28:31,612
Speaker 4: difficult for you without potentially any support around you.

1832
01:28:33,013 --> 01:28:36,692
Speaker 20: I was very fortunate in that my direct boss and

1833
01:28:36,772 --> 01:28:41,253
Speaker 20: his boss were part of a kind of different generation

1834
01:28:41,452 --> 01:28:44,293
Speaker 20: from a lot of the others they had been around

1835
01:28:44,692 --> 01:28:48,212
Speaker 20: during Apollo, and they had a kind of different culture

1836
01:28:48,372 --> 01:28:51,973
Speaker 20: and mindset compared to the folks who were mostly of

1837
01:28:52,013 --> 01:28:58,253
Speaker 20: a Shuttle era vintage, and so I felt generally very

1838
01:28:58,572 --> 01:29:02,813
Speaker 20: I felt very well supported by my direct boss, relatively

1839
01:29:03,093 --> 01:29:08,333
Speaker 20: supported by his boss. But his boss was also wrangling

1840
01:29:08,372 --> 01:29:10,532
Speaker 20: these other groups who had a very very different take,

1841
01:29:10,612 --> 01:29:12,572
Speaker 20: as I say, on what the what the corporate culture

1842
01:29:12,612 --> 01:29:16,772
Speaker 20: was supposed to be, and that made it extremely challenging

1843
01:29:16,812 --> 01:29:20,972
Speaker 20: at times, and it made different parts of the same

1844
01:29:21,133 --> 01:29:24,492
Speaker 20: group kind of you know, having these internes scene battles

1845
01:29:25,093 --> 01:29:27,652
Speaker 20: and then it was made even more complicated because, of course,

1846
01:29:28,213 --> 01:29:33,253
Speaker 20: thanks to Lyndon Johnson, the agency is very geographically.

1847
01:29:34,213 --> 01:29:35,572
Speaker 2: NASA are we talking about here.

1848
01:29:35,692 --> 01:29:40,692
Speaker 20: I can neither confirm nor deny, but let's just say

1849
01:29:40,732 --> 01:29:45,732
Speaker 20: that as a result, there's a headquarters which is based

1850
01:29:45,853 --> 01:29:49,092
Speaker 20: in one part of the world, one part of the country,

1851
01:29:49,213 --> 01:29:51,812
Speaker 20: and an astronaut base which is set in a different

1852
01:29:51,853 --> 01:29:55,452
Speaker 20: part and whatever mas to show on papers who's in

1853
01:29:55,532 --> 01:29:58,692
Speaker 20: charge of whom. There's a pretty far distance between the two,

1854
01:29:58,772 --> 01:30:02,452
Speaker 20: and so it was it was very, very difficult to

1855
01:30:02,492 --> 01:30:03,132
Speaker 20: put it mildly.

1856
01:30:03,293 --> 01:30:05,412
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, thank you so much for sharing. Now

1857
01:30:05,572 --> 01:30:08,333
Speaker 2: interesting though you say that. So let's just say, let's

1858
01:30:08,372 --> 01:30:11,692
Speaker 2: talk about NASA as an example of an organization, so

1859
01:30:11,772 --> 01:30:14,452
Speaker 2: with the whole as just an example, just just picking

1860
01:30:14,492 --> 01:30:17,732
Speaker 2: plucking that out of the era, so you know, to

1861
01:30:18,173 --> 01:30:20,852
Speaker 2: get to the Moon, a lot of risks were taken

1862
01:30:20,933 --> 01:30:23,732
Speaker 2: and because they pulled it off. I mean, although Apollo one,

1863
01:30:24,293 --> 01:30:27,933
Speaker 2: three lives were lost in that situation, terrible situation in

1864
01:30:28,013 --> 01:30:32,333
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven, I believe. So there were huge risks

1865
01:30:32,372 --> 01:30:35,173
Speaker 2: that needed to be taken or no, I'm not saying needed.

1866
01:30:35,492 --> 01:30:36,813
Speaker 2: Huge risks were taken.

1867
01:30:36,652 --> 01:30:39,293
Speaker 20: And because agreed to be taken, agreed to.

1868
01:30:39,213 --> 01:30:42,213
Speaker 2: Be taken, and because they pulled it off and they

1869
01:30:42,213 --> 01:30:45,853
Speaker 2: went to the Moon, it was considered heroic and amazing.

1870
01:30:45,893 --> 01:30:47,852
Speaker 2: But equally, things are on a knife edge and it

1871
01:30:47,853 --> 01:30:49,612
Speaker 2: could have gone the other way. And then you get

1872
01:30:49,612 --> 01:30:53,973
Speaker 2: to the Challenger situation with the shuttle, and a lot

1873
01:30:54,013 --> 01:30:55,972
Speaker 2: of people are saying, look, these tiles aren't going to work.

1874
01:30:56,013 --> 01:30:59,093
Speaker 2: They don't work at this temperature freezing. You've got to stop.

1875
01:30:59,093 --> 01:31:01,133
Speaker 2: You got to stop. But the attitude and NASA at

1876
01:31:01,133 --> 01:31:03,452
Speaker 2: that point was we made it to the Moon and

1877
01:31:03,772 --> 01:31:06,612
Speaker 2: we pushed the limits here, and we can do this

1878
01:31:06,652 --> 01:31:09,173
Speaker 2: with the with the shut up. So you just see

1879
01:31:09,213 --> 01:31:11,452
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. No, there was one of the greatest things.

1880
01:31:11,572 --> 01:31:13,532
Speaker 20: I would disagree a little bit. I would disagree a

1881
01:31:13,532 --> 01:31:16,692
Speaker 20: little bit because you're quite right, there was Challenger and

1882
01:31:16,732 --> 01:31:19,493
Speaker 20: subsequently Colombia. And one of the things that really frustrated

1883
01:31:19,532 --> 01:31:21,532
Speaker 20: me was I saw that the reason the Columbia that

1884
01:31:21,612 --> 01:31:24,892
Speaker 20: we lost Columbia and I lost friends on Columbia was

1885
01:31:25,253 --> 01:31:29,732
Speaker 20: the same reason we lost Challenger a generation earlier. And

1886
01:31:29,772 --> 01:31:33,412
Speaker 20: the issue there, which was disparate from the issues with

1887
01:31:33,492 --> 01:31:39,053
Speaker 20: Apollo one and Apollo thirteen, was that Apollo was at

1888
01:31:39,093 --> 01:31:41,412
Speaker 20: the time of the Vietnam era. It was at the

1889
01:31:41,452 --> 01:31:45,572
Speaker 20: time when it was seen as a military imperative to

1890
01:31:45,692 --> 01:31:49,852
Speaker 20: get to the Moon before the Soviets, and there was

1891
01:31:49,893 --> 01:31:54,253
Speaker 20: already you know, young men, boys really were dying on

1892
01:31:54,293 --> 01:31:57,812
Speaker 20: the evening news in the footage from Vietnam. So the

1893
01:31:57,933 --> 01:32:01,213
Speaker 20: level of risk, the tolerance for risk in the late

1894
01:32:01,293 --> 01:32:04,933
Speaker 20: sixties around this was completely different. And this is the

1895
01:32:04,933 --> 01:32:08,612
Speaker 20: point I think you're getting at from the Shuttle in

1896
01:32:08,893 --> 01:32:14,573
Speaker 20: a six moth Challenger or a generation later with Columbia,

1897
01:32:14,893 --> 01:32:17,812
Speaker 20: because then it was we don't want to have any risk,

1898
01:32:18,253 --> 01:32:19,692
Speaker 20: you know. And this is the point that I kept

1899
01:32:19,692 --> 01:32:22,812
Speaker 20: trying to raise to my colleagues, which was, if we

1900
01:32:22,973 --> 01:32:27,372
Speaker 20: had somebody, for example, on the shuttle who eats a

1901
01:32:27,412 --> 01:32:31,093
Speaker 20: peanut and develops an anaphylactic reaction or gets chest pain

1902
01:32:31,492 --> 01:32:33,933
Speaker 20: and suffer as a minor heart attack. Is at that

1903
01:32:34,013 --> 01:32:36,852
Speaker 20: time the average age of the American Astronaut Corp. Was

1904
01:32:36,933 --> 01:32:41,372
Speaker 20: forty six, it's going to be a disaster because on

1905
01:32:41,492 --> 01:32:43,452
Speaker 20: CNN they're going to be like, well, you know, my

1906
01:32:43,532 --> 01:32:45,612
Speaker 20: little Susie got bitten by a bee and she is

1907
01:32:45,692 --> 01:32:47,973
Speaker 20: just fine. What do you mean this guy died? Or

1908
01:32:48,093 --> 01:32:50,572
Speaker 20: you know, grandpa had a heart attack and he's doing fine.

1909
01:32:51,093 --> 01:32:53,973
Speaker 20: Why would why would you know, the space program not

1910
01:32:54,093 --> 01:32:56,812
Speaker 20: have the equipment they needed. And that was what we

1911
01:32:56,812 --> 01:33:01,372
Speaker 20: were trying to express to the powers that be around

1912
01:33:01,372 --> 01:33:04,972
Speaker 20: the medical system that we had at the time on

1913
01:33:05,293 --> 01:33:10,692
Speaker 20: the various aircraft, on the spacecraft, Shuttle, and station. And

1914
01:33:11,812 --> 01:33:13,972
Speaker 20: you know, because I think that what it comes down

1915
01:33:14,013 --> 01:33:15,652
Speaker 20: to is just what you say, what's going to pass

1916
01:33:15,652 --> 01:33:18,213
Speaker 20: the CNN test and the CNN test if such a

1917
01:33:18,213 --> 01:33:22,812
Speaker 20: thing had had existed in nineteen sixty nine when Armstrong

1918
01:33:22,853 --> 01:33:26,212
Speaker 20: and Aldron and Collins were going up and the CNN

1919
01:33:26,572 --> 01:33:30,452
Speaker 20: you know test and the risk tolerance that was acceptable

1920
01:33:30,893 --> 01:33:34,372
Speaker 20: in the eighties and nineties and two thousands were absolutely

1921
01:33:34,572 --> 01:33:39,852
Speaker 20: leagues apart. And again, my problem was never that you

1922
01:33:39,933 --> 01:33:42,772
Speaker 20: have to have this very expensive medical system or this

1923
01:33:42,893 --> 01:33:47,053
Speaker 20: very elaborate whatever. I just wanted everybody, including the astronauts,

1924
01:33:47,652 --> 01:33:50,053
Speaker 20: to be on the same page. I mean, I think that,

1925
01:33:50,133 --> 01:33:53,652
Speaker 20: you know, going back to this terrible tragedy with the

1926
01:33:53,652 --> 01:33:57,293
Speaker 20: submersible and half a family being lost in one one

1927
01:33:57,333 --> 01:34:02,013
Speaker 20: fell swoop, if they had said to the family this

1928
01:34:02,572 --> 01:34:06,252
Speaker 20: father and son, hey listen, this is the risk you're taking,

1929
01:34:07,173 --> 01:34:09,213
Speaker 20: but you want to take it, well, well, we'll take

1930
01:34:09,253 --> 01:34:11,133
Speaker 20: your money. You know, I don't think they would have

1931
01:34:11,173 --> 01:34:14,813
Speaker 20: gone along with this, but they never even got that opportunity.

1932
01:34:14,933 --> 01:34:17,772
Speaker 20: And that's what I think is so is so.

1933
01:34:17,812 --> 01:34:20,372
Speaker 2: Wrong and and interesting though, And you know, through to

1934
01:34:20,412 --> 01:34:23,013
Speaker 2: your point with Krista was it Krista Mchaelis I can't

1935
01:34:23,053 --> 01:34:26,932
Speaker 2: remember her name? The teacher, Yes, teacher. So as soon

1936
01:34:26,973 --> 01:34:30,372
Speaker 2: as you're putting like a civilian on on the absolutely

1937
01:34:30,893 --> 01:34:32,692
Speaker 2: as they did in the challenge, because that was trying

1938
01:34:32,692 --> 01:34:34,572
Speaker 2: to prove the point, and the challenge was just routine

1939
01:34:34,572 --> 01:34:38,692
Speaker 2: to go to, so safe it's safe, yeah, and that

1940
01:34:38,812 --> 01:34:41,253
Speaker 2: was neither the case. It was still just a crazy

1941
01:34:41,293 --> 01:34:43,452
Speaker 2: thing to be doing. And so as soon as you

1942
01:34:43,452 --> 01:34:45,933
Speaker 2: put a teacher on there, that the risk profile is

1943
01:34:45,973 --> 01:34:49,492
Speaker 2: totally totally different from you know, it's fired a you know,

1944
01:34:49,812 --> 01:34:52,172
Speaker 2: test pilots and military personnel.

1945
01:34:52,612 --> 01:34:54,612
Speaker 20: And I can say we need a public affairs office

1946
01:34:54,933 --> 01:34:58,333
Speaker 20: to rebrand it, to stop going for the oh, this

1947
01:34:58,452 --> 01:35:00,612
Speaker 20: is so safe we should be doing it, and make

1948
01:35:00,692 --> 01:35:03,452
Speaker 20: it a oh this is really dangerous, but it's worth it.

1949
01:35:04,093 --> 01:35:06,053
Speaker 20: And that the problem was that that message was really

1950
01:35:06,053 --> 01:35:07,812
Speaker 20: hard to do and all we were doing was going

1951
01:35:07,893 --> 01:35:09,612
Speaker 20: up and coming down and going up and coming down

1952
01:35:09,772 --> 01:35:15,452
Speaker 20: in the exploration and the you know, colonization and the

1953
01:35:15,572 --> 01:35:18,572
Speaker 20: utilization of extraterrestrial resources was no longer on the on

1954
01:35:18,973 --> 01:35:20,612
Speaker 20: the in the book in the works.

1955
01:35:20,772 --> 01:35:22,372
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thanks so much. I could talk to you

1956
01:35:22,412 --> 01:35:25,173
Speaker 2: forever about this. That's one of my favorite topics. But

1957
01:35:25,572 --> 01:35:28,412
Speaker 2: of getting pressure from all angles to go to sands.

1958
01:35:28,093 --> 01:35:30,173
Speaker 4: Well, I'm going to say, their loss, whoever it is,

1959
01:35:30,173 --> 01:35:32,933
Speaker 4: is our gain. Well, you know, it's fantasticating here in

1960
01:35:32,933 --> 01:35:35,333
Speaker 4: New Zealand. It is twenty eight to three.

1961
01:35:35,372 --> 01:35:43,173
Speaker 1: Bag very shortly, Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons call oh

1962
01:35:43,213 --> 01:35:46,532
Speaker 1: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty on News Talk ZV afternoon.

1963
01:35:46,532 --> 01:35:50,252
Speaker 4: It is twenty nine to four, and we're.

1964
01:35:50,053 --> 01:35:55,013
Speaker 2: Talking about the ocean Gate documentary the titan you know,

1965
01:35:55,213 --> 01:35:58,732
Speaker 2: the horrible situation with the submersible that was being sent

1966
01:35:58,772 --> 01:36:02,013
Speaker 2: down to the Titanic that imploded, killing five people in

1967
01:36:02,013 --> 01:36:05,133
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. There's documentary on Netflix about it right now,

1968
01:36:05,333 --> 01:36:07,692
Speaker 2: and it sort of raised this interesting question. Talking to

1969
01:36:07,933 --> 01:36:10,293
Speaker 2: care of a for as well about risk and doing

1970
01:36:10,333 --> 01:36:12,333
Speaker 2: great things. This text here says, I think people should

1971
01:36:12,372 --> 01:36:14,652
Speaker 2: be allowed to take risks and do brave things against

1972
01:36:14,692 --> 01:36:17,732
Speaker 2: popular opinions and safety experts. Sure they will be wrong

1973
01:36:17,772 --> 01:36:20,213
Speaker 2: sometimes like in this case, but this is where all

1974
01:36:20,253 --> 01:36:23,293
Speaker 2: great discoveries come from. As long as everyone involved knows

1975
01:36:23,333 --> 01:36:27,612
Speaker 2: the risks and they prepay for rescue, then go for it. Jeremy, Yeah,

1976
01:36:27,652 --> 01:36:31,812
Speaker 2: I mean absolutely, And that's definitely the case in you know,

1977
01:36:31,933 --> 01:36:35,572
Speaker 2: the Apollo missions, when you had astronauts, there had been

1978
01:36:36,093 --> 01:36:40,612
Speaker 2: test pilots that knew knew the risks, and in a

1979
01:36:40,612 --> 01:36:43,612
Speaker 2: lot of ways they were military personnel. They're right trying

1980
01:36:43,652 --> 01:36:46,093
Speaker 2: to get to the moon. But when you're selling tickets

1981
01:36:46,412 --> 01:36:50,053
Speaker 2: as they were in this in the Titan submersible, two

1982
01:36:50,133 --> 01:36:53,012
Speaker 2: people that didn't know the risks, you know, a billionaire

1983
01:36:53,013 --> 01:36:56,293
Speaker 2: is not going to take his son. The Pakistani billionaire

1984
01:36:56,333 --> 01:36:58,293
Speaker 2: that took his son along, he's not going to take

1985
01:36:58,293 --> 01:37:00,812
Speaker 2: a son along if he knew the risks. And that's

1986
01:37:00,853 --> 01:37:04,093
Speaker 2: where the problem was. You were bringing civilians into the situation.

1987
01:37:04,213 --> 01:37:05,892
Speaker 2: You weren't people that were all on the same page

1988
01:37:05,893 --> 01:37:07,932
Speaker 2: of let's try and do something amazing for the good

1989
01:37:07,933 --> 01:37:11,333
Speaker 2: of humans. You were bringing people in that thought they

1990
01:37:11,372 --> 01:37:15,572
Speaker 2: were going on an amusement park ride. Yeah, it's very

1991
01:37:15,572 --> 01:37:17,093
Speaker 2: different in this case, I'd say it, but I would

1992
01:37:17,133 --> 01:37:19,772
Speaker 2: agree with you that we have to take risks to

1993
01:37:19,853 --> 01:37:23,012
Speaker 2: do amazing things. And you know we lost people trying

1994
01:37:23,013 --> 01:37:24,133
Speaker 2: to go to the moon. When when I say we,

1995
01:37:24,452 --> 01:37:27,012
Speaker 2: NASA did, America did. But you've got to say it's

1996
01:37:27,053 --> 01:37:29,373
Speaker 2: one of the greatest things that the humans have ever accomplished.

1997
01:37:29,412 --> 01:37:31,253
Speaker 4: Yeah, and again, if it was just stocked and rush

1998
01:37:31,412 --> 01:37:34,092
Speaker 4: in that submersible rather than those other people, his legacy

1999
01:37:34,093 --> 01:37:35,972
Speaker 4: would be very different. He would be a maverick doing

2000
01:37:36,013 --> 01:37:38,852
Speaker 4: great things rather than a mad dog loose unit who

2001
01:37:38,853 --> 01:37:40,333
Speaker 4: didn't listen to anyone around him.

2002
01:37:40,532 --> 01:37:42,412
Speaker 2: Matt, you need to get that caller on for an

2003
01:37:42,492 --> 01:37:45,492
Speaker 2: hour fantastic chat while I could listen to Cara all

2004
01:37:45,572 --> 01:37:47,932
Speaker 2: day while your current caller is amazing. Yeah, I could

2005
01:37:47,933 --> 01:37:50,053
Speaker 2: have just kept talking to her, but bloody ads.

2006
01:37:49,732 --> 01:37:52,173
Speaker 4: Bloody and we are going to try and get her

2007
01:37:52,213 --> 01:37:54,293
Speaker 4: back because she was a fascinating person to chat too.

2008
01:37:54,333 --> 01:37:56,093
Speaker 4: But right now itays twenty seven or four.

2009
01:37:56,253 --> 01:37:58,932
Speaker 2: We love the ads. They pay our way the mortgage.

2010
01:37:59,452 --> 01:38:01,172
Speaker 2: Take that about it. I'll take that back.

2011
01:38:04,133 --> 01:38:07,692
Speaker 10: Us talk said the headlines with Blue Bubble taxis it's

2012
01:38:07,732 --> 01:38:11,012
Speaker 10: no trouble with a blue bubble. An activist group says

2013
01:38:11,053 --> 01:38:14,692
Speaker 10: the deaths of three greyhounds in three days shows the

2014
01:38:14,692 --> 01:38:18,692
Speaker 10: practice needs to end now, save as urgent Greyhound racing

2015
01:38:18,732 --> 01:38:22,933
Speaker 10: New Zealand to accept the government's gradual ban. The suspect

2016
01:38:23,093 --> 01:38:26,293
Speaker 10: in the shootings of two Democratic lawmakers and their sparses

2017
01:38:26,372 --> 01:38:30,012
Speaker 10: in the US has been arrested. Fifty seven year old

2018
01:38:30,213 --> 01:38:33,652
Speaker 10: Vance Bolter is suspected to have fatally shot Democrat Melissa

2019
01:38:33,652 --> 01:38:36,572
Speaker 10: Hortman and her husband in their home, as well as

2020
01:38:36,652 --> 01:38:40,372
Speaker 10: injuring two others. The trio on board a boat that

2021
01:38:40,452 --> 01:38:43,852
Speaker 10: capsized off the coast of Sar Taranaki a thought to

2022
01:38:43,933 --> 01:38:47,253
Speaker 10: have all been wearing life jackets. Two people died after

2023
01:38:47,293 --> 01:38:50,492
Speaker 10: the boat got into trouble about ten am yesterday, about

2024
01:38:50,492 --> 01:38:53,572
Speaker 10: two hundred meters off Parterre. One is believed to be

2025
01:38:53,612 --> 01:38:58,252
Speaker 10: a child. Fundraising efforts have already raised about eight thousand

2026
01:38:58,293 --> 01:39:01,812
Speaker 10: dollars for those affected by the Littleton landslide last week

2027
01:39:02,093 --> 01:39:06,213
Speaker 10: and the fire the following day. Oil prices saw and

2028
01:39:06,333 --> 01:39:10,053
Speaker 10: local shares fall on fares of sas escalating Middle East conflict.

2029
01:39:10,492 --> 01:39:15,012
Speaker 10: You can see more at ZID Herald Premium and back

2030
01:39:15,053 --> 01:39:16,893
Speaker 10: to Matt Eath and Tyler Adams.

2031
01:39:16,973 --> 01:39:19,333
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Rayleen, and we are talking about

2032
01:39:19,333 --> 01:39:24,053
Speaker 4: the documentary Titan the Ocean Gate disaster, and we all

2033
01:39:24,133 --> 01:39:27,452
Speaker 4: remember that particular news story it was or anything was

2034
01:39:27,452 --> 01:39:30,572
Speaker 4: talking about in twenty twenty three when it imploded trying

2035
01:39:30,612 --> 01:39:34,773
Speaker 4: to take its CEO, Stockton Rush and tourists down to

2036
01:39:34,812 --> 01:39:39,333
Speaker 4: see the Titanic. And now the documentary that's just been

2037
01:39:39,372 --> 01:39:41,732
Speaker 4: released is rocketed up to number one by a country

2038
01:39:41,732 --> 01:39:42,492
Speaker 4: mile on Netflix.

2039
01:39:42,572 --> 01:39:44,213
Speaker 2: It's the number one what show in the country at

2040
01:39:44,213 --> 01:39:47,372
Speaker 2: the moment. It's a very very interesting documentary. But the

2041
01:39:47,412 --> 01:39:49,973
Speaker 2: bit that really really got me, I'd like to hear

2042
01:39:49,973 --> 01:39:54,213
Speaker 2: people's thoughts on this and their fears and any one

2043
01:39:54,333 --> 01:39:57,772
Speaker 2: with claustrophobia. But when they so, you've basically got a

2044
01:39:57,772 --> 01:40:02,692
Speaker 2: tube and maybe at a carbon fiber not strong enough.

2045
01:40:02,692 --> 01:40:06,173
Speaker 2: Obviously has proven yep, as it imploded. And then it's

2046
01:40:06,213 --> 01:40:08,253
Speaker 2: not a door that's been closed as are saying before,

2047
01:40:08,612 --> 01:40:10,452
Speaker 2: not like in a plane where you go a lever

2048
01:40:10,933 --> 01:40:13,812
Speaker 2: or even a even like a hatch in a normal

2049
01:40:13,853 --> 01:40:16,692
Speaker 2: submarine where you get and you close it and you

2050
01:40:16,812 --> 01:40:19,772
Speaker 2: turn that wheel to close it. They bolted it in

2051
01:40:20,452 --> 01:40:22,412
Speaker 2: and at one point when they're bolting it in and

2052
01:40:22,412 --> 01:40:24,612
Speaker 2: one of the experiments, the woman that's bolted the men

2053
01:40:24,692 --> 01:40:27,652
Speaker 2: drops one of the bolts and goes, oh no, don't worry,

2054
01:40:27,692 --> 01:40:30,013
Speaker 2: We've got plenty of those. I just want to know

2055
01:40:30,053 --> 01:40:32,053
Speaker 2: if who would be willing to go down in that,

2056
01:40:32,452 --> 01:40:36,012
Speaker 2: you'd have to be you'd have to be running zero claustrophobia. Yeah,

2057
01:40:36,053 --> 01:40:38,452
Speaker 2: I mean, there's some people that are very claustrophobic, can't

2058
01:40:38,452 --> 01:40:41,972
Speaker 2: even go in elevators, and there's those people that are

2059
01:40:42,213 --> 01:40:46,052
Speaker 2: mildly claustrophobic, which are most of us. But boy, boy,

2060
01:40:46,133 --> 01:40:48,812
Speaker 2: to be bolted into that tiny little tube with some

2061
01:40:49,093 --> 01:40:53,452
Speaker 2: absolute nutcase of a billionaire called Stockton controlling the thing

2062
01:40:53,492 --> 01:40:57,253
Speaker 2: with a PlayStation controller, boy boy, boy, oh boy. And

2063
01:40:57,293 --> 01:40:59,893
Speaker 2: I feel for that nineteen year old boy because apparently,

2064
01:41:00,213 --> 01:41:02,093
Speaker 2: you know, this hasn't been one hundred scent confirmed, I

2065
01:41:02,133 --> 01:41:04,093
Speaker 2: don't think, but he was terrified. I didn't even want

2066
01:41:04,133 --> 01:41:06,213
Speaker 2: to go in it. One of the people that died.

2067
01:41:07,053 --> 01:41:09,372
Speaker 2: He didn't want to be on there. Yeah, Well, his

2068
01:41:09,532 --> 01:41:11,093
Speaker 2: dad was making him. His dad thought he was giving

2069
01:41:11,133 --> 01:41:13,652
Speaker 2: Hi an amazing experience to his nineteen year old son.

2070
01:41:14,253 --> 01:41:17,772
Speaker 2: And you know, can you just imagine what he was

2071
01:41:17,772 --> 01:41:19,093
Speaker 2: going through when he was bolted in.

2072
01:41:19,213 --> 01:41:22,213
Speaker 4: Oh frightening. I mean, remember when it was all unfolding.

2073
01:41:22,253 --> 01:41:25,092
Speaker 4: And I think most of us, I certainly thought before

2074
01:41:25,093 --> 01:41:27,333
Speaker 4: we knew it had imploded, that they'd be sitting somewhere

2075
01:41:27,333 --> 01:41:29,412
Speaker 4: down on the bottom of the ocean, six of those

2076
01:41:29,452 --> 01:41:33,692
Speaker 4: people inside that tiny little tin can. Of course it

2077
01:41:33,732 --> 01:41:37,053
Speaker 4: did implode, but terrifying, terrifying to get into that thing.

2078
01:41:37,293 --> 01:41:40,933
Speaker 4: And now what we know, and this documentary talks to

2079
01:41:40,933 --> 01:41:43,892
Speaker 4: a lot of formstaffers that Stockton Rush was an absolute

2080
01:41:43,893 --> 01:41:49,092
Speaker 4: mad doc. There were several concerns and safety issues and

2081
01:41:49,293 --> 01:41:52,173
Speaker 4: unscientific methods used, and many staff members tried to call

2082
01:41:52,213 --> 01:41:54,372
Speaker 4: him out and he either gave them a flick or

2083
01:41:54,412 --> 01:41:55,532
Speaker 4: completely silenced them.

2084
01:41:55,732 --> 01:42:01,293
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Shadzada Dahwood and Solomon Darwood. So the

2085
01:42:01,372 --> 01:42:04,213
Speaker 2: nineteen year old, the Sun Boy, just being bolted in

2086
01:42:04,253 --> 01:42:05,452
Speaker 2: there when he didn't really want.

2087
01:42:05,333 --> 01:42:08,172
Speaker 4: To go, incredibly sad.

2088
01:42:07,933 --> 01:42:11,852
Speaker 2: Incredibly So it's one thing for Stockton Rush to die.

2089
01:42:12,173 --> 01:42:14,293
Speaker 2: But the people that he took down there, and there

2090
01:42:14,333 --> 01:42:17,013
Speaker 2: was the Titanic expert, a very famous Titanic expert that

2091
01:42:17,053 --> 01:42:18,652
Speaker 2: was on there. He kind of knew what he was

2092
01:42:18,692 --> 01:42:21,492
Speaker 2: in for. He was at least an expert on it.

2093
01:42:21,532 --> 01:42:23,293
Speaker 2: But people that were paying for a joy ride, they

2094
01:42:23,293 --> 01:42:27,213
Speaker 2: had no idea, especially teenage boy yep.

2095
01:42:27,412 --> 01:42:29,333
Speaker 4: Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to

2096
01:42:29,333 --> 01:42:31,492
Speaker 4: call if you've seen the documentary Love your Thoughts. But

2097
01:42:31,572 --> 01:42:35,052
Speaker 4: also when you've had to stand up to a manager

2098
01:42:35,253 --> 01:42:38,133
Speaker 4: or a boss and what happened? How did you do it?

2099
01:42:38,293 --> 01:42:41,213
Speaker 2: Yeah, because people tried to stand up to Stockton Rush,

2100
01:42:41,213 --> 01:42:44,452
Speaker 2: the CEO of Ocean Gate. But what they did, what

2101
01:42:44,532 --> 01:42:47,692
Speaker 2: happened was they'd get fired and then sometimes taken to court. Lee.

2102
01:42:47,732 --> 01:42:51,173
Speaker 2: You have to fight a manager on something improper, Yes,

2103
01:42:51,372 --> 01:42:51,772
Speaker 2: and what.

2104
01:42:51,812 --> 01:42:56,173
Speaker 17: Had come down from high tech mercy ball and path

2105
01:42:56,293 --> 01:42:58,052
Speaker 17: to decrepit old land Rover.

2106
01:43:00,093 --> 01:43:02,253
Speaker 4: I certainly fell out of my depth talking to Canner.

2107
01:43:02,372 --> 01:43:04,133
Speaker 4: She was a pretty pretty incredible woman.

2108
01:43:05,133 --> 01:43:10,053
Speaker 17: Yes, so what it's worth. After twenty three years from

2109
01:43:10,093 --> 01:43:13,652
Speaker 17: the Navy, my first civilion job was managing a fish

2110
01:43:13,692 --> 01:43:18,293
Speaker 17: factory on the Chatham Islands. Twelve fishermen, three divers, and

2111
01:43:18,333 --> 01:43:22,452
Speaker 17: they were joined by a fresh water eel fisherman who

2112
01:43:22,532 --> 01:43:25,973
Speaker 17: came down, shipped his family down his ute and his

2113
01:43:26,133 --> 01:43:30,412
Speaker 17: failure and all his gear, and then found that he

2114
01:43:30,492 --> 01:43:38,093
Speaker 17: had a problem getting his catch away from boggy river

2115
01:43:38,652 --> 01:43:44,652
Speaker 17: edges and lakes edges. And he approached the company, the

2116
01:43:44,732 --> 01:43:49,213
Speaker 17: main New Zealand company for whom I worked, and asked

2117
01:43:49,333 --> 01:43:52,933
Speaker 17: for a de preparate old land rover which my engineer

2118
01:43:53,812 --> 01:43:58,732
Speaker 17: was using the pirates for part to keep our land

2119
01:43:58,812 --> 01:44:04,572
Speaker 17: rover going. They gave him a small budget and he

2120
01:44:05,612 --> 01:44:08,852
Speaker 17: got the thing functioning and was able to get his

2121
01:44:09,013 --> 01:44:12,772
Speaker 17: catch away, and then out of the blue, as the

2122
01:44:12,812 --> 01:44:16,213
Speaker 17: locals the ship which served the island the home down

2123
01:44:16,893 --> 01:44:22,652
Speaker 17: was actually at White Hagy discharging and loading. The company

2124
01:44:22,812 --> 01:44:28,892
Speaker 17: rang up and told me to tell Shortmen. Oh, his

2125
01:44:29,053 --> 01:44:32,052
Speaker 17: name wasn't Shortman. That was the nickname he earned because

2126
01:44:32,053 --> 01:44:35,293
Speaker 17: he was very short and his wife was quite tall,

2127
01:44:35,772 --> 01:44:40,293
Speaker 17: and they were catching shortman eels and long finiels. They

2128
01:44:40,452 --> 01:44:49,572
Speaker 17: nickname shortmen and long thin short. When I told him

2129
01:44:49,572 --> 01:44:54,372
Speaker 17: what they demanded, and they were demanding an our outrageous sun.

2130
01:44:55,572 --> 01:44:59,412
Speaker 17: I spoke to the local garage proprietor who had a

2131
01:44:59,452 --> 01:45:03,652
Speaker 17: fleet of land rovers, because he advised me as to

2132
01:45:03,772 --> 01:45:08,492
Speaker 17: what he would buy the thing for and what the

2133
01:45:08,612 --> 01:45:11,572
Speaker 17: bride that I would buy it, And neither of those

2134
01:45:11,692 --> 01:45:16,093
Speaker 17: prices even matched the putting it on the ship and

2135
01:45:16,133 --> 01:45:19,612
Speaker 17: shipping it to New Zealand. It wasn't worth stipping out.

2136
01:45:19,933 --> 01:45:25,213
Speaker 17: The company would have lost money. So I defied them,

2137
01:45:25,253 --> 01:45:29,012
Speaker 17: and of course it meant that Shortman would be unable

2138
01:45:29,133 --> 01:45:34,172
Speaker 17: to continue fishing after all the expense of shipping everything

2139
01:45:34,253 --> 01:45:38,413
Speaker 17: down to the chatter, and so the company and I

2140
01:45:38,572 --> 01:45:44,173
Speaker 17: argued over it. I went home that evening hires the

2141
01:45:44,293 --> 01:45:48,253
Speaker 17: kite because after twenty three years in the Navy, I

2142
01:45:48,333 --> 01:45:53,973
Speaker 17: had submitted an act of willful disobedience or civilian employer.

2143
01:45:55,053 --> 01:45:58,852
Speaker 17: The ridiculous thing about the whole drama was, as we

2144
01:45:58,853 --> 01:46:03,133
Speaker 17: were arguing and as I was coming down off, the

2145
01:46:05,933 --> 01:46:09,973
Speaker 17: vehicle was so rusted that its chassy had broken. It

2146
01:46:10,093 --> 01:46:15,653
Speaker 17: was sitting thirty kilometers away until Chalttam tould get assistance

2147
01:46:16,173 --> 01:46:19,293
Speaker 17: to get it and weld it all up again. That's

2148
01:46:19,372 --> 01:46:23,652
Speaker 17: how little it was worked. And the whole thing died

2149
01:46:23,692 --> 01:46:27,172
Speaker 17: an actual death, and I was waiting for the heavens

2150
01:46:27,213 --> 01:46:31,452
Speaker 17: to fall on me, and the company kept me on

2151
01:46:32,333 --> 01:46:37,492
Speaker 17: and buy me. A few months later a similar event,

2152
01:46:38,053 --> 01:46:43,133
Speaker 17: not quite so dramatic or drastic, came up. Again. I

2153
01:46:43,253 --> 01:46:49,852
Speaker 17: refuse to to deal with the fishermen involved in the

2154
01:46:49,893 --> 01:46:52,852
Speaker 17: way they wanted, and eventually, after about a year and

2155
01:46:52,893 --> 01:46:57,973
Speaker 17: a half, I resigned and we went our separate ways.

2156
01:46:58,293 --> 01:47:05,212
Speaker 17: But it's just an illustration of how uncaring a company

2157
01:47:05,293 --> 01:47:09,772
Speaker 17: can be for the people to whom they from whom

2158
01:47:09,812 --> 01:47:10,612
Speaker 17: they make a living.

2159
01:47:11,253 --> 01:47:12,452
Speaker 2: Nikki Lee, you're a good guy.

2160
01:47:12,732 --> 01:47:14,173
Speaker 4: That's a heck of a thing to stand up to

2161
01:47:14,213 --> 01:47:16,133
Speaker 4: that company when they put that much money on the line.

2162
01:47:16,173 --> 01:47:17,932
Speaker 4: And as Lee say is as a former navy man,

2163
01:47:18,013 --> 01:47:19,732
Speaker 4: he's been told what to do all his life and

2164
01:47:19,772 --> 01:47:21,492
Speaker 4: he never said no. But good on you, Lee, that

2165
01:47:21,692 --> 01:47:23,732
Speaker 4: is taken a stance. So I wait, hundred eighty ten

2166
01:47:23,812 --> 01:47:26,213
Speaker 4: eighty is the number to call. It's quarter to four.

2167
01:47:27,492 --> 01:47:30,652
Speaker 1: Have a chat with the lads on eight eighty ten eighty.

2168
01:47:30,853 --> 01:47:35,253
Speaker 1: Matt Heathan Taylor Adams Afternoons News Talk said be afternoon.

2169
01:47:35,253 --> 01:47:37,573
Speaker 4: It is thirteen two four.

2170
01:47:37,973 --> 01:47:40,772
Speaker 2: So apparently yeah, according to Grantee, James Cameron does a

2171
01:47:40,812 --> 01:47:46,372
Speaker 2: great debroof on this whole situation on YouTube on the

2172
01:47:46,412 --> 01:47:51,253
Speaker 2: Ocean Gate Titan disaster. James Camera reveals new information about

2173
01:47:51,333 --> 01:47:55,812
Speaker 2: Titanic's sub disaster. Very very interesting. And James Cameron, of course,

2174
01:47:55,853 --> 01:47:58,772
Speaker 2: the director of Titanic and who has done a number

2175
01:47:58,812 --> 01:48:04,092
Speaker 2: of documentaries, who has gone down on proper safe subs

2176
01:48:04,133 --> 01:48:08,333
Speaker 2: and had a look, he certainly knows what he's talking

2177
01:48:08,372 --> 01:48:10,692
Speaker 2: about in this era area. But I mean, the thing

2178
01:48:10,692 --> 01:48:13,133
Speaker 2: with the Titan submersible was they wanted it to be

2179
01:48:13,213 --> 01:48:15,732
Speaker 2: light enough, so it was cheaper or cheap enough to

2180
01:48:15,853 --> 01:48:22,852
Speaker 2: take out on the ship to put it under. Whereas

2181
01:48:22,893 --> 01:48:24,652
Speaker 2: you know the ones that James Camera is going down

2182
01:48:24,652 --> 01:48:27,333
Speaker 2: on on very expensive ships, and they're very expensive boats.

2183
01:48:27,093 --> 01:48:28,412
Speaker 4: And millions and millions and millions.

2184
01:48:28,492 --> 01:48:31,053
Speaker 2: So to make it a commercial venture, to make it

2185
01:48:31,093 --> 01:48:36,733
Speaker 2: like a sort of a you know, a tourist ride, yeah,

2186
01:48:36,812 --> 01:48:38,532
Speaker 2: that was that was the idea of ocean Gate, but

2187
01:48:39,452 --> 01:48:42,572
Speaker 2: probably not something that was even possible.

2188
01:48:42,293 --> 01:48:46,812
Speaker 4: Exactly, Steve. You took on a big company, Yes.

2189
01:48:46,732 --> 01:48:47,253
Speaker 17: Yeah, I did.

2190
01:48:47,333 --> 01:48:50,173
Speaker 22: Hey, first time, Polly. He is so shaking all we

2191
01:48:50,253 --> 01:48:51,612
Speaker 22: bit Steve.

2192
01:48:51,652 --> 01:48:53,772
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening, Thank you for calling. Appreciate it.

2193
01:48:54,133 --> 01:48:54,612
Speaker 21: That's good.

2194
01:48:54,933 --> 01:48:59,892
Speaker 22: Hey, I took on a New Zealand company about seven

2195
01:48:59,973 --> 01:49:02,652
Speaker 22: years ago, and I'm.

2196
01:49:02,492 --> 01:49:03,412
Speaker 9: Pleased I did.

2197
01:49:04,652 --> 01:49:06,053
Speaker 22: There was a hell of a lot of streets and

2198
01:49:06,173 --> 01:49:09,572
Speaker 22: doing it because as you never know whether you're going

2199
01:49:09,612 --> 01:49:11,612
Speaker 22: to get the right ant or the answer that you're

2200
01:49:11,652 --> 01:49:14,692
Speaker 22: looking for. But it was great.

2201
01:49:14,812 --> 01:49:16,492
Speaker 9: I came out.

2202
01:49:16,612 --> 01:49:17,972
Speaker 16: Basically what the story is, I.

2203
01:49:17,973 --> 01:49:24,533
Speaker 9: Won, but in seeing I won and walk away smiling.

2204
01:49:26,213 --> 01:49:30,173
Speaker 9: The years after are still very hard for you.

2205
01:49:30,572 --> 01:49:33,612
Speaker 22: One you've got to start again in your employments. One

2206
01:49:34,293 --> 01:49:38,532
Speaker 22: that it's also a something that hangs on that you've

2207
01:49:39,133 --> 01:49:44,093
Speaker 22: left a job for that reason. But your health is

2208
01:49:44,133 --> 01:49:51,012
Speaker 22: another biggie. I suffered after doing all this or before

2209
01:49:51,173 --> 01:49:55,572
Speaker 22: end during with anxiety and what have you now? Seven

2210
01:49:55,652 --> 01:50:00,053
Speaker 22: years later, I still suffer from anxiety and still get

2211
01:50:00,093 --> 01:50:05,093
Speaker 22: the same symptoms even just thinking about things, even though

2212
01:50:05,093 --> 01:50:08,732
Speaker 22: I've tried the hardest to try and put it behind me,

2213
01:50:08,893 --> 01:50:12,372
Speaker 22: and I'm in a brilliant new employment now. But you

2214
01:50:12,452 --> 01:50:18,413
Speaker 22: still have doctor's appointments and medication to purchase.

2215
01:50:19,372 --> 01:50:21,372
Speaker 2: Do you still think you still think? I believe that

2216
01:50:21,412 --> 01:50:23,612
Speaker 2: it was the right thing to do. So what the

2217
01:50:23,612 --> 01:50:26,213
Speaker 2: company was doing was so wrong that even all you've

2218
01:50:26,253 --> 01:50:28,852
Speaker 2: gone through you think it was the right thing to do.

2219
01:50:29,772 --> 01:50:32,972
Speaker 22: Definitely the right thing to do. But just even though

2220
01:50:33,013 --> 01:50:36,532
Speaker 22: you come out on top, there's still I've still got

2221
01:50:36,732 --> 01:50:38,972
Speaker 22: the expenses I've had since.

2222
01:50:39,893 --> 01:50:42,572
Speaker 2: Really, what can you give any details of what what

2223
01:50:42,612 --> 01:50:44,372
Speaker 2: the what the company was doing wrong? Well, I mean,

2224
01:50:44,412 --> 01:50:45,892
Speaker 2: obviously you can't give too many details.

2225
01:50:47,412 --> 01:50:53,053
Speaker 22: Understand, I was actually literally being bullied by a second

2226
01:50:53,133 --> 01:50:56,932
Speaker 22: from the top, like it was New Zealand wide, so

2227
01:50:57,372 --> 01:51:00,492
Speaker 22: it was second from the top in a sort of

2228
01:51:00,572 --> 01:51:07,452
Speaker 22: like a satellite branch, and I accepted it for a

2229
01:51:07,492 --> 01:51:09,732
Speaker 22: long time thinking, oh, you know, it's just the person,

2230
01:51:09,772 --> 01:51:14,333
Speaker 22: and you know, maybe I was doing something wrong. And

2231
01:51:14,412 --> 01:51:17,333
Speaker 22: Tom got to the stage where it was actually affecting

2232
01:51:17,412 --> 01:51:22,732
Speaker 22: my health, that was making me sick and even and

2233
01:51:22,772 --> 01:51:27,293
Speaker 22: then I got the stage where I see help from

2234
01:51:27,333 --> 01:51:31,052
Speaker 22: the doctor and a lawyer and I had to actually

2235
01:51:31,093 --> 01:51:32,932
Speaker 22: resign from the place.

2236
01:51:33,572 --> 01:51:36,452
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you so much. Care sorry to hear that, Steve,

2237
01:51:36,492 --> 01:51:37,612
Speaker 2: but it sounds like you did the right thing.

2238
01:51:37,692 --> 01:51:39,852
Speaker 4: Yep, and glad you've got a good job now apart

2239
01:51:39,893 --> 01:51:42,412
Speaker 4: from the trauma as well. Thank you very much. It

2240
01:51:42,532 --> 01:51:44,773
Speaker 4: is eight minutes to fall back very shortly.

2241
01:51:45,652 --> 01:51:48,933
Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, to the big trends

2242
01:51:48,973 --> 01:51:52,733
Speaker 1: and everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons

2243
01:51:52,973 --> 01:51:58,012
Speaker 1: used talks. They'd be coming up at fourth. It's Heather Duplessy, Alan.

2244
01:51:57,853 --> 01:52:00,852
Speaker 23: Drive returning Kiwi's in Israel and in Iran to get

2245
01:52:00,893 --> 01:52:03,852
Speaker 23: out of there as fighting in both countries escalates. Foreign

2246
01:52:03,853 --> 01:52:06,572
Speaker 23: Minister Winston Peters is with us after five. What's the

2247
01:52:06,652 --> 01:52:08,732
Speaker 23: event really doing with sick Leaf? When to get to

2248
01:52:08,732 --> 01:52:11,492
Speaker 23: the bottom of who's getting their lead cut? Plus can

2249
01:52:11,532 --> 01:52:13,612
Speaker 23: I replace a therapist? We're going to talk to a

2250
01:52:13,652 --> 01:52:15,573
Speaker 23: clinical psychologist about therapy.

2251
01:52:15,333 --> 01:52:19,133
Speaker 1: Chat, asking the questions, getting the information you need. Heather

2252
01:52:19,253 --> 01:52:23,173
Speaker 1: duplessy Ellen Drive with One New Zealand Next on news

2253
01:52:23,213 --> 01:52:25,253
Speaker 1: Dog zebby five to four.

2254
01:52:25,293 --> 01:52:28,932
Speaker 4: We've been talking, obviously about the Titan Ocean Gate disaster

2255
01:52:29,013 --> 01:52:32,732
Speaker 4: documentary that has been launched on Netflix, wildly popular. Quick

2256
01:52:32,772 --> 01:52:35,452
Speaker 4: text from Lindy here she's watched it. Giday. Guys, I'm

2257
01:52:35,452 --> 01:52:38,413
Speaker 4: biased because I'm Scottish, but the Scottish guy, David Lockridge,

2258
01:52:38,452 --> 01:52:40,253
Speaker 4: was the hero of all this. He was the only

2259
01:52:40,293 --> 01:52:42,852
Speaker 4: one brave enough to whistle blow, even though he was

2260
01:52:42,853 --> 01:52:45,932
Speaker 4: ignored by authorities and threatened to be ruined by the boss.

2261
01:52:45,973 --> 01:52:48,093
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's definitely the hero of the show. Hey, thank

2262
01:52:48,133 --> 01:52:49,652
Speaker 2: you all your great New zealanderts for listening to the

2263
01:52:49,652 --> 01:52:51,772
Speaker 2: show today. Thanks so much for all your calls and texts.

2264
01:52:51,772 --> 01:52:53,572
Speaker 2: We've had a great time chatting. Hope you have two

2265
01:52:54,133 --> 01:52:56,772
Speaker 2: Matt Tayler. Afternoon's podcast will be out in about an hour,

2266
01:52:56,893 --> 01:52:59,053
Speaker 2: So if you missed any of our chats on overcrowded

2267
01:52:59,133 --> 01:53:01,133
Speaker 2: schools in New Zealand and where the parents should be

2268
01:53:01,173 --> 01:53:03,532
Speaker 2: braver and just seeing their children to the nearest school,

2269
01:53:03,572 --> 01:53:06,372
Speaker 2: and that good old chat we had about the Ocean

2270
01:53:06,492 --> 01:53:10,973
Speaker 2: Gate Titanic Disaster. Download and follow our podcast where we

2271
01:53:11,013 --> 01:53:14,612
Speaker 2: get your pods. The Sir Paul Holmes broadcast of The

2272
01:53:14,853 --> 01:53:17,213
Speaker 2: Hair That Duplus the Island is up next. But right now, Tyler,

2273
01:53:17,612 --> 01:53:19,892
Speaker 2: why am I playing this song?

2274
01:53:20,933 --> 01:53:23,012
Speaker 4: Because we're all just bricks in the wall. No matter

2275
01:53:23,053 --> 01:53:25,412
Speaker 4: what school you go to, Pink Floyd, great chunk.

2276
01:53:25,692 --> 01:53:27,972
Speaker 2: There you go, wherever you are, what are you doing

2277
01:53:28,013 --> 01:53:31,053
Speaker 2: until tomorrow afternoon? Give him a taste of keiw from

2278
01:53:31,093 --> 01:53:48,692
Speaker 2: us Love here you don't get me.

2279
01:53:49,053 --> 01:53:57,892
Speaker 1: Shut For more from News Talks b listen live on

2280
01:53:58,013 --> 01:54:01,012
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

2281
01:54:01,053 --> 01:54:03,572
Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio