WEBVTT - What’s at stake as COP30 begins on the edge of the Amazon rainforest 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:05.680 Kiyota. 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.040 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:10.920 daily podcast. 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:12.520 Presented by The New Zealand Herald. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:20.840 The thirtieth UN Climate Conference begins this week. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:26.000 Nations will gather in Belem, Brazil for COP thirty. And 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:26.600 while the. 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:31.080 Trump administration isn't intending to send anyone, the US could 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:35.600 still become the thorn in any deals side. So as 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.559 the world's brightest climate mines converge on the city that 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:44.320 sits just on the outskirts of the Amazon rainforest, experts 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:49.280 asking whether anything substantial will come from these negotiations. Today 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.479 on the Front Page, University of Otago Associate Professor Daniel 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:57.720 Kingston is with us to discuss how important COP is. 0:00:57.920 --> 0:00:59.040 And why we should care. 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:07.959 So, Daniel, tell me what is COP thirty. 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.840 So cop COP stands for Conference of the Parties. So 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.320 just to back up a bit about what that means. 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:19.559 In nineteen ninety two, at the Earth Summit in Rio, 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.920 most of the world's countries got together and signed a 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:29.080 climate agreement called the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:31.960 and so all countries in the world signed up to 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:37.840 that and since that, since that treaty was signed, the 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.840 signatories to that treaty have met every year since, and 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:43.200 so that's a conference of the party who has been 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.240 COP one, COP two, COP three and so on, and 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:49.640 we're at thirty. The aim of that initial treaty back 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:55.080 in nineteen ninety two was to prevent dangerous human interference 0:01:55.120 --> 0:02:00.400 with the climate system. That sounds great, but was just 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:05.560 an intention. They didn't actually define what dangerous climate change 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:10.359 was or how to prevent it. So the meetings since 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.919 have been about trying to kind of, you know, make 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.880 those definitions. What is dangerous climate change? How ambitious should 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.639 we be, who should take the lead, who should should 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:25.040 people some countries do more, do less? You know, how 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.000 can we prevent dangerous climate change? So that's what these 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:29.720 these meetings are all about. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.799 Given we've been concerned, at least a little bit concern 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.359 for decades now about the effects of climate change on 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:41.959 our earth. Does it worry you that the UN has 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:46.560 now said it's virtually impossible to keep the international target 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:52.720 of limiting global warming of one point five degrees celsius. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:58.679 Yeah, it's pretty concerning. There are about kind of five 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.120 or six or seven years go now. There was a 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:06.000 special report by the Intergovernmental Panel on climate change, looking 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:11.040 at kind of what dangerous climate change might be, and 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.360 in particular looking at the threshold of one point five 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:18.720 degree warming and two degree warming, and when we start 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.080 to get above that one point five degree level is 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.240 when we start to see some of the more serious 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:29.200 impacts of climate change. So, according to the Paris Agreement 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:35.760 which resulted from COP twenty one in twenty fifteen, I 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:40.480 think there was an agreement from the world's countries that 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.200 we would try to limit climate change to below two 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.640 degrees or preferably at one point five degrees. So for 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:52.280 now this report to come out to say that basically 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:57.640 we've just about missed the boat, it's hugely concerning, Yes, is. 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.280 There any way of backtracking or do you reckon that's it? 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:05.480 To meet this goal our emissions as they were in 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.720 twenty nineteen, would we need to cut by more than 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:13.240 half to stop us reaching that one point five threshold 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:17.200 by twenty thirty five That if you kind of think 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.520 about the way the world's set up at the moment, 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.320 the kind of the political environment, it's really not going 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.800 to happen, almost certainly. And so that's that's kind of 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.240 the conclusions of this report. But then you know, thinking 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.960 after that, it is possible to kind of pull things 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:39.800 back on track. Okay, just because we've you know, we 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.160 may end up breaching that threshold, it doesn't mean that 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.480 we can't pull it back to below that threshold at 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.159 some point in the future. Right, The key thing is 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.000 how far we're going to overshoot and how long that 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.760 overshoot is going to last. For the more action we take, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.440 the quicker we take it, the less that overshoot is 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:58.240 going to be, and. 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.039 What kind of things can be down I guess from 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.880 a larger governmental level to a smaller level. I mean, 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.960 is me washing my yogurt caps before putting them in 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.880 the recycling bin, doing anything to get us below that level. 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:18.520 Yeah, so there's pretty much a linear relationship between more 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.920 carbon in the atmosphere and more global warming. So from 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.520 that sense, yeah, everything really does make a difference, you know, 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.440 whether it's just like turning off a light, you know, 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.920 when you leave a room, whether that's driving your car less, 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.279 taking one fewer international flight, you know, right up to 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.800 the kind of the top of government decisions around you know, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.440 national level emissions. It all makes a difference, and no 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.560 one's powerless even if it might seem kind of trivial, 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.440 you know, like recycling versus chucking out your yogurt pots. 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:58.000 Yeah, what's the significance of COP thirty being held in Brazil? 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.080 There's some symbolism from it, I suppose, So as I 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:08.680 mentioned that first global climate treaty, the UNFCCC, was signed 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.120 in Rio in Brazil, So there's some history of hosting 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:19.719 successful major international conferences in Brazil. And obviously it's home 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.000 to the Amazon rainforest and majority of that rainforest, which 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:27.560 is the biggest rainforest rainforest area in the planet, and 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:34.159 it's hugely important from you know, from a biodiversity perspective, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.560 but also from the climate system. It's so big that 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:42.520 it effectively generates its own climate and also has an 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:47.800 influence on the global climate system. So when we think 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:54.679 about tropical rainforest loss, we're actually influencing the global climate 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.320 system as that system kind of shrinks and becomes degraded. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.839 So there's a lot of yeah, I guess, symbolism from 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:02.760 holding it there. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.080 And that information that we know about the Amazon is 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.400 that while we were planting so many trees a few 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.240 years back, wasn't it something like we were going to 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.160 plant like a million trees or something. 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:17.680 Yeah, it's not unrelated. So as a plant grows, it 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.480 sucks out carbon from the atmosphere. So in theory, right, 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.160 the more trees you plant, the more carbon you get 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.840 out of the atmosphere. And so this country and others 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.560 do use that sort of kind of a forestation process 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.520 to meet some of their climate goals. It's not as 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:41.360 simple as that, you know. It depends what happens once 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:45.000 that tree is finished growing, right, if you chop it 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.560 up and burn it, then you're just putting that carbon 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.000 back into the atmosphere, so that there's kind of not 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:56.600 so much of an overall wind there. Old old growth, 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:01.680 existing forests, you know, and native trees are often much 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.400 more important kind of preserving what we've got. There's a 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.600 huge amount of carbon locked up in the Amazon rainforest, 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:14.280 and the system as a whole sucks out carbon from 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.600 the atmosphere at the moment, so it's holding back the 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.520 level of climate change that has happened. But as it 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.080 starts to shrink and as it starts to get degraded, 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.240 it has the potential to switch to a carbon source. 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.520 Right when you chop down those trees, when you change land, 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.640 use that area starts being a net emitter of carbon 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:38.280 instead of a net absorber. So yeah, dancing trees is good, 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.120 but it's not quite that simple. 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.680 Looking around the world, what other governments have weakened existing 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.120 legislated domestic climate targets? 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.960 The reality is is that you know, we are reasssing 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.599 on all countries are continually reassissing the target. So this 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:04.280 specific So meny to your question because every country has 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:06.920 different mixes. And again, as I see New Zealand's mix 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:07.680 is very different. 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.000 I appreciate that our missions profile is very different to 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.840 countries that aren't is relying on agriculture and don't have 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:15.240 the renewable energy source. 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:16.280 Sorry sorry, just let me. 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.400 Ask that minister that can you name a single country? 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.760 Can you name a single country that has weakened existing 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.360 legislated domestic climate targets? 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.240 As I said, I'm not aware of that point. But 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.079 what I am aware of the world leading in that sense. 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:36.880 What are New Zealand's updated emissions targets for COP thirty 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.120 and how significant are they do you think? 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.880 Yeah? So, just to back up slightly, under the Paris Agreement, 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:49.360 each country that signed up to that has to submit 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.920 emission reduction plans periodically and so the latest round of 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.120 these has been happening this year. And so New Zealand 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:04.680 did submit an updated emissions reduction plan. Their previous one 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:10.520 was a fifty percent reduction in what our emissions were 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.600 in two thousand and five, and we'd achieved that fifty 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:19.520 percent reduction by twenty thirty, so that upgraded plan isn't 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.160 much of an upgrade. It's kind of from fifty percent 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.680 by twenty thirty to fifty one to fifty five percent 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.960 by twenty thirty five, so it's kind of it's met 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.400 those goals from Paris, but it's a it's a pretty 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:39.160 small increase really, and that compares with the UK, which 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.640 has committed to an more than an eighty percent reduction 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:48.200 from their nineteen ninety levels. Even rapidly industrializing countries like 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:54.080 Brazil have submitted more more ambitious targets than New Zealand have. 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.280 And I guess you might think, you know, fifty percent 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.880 is a pretty hefty reduction, right, and it would be 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.000 great if we could, you know, if we actually achieved that, 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:08.760 that's great, But in the bigger context of what's going 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.480 on in that one point five degree threshold, that we're 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:17.360 going to miss No one's taking enough action, enough major 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.040 action right now. Everyone needs to be more ambitious. So 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.600 to see such a small kind of ratcheting up from 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.880 the New Zealand government was pretty disappointing. I suppose Do. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:32.520 You think it's disappointing or realistic? Could we actually bump 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:33.559 that up to eighty. 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.239 Well or is that just posturing? 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:43.439 Yeah? I guess that's an important point, right Promises need 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.120 to be kind of followed up by action. We have 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:53.600 seen a kind of what's the the I guess we 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.000 might say backsliding. Maybe I don't think of the more 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.880 polite term than that right now. You know, in terms 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.960 of climate policy the last few years, there are a 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:06.400 number of emission reduction plans in place from the previous 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.719 government and they've been mostly kind of let go by 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:14.920 the current government without any replacement, you know, by alternative ideas. 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.880 If you know, you might not have liked the kind 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:22.080 of the clean car rebate, the UTAX, but if you're 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.440 going to get rid of that, then what are you 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:25.520 going to replace it with? And I don't think we've 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:30.280 seen kind of enough ambition from the current government to 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.040 kind of well, okay, if we're not going to do that, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.679 then then what are we going to do? You know, 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.559 and then the idea, well, you know, drilling for you know, 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.400 allowing more drilling for oil in the context in this 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:48.040 current context again kind of it doesn't match the urgency 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:49.280 of the situation. 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:50.920 Because the situation is urgent. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.480 You mentioned the UK there, UK Prime Minister Kirs Darma 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.440 has told world leaders that the consensus is gone on 0:12:58.640 --> 0:12:59.960 fighting climate change. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:01.040 Would you agree with him? 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.320 Yeah, I certainly think we're in a different position to 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.200 where we were, you know when the Paris Agreement site 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.760 was signed, you know, or maybe even four or five 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.839 years ago. Right, Governments change, and government priorities change, and 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.080 the extent to which they can bring along their populations 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.640 with them change. We're certainly not in the same position 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.640 that we were before. And you know, at the present moment, 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.280 those kind of that international community isn't as aligned as 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:31.840 it has been. 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.840 How difficult is it to have a big conference like this, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.120 obviously the biggest climate change conference in the world. We're 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.920 talking about moving forward, we're talking about or getting onto 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.760 the same page and not having the US at the table. 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.960 Well, the you know, the second I think the second 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.880 biggest emitter globally at the moment. So it's obviously a 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.160 big hole, right if they're pulling out of the whole system. 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:02.040 I guess there's a timescale issue here in this. You know, 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.000 the political cycle in the US last for five years 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.080 in terms of a presidential term. But what we're looking 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.320 at here is something that's carrying on for decades, you know, 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.000 through to and beyond the end of the century. So 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.199 there will be kind of, you know, variations in how 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:23.040 much different countries can commit to this, but that you know, 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.720 there is a sense of kind of following the pack here, right. 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.920 If everyone's doing it, then you become the kind of 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.360 the odd ball, the standout if you're not doing it. 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:35.640 Even China's getting on board, aren't. 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.200 They, Yeah, exactly exactly. So, like China is the biggest 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.400 emitter of greenhouse gases in the world, but they're also 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.800 they have the most renewable electricity generation installed in the world. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.760 They're installing more than anywhere else, and that the cost 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.240 of renewable energy is cheaper and cheaper all the time, 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:59.040 to the point where you know, in many situations it's 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.680 cheaper to generate electricity renewably than it is from fossil fuels. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.120 So things keep turning and there are kind of bumped 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.800 along the way, you know, associated with political cycles, but 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.080 it's going one way in the end, and so I 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.480 guess it's up to the rest of the international community 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:18.040 to kind of stick with it. 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:28.440 But global warming not happening. You know, it used to 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.000 be global cooling. If you look back years ago, in 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.920 the nineteen twenties and the nineteen thirties, they said global 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.440 cooling will kill the world. We have to do something. 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.680 Then they said global warming will kill the world. But 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.120 then it started getting cooler, so now they could just 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.000 call a climate change because that way they can't miss 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:53.680 climate change, because if it goes higher or lower, whatever 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:58.000 the hell happens, is climate change. It's the greatest con 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.480 job ever perpetrated in the world, in my opinion. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.120 What would you like to see come out of COP. 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:11.400 Thirty Recognition of the urgency of the situation? Really, you know, 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.400 there are lots of kind of you know, big picture 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.040 and also technical things that are going to be discussed there, 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.800 from just kind of the general kind of feel of 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.760 the room around the urgency to some much more specific actions, 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:31.080 you know, around energy generation, finance, tropical rainforests and so on. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.680 But just that sort of that combined will to do 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.640 something that came out of the Paris Agreement, just to 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.119 kind of see that bolstered. 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.280 I guess do you reckon that when they signed the 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.680 Paris Agreement all those years ago that they actually thought 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:48.280 that it was going to be this bad. 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:51.280 Oh? 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.520 I don't know, you know what I mean though, it's 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:56.920 just like imagine I can imagine all of them. 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.200 But you know, there's some some media about it. 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.720 People are saying all the earth is warming, and you know, 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.280 they go and sign this document and go haha, like 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.159 look at this document, and then we get up to 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.760 it right up to Cop thirty and everyone's. 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:16.640 Like, guys, yeah, I mean Paris was a huge, kind 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.119 of a huge achievement, right. It was a big step forward. 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.360 But at the same time, it was only words, right, 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.520 and they probably knew that when it came to actually 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.760 kind of dealing with the nitty gritty of it actually 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.160 doing stuff, that it was going to get more difficult. Yeah, 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:32.040 the way it always is. 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:38.159 I guess what concrete impacts of climate change are already 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.440 being observed in New Zealand. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:46.320 Well, it's getting warmer. If you look at the temperature records, 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.399 you can see that. Maybe you can't feel it kind 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.360 of day to day, but we see it in other 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:52.959 aspects of the environment, you know, in terms of our 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:58.160 snowcover shrinking, our glaciers shrinking year on year. We see 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.479 it around extreme of e So you know, floods are 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:06.119 a particularly obvious one. The Auckland Anniversary weekend floods and 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:10.040 Cyclone Gabrielle. They were all worse because of climate change 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.800 because they occurred in a warmer atmosphere. 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:12.600 And. 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.720 You know, there's some scientific uncertainty around just how much 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.399 worse they were, but they were definitely worse. So you know, 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:23.679 that means they're kind of the flooding that came with it, 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:30.080 infrastructure damage, the loss of life, you know, impacts on 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.600 kind of you know, food production as well. There are 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.920 you know, quite substantial impacts you know, associated with those 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.800 events that were worse because of climate change. And we 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:46.880 see droughts as well becoming more intense internationally as well. 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.560 Just you know, the past kind of week or so, 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.600 Hurrican Melissa in the Caribbean, there was sixteen percent more 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.960 rainfall in that because of climate change. Winds were seven 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.879 percent stronger because you know, it was happening in a 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.400 warmer atmosphere, So yeah, we don't have to look too 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.640 far to see those sort of concrete impacts. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:11.119 And what climate solutions or innovations would you like to 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.240 see the most in New Zealand. What can we really 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:18.040 harness and make our own and really lead the world in. 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.680 We're going kind of slightly into my kind of personal 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.879 opinion now rather than my kind of professional expertise for 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.959 current scientist. But look, we've got most of the technology 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:33.000 available to deal with this, right. Electric cars are pretty 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:37.879 good and they're getting better. Rooftop solar is cheap, right, 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.840 it's just an upfront cost, just as there's an upfront 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.879 cost to buying a new car. We need help to 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.520 kind of make those initial steps and a lot of 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.840 that has to come from kind of from a government level. 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.560 But the technology, a lot of the technology is there 0:19:55.600 --> 0:20:00.119 to make a huge impact on our emissions. There's amazing 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.760 new kind of innovations going on in agriculture as well, 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:08.520 in terms of kind of the methane that gets emitted 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:12.040 from dairying, for instance. We just need more of a 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:16.440 push and to kind of to make it easier to change, 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.359 but also the kind of the messaging around it. There 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:24.359 are huge opportunities around kind of reducing greenhouse gases. It 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.320 doesn't have to be seen as a cost and negative 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.480 thing when it can actually lead to a kind of, 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:33.800 you know, huge additional beneficial changes as well as just 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:35.200 limiting climate change. 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.720 It's not enough anymore just to be cleaning out your 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:39.600 yoga caps. 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.480 Yeah, just recycling by itself isn't going to cut it. 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.600 No, thanks for joining us, Daniel. 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:48.919 No problem, Nice to talk to you. 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.199 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:59.120 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:03.840 at endzed hair dot nz. The Front Page is produced 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:07.560 by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also our editor. 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:12.440 I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.040 or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:18.120 for another look behind the headlines.