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Speaker 1: Time for politics. Wednesday. Mark Mitchell's with us along with

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Speaker 1: Ginny Anderson. Very good morning to both of you. Good

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Speaker 1: morning now, Ginny, take us through, and I mean this.

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Speaker 1: You know I love you, but take us through. Take

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Speaker 1: us through the anatomy of a numerical cock up, the

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Speaker 1: size of which you were responsible for last week and

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Speaker 1: when it came to the police beat.

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Speaker 2: Before I do that, I have to apologize in advance.

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Speaker 2: I'm at the airport and I had a bright idea

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Speaker 2: that I'd go in the Cortery dounge showers because it

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Speaker 2: will be quiet. So it is quite, but there's a

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Speaker 2: really big speaker and if they announced a flight going

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Speaker 2: out to New Plymouth, I apologize for that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you are in the shower cubicle. I am

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Speaker 1: in the Corey Lounge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: What are your port are you at?

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Speaker 2: I'm at Wellington, Fine to Auckland.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I've got fifty dollars for the first person who's

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Speaker 1: listening to us in the Corey Lounge in Wellington who

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Speaker 1: busts in the knocks on the door in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the progress.

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Speaker 2: It's three out in the empty shop.

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Speaker 3: It was safe.

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Speaker 1: Good on you right now. So how did you get

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Speaker 1: the numbers so wrong? Or did you deliberately get the

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Speaker 1: numbers so wrong? And you were busted.

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Speaker 2: Look, it wasn't deliberate. But when we were doing those numbers,

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Speaker 2: they should have been done a year on the year,

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Speaker 2: and so we took them from when National Foods came

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Speaker 2: into government to the date. But you know, ultimately I'm

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Speaker 2: responsible for how that's done, and in hindsight, we should

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Speaker 2: have done it a year on year, not a six

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Speaker 2: month period exactly.

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Speaker 1: So you can see the beat numbers are up.

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Speaker 2: So adn't catch it.

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Speaker 1: Would You can see the beat numbers are up. In

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Speaker 1: other words, Mark has increased the number of people on

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Speaker 1: the beat.

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Speaker 2: They do in some areas, they still don't in others,

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Speaker 2: and rural perhaps they have gone down. But overall, yes,

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Speaker 2: they had gone up. I will conceive that, but it's

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Speaker 2: been concentrated in the urban areas.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff, And you knew this all along, Mark, obviously.

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Speaker 3: Of course it's just a lame excuse. Of course they

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Speaker 3: should have measured the numbers properly instead of cherry picking.

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Speaker 3: And she got called out and it obviously didn't like

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Speaker 3: the fact that that they was sure they were trying

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Speaker 3: to deceive the media and they got called out. Good

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Speaker 3: on them, so they should have been.

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Speaker 1: Did you while I'm on police matters, just briefly, Mark,

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Speaker 1: did you see the TV three piece this week and

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Speaker 1: they interviewed a Blake and I can't remember his name,

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Speaker 1: but he's the head of something significant police wise in

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Speaker 1: christ Jets they'd rounded up one of the drug busts

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Speaker 1: and then we got the Vietnamese thing last night. This

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Speaker 1: guy on the news just ran through a list of

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Speaker 1: and you would understand this, Juney as well, having been

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Speaker 1: a police minister, of the list of not just gangs

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Speaker 1: but groups in this country that are involved in drugs,

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Speaker 1: planting people from offshore into the scene in this country.

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Speaker 1: And he just went on and on and on and

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Speaker 1: on about how many problems they've got, how many gangs

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Speaker 1: there are, how many groups there are, how many drugs

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Speaker 1: there are, and how many hundreds of millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of business have being done. I had no idea

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Speaker 1: how big it was.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's a big problem, and I mean I

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Speaker 3: watched it grow significantly and asking to christ the LUNs

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Speaker 3: to the operation last week, outstanding work by the police,

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Speaker 3: and I do reiterate that the government can set the

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Speaker 3: direction of travel without a dealt with them. Very clear

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Speaker 3: what we're going to achieve as a government. But it's

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Speaker 3: the police out there doing the hard yards and doing

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Speaker 3: the work, and I want to acknowledge them because they

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Speaker 3: have had a tremendous response for us and they are

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Speaker 3: applying the normal pressure on the gags and the games

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Speaker 3: responsible for a massively disproportionate amount of organized crime and

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Speaker 3: violence in this country. And it's not central than we

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Speaker 3: go after them.

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Speaker 2: Right Yeah, I just like to agree that police do

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Speaker 2: do a great job. But I think what is consuming

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Speaker 2: is the levels of sort of those a class strugs

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Speaker 2: now reaching New Zealands we were always in the past.

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Speaker 2: Scene is a bit of a small markets, but the

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Speaker 2: levels of meetings and our cocaine that we're seeing in

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Speaker 2: our waist of the testing as reaching US evils and

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Speaker 2: that's a reflection of transnational organised crime making its way.

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Speaker 1: Into the Do you have a reason a summation Jenny

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Speaker 1: as to why this is? Because they're part of that story.

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Speaker 1: It said there was some guy selling six k's of

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Speaker 1: coke and New York or something. I said, don't do

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Speaker 1: it there, bring it to New Zealand the profit margin

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Speaker 1: so much. Are we just a bunch of suckers and

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Speaker 1: losers who can't pay enough to get off our faces?

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Speaker 2: Well, the thing is the greater the risk you take

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Speaker 2: and the title of the market. At straight economics, you

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Speaker 2: don't have a higher price point. And so because we're

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Speaker 2: an ocean and we're a long way away and got

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Speaker 2: a big order, there's a higher risk to get it in.

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Speaker 2: But when people do get it in, they make a

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Speaker 2: lot of money. So clearly there's some criminal groups operating

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Speaker 2: internationally that a founding way throughout all the in various ways,

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Speaker 2: because we're seeing it in ice water tea, staying with cocaine,

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Speaker 2: watching the cord highs in New Zealand that we've never

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Speaker 2: seen before.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, just real quick on this one. You guys, Mark

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Speaker 1: the tourist Levy, do you have a view on it?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know obviously as a government you just

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Speaker 1: put it up, But do you have a view whether

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Speaker 1: it's going to stop people coming to the country you

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Speaker 1: exercised about it or not.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it will. I mean I did a

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Speaker 3: scientific study this balling. I asked by twenty three yearld side,

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Speaker 3: who's a true teacher and who works hard for the

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Speaker 3: money that he says he saved to go on a

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Speaker 3: trip to Peru. I said, if you had to pay

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Speaker 3: an extra hundred bucks to go to Peru, will stop

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Speaker 3: me going? He says, no, it's not all So I

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Speaker 3: don't know. We'll have to wait and see. Me's gonna

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Speaker 3: monitor and see how it lands. But I think that

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Speaker 3: you I think that tweetsh he was fantastic on the

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Speaker 3: show this morning. Is a previous tourism ministry laid it

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Speaker 3: out there very clearly, so I thought he was outstt.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a view, Ginny, Well, I do.

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Speaker 2: Agree with Steanness on the fact that it should be

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Speaker 2: used for tourism infrastructure, not to make the difference of

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Speaker 2: what will shorten their budget. So it's not been used

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Speaker 2: there as far as them.

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Speaker 1: All, doesn't matter where it is what it is.

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Speaker 2: There's been no clear commitment on that will go back

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Speaker 2: into tourism infrastructure, and so small parts of New Zealand

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Speaker 2: who get increased tourism if we do. That's a real

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Speaker 2: concern that they're not interesting in extra so I'll see

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Speaker 2: through the city.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you're right, that is quite a loud speaker

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Speaker 1: by part of the as far. There's a story mark

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Speaker 1: this morning and it concerns Karen Shaw, and it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: But the point of the story this morning is the

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Speaker 1: Children's Minister decided against officials advice about the best way

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Speaker 1: to combat serious youth offending. How and the media seems

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Speaker 1: fascinated by these sort of stories. How often do you

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Speaker 1: get advice from officials that you may or may not

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Speaker 1: ignore And how much weight on any given day, on

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Speaker 1: any given subject do you place on officials advice.

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Speaker 3: Well, we'll place a lot of importance on officials advice

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Speaker 3: because it is important that we get that. But we

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Speaker 3: are elected to go in there and make decisions and

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Speaker 3: sometimes we're not going to agree with the officials advice,

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Speaker 3: and we're going to continue to do what we believe in.

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Speaker 3: And that's probably the case of Karen. A classic example

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Speaker 3: is what there is the debate of the narrative at

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Speaker 3: the moment around the initial party clamping down on gangs.

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Speaker 3: And I see there as an article today from the

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Speaker 3: Police Association saying, you know, it's all too hard with

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Speaker 3: the new legislation coming. And I can tell you the

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Speaker 3: Police Association has been talking to me for three years.

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Speaker 3: So it's intolerable risks to their frontline police officers, which

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Speaker 3: I agree with because of the gangs and the violence,

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Speaker 3: the guns and the way that they're operating right and

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Speaker 3: these wires. An example, let me just use buying example.

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Speaker 3: When I was in the police and a dog hander

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Speaker 3: out of Gisbon, I was called to Warra one night

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Speaker 3: because of distressed mother had called the police to say,

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Speaker 3: my daughter has been lured into the mong the mob pad.

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Speaker 3: They're doing a patching ceremony there and she's very concerned

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Speaker 3: that she's been gang raped. She's been what's called blocked.

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Speaker 3: So I sent down to Warra because at that stage

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Speaker 3: they are shorter staff. I picked up the see serge

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Speaker 3: that we went straight up to the pair. I turned

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Speaker 3: the siren on outside the pad to make full Number one,

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Speaker 3: those young women knew that we're arrived. There was help there.

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Speaker 3: And number two obviously to distract the GAG members. Now

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Speaker 3: there was only two of us, there's about forty patch

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Speaker 3: gang members. But you know what, I knew that the

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Speaker 3: Gisbone West were on their way. So the light begay

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Speaker 3: was coming over the hill and we dealt with that.

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Speaker 3: The police have got the resources they've got the ability

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Speaker 3: to be able to deal with the gangs. I completely

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Speaker 3: totally backed them, and this legislation is going to give

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Speaker 3: them the powers that they need to continue to enforce

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Speaker 3: and let the public know that our police are controlling

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Speaker 3: the streets and not the gangs.

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Speaker 1: Advice Jinny as Minister. When you get it, what weight

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Speaker 1: do you place on them?

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Speaker 2: You weigh up and you take it from a range

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Speaker 2: of sources. And that's one of the benefits of being

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Speaker 2: lobbied is that you take officials, but you also talk

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Speaker 2: to financial people or a lot of small businesses, people

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Speaker 2: who have got an interest in that area. So you

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Speaker 2: take a range of advice. But you know, there are

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Speaker 2: some real concerns being raised by police and the Police

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Speaker 2: Association around the ability to enforce, particularly in rural parts

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand. We do see these vacancies in those

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Speaker 2: areas and we do see these high numbers and there

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Speaker 2: is real consume that police won't not only have the

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Speaker 2: man force or the people in there, but also the

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Speaker 2: it the ict that thought came out that if you're

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Speaker 2: going to disperse someone and then find out if that

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Speaker 2: same person is come back and prosecute them, you can

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Speaker 2: make sure that that's the same person if you're going

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Speaker 2: to be scessful in court at prosecuting. And it's a

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Speaker 2: real consumed and we found that through Select Committee that

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Speaker 2: some of those processes are not yet in place, so

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Speaker 2: the government's in a hurry to get this through, but

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Speaker 2: I worry that that's the extent of frontline safety in

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Speaker 2: some parts of New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: I'll right good stuff like well and catch up next week.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate it very much, Jennie Anderson, Mark Mitchell.

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