WEBVTT - Can Rocket Lab launch Neutron before 2026? 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.640 Today we have a very special Shared Lunch episode. I'm 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:09.200 literally at NASA and a very hot Virginia Wallops Islands. 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.600 Behind me, there's Complex three, the brand new launch pad 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.320 for the Neutron rocket that is expected to go to 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.080 space by the end of this year. Today we're catching 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:20.440 up with Sir Peter Beck on Rocket Labs progress. 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.279 I'm a conservative engineer, where you know, when you know 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.400 when Rocketlabs says we're going to do something, it's going 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:25.840 to happen. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.200 As well as Rocket Labs CFO Adam Spice and. 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:31.120 I love growth's That's kind of what attracted me to 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:33.360 Rocket Lab is like, there's no question that the growth 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:34.879 opportunity here are saggering. 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.560 And then also Shawn de Mallow hit of the Neutron program. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.040 You have to be in this constant sense of baranoia 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.720 and your constant have to be on edge, very complex machine, 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:45.479 you know, and it doesn't take much for it to 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.440 go wrong before. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.159 We get started. Here's some important information. 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.440 Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.760 start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.760 We also recommend breeding product disclosure documents before deciding to 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.800 best everything you're about to see and here is current 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:03.880 at the time of recording. 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.160 This is the furthest we've ever traveled for an episode. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.720 Rocket Lamb very kindly invited Cheersys along with a select 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:16.960 group of NASA officials, senators, and even the Governor of Virginia. 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:21.520 The most vibrant space industry complex in America. That is 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:22.840 what we are building. 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.640 To Wallops Island to give investors an inside look at 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.760 the LC three launch pad. After fifteen hours in the 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:31.640 air and four hours on the road. 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:35.800 The day badged, we. 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.080 Made it just in time for the official opening. 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.559 Welcome everybody to LC three today. 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.520 Mark's an extraordinary mastone not just for Rocket Lamb, but 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:46.880 for the future of space access in America. 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:48.360 Three two. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.480 With the opening of Pluche Complex three, we take a 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:55.000 major step board in ensuring resilient and insured space access 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:55.760 for the nation. 0:01:57.920 --> 0:01:58.320 Wow. 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.640 And what better place to chat to Serit Peter Beck 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.880 than from the top of the pad that neutron will launch. 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.200 Let's start with the location, because it's you know, sort 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.760 of difficult place to get to yep, but well not 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.679 the MESA site. So what makes this a great site 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:13.480 for the neutron launch pad in America? 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.280 You've got really two launch sites on the East Coach. 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.880 You've got Cape Canaveral, which everybody is aware of, a 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.840 super famous place, and then you have what opside in 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.320 Virginia where we are now. You know, the Cape is 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.960 an incredible launch site, but it's very busy and you know, 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.160 we're trying to stand up a high cadence launch vehicle, 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.280 so it's much more difficult to come here because as 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.239 you can see, we've had to build so much infrastructure, 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.400 whereas a Cape there's so much existing infrastructure there. But 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.760 the advantage with that is that we're at and you know, 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:44.880 we're you know, we're really you know, pushing for a 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:46.639 high cadence, so we don't have to wait in line 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:47.239 for anybody. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.239 And we're pretty close to Washington d C. Here is 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.239 that important? Has it been close to the Pentagon and 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:52.680 that sort of thing. 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:53.760 So it certainly helps. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.000 I mean, you have great access to to the Senators, 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.000 you know, all of all of the folkes that you 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:00.239 know help help the wheels go round. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:01.760 Can you talk us through some of what goes into 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:03.040 developing our launch site? 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.079 Like I said, it's a huge infrastructure program. 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.320 You can see the diameters and the size of the 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.520 tanks and the pipes and everything. 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.360 It's you know, it's just huge scale. 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.240 And when we're pouring all the foundations for this, we 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.800 had all the concrete trucks in the wider region just 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.760 lined up all down the freeway, just delivering load after 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:20.760 load after load after load for a couple of days. 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.320 So you know, there's a tremendous kind of you know 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:25.760 scale projects. 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.480 Launch pairs. They are expensive, clearly massive projects. Presumably you 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:30.880 don't want a whole lot of them. Is he more 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:32.320 in the pipeline or not? 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:32.600 For now? 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.320 I mean, the one upside is really cool because it 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.600 gives us all that sort of mid inclination stuff. 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:39.720 We can do a dog leg, which is a maneuver 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:41.680 to do a sunynchronous launch. 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:43.920 But you know, at some point in time, you know 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.000 that we'll need to expand into other inclinations. But you know, 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.480 right now we can serve as a tremendous portion of 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:50.480 the market out of this pad. 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.560 One of the things that was announced by the governor 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.360 was that we're expecting a launch by Christmas. 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.600 Before the end of this year. We will all gather 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.200 and we will watch the first Neutron rocket lift off 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.440 from Pad zero D right here together. 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:08.680 And the governments. I think you said that he would 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:10.640 bring the Christmas breath if it was on Christmas Day. 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:11.440 How are you feeling about that? 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.760 Yeah, look, I mean we've we're pushing to get one 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.080 down and out by the end of the year. You know, 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.400 that's that's been the goal. You know, it's a green 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.280 light program schedule and doing a try as hard as 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.480 we can, but you know, the end of the day, 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.280 we always caveat It's a rocket program, right, So we've 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.400 got a couple of really big tests to go. If 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.240 they go well, then we will be in good shape. 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.000 If they don't, then it will be less good shape. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.920 But the reality is, like for a thirty forty year 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.120 launch vehicle program, a few months here and there is 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:39.280 totally irrelevant. 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:41.760 So you know, we're obviously we're all. 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.040 Shooting for a date, but but if it's you know, 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:45.599 we're not going to put something on the pad that's 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.320 not perfect, and we're not going to put something on 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.880 the pad that's not ready to fly for some arbitrary date. 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.040 The life cycle of the program, it's irrelevant. 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.000 And the pace of delivery so far has been on 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:55.480 the right. 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.280 It's insane. It's totally insane. 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.440 I mean, if you look at the most recent rocket developed, 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.120 it was seven billion dollars in like ten years. 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:04.920 Or something like that. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.159 Yeah, and you know, the whole program for Neutron, including 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.159 all this launch side, is three and fifty million dollars 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.799 and we're four years so it's crazy. 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.080 We'll head back to Sir Peter to talk Mars plans shortly, 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:21.560 but first VP of Neutron, sewan To Mellow, tells us 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.960 about the time frame and how he wound up leading Neutron. 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.360 I've been with the company for a while, started around 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.760 eleven years ago. I was working on the previous program, 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.559 which is called Electron, and was really responsible for standing 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.560 up that whole launch organization, right from selecting the early 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.800 launch sites, building those, building the teams that operate the launches, 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.600 and then really yeah, got Electron running from an operational 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.240 and testin mission operation standpoint. In the last three years, 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.279 got asked by Pete to lead the Neutron development program. 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.800 Another opportunity to go build a rocket taking all the 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.640 lessons learned from the past, so I couldn't pass that up. 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.760 Right from the start, the hype around this project's been very, 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:04.600 very large. The ambition for the timeline probably equally as large, 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.800 like like what's what's your true feeling on that, Like 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:09.840 when do you get confident that this is actually going 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.040 into space or and how far away do you think 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.240 that is from? Like sort of being quite solid on 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:15.000 that timeline. 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.719 Yeah, I think the confidence building for a rocket program 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:18.600 is just continuous. 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.560 There's never one specific thing and then you're you. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.400 Know, at least from my point of view, there isn't 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:24.840 just one thing you do when you say it's going 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:26.600 to be good. You have to be in this constant 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.760 sense of paranoia and you constant have to be on 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.800 edge to just keep building confidence, retiring risk. Very complex machine, 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.279 you know, and it doesn't take much for it to 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.000 go wrong. So every part of the way, every test 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.880 we do, every integration activity, just raise that conference and 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:44.920 you just have to constantly keep doing that till you're flying, 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.000 till the second you're flying, and then once you start 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.640 flying too, this conference built in flying over and over again. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:52.800 There are some things you can never detect on the 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:54.640 ground as much as you try to test. So it's 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.960 equally important that once we're flying, we're learning from every 0:06:57.960 --> 0:06:59.479 flight and moving that board as well. 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.520 How many neutrons are there in progress at the moment. 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.680 So right now we're already building flight two, so build 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:06.840 number two is started and in some cases we even 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.239 have parts on the floor for the third neutron be built. 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.120 You know, our goal is to build three next year, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.600 so we're going from one this year, three next year, 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:16.680 five the year after that. 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.080 So it's a you know, pretty steep steep curve. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.480 But we've invested in all the production infrastructure we need, 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.120 so they'll just keep producing. And you know, while the 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:28.960 first one is being built, I expect the second one 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:29.960 to be halfway built. 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.000 And if you were an in Vista in rocket Lab, 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.040 how would you be thinking about this opportunity? 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.120 Immense potential, right I think we're we're just about to 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.760 get started. So we've seen a lot of growth already 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.720 and then we're about to embark on this really you 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:48.640 know next pick phase the company with this multitne rocket 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.280 capable to go to atbit our own space applications. 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.400 There's a lot of you know, exciting future ahead of. 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.680 Us, even while the rockets are taken off and the 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.680 business has to stay grounded so to go over the 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.560 number we have talking to rocket lamps see if anem sprue. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:05.920 Ultimately, you know, even if you go back seven or 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:07.560 eight years ago, wh Pete and I were talking, I mean, 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.880 our our goal was to have a mix of thirty 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.560 percent from launch, seventy percent from space systems, and of 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:18.160 course space systems is representative of selling subsystems, full platforms, software, 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.120 ultimately having our own applications down the road. So I 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:22.640 think if we can, if we can kind of maintain 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.320 the cur mix, we're out. I think that's a comfortable 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.760 spot because launch is great. It's very enabling, it's very sexy. 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:32.200 People love launch, but it's volatile, it's it's lumpy, and 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.360 you know, unlike like space systems, where we can largely 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.040 control our own destiny, because we're so vertically integrated. At 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:39.440 the end of the day, we can't launch a rocket 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.800 until somebody shows up with a payload. Yeah, so you 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:43.560 do all this great work, have a rocket ready on 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.280 the pad, it's frosty, ready to go, and then all 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:46.840 of a sudden, the customer might say, oh, we got 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:48.520 a problem with our radio. We gotta dmate, you gotta 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.839 do so, and we don't get to recognize revenue and 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:52.640 launch for the most part. And two you actually hit 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.640 the button right. So launch is great, but it's it's 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:58.120 less pres fickle exactly. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:08:59.400 It's a great, great term yea. 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.160 And we know business has left these recurring revenues and 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.560 that's it's very very exciting. Hey, we just touched earlier 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.200 on like different growth and obviously these growth and these 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.360 core business is still but one thing you mentioned was 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.079 an acquisition in Munich, so I'd love to hear a 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.000 little bit more about that, and also how much you 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.600 expect acquisition to make up part of the growth story 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:20.120 going forward. 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.560 Yeah, So in general, you know, Pete and I, you 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.199 can never count on acquisitions to drive your growth because 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.240 acquisitions are just a culmination of really fortunate events coming 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.600 together and you can't plan for that. So we just 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.360 we're always looking, well, we know we want this capability 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.120 or this functionality or this exposure to a market, and 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.080 so your baseline plan is always just do it yourself. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.160 And very fortunately, you know, because Pete is such an engineer, 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.679 like he's an engineer's engineer. 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.040 We don't have to buy stuff. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.760 Yeah, so it becomes a much more liberating thing and 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.400 you can be much more choosy when you basically say, hey, 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:57.080 you know Okay, well we need the technology, but you 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.680 know there's probably it'll take us maybe six months longer 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:01.840 and me be take ten million more of P and 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:03.640 L Burned to do it organically. But then we don't 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:05.120 have to spend two hundred million dollars and give it 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.319 to a bunch of vcs and founders. So we tend 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:09.679 to kind of do a mix. If you look at 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:13.520 space systems, some of the initial pieces were in organic 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.439 thre acquisitions, but we've grown those in a lot of 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.480 organic ways as well, Like we've added you know, radios 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.000 for example, and batteries and all these composite A lot 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.320 of these different things were developed in house. The whole 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.840 satellite manufacturing business was grown in house. We didn't buy 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:28.760 a company to do that. So I think we find 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:30.640 that balance. So i'd say will M and A be 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.440 a continuing focus for us? Absolutely. I think when you 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.400 talk about recent deal, so geost is a deal that 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.520 we just closed. In fact, we were there earlier this 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.079 week meeting with a team, great team, and then we're 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.560 hoping to close you know, by the end of the year. 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.520 Before then the year this minoric acquisition which does optical 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.840 terminals to allow Constellation satellites to communicate with each other 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.040 on orbit. And that's a team of around three hundred 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:00.040 people in Munich will give us a really really helpful footprint. 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:00.120 In your up. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.240 Would it be the fifth European business, first European business 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.040 for us, which actually opens up a lot of opportunities 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.120 because if you don't have a European kind of development 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.040 and min manufacturing presence, you get boxed out of a 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.200 lot of EASA program opportunities. In fact, if they have 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.959 any choice, they're going to use European content. So now 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:17.280 we're considered European to a certain extment because of that 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.240 footprint there, which will and that means we can not 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.800 only sell the minoric stuff, but all the other rocket 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.880 labs sweet of stuff as quasi European. 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:29.120 Revenues growing at a pretty incredible pace again at thirty 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.120 six percent this year, I think yep. So when when 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:33.240 do you expect to clear profit? 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.560 In the conversations now, well, there's there's profit and then 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.760 there's cash flow. Yep, And I think in our case, 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.079 they're they're kind of detached at least for now. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:41.640 Neutron. 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.679 Getting Neutron's first launch off is really key to driving 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.640 to getting to adjusted depit a positive, so people kind 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.560 of look at as P and L positivity. 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:50.800 It's going to take a little bit. 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.959 Long because after because we've been having this huge bubble 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:54.480 of R and D spend that's been pushing us in 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.800 a lost position for the last several years because of neutron. 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.720 Once it goes into production, you've then it becomes cost 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.760 to say there's revenue associated with it, So your P 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.120 and L looks much much better. Cash Flow will be 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.719 a little bit different because we continue to invest in 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.240 Like right now as we speak, we're ordering the long 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.880 lead parts for Tales two three. Right we're building out 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.079 the barge which isn't required for the first flight yep. 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.280 So that scaling infrastructure is going to continue to be 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.600 a demand on cash through twenty twenty six. So I'd 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.360 expect cash flow positivity no early than I would say 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.640 early twenty seven. Right, But then that's when P and 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.600 L cash flows start to merge more together because you 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:30.880 will have passed that investment. 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:32.839 It's a infrastructure investment bubble. 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.800 At the moment, I've got Spacic sort of quite publicly 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.000 burning billions. I think in cash to a chief dominance, 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.439 you seem to be taking a different approach, moving towards 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.560 this profitable path fastest certainly on the times you've just 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.360 given me here with small small losses. Is this like, 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.600 how intentional is this? And do you think it's something 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.920 that will set yourselves apart? Hopefully it's very intentional. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:55.080 Right. 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.439 We don't have the luxury of having access to the 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.520 kind of money that Elon can bring to the table, obviously, 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.600 so we have to have a model that gets us 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.960 to profitability and cash flow positivity. I mean, we're we're 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.800 a living, breathing organism that needs to become self sustaining, right, 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.640 so we're kind of moving from that kind of child, 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.599 kind of youngster phase to now kind of becoming a 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.080 self sustaining entity. That's one of the commitments that you 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.080 make when you go public is that you're going to 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.440 make returns for your shareholders, not just on you know, 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.160 and of course share prices can move based on macro conditions, speculation, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.679 all kinds of waves, but ultimately to build an enduring, 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.040 solid kind of financial base, you've got to become profitable. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.480 But we're also making sure that we make the right 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.480 kind of initial investments so that we're teed up for 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.000 that long term growth. Yet you endure some relatively intense 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:40.760 short term pain for the long term gain. And I 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.840 think we've endured quite a bit of pain, you know 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.480 over the last you know, certainly four years as being 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.080 a public company to make sure that we are. 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:47.600 Positioned to grow. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.640 One thing that so pay to see it in twenty 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.640 twenty four was the one thing that has always been 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.160 a throddle on this business is talent. We can navigate 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.320 enough engineers, so it's just interested in what you're thinking 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.040 about staff growth, also for out doing the specific anything 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.720 like Australasian this UIs well. 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.080 Actually New Zealand has been a bit of a secret 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.200 weapon for US because unlike in the US, if you, 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.040 if you know, to work on US programs like Neutron, 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.800 you've got to be a US person right right, whereas 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.679 because of itar but New Zealand's not bound by I TAR. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.040 So actually in New Zealand we can bring talented engineers 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.600 from Canada, from the UK, all over Europe and the 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.440 rest of the world, most of the rest of the 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:27.360 world that we. 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:28.400 Can't do that here in the US. 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.240 So actually New Zealand it's been a been actually a 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:33.920 blessing for us in a lot of ways. I mean, obviously, 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:35.600 to be able to launch as frequent as you can 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.840 have this this ability to kind of lure talent from 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.120 the rest of the world hugely positive for us. So 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.920 I think that, but talent is always going to be, 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.520 you know, kind of a challenge. I mean, we went 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.200 from competing with the likes of you know, Virgin and 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.680 Astra and Relativity and abl and those all got wiped out. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:54.080 So that's become less of a thing. 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.840 And now you've got some other disruptive defense tech companies 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.280 like Anderil for example, are super hot, and so you 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.000 know there's a constant and tug of war for talent. 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.480 But so far, you know, we're growing very fast. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.760 I mean, just to put in context, when I joined 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.600 in May of twenty eighteen, I think there were twenty 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.240 five employees in Huntington Beach. Now we have over eight 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.920 hundred Long Beach. I think we had about one hundred 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.120 people in New Zealand. Now we have about nine hundred 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.920 people in New Zealand. So I don't think talent acquisitions 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:21.040 are our biggest challenge. 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.280 So you're moving into the satellite constellations, you know, this 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.120 is another place you'll be competing with space, so you know, 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:27.560 how much room do you think there is for that? 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.880 So constellations it's a broad umbrella, right, So it's basically 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.040 we think of it an application. So what are the 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:34.920 functions that are going to be done from space that 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.080 you know delivering services and data? So you can think 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.240 it'll range from things that are very well known, like if, 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.600 for example, you know you've got things like startling out 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.480 delivering broadband to consumers. Right, you have direct to mobile 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:50.880 right where people now directly connecting their cell phones to 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:55.440 the from space based constellation assets. You have Earth observation, 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.120 like taking images for various purposes, whether that's for weather 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.080 or for national security, or for commercial applications. So there 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.000 are many, many, many dozens of these vertical applications from space, 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:11.360 and so you know, competing with SpaceX, the question would be, well, 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.040 are we really going to develop a consolation to do 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.080 fixed broadband to the consumer masses? I don't know, hard 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.320 to say, right, I think we're we're not going to 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.280 get into an application where we're going to be at 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.720 such a huge capital disadvantage. And if you look at 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.240 right now like that that fixed broadband is really you've 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.680 got you've got Elon, and you've got Kuyper coming in, right, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.240 So you've got Starlink and Kuiper. So we've got to 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.040 be careful, Like we've always been very careful about how 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.240 we attack a market. And you know, do you want 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.320 to go head on with somebody who's got unlimited capital? 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.560 And you know, sometimes you do if you really think 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.680 your technology is that differentiated. But you got there's a 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.000 whole bunch of factors that go in. So will we 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.880 have an application? I believe we'll have an application, you know, 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.440 in focus in the not too distant future. But we're 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.400 gonna have to be very cognitive. What's real practical? Because 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.720 back to your point of profitability, right, Like I and 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.040 I'm Pete and I always had this little bit of 0:16:58.080 --> 0:16:59.880 a tug of war from time to time about you know, 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.159 healthy ten Yeah, healthy tension about like leaning forward to 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.240 invest for the future versus how do we get to 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:07.240 profitability sooner? 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:07.640 Right? 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.840