1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Mark Lundy, speaking of crime, been released from prison back 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: among us. He spent twenty three years, of course, with 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: the murder of his wife and daughter. Current suppression orders 4 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: mean it can't be revealed where he will live now. 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: The question being asked, of course, as do we have 6 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: a right to know? 7 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 2: Now? 8 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: The criminal lawyer Steve Cullen is back well as Steve, 9 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: very good morning to you. 10 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 2: Good morning. 11 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: More very clear on this or is it case by case? 12 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: No, it is very clear. They do not release where 13 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 2: people are going to be paroled too, with their addresses 14 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: will be because obviously they want to try and integrate 15 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: them back into the community. And if we run the 16 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: resk of vigilante groups, media, throngs all and all, they've 17 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: decided that it's far save for if we just simply 18 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: released these people and try and slip them back to 19 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: the community as best we can. 20 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: Very difficult, anyway, isn't it. In a country the size 21 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 1: of New Zealand at five million people. I think if 22 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: you put some energy into it, you could probably find 23 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: it anyway, couldn't you. 24 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: Well, absolutely right. We're a small country with a small population. 25 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: And having said that, I side on this way. I 26 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: asked about the cases. So Lundy is convicted of a 27 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: murder of his wife and daughter, he's not a danger 28 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: to the wider community. That would be different to the 29 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: bloke who is a serial killer or a sex offender 30 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: who ran his time and is not entirely convinced the 31 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: parole boarder you shouldn't be behind bars forever. 32 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 2: Do you see the difference, Yes, I do see the distinction. 33 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: The prob of course makes the determination with somebody suitable 34 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: for release or not, but certainly the public interest and 35 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 2: somebody who's more likely to be a predator on as 36 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 2: fellow citizens would be somewhat higher. 37 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: What's the financials running? There's no answer to this question. 38 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: But a guy's been in jail for twenty three years, 39 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: what's he doing? Is he going out to get a 40 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: job and doing well with the rest of his life? 41 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:37,919 Speaker 1: Who is going to be on the benefit forever? 42 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: Oh, well, there's hope. They seek a placement, They talk 43 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 2: to people who are going to be there to support them, 44 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: they have some sort of network, they'll ever residents are 45 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: going to inhabit. Hopefully there's some sort of employment plan. 46 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: They've been working towards that, and then they slowly slip 47 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: them often they have guided release, monitored release at the 48 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: beginning to see how well they go. They've already been 49 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: entering the community. There's determined that that's working. So then 50 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: they say, all right, now, let's see if we can 51 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: take the next step of having you fully reintegrated. 52 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: And some good stuff might appreciate it. Steve Callen, criminal lawyer. 53 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: Funnily enough, I was watching an interview with Barry Hearn 54 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 1: who runs snooker globally. Eddie Hearn is the boxing guy. 55 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: Barry's his dad and runs darts and snooker. Anyway, I 56 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: was talking about the bloke who won the World championship, 57 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: who of course was done for match fixing. There were 58 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: about ten Chinese done for match fixing and a betting 59 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: scandal and stuff like that. And he was asked whether 60 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: or not this is right that a guy who's a 61 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: cheat and a convicted cheat and was found cheating only 62 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: got banned for two years. And he's very much of 63 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: the let's move forward. You can't look in the rearview mirror. 64 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: You can't punish somebody if the punishment is the punishment. 65 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: You can't keep looking back forever. And Lundy served his 66 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: time and we either have the system or we don't. 67 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: And you can't punish a bloke after twenty three years 68 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: and go, I wonder where he lives. Oh, I don't 69 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: really want him in the community. I mean. Or if 70 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: you don't like that, then you change the entire system. 71 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: And I don't see that we're changing the entire system, 72 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: are we? 73 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: For more from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 74 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 2: news Talks at B from six am weekdays, or follow 75 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.