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Speaker 1: We got action. We've got an action plan of sorts

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Speaker 1: given next year it is supposed to be the year we

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Speaker 1: arrive as a smoke free country. So here's what we

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Speaker 1: got yesterday. Get smokers to try and quit, give it

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Speaker 1: another try if it's previously failed, and prove access to

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Speaker 1: quit smoking providers, provide effective services and products, stop people

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Speaker 1: from smoking in the first place. Anyway, that's all the

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Speaker 1: work of Associate Health Minister Casey Costello, who's with us.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning mine.

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Speaker 1: The very general sense, is there too much reliance in

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Speaker 1: this whole smoke free thing? Is there too much reliance

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Speaker 1: on the government wiping our bum and solving all our

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Speaker 1: problems or not? Do you think?

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Speaker 2: I think that's what we've tried to do is step

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Speaker 2: it back to some practical application to those who want

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Speaker 2: to quit, and informing people of the services that are

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Speaker 2: available and leading people rather than the prohibitionist approach that

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Speaker 2: we had before.

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Speaker 1: Because you're getting killed by the wonks who say you're

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Speaker 1: not doing enough. How much more can you do if

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Speaker 1: a person wants to smoke? What literally short of tying

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Speaker 1: them up and locking them in a room, can you do? Well?

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Speaker 2: I think that's the perspective is that smoke free target

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Speaker 2: would always just to get below five percent, recognizing that

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Speaker 2: there will always be those that are long term addictive

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Speaker 2: smokers that have made their choices and want to but

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Speaker 2: about presenting support that those that we think need to

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Speaker 2: know there's some opportunity to help if they need it,

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Speaker 2: and connecting them with those services.

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Speaker 1: And so you would argue, as we sit here this morning,

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Speaker 1: if you are a person who wants to look at

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Speaker 1: giving up smoking, there is plenty there to help you

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Speaker 1: along the way, and you've done what you can, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And that was where I focused on and I've said

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Speaker 2: all the way along as the frontline workers that are

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Speaker 2: delivering quick smoking services knew what was working, knew what

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Speaker 2: needed to be done. And there's a lot of people

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Speaker 2: who've tried to quit and just failed and kind of

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Speaker 2: given up like they want to, but that's got them

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Speaker 2: in their grips. So what we're saying is like there

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Speaker 2: is you know, we're going to look at ecomers and

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Speaker 2: vacing statu kits and things like that. They will give

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Speaker 2: them that one more chance to just given another crack,

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Speaker 2: and there's real benefits to it.

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Speaker 1: If you what you did walk away from was what

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Speaker 1: the British are doing right now, and that is the

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Speaker 1: age limit thing. In other words, you will not be

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Speaker 1: able to add a certain birth date. Over time, they

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Speaker 1: will solve that problem. Do you regret walking away from that?

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Speaker 1: Could that long term have been something more effective than

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Speaker 1: what you've actually done.

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Speaker 2: No, And that was what lost in this conversation. You know,

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Speaker 2: the Late Health Survey, which was measuring up to thirty

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Speaker 2: Jane fifteen to seventeen year olds less than one percent smoking,

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Speaker 2: under twenty four year olds four point two percent smoking.

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Speaker 2: So we already have, through what we've been doing, a

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Speaker 2: generation that isn't smoking, and we knew that.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's true the whole that's true. But the number

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Speaker 1: you cite is smoking, not vaping. Vaping's replaced smoking, as

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Speaker 1: you well know. Are we going to be talking about

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Speaker 1: this in ten years and having a vape free community

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Speaker 1: by twenty thirty five or forty five or whatever.

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Speaker 2: And this is where this issue's got conflated. You know,

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Speaker 2: the Loyal College of position that vaping is about five

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Speaker 2: percent of the level of harm of smoking, considerably less,

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Speaker 2: not just a little bit less, considerably less. Nicotine addiction

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Speaker 2: is a problem, and we need to work through that.

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Speaker 2: But from a harm perspective, this thing that was killing people,

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Speaker 2: it's such high rates and such an adverse health. A

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Speaker 2: pet vaping does not present that level of risk, and

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Speaker 2: that was the proportional discussion around risk proportion.

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Speaker 1: I followed you with a great deal of interest in

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Speaker 1: the house, particularly at question time. You've taken a tremendous

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Speaker 1: amount of heat from the opposition. How has that been

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Speaker 1: as an experience as a new MP slash minister?

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Speaker 2: Well, I kind of always like in the house to

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Speaker 2: being giving evidence when you're in the police. You know,

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Speaker 2: you know your facts, you stick to your point. You Yes,

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Speaker 2: they'll try and rastle you. But I had never done

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Speaker 2: anything wrong in this space. I knew that. And eventually

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Speaker 2: it was disappointing because of all the things that are

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Speaker 2: going on and all the portfolios I've got, this was

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Speaker 2: just a tiny portion of work, and yet sort of

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Speaker 2: got you know, I think I got my first question

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Speaker 2: that wasn't related to smoking after a year, you know,

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Speaker 2: in the house, and I've got customs serious or when

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Speaker 2: I was crime, I've got, you know, all the other

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Speaker 2: health portfolios and this one kind of distracted everybody. But

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, it's come into a good place

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Speaker 2: and you just navigate the storm.

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Speaker 1: Approject time. Associate Health Minister Casey Costello for more from

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Speaker 1: the Mic Asking Breakfast, Listen live to news talks it'd

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