Speaker 1: Jord It.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Sheared Lunch. My name is Laighton Robertson, the
Speaker 2: co founder and co CEO at Sheass. Today I'm joined
Speaker 2: by Luke Kemmys, who was from the Next Advisory and
Speaker 2: from the podcast Keep the Change, and we're going to
Speaker 2: be speaking about the top five barriers that he hears
Speaker 2: from his listeners on growing wealth. But before we get started,
Speaker 2: here's some important information.
Speaker 3: Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you
Speaker 3: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor.
Speaker 3: We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest.
Speaker 3: Everything you're about to see and here is current at
Speaker 3: the time of recording.
Speaker 2: So we've got Luke awesome to catch up again. Luke,
Speaker 2: so thanks so much for joining us today. Look, you're
Speaker 2: a super busy guy.
Speaker 1: You've got to keep the change.
Speaker 2: You've got boys get paid. A little bit of accounting
Speaker 2: on the side, I hear. I'd love to hear just
Speaker 2: a little bit about you and how you came to
Speaker 2: be Luke Kemmys and the views and the education that
Speaker 2: you'll bring to the world.
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, nice mate.
Speaker 5: Yeah, accounting is my day job as such, nine to
Speaker 5: five and I got into the industry. I liked business
Speaker 5: at university. I think I did my first sort of
Speaker 5: introduction to shares when I was sixth form via an
Speaker 5: economics teacher who taught us about buying a share and
Speaker 5: then we're going to track it over the school term
Speaker 5: and stuff. So I think that's what intrigued me about investing.
Speaker 1: Did you actually buy a share?
Speaker 5: Not physically. I think we did some sort of website
Speaker 5: you could go to. I think maybe even like the
Speaker 5: Zidex had some sort of like dummy type thing that
Speaker 5: you could log in to learn from, but I can't remember.
Speaker 5: I feel like I might have purchased infotel or something
Speaker 5: like that, but that would have done it right, yeah,
Speaker 5: if I held it. But we'll get to that, mate,
Speaker 5: But that probably yeah led to me believing that maybe
Speaker 5: investing was a bit like gambling, where you kind of
Speaker 5: put it in and the hope you get it out
Speaker 5: in the coming weeks, but it's not necessarily how it works.
Speaker 5: And I've had a couple of those lessons throughout my
Speaker 5: life too. But yeah, so chart to account it now.
Speaker 5: I have my own accounting practice, And then often I
Speaker 5: would go home to my parents and talk about money
Speaker 5: in finance, and we'll come back to sort of this
Speaker 5: conversation around how we have a lack of financial education
Speaker 5: in New Zealand. And so they were sort of saying,
Speaker 5: one day, why don't you do something about it? You know,
Speaker 5: I stopped talking about it. So I started writing a
Speaker 5: money mail, which is basically a Friday email to go
Speaker 5: out to help people understand more about money and texts
Speaker 5: and some of the things that I was seeing in
Speaker 5: my day job. And that then started to grow, and
Speaker 5: I knew that podcasting was probably the platform that was
Speaker 5: sort of in vogue and what people really want.
Speaker 4: To consume on.
Speaker 5: So I started doing podcasts with an audio version and
Speaker 5: that's growing and turned into Keep the Change Today that
Speaker 5: a lot of people listen to, but people read as well.
Speaker 5: And then the social content that wraps around, you know,
Speaker 5: everything we do in life these days, whether it's growing
Speaker 5: a business or trying to get information in front of people.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I'm into year five of Keep the Change
Speaker 5: Now and I'm into year eight of Next Advisory.
Speaker 2: Wow eight years, right, So let's you're right into it. Congratulations.
Speaker 2: I tell the team around she is his often. Actually,
Speaker 2: it's that your podcasts and your type of education is
Speaker 2: one that I personally resonate with a lot. So I'm
Speaker 2: I'm I've been excited to have this conversation, and you're
Speaker 2: super passionate about financial literacy. And it's obviously something that
Speaker 2: we believe in shares Is and we invest in heavily
Speaker 2: as well. It's absolutely critical to our business model. But
Speaker 2: what I'd like to know is, like, of the top
Speaker 2: five barriers that stop people from creating wealth, what are
Speaker 2: they for you?
Speaker 1: And you know, give us the first one, all right?
Speaker 5: So I was trying to sort of distill it into
Speaker 5: some of the common themes that I see, and I
Speaker 5: think you know one of them is that people, to
Speaker 5: start with, you know, don't have goals. And as much
Speaker 5: as I said before, invest for options people when they'll
Speaker 5: ask me money questions, which I'm not going to answer
Speaker 5: because I'm not a financial advisor, but I'm like, why
Speaker 5: don't you just take action that's going to get you
Speaker 5: closer to your goals? And so many times people won't respond,
Speaker 5: or that you can tell that they haven't actually thought
Speaker 5: about why they're doing what they need to be doing,
Speaker 5: or you know, what it is that they need to
Speaker 5: be doing, because they don't really know where they're going,
Speaker 5: and they've just been drifting. But I see it in
Speaker 5: business as well, and it's often why people come to
Speaker 5: us because they're trying to figure out where is it
Speaker 5: that they're trying to go and what is it that
Speaker 5: they're trying to achieve. And it's actually a really exciting
Speaker 5: exercise to do is figure out, Okay, you know, what
Speaker 5: are these things and it could be having a child,
Speaker 5: for instance, So then your goals are going to be Okay,
Speaker 5: well let's get ourselves ready for that. What are we
Speaker 5: going to need to buy? You know, what are those
Speaker 5: things going to cost? And all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 5: And then okay, well we set up an investment account
Speaker 5: for them. Do we agree with that as a couple,
Speaker 5: or do we want to make it hard for them
Speaker 5: or whatever? And you start to then get to have
Speaker 5: more of those conversations and then direct your money or
Speaker 5: your investments towards that. So I think to start with,
Speaker 5: you know, not knowing yourself or your goals. If you
Speaker 5: don't do that work, then it makes it tricky to
Speaker 5: kind of get on the right train and actually get
Speaker 5: moving in the right direction.
Speaker 2: I see a lot of that, and this was something
Speaker 2: I've always struggled with in business, and it surprises a
Speaker 2: lot of people given my background now, But I've always
Speaker 2: struggled with goals setting. But what I haven't struggle with
Speaker 2: is the idea that I will have goals and things
Speaker 2: I want to do in the future, which is something
Speaker 2: you touched on earlier around flexibility. So my early investing
Speaker 2: I started this investment club when I was seventeen, was
Speaker 2: purely because I knew that at some point in the
Speaker 2: future I would want to have money.
Speaker 1: Available, and I don't think I had any idea on
Speaker 1: what that was for.
Speaker 2: But like, I think you can overstress, can't you like
Speaker 2: the specifics of that sometimes, Like it's fine not to
Speaker 2: know necessarily that you want, but you should also be
Speaker 2: aware that you probably will want something.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I paid eleven bucks in
Speaker 5: an uber to get down here for this, But years
Speaker 5: ago I would never have paid that because I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 5: you know, want to waste the money. I could just
Speaker 5: walk down and all that sort of stuff, But I
Speaker 5: needed to use the time, and I needed to take
Speaker 5: a phone call, and I needed to do like a
Speaker 5: little bit of prep for some other things that I've
Speaker 5: got coming up. So I look at it differently, and
Speaker 5: I think, actually that twelve dollars uber is an investment
Speaker 5: into myself because I can now get that time back
Speaker 5: rather than getting on a scooter and going down Queen
Speaker 5: Street and potentially bumping into someone or dropping my phone
Speaker 5: or getting to the endpoint and still being stressed. So
Speaker 5: you know, once you're a little bit clear around, you
Speaker 5: know what you're doing, why you're doing these things, and
Speaker 5: then what you need money for, it then makes it
Speaker 5: actually a little bit easier to deploy that. But if
Speaker 5: you know, if you told me at one stage or
Speaker 5: you'll pay twelve bucks to go and an uber to
Speaker 5: do that, I would be like, there's no way that
Speaker 5: I'm going to spend that.
Speaker 4: What a waste of money. Now I see it as
Speaker 4: an investment into my goals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's another good example of where I think people
Speaker 2: if they're doing that on behalf of the business, get
Speaker 2: that that's good use of money. Yeah, but on behalf
Speaker 2: themselves is a bit harder. That's a fantastic first one.
Speaker 2: What about the second?
Speaker 5: I think just not getting started at all and sort
Speaker 5: of being stuck at that, Oh maybe next year or
Speaker 5: I'll wait toill have cleared my credit card, or like
Speaker 5: there's always something that's going to get in the way.
Speaker 5: And I think if we don't just get started, then
Speaker 5: we don't give ourselves the opportunity to get closer to
Speaker 5: an ability to build a habit doing some of these things.
Speaker 5: Or it could be you know, someone said to me recently,
Speaker 5: I'm a student, so I don't have any money to invest.
Speaker 5: I'm like, well, mate, like dollar, you know, invest five
Speaker 5: dollars just to learn the process, just to get closer
Speaker 5: to it, to get around the right information, to understand
Speaker 5: what information they need to figure out what would you
Speaker 5: put it into? Because if you always believe you don't
Speaker 5: have enough money, like when do you sit down and
Speaker 5: have the conversation with yourself and go, oh, I've got
Speaker 5: a lot of money. Now all start investing. Because then
Speaker 5: what I see people do is they let's say inherent
Speaker 5: money or they get a bit of money and they're like, right,
Speaker 5: I'm going to start investing, But what do I do?
Speaker 5: So you probably could have learned what to do in
Speaker 5: the meantime, or you know, now they've got to go
Speaker 5: through the fear mode of oh, I'm too scared to invest.
Speaker 5: Should I Is it a good idea, but if they
Speaker 5: had maybe educated themselves along that journey, then it might
Speaker 5: be easier once they get to that point of having
Speaker 5: the money.
Speaker 2: One of the quotes I like to give anyone it
Speaker 2: shares is or listen to me. But the exponential part
Speaker 2: of the time folly of money equation, which for those
Speaker 2: who don't know that equation, it's worth a google. But
Speaker 2: it's basically just explaining compound interest. But literally the exponential
Speaker 2: or to the power of is time, and time is
Speaker 2: the most influential thing that you can do with your money.
Speaker 2: So I ran this interesting test. We've got kids accounts
Speaker 2: for a while. We we have kids, so it was
Speaker 2: very important to us that we gave them that opportunity.
Speaker 2: But what we started doing was we put five dollars
Speaker 2: a week away into our kids accounts because the maths
Speaker 2: I did was that that would mean they never had
Speaker 2: to worry about retirement if they and hopefully I'll be
Speaker 2: able to convince them to do it as well once
Speaker 2: they turn eighteen or whatever age you hand the portfolio,
Speaker 2: but not inflation adjust at all, just literally, in real terms,
Speaker 2: five dollars until they are sixty five, and they won't
Speaker 2: need anything else in their life for retirement, so just
Speaker 2: really trying to teach those habits over time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I started investing for my nephew because I don't
Speaker 5: have kids yet, and I thought, Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 5: build a fund so that as he gets older, I
Speaker 5: can start teaching him around investing and there may be
Speaker 5: you know what he could put some money into, or
Speaker 5: maybe some different options around schooling or starting a business
Speaker 5: or you know, like whatever it could be.
Speaker 1: That's that's an awesome secument. What about the third.
Speaker 5: I've said here, like aiming for perfect? So I kind
Speaker 5: of get the messages of hey, what's the best platform
Speaker 5: to use? I'm like, just one that's going to get
Speaker 5: you in the game? Oh, which one is it?
Speaker 4: Like, I don't know, Like I don't go around studying
Speaker 4: the best.
Speaker 5: I've never been one of those people, so I don't
Speaker 5: get the whole sort of the perfect or what's the
Speaker 5: perfect time or that the.
Speaker 4: Best platform and all that stuff.
Speaker 5: And I kind of joke about it, you know, and
Speaker 5: I say, oh, look, well I'm going to get rid
Speaker 5: of the internet at my at my apartment now because
Speaker 5: you know, until I know what the best internet provider is,
Speaker 5: I just don't think there's any point in me having
Speaker 5: the internet? You know you, what are you doing? Your dickhead,
Speaker 5: Like that's ridiculous. But when it's investing, I don't think
Speaker 5: it's actually what people are saying. I think they're saying, Look,
Speaker 5: I'm pretty scared to do this, so I'm going to
Speaker 5: wait for.
Speaker 4: The perfect time, the best platform.
Speaker 5: I'm going to research you know what about their fees
Speaker 5: and like all of this stuff, and that's look, it's
Speaker 5: all important stuff to look into. But I kind of think,
Speaker 5: what wouldn't you get started first? And like, wouldn't you
Speaker 5: get the internet provider first? And someone comes around and goes, oh,
Speaker 5: you have them for the internet? Do you know you
Speaker 5: can actually switch easy and that one's a lot cheaper.
Speaker 5: Oh okay, but like, at least you've got the internet,
Speaker 5: you've got the Wi Fi going, you've got access to learning.
Speaker 5: But I think when you get yourself stuck at that
Speaker 5: kind of I need everything to be perfect, it's a
Speaker 5: really tough place to live because what happens if you
Speaker 5: got the perfect platform and the perfect time to invest,
Speaker 5: and then you know it just it changes. And you
Speaker 5: know this timing for me has always been something that
Speaker 5: I've kind of had to cop because you know, I
Speaker 5: made some really poor financial decisions throughout my life when
Speaker 5: you know, I should have known better, and I could
Speaker 5: have invested into zero, I could have invested in more
Speaker 5: into a two milk. And I've got all these stories
Speaker 5: that I share and keep the change and stuff. But
Speaker 5: then I finally start getting myself financially sweet again, and
Speaker 5: I'm like, right, mate, you know the next step is
Speaker 5: to is to start investing. So Bang deploys some capital
Speaker 5: into the market, and it's like, you know, three months
Speaker 5: before the pandemic starts. I'm like, of course it is,
Speaker 5: you know, seriously, But I'm like, well, I just have
Speaker 5: to go through it, you know. But you're never going
Speaker 5: to perfect it. You're never going to time it. But
Speaker 5: I think when you get stuck in the analysis paralysis
Speaker 5: or waiting for the perfect time or the perfect platform,
Speaker 5: you just have to have a chat with yourself and
Speaker 5: go how realistic is this and how long is it
Speaker 5: going to hold me back from moving forward in my life?
Speaker 2: And then there's like a second confidence thing on this
Speaker 2: getting started, which is something I hear a huge amount,
Speaker 2: including from some of the people who work at Cheesy sometimes,
Speaker 2: which is like, oh, I'll ask about investing, like do
Speaker 2: you invest, And I'm very proud that most people now
Speaker 2: say yes, I do. Like that's an epic change I
Speaker 2: think over the last sort of eight years or so.
Speaker 2: But after that, though, like, but I don't really know
Speaker 2: what I'm doing. I just put some money in every
Speaker 2: week into these funds and I ort to invest it.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, you know exactly what you're doing, Like,
Speaker 2: there is actually a great strategy and it's the one
Speaker 2: you've chosen. And I'm like, I'm excited for that next
Speaker 2: bit of ownership, which is not only have people got
Speaker 2: past this getting started hurdle, they're also in the confidence
Speaker 2: part of like, yes, I'm an in vesta and yes
Speaker 2: I know what I'm doing. I dollar cost average and
Speaker 2: I do that every week and it's the way that
Speaker 2: my money works best for me. So that's another epic one.
Speaker 2: Watch one way up to here are we up to
Speaker 2: number four?
Speaker 5: Four?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: So this one, I guess it's kind of analysis paralys
Speaker 5: paralysis slash noise and it kind of combines with that
Speaker 5: through one I think. But then I bump into these
Speaker 5: people that like know everything, and I'm like, wow, this
Speaker 5: person is so educated and like, how the hell do
Speaker 5: they know all this information? And then I'll ask them, Okay,
Speaker 5: so what are you doing of this information?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 5: No, nothing, Well what's the point of having you know
Speaker 5: all of this information? So I think some people go
Speaker 5: and collect all the data and they do analyze all
Speaker 5: of the platforms and all the different options and the
Speaker 5: different funds, and there's this one hedged against the dollar
Speaker 5: and this one backed by gold, and like all of
Speaker 5: this stuff, and they know it all, but they still
Speaker 5: haven't taken any action. You kind of think, what, like,
Speaker 5: why have you made your life so hard? So I think,
Speaker 5: you know, sometimes those sorts of people they gravitate towards
Speaker 5: having everything before getting started. But again, it doesn't mean
Speaker 5: that they may make the right decisions because they still
Speaker 5: can't bring themselves to letting go of the cash.
Speaker 2: To repeat the four we've got so far as I
Speaker 2: written down, So no goals or not knowing yourself and
Speaker 2: then not getting started or thinking it won't make a
Speaker 2: difference if you do aiming for perfect and then analysis paralysis,
Speaker 2: so overthinking it and doing too much work, but also
Speaker 2: not getting started.
Speaker 1: So what's the fifth?
Speaker 5: I think the fifth is, you know, fear of losing money,
Speaker 5: and I think if we're realistic, for a lot of us,
Speaker 5: we're scared, right, we are really freaking out that our
Speaker 5: money is going to go backwards. And we are the
Speaker 5: people who got it wrong, who timed it wrong, who
Speaker 5: you know, have to tell people that my investments have
Speaker 5: gone backwards.
Speaker 4: And like you say, people are probably.
Speaker 5: Logging into their accounts and seeing that, and it's I
Speaker 5: think I've read somewhere that you know, your human sees
Speaker 5: the negative and it feels way worse than the positive. Right,
Speaker 5: So if we're down ten percent, that's going to be
Speaker 5: magnified compared to if we're up ten percent. So we're
Speaker 5: probably going to be logging back in the next day like,
Speaker 5: oh we're down to eleven.
Speaker 4: But you know, does it really matter?
Speaker 5: And if you're keeping yourself in the market, time in
Speaker 5: the market, and you're not trying to time it, then
Speaker 5: you're going to have to accept that there will be
Speaker 5: ups and downs, just like me buying just before we
Speaker 5: go into a pandemic. And you know, I've got countless
Speaker 5: stories about it. But you know, to think that you're
Speaker 5: gonna ever invest or to get away with spending money
Speaker 5: in your life and not get something go wrong, it's
Speaker 5: probably a little bit silly, and I think what's hard
Speaker 5: And you know, what's something I was going to touch
Speaker 5: on earlier for you guys, mate, is that you're competing
Speaker 5: in a world of consumerism with so many people can
Speaker 5: make sense of the best credit card, the best buy now,
Speaker 5: pay later, you know, all of that stuff, and you know,
Speaker 5: wait till this month to get this deal, and what
Speaker 5: this place has got a better deal, and like we
Speaker 5: can figure all that out, but as soon as it
Speaker 5: comes and we're going to get some thing in return
Speaker 5: quickly that we probably won't even have by the next
Speaker 5: year and it might end up in the bin or
Speaker 5: we don't use it, and the dopamine rushes is let go.
Speaker 5: But when it comes to investing, it's like, oh should
Speaker 5: I do that?
Speaker 4: Is that a good idea?
Speaker 5: When really you know there's a chance that that's actually
Speaker 5: going to turn into something in the future.
Speaker 2: One of the examples we often use it shares is
Speaker 2: like New Zealanders love investment property. If we can move
Speaker 2: the knowledge that we have from there, which is now
Speaker 2: inherent I think as a country, into capital or equities
Speaker 2: in capital markets, then that could serve us very well
Speaker 2: and what I mean by that is like, if someone
Speaker 2: buys a house first, there's no little ticker on the
Speaker 2: letterbox that says, hey, you're up one percent today and
Speaker 2: down one percent or anything, So you don't arrive at
Speaker 2: it every day thinking you need to check what that is,
Speaker 2: or if you do check on one of the websites.
Speaker 2: It doesn't really emotionally affect you because you know that
Speaker 2: a sealer or a buyer has to want a certain price.
Speaker 1: You know that if you sell it tomorrow.
Speaker 2: You'll probably lose money on real estate fees and all
Speaker 2: of these other things, and you know if you hold
Speaker 2: it for a long time, you'll probably do very well
Speaker 2: out of it.
Speaker 1: So, like, I think we can.
Speaker 2: Just take those lessons because it's exactly the same in companies,
Speaker 2: and ultimately, we live in a world.
Speaker 1: Where growth is required.
Speaker 2: It's baked into our system a certain amount of inflation,
Speaker 2: and to achieve that we need to do certain things.
Speaker 2: And companies, Like, one of my favorite things to remind
Speaker 2: people is that companies pay the mortgage.
Speaker 1: The mortgage doesn't pay the company.
Speaker 2: So like, the more we can get into that in
Speaker 2: that mindset, then like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: if the market as a whole is not worth anything
Speaker 2: into the future, then money is not a thing as
Speaker 2: we know it now, so it doesn't matter, you know it.
Speaker 2: Actually it's engineered to perform the.
Speaker 4: Like very quickly on that, you know.
Speaker 5: I think that was one of the unlocks for me
Speaker 5: as I started building up enough money that I got
Speaker 5: a return on it, and I had this realization of, well,
Speaker 5: this company's paid for my gym membership, and then I
Speaker 5: started to go deeper. O. Okay, if I continue to invest,
Speaker 5: and if I continue to get returns, whether it be
Speaker 5: dividends or some forms of income, those investments, they're going
Speaker 5: to subsidize my rent. So then do I care so
Speaker 5: much about this whole? Like you're posing someone else's mortgage.
Speaker 5: And that's just how I made sense of it. And
Speaker 5: I know, you know, saying that people are going to
Speaker 5: derail this whole podcast because now they have to get
Speaker 5: triable about whether they love properly or not. Chill out,
Speaker 5: you know, like everyone's finding their own path and we're
Speaker 5: so defensive around our strategies. But you know, when you
Speaker 5: start to see a return from your investments and even
Speaker 5: have you know, some of your life costs subsidized, it
Speaker 5: really does unlock a different way to look at investing.
Speaker 1: I've never thought about that way of thinking. I will
Speaker 1: have to have a look.
Speaker 2: I love these ideas and where you're like, you know,
Speaker 2: you're training yourself to be motivated into something. I haven't
Speaker 2: thought about what's paying my membership or what I might
Speaker 2: have to try to find a nice gym company or
Speaker 2: health company or something's doing that.
Speaker 1: It's a great idea.
Speaker 2: Anyway, those are five awesome tips and I think you know,
Speaker 2: huge alignment on those. I will ask you one more question,
Speaker 2: how do you think the Warriors go next season without
Speaker 2: Shawn Johnson?
Speaker 4: What a shame, mate, What a guy?
Speaker 5: Like, what a you know, what an investment he's made
Speaker 5: to the club and to rugby league in this country.
Speaker 5: And you know, it's another good example of how now
Speaker 5: it's easy to look back and be like, what a
Speaker 5: difference he made. So yeah, shout out to Seawn Janson
Speaker 5: out there. But anyway, mate, top four for sure, top
Speaker 5: four is surely surely.
Speaker 2: I know I will make the trip to Australia. I
Speaker 2: can make the Grand Final. That's one of the one
Speaker 2: of the things I will splo john That's one of
Speaker 2: those future.
Speaker 1: Goals that I'm preparing for one day.
Speaker 5: It's a great I've been to the Warrior's Grand Final Action.
Speaker 5: I've been to the last couple as well. It's an
Speaker 5: amazing experience.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much for joining us, Luke, and thanks
Speaker 2: everyone for tuning in. You can watch Shared Lunch on YouTube,
Speaker 2: or follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you
Speaker 2: get your podcasts. Leave us a rating and a comment
Speaker 2: about what you'd like to hear about next, and enjoy
Speaker 2: the rest of your week.