1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:11,973 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B. 2 00:00:12,373 --> 00:00:17,013 Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:19,293 --> 00:00:22,173 Speaker 2: Straight down the Middle, scot. 4 00:00:23,813 --> 00:00:24,813 Speaker 3: Try the. 5 00:00:28,493 --> 00:00:33,213 Speaker 1: Bucket, Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct 6 00:00:33,333 --> 00:00:37,053 Speaker 1: with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB. 7 00:00:37,493 --> 00:00:40,613 Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Folklives Solutions, lifting you 8 00:00:40,653 --> 00:00:44,373 Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Elligant Smith News Talks, 9 00:00:44,373 --> 00:00:48,453 Speaker 2: heb Rugby commentator with me a voice of Canterbury Rugby, 10 00:00:48,613 --> 00:00:51,893 Speaker 2: Nick Bewley. We've gone all Canterbury this week. Lilliam's gone 11 00:00:51,933 --> 00:00:54,773 Speaker 2: to watch some boxing in London, so we thought let's 12 00:00:54,773 --> 00:00:56,653 Speaker 2: go all ridd and Black and well, Nik, I know 13 00:00:56,693 --> 00:00:58,813 Speaker 2: you've got Lord Eastern North Harbor, but this week you 14 00:00:58,853 --> 00:01:02,373 Speaker 2: are calling the Canterbury Otago Final greetings, Welcome into Rugby 15 00:01:02,413 --> 00:01:03,133 Speaker 2: Direct once more. 16 00:01:03,533 --> 00:01:05,893 Speaker 3: Now please to be here, Elliott Yah. It's a special 17 00:01:05,973 --> 00:01:10,493 Speaker 3: time in the South, isn't it. Every men's provincial trophy 18 00:01:10,733 --> 00:01:14,293 Speaker 3: guaranteed to sit down here in the summer mid Canterbury 19 00:01:14,333 --> 00:01:16,813 Speaker 3: win and the Meads Cup North Otago, the Lahore Cup. 20 00:01:16,853 --> 00:01:19,773 Speaker 3: Of course, Otigo got their hands on the Ranfully Shield 21 00:01:19,813 --> 00:01:22,133 Speaker 3: and whatever which way it goes on Saturday, whether it 22 00:01:22,173 --> 00:01:24,813 Speaker 3: will be where I am here in Canterbury or down 23 00:01:24,853 --> 00:01:28,973 Speaker 3: south and Dunedin the MPC title, So a special time 24 00:01:29,373 --> 00:01:32,693 Speaker 3: for rugby in this part of the country certainly is. 25 00:01:32,773 --> 00:01:35,573 Speaker 2: And look, this is a rematch of the Ranfilly Shield 26 00:01:35,653 --> 00:01:38,893 Speaker 2: Challenge from a few weeks ago where Otago took it 27 00:01:38,933 --> 00:01:41,853 Speaker 2: away from Canterbury. I know you've been out to the 28 00:01:41,853 --> 00:01:45,013 Speaker 2: Canterbury trainings this week and got amongst them and spoken 29 00:01:45,013 --> 00:01:48,493 Speaker 2: to them about what they're expecting. But is there revenge 30 00:01:48,933 --> 00:01:51,973 Speaker 2: utu on their mind for what happened a few weeks 31 00:01:52,013 --> 00:01:54,293 Speaker 2: back at a Polo Project stadium. 32 00:01:54,693 --> 00:01:58,053 Speaker 3: I certainly think it'll play its part. However, there's just 33 00:01:58,093 --> 00:02:01,133 Speaker 3: so much history between these two proud provinces that I 34 00:02:01,133 --> 00:02:06,853 Speaker 3: don't think it'll be totally central to Canterbury's preparation. But yeah, 35 00:02:06,893 --> 00:02:10,893 Speaker 3: Marty Burke, the Canterbury coach coincidentally, this is his last 36 00:02:10,933 --> 00:02:14,653 Speaker 3: hurrah after four years at the Helm and one as 37 00:02:14,693 --> 00:02:16,893 Speaker 3: an assistant, so there's a bit of motivation to go 38 00:02:16,973 --> 00:02:19,173 Speaker 3: out and high there too. But yeah, he mentioned you 39 00:02:19,253 --> 00:02:21,493 Speaker 3: know that the Otago came up the road four or 40 00:02:21,493 --> 00:02:24,173 Speaker 3: five weeks ago wherever whenever it was, and took something 41 00:02:24,413 --> 00:02:27,173 Speaker 3: that they cherished a lot and really hold in the 42 00:02:27,253 --> 00:02:30,293 Speaker 3: highest of regards, and the logger would away from them 43 00:02:30,413 --> 00:02:33,973 Speaker 3: that certainly, I'm sure there'll be that sort of lingering 44 00:02:34,133 --> 00:02:36,373 Speaker 3: in the background. They did mention when I went out 45 00:02:36,373 --> 00:02:39,013 Speaker 3: to training on Tuesday that they haven't really gone back 46 00:02:39,053 --> 00:02:42,213 Speaker 3: in great detail over that game. And really for Canterbury 47 00:02:42,253 --> 00:02:44,853 Speaker 3: on that day, it was the last twenty minutes where 48 00:02:44,853 --> 00:02:46,893 Speaker 3: it just fell to pieces. I was just looking at 49 00:02:46,933 --> 00:02:51,053 Speaker 3: some of the replay footage myself just as a we reminder, 50 00:02:51,093 --> 00:02:53,893 Speaker 3: and they're up fourteen nil after ten minutes. There was 51 00:02:53,893 --> 00:02:56,373 Speaker 3: a point there fifty five minutes into the game just 52 00:02:56,373 --> 00:02:58,333 Speaker 3: felt like one more try and this was really going 53 00:02:58,373 --> 00:03:01,653 Speaker 3: to blow out for Canterbury, but Targo just eaked their 54 00:03:01,693 --> 00:03:03,933 Speaker 3: way back into the contest. They've got game breakers, as 55 00:03:03,933 --> 00:03:07,253 Speaker 3: we know across the park and they can score points 56 00:03:07,733 --> 00:03:09,893 Speaker 3: very quickly and once their tails are up, which they 57 00:03:09,893 --> 00:03:13,173 Speaker 3: were on that occasion, they're a pretty tough nut to crack, 58 00:03:13,293 --> 00:03:16,573 Speaker 3: so it all shapes up beautifully. It's the first time 59 00:03:16,613 --> 00:03:20,453 Speaker 3: in a really long time from a Canterbury rugby standpoint Alliott, 60 00:03:20,493 --> 00:03:24,973 Speaker 3: that they've opened the South stand, a pollotroject stadium such 61 00:03:25,013 --> 00:03:29,693 Speaker 3: as been. I suppose the dwindling crowds in christ Genes. 62 00:03:29,493 --> 00:03:31,453 Speaker 2: Social commentary boxing isn't it? 63 00:03:31,453 --> 00:03:34,413 Speaker 3: It is, which will make it fantastic because usually it's 64 00:03:34,453 --> 00:03:38,693 Speaker 3: such a bizarre experience where we're commentating in the south 65 00:03:38,733 --> 00:03:41,653 Speaker 3: stand and it's literally me, Matt Todd, who's going to 66 00:03:41,653 --> 00:03:44,653 Speaker 3: be in commentary with me on Saturday afternoon, Bill Toomey 67 00:03:44,853 --> 00:03:47,733 Speaker 3: pushing the technical buttons and the injured Cannabury plays. 68 00:03:47,853 --> 00:03:48,213 Speaker 2: That's it. 69 00:03:48,293 --> 00:03:51,173 Speaker 3: There's usually about seven or eight of us total. So 70 00:03:51,213 --> 00:03:53,893 Speaker 3: the fact that the south stand is open is fantastic. 71 00:03:53,973 --> 00:03:56,853 Speaker 3: And last I heard was they're hoping for in and 72 00:03:56,933 --> 00:04:01,053 Speaker 3: around thirteen thousand, which is at least double, if not more, 73 00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:03,373 Speaker 3: what they got for the semi final against Hawks Bay, 74 00:04:03,413 --> 00:04:06,733 Speaker 3: which is fantastic and a real voter confidence an afternoon 75 00:04:06,813 --> 00:04:08,293 Speaker 3: rugby as well with a four o'clock kick off. 76 00:04:08,413 --> 00:04:09,933 Speaker 2: Yeah absolutely, I don't know. There well be plenty of 77 00:04:09,933 --> 00:04:11,813 Speaker 2: people coming up from Dnetan and trying to squeeze it 78 00:04:11,853 --> 00:04:14,373 Speaker 2: into maybe a day trip or an overnight trip for 79 00:04:14,773 --> 00:04:16,813 Speaker 2: the final, which is you know, the wonderful thing about 80 00:04:17,413 --> 00:04:20,173 Speaker 2: a South Island final as well, and Otigo looking to 81 00:04:20,173 --> 00:04:22,373 Speaker 2: do what they haven't been able to do since nineteen 82 00:04:22,453 --> 00:04:25,533 Speaker 2: ninety eight, and they have been in really impressive form 83 00:04:26,093 --> 00:04:30,733 Speaker 2: this season. In fact, they're two you know, knockout performances. 84 00:04:30,773 --> 00:04:33,293 Speaker 2: The quarterfinal was really tough against Waikato, but I thought 85 00:04:33,293 --> 00:04:35,653 Speaker 2: they stretched the leagues and played some really nice rugby 86 00:04:36,133 --> 00:04:38,253 Speaker 2: last week against a tough Bay of Plenty side and 87 00:04:38,533 --> 00:04:43,173 Speaker 2: really didn't allow them too many chances at all. And look, 88 00:04:43,173 --> 00:04:46,413 Speaker 2: a lot's been made of Dylan Pledger. He's been outstanding 89 00:04:46,613 --> 00:04:48,613 Speaker 2: I think this season, and you know, it doesn't get 90 00:04:48,653 --> 00:04:50,973 Speaker 2: to be on the verge of what many was saying 91 00:04:50,973 --> 00:04:52,773 Speaker 2: an All Black squad didn't make the All Blacks fifteen 92 00:04:52,813 --> 00:04:55,653 Speaker 2: in the end, but you know he's been impressive for them. 93 00:04:55,693 --> 00:04:57,933 Speaker 2: So too Lucas Casey. But the planier that I want 94 00:04:57,973 --> 00:05:01,013 Speaker 2: to highlight is actually cam Miller because I think in 95 00:05:01,013 --> 00:05:03,493 Speaker 2: a way that Dylan Pledge has taken some of the 96 00:05:03,533 --> 00:05:06,093 Speaker 2: heat off what a first five is expected to do, 97 00:05:06,173 --> 00:05:08,573 Speaker 2: and that's what great number nine are able to do, 98 00:05:08,693 --> 00:05:10,733 Speaker 2: is just to alleviate some of that playmaking pressure and 99 00:05:10,773 --> 00:05:13,373 Speaker 2: put it on their own showers. But Camiller's guided this 100 00:05:13,413 --> 00:05:15,453 Speaker 2: team around the park beautifully. I think over the last 101 00:05:15,533 --> 00:05:18,413 Speaker 2: few weeks he was integral and that Shield Challenge. He 102 00:05:18,493 --> 00:05:21,653 Speaker 2: was very very good last week. He's not a flashy ten, 103 00:05:21,733 --> 00:05:25,093 Speaker 2: but he is a game driving ten that will get 104 00:05:25,093 --> 00:05:26,493 Speaker 2: you around the park. And I have to say I've 105 00:05:26,493 --> 00:05:28,973 Speaker 2: been really impressed by what he's been able to do 106 00:05:29,053 --> 00:05:31,293 Speaker 2: this season. And we talk about higher on is maybe 107 00:05:31,293 --> 00:05:33,173 Speaker 2: a little bit unlucky not to be looked at for 108 00:05:33,173 --> 00:05:35,413 Speaker 2: that All Blacks fifteen squad. But you know that matchup 109 00:05:35,413 --> 00:05:38,453 Speaker 2: at ten's going to be interesting on Saturday afternoon, isn't it? 110 00:05:38,733 --> 00:05:41,373 Speaker 2: With Cam Miller at ten four Otago and then Andrew 111 00:05:41,413 --> 00:05:44,053 Speaker 2: Neustub who is very much a you know, with the 112 00:05:44,093 --> 00:05:47,613 Speaker 2: greatest respect to makeshift ten for this Canterbury side. What 113 00:05:47,653 --> 00:05:49,453 Speaker 2: are you expecting from that particular matchup. 114 00:05:50,013 --> 00:05:52,173 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a fascinating one in the sense that I 115 00:05:52,213 --> 00:05:55,493 Speaker 3: think when Marty Burke got Andrew news Tub to commit 116 00:05:55,573 --> 00:05:58,693 Speaker 3: to Cannibre, I think this is his first fifteen's MPC 117 00:05:58,813 --> 00:06:01,533 Speaker 3: campaign since the COVID days when there wasn't as much 118 00:06:01,573 --> 00:06:03,293 Speaker 3: sevens around twenty twenty twenty twenty one. 119 00:06:04,333 --> 00:06:06,253 Speaker 4: It was with designs on being. 120 00:06:07,213 --> 00:06:11,013 Speaker 3: A back utility via the bench capable of covering ten 121 00:06:11,293 --> 00:06:14,493 Speaker 3: fullback wing at a push. In the end, Andrew Newsta 122 00:06:14,653 --> 00:06:17,773 Speaker 3: because primarily James White has spent a lot of time 123 00:06:17,893 --> 00:06:21,813 Speaker 3: out with injury, and Johnny McNicholas season ending injury as well. 124 00:06:21,933 --> 00:06:25,333 Speaker 3: Andrew news Tops played every game primarily in the last 125 00:06:25,333 --> 00:06:28,093 Speaker 3: month or so as the starting first five eighth, and 126 00:06:28,133 --> 00:06:30,293 Speaker 3: while he has played a little bit of rugby there, 127 00:06:30,293 --> 00:06:32,973 Speaker 3: it doesn't seem sort of the natural fit to the 128 00:06:33,053 --> 00:06:34,853 Speaker 3: way he wants to go about his work. He is 129 00:06:35,173 --> 00:06:38,693 Speaker 3: playing behind a very good pack which has allowed him 130 00:06:38,733 --> 00:06:42,293 Speaker 3: to play on that front foot and shift the ball 131 00:06:42,293 --> 00:06:44,773 Speaker 3: out to a very experienced midfield and Dallas McLeod and 132 00:06:44,773 --> 00:06:47,813 Speaker 3: Branden enall. But just on your points with cam Miller, 133 00:06:47,853 --> 00:06:50,173 Speaker 3: I think you're absolutely right, and he's had to do 134 00:06:50,213 --> 00:06:52,333 Speaker 3: it the hard way, hasn't He hasn't all come at 135 00:06:52,373 --> 00:06:55,773 Speaker 3: once on this linear line through the age groups and 136 00:06:55,893 --> 00:06:58,493 Speaker 3: just bursting onto the scene. There's been some injury adversity, 137 00:06:58,493 --> 00:07:01,893 Speaker 3: there's been some dips in form, but he is playing 138 00:07:02,733 --> 00:07:05,573 Speaker 3: a very important role for the Otago side and not 139 00:07:05,693 --> 00:07:08,853 Speaker 3: overplaying his hand as you say. He's getting plenty of 140 00:07:08,973 --> 00:07:12,693 Speaker 3: fantastic service from this live a halfback that is Dylan Pledger, 141 00:07:12,773 --> 00:07:16,093 Speaker 3: but he's just doing his core role really well, guiding 142 00:07:16,133 --> 00:07:19,733 Speaker 3: the team around the park. And most importantly from a 143 00:07:19,813 --> 00:07:24,653 Speaker 3: points accumulation perspective, goodness me, he can kick the ball 144 00:07:24,653 --> 00:07:28,333 Speaker 3: off the tee well and truly the most efficient goalkicker 145 00:07:28,333 --> 00:07:30,773 Speaker 3: in the NPC this season, so that'll be one to 146 00:07:31,133 --> 00:07:32,933 Speaker 3: watch the Battle of the Tens. That just add some 147 00:07:33,013 --> 00:07:36,013 Speaker 3: information too that James White will play via the bench. 148 00:07:36,013 --> 00:07:37,813 Speaker 3: He's been in and out of this team with injury, 149 00:07:37,893 --> 00:07:40,933 Speaker 3: so whether we see James White later and the second 150 00:07:40,933 --> 00:07:43,293 Speaker 3: half of this final will be something to keep an 151 00:07:43,293 --> 00:07:43,613 Speaker 3: eye to. 152 00:07:43,773 --> 00:07:45,293 Speaker 2: Where do you think it will be decided to come 153 00:07:45,373 --> 00:07:48,133 Speaker 2: Saturday afternoon four o'clock kickoff? You look at the Ford 154 00:07:48,173 --> 00:07:50,653 Speaker 2: packs and maybe Canterbury has the edge there with with 155 00:07:50,693 --> 00:07:54,693 Speaker 2: no disrespect to Otago's pack, but just the experience that 156 00:07:54,733 --> 00:07:56,853 Speaker 2: Canterbury is able to call on. But for me, I 157 00:07:56,893 --> 00:07:59,173 Speaker 2: don't think there's much between these two sides. You look 158 00:07:59,213 --> 00:08:02,173 Speaker 2: at the man for man and you know there's some 159 00:08:02,293 --> 00:08:05,533 Speaker 2: international experience that the way of Canterbury Otago's got, you know, 160 00:08:05,653 --> 00:08:08,213 Speaker 2: like Sir Christian Leo Willi is there Viace camp To 161 00:08:09,013 --> 00:08:11,813 Speaker 2: who's already played Test rugby this year. So for me, 162 00:08:12,133 --> 00:08:14,693 Speaker 2: I think it's a real toss up game. Where are 163 00:08:14,693 --> 00:08:16,893 Speaker 2: you expecting it to be? Decided comes Saturday afternoon. 164 00:08:17,493 --> 00:08:20,093 Speaker 3: Oh, big time, big time toss up game. And I 165 00:08:20,093 --> 00:08:22,933 Speaker 3: think it can't be understated too. I know Marty Burke 166 00:08:23,013 --> 00:08:25,373 Speaker 3: was trying his utmost in the Tuesday media to say 167 00:08:25,413 --> 00:08:29,133 Speaker 3: the game wouldn't be determined by not having George Bell 168 00:08:29,493 --> 00:08:33,733 Speaker 3: and Sam Dowry available, But those two have been up 169 00:08:33,733 --> 00:08:36,813 Speaker 3: there with Canterbury's best, perhaps alongside Tom Christie in the 170 00:08:36,893 --> 00:08:38,933 Speaker 3: last month. The way George Bell has come back from 171 00:08:38,973 --> 00:08:42,773 Speaker 3: injuries thoroughly deserved his elevation back into the All Blacks 172 00:08:42,813 --> 00:08:46,093 Speaker 3: after an injury interrupted campaign at the beginning of the year, 173 00:08:46,573 --> 00:08:49,093 Speaker 3: the way he's carrying the ball, his accuracy at lineout time, 174 00:08:49,093 --> 00:08:52,013 Speaker 3: and Sam Dowry for a large part of the NPC season. 175 00:08:52,013 --> 00:08:54,693 Speaker 3: In fact, he might still sit at the top of 176 00:08:54,733 --> 00:08:58,613 Speaker 3: the Dwayne Monkly Metal standing, such was his ability in 177 00:08:58,653 --> 00:09:02,293 Speaker 3: and around both sides of the ball again at set Peace. 178 00:09:02,373 --> 00:09:05,693 Speaker 3: So my understanding is obviously Brody McAllister comes back in 179 00:09:06,053 --> 00:09:09,333 Speaker 3: who George Bell effectively unseen out of that All Blacks 180 00:09:09,493 --> 00:09:11,373 Speaker 3: in the year tour squad, and he'll have a point 181 00:09:11,413 --> 00:09:14,253 Speaker 3: to prove, no doubt, and it'll be a big opportunity 182 00:09:14,253 --> 00:09:17,813 Speaker 3: for Brodie McAllister before that All Blacks fifteen tour, Liam 183 00:09:17,893 --> 00:09:21,733 Speaker 3: Jack getting the start with no Sam Darry. It's cliched, Elliott, 184 00:09:21,733 --> 00:09:24,493 Speaker 3: but I think it does start up front and Canterbury's 185 00:09:24,493 --> 00:09:28,933 Speaker 3: ability to just have a stranglehold on an opposition team. 186 00:09:29,853 --> 00:09:32,413 Speaker 3: That's what they did to Hawk's Bay, That's what they 187 00:09:32,453 --> 00:09:36,133 Speaker 3: did the eventually an extra time to County's Medicale when 188 00:09:36,253 --> 00:09:38,933 Speaker 3: the going got really tough there. A lot of teams 189 00:09:38,973 --> 00:09:42,453 Speaker 3: have come down here to christ Church and been confident 190 00:09:42,533 --> 00:09:46,213 Speaker 3: of getting a result, and for whatever reason, Canterbury's ability 191 00:09:46,253 --> 00:09:49,293 Speaker 3: to just suffocate and scramble. What when it looks like 192 00:09:49,333 --> 00:09:52,493 Speaker 3: they're going to break, you know, they find another gear. 193 00:09:52,613 --> 00:09:55,973 Speaker 3: Otago the only team to hand them a loss this season, 194 00:09:56,013 --> 00:09:58,213 Speaker 3: So if anyone can do it, it'll be them. But 195 00:09:58,213 --> 00:10:00,613 Speaker 3: they'll have to be just as good as they were 196 00:10:00,693 --> 00:10:02,613 Speaker 3: last month when they won that Ranfhilly Shield match. 197 00:10:02,653 --> 00:10:05,573 Speaker 2: Absolutely look you touched on it before. With Brodie McAllister 198 00:10:05,813 --> 00:10:10,413 Speaker 2: expected to come back in but not All Blacks for Canterbury. 199 00:10:11,453 --> 00:10:13,973 Speaker 2: They won't be able to call on George Bell or 200 00:10:14,733 --> 00:10:17,733 Speaker 2: Sam Dowry for this match. They've been so integral to 201 00:10:17,853 --> 00:10:21,173 Speaker 2: them this season. It doesn't sound like Marty boot push 202 00:10:21,253 --> 00:10:23,973 Speaker 2: that hard to have them included. They were always the 203 00:10:24,013 --> 00:10:27,253 Speaker 2: All Blacks flying out on Friday out of Auckland and 204 00:10:27,293 --> 00:10:29,693 Speaker 2: for this end of year tour. Great to have both 205 00:10:29,733 --> 00:10:32,213 Speaker 2: those players call back in, but it was always going 206 00:10:32,293 --> 00:10:34,973 Speaker 2: to be unlikely that they'll be released to the final 207 00:10:35,013 --> 00:10:37,093 Speaker 2: and fly you know, a day or forty eight hours later, 208 00:10:37,253 --> 00:10:41,373 Speaker 2: especially given the injuries to the All Blacks locks, which 209 00:10:41,373 --> 00:10:43,093 Speaker 2: is where obviously Sam Darry slides in. 210 00:10:44,213 --> 00:10:47,093 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, it's a little bit disappointing, I must say, 211 00:10:47,933 --> 00:10:49,613 Speaker 3: especially given you know, these are guys who have been 212 00:10:49,653 --> 00:10:51,773 Speaker 3: called back in. It's not like they were involved in 213 00:10:51,573 --> 00:10:55,773 Speaker 3: the in the Rugby Championship mix. However, I can completely 214 00:10:55,813 --> 00:10:58,893 Speaker 3: understand it as you o line there, Elliott, particularly in 215 00:10:58,933 --> 00:11:02,093 Speaker 3: the locking department. There's a real chance that that Sam 216 00:11:02,173 --> 00:11:04,973 Speaker 3: Dowry might have to provide lock and cover via the 217 00:11:04,973 --> 00:11:08,093 Speaker 3: bench against Ireland in Chicago next week behind Scott Barrett 218 00:11:08,133 --> 00:11:12,013 Speaker 3: and and Fabian Holland. You're not going to travel all 219 00:11:12,013 --> 00:11:14,333 Speaker 3: the way to Chicago without a third Hoker either, just 220 00:11:14,373 --> 00:11:17,773 Speaker 3: in case something happens to Cody Taylor or Samasoni Tokyaho. 221 00:11:17,893 --> 00:11:19,773 Speaker 4: So look, it is what it is. 222 00:11:20,813 --> 00:11:24,173 Speaker 3: And as I say, Brady mcallis to two tests for 223 00:11:24,173 --> 00:11:26,493 Speaker 3: the All Blacks this year. Pretty handy replacement and I've 224 00:11:26,493 --> 00:11:28,693 Speaker 3: been very impressed to when Liam Jack has had his 225 00:11:28,733 --> 00:11:32,293 Speaker 3: opportunities starting for this Canterbury team. So you know, that's 226 00:11:32,333 --> 00:11:35,893 Speaker 3: why you have a squad of thirty odd plus because 227 00:11:35,893 --> 00:11:37,933 Speaker 3: you never know exactly when you might need to call 228 00:11:38,013 --> 00:11:38,333 Speaker 3: upon them. 229 00:11:38,373 --> 00:11:41,733 Speaker 2: Absolutely that game four o'clock on Saturday afternoon, as a 230 00:11:41,813 --> 00:11:43,693 Speaker 2: Neck out lined, he's got the call on gold Sport 231 00:11:43,773 --> 00:11:48,773 Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio. Speaking of squads, Super Rugby squads, Now, this 232 00:11:48,853 --> 00:11:51,693 Speaker 2: is a story that you had this morning across news talks. 233 00:11:51,693 --> 00:11:55,613 Speaker 2: He'd be around some changes to the Super Rugby contracting 234 00:11:55,733 --> 00:12:00,413 Speaker 2: system for twenty twenty six and beyond that, teams can 235 00:12:00,453 --> 00:12:04,453 Speaker 2: now contract twelve wider training group members. There are some 236 00:12:04,533 --> 00:12:07,773 Speaker 2: cavigates that they can't be called upon necessarily or thrust 237 00:12:07,813 --> 00:12:12,093 Speaker 2: straight into playing. But an interesting story and some you know, 238 00:12:12,093 --> 00:12:13,973 Speaker 2: a wee bit of an overhaul because pathways has been 239 00:12:14,053 --> 00:12:17,493 Speaker 2: quite a hot topic in recent times and they're making 240 00:12:17,533 --> 00:12:21,213 Speaker 2: some significant significant changes. As you outline your stories this morning. 241 00:12:21,333 --> 00:12:24,333 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was quite a lot to unpack out of 242 00:12:24,373 --> 00:12:26,813 Speaker 3: this one Elliott's and of course this is part of 243 00:12:27,053 --> 00:12:31,693 Speaker 3: a wider project or review that you might hear some 244 00:12:31,813 --> 00:12:36,213 Speaker 3: New Zealand Rugby people terms IMPAC that the men's Pathways 245 00:12:36,293 --> 00:12:40,693 Speaker 3: and Competitions Project, and yeah, as we reported on news Talks, 246 00:12:40,693 --> 00:12:43,653 Speaker 3: he'd be earlier this morning. A change in that wider 247 00:12:43,693 --> 00:12:47,053 Speaker 3: Training group contracting mix. So usually it's been in and 248 00:12:47,133 --> 00:12:50,173 Speaker 3: around five or six wider Training Group members. That number 249 00:12:50,213 --> 00:12:53,453 Speaker 3: is effectively going to double out to a maximum of twelve, 250 00:12:53,493 --> 00:12:56,013 Speaker 3: So there's no change, I should stress there's no change 251 00:12:56,053 --> 00:12:59,213 Speaker 3: to how many you can fully contract at a New 252 00:12:59,293 --> 00:13:02,853 Speaker 3: Zealand Super Rugby team that remains at thirty eight but 253 00:13:02,933 --> 00:13:06,293 Speaker 3: now effectively thirty eight and twelve you get to fifty 254 00:13:06,533 --> 00:13:08,773 Speaker 3: and there's a lot of numbers and a lot of 255 00:13:08,773 --> 00:13:11,573 Speaker 3: males to feed, so to speak. As you mentioned, there's 256 00:13:11,613 --> 00:13:15,333 Speaker 3: some caveats along the way. The wider Training Group members 257 00:13:15,373 --> 00:13:18,853 Speaker 3: can't be available for selection unless they're called upon as 258 00:13:18,853 --> 00:13:22,333 Speaker 3: an injury replacement to a fully contracted player. They have 259 00:13:22,453 --> 00:13:25,533 Speaker 3: to be at least twenty years old, so there is 260 00:13:25,573 --> 00:13:28,813 Speaker 3: some questions there too as to where some of our youngest, 261 00:13:28,853 --> 00:13:31,613 Speaker 3: brightest prospects under the age of twenty are going to land. 262 00:13:32,613 --> 00:13:37,173 Speaker 3: There's a greater alignment with the local provincial unions in 263 00:13:37,213 --> 00:13:40,893 Speaker 3: the sense that up to six of the twelve, say 264 00:13:40,933 --> 00:13:44,253 Speaker 3: for Crusaders for example, they'll get sort of first crack 265 00:13:44,333 --> 00:13:48,933 Speaker 3: at up to six Canterbury and or Tasman players before 266 00:13:49,333 --> 00:13:53,133 Speaker 3: then launching into a draft for those sort of final 267 00:13:53,133 --> 00:13:57,173 Speaker 3: spots of the wider training group. And on top of 268 00:13:57,173 --> 00:14:01,253 Speaker 3: this as well, again, if you're still with me, good 269 00:14:01,253 --> 00:14:03,973 Speaker 3: on you. But one of the interesting layers to this too, 270 00:14:04,093 --> 00:14:08,853 Speaker 3: with all this around, having all these extra players, you know, 271 00:14:08,853 --> 00:14:10,413 Speaker 3: how are they going to get some meaningful rugby when 272 00:14:10,413 --> 00:14:12,493 Speaker 3: they're not picked in the early rounds of Super Rugby 273 00:14:12,493 --> 00:14:14,573 Speaker 3: while we wait for the club rugby season to kick 274 00:14:14,573 --> 00:14:17,893 Speaker 3: in to gear sort of middle of April now. Mike Anthony, 275 00:14:17,933 --> 00:14:21,133 Speaker 3: who has spoke to for this story from New Zealand Rugby, 276 00:14:21,173 --> 00:14:25,693 Speaker 3: said they are going to have a more structured development competition, 277 00:14:25,733 --> 00:14:28,333 Speaker 3: a more structured second tier competition. It's sort of like 278 00:14:28,373 --> 00:14:30,893 Speaker 3: back to the future for teams like the Crusader Knights. 279 00:14:31,933 --> 00:14:35,573 Speaker 3: But the caveat there is they can't do everything, and 280 00:14:35,573 --> 00:14:38,973 Speaker 3: they're going to pull some resourcing away from the under 281 00:14:38,973 --> 00:14:42,413 Speaker 3: twenty Super tournament that has annually been held in Topoor 282 00:14:42,933 --> 00:14:45,573 Speaker 3: and that will no longer be on the schedule for 283 00:14:45,693 --> 00:14:48,893 Speaker 3: twenty twenty six quite a bit to unpack, some a 284 00:14:48,893 --> 00:14:50,773 Speaker 3: fear bit of moving in and around, but this is something 285 00:14:50,773 --> 00:14:55,333 Speaker 3: the five New Zealand franchises fed back to New Zealand Rugby. 286 00:14:55,613 --> 00:14:57,933 Speaker 3: By and large it wasn't it was termed as me 287 00:14:57,973 --> 00:15:02,093 Speaker 3: as not universal support, but they've got what more or 288 00:15:02,173 --> 00:15:05,493 Speaker 3: less they're after rather than parachuting and replacement players. I 289 00:15:05,533 --> 00:15:07,813 Speaker 3: think of guys like John I Foller, a couple of 290 00:15:07,813 --> 00:15:09,613 Speaker 3: three years ag Go, all of a sudden out of 291 00:15:09,613 --> 00:15:13,013 Speaker 3: absolutely nowhere, was called into a crusader's squad because of 292 00:15:13,373 --> 00:15:15,453 Speaker 3: several injuries in the front row. These guys are now 293 00:15:15,493 --> 00:15:18,413 Speaker 3: going to be fully immersed from pre season next month, 294 00:15:18,893 --> 00:15:22,093 Speaker 3: and should there be injuries, which we know there will be, 295 00:15:22,693 --> 00:15:25,373 Speaker 3: they can be called upon and there's a lot more 296 00:15:25,613 --> 00:15:27,613 Speaker 3: insurance policy I suppose you can say for the five 297 00:15:27,653 --> 00:15:29,293 Speaker 3: New Zealand teams right here in New Zone. 298 00:15:29,333 --> 00:15:32,373 Speaker 2: Yeah, really interesting changes. So two hundred and fifty essentially 299 00:15:32,733 --> 00:15:37,213 Speaker 2: contracted players as part of this Malwana incidentally separate because 300 00:15:37,213 --> 00:15:38,933 Speaker 2: they don't fall under that New Zealand Rugby or the 301 00:15:38,933 --> 00:15:42,453 Speaker 2: five Foundation club framework. But by and large I think 302 00:15:42,493 --> 00:15:45,533 Speaker 2: these changes are the right move and you can see 303 00:15:45,533 --> 00:15:48,373 Speaker 2: some more respecting put on the pathways. We've seen players 304 00:15:48,413 --> 00:15:52,133 Speaker 2: you know, jump around different franchise even if they didn't 305 00:15:52,133 --> 00:15:53,973 Speaker 2: get game time. They're sort of popped up at training, 306 00:15:54,573 --> 00:15:57,253 Speaker 2: you know, for two or three franchises a season to 307 00:15:57,373 --> 00:16:00,253 Speaker 2: help out and boost numbers. Whether it's a specialist role 308 00:16:00,293 --> 00:16:02,253 Speaker 2: like a half back or something like that, there's often 309 00:16:02,293 --> 00:16:05,573 Speaker 2: been players that have jumped around franchises to fill in 310 00:16:05,733 --> 00:16:08,093 Speaker 2: that sort of role. So I think having it locked 311 00:16:08,133 --> 00:16:10,773 Speaker 2: in and you know, a clearer idea of these pathways 312 00:16:10,853 --> 00:16:14,493 Speaker 2: can only be a good thing for Super Rugby. I 313 00:16:14,533 --> 00:16:17,253 Speaker 2: do think there are still some major issues around what 314 00:16:17,293 --> 00:16:21,773 Speaker 2: the NPC pathway is versus the Super Rugby pathway. It 315 00:16:21,813 --> 00:16:25,373 Speaker 2: was interesting to see Harry Inch's comments sort of around 316 00:16:25,413 --> 00:16:27,453 Speaker 2: the you know, not his comment specifically, but there was 317 00:16:27,453 --> 00:16:30,493 Speaker 2: some intimation around the pathway system. So I don't think 318 00:16:30,533 --> 00:16:33,293 Speaker 2: it's entirely cleared up by this, But if you're a 319 00:16:33,333 --> 00:16:35,413 Speaker 2: young player, the path the Super Rugby is a lot 320 00:16:35,453 --> 00:16:38,413 Speaker 2: clearer maybe than it was, you know, before these changes 321 00:16:38,413 --> 00:16:38,933 Speaker 2: were made. 322 00:16:39,333 --> 00:16:43,693 Speaker 3: Yeah, and with these wider training group contracts that these 323 00:16:43,693 --> 00:16:47,613 Speaker 3: fringe players will sign, that there will be a PU 324 00:16:47,733 --> 00:16:52,573 Speaker 3: or an NPC contract that goes hand in hand with that. Yeah. Look, 325 00:16:52,813 --> 00:16:54,933 Speaker 3: I think on the whole too, I'm with you Elliott. 326 00:16:54,973 --> 00:16:57,933 Speaker 3: I think the fact there'll be full immersion it helps 327 00:16:57,933 --> 00:17:00,773 Speaker 3: all the super rugby teams from that perspective, getting players 328 00:17:01,373 --> 00:17:06,773 Speaker 3: involved intricately within a super rugby environment, it's going to 329 00:17:06,813 --> 00:17:09,973 Speaker 3: create extra playing the cross all positions. Part of the 330 00:17:09,973 --> 00:17:12,933 Speaker 3: push that Mike Anthony mentioned to me as part of 331 00:17:12,973 --> 00:17:15,773 Speaker 3: the story is that of the twelve should have all 332 00:17:15,853 --> 00:17:20,253 Speaker 3: those main positions covered within that twelve and it will 333 00:17:20,293 --> 00:17:24,373 Speaker 3: probably detract from players who don't get caught in that 334 00:17:24,933 --> 00:17:28,293 Speaker 3: first round of the of the fully fledged contracts from 335 00:17:28,333 --> 00:17:31,693 Speaker 3: looking out looking at overseas, sorry, looking at an email 336 00:17:31,773 --> 00:17:34,453 Speaker 3: r in the United States, looking at you know, that 337 00:17:34,533 --> 00:17:36,413 Speaker 3: shoot shield in Australia for example. 338 00:17:36,493 --> 00:17:38,213 Speaker 4: So I think on the whole it's going to work. 339 00:17:38,253 --> 00:17:38,413 Speaker 1: Well. 340 00:17:38,453 --> 00:17:40,493 Speaker 3: There will be some people that question why they had 341 00:17:40,493 --> 00:17:45,133 Speaker 3: to go away from the Super Rugby Under twenty tournaments, 342 00:17:45,213 --> 00:17:48,533 Speaker 3: which has helped them pick a New Zealand under twenty 343 00:17:49,533 --> 00:17:52,653 Speaker 3: squad for the World Championships and the like. But that 344 00:17:52,693 --> 00:17:55,973 Speaker 3: Super Rugby Under twenty tournament hasn't been there, you know, 345 00:17:56,413 --> 00:18:00,253 Speaker 3: way back when you know you've picked out of out 346 00:18:00,253 --> 00:18:04,093 Speaker 3: of club form, you picked out of training camps. So yeah, 347 00:18:04,293 --> 00:18:06,013 Speaker 3: it'll be it'll be interesting to see how it works 348 00:18:06,693 --> 00:18:08,293 Speaker 3: in practice. And I think what we're going to see 349 00:18:08,373 --> 00:18:11,613 Speaker 3: as a fan and of members of the media covering rugby, 350 00:18:11,653 --> 00:18:13,613 Speaker 3: Elliott is we're going to start to see a little 351 00:18:13,653 --> 00:18:19,853 Speaker 3: bit more player movement and just understanding the player depth 352 00:18:21,093 --> 00:18:23,333 Speaker 3: in each of these five new Zealand rugby teams. I've 353 00:18:23,333 --> 00:18:26,173 Speaker 3: already seen in the last couple of weeks. Eli Oden 354 00:18:26,213 --> 00:18:29,813 Speaker 3: Ryan for example, has signed a contract where it's wider 355 00:18:29,853 --> 00:18:32,653 Speaker 3: training group for the Blues for twenty six into a 356 00:18:32,653 --> 00:18:37,253 Speaker 3: full contract for twenty seven. Lucas Casey for example, out 357 00:18:37,293 --> 00:18:39,493 Speaker 3: of Otago we were talking about before, he's got a 358 00:18:39,613 --> 00:18:42,013 Speaker 3: wider training group deal with the Highlanders. He's part of 359 00:18:42,053 --> 00:18:46,533 Speaker 3: their local six for twenty twenty six. So yeah, we're 360 00:18:46,533 --> 00:18:49,453 Speaker 3: going to start seeing because usually these full contracts are 361 00:18:49,533 --> 00:18:53,173 Speaker 3: so on up so far in advance, because you know 362 00:18:53,173 --> 00:18:56,453 Speaker 3: when basically twelve months in advance before players come off contract. 363 00:18:56,853 --> 00:18:58,533 Speaker 3: But we are going to see, yeah, a little bit 364 00:18:58,573 --> 00:18:59,533 Speaker 3: more movement, which I think. 365 00:18:59,413 --> 00:19:00,573 Speaker 2: Is good for the game. I think it is good 366 00:19:00,573 --> 00:19:03,573 Speaker 2: for the game. I've been advocate for maybe having protected 367 00:19:03,613 --> 00:19:06,013 Speaker 2: players like they used to back in the old days. 368 00:19:06,053 --> 00:19:08,333 Speaker 2: Now with that would still work in twenty twenty five, 369 00:19:08,453 --> 00:19:10,373 Speaker 2: twenty six, So I don't know, but protecting a certain 370 00:19:10,453 --> 00:19:12,493 Speaker 2: number of players, then you can pick a certain number 371 00:19:12,493 --> 00:19:14,533 Speaker 2: out of the draft. But there's a bit of a 372 00:19:14,573 --> 00:19:16,973 Speaker 2: balance here in terms of that and giving opportunities to 373 00:19:17,013 --> 00:19:20,133 Speaker 2: players that might put their hands up in the NPC 374 00:19:20,493 --> 00:19:22,653 Speaker 2: as well, that come out of nowhere, really have been 375 00:19:22,773 --> 00:19:25,453 Speaker 2: under the radar or on the radar, and then have 376 00:19:25,493 --> 00:19:27,933 Speaker 2: a booming NPC season. There is going to be room 377 00:19:28,013 --> 00:19:30,813 Speaker 2: for that for players to be drafted in. Now. Another 378 00:19:30,853 --> 00:19:34,253 Speaker 2: story that you had today, Oli Mathis, who's been the 379 00:19:34,293 --> 00:19:36,453 Speaker 2: talk of the NPC and New Zealand rugby for a 380 00:19:36,453 --> 00:19:40,013 Speaker 2: couple of seasons. Now hasn't hit played Super rugby, but 381 00:19:40,373 --> 00:19:43,773 Speaker 2: this hybrid player who can play flanker and wing, you've 382 00:19:43,773 --> 00:19:46,173 Speaker 2: got some news around where he might be going for 383 00:19:46,213 --> 00:19:47,133 Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. 384 00:19:47,533 --> 00:19:49,933 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well it was sort of a byproduct of this 385 00:19:49,973 --> 00:19:54,453 Speaker 3: discussion around the wider training group contracts that got some 386 00:19:55,053 --> 00:19:59,573 Speaker 3: information that the Crusaders have secured the services of Oli Mathis. 387 00:19:59,733 --> 00:20:03,213 Speaker 3: There's been a real tug of war between the Crusaders 388 00:20:03,773 --> 00:20:06,373 Speaker 3: and the Chiefs. Of course, oly Mathis plays as provincial 389 00:20:06,453 --> 00:20:10,053 Speaker 3: rugby for Wakato. He hasn't played Super Raby, as he 390 00:20:10,093 --> 00:20:12,213 Speaker 3: mentioned now he's been in the All Black sevens environment, 391 00:20:12,253 --> 00:20:15,693 Speaker 3: but certainly one of the country's top prospects and as 392 00:20:15,733 --> 00:20:18,653 Speaker 3: you say, that ability to be equally adept at both 393 00:20:18,693 --> 00:20:22,653 Speaker 3: flanker and wing a real prospect indeed. But yeah, it 394 00:20:22,693 --> 00:20:24,973 Speaker 3: is my understanding he spent some time down here during 395 00:20:24,973 --> 00:20:27,573 Speaker 3: the Crusaders Super Ragby campaign that was earlier in the 396 00:20:27,653 --> 00:20:31,453 Speaker 3: year as an injury replacement or as injury training cover 397 00:20:31,573 --> 00:20:34,213 Speaker 3: at the time for Ethan Blackadder, and it is yet 398 00:20:34,253 --> 00:20:36,973 Speaker 3: my understanding. We're reporting today that Oli Mathis will be 399 00:20:37,373 --> 00:20:40,733 Speaker 3: one of those wider training group members for the Crusaders 400 00:20:40,733 --> 00:20:44,293 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty six, so that doesn't necessarily mean he 401 00:20:44,373 --> 00:20:49,333 Speaker 3: will play for the Crusaders next year. However, for those 402 00:20:49,373 --> 00:20:52,773 Speaker 3: who are unaware haven't been following the NBC as closely 403 00:20:53,093 --> 00:20:56,733 Speaker 3: on the Crusader's books, Cullen Grace, Corey Callow and Ethan 404 00:20:56,773 --> 00:21:00,053 Speaker 3: Blackadder up and Tasman, all of whom have sat out 405 00:21:00,093 --> 00:21:02,613 Speaker 3: almost all of the NPC with season ending injuries, and 406 00:21:02,653 --> 00:21:04,853 Speaker 3: all of them play in the loose forward position. So 407 00:21:04,893 --> 00:21:08,093 Speaker 3: there is a likelihood of a possibility that Oli Mathis 408 00:21:08,093 --> 00:21:10,813 Speaker 3: could play some early rounds of of Super Rugby next 409 00:21:10,893 --> 00:21:13,253 Speaker 3: year in a Crusaders jersey. And he's just the latest 410 00:21:13,253 --> 00:21:16,733 Speaker 3: and a long line of Hamilton Boys alumni that all 411 00:21:16,773 --> 00:21:19,653 Speaker 3: of a sudden have found found homes here in Crusaders country. 412 00:21:19,693 --> 00:21:24,973 Speaker 3: Noah Hothem, Taima, Taylor Cahill. It's a yeah, it's been interesting. 413 00:21:25,013 --> 00:21:27,133 Speaker 3: I suppose that's just the professional rugby way these days, 414 00:21:27,213 --> 00:21:27,413 Speaker 3: it is. 415 00:21:27,453 --> 00:21:30,293 Speaker 2: Indeed, that's an interesting point. If let's say, for example, 416 00:21:30,293 --> 00:21:32,893 Speaker 2: Oli Mathis does play those opening rounds of the NBC 417 00:21:33,053 --> 00:21:36,413 Speaker 2: and plays the house down and then the fit again 418 00:21:36,693 --> 00:21:39,173 Speaker 2: flankers come back into the reckoning. Does he didn't have 419 00:21:39,213 --> 00:21:41,013 Speaker 2: to be dropped? Or do you go with the hot hand? 420 00:21:41,093 --> 00:21:43,333 Speaker 2: Like it's going to be interesting test of the system 421 00:21:44,133 --> 00:21:46,813 Speaker 2: as to whether they're allowed to keep playing this wider 422 00:21:46,853 --> 00:21:49,253 Speaker 2: training group player if he's you know, shooting the lights 423 00:21:49,293 --> 00:21:51,173 Speaker 2: out for four or five games in a row and 424 00:21:51,253 --> 00:21:54,813 Speaker 2: you know in irrepressible form, surely coaches aren't going to 425 00:21:55,253 --> 00:21:58,613 Speaker 2: drop the informed player for a fit again player that's 426 00:21:58,653 --> 00:21:59,213 Speaker 2: coming back. 427 00:22:00,013 --> 00:22:01,653 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is going to be one to watch, as 428 00:22:01,693 --> 00:22:04,413 Speaker 3: I say, one, you know, like like change, there's gonna 429 00:22:04,453 --> 00:22:10,293 Speaker 3: be probably some some some teasing issues, and I do 430 00:22:10,373 --> 00:22:13,293 Speaker 3: wonder in terms of keeping the integrity of what's been 431 00:22:13,453 --> 00:22:17,253 Speaker 3: outlaid as all the sort of rules and stipulations that 432 00:22:17,293 --> 00:22:19,333 Speaker 3: there isn't going to be any sort of you know, 433 00:22:19,453 --> 00:22:20,653 Speaker 3: hypothetical situations. 434 00:22:20,653 --> 00:22:23,533 Speaker 4: But he isn't. He's still quite injured, but actually he's not. 435 00:22:23,613 --> 00:22:25,653 Speaker 3: So we'll keep playing, as you say, with the hot 436 00:22:25,733 --> 00:22:28,653 Speaker 3: hand of the guy on the wider training group contract. 437 00:22:28,653 --> 00:22:32,973 Speaker 3: But it's certainly New Zealand Rugby's intention for the thirty 438 00:22:33,013 --> 00:22:35,293 Speaker 3: eight players from each of the five New Zealand franchises 439 00:22:35,333 --> 00:22:39,013 Speaker 3: who are fully contracted to be first cabs off the rank. 440 00:22:39,853 --> 00:22:42,573 Speaker 3: But I think, yeah, I think we might see maybe 441 00:22:42,613 --> 00:22:44,973 Speaker 3: one or two scenarios like that play out next year, 442 00:22:44,973 --> 00:22:48,853 Speaker 3: particularly as we know with you know, head injuries one 443 00:22:48,893 --> 00:22:50,933 Speaker 3: week out, does that mean you can elevate a playoff 444 00:22:50,973 --> 00:22:52,333 Speaker 3: that just one week? Does it need to be a 445 00:22:52,373 --> 00:22:55,213 Speaker 3: bit more on the medium to long term. There's still 446 00:22:55,253 --> 00:22:57,773 Speaker 3: a little bit to be worked through, But yeah, we 447 00:22:58,173 --> 00:22:59,293 Speaker 3: want to follow next year for sure. 448 00:22:59,373 --> 00:23:02,133 Speaker 2: It will be indeed in Super Rugby squads out November, 449 00:23:02,293 --> 00:23:04,933 Speaker 2: the Sex Quick Break here on rugbyric come back and 450 00:23:04,973 --> 00:23:08,413 Speaker 2: took the greatest rivalry after this. 451 00:23:08,413 --> 00:23:14,933 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 452 00:23:17,373 --> 00:23:21,133 Speaker 2: Every trive try and sixty second every tackle to tackle, tackles, 453 00:23:21,133 --> 00:23:25,293 Speaker 2: get up again, I take him. 454 00:23:25,173 --> 00:23:28,253 Speaker 1: Before at times Rugby Direct how it buddies talks. 455 00:23:29,373 --> 00:23:33,853 Speaker 2: You're back with Rugby Direct and Forkliff Solutions. Of course, 456 00:23:33,973 --> 00:23:35,893 Speaker 2: our good friends. They're lifting you and your business to 457 00:23:36,053 --> 00:23:41,613 Speaker 2: a higher level. Rugby's greatest rivalry finally confirmed last week, Nick, 458 00:23:41,693 --> 00:23:44,013 Speaker 2: this has been the offering for well, I think about 459 00:23:44,053 --> 00:23:46,653 Speaker 2: two and a half years since it was first reported. 460 00:23:47,093 --> 00:23:49,453 Speaker 2: It's been pretty much an open secret that it's going 461 00:23:49,533 --> 00:23:52,093 Speaker 2: to be happening. There was a fair bit of detail 462 00:23:52,213 --> 00:23:54,933 Speaker 2: to hammer out, not least with the likes of the 463 00:23:54,973 --> 00:23:59,493 Speaker 2: rest of the SANS unions, but for tour matches, for 464 00:23:59,733 --> 00:24:02,893 Speaker 2: tests one outside of South Africa. I was going to 465 00:24:02,933 --> 00:24:04,813 Speaker 2: ask you for your initial reaction, but you probably had 466 00:24:04,893 --> 00:24:07,493 Speaker 2: a couple of years to stew over it. So what's 467 00:24:07,533 --> 00:24:09,413 Speaker 2: your your thoughts on on how this has all played 468 00:24:09,453 --> 00:24:11,813 Speaker 2: out and you know, having a tour return to the 469 00:24:11,893 --> 00:24:12,853 Speaker 2: international schedule. 470 00:24:13,293 --> 00:24:16,213 Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, on principle, I'm a huge fan and I 471 00:24:16,253 --> 00:24:19,693 Speaker 3: suppose I'm revealing my age here, but I was two 472 00:24:19,813 --> 00:24:23,453 Speaker 3: years old when the All Blacks toured South Africa nineteen 473 00:24:23,493 --> 00:24:26,533 Speaker 3: ninety six. So these are memories I've really only seen 474 00:24:27,613 --> 00:24:30,053 Speaker 3: on YouTube and the likes since. But you know, you 475 00:24:30,173 --> 00:24:33,693 Speaker 3: hear from your Shawn Fitzpatrick's and you're justin Marshall's about 476 00:24:34,413 --> 00:24:39,973 Speaker 3: how high they hold that successful tour, and you can't 477 00:24:40,013 --> 00:24:42,933 Speaker 3: help but be excited about the prospect of the All 478 00:24:42,973 --> 00:24:45,973 Speaker 3: Blacks potentially being able to do something similar thirty years on. 479 00:24:47,373 --> 00:24:49,653 Speaker 3: I can't help but feel, just as a lot of 480 00:24:49,653 --> 00:24:51,413 Speaker 3: people have sort of mentioned, just as were started to 481 00:24:51,453 --> 00:24:56,973 Speaker 3: get into a real position of competitiveness with the Rugby Championship, 482 00:24:57,013 --> 00:25:00,453 Speaker 3: that it is unfortunate timing, if anything, that we're going 483 00:25:00,533 --> 00:25:03,573 Speaker 3: to park the Rugby Championship for a year. It just 484 00:25:03,613 --> 00:25:07,093 Speaker 3: felt like there was some a real groundswell of momentum 485 00:25:07,853 --> 00:25:09,813 Speaker 3: each and every weekend you'd go in and you wouldn't 486 00:25:09,853 --> 00:25:14,213 Speaker 3: know who would beat who. However, I think, yeah, as 487 00:25:14,253 --> 00:25:15,853 Speaker 3: I say, i'd touch on my first point and that 488 00:25:16,213 --> 00:25:19,213 Speaker 3: getting the tours back and the spring Box are our 489 00:25:19,253 --> 00:25:23,693 Speaker 3: greatest rival. I'm very excited about it and midweek games 490 00:25:23,733 --> 00:25:25,653 Speaker 3: and the like. I remember Scott Robinson was in town 491 00:25:25,733 --> 00:25:28,333 Speaker 3: here a couple of weeks ago talking about the All 492 00:25:28,373 --> 00:25:31,373 Speaker 3: Blacks End of Year tour squad that had just named 493 00:25:31,613 --> 00:25:34,053 Speaker 3: and the All Blacks fifteen squad, he mentioned to the 494 00:25:34,133 --> 00:25:36,653 Speaker 3: assembled media, then he'd look to take about forty players. 495 00:25:36,693 --> 00:25:40,453 Speaker 3: So we're going to rarely see where Scott Robinson is 496 00:25:40,533 --> 00:25:44,493 Speaker 3: at too in the third year of the World Cup cycle, 497 00:25:44,573 --> 00:25:46,773 Speaker 3: and what better test than to put yourself up against 498 00:25:46,773 --> 00:25:47,613 Speaker 3: the double world champions. 499 00:25:47,733 --> 00:25:49,213 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it ends up with the All Blacks 500 00:25:49,253 --> 00:25:52,973 Speaker 2: having seventeen games next year when you incorporate those tour 501 00:25:53,013 --> 00:25:56,973 Speaker 2: games as well. So it's a big workload, but I 502 00:25:57,053 --> 00:25:58,693 Speaker 2: think it is. It's a big test a year out 503 00:25:58,733 --> 00:26:00,773 Speaker 2: from the World Cup, but it's going to put through 504 00:26:00,853 --> 00:26:02,573 Speaker 2: the ringer. They're going to have to test their depth 505 00:26:02,653 --> 00:26:05,293 Speaker 2: chart out a little bit. And look, I think it's 506 00:26:05,493 --> 00:26:07,653 Speaker 2: a real win for Tea strugby. I would have loved 507 00:26:07,653 --> 00:26:11,253 Speaker 2: to see Australia tour Argentina Oral vice versa. At the 508 00:26:11,373 --> 00:26:14,493 Speaker 2: same time, it may not have the same rivalry necessarily 509 00:26:14,613 --> 00:26:17,693 Speaker 2: those two teams, but if we can bring back tours, 510 00:26:17,693 --> 00:26:20,413 Speaker 2: and I remember the nine ninety six tour quite clearly, 511 00:26:20,653 --> 00:26:22,653 Speaker 2: you know, and how important that was and it was 512 00:26:22,693 --> 00:26:26,053 Speaker 2: seen as the last chance before professional rugby really took 513 00:26:26,093 --> 00:26:28,893 Speaker 2: hold in the Try Nations, you know, the last chance 514 00:26:28,973 --> 00:26:31,973 Speaker 2: to actually win a series on South African selt soil. 515 00:26:32,053 --> 00:26:34,893 Speaker 2: Now thirty years later, you know a new generation of 516 00:26:34,973 --> 00:26:40,533 Speaker 2: players is getting that opportunity. The Rugby Championship initially wasn't 517 00:26:40,573 --> 00:26:43,893 Speaker 2: going to be in for twenty twenty eight. They were 518 00:26:43,933 --> 00:26:47,373 Speaker 2: looking at other options, maybe around the All Blacks touring 519 00:26:47,413 --> 00:26:51,613 Speaker 2: Australia for three tests and also during Argentina for three 520 00:26:51,733 --> 00:26:55,773 Speaker 2: Tests as well. Then because of this year's Rugby Championship, 521 00:26:55,813 --> 00:26:58,013 Speaker 2: they've walked that back a little bit and implemented the 522 00:26:58,093 --> 00:27:00,733 Speaker 2: Rugby Championship again. So we'll have a full Rugby Championship 523 00:27:00,773 --> 00:27:03,973 Speaker 2: twenty seven to twenty eight and twenty nine, so I 524 00:27:04,013 --> 00:27:06,053 Speaker 2: think there's a nice balance there, and then twenty thirty 525 00:27:06,213 --> 00:27:09,293 Speaker 2: South Africa come to New Zealand and play those matches here. 526 00:27:09,413 --> 00:27:11,773 Speaker 2: So look, I think the Rugby Championship have got a 527 00:27:11,813 --> 00:27:14,693 Speaker 2: little bit style and this year is was really exciting, 528 00:27:14,813 --> 00:27:16,773 Speaker 2: really good. But if you can have it three years 529 00:27:16,773 --> 00:27:18,613 Speaker 2: out of four and then have something different in that 530 00:27:18,693 --> 00:27:21,093 Speaker 2: fourth year, I think you've got a pretty good balance 531 00:27:21,933 --> 00:27:24,653 Speaker 2: by and larger across the international rugby calendar. 532 00:27:25,413 --> 00:27:28,053 Speaker 3: So remind me what are the Wallabies and the Permas 533 00:27:28,533 --> 00:27:31,573 Speaker 3: doing next year? They're going to welcome some Northern Hemisphere opposition. 534 00:27:31,653 --> 00:27:35,253 Speaker 2: Well, I think they're going to play each other in 535 00:27:35,373 --> 00:27:38,253 Speaker 2: a couple of tests. I think the Japan's going to 536 00:27:38,333 --> 00:27:42,413 Speaker 2: go to Australia as well. But basically, if you're the 537 00:27:42,453 --> 00:27:43,933 Speaker 2: All Blacks, that the year looks a bit like this. 538 00:27:44,093 --> 00:27:47,293 Speaker 2: So you have those three Nations Cup games or Nations 539 00:27:47,373 --> 00:27:51,653 Speaker 2: Championship games in July, and it's going to be France, Ireland, Italy. 540 00:27:51,773 --> 00:27:55,533 Speaker 2: My understanding that they'll come in July and play in 541 00:27:55,653 --> 00:27:59,333 Speaker 2: New Zealand, so no more three year tours at least 542 00:27:59,373 --> 00:28:01,333 Speaker 2: in those years, and then there'll be a couple of 543 00:28:01,413 --> 00:28:03,333 Speaker 2: weeks the All Blacks will go up to South Africa 544 00:28:03,453 --> 00:28:06,013 Speaker 2: for that six seven week tour, a couple of weeks 545 00:28:06,053 --> 00:28:08,973 Speaker 2: break after that, they'll play a Bledislow home away in 546 00:28:09,093 --> 00:28:11,893 Speaker 2: early October, and then a couple more weeks break and 547 00:28:11,973 --> 00:28:14,613 Speaker 2: then the quote unquote interview two. It's really the second 548 00:28:14,653 --> 00:28:16,733 Speaker 2: part of the Nation's Championship where they'll play those other 549 00:28:17,253 --> 00:28:20,133 Speaker 2: six nation sides and then a finals weekend in London. 550 00:28:20,293 --> 00:28:23,573 Speaker 2: So that's how you arrive at your seventeen games to 551 00:28:23,653 --> 00:28:24,533 Speaker 2: the Lakes next year. 552 00:28:24,933 --> 00:28:27,373 Speaker 3: And you mentioned that we'd stale there, Elliott, and I 553 00:28:27,453 --> 00:28:31,533 Speaker 3: think you know you hear some players talk about not 554 00:28:31,693 --> 00:28:35,933 Speaker 3: necessarily it being monotonous, but that's sort of you know that, 555 00:28:36,333 --> 00:28:38,413 Speaker 3: you know the July series is coming. You know exactly 556 00:28:38,493 --> 00:28:41,253 Speaker 3: what a rugby championship is. By now, with the greatest respect, 557 00:28:41,293 --> 00:28:41,813 Speaker 3: you know what an. 558 00:28:41,733 --> 00:28:42,413 Speaker 4: End of year tour is. 559 00:28:42,453 --> 00:28:46,813 Speaker 3: I think variety for the player is going to help 560 00:28:46,893 --> 00:28:51,293 Speaker 3: perhaps from a retention standpoint as opposed to just all 561 00:28:51,333 --> 00:28:54,533 Speaker 3: our contracting peraps being centered around that four year cycle 562 00:28:54,573 --> 00:28:57,253 Speaker 3: of a World Cup. And I think for the fan too, yeah, 563 00:28:57,293 --> 00:28:59,013 Speaker 3: As I say, like it's a little bit of a 564 00:28:59,253 --> 00:29:02,613 Speaker 3: just unfortunate timing with how good the rugby Championship was 565 00:29:02,693 --> 00:29:05,213 Speaker 3: this year, But I think something different on the program 566 00:29:05,813 --> 00:29:10,453 Speaker 3: can only be of benefit to the game at the 567 00:29:10,493 --> 00:29:14,013 Speaker 3: moment when you know there are some underlying issues elsewhere. 568 00:29:14,173 --> 00:29:16,333 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we'll get to the point very soon. 569 00:29:16,493 --> 00:29:18,893 Speaker 2: And I'm sure maybe the next high profile player that 570 00:29:18,973 --> 00:29:21,213 Speaker 2: signed with New Zealand Rugby will be signed through until 571 00:29:21,253 --> 00:29:24,853 Speaker 2: twenty thirty because Damian McKenzie last year signed through or 572 00:29:24,853 --> 00:29:26,853 Speaker 2: earlier this year signed through to twenty twenty nine. That 573 00:29:26,973 --> 00:29:30,293 Speaker 2: encompasses the Lions Tour. So if you're a player that's 574 00:29:30,493 --> 00:29:33,013 Speaker 2: a pois to resign and I think most of, if 575 00:29:33,093 --> 00:29:35,413 Speaker 2: not all, the All Blacks maybe but Finlay Christia have 576 00:29:35,533 --> 00:29:38,373 Speaker 2: resigned for next year at least anyway, But those players 577 00:29:38,493 --> 00:29:40,493 Speaker 2: ending twenty twenty six will now have you know that 578 00:29:40,573 --> 00:29:43,413 Speaker 2: South African tour next year, a World Cup in twenty seven, 579 00:29:43,533 --> 00:29:46,133 Speaker 2: to look at a Lions tour in twenty nine, and 580 00:29:46,213 --> 00:29:49,893 Speaker 2: if they're still young enough and fit enough twenty thirty 581 00:29:49,933 --> 00:29:52,813 Speaker 2: when South Africa come here for that tour as well, 582 00:29:52,893 --> 00:29:55,173 Speaker 2: could well be on the cards. So you're presenting a 583 00:29:55,213 --> 00:29:57,253 Speaker 2: pretty compelling I think, four or five years worth of 584 00:29:57,893 --> 00:30:01,653 Speaker 2: rugby fixtures to not going to get that in the 585 00:30:02,053 --> 00:30:04,813 Speaker 2: three sixty No, No, I mean, are three sixty has 586 00:30:04,853 --> 00:30:07,173 Speaker 2: other benefits? Of course, you know you can play for 587 00:30:08,813 --> 00:30:12,173 Speaker 2: or whatever the do buy dolphins exactly, the do buy dolphins. 588 00:30:12,213 --> 00:30:14,173 Speaker 2: You know it's got other benefits, but you can't get 589 00:30:14,213 --> 00:30:15,853 Speaker 2: that in our three sixty three. A very good point. 590 00:30:15,973 --> 00:30:18,413 Speaker 2: The other point before we wrap up, and Gregor Paul's 591 00:30:18,413 --> 00:30:21,013 Speaker 2: written about this in the Herald Today and opinion piece, 592 00:30:21,133 --> 00:30:26,173 Speaker 2: is that South Africa is pushing for the Rugby Championship 593 00:30:26,213 --> 00:30:30,093 Speaker 2: to be moved to February March, and Australia's thought to 594 00:30:30,173 --> 00:30:32,133 Speaker 2: be keen relatively keen as well. Gives them a bit 595 00:30:32,173 --> 00:30:36,093 Speaker 2: of clear ear before the AFL and NRL seasons get 596 00:30:36,173 --> 00:30:38,973 Speaker 2: into full swinging. I think Argentina would probably go along 597 00:30:39,013 --> 00:30:40,733 Speaker 2: with it, till I'm not entirely sure of their position. 598 00:30:40,973 --> 00:30:43,413 Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby has been reported as the holdout. I'll 599 00:30:43,413 --> 00:30:45,653 Speaker 2: put it to Mark Robinson last week when I spoke 600 00:30:45,693 --> 00:30:48,613 Speaker 2: to him, and they're not entirely against the idea, but 601 00:30:48,613 --> 00:30:51,613 Speaker 2: it'd be a fundamental reshaping of the calendar as we 602 00:30:51,733 --> 00:30:53,653 Speaker 2: know in New Zealand rugby. If you were to start 603 00:30:54,213 --> 00:30:57,173 Speaker 2: or play, you know, six NA Rugby Championship in that 604 00:30:57,253 --> 00:31:00,253 Speaker 2: same window as the Six Nations across February and March, 605 00:31:00,533 --> 00:31:02,453 Speaker 2: you'd have to change Super Rugby where you already played 606 00:31:02,453 --> 00:31:05,373 Speaker 2: Super Rugby early and started in January. I don't know, 607 00:31:05,493 --> 00:31:09,293 Speaker 2: but it's I can see why it's appealing to South 608 00:31:09,333 --> 00:31:11,613 Speaker 2: Africa given some of their players come around the globe. 609 00:31:12,733 --> 00:31:16,573 Speaker 2: I'm not entirely sold on it though. Yeah. 610 00:31:16,653 --> 00:31:19,133 Speaker 4: There looks like a fair bit of work that would 611 00:31:19,133 --> 00:31:19,973 Speaker 4: have to go into it. 612 00:31:20,253 --> 00:31:24,573 Speaker 3: I'm even just thinking out loud here from a broadcast standpoint, 613 00:31:25,293 --> 00:31:29,133 Speaker 3: what does that mean for the will almost be a 614 00:31:29,253 --> 00:31:32,653 Speaker 3: vacuum of volume when we're usually right in the middle 615 00:31:32,693 --> 00:31:35,893 Speaker 3: of rugby, and from a content perspective, look, I can 616 00:31:35,973 --> 00:31:38,493 Speaker 3: see the merits behind it, and I'm sure from a 617 00:31:39,133 --> 00:31:41,693 Speaker 3: I know we're getting a fancy new stadium opening in 618 00:31:41,733 --> 00:31:44,813 Speaker 3: April next year, Elliot, but going along to rugby and 619 00:31:44,853 --> 00:31:46,853 Speaker 3: the winter can be a bit of a struggle for 620 00:31:47,413 --> 00:31:50,893 Speaker 3: the punters. You know, those early rounds of Super Rugby 621 00:31:50,893 --> 00:31:52,493 Speaker 3: are pretty well supported. So if all of a sudden 622 00:31:52,533 --> 00:31:55,893 Speaker 3: that was international rugby in February or March here in 623 00:31:55,933 --> 00:31:58,013 Speaker 3: New Zealand, I think that would still be very well supported. 624 00:31:58,093 --> 00:32:01,013 Speaker 3: But as you say, it would be quite a structural 625 00:32:01,373 --> 00:32:04,613 Speaker 3: upheaval from what we've known for the last two plus decades. 626 00:32:04,653 --> 00:32:07,893 Speaker 3: So yeah, there's a lot of changing, isn't there. And 627 00:32:07,893 --> 00:32:10,773 Speaker 3: I mean you said that you talk to Mark Robinson's 628 00:32:10,773 --> 00:32:13,813 Speaker 3: going to have a new New Zealand Rugby CEO probably 629 00:32:13,933 --> 00:32:15,053 Speaker 3: to make that decision. 630 00:32:15,173 --> 00:32:17,493 Speaker 2: You watch the space on that front, and I think 631 00:32:17,533 --> 00:32:20,373 Speaker 2: watch the space on yeah, the movement as well. I 632 00:32:20,373 --> 00:32:23,533 Speaker 2: think there'll be more discussions when the Sans Unions meets 633 00:32:23,973 --> 00:32:26,813 Speaker 2: at World Rugby in November as well, so not too 634 00:32:26,853 --> 00:32:28,653 Speaker 2: far away and might be a bit more movement on 635 00:32:28,773 --> 00:32:31,853 Speaker 2: that front too. So we will watch the space. But Nick, 636 00:32:31,933 --> 00:32:34,733 Speaker 2: look forward to your commentary on Saturday afternoon Canterbury, O 637 00:32:34,733 --> 00:32:36,773 Speaker 2: target should be a cracker. As I said, gold Sport 638 00:32:36,813 --> 00:32:40,293 Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio have a great call and enjoy the occasion. 639 00:32:40,293 --> 00:32:41,853 Speaker 2: I was going to say it's your last dance at 640 00:32:41,893 --> 00:32:44,413 Speaker 2: a Pier Project stadium, but as we know, not quite. 641 00:32:44,493 --> 00:32:46,173 Speaker 2: The Crusaders are back for more next year. 642 00:32:46,813 --> 00:32:49,573 Speaker 4: They can't help themselves. They love the place. It's been 643 00:32:49,613 --> 00:32:50,213 Speaker 4: great to jump on. 644 00:32:50,613 --> 00:32:53,973 Speaker 2: That is Rugby directful another week. We'll be back late 645 00:32:54,053 --> 00:32:56,173 Speaker 2: next week, sole bit of a break, but myself and 646 00:32:56,253 --> 00:32:58,773 Speaker 2: Lean once we get to Chicago, will sit down, once 647 00:32:58,853 --> 00:33:00,933 Speaker 2: the team's a name for the All Blanks and Island game, 648 00:33:01,133 --> 00:33:04,653 Speaker 2: will sit down and pod then. So probably in your 649 00:33:04,733 --> 00:33:08,253 Speaker 2: feed sometime Friday next week. Well order to your company then, 650 00:33:08,773 --> 00:33:11,533 Speaker 2: Thanks to Garry Share as well for producing this podcast, 651 00:33:11,773 --> 00:33:14,453 Speaker 2: which has been powered as always by fooklib Solutions, lifting 652 00:33:14,493 --> 00:33:16,133 Speaker 2: you and your business to a higher level. 653 00:33:20,613 --> 00:33:23,173 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks ed B listen live on 654 00:33:23,333 --> 00:33:26,253 Speaker 1: air or online and keep our shows with you wherever 655 00:33:26,373 --> 00:33:28,893 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio