1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Kiyota. 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the front Page, a 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Trade Me 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: is bidding farewell to some of its marketplace fees. From 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: March ten, sellers won't have to pay a seven point 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 2: nine percent success fee when they sell things like their couch, address, 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: a lamp or the TV. The platforms said it wants 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: to make it easier for kiwis to declutter their homes, 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: say goodbye to their secondhand stuff, and get some extra 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: cash in their pockets. But is the change actually about 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 2: that or is trade me getting out shown by other 12 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 2: online marketplaces. Today on the front page, Massy University marketing 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: expert Photo Langers with us to talk about our obsession 14 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: with selling our old stuff. But let's just first first 15 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: start off about talking about trade me. Do you reckon 16 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: it is actually as popular as it once was? 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: I think, oh, that's a good question. I think certainly 18 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: trade me has been extremely popular, and I think it's 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: probably suffered a little bit from increasing competition from other 20 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: traditional sort of online retailers, I guess, and a new 21 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: online retailers as well, and then other type marketplace type things. 22 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: So I don't think it's quite as you know, it's not. 23 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: In marketing we often say top of mind awareness. You know, 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: people are still aware of it, but I just don't 25 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: know whether it's quite as prominent a factor in people's 26 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: lives as it used to be. 27 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: It is obviously being ousted by other competition online. What 28 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: is more popular these days. 29 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 3: I think there's a number of different channels. 30 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: So I think, you know, traditionally, if you dial the 31 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: clock back twenty seven years ago when I was working 32 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: with the founder of trade me and it was very interesting. 33 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,279 Speaker 3: It was a New Zealand was a different place. 34 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: There was you know, there wasn't an Internet, but it 35 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: was nothing to speak of, and we certainly didn't have 36 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: access to online retailing. Well twenty twenty six we have 37 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: not just online retailing within New Zealand, but we have 38 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: online retailing globally and particularly from China and other Southeast 39 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: Asian countries, and so New Zealand consumers are now have 40 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: an amazing choice basically at their fingertips, and within a 41 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: couple of days, maybe a week, they have access to 42 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: the actual physical good and holding it in their hands. 43 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: So the marketplace has changed dramatically since the days when 44 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: trade me was started, and so I think I think 45 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: that the marketplace has you know, the market has changed 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: so fundamentally that I think it's really really important for 47 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: established businesses like trade me to look at their business model, 48 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: not just at free structures, even at their business model, 49 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: to say, what are the trends? 50 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 3: How can we keep up to date with this? 51 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: And you mentioned that you started off and worked with 52 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: the founder back in what was that ninety nine when 53 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: it first operated. How do you think I mean, if 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: you would work with them again and say, look, we 55 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: need a complete brand refresh, what would be one of 56 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 2: the first things that you suggest. 57 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: I think the brand is certainly instilled in New Zealand's 58 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: New Zealand's minds, but I think refreshing the brand could 59 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: be part of it. But I also think that it's 60 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: it's the user interface. It hasn't evolved terribly, I think, 61 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: and maybe that's also a way of saying that it's 62 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: been successful and there's no need to change it. But 63 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: I do think that consumers are used to big tech 64 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: every day, whether that's their streaming platform on a big 65 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: screen on a TV or music streaming on a small screen. 66 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: Are either mobile or social. 67 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: Media on their small screens, and so I think these 68 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: these kind of platforms they continuously update and they always 69 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: nutched the design forward, not always for the better, I think, 70 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: fear to say, but there's continuous change and they look 71 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: very sharp, I have to say. And so generally the 72 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: experience is pretty, is very pleasant, and it's visually appealing, 73 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: and it's also very seamless. I do think that trade 74 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: me has fallen a little bit behind on that because 75 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: it's it's a more it feels like a more traditional model. 76 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: And yes, it's you know, it's different from social media, 77 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: but I think people are used to that social media 78 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: look and feel nowadays, and so I think trade me 79 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: would do really well to think of design and even 80 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: steps that customers, both buyers and sellers have to go 81 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: through in order to get a transaction done. 82 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: Now. I understand that trade me brought to in its 83 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: success fees model in the two thousand and that's when 84 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 2: it was the country's most visited site half a million 85 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: daily visitors by two thousand and nine, actually, which is 86 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: astronomical fifty two percent of those listings. Worse. Secondhand, what 87 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: do you make of the change to actually abolish the 88 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: seller feel together. 89 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: Look, I think it's a good move because what consumers 90 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: generally crave is transparency and obviously the lower the fees, 91 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: the better. And so there's two things here that happen together, 92 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: and so things have become more transparent, I think. 93 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 3: Which is good. 94 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: And also fees for most casual sellers have decreased and 95 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: that's massive, and so how can trade me take advantage 96 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: of this? I think they really need to advertise this heavily, 97 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: not just on site because then you only hit the 98 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: people who you are already who are already using the service. 99 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: But it's really about spreading that message well beyond trade 100 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: Me's own website, basically into maybe traditional advertising, social media advertising, 101 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: just to get people hooked in, because my sense is 102 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: that other operators like Facebook Marketplace have a huge advantage, 103 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: and that advantage is that they're part of many people's 104 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: social media diet, and trade me is not part of 105 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: many people's social media diet. You know, they might there 106 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: might be some people a proportion of New Zealand is 107 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: who are logging on daily or weekly or whatever. But 108 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: I think having that advantage really makes a big difference, 109 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: and so I think you need to get people back 110 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: on side, and I think talking about fees lower fees 111 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: most qiis will save money. Those messages need to spread 112 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: well beyond trade Me's own website. 113 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: Do you reckon that the talk of these fees, and 114 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: dependent on how successful trade me is from here on out, 115 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: will prompt actually other online marketplaces to get rid of 116 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 2: their commission fees. Perhaps because I was looking up one 117 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: of the sites that I use quite often is Designer Wardrobe, 118 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 2: which is more you know, they trade me for fashion 119 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 2: and accessories and brands and things like that, I wasn't 120 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: actually aware that they actually take a twelve point nine 121 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 2: to five percent commission rates on sales over forty dollars, 122 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: which I'll put my hand up and say most of 123 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: my sales things I buy are over forty dollars. What 124 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 2: is the likelihood of those other sites looking at them 125 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: and being like, hey, I think we're going to follow suit? 126 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: I think they're likely. It is very very high, and 127 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: that's not just for direct competitors. So you could say 128 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: Designer Wardrobe, Yeah, there's some overlap, but they're obviously very 129 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: much specialized on clothing and suspect female clothing, and so 130 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: there's a relatively small overlap but even sites like this 131 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: will take note of what's being done by the big 132 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: players and then say, look, if that becomes an expectation 133 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: of users. More broadly, what do we need to do 134 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: in order to fulfill that expectation, even though it might 135 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: not be explicit. And so as soon as big players 136 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: change the rules of how they engage with their users, 137 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: that has spillover effects to other platforms as well. And 138 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: it's much smaller platforms, So it's like a delicate balance, 139 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, the marketplace, and I think as soon as 140 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: one thing happens over here, then other players are certainly 141 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: looking at it, and then they will have to reflect 142 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: on well do we want to follow suit or not? 143 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: In what are the pros and cons? But I think 144 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: if big players change the rules, I think smaller I 145 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: like you to follow, do you? 146 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 2: I mean? I can imagine that trademans exist doing this 147 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: and doing their completely. They're also shifting how members pay 148 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: for goods as well, and we'll talk about that in 149 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: a second, but even just the security aspect, they could 150 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: probably push on a bit more. 151 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 3: Hay and the. 152 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: Well, I'll just say I sold a cat tree on 153 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: Facebook marketplace and I'm still getting messages from people saying 154 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: asking if it's available like two months later. 155 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: So you know, the. 156 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: Ease and the relatively easy interface, and the security aspect 157 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 2: is a really important one with trade me as well. 158 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 3: Hey, absolutely ease of you. 159 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: So you know, from academic literature, we know that there 160 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: are two key drivers, and they're not the only ones, 161 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: but they are the two key drivers of white people. 162 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: So users use a platform, and the first one is 163 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 1: ease of use. You know, how easy is. 164 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 3: It to use that platform? 165 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: And number two, not surprisingly, what is the perceived usefulness 166 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: of that platform? And so if you you know, if 167 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: you say, look, eighty percent of the success of my 168 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: platform is dependent on those two factors, then you've got 169 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: a good grasp on your business. So usefulness, you know, 170 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: you can say, look the online security and not being 171 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: fortunately separated from your money that you've shifted across to 172 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: somebody else's account via bank transfer. I think that's really 173 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: really important. It's maybe not the first thing that people 174 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: think about, but certainly there are enough kiwis, you know, 175 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: losing money and there's if it's a bank transfer, there's 176 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: very little that trade we can do about this, and 177 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: even banks can't do much about this, and there have 178 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: been some well publicized cases, so bringing that more in 179 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: house for trade me and saying, look, you have to 180 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: pay via ping or you can still do cash if 181 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: you prefer, but if you use it, If you use ping, 182 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: there is a small fee of two point one nine 183 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: percent or something. But that also means we can keep 184 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: a tap on that, and I think that will be 185 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: a really useful feature for a lot of kiwis who 186 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: are selling goods that are with more than just a 187 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: few dollars. 188 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I saw and I saw in trade Me's 189 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: press release that they actually said that ninety percent of 190 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: the scams on the side that they couldn't help customers 191 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: with involved bank transfers. And I understand, unless you've got 192 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 2: cash on Facebook marketplace, when you're picking up a catchery 193 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,479 Speaker 2: or something, you do have to rely on bank transfers. 194 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 3: Hey, yes, that's right. 195 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,359 Speaker 1: And so I think bank transfers are really easy and convenient, 196 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: you know, and people are generally reluctant to sign up 197 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: to another payment provider, you know, like paying or whatever 198 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: else it might be. 199 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 3: But there are actually massive advantages to this. 200 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: If you if you're talking about sensible sums, if you're 201 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: buying something two dollars fifty and that money goes missing. 202 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 3: Not such a big deal. 203 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: But if you're paying for anything more than worth I 204 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: don't know, twenty thirty dollars, you know you probably want 205 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: to see that money being put to the use that 206 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: you intended it for. So I think I think having 207 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: security around this is a nice to have, and certainly 208 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: for people who've been fortunately separated from the money in 209 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: the past, this will be a key driver of their behavior. 210 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: They will never probably buy or use bankransfer again in 211 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: their life. 212 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 4: We're removing success fees for casual sellers on trade me marketplace. 213 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 4: We want trade me to be the safest, most rewarding 214 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 4: place to buy and sell an alta or, which is 215 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 4: why we'll be rolling out these changes over the next week. 216 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 4: That seven point nine percent cut we used to take 217 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 4: will soon be gone. From furniture to fashion, you sell it, 218 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 4: you keep the profit. 219 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 2: One thing I think that trade me really does, and 220 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 2: it stands out above the rest, is that it is 221 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 2: a Kiwi based company, right. I mean eBay failed in 222 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 2: the early two thousands and coming into this market because 223 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 2: it's kind of highlighted, trade me is cultural fit. 224 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: Do you think that. 225 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: They've lost a little bit of that and should they 226 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 2: push more on the Kiwi marketplace aspect of it. 227 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 3: I think there's a great comment. 228 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: And I remember, you know, Sam Morgan started the company, 229 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: and you know he did a really good job at 230 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: just encapsulating that identity because you know, he was obviously 231 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: aware that that eBay could have just come across and 232 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: they didn't because New Zealand is a small market. So 233 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: I think that's a nice to have. I think it's 234 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: a it's a good thing to have. But I think 235 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: the key reason why people use these platforms is because 236 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: there's lots of choice, it's easy to engage with the platform, 237 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: and it's easy to pay, and so I think I 238 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: think it's a feel good factor. It's it would play 239 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: a role, but I think it's one of those things. 240 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: You know, often we see this when people declare what's 241 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: important to them in a survey. They say, oh, yes, 242 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: the environment is very important on this and that and 243 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: and human rights and this and that, and then when 244 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: you look at actual purchase behaviors, often that declared sort 245 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: of pro social behavior or pro New Zealand behavior really 246 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: quickly disappears or diminishes, maybe not entirely but it diminishes 247 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: because another product that may not be ky we made 248 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: is much cheaper and then they go, oh, well, you know, 249 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: I'll go with that. So there's always this big attitude 250 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: behavior gap that we talk about in marketing. And I 251 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: think you get some mileage out of honing in on hey, 252 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: this is New Zealand on and operated, and you know 253 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: we have a blue Kiwi as a logo and so forth. 254 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: But I think it only carries you so far. So 255 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: it's super important that you're doing a fantastic job on 256 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: the muscles, not on the nicer halves. 257 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: And there is actually a real surge in popularity for 258 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 2: things like car boot sales, op shopping, thrift shopping. 259 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: Do you reckon? We're going full circle. I think some 260 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: people like this reconnection. I don't think we will see 261 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: those big online platforms disappear anytime soon. You know, it's 262 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: a very convenient way to get access to a lot 263 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: of different products, you know, some of them with some 264 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: of the use. But I think people also crave the 265 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: sense of face to face communication and connecting with people 266 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: and a sense of community, and I think that's what 267 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: these online places can only give to a very limited extent. 268 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: So I think there will always be a place for 269 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: these online and offline places where people trade things. You know, 270 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: we have farmers' markets, you know, there are there are 271 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: opportunities for people to still connect in person and you know, 272 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: to be known by name and to you know, to 273 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: to sort of become, you know, part of somebody else's narrative. 274 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: And I think those are important drivers for some consumers. 275 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: But ultimately, convenience rules the roost, and online is incredibly convenient. 276 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: It gives you so much choice. I think it's very 277 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: hard to beat that with bricks and watar and you 278 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: only need to need need You only need to ask 279 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: any New Zealand retailer about their battle and it's battle 280 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: with online basically. 281 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 2: And you mentioned the there was there's the nice to 282 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: have as the must do. So one of the must 283 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: is presuming is this taking care of the service phase? 284 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 2: What do you reckon should be next cab off the rank? 285 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: I think it's a it's having a really good competitive 286 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: analysis of saying, Okay, well, who are we competing with 287 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: at the moment and who will we be competing with 288 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: in the future. And I think the really big item 289 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: that I'm sure is on everybody's minds is AI assisted shopping. 290 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: So still AI needs to find stuff online that people 291 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: are willing to sell. So if I'm sitting some cat 292 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: tree sitting on my desk, you know, AI doesn't know 293 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: about this, so it has to be somehow be put online. 294 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: So then the question is, you know, how well are 295 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: these platforms set up for allowing AI to harvest the 296 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: data and to make purchase decisions on behalf of or 297 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: even just putting a short list together on behalf you 298 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: or me if you're looking for a cat traid. 299 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 3: So it's you. 300 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: Know, technology has been relatively stable for a long time, 301 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: but AI is said to be or has already been 302 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: a major disruption for many industries. So I think looking 303 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: forward to that, I think is really really critical because 304 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: if your platform is not AI integrated, and let's say 305 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: five years time, twenty five percent of people buy things 306 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: through AISS the shopping, well, you're just not there basically. 307 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: So I think that's a that's a medium term, super 308 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: important thing. The other thing is I don't have I 309 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: don't have the insights on this, but I think the 310 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: most obvious thing I would do as a market researcher 311 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: would be to say what happens to users or why 312 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: do users defect? Why do they not continue using the platform. 313 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 3: And you know, any company. 314 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: That's worth its salt would do a really good accident 315 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: interview in that sense, and just you know, every quarter 316 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: or so talk to these people and say, what are 317 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: the big things why people are dropping off? Some things 318 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: and won't be able to do anything about, you know, 319 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: change in lifestyle, change, moving countries, whatever it might be, 320 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: but other things that will certainly be able to do 321 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: something about. 322 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 3: So I think an. 323 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: Analysis of what are the reasons why people are leaving 324 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: us or using us less frequently as super important. 325 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Phodo my pleasure. That's it for 326 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: this episode of the Front Page. You can read more 327 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzidherld dot 328 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 2: co dot nz. The Front Page is hosted and produced 329 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 2: by me Chelsea Daniels. Caine Dickie is our studio operator, 330 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: Richard Martin, our producer and editor, and our executive producer 331 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 2: is Jane Ye. Follow the Front Page on the iHeart 332 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 2: app or wherever you get your podcasts, and join us 333 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 2: next time for another look beyond the headlines.