1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: So let's talk about converting farmland into forestry. The government 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,119 Speaker 1: has brought in new rules to stop so much farmland 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: being converted into that forestry land. It's now going to 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: be more difficult to get exotic forest planted on the 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: most productive land, going to become difficult to get it 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: into the emissions trading scheme. So Tom McClay is balancing 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: two of his ministerial hats on his head at once 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: for this announcement, and the Minister of Agriculture and also 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: the Minister of Forestry jointing. Now, hello, Minister Andrew, good afternoon. 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: What are you actually changing? How have you done this? 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, well this is something we campaigned on, it was 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 2: policy before the election when we're in opposition, and we've 13 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,319 Speaker 2: just taken the year to make sure we can get 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 2: the detail right. 15 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 3: So there's no unintended consequences. 16 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: What we're saying is for our most productive food producing 17 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 2: land that has a classification sort of a one through five, 18 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: think of dairy and horticulture land, things like that, we're 19 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 2: putting a moratorium in place so there can be no 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: full farm to forest conversion, but we are allowing farmers 21 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: to convert up to twenty five percent of their own 22 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 2: land to go into the missions trading scheme should they wish, 23 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: because you know there is a role for that, particularly 24 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: in you know, areas that they think should have trees 25 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: rather than perhaps be farming on Luck six land, which 26 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: is some of the quite hilly sheep type land, where 27 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: we're putting in place a quota or a cap of 28 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: fifteen thousand hectares per year which can be converted outside 29 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: of that any other types of land, a land that's 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 2: not actively farmed, there will be no change to the rules. 31 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: And we're also looking at any land that has a 32 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: treaty obligation on its Maori multiple owned land would be 33 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: Aside from. 34 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: That, does this classification do these categories already exist or 35 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: are you going to have to do a survey of 36 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: New Zealand land to classify it all and say that's good, 37 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: that's really good, that's rubbish. 38 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: No, it already exists and it is already used by council, 39 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: so it does exist. But one of the things we're 40 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: also saying is that we're a landowner, a farm thinks 41 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: that the classification that a council has may not be correct. 42 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 2: They can ask for a pretty reassessed at a farm level. 43 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 2: We're also being very clear that we're not taking away 44 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: the ability for people to do things where they've already 45 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: made a decision. 46 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 3: So any decision that somebody. 47 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: Has to have invested where they have already or can 48 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: demonstrate an intention to be able to, you know, to 49 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: want to go and plant trees up to today, they're 50 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 2: able to continue to but you know, the decision will 51 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: take effect from today onwards once a law comes into place. 52 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: Well, it's their land, it's their choice, isn't it. There 53 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: is a freedom of doing what you want with your 54 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: own property. 55 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's exactly right. 56 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: But what we are finding is that because of the 57 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: emission trading scheme and an expectation of that the carbon 58 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: price will go up over time, that investors are looking 59 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: to do things with land they wouldn't otherwise. But I 60 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: do agree with you. If a landowner wants to plant 61 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: trees on their farm and not going to the Mission's 62 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: trading scheme, anouncement today will have no effect upon that 63 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: they're able to do so. 64 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: So this moratorium on certain bands for ETS credits and 65 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: all that, how much how much would it decrease the 66 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: amount of forestation of productive land. 67 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: Well, there are estimates from beef and lamb and others 68 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: that over the last six to seven years about two 69 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand hectares of land forests farmland has 70 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: been converted into trees for the emissions trading scheme. A 71 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: lot of that is the luck six land are less 72 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: four one through five. Although I've just been with the 73 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: Prime ministers down in Southland where some dairy farms have 74 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: been purchased to be converted, and that's because the people 75 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: pershing that believes I'll make more money out of those 76 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: carbon credits and they will milking cows. And so what 77 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: we have seen over the last three or four years 78 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: or towards the end of the Labor government, a very fast, 79 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: deep escalation of purchasers of farmland to go into trees. 80 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: So this will slow that down. That doesn't stop it, 81 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: that slows it down. 82 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: There is a very important role for pine trees and 83 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: other types of trees to play, not only in the 84 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: economy but also to meet our carbon reduction obligations. We 85 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: just want to get that balance right and some rule 86 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 2: so you know, the highly productive land that produces the 87 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: food and the export doesn't get taken away to the 88 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: grid has. 89 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: Been and we'll see it as well. But you know, 90 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: at the same time, do you honestly believe that the 91 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: planting of trees is actively decreasing climate change? 92 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: Well, it's a quest as carbon is the point and 93 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 2: we have an obligation internationally to reduce. 94 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 3: The question, do you believe it? 95 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: Do you believe it works? 96 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 3: Well? Because well the answer is yes. The answer is yes, 97 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: I do. 98 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: Because if you get to a net zero situation where 99 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 2: the amount you're emitting, the carbon you're emitting is sequested elsewhere, 100 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: then actually you can stop warning. We'll have a bit 101 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: more to talk about that over the next few days 102 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: and some other areas where we have policy we're developing 103 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 2: where we want to part with Provo sixs to plant 104 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 2: trees on crown land that has very low conservation of 105 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: farming value. 106 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 3: But the answer is yes. 107 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: It is shown around the world that actually you can 108 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: applant trees to sup quest of carbon that mitigates where 109 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 2: you may be emitting carbon somewhere else in the economy. 110 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: Very good, and we need to remember that there's an 111 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: awful lot of unproductive land in New Zealand. There's only 112 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: a very small amount that is actually the Primo land 113 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: and so we do have upside on there. I know 114 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: you've also announced our new methane admissions targets. What are 115 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: they and how are we going to meet? 116 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 3: Well, no, we haven't announced the targets. 117 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: What we committed for the election was an independent scientific 118 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 2: review of a biogenic methane and methane from animals against 119 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 2: additional warming. We set up an independent panel of experts 120 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 2: from New Zealand and around the world to give government advice. 121 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: We've published that advice today. The Climate Change Commission also 122 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: is about to publish some advice as well. 123 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: We're going to take some time to. 124 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: Consider both of these pieces of advice and during the 125 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: course of next year we'll come up with a target 126 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: for agriculture. Currently in legislation, agriculture has to reduce submissions 127 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: methane emissions by twenty four to forty seven percent by 128 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 2: twenty fifty. What the independent to review has said so 129 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: that there would be no additional warming and to meet 130 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: our international obligations, a reduction of twenty four percent by 131 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 2: twenty fifty would be required. But we're going to take 132 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 2: some time to consider that. Before the Climate Change Minister 133 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 2: has the legislative responsibility and Cabinet will make a decision 134 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: on exactly what the target for agriculture should be. 135 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: Well, a very comprehensive answer of a very complicated business 136 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: and I thank you so much, Tom McLay, Minister of 137 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: lots of stuff that I thank you very. 138 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: Much for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live 139 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or 140 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.